Posted by: Anonymous Coward
on February 21, 2004 09:29 AM
1) if you don't like GUI, what is it that makes RH better in your mind then Debian?
chkconfig setup rpm redhat smokes debian so much on system initialization it's not even funny.
what's this start-stop-daemon bullshit give me the<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/etc/init.d/functions in redhat.
Debian's rc-update.d is absolutely cludgy compared to chkconfig (and debian users view this with some wacko superiority complex!) One example, every server package that I install was set to start and stop at 20 in the system init. That means that debian has no knowledge of what should start before what. A process named bind9 starting at S20 in<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/etc/rc2.d/ before a firewall called at S20 is just F****ed up. Of course if you know what you're doing you can fix it. I'd rather do something like the following with redhat to find out what servers initialize at a specific level chkconfig --list | grep on.
Debian confusingly has defaults that expect you to know what you're doing, and then during the setup expects you know nothing. It should be consistent. I couldn't stand getting sendmail to work with debian, it was so cludged... That too is probably a deinstall waiting to purge.
Let me be fair and say that I have purchased RedHat ES3, and I'm not all that impressed by the cost versus what is offered. In fact my servers in my place of employ are becoming debian, but I'm bemoaning that because debian is deficient in so many ways, but still better than some other alternatives.
let me point out the deficiencies of apt-get, dpkg. I initially installed apache through apt-get and was mortified to find out it didn't support apxs, so I installed it on my own. when doing the "magical" apt-get dist-upgrade, all of a sudden debian is trying to upgrade apache. Hmm, I uninstalled the debian apache, but no apparently I hadn't. dpkg was listing apache as deinstalled? Wow isn't that helpful, I need to upgrade deinstalled software. So I do a dpkg --purge apache. Guess what I lost all of the work that I put into it due to a symlink. How do you display when a package was installed with apt-get dpkg? Wow with redhat I can rpm -qa --last | more. How do you verify checksums? Not sure, with redhat rpm -Va | grep "^..5"
I like to say that debian is great if you have a lot of time on your hands, to say nothing about gentoo, which demands even more time than debian.
I like redhat kickstart, provisioning a server in half an hour to production ready. Sensible defaults, doesn't treat you like a retarded admin. Does what it needs to and knows that when you need to grow out of the defaults you can do that the way it was meant to be, by changing the config.
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Re:broaden your horizons my friends
Posted by: Anonymous Coward on February 21, 2004 09:29 AMchkconfig
setup
rpm
redhat smokes debian so much on system initialization it's not even funny.
what's this start-stop-daemon bullshit give me the<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/etc/init.d/functions in redhat.
Debian's rc-update.d is absolutely cludgy compared to chkconfig (and debian users view this with some wacko superiority complex!) One example, every server package that I install was set to start and stop at 20 in the system init. That means that debian has no knowledge of what should start before what. A process named bind9 starting at S20 in<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/etc/rc2.d/ before a firewall called at S20 is just F****ed up. Of course if you know what you're doing you can fix it. I'd rather do something like the following with redhat to find out what servers initialize at a specific level
chkconfig --list | grep on.
Debian confusingly has defaults that expect you to know what you're doing, and then during the setup expects you know nothing. It should be consistent. I couldn't stand getting sendmail to work with debian, it was so cludged... That too is probably a deinstall waiting to purge.
Let me be fair and say that I have purchased RedHat ES3, and I'm not all that impressed by the cost versus what is offered. In fact my servers in my place of employ are becoming debian, but I'm bemoaning that because debian is deficient in so many ways, but still better than some other alternatives.
let me point out the deficiencies of apt-get, dpkg. I initially installed apache through apt-get and was mortified to find out it didn't support apxs, so I installed it on my own. when doing the "magical" apt-get dist-upgrade, all of a sudden debian is trying to upgrade apache. Hmm, I uninstalled the debian apache, but no apparently I hadn't. dpkg was listing apache as deinstalled? Wow isn't that helpful, I need to upgrade deinstalled software. So I do a dpkg --purge apache. Guess what I lost all of the work that I put into it due to a symlink. How do you display when a package was installed with apt-get dpkg? Wow with redhat I can rpm -qa --last | more. How do you verify checksums? Not sure, with redhat rpm -Va | grep "^..5"
I like to say that debian is great if you have a lot of time on your hands, to say nothing about gentoo, which demands even more time than debian.
I like redhat kickstart, provisioning a server in half an hour to production ready. Sensible defaults, doesn't treat you like a retarded admin. Does what it needs to and knows that when you need to grow out of the defaults you can do that the way it was meant to be, by changing the config.
My bitter<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.02
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