Posted by: Anonymous Coward
on October 13, 2005 01:28 PM
You are correct that not all are created equal. The packaging is as important a part as anything else.
A recommendation: try out something based on debian (you keep mentioning rpm).
Also, there ARE applications that are self-enclosed. An example is Firefox. Openoffice.org is another. These groups don't take chances and deliver everything in a separate directory.
For the near future, I would suggest that rather than fret about LSB compliance, that if you (or anyone else) want to sample Linux, you grab any of the more popular distros and start to become acquainted with all of the apps available that you can download automatically if they aren't already on your hard drive (I am thinking a debian based distro or something like Suse's newest which comes with a handful gigabytes of stuff). Don't throw Windows away though, but you may find that you have access to a lot more than you realized.
Say you get something that uses "apt-get" to update (.deb's.. so Suse's distro mentioned earlier won't do because they use<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.rpm). Then say you hear about something interesting while you are surfing or chatting online. Type on a command terminal: "apt-cache search SOMETHINGINTERESTING [enter]" and see what you find. Chances are that you can get it automatically. How? "apt-get install PACKAGENAME". PACKAGENAME comes from the list that will appear after you do "apt-cache search SOMETHINGINTERESTING". SOMETHINGINTERESTING is like the keywords you type when doing a google search and PACKAGENAME is the actual proper name that you get back (like the google results that have ht tp://<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...).
You can then also do "apt-cache show PACKAGENAME" to get a description of the package, though if it is something you came accross on the Internet, you probably already have a clue about what it does.
Do not worry about dependencies with apt-get. It will list any you are missing and offer to download them. [Debian mainteners are good packagers]
Here is an example of the above instructions: "apt-cache search people". On my system this yielded too many results (I guess "people" is a common word). For example, near the end of the list I see "starfighter - 2D scrolling shooter game". Let me now do "apt-cache show starfighter". This is what I get:
OK, so I am curious, let me type "apt-get install starfighter"<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.. oops. I was so caught up writing I forgot to mention. You have to be the root (admin) user to install things. OK, well I won't tell you how to do that because it depends on your system. Perhaps something like "su root" followed by some password will put you in the proper state. If so then retype the above. This is what I got:
Reading Package Lists... Done Building Dependency Tree... Done The following extra packages will be installed:
starfighter-data The following NEW packages will be installed:
starfighter starfighter-data 0 upgraded, 2 newly installed, 0 to remove and 513 not upgraded. Need to get 2539kB of archives. After unpacking 4403kB of additional disk space will be used. Do you want to continue? [Y/n]
I typed in "y[enter]" and the download started. Well, this game may stink so I'll leave it at that....
Later, you can do "apt-get update" to have apt check out the server and figure out all the things that could use updating on your system. Then go back to "apt-cache search X" and "apt-get install Y" like before except that this time you will get newer results.. The way it works is that "apt-cache search X" relies on a list that is on the local computer to do the searching against (so you can run this without being online). apt-get/cache/etc never modifies that list unless you tell it to with the enchantment "apt-get update". Then it does go on the Internet and modifies the local info it has. If you never do "apt-get update", the local info will start to grow stale... Also, instead of going online to fetch stuff, it is possible that the distro came in a CD and instead goes to the CD to get stuff. If this is so then you should ask for help from someone that knows (or be prepared to do a lot of reading and/or searching online) so that you can get access to the online stuff because naturally unlike the CD it gets updated continuously. I haven't dealt with this (I bought a low-end computer $200 from Walmart online and it came with Xandros 3.0. here, apt-get is set up to automatically go to Xandros' site.. eventually, I'll probably move it over to debian's sites and see what happens).
If you have bandwidth to spare or time on your hands, after "apt-get update" do "apt-get upgrade". This upgrades the whole system in one shot. I don't do this because if something does go wrong, I want to be able to have a chance of figuring it out. Actually, it should be safe and the system is never in an inconsistent state (well, if power doesn't go out though even then there may be hope) because apt-get downloads everything first, then verifies it for integrity, and only then does it install it. If the connection drops ever, just try again. apt-get keeps partial downloads on disk.
I here that "synaptic" makes the above command line typing unnecessary so you can try that. gee.. just checked and I have the option to download that too. I'll see, maybe later.
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Posted by: Anonymous Coward on October 13, 2005 01:28 PMA recommendation: try out something based on debian (you keep mentioning rpm).
Also, there ARE applications that are self-enclosed. An example is Firefox. Openoffice.org is another. These groups don't take chances and deliver everything in a separate directory.
For the near future, I would suggest that rather than fret about LSB compliance, that if you (or anyone else) want to sample Linux, you grab any of the more popular distros and start to become acquainted with all of the apps available that you can download automatically if they aren't already on your hard drive (I am thinking a debian based distro or something like Suse's newest which comes with a handful gigabytes of stuff). Don't throw Windows away though, but you may find that you have access to a lot more than you realized.
Say you get something that uses "apt-get" to update (.deb's.. so Suse's distro mentioned earlier won't do because they use<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.rpm). Then say you hear about something interesting while you are surfing or chatting online. Type on a command terminal: "apt-cache search SOMETHINGINTERESTING [enter]" and see what you find. Chances are that you can get it automatically. How? "apt-get install PACKAGENAME". PACKAGENAME comes from the list that will appear after you do "apt-cache search SOMETHINGINTERESTING". SOMETHINGINTERESTING is like the keywords you type when doing a google search and PACKAGENAME is the actual proper name that you get back (like the google results that have ht tp://<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...).
You can then also do "apt-cache show PACKAGENAME" to get a description of the package, though if it is something you came accross on the Internet, you probably already have a clue about what it does.
Do not worry about dependencies with apt-get. It will list any you are missing and offer to download them. [Debian mainteners are good packagers]
Here is an example of the above instructions: "apt-cache search people". On my system this yielded too many results (I guess "people" is a common word). For example, near the end of the list I see "starfighter - 2D scrolling shooter game". Let me now do "apt-cache show starfighter". This is what I get:
Package: starfighter
Version: 1.1-3
Priority: optional
Section: games
Maintainer: Bartosz Fenski
Depends: libc6 (>= 2.3.2.ds1-4), libgcc1 (>= 1:3.4.1-3), libsdl-image1.2 (>= 1.2.3), libsdl-mixer1.2 (>= 1.2.6), libsdl1.2debian (>> 1.2.7+1.2.8), libstdc++5 (>= 1:3.3.4-1), starfighter-data (= 1.1-3)
Architecture: i386
Filename: pool/main/s/starfighter/starfighter_1.1-3_i386.de<nobr>b<wbr></nobr>
Size: 148466
Installed-Size: 424
MD5sum: 1ae2774c3e9a0d1b72bcb32a75eaa84f
Description: 2D scrolling shooter game
After decades of war one company, who had gained powerful supplying both
sides with weaponary, steps forwards and crushes both warring factions
in one swift movement. Using far superior weaponary and AI craft, the
company was completely unstoppable and now no one can stand in their
way. Thousands began to perish under the iron fist of the company. The
people cried out for a saviour, for someone to light this dark hour...
and someone did.
.
Features of the game:
.
o 26 missions over 4 star systems
o Primary and Secondary Weapons (including a laser cannon and a charge weapon)
o A weapon powerup system
o Wingmates
o Missions with Primary and Secondary Objectives
o A Variety of Missions (Protect, Destroy, etc)
o 13 different music tracks
o Boss battles
.
Homepage: <a href="http://www.parallelrealities.co.uk/starfighter.php" title="parallelrealities.co.uk">http://www.parallelrealities.co.uk/starfighter.ph<nobr>p<wbr></nobr> </a parallelrealities.co.uk>
OK, so I am curious, let me type "apt-get install starfighter"<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.. oops. I was so caught up writing I forgot to mention. You have to be the root (admin) user to install things. OK, well I won't tell you how to do that because it depends on your system. Perhaps something like "su root" followed by some password will put you in the proper state. If so then retype the above. This is what I got:
Reading Package Lists... Done
Building Dependency Tree... Done
The following extra packages will be installed:
starfighter-data
The following NEW packages will be installed:
starfighter starfighter-data
0 upgraded, 2 newly installed, 0 to remove and 513 not upgraded.
Need to get 2539kB of archives.
After unpacking 4403kB of additional disk space will be used.
Do you want to continue? [Y/n]
I typed in "y[enter]" and the download started. Well, this game may stink so I'll leave it at that....
Later, you can do "apt-get update" to have apt check out the server and figure out all the things that could use updating on your system. Then go back to "apt-cache search X" and "apt-get install Y" like before except that this time you will get newer results.. The way it works is that "apt-cache search X" relies on a list that is on the local computer to do the searching against (so you can run this without being online). apt-get/cache/etc never modifies that list unless you tell it to with the enchantment "apt-get update". Then it does go on the Internet and modifies the local info it has. If you never do "apt-get update", the local info will start to grow stale... Also, instead of going online to fetch stuff, it is possible that the distro came in a CD and instead goes to the CD to get stuff. If this is so then you should ask for help from someone that knows (or be prepared to do a lot of reading and/or searching online) so that you can get access to the online stuff because naturally unlike the CD it gets updated continuously. I haven't dealt with this (I bought a low-end computer $200 from Walmart online and it came with Xandros 3.0. here, apt-get is set up to automatically go to Xandros' site.. eventually, I'll probably move it over to debian's sites and see what happens).
If you have bandwidth to spare or time on your hands, after "apt-get update" do "apt-get upgrade". This upgrades the whole system in one shot. I don't do this because if something does go wrong, I want to be able to have a chance of figuring it out. Actually, it should be safe and the system is never in an inconsistent state (well, if power doesn't go out though even then there may be hope) because apt-get downloads everything first, then verifies it for integrity, and only then does it install it. If the connection drops ever, just try again. apt-get keeps partial downloads on disk.
I here that "synaptic" makes the above command line typing unnecessary so you can try that. gee.. just checked and I have the option to download that too. I'll see, maybe later.
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