Posted by: Anonymous Coward
on March 10, 2007 09:09 PM
Come on Joe. I realize that an unfavorable article or statement about FOSS gets your idealistic panties in a wad but, your argument and your examples are terrible. You are also just as guilty of cherry picking the good projects while ignoring the many warts. It's different when you look at the big picture, warts and all.
Re: Myth #1
The "free as in speech, not as in beer" mantra that you quoted has to the most ridiculous mantra there is. You have to explain its meaning to everyone that hasn't heard it before because it isn't clear. Leading off your argument with this ambiguity is the beginning of your failure.
Yes, it is true that you can get reliable FOSS software off the net for free. But, we all know that there is still a cost incurred, even with Apache. The time and effort used to get the software working properly is expensive. Apache may be a shining example of the good in FOSS but, you know as well as I that there are many more abominations than there are Apaches. Even tools that are near perfect, but follow the Unix philosophy of many small job specific tools that get chained together to accomplish a task incur a time/labor cost. A good example of this is the Postfix/Amavis/SpamAssassin/ClamAV SMTP spam gateway. It is a great tool that works swimmingly, but it takes hours/days to setup and tune. Off the shelf proprietary software solutions that serve a similar role take only an hour or two to setup and configure in a similar fashion and they also have nice management interfaces and extensive reporting capabilities that the FOSS solution doesn't have.
No corporate IT, FOSS or proprietary is fee of labor costs.
Re: Myth #2
Again this is a two way street. While it is true that Apache and Firefox pump out patches daily, if needed, there are many other projects that don;t get this kind of response.
The kernel is a good example of this. Surely, even Joe has had a kernel update bork something important like say a SATA controller, and no resolution is made available for weeks/months. I remember a problem with the <a href="http://groups.google.com/groups/search?q=kvm+mouse+kernel&qt_s=Search+Groups" title="google.com">kernel KVM switches that went unfixed for years!!!!</a google.com> Proprietary software may not be the panacea that Greene suggests but, FOSS is just as guilty if not more so. But, you refuse to acknowledge ANY flaw.
Re Myth #3
You picked the worst possible examples for this myth. Have you ever used Nagios, GroundWork, Sendmail, et al in a corporate environment. Nagios takes days/weeks/months to get working properly in a corporate nevironment. IPSwitch What's Up Gold can do all that Nagios can, and a hell of a lot more, in under an hour!!!!!!!!!!!!
Finally, there is this statement: That competition certainly divests him of an objective voice in speaking on the issue, since his bread and butter depends on besting those popular projects day in and day out, and provides him with a motive for slinging FUD as far and wide as he is able. Hello Pot? This is kettle.
Joe, you ought to look at yourself in the mirror, your objectivity is completely absent! Your "article" isn't a refutation of his, it is the tirade of an angry child. You lost credibility beginning at the title and continued to lose it throughout the article.
Greene was wrong about many things and his article was definitely self serving. But, Joe, your article is wrong about many things and if your article isn't self serving and pandering, then what is?
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We Tangle Again, Joe.
Posted by: Anonymous Coward on March 10, 2007 09:09 PMRe: Myth #1
The "free as in speech, not as in beer" mantra that you quoted has to the most ridiculous mantra there is. You have to explain its meaning to everyone that hasn't heard it before because it isn't clear. Leading off your argument with this ambiguity is the beginning of your failure.
Yes, it is true that you can get reliable FOSS software off the net for free. But, we all know that there is still a cost incurred, even with Apache. The time and effort used to get the software working properly is expensive. Apache may be a shining example of the good in FOSS but, you know as well as I that there are many more abominations than there are Apaches. Even tools that are near perfect, but follow the Unix philosophy of many small job specific tools that get chained together to accomplish a task incur a time/labor cost. A good example of this is the Postfix/Amavis/SpamAssassin/ClamAV SMTP spam gateway. It is a great tool that works swimmingly, but it takes hours/days to setup and tune. Off the shelf proprietary software solutions that serve a similar role take only an hour or two to setup and configure in a similar fashion and they also have nice management interfaces and extensive reporting capabilities that the FOSS solution doesn't have.
No corporate IT, FOSS or proprietary is fee of labor costs.
Re: Myth #2
Again this is a two way street. While it is true that Apache and Firefox pump out patches daily, if needed, there are many other projects that don;t get this kind of response.
The kernel is a good example of this. Surely, even Joe has had a kernel update bork something important like say a SATA controller, and no resolution is made available for weeks/months. I remember a problem with the <a href="http://groups.google.com/groups/search?q=kvm+mouse+kernel&qt_s=Search+Groups" title="google.com">kernel KVM switches that went unfixed for years!!!!</a google.com> Proprietary software may not be the panacea that Greene suggests but, FOSS is just as guilty if not more so. But, you refuse to acknowledge ANY flaw.
Re Myth #3
You picked the worst possible examples for this myth. Have you ever used Nagios, GroundWork, Sendmail, et al in a corporate environment. Nagios takes days/weeks/months to get working properly in a corporate nevironment. IPSwitch What's Up Gold can do all that Nagios can, and a hell of a lot more, in under an hour!!!!!!!!!!!!
Finally, there is this statement:
That competition certainly divests him of an objective voice in speaking on the issue, since his bread and butter depends on besting those popular projects day in and day out, and provides him with a motive for slinging FUD as far and wide as he is able. Hello Pot? This is kettle.
Joe, you ought to look at yourself in the mirror, your objectivity is completely absent! Your "article" isn't a refutation of his, it is the tirade of an angry child. You lost credibility beginning at the title and continued to lose it throughout the article.
Greene was wrong about many things and his article was definitely self serving. But, Joe, your article is wrong about many things and if your article isn't self serving and pandering, then what is?
Best regards.
Your favorite "Microsoft Shill".
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