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SuSE 8.0 Professional improves on an already good Linux distribution
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CommentsI've been using Linux since late 1999. My first distribution was Macmillan Linux Mandrake 6.5. Though I hit some bumps along the road, I got my system up and running, and from that point, I've never looked back. Later, dissatisfaction with Mandrake caused me to look around for another distribution, and a good friend of mine from the Suncoast Linux Users Group suggested I try SuSE (at that time, version 6.4).
SuSE's latest offering is its 8.0 Linux distribution. The company was successful with its 7.x series, so I was curious to see if the 8.x series could improve much on what was already available. Currently, SuSE 8.0 is only available for the x86 family of processors, though SuSE also supports PowerPC, Sparc, and Alpha processors, and will probably release updated versions in the near future.
I tested SuSE 8.0 Professional on a couple of my home systems. The specs:
| Model: | Tower I built myself | Dell Inspiron 8000 Laptop |
| Processor: | PIII 450 | PIII 650 |
| RAM: | 128MB | 192MB |
| Monitor: | KDS AV-195T | Generic LCD, 1400x1050@75hz |
| Hard Disks: | 40GB+10GB | 10GB |
| Video Card: | ATI All-In-Wonder 128 8MB | ATI Rage 128 Mobility MF |
| Sound Card: | SoundBlaster PCI 16 | ES 1983S Maestro 3i |
| Network Card: | Realtek RT8029(AS) | 3Com Hurricane NIC/Modem combo |
| Modem: | Generic WinModem | 3Com Hurricane NIC/Modem combo |
| CD: | Creative Blaster CD 52x | TEAC CD-ROM CD-224E (standard) |
| Printer: | HP 832 C | None |
Although these machines are modest by today's standards, they exceed SuSE's listed minimum requirements: 486 DX, 64MB RAM, and a 400MB hard drive space--though you'll need at least 6GB of free space in order to install everything. The basic system with office installation will run you about 1.5GB.
With the SuSE Linux 8.0 Professional boxed set, you get the following:
- Seven CDs with more than 2,300 applications in RPM format, plus one DVD with everything, for drop 'n' run convenience.
- Three manuals: applications manual, Linux basics manual, and a complete reference manual.
- 90-day installation support by phone, fax, and email.
- Software from IBM, Borland, Sun, Netscape, Real, Opera, and many more companies.
Installation
SuSE is known for having a straightforward installation process. Nevertheless, with Linux distributions getting easier and easier to install, the guys up at SuSE headquarters decided it was time to revamp this part of their distribution. The new version of SuSE offers a three-click approach to installing the operating system. Of course, you still have all the configurability of the previous versions, which is good for power users who like a lean system and for people who, like me, want to install almost everything -- just in case they might someday need it.
Installation went smoothly on both the tower and laptop. Both were clean installs; I simply placed my CD in the drive and let it do its thing. Upon boot-up, the first thing I noticed was how much cleaner the install screen looked.
With this new, three-section install approach, I simply
had to answer what language I'd be working in, and hardware detection began
doing its magic. Within a minute, my hardware was pretty much configured
and the system ready to install. SuSE detected all my hardware, save
the WinModem in the tower and the built-in 3Com modem on the laptop (this
was no surprise). It also, surprisingly, had problems setting up 3D for my
video card. Aside from that, the install did some interesting things,
like set my printer up with multiple settings for different needs, everything
from 300dpi black and white to photo-realistic.
For things I needed or wanted to configure by hand, such as the network settings and package selection, there was a list, with hyperlinks I could click to take me to that area of the installation. I was also pleased to find that SuSE automatically set up previously defined partitions. Generally, I make it a rule to set up a separate /home partition, but SuSE's scheme of /boot, swap and one big / (root) works well for the average user who, unlike myself, won't be formatting his hard drive every two weeks.
After all the software installed (which, with seven CDs can be quite tedious), setup was a matter of creating a user and putting in a password. I have to admit, my installation time on the tower was a bit on the long end, but when you install 5GB-plus of software it's hard not to expect that. The setup on my laptop is more modest, only about 2.3GB, which took just over 30 minutes to install.
The default office setup will install KDE3, StarOffice 5.2 and the most commonly used applications. The space requirement is just under 2GB, but includes more than the average user will need. Surprisingly, Opera is not installed by default no matter what the configuration, though it's becoming a dominant force in the Linux Web browser space. If you're an experienced Linux user, some trimming down is recommended, unless you don't mind dealing with a cluttered set of menus. If you're using Linux for the first time, this setup will do fine. Later configuration with SuSE's YaST2 setup tool is just as easy as the installation process, making the administration of your system a matter of point-and-clickability.
The emphasis on one-step hardware detection and configuration, as well as the revamping of the installation process, make the entire installation process intuitive. So easy that SuSE decided to omit the colorful installation guide that accompanied its 7.x series. To put it bluntly, anyone with a forehead should find this easy to install. If you want more information, however, you can find it in the second chapter of the reference manual.
Another interesting omission in this release: no boot modules floppies. With most people using computers that can boot from CD, SuSE decided it wasn't necessary to include the floppy disks. If you need to create a boot floppy you can find the information in the third chapter of the reference manual.
Living with the lizard
By default, SuSE drops a user into the new KDE3 desktop. In fact, in the default installation, it's the only desktop environment installed. As soon as you log in for the first time, a screen reading, "Welcome to SuSE," comes up with a number of links to a system tour, SuSE's home page, installation support page, and its support and hardware databases. The tour is a fairly complete overview of what the system offers, covering a number of the available programs in graphics, games, sound, system tools, desktops, documentation online and off-line, scientific applications, office applications, file management, and development tools. One thing I can't understand is why the icons are so thrown about in the default setup.
I prefer GNOME. It's not the default
interface used by SuSE, so it's not as integrated as KDE, but I do enjoy
looking at it more than any other interface (even though KDE3 looks
quite nice). The default setup for the GNOME desktop is pleasing to the
eye and comes with a range of software offerings, including Evolution,
Galeon, AbiWord, GnuCash and more. According to a colleague of mine, Jeff
Skube, installing the Liquid KDE style engine from mosfet.org will give KDE all the eye candy you'll ever need. Of course,
you can still choose from the plethora of other window managers and desktop
environments, so regardless of whether you look for functionality or design,
you're sure to be pleased.
Tech Support
Though the installations were smooth, the laptop ran into one major problem after installation. Whenever the laptop is brought back from sleep mode, the LCD's refresh rates go out of whack and begin to burn up the screen. This same laptop had worked with SuSE 7.2 without this problem, as well as with Red Hat 7.1 and 7.2. This was a good time for me to try out tech support.
I didn't have to wait very long for an answer. After describing my problem to the tech support person, we tried one solution with YaST2's graphics card and monitor module. That didn't work, and there really wasn't much he could do, I guess. He pointed me to Linux on Laptops and began ranting about not being able to support all the hardware out there.
This really isn't that big of an issue with me because I use my laptop as a desktop system primarily. However, I'd rather not be on an airplane and fall asleep, only to find that I just lost my laptop due to a faulty X configuration.
Though it was enjoyable to talk to the guy, the tech support was a bit lackluster, not so much because they didn't know the answer to my problem, but rather because of what seemed to be a dependency on YaST. Tech support presses the issue of "the information is out there, go use it," and that's not all bad. But I was left wondering what SuSE 7.2 and Red Hat have that SuSE 8.0 (and 7.3, for that matter) doesn't.
What I like, what I don't
If you've been around the Linux scene for a bit, you'll know that SuSE's big claim to fame, other than the lizard, is YaST (Yet another Setup Tool). It handles pretty much all administration in SuSE. The tool has been developing steadily since the early days of SuSE, and with 8.0 the improvement continues. Saying a final goodbye to the old YaST, YaST2 has taken over and become both the graphical and text-based setup tool for the system (it had been YaST for text and YaST2 for graphics since SuSE 6.3). Again, I have to say it: Anyone with a forehead should find YaST2 easy to use.
Though I found bugs in YaST, I can't say enough about how easy it has been to administer my system. A good example was my experience with setting up NFS, using YaST2's NFS server and client modules. I wanted to set up a shared drive on my tower and to be able to access it through my laptop. With YaST2, I was able to set up both the server and the client in about three minutes, including the time that it took YaST2 to come up. Considering my knowledge of NFS before this was zilch, I'd say this was a good result. Similarly, setting up my firewall was simple, allowing me to configure the firewall for whatever services I needed with a couple of mouse clicks. As with previous versions, installing software updates and security patches via SuSE YOU (YaST Online Update) was as easy as clicking "next."
Another of SuSE's claims to fame has always been its excellent documentation. No distribution includes such complete and well written documentation, and this time it's no different. However, unlike past versions, 8.0 only comes with three manuals, a departure form the tradition set of five manuals in the 7.x series. Most of these have been consolidated into the reference manual, a 460 page behemoth with everything you'll ever need to know about your SuSE system. As usual, the writing is clear and simple, suitable for any level reader.
Though this isn't a criticism on the distribution, the omission of the customary SuSE stickers was disappointing. I realize cost-cutting measures are in order due to the current economic situation, but the stickers were like the ever addicting bubble wrap: unadulterated fun. I couldn't begin to tell you how many stickers I have on my boxes, all thanks to this long standing Linux-distribution tradition.
On a serious note, I had one more item of concern. Linux has long been viewed as being in the domain of geeks. Part of the reason for this has been because of the lack of easy program installation. I'm perplexed that SuSE hasn't picked up on this a bit more. Currently, if you wish to add any software that's not in the disk, you have two options: one is to go through YaST2. This one's a pain in the neck, and to be honest, I've never been able to get it to work. When I point to a directory within the system, it just complains that it can't mount the medium.
The better choice is to install it by hand using either command line or a GUI tool such as gnorpm. Yet, would it be that hard to create a script to automate installation of RPM files with YaST2? When you click on an RPM file, it should launch a root verification program, then launch a software install module within YaST2. I realize this is easier said than done, but the tools are there. Heck, it can even be done with TGZ files, can't it? After all, "./configure," "make," and "make install" are the steps required by about 95% of all tar archives.
Conclusion
SuSE has once again raised the bar for Linux distributions, releasing what might be its best version ever. Whether you've never installed Linux before or you're an experienced Linux user, you'll find SuSE enjoyable to use. A newbie may feel a bit overwhelmed by all the choices, and for that reason, I recommend they try out the Personal edition. For professionals, and those in need of a versatile system, SuSE Linux 8.0 Professional is definitely the way to go, and at $79.95 (USD), you're not going to find a better bang for your buck.
The system has a few bugs, common with new version number releases, which will most likely be resolved in the next release. None of these, however, are big enough to cause any measurable interference under most environments. Overall, SuSE 8.0 should stay on my box for the foreseeable future. SuSE's got a real winner on its hands with this release.
Comments
on SuSE 8.0 Professional improves on an already good Linux distributionNote: Comments are owned by the poster. We are not responsible for their content.
<A HREF="http://linux01.gwdg.de/apt4rpm">http://linux01.gwdg.de/apt4rpm</a linux01.gwdg.de>. Installing kde? Just type apt-get install kde :)
The only thing left is official SuSE support...
This looks like a pretty obvious plug for Xandros.
I think (no Flame) that KDE3 is more mature, but GnomeOffice is really great. I presume that KDE will dominate the Linux desk beacuse the US market isn't that important for Linux.
Other than that you can keep k in europe right along with the kremlin.
Even Linus says the best coders are american!
there's that trailerpark psuedoitelligence again..
Posted by: Anonymous Coward on May 10, 2002 11:26 AMBut remember business doesn't care so much for slickness of interface as it does for standardization and ease of use. Most companies are still using W2000 instead of XP for that very reason.
Quite playing soccer and do your homework.
My US clients have to brought a bit more clandestinely to the Linux table, but they get their eventually. MS spreads a great deal of FUD around Linux.
As for desktops, IMHO, I frankly use the apps, not the desktops. I use KDE primarily, since I like the underlying component integration (something they had really for over a year now; Gnome's been a bit behind in that area). However, I must say the UI experience of Gnome has improved considerably. Many of the apps are far stronger, including pan, Gabber, and Evolution.
In the end, I just want to find businesses willing to make the Linux leap. It's slow, but it's working.
This American thinks you are the one with homework to do. Obviously, you failed to do it when you were in school.
It is not important. The other guy was right. You US folks are so deeply dug into Windows ... I don't mean it as an offence, but fact is that we Europeans are far more suspicious about Microsoft and their crappy OS, and this directly translates into a wider spread use of alternatives such as Linux and *BSD in the European corporate world than in the US. And also the other claim is correct: KDE is far more popular here, nobody, except the few Red Hat users here, use GNOME. I am not saying GNOME is bad or something, it just isn't as popular as KDE. Cultural difference maybe, I don't know.
- dj.
> social equivelance as the day when mercedes became more
> valuable than cadillac.
You are saying it yourself: "Once Linux making it big ..." Linux already is big here in Europe, lots and lots of companies, corporations and institutions use it. And most companies I have to do with refuse to use Windows XP out of fear of being spied on. And with the new licensing scheme, lots of companies are now defecting to Linux or other alternatives. There are companies here which have completely banned Microsoft from their server rooms and now even desktops. Same is happening in Asia by the way. Only in the USA you are still discussing "once Linux will be big ..." I assume Microsoft is too powerful in the US ? And the argument about common standards is nonsense, there are plenty of standards in Linux (POSIX, to name one), far more than in Windows. Staying with WinXP because you fear not to have enough standards is complete nonsense and not very logic - it is Microsoft that violates any possible standard (HTML, for example). If you want a lot of standards - well, that's the best reason *NOT* to stay with your Microsoft OS.
cheers.
Anthony.
Re:Least you admitted the graphics card didn't wor
Posted by: Anonymous Coward on May 10, 2002 07:26 PMAre you sure you weren't set on Letter while using A4 paper?
Well, yes and no, I found out. Here's why:
What did they do to the wireless start-up? As a consultant, I work with many different companies. With my clients, I usually get them hooked on 802.11b when I install an access point at their office (with proper encryption of course). I used to type linux SCHEME={client} at the lilo prompt, passing the environment variable in at boot. Does that work now? No.
Frankly, they messed up wireless. The network.opts file now has a YaST flag in it--I generally like YaST--that lets me configure the information for the card. But it does not call the wireless.opts to configure the card for wireless connectivity, so 1) if you have a DHCP wireless card, you are SOL (you need the wireless script to run before the network is set up, otherwise, the card cannot talk on the LAN), and 2) you must redo the iwconfig statement by hand. Yuck! That's what the wireless.opts file is for, silly! BTW--I tried turning YaST handling of my wireless card off. That turned it off completely.
And why don't they compile wireless statistics into the kernel? I want to use iwspy. True, I could compile my own, but then VMware complains each time I try to start up. And worst of all, there always seems to be a difference between the pcmcia rpm installed and the pcmcia version header file. Why? Because when I compile my 3Com driver (I use the poldhu_cs driver) it would complain about pcmcia driver versions not being the same. Arg!
When will this be fixed, SuSE?
I was very excited about kde3 and past attempts with suse were positive, so I gave it a go. To make a long story short...
I tried installing the packages I wanted with the dvd in the drive after booting with it. No go, the install script would hang. I tried using the cd in the dvd drive to do the same thing. Still hung up. Tried booting to my plextor cdrw with the cd's. Still hangin. At this point I was feeling very frustrated and sad because I really wanted it to install. I didn't want to return it for a refund for some stupid reasons like my previous mandrake times. I thought I'd give it one last shot. Instead of taking an hour and a half to browse through all the packages I wanted, I only installed the default one and just changed my time and location settings in yast2. I was estatic! It worked!!! Once I caught my breath, I started installing sections of packages. First I stared with games. Everything happened without a incident. The games worked. I continued down the list until I eventually had my tummy full of programs I planned to play with eventually. Everything worked flawlessly.
Then I tried another thing that used to fail miserably with mandrake, online updates. They worked as they should have in the first place! All updates took without any problems. Not once did I have to muck around in the command line! I feel very happy that everything worked out for me with this distro!
I will eventually teach myself how to get around sufficiently in the command line, but I wanna have fun with things first! I can't praise the people at SuSE enough with my happy reactions with thier product! I will, from now on, suggest this distro to other newbies and people that I preach to about the "other side of the fence" is REALLY greener!
Like the reviewer said, there's over 2200 programs you can use with the professional verion. I'm not bs'in you when I tell ya it took me an hour and a half to go through the wish list and pick and choose what I wanted. For $80, you get soooo many progs with it! If what they give you with the 7 cd's or the dvd don't satisfy your every needs, then you are one in a million. I can say that most people out there seriously might never need another program out there, because the kitchen sink is in the box!
May the source be with you...
Congratulations, SuSE!
The only thing I am working on: I can't mount the SuSE DVD, only CD-ROM...
I definitly could not recomend this release to a beginner.
Lbase
http://kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=48&vo te=good
I also downloaded the Crystal icon theme:
http://kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=1586
Next I added these icons to the theme to make it complete:
Crystal addons:
http://kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=1561
http://kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=1615
http://kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=1637
http://kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=1507
http://kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=1498
http://kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=1573
http://kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=1477
http://kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=1545
I downloaded more eyecandy until my eyes were watering and I have a beautiful system with top of the line software. I even have a sound scheme wich suse came with. Anyway try SUSE, you won't be dissapointed.
You can also try the SUSE LIVE EVALUATION 8.0 which will show you what it can do without ever installing!
get it from here: http://linuxiso.org/download.php/347/liveeval-8.0. iso
- - Ralf *
To install a package that is not on the CDs, it's 2 possibilities: with a rpm, it's just to open Konqueror as superuser (root), go im the directory wich the package is and clisk to the file. You get kpackage as root with the package opened in, you must verify at the box "dependancy" is checked and you click to install. That's all if you meat all the dependancies, otherwhise you must first install the other packages. It is even possible, if you have packages that depands on each other, to do a multiple selection in konqueror and prees return to open Kpackage with all the packages opened in.
With a tar.gz package, you must RTFM that means read the text files in the package and on the site
you have downloaded the package. It can be as easy as with the rpm, ./configure, make and make install. You can have to modify the make file or some other file or it can be impossible for a non programmer to do that. I have a rule for those package, i read the docs, i prove, if it is OK that's fine otherwise i do a make clean and i delelte. A make clean before begining the install process do nothing bad and can even be necessary, so i do that as a rule too.
############################################
I have tryied, it's 2 days ago to do an update from the net with a ftp server, i have downloaded first all the files from the /disk directory on the /8.0 directory (the directiry in wich is the 8.0 distribution), i have done the floppies as it's explained in the text files and start! I'm rebooting the PC with the first floppy, after the second (modules1), the install screnn come, i put "install=ftp:ftp//server name/path to the distribution 8.0. After that, it was the 4th disk (modules3 for the drivers for the network) and bingo, the download begin, maybe 28Mb (with adsl it take a few 10 minutes, i have not check).
After that, it install the package in a temporary directory somewher in /var/admin/... , a new screen come with a message like what the install will start and CRASH THE RED SCRENN OF THE DEAD!
I take a look in the other consoles and find a message like what that was a problem with depmod.
I remove the floppy and reboot the pc as usual, all was working fine but not Yast and Yast2. Both was trusting at i was with a 8.0 system, but that was a 7.2 system. Nothing to do with yast, it is not working at all, it just reponsd at my CDs with 7.2 are too old.
Well, i prove the same process twice and a few other thing like to remove my SMP kernell because the update process was saying at that was a conflict between this one and the normal kernell. At the end, xfree was not wotking at all.
I begin again the install with the 8.0 floppies and i have choose a new install (not an update). The process was the same 3 steps process as in the first post, at the end BINGO all was working fine even all my hardware. It toke a few hours to download the packages and i get a SuSE 8.0 with KOffice. Yast have installed allmost all the first CD and to get the other SuSE 8.0 softwares, it's just to choose them in the menu, they are automatiquely downloaded and installed.
I can say 3 things about the ftp download: the "new install" is THE choice to do, the process is much more robust and so easy as with the CDs.
Not all the package are installed, i get no compilator but you have the choice to install the one you will, the buggy (i have read taht one time) 3.0 or the "old" but not so old 2.9.5.
It is not possible to get such software like staroffice with the ftp, but i have installed it with my 7.2 CDs and Konqueror in superuser mode like i said above. I have installed too, OpenOffice and many other fron the menu with just one click.
What i can say like conclusion is at Linux with SuSE 8.0 is becomming much more better as windows and that even to install the softwares. And that is a big steep! I precise at that was the first time i was doing a such install from the ftp.
For the curioses, i recommand to look to http://www.linuxiso.org/ . They have ISO image of the leading distributions and links to the ftp servers for those distributions. (It is not possible to install SuSE from the ISOs, just possible to boot and run with it, it is why i have choose the ftp install)
Have fun.
Dominique
I cant agree more about package management
Posted by: Anonymous Coward on May 10, 2002 03:02 AMI am a Xandros Beta tester and they have something in the works that is basically a graphical front end to Debians apt-get, and let me tell you, IT WORKS AMAZING. my girlfriend was able to install mozilla then uninstall it later, and she even commented about how it actually uninstalled something, unlike the windows world.
I hear that mandrake has a similar program in their lastest verion, this should be a standard accross all distros
brodie
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