Learn about Linux
Download Linux
Get Linux helpSpecial Offers
Feature: Linux
Fun with Mandrake PowerPack 9.0
By on
November 18, 2002 (8:00:00 AM)
Share
Print
Comments
- By Robin 'Roblimo' Miller -
Last week a friendly delivery driver brought me a copy of Mandrake's PowerPack Edition 9.0. This is the complete boxed set, full of bells, whistles, and bangles. As others have said before me, 9.0 is the smoothest Mandrake yet. This article is more in the "tips and tricks" vein than a review, since I think Mandrake's latest has already been reviewed more than enough, more often favorably than not.
Last week a friendly delivery driver brought me a copy of Mandrake's PowerPack Edition 9.0. This is the complete boxed set, full of bells, whistles, and bangles. As others have said before me, 9.0 is the smoothest Mandrake yet. This article is more in the "tips and tricks" vein than a review, since I think Mandrake's latest has already been reviewed more than enough, more often favorably than not.
The biggest warning I have for anyone installing Mandrake 9.0 on a laptop with both a built-in network card and a PCMCIA wireless adaptor is, "Don't set up your network during the install." I tried to do this not once but three times, and all three times my laptop hung on its first post-install bootup. I looked through the manual for a way to click past that service's start and didn't find a way to bypass the hung-up part of the install routine. Finally I did an install without setting up the network, and set up the wireless network later, and everything went fine.
Users who don't have multiple network devices won't ever see this problem, and I suspect users who don't have PCMCIA -- that is, desktop computer users -- won't see it either. This was my only installation glitch. Everything else went so smoothly that it isn't worth writing about.
Software Installation
As long as you stick to Mandrake RPMs you won't have any dependency problems when you add new software, and Mandrake's software installation process has gotten so simple that almost the only thing harder than Windows about it is the need to log in as root before you begin, and that's a necessary security precaution Windows really should have built into it, too.
One quirk Mandrake has had for a long time, and has kept in 9.0, is a set of default package choices I think are just a little silly at times. Why wouldn't Flash install as a Mozilla plugin automatically? Why both OpenOffice and StarOffice instead of one or the other? Mandrake needs to put more thought into package selection. Right now the choices are overwhelming, and nearly useless for a new Linux user who doesn't know the difference between StarOffice and OpenOffice, and probably has no idea what all the image programs Mandrake includes do.
The Installation and User Guide doesn't help much in this area. I advise any new Linux user to look through it before an install -- there's enough material in it to save some potential hassles -- but if you run into a problem or want to know which IRC program to use, it isn't much good. Yes, I know, "There's much more available online." I have multiple computers now, so I can try an install on one and if I have problems I can jump on the Internet with the other and look for answers. People who only have one computer can't do this. Online help only helps if you can get online. This is not a Mandrake-specific problem, but is one I wish Mandrake would work on solving.
As far as the usability of Mandrake's software selection and installation utility, it works fine, but it takes some figuring out that shouldn't be needed. Indeed, all Mandrake setup and configuration routines are more obscure than they need to be. This doesn't bother me because I've been using Mandrake long enough to know what to do, but I can see how someone new to Mandrake would easily have trouble to the point of giving up and reinstalling Windows.
A No-Sweat Upgrade
I installed Mandrake "fresh" on one laptop, then did an upgrade on another that was running 8.2. The upgrade was flawless. All my data, including my screen settings, email, and other personalizations came through intact. I have never had such an easy upgrade experience on any operating system, not even a Mac going from 9.2 to 10.1. Naturally, I backed up all my data first, but in this case that turned out to be a "peace of mind" thing, not a life-saver, although more than once in the past -- including with Mandrake -- not backing up data before an upgrade has led me into disasters. Backing everything up is always a good habit, in any operating system. Even if all the software is lovely and stable, a hard drive can die as fast under Linux as under any other operating system.
DrakSync: A Promise Finally Kept
Draksync, which famously didn't work at all in Mandrake 8.0, is now a thing of beauty, possibly one of the Mandrake's best features. It didn't install by default for me in 9.0, but since Mandrake software installs are so easy, this was not a barrier. Once again, though, you need to get through a little quirkiness to get this going.
The big thing you need to know is that one of the machines you are synchronizing must be a server; that is, if you are using OpenSSH one of them must have the OpenSSH server package installed. I have not found this clearly explained anywhere in Mandrake documentation. I only know about this because my friend Russell Pavlicek figured it out and told me. But I know it now, so I made sure I installed OpenSSH server as part of my "fresh" Mandrake 9.0 install, then installed DrakSync, which was not one of the packages installed by default.
The next step was to log the new machine into the old machine, including password for the user whose data I wanted to move. (The DrakSync screens are not terribly easy to figure out, but they aren't overly hard. This might take you a few moments the first time, but will go smoothly after that.) You need to know the IP address of the "remote" machine, of course, same as with almost any other networking activity or data transfer.
A big huge caution when using Draksync!!! - by default, it will remove the files from the "sending" machine as it transfers them to the "receiving" machine. Uncheck that box if you just want to copy files, not move them!
Okay, these hurdles jumped, I managed to transfer my entire /home/robin partition to the laptop with the new Mandrake installation on it -- in two passes. The first pass got directories, the second pass got all the files in those directories. And since I was moving lots and lots of data, like all the stories I've written in the last year, a few hundred (legally obtained) MP3s, and all my email, bookmarks, desktop settings, and the entire contents of three small Web sites I maintain, this two-step backup process took close to four hours over an 11MBPS (MegaBytes per Second) 802.11b wireless network. I didn't care about the backup taking so long. It was an automatic process that didn't need watching. And the results were worth it.
One of the big hassles with putting a new computer into service has always been getting all your favorite settings going on it and all your data moved to it. Windows and Mac people pay good money for programs that help them do this, and the Windows ones I've seen were just as quirky, in their own way, as Draksync -- and Draksync comes as part of Mandrake 9.0, and the whole Mandrake PowerPack Edition, at $70 US, costs less than most of the Windows backup/sync utilities all by themselves. This is a deal. A huge deal. Yet another reason Linux is worth the learning curve.
And now that I had a complete install, with all my personal stuff, going on my new laptop (new to me, anyway; a middle-aged IBM T-20 ThinkPad), I was ready to do an updgrade on my old HP OmniBook 4150, which I did without any problems while I used my fresh machine to work.
Once the upgrade on the old machine was complete, DrakSync showed its true power: Now that all the directories and most of the files in both machines were the same, and the only things being moved from the fresh machine to the older one were file changes (mostly new email) since I moved from one machine to the other, the sychronization process only took a few moments, and all future backups will be just as fast.
I have achieved data backup nirvana: Two laptops with exactly the same software and up-to-date data on them, even if I'm on the road with one of the laptops and the other one is at home.
What Else Can I Say?
I have not experienced any of the CD "supermount" problems other reviewers say they have had with Mandrake 9.0. I have been shoving CDs in the slot and either listening to music on them or grabbing data from them without a thought.
Mandrake's PowerPack Edition includes all the software I need to do everything I need to do, including setting up a test server (behind our home hardware firewall) for a site my wife hopes to launch early next year.
KDE 3.0 is nice, and it's the desktop I'm using now, just as I used KDE 2.x before, and 1.x before that, but I don't spend a lot of time thinking about my desktop. I am more interested in the applications that cover it, particularly Mozilla, since I work on the Internet all day, and Mozilla 1.1 (included with Mandrake 9.0) is smoother and nicer than the 0.9.8 version included with Mandrake 8.2.
In general, I would say "a little smoother and a little nicer" is the best way to sum up Mandrake 9.0 and the applications included in the PowerPack Edition. Nothing struck me as ground-breaking, and a lot of the traditional Mandrake quirks are still there.
I've become so used to those quirks that you'll notice I call them "quirks" instead of "bugs" or "flaws" or "irritations," which I'm sure many consider them to be.
This is a very human thing, to prefer the familiar and its known flaws to something unfamiliar even if the new whatsis is better than your current preference. This human trait is one of the biggest reasons people keep using Windows, and I'm sure it is the biggest reason I keep using Mandrake even though I'm sure [your favorite distro here] is superior in many ways.
Comments
on Fun with Mandrake PowerPack 9.0Note: Comments are owned by the poster. We are not responsible for their content.
Get the src rpms and recompile them yourself. Download the source rpm, do na rpm --rebuild name.src.rpm, then install the rpm.
http://ranger.dnsalias.com/mandrake/mandrake9.0/
<nobr> <wbr></nobr>
Linked from http://www.pclinuxonline.com/
<nobr> <wbr></nobr>
Linked from http://www.pclinuxonline.com/
NVIDIA doesn't seem that quick with the RPMs (last I checked they didn't have Red Hat 8 either). In the meantime, just download the<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.tar.gz package from Nvidia, or follow the other poster's instructions on making the RPM. Just do the usual make, make install. You may need to have kernel sources installed, but I'm not sure. Just follow the instructions on changing your<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/etc/X11/XF86Config-4 file, which are very, very simple (just change the driver name from nv to nvidia if I recall correctly). I have done this on MDK 9 and the NVidia drivers work great.
You clearly are not using a powerpack, which ships with drivers for the Alcatel ADSL modem, and the NVidia binary drivers, both of which should work out the box if you were.
ranger (whose NVidia RPMs are linked to above).
ranger (whose NVidia RPMs are linked to above).
I first got 9.0 from a magazine CD
I had 8.2 installed and I first tried upgrade and indeed my speedtouch stopped working. After spending a few hours failing to make it work I did a clean install of 9.0 and Lo and Behold! it worked just fine.
I had 8.2 installed and I first tried upgrade and indeed my speedtouch stopped working. After spending a few hours failing to make it work I did a clean install of 9.0 and Lo and Behold! it worked just fine.
I had host of problems with dvd (master) & cdrw (slave), I changed the master-slave settings and still had problems.... last time I checked on mandrakeusers forum I am not the only one..
So - back to trusty/stable mdk 8.2 for me.. and waiting for 9.1
-kola
So - back to trusty/stable mdk 8.2 for me.. and waiting for 9.1
-kola
For me it works...and i just put the mntg.o in the directory that they say!!!
Come on! USB? You're just asking for trouble there. Get a NIC!
USB isnt asking for trouble, IT others a cheap and pretty speedy solution. I dont see the point in going out and paying more money on hardware when i already have spent money on hardware that works on other OSes. Thats what linux is about low cost to the end user, So if was to go out and buy new hardware that just works for linux then linux is no longer low cost.
yawn
Agreed. The USB bus is inferior to this task (although this may be different with USB 2.x, I don't know.) It's really a disservice that the manufacturers of these devices perpetrate on the public.
As for it 'working under Windows', well, that's not the measure I'd want to put on anything. Part of the beauty of using Linux is that it enables one to afford proper hardware. Perhaps we should have to support every sort of controllerless modem, as well, because they 'work under Windows?' No matter how much crap they are, in fact?
A NIC can be had for just a few dollars. I think PCMCIA NICs in my area go for about US$40. And how many hours has the OP wasted trying to get that piece of junk working? How much has he paid himself per hour for this aggravation?
As for it 'working under Windows', well, that's not the measure I'd want to put on anything. Part of the beauty of using Linux is that it enables one to afford proper hardware. Perhaps we should have to support every sort of controllerless modem, as well, because they 'work under Windows?' No matter how much crap they are, in fact?
A NIC can be had for just a few dollars. I think PCMCIA NICs in my area go for about US$40. And how many hours has the OP wasted trying to get that piece of junk working? How much has he paid himself per hour for this aggravation?
There is also a very extensive and positive review of Mandrake 9.0 at:
<A HREF="http://www.mozillaquest.com/Linux02/Mandrake_Linux_9-0_FirstLook_story-01.html">http://www.mozillaquest.com/Linux02/Mandrake_Linu<nobr>x<wbr></nobr> _9-0_FirstLook_story-01.html</a mozillaquest.com>
It seems that MozillaQuest' Mike Angelo is doing a better job than before.
MozillaQuest is like a poorman's Ziff Davis.
how much does mandrake pay for this propaganda ?
So if a product works well for me, I must be getting paid by them if I say so?
Huh?
Welcome to the world beyond the "paid product endorsements" you see on your TV screen. This is not TV. I am not an actor.
I have no problem tearing into Mandrake or any other vendor whose products I test if they don't do what their makers claim. Indeed, I have been accused in the past of being too *harsh* on Mandrake.
Conversely, praise when it's deserved, okay? And space for you to offer your own opinion if you disagree with me.
- Robin
Huh?
Welcome to the world beyond the "paid product endorsements" you see on your TV screen. This is not TV. I am not an actor.
I have no problem tearing into Mandrake or any other vendor whose products I test if they don't do what their makers claim. Indeed, I have been accused in the past of being too *harsh* on Mandrake.
Conversely, praise when it's deserved, okay? And space for you to offer your own opinion if you disagree with me.
- Robin
"One quirk Mandrake has had for a long time, and has kept in 9.0, is a set of default package choices I think are just a little silly at times. Why wouldn't Flash install as a Mozilla plugin automatically? Why both OpenOffice and StarOffice instead of one or the other?"
Flash not installed - I suspect this has to do with keeping MDK90 as a free Distro whereever possible. Commercial products (ie non OSS) are kept to a side in MDK90 so that users cannot be hoiked later if a supplier changes the distribution of said products from free downloads to pay-for-use.
OOo & SO6 - The Powerpack contains a paid-for copy of SO6 (if I recall correctly), unlike the basic MDK packages for purchase or the downloadable version. OOo might be popped in to maintain consistency within the installation program for these other versions??
Cheers
Flash not installed - I suspect this has to do with keeping MDK90 as a free Distro whereever possible. Commercial products (ie non OSS) are kept to a side in MDK90 so that users cannot be hoiked later if a supplier changes the distribution of said products from free downloads to pay-for-use.
OOo & SO6 - The Powerpack contains a paid-for copy of SO6 (if I recall correctly), unlike the basic MDK packages for purchase or the downloadable version. OOo might be popped in to maintain consistency within the installation program for these other versions??
Cheers
I believe what the author intended to say is that why should the Flash plugin only be installed when using Netscape as opposed to when you only decide ot install Mozilla. As far as the StarOffice/OpenOffice.org installations go, I agree that only one really need be installed. I would opt for StarOffice by default and for the download MDK obviously not containing StarOffice to default to OpenOffice.org when StarOffice is not found. So in essence, it is not whether or not a package is free or distributed as such but really attention to detail that is being addressed.
I have used Mandrake for a few years and I can say that's the worst release ever, I've found lots of bugs, the supermount CDs always crash, I can't use it to install software from CDs, also, the firewall doesn't work, many things that came as default before, it isn't now, how they can call as a desktop product, if doesn't come with the standards plug ins on Mozilla, that's ridiculous... I've been thinking about moving my distribuition, and I just don't use debian because the binaries are really outdated.
I have not had any of the problems you complain about
I don't know if this is what is haunting you, but several users, myself included, are having tremendous problems with the combination of Athlon/Duron (and maybe due to VIA-chipsets, not really clear on that one yet).
What we've been able to gather this far, these problems (mostly IDE-related) are not only on MD 9.0 but on SuSE 8.1 too. This may be a kernel bug in 2.4.19 - we are still evaluating this.
In the meantime, if possible, try the 2.2-kernels included. That will most likely fix any problems you may have if your problem too is related to Athlon/Duron/VIA. Good luck! You may need it.
(On the MD9.0 installation CD, press F1 and then look at advanced help (F2) to determine which kernel to use. They are misspelled, the correct names are alt1, alt2, and alt3 (not 'lt#').
What we've been able to gather this far, these problems (mostly IDE-related) are not only on MD 9.0 but on SuSE 8.1 too. This may be a kernel bug in 2.4.19 - we are still evaluating this.
In the meantime, if possible, try the 2.2-kernels included. That will most likely fix any problems you may have if your problem too is related to Athlon/Duron/VIA. Good luck! You may need it.
(On the MD9.0 installation CD, press F1 and then look at advanced help (F2) to determine which kernel to use. They are misspelled, the correct names are alt1, alt2, and alt3 (not 'lt#').
Have you guys tried booting with the 'noapic' boot option (ie use "linux noapic" at the LILO prompt)?
It seems some motherboards have buggy APIC (Advanced Promgrammeable Interrupt Controller) implementations, that give problems on 2.4.19 kernels. In many cases, wierd hardware errors (I saw it once where a network card was not recognized) are as a result of this.
This seems to be common on AMD boards running VIA chipsets.
This is noted in the Mandrake 9.0 errata AFAIK.
ranger
It seems some motherboards have buggy APIC (Advanced Promgrammeable Interrupt Controller) implementations, that give problems on 2.4.19 kernels. In many cases, wierd hardware errors (I saw it once where a network card was not recognized) are as a result of this.
This seems to be common on AMD boards running VIA chipsets.
This is noted in the Mandrake 9.0 errata AFAIK.
ranger
Yeah, at least I have tried nopentium, noapic, no dma/udma, everything turned off in BIOS, et al. It doesn't get any better, at least not noticeable.
I don't have the time to dig deep into the kernel to add the patch from 2.4.18 to 2.4.19 'one-by-one' to see if there is a single thing that make it work.
A really, really nice thing would have been if Mandrake had shipped more kernels to choose from, not only one 2.4 and two 2.2's. In the future, couldn't they provide also the most stable one from the previous distribution? That could possibly save a few tears further down the distribution line...
I don't have the time to dig deep into the kernel to add the patch from 2.4.18 to 2.4.19 'one-by-one' to see if there is a single thing that make it work.
A really, really nice thing would have been if Mandrake had shipped more kernels to choose from, not only one 2.4 and two 2.2's. In the future, couldn't they provide also the most stable one from the previous distribution? That could possibly save a few tears further down the distribution line...
As long as you are using 'copycat' hardware e.g. AMD and VIA, you can't complain about inconsistencies and incompatiblities. I've built approx. 50 computers, 4 of them with AMD & VIA. All 4 had major problems, both with Windows & Linux.. Luckily, we will soon see the demise of AMD!!! No one, no matter how smart, can work in all the bugs of copycat hardware.
You troll.
I have used a 700 Mhz Duron with a VIA chipset for the last two years and have had no problems with it (haven't tried Mandrake) on SuSe 7.1, Slack 7.0 and now Gentoo
I say go AMD
I say go AMD
There are 2 different 2.4 kernels, the Mandrake kernel, and a stock 2.4.19 kernel (the linus kernel).
If you have problems with kernel-linus2.4, then it is obviously a kernel bug and not one of the Mandrake patches.
If you have problems with kernel-linus2.4, then it is obviously a kernel bug and not one of the Mandrake patches.
I didn't have any problem with different installs of Mandrake 9.0 on different hardwares, and I'm using it everyday flawlessly! Great release...
I run it on an Athlon at home and an old gateway pII at work. The only bug I've found was that some the cgi stuff didn't work in Apache out of the box. Found in the newsgroups that this was a known bug in Mandrake. Whether that was true or not, I don't know, but adding the right line to the config file fixed it.
I'm using Mandrake 9 right now. I don't have any of the problems you mentioned. So you have to download flash! You have to do that in Netscape on windows too! I spent $79 for codeweavers and $15 for Winex. I now run MS Office, Quicken,Visio and have all the plugins not available for linux (Shockwave,Windows Media Player, Quicken, Flash 8). Plus I play Grand Theft AutoIII & Max Payne right beside all the native titles, I have all of loki's titles, UT2003, Quake3 & Castle Wolfenstien. For my College classes, I can take formulas and Calculations done in Mathematica for linux and export them to Word, plug in an Excell spreadsheet and email it to my professor with %100 certainty he will be able to read it properly formatted and send it back with corrections to me.
If that's not a desktop, what is? I no longer have to dual boot. I can do the exact same things I did in windows, and I didn't have to do anything too difficult to accomplish this. All this was made exceptionally easy, I downloaded the iso's, burned the CD and the install was easy. The only thing I might have done differently is join Mandrake Club and buy Codeweavers products and Transgamming Winex through their online deals. About once a year previously I would buy the prepackaged Mandrake releases, I did this to support them, I don't buy every release as often as linux distributions ship, I would be spending less for windows. I hadn't bought any software for it except the occasional games since 1999 when I purchased the computer!
If that's not a desktop, what is? I no longer have to dual boot. I can do the exact same things I did in windows, and I didn't have to do anything too difficult to accomplish this. All this was made exceptionally easy, I downloaded the iso's, burned the CD and the install was easy. The only thing I might have done differently is join Mandrake Club and buy Codeweavers products and Transgamming Winex through their online deals. About once a year previously I would buy the prepackaged Mandrake releases, I did this to support them, I don't buy every release as often as linux distributions ship, I would be spending less for windows. I hadn't bought any software for it except the occasional games since 1999 when I purchased the computer!
This is the biggest piece of crap imaginable. I've installed it on 3 platforms. A dual 450MHz P3 a dual 733MHz P3 and an IBM Laptop (366MHz) and on all three it is slow and buggy. X apps randomly close themselves the install is buggy and had to be reapplied on the laptop 3 times before I got through it error free. I use Libranet and Slackware most commonly but have used RedHat 7.3 and a number of the SuSEs (left due to non standard config tools). None of these other distros had the install bugs or the performance problems I've experienced with Mandrake 9.0. I really didn't like 8.2 so I'm probably biased but this is a new low and has guaranteed I won't be trying Mandrake again anytime soon. Especially after paying for this crap. This distro is a black mark against open source if I've ever seen one, I hope they get the next release right because I really believed they would be the only ones capable of fighting off RedHat's bastardization of the OS.
I have used Mandrake for a few years and I can say that's the worst release ever
Possibly in some regards, depending on your hardware.
I've found lots of bugs, the supermount CDs always crash, I can't use it to install software from CDs
So disable supermount, you can do it in Mandrake Control Center. It was worse (in some respects) in 8.2. Saving to a floppy would crash the machine. Unfortunately, when supermount doesn't work, it is a big problem, but when it works, it's cool.
also, the firewall doesn't work
The firewall does work, but in some circumstances it doesn't get configured correctly. Did you read the errata?
many things that came as default before it isn't now
AFAIK everything that worked before, still does
how they can call as a desktop product, if doesn't come with the standards plug ins on Mozilla
It does, it just doesn't *install* them by default. You could select them during installation or afterwards. Windows doesn't come with an Office Suite, how can it be an desktop OS (Mandrake ships with a few!).
that's ridiculous... I've been thinking about moving my distribuition, and I just don't use debian because the binaries are really outdated.
Come on, you want to change to Debian because closed-source plugins aren't installed by default???
ranger
Possibly in some regards, depending on your hardware.
I've found lots of bugs, the supermount CDs always crash, I can't use it to install software from CDs
So disable supermount, you can do it in Mandrake Control Center. It was worse (in some respects) in 8.2. Saving to a floppy would crash the machine. Unfortunately, when supermount doesn't work, it is a big problem, but when it works, it's cool.
also, the firewall doesn't work
The firewall does work, but in some circumstances it doesn't get configured correctly. Did you read the errata?
many things that came as default before it isn't now
AFAIK everything that worked before, still does
how they can call as a desktop product, if doesn't come with the standards plug ins on Mozilla
It does, it just doesn't *install* them by default. You could select them during installation or afterwards. Windows doesn't come with an Office Suite, how can it be an desktop OS (Mandrake ships with a few!).
that's ridiculous... I've been thinking about moving my distribuition, and I just don't use debian because the binaries are really outdated.
Come on, you want to change to Debian because closed-source plugins aren't installed by default???
ranger
I've found lots of bugs, the supermount CDs always crash, I can't use it to install software from CDs
So disable supermount, you can do it in Mandrake Control Center. It was worse (in some respects) in 8.2. Saving to a floppy would crash the machine. Unfortunately, when supermount doesn't work, it is a big problem, but when it works, it's cool.
Jikes! thats why my 8.2 chrashed the other day when I tride to copy some files to floppy, looks like I don't use floppys much anymore:-) ).0 is in the mail so I didæt try to fix it, but as I always have said supermount is evil. I usually use it until the first problem then disable. Someone tried to playing a audio CD in one CD-rom, and then opening a data CD in the other?
Supermount isn´t in debian, so disable it in madnrake. Firewall is ten times easier to setup in mandrake than debian (although you can get the mandrake setp prox bastille to debian) Plugins in debian you have too install by hand in debian, remember debian is "free as in freedom" that mean´s NO CLOSED SOURCE AT ALL! And about the updates to debian: I ran sid (unstable) for 9 month, and never had a single problem with it, every day you could get a fresh cvs version of abiword and wine, and they where the first to include x 4.2.1 (came out a few days later than XFree´s own release day.)
I think I see a trend. Easy to install, same dumb choices, Mozilla, and Konquer browsers, neither full features, you have to go back and forth. Flashplayer is not installed, but it is on the cd, use software manager to find and install. Xine is crap, easer to uninstall then reinstall. libpng.so.2 & libpng.so.3 conflict. And sites with these files are disapearing. gcc3.3.0 & gcc3.0.4 conflict,etc. I haven't gotten a installed program to install with a icon yet. Scanner works, but OpenUniverse that came with MD8.2 has a segmentation fault that I can't fix.
I have not had any of the problems that you've mentioned. Yes, I have found a few "minor" bugs but they have all been corrected. I think this release is great.
For some newbie to try to set up a dual boot, particularly with windows, is nearly mission impossible. Mainly because of a dearth of hardware and driver support for linmodems and generic sound cards from the "major" distros. And there's a lot of generic cards on windows machines.
How many newbies are going to put $200 worth of cards in so internet and sound will boot up?
How many newbies are going to put $200 worth of cards in so internet and sound will boot up?
The problem with lack of hardware support in Linux, though, is not for lack of trying. It's usually because the hardware manufacturer refuses to open up specs or won't bother to write a proprietary Linux driver for their hardware. Consequently, a lot of the drivers are reverse engineered hacks that don't always work as well as their Windows counterparts.
One could argue that this is another leg of Microsoft's monopoly at work.
One could argue that this is another leg of Microsoft's monopoly at work.
Thanks for the response. Actually, I enjoyed configuring my linmodem and soundblaster clone. But I can see why a new guy wouldn't. And why does suse support some stuff and red hat doesn't?
802.11 links actually support 11Mbps, not 11MBps... that's quite a difference<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)
This article starts out talking about how good the distro is then lists a ton of problems, many of which sound like Mandrake only problems. Sounds like this baby is a bit buggy. Any thoughts?
As far as I know, the standard 802.11b is 11Mbps which is 11Megabitpersecond, not MegaByte. For 802.11a is 54Mbps(or around 50Mbps). I guess if you want a bandwidth of 11MBPS, you need to have OC-x internet or WAN backbone.
"Why both OpenOffice and StarOffice instead of one or the other? Mandrake needs to put more thought into package selection. Right now the choices are overwhelming, and nearly useless for a new Linux user who doesn't know the difference between StarOffice and OpenOffice, and probably has no idea what all the image programs Mandrake includes do."
two words.
Red Hat
They've done a much better job with this than mandrake. selecting one default app for your browser, one for e-mail. one for IM.
And if you want to use the others, everything is still there. it's just alot more cleaned up, than mandrake
two words.
Red Hat
They've done a much better job with this than mandrake. selecting one default app for your browser, one for e-mail. one for IM.
And if you want to use the others, everything is still there. it's just alot more cleaned up, than mandrake
I tried Red Hat 8.0 on two different machines. On the first one, I couldn't complete the installation because it just shutdowned everytime, on the other one I got many freezes on the desktop while using it, and also the X server restarted several times. Not any of these issues with Mandrake, which has the most rock-solid installer available today. Regarding the set of applications, I'm afraid you are wrong: just selecting a workstation install under RH 8.0 installs more than 1,2 GB of packages... this is far much more than default Mandrake installs. Red Hat 8.0 might look a bit better than Mandrake 9.0, I would neither recommend it not use at all. Far too much unstable and bloated.
really? I haven't had any problems with it. I used to run mandrake all the time. I still rn it on my server. But i had issues with the desktop. kind of stuff you described. Actually. i think linux is a picky OS. if it dosen't like what you got for hardware. it basically gives you the finger.
I have installed and used several versions of Red Hat, Mandrake, and SuSE 8.0. They ALL have quirks ranging from amusing to irritating. The SuSE distro worked well except for double icons any time KOffice was used (including the icons down the left side of the KOffice Desktop. Red Hat 7.1, using Gnome also worked well except for the internet dialler, which worked properly a few times, then became afflicted with dementia - it forgot what it is supposed to do. I have my own method of dealing with Zip drives but none of the distros will leave my mods alone. I am currently running Mandrake 8.2, with Netscape 7.0 and Star Ofice 6.0 (the commercial version) and so far it's all working well - so leave well enough alone!
I don't agree with all the folks who recommend loading a small subset of software available. When I started with Linux, whatever distro I was using, I would do an "everything" install. After going through and opening and trying to figure out how to use every package, I now have a good idea of what I want to use. How else are you going to know what works if you don't try them?
I recently bought a new PC and acquired Mandrake 8.2 from a friend. The install went well, and then I "upgraded" to 9 (download edition). The results were, well, disappointing.
Problems:
- repeated, persistent problems installing important modules such as the kernlel;
- inconsistent behaviour while operating such as the disappearance/reappearance of functionality that allows apps. such as Mozilla to work (ie: on one boot Mozilla functions just fine, the next it won't stat at all, repeat as necessary).
Switched back to 8.2 and now I'm having the same types of problems. Except I also get the added bonus of *extremely* long load times for ridiculous items such as a terminal (KDE), and the KDE media player (noatun) which ran just fine for the first few days now refuses to run at all.
I'm downloading Redhat.
It's a real shame that a Linux distro. almost had me running to the store for Windows.
Pierre
Problems:
- repeated, persistent problems installing important modules such as the kernlel;
- inconsistent behaviour while operating such as the disappearance/reappearance of functionality that allows apps. such as Mozilla to work (ie: on one boot Mozilla functions just fine, the next it won't stat at all, repeat as necessary).
Switched back to 8.2 and now I'm having the same types of problems. Except I also get the added bonus of *extremely* long load times for ridiculous items such as a terminal (KDE), and the KDE media player (noatun) which ran just fine for the first few days now refuses to run at all.
I'm downloading Redhat.
It's a real shame that a Linux distro. almost had me running to the store for Windows.
Pierre
If you had problems during installation, then you either had bad media for your download CDs, or you have hardware issues.
Besides the supermount issue (which is not an issue installation) Mandrake 9.0 is the best freely avialable linux distribution. I have installed it on many machines, all flawlessly. Some machines that have the APIC issue missed hardware until I set lilo to use noapic, but you would get this with any 2.4.19 kernel.
I tried redhat 8.0, but couldn't take it. I would like to see Lycoris,Xandros and Lindows, just to see what the fuss is about, but I don't think even they are up to Mandrake 9.0.
Besides the supermount issue (which is not an issue installation) Mandrake 9.0 is the best freely avialable linux distribution. I have installed it on many machines, all flawlessly. Some machines that have the APIC issue missed hardware until I set lilo to use noapic, but you would get this with any 2.4.19 kernel.
I tried redhat 8.0, but couldn't take it. I would like to see Lycoris,Xandros and Lindows, just to see what the fuss is about, but I don't think even they are up to Mandrake 9.0.
It's f@$%ing hardware apparently. I tried installing Redhat 8.0 last night and I got endless APIC errors on install. So I'm back on Mandrake 8.2, which is also unsatisfactory due to it having unexpected "functionality loss" and strange slowdowns.
I tried to install Mandrake 9.0 with the 2.2 kernel, but no dice.
I'll try again but pass the noapic flag to the kernel on install.
Pierre
I tried to install Mandrake 9.0 with the 2.2 kernel, but no dice.
I'll try again but pass the noapic flag to the kernel on install.
Pierre
It definately sounds like a hardware problem. Also, if you did an upgrade of an existing distribution then some of the configuration files might not be appropriate for the new software (particularly in your home directory). You could try creating a new user and see if the application load times improve, if so, it sounds like something is amiss in your home directory.
I would also recommend joining the newbie and/or expert lists for Mandrake and post your problems there. I'm sure someone will be able to help. To join, go to Mandrake's home page and on the left side under the Support heading, there should be a link to mailing lists.
Joeb
I would also recommend joining the newbie and/or expert lists for Mandrake and post your problems there. I'm sure someone will be able to help. To join, go to Mandrake's home page and on the left side under the Support heading, there should be a link to mailing lists.
Joeb
I've run into the kinds of problems that you are experiencing enough times with various OSes to just give up on the idea entirely. Believe me, it's not just a Linux or Mandrake problem. It's not even just a *nix problem. Anyone else remember the joy of a Win95 to Win2k upgrade? Or Microsoft's aborted attempt to 'upgrade' an OS/2 desktop to Win 3.x?<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:(
I now routinely just back up my data and reformat. Here's the approach that I use now that works pretty well:
If you haven't done so already, create a separate partition for<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/home and another for<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/usr. You should then have 3 partitions;<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/,<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/usr, and<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/home.
If you want, create another partition for<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/boot. I personally haven't found that to be a very useful partition to have, but some of the documentation's authors would have you believe it's critical. Whatever. IMO it's only critical if you're the kind of guy who loves to tinker with kernel changes.
Another partition that some people create is<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/var to hold all the system logs. I normally don't bother with this. Instead, I just throw a GB or two into the / partition instead. Disk space is cheap now. BTW, don't skimp on the<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/usr or<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/home partitions unless you're reusing an old HD.
Once you have your data files in your shiny new<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/home partition, re-boot your Mandrake 9.0 CD but tell it to do a fresh install, not an upgrade or repair. Choose expert and tell it to format<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/usr,<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/, and<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/boot (if you created this last one). Most of the rest of the choices you can just leave at default.
That leaves you with a brand new OS platform but doesn't touch your data at all. That should resolve at least some of your conflicts.
I now routinely just back up my data and reformat. Here's the approach that I use now that works pretty well:
If you haven't done so already, create a separate partition for<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/home and another for<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/usr. You should then have 3 partitions;<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/,<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/usr, and<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/home.
If you want, create another partition for<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/boot. I personally haven't found that to be a very useful partition to have, but some of the documentation's authors would have you believe it's critical. Whatever. IMO it's only critical if you're the kind of guy who loves to tinker with kernel changes.
Another partition that some people create is<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/var to hold all the system logs. I normally don't bother with this. Instead, I just throw a GB or two into the / partition instead. Disk space is cheap now. BTW, don't skimp on the<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/usr or<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/home partitions unless you're reusing an old HD.
Once you have your data files in your shiny new<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/home partition, re-boot your Mandrake 9.0 CD but tell it to do a fresh install, not an upgrade or repair. Choose expert and tell it to format<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/usr,<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/, and<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/boot (if you created this last one). Most of the rest of the choices you can just leave at default.
That leaves you with a brand new OS platform but doesn't touch your data at all. That should resolve at least some of your conflicts.
How about revisiting MandrakeClub some time?
Back when it was announced there really was nothing on the Club site but now there actually is content, in several languages!
If you're looking for something to justify the cost I think you'll find the services developed there adequate now. Other than that, some people just like to support their favourite distribution which still gives the poor people the option not to pay unlike all the other major commercial distributions that have invented a way to require the cash one way or another.
Having the whole distribution GPL'd and a lot of free services from MandrakeSoft seems reason enough for me to join even without the nice services available at the Club site. I don't think it's charity. I just pay to keep Mandrake in business doing the world's best Free as in Freedom desktop Linux distribution. Shouldn't you too if you're enjoying their products? Not everyone gives a choice.
and since someone already accused Roblimo of being bribed: no, MandrakeSoft doesn't pay me. In fact, I don't think they are in a financial situation where they could afford to. The club _really_ needs more members so I'm just letting people know they should consider joining...
Back when it was announced there really was nothing on the Club site but now there actually is content, in several languages!
If you're looking for something to justify the cost I think you'll find the services developed there adequate now. Other than that, some people just like to support their favourite distribution which still gives the poor people the option not to pay unlike all the other major commercial distributions that have invented a way to require the cash one way or another.
Having the whole distribution GPL'd and a lot of free services from MandrakeSoft seems reason enough for me to join even without the nice services available at the Club site. I don't think it's charity. I just pay to keep Mandrake in business doing the world's best Free as in Freedom desktop Linux distribution. Shouldn't you too if you're enjoying their products? Not everyone gives a choice.
and since someone already accused Roblimo of being bribed: no, MandrakeSoft doesn't pay me. In fact, I don't think they are in a financial situation where they could afford to. The club _really_ needs more members so I'm just letting people know they should consider joining...
MandrakeClub could certainly use some third-party advertising, and IMHO more than deserves it.
However, Roblimo is a member of MandrakeClub since March 2002, which shows that he really wants to help MandrakeSoft (I mean, let's face it - he could have easily had the Club membership free of charge if he wanted to...). At that time, still club didn't offer much, and most of the members joined without expecting anything in return expect to see MandrakeLinux going on...
In the meantime, Club developed a lot, and I'm quite sure that Rob will sooner or later have to admit that Club is really a cool place now.
Maybe we haven't hit something that would really make him happy yet, but when we finally do it, I'm sure he'll write an article about it, and NOBODY will be able to say "nah, Mandrakesoft payed him for advertising".<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-)
Denis Havlik, aka Deno from MandrakeClub
However, Roblimo is a member of MandrakeClub since March 2002, which shows that he really wants to help MandrakeSoft (I mean, let's face it - he could have easily had the Club membership free of charge if he wanted to...). At that time, still club didn't offer much, and most of the members joined without expecting anything in return expect to see MandrakeLinux going on...
In the meantime, Club developed a lot, and I'm quite sure that Rob will sooner or later have to admit that Club is really a cool place now.
Maybe we haven't hit something that would really make him happy yet, but when we finally do it, I'm sure he'll write an article about it, and NOBODY will be able to say "nah, Mandrakesoft payed him for advertising".<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-)
Denis Havlik, aka Deno from MandrakeClub
Charity? Hello?
If you use Mandrake Linux, someone has to pay for the devlopment costs. Just because you can get it for free doesn't me you shouldn't pay something for it.
You are paying to suuport the continued devlopment and to speed up improvements.
Isn't that a lot?
If you use Mandrake Linux, someone has to pay for the devlopment costs. Just because you can get it for free doesn't me you shouldn't pay something for it.
You are paying to suuport the continued devlopment and to speed up improvements.
Isn't that a lot?
sorry if that came out like an attack at roblimo, I certainly didn't mean it that way, just recalled the article he wrote when the club was launched.
I was suspecting that he is a member... I was really only commenting on the lack of publicity for the club.
I was suspecting that he is a member... I was really only commenting on the lack of publicity for the club.
Someone posted the following sentence in a talkback to the article at
http://newsforge.com/newsforge/02/11/12/1628202.s<nobr>h<wbr></nobr> tml?tid=23
"You are paying to suuport the continued devlopment and to speed up improvements."
-------------------------------------------------<nobr>-<wbr></nobr> -------------------------------------------------<nobr>-<wbr></nobr> -------
The above statement is a good way to look at open source software and the role companies play within the open source community.
--== Speed up improvements ==--
I bought/buy the retail packs of Red Hat, Mandrake and SuSE because they are major contributors to open source.
They make open source viable today not just at some time in the distant future.
Re: Speed up improvements
I believe that much of the open source software would probably be created anyway, eventually.
However, let's just have a look at the following simplified illustration.
Lets say we have one very dedicated developer spending 15 hours a week developing open source software free of charge in his/her spare time.
The working week is spend earning a living, very often developing proprietary solutions for customers/clients.
The net gain to the open source community is 15 hours a week of open source development.
Now lets compare this to the same employee working for a company like Red Hat, Mandrake or SuSE.
Now, the employee works something like 40 hours per week for his/her employer developing open source software, plus he/she is doing his/her 15 hours per week of open source development in his/her spare time.
This results in something like 55 hours per week of open source software been developed; compared to 15 hours per week if the employee were not been employed/sponsored by Red Hat, Mandrake or SuSE et al to work on open source software.
55 hours is nearly four times as many hours as 15.
Thus supporting companies who do support open source software will clearly result in faster development.
So what is the point of this observation?
Let's have a look at Linux on the desktop.
While Linux itself is more than a decade old, serious efforts to make Linux into a viable desktop competitor were only made starting about five years ago.
Companies started to financially support projects like KDE and later GNOME.
Today, five years later, Linux is a viable desktop competitor.
Had it not been for the financial support of the sponsors, developers would only have had time to work on open source software in their spare time.
Therefore, a viable desktop alternative would only be available in the distant future.
It would be hard to speculate when this might be, the year 2010, perhaps 2015, who knows?
What is certain, is that until then many people would be paying for many more, ever increasing upgrades ($$$), to their operating system and their office suite to comply with the forced upgrade cycle of a monopoly.
It would certainly be conducive to Linux' development if journalists could explain to their audience why buying a commercial software package speeds up continued improvements to open source software and give examples.
Regards
GS
PS
I am going to send a copy of this message to Red Hat, Mandrake and SuSE, for I believe that they could mention it more often in their PR, why buying commercial products or services speeds up Linux development.
In addition they could give examples so that people do get the message.
http://newsforge.com/newsforge/02/11/12/1628202.s<nobr>h<wbr></nobr> tml?tid=23
"You are paying to suuport the continued devlopment and to speed up improvements."
-------------------------------------------------<nobr>-<wbr></nobr> -------------------------------------------------<nobr>-<wbr></nobr> -------
The above statement is a good way to look at open source software and the role companies play within the open source community.
--== Speed up improvements ==--
I bought/buy the retail packs of Red Hat, Mandrake and SuSE because they are major contributors to open source.
They make open source viable today not just at some time in the distant future.
Re: Speed up improvements
I believe that much of the open source software would probably be created anyway, eventually.
However, let's just have a look at the following simplified illustration.
Lets say we have one very dedicated developer spending 15 hours a week developing open source software free of charge in his/her spare time.
The working week is spend earning a living, very often developing proprietary solutions for customers/clients.
The net gain to the open source community is 15 hours a week of open source development.
Now lets compare this to the same employee working for a company like Red Hat, Mandrake or SuSE.
Now, the employee works something like 40 hours per week for his/her employer developing open source software, plus he/she is doing his/her 15 hours per week of open source development in his/her spare time.
This results in something like 55 hours per week of open source software been developed; compared to 15 hours per week if the employee were not been employed/sponsored by Red Hat, Mandrake or SuSE et al to work on open source software.
55 hours is nearly four times as many hours as 15.
Thus supporting companies who do support open source software will clearly result in faster development.
So what is the point of this observation?
Let's have a look at Linux on the desktop.
While Linux itself is more than a decade old, serious efforts to make Linux into a viable desktop competitor were only made starting about five years ago.
Companies started to financially support projects like KDE and later GNOME.
Today, five years later, Linux is a viable desktop competitor.
Had it not been for the financial support of the sponsors, developers would only have had time to work on open source software in their spare time.
Therefore, a viable desktop alternative would only be available in the distant future.
It would be hard to speculate when this might be, the year 2010, perhaps 2015, who knows?
What is certain, is that until then many people would be paying for many more, ever increasing upgrades ($$$), to their operating system and their office suite to comply with the forced upgrade cycle of a monopoly.
It would certainly be conducive to Linux' development if journalists could explain to their audience why buying a commercial software package speeds up continued improvements to open source software and give examples.
Regards
GS
PS
I am going to send a copy of this message to Red Hat, Mandrake and SuSE, for I believe that they could mention it more often in their PR, why buying commercial products or services speeds up Linux development.
In addition they could give examples so that people do get the message.
The RPM-installation wizard (rpmdrake) is giving me the creeps. After installation I decided to install some more programs, did the urpmi.update cdrom8 as described in the errata, and all went well. Or so I thought. After spending almost an hour selecting my software, it started to install happily, but then it came to the conclusion that 2 of my selected packages was interfering with each other, and viola - I had to start _ALL OVER AGAIN_. I did remember what packages that was, but when I re-did the selections I took the precaution of doing them on a 'per-group' basis which meant I spent all afternoon switching CD's back and forth.
You can't even see what you have installed either, you don't get a real dependencies check, and it resets everything on *ALL* errors. RPMDrake is a shame even compared to MSDOS 2.11.
Release things that work, not things that will work in Mandrake 10.3!
You can't even see what you have installed either, you don't get a real dependencies check, and it resets everything on *ALL* errors. RPMDrake is a shame even compared to MSDOS 2.11.
Release things that work, not things that will work in Mandrake 10.3!
Re:RPMDrake is the worst RPM-manager ever.
Posted by: Anonymous Coward on November 20, 2002 12:11 PM
When adding things from PLF, it makes the dependencies check *after* it has downloaded all RPMS. If it fail at this point, not only do you have to reselect things, you will also need to download them *again*.
You think they're sponsored by the ISP community?
You think they're sponsored by the ISP community?
Re:RPMDrake is the worst RPM-manager ever.
Posted by: Anonymous Coward on November 22, 2002 12:33 AM
You can't even see what you have installed either
Yes it's strange...the pre 9.0 rpmdrake would always show you installed package versions. With the current version, they've made the gui look much nicer, but some of the functionality has been lost. On the other hand, the new version does show the package summary now when you click on a particular package, which never worked before for me. My guess is that they were rewriting the front end and were forced to release too soon in view of 9.0 being released, which is unfortunate. I'm hopeful that there will be an update soon which adds back in the old functions, without losing the new functionality.
You forgot to mention how cool urpmi is. urpmi rocks!
One thing I love that Mandrake has over Redhat, is actual hardware management. The *drake tools are great - whether it's configuring a new device or changing an old one.
I added a 30Gb drive to my linux server and thought here we go.. With DiskDrake though it was sooooo simple! All I did was right click on the drive, say 'format this and mount it as<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/var' - it went off.. formatted the drive, moved all the<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/var data across to the new drive, and mounted it - and it worked perfectly!
I think the wireless support built into Mandrake rocks too.. I have a pci-pcmcia cradle and cabletron card and it detected it all at startup without a problem at all. Furthermore, all of the wireless settings for the card are stored in<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/ifcfg-ethx and they're REALLY easy to edit. Gee.. multiple wireless cards - no problem!
No more pfaffing around with<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/etc/pcmcia config scripts and wondering what the MAC address of each card is.
Overall I've been impressed with Mandrake lately.. I was a RedHat user before this, but the sheer ease of use of Mandrake has won me over. Redhat 8.0 is nice (especially with the apt-get addons) - but the lack of hardware management tools (ie. disk management, device management, etc) really let them down.
Mandrake 8.2 set a new standard in my book, and Mandrake 9.0 (though it has it's share of bugs and quirks) is still a good step up from that.
One thing I love that Mandrake has over Redhat, is actual hardware management. The *drake tools are great - whether it's configuring a new device or changing an old one.
I added a 30Gb drive to my linux server and thought here we go.. With DiskDrake though it was sooooo simple! All I did was right click on the drive, say 'format this and mount it as<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/var' - it went off.. formatted the drive, moved all the<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/var data across to the new drive, and mounted it - and it worked perfectly!
I think the wireless support built into Mandrake rocks too.. I have a pci-pcmcia cradle and cabletron card and it detected it all at startup without a problem at all. Furthermore, all of the wireless settings for the card are stored in<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/ifcfg-ethx and they're REALLY easy to edit. Gee.. multiple wireless cards - no problem!
No more pfaffing around with<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/etc/pcmcia config scripts and wondering what the MAC address of each card is.
Overall I've been impressed with Mandrake lately.. I was a RedHat user before this, but the sheer ease of use of Mandrake has won me over. Redhat 8.0 is nice (especially with the apt-get addons) - but the lack of hardware management tools (ie. disk management, device management, etc) really let them down.
Mandrake 8.2 set a new standard in my book, and Mandrake 9.0 (though it has it's share of bugs and quirks) is still a good step up from that.
I'm impressed. Pixel always surprises me, but I never thought he would go so far as to actually move the data over before mounting a new<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/var.
urpmi was cool in mdk8.2 in mdk9.0 it is total crap... believe me I have used it extensivly.... dont even think to use graphical front end it is crapier....
They have done a rewrite of urpmi, so may be that is the reason for all problems... probably in 9.2 will be ok..
They have done a rewrite of urpmi, so may be that is the reason for all problems... probably in 9.2 will be ok..
i am a long time mandrake user. i have purchased 7.0, 7.2, 8.1 and 8.2. i plan on buying 9.0. i downloaded rh8 and mdk9. i installed both on a p3 933, 512MB, 40gb hdd, intel integrated video/sound, realtek nic. both installs went very smoothly. but they are targeted at different markets. rh wants to be on the corporate desktop, where a minimalist approach is better. mandrake aims for the user where choice is nice.
i haven't seen any of the problems people have about either. the only thing is that i found OO loads a bit faster under rh.
so, right now, the box is in my classroom, serving up X to 9 p120/32MB clients. fast. smooth. setup, easy.
funny thing is that since it is connected up to the school wan, and i have a lan setup in my class, i can get X anywhere on campus. it makes quite a scene, you should see!!! anyways, i don't know where people have been having problems. both worked great.
i haven't seen any of the problems people have about either. the only thing is that i found OO loads a bit faster under rh.
so, right now, the box is in my classroom, serving up X to 9 p120/32MB clients. fast. smooth. setup, easy.
funny thing is that since it is connected up to the school wan, and i have a lan setup in my class, i can get X anywhere on campus. it makes quite a scene, you should see!!! anyways, i don't know where people have been having problems. both worked great.
I'm still a fan of Mandrake, but Mandrake 9.0 was the reason to speed up my switch to Gentoo...
Even that I have worked a couple of days with it.... it outperform Mandrake on almoust all fronts... speed, easy of use once installed, package management, design etc...
Except may be in the end-user stuff, but Gentoo is for the power users anyway.
Mandrake 8.2 is a way much better...
I still preffer mdk over redhat but the points for this are much fewer now<nobr> <wbr></nobr>....
my 5c
Even that I have worked a couple of days with it.... it outperform Mandrake on almoust all fronts... speed, easy of use once installed, package management, design etc...
Except may be in the end-user stuff, but Gentoo is for the power users anyway.
Mandrake 8.2 is a way much better...
I still preffer mdk over redhat but the points for this are much fewer now<nobr> <wbr></nobr>....
my 5c
You are paying to suuport the continued devlopmen
Posted by: Anonymous Coward on November 20, 2002 07:17 PM
Someone posted the following sentence in a talkback.
"You are paying to suuport the continued devlopment and to speed up improvements."
-------------------------------------------------<nobr>-<wbr></nobr> -------------------------------------------------<nobr>-<wbr></nobr> -------
The above statement is a good way to look at open source software and the role companies play within the open source community.
--== Speed up improvements ==--
I bought/buy the retail packs of Red Hat, Mandrake and SuSE because they are major contributors to open source.
They make open source viable today not just at some time in the distant future.
Re: Speed up improvements
I believe that much of the open source software would probably be created anyway, eventually.
However, let's just have a look at the following simplified illustration.
Lets say we have one very dedicated developer spending 15 hours a week developing open source software free of charge in his/her spare time.
The working week is spend earning a living, very often developing proprietary solutions for customers/clients.
The net gain to the open source community is 15 hours a week of open source development.
Now lets compare this to the same employee working for a company like Red Hat, Mandrake or SuSE.
Now, the employee works something like 40 hours per week for his/her employer developing open source software, plus he/she is doing his/her 15 hours per week of open source development in his/her spare time.
This results in something like 55 hours per week of open source software been developed; compared to 15 hours per week if the employee were not been employed/sponsored by Red Hat, Mandrake or SuSE et al to work on open source software.
55 hours is nearly four times as many hours as 15.
Thus supporting companies who do support open source software will clearly result in faster development.
So what is the point of this observation?
Let's have a look at Linux on the desktop.
While Linux itself is more than a decade old, serious efforts to make Linux into a viable desktop competitor were only made starting about five years ago.
Companies started to financially support projects like KDE and later GNOME.
Today, five years later, Linux is a viable desktop competitor.
Had it not been for the financial support of the sponsors, developers would only have had time to work on open source software in their spare time.
Therefore, a viable desktop alternative would only be available in the distant future.
It would be hard to speculate when this might be, the year 2010, perhaps 2015, who knows?
What is certain, is that until then many people would be paying for many more, ever increasing upgrades ($$$), to their operating system and their office suite to comply with the forced upgrade cycle of a monopoly.
It would certainly be conducive to Linux' development if journalists could explain to their audience why buying a commercial software package speeds up continued improvements to open source software and give examples.
Regards
GS
PS
I am going to send a copy of this message to Red Hat, Mandrake and SuSE, for I believe that they could mention it more often in their PR, why buying commercial products or services speeds up Linux development.
In addition they could give examples so that people do get the message.
"You are paying to suuport the continued devlopment and to speed up improvements."
-------------------------------------------------<nobr>-<wbr></nobr> -------------------------------------------------<nobr>-<wbr></nobr> -------
The above statement is a good way to look at open source software and the role companies play within the open source community.
--== Speed up improvements ==--
I bought/buy the retail packs of Red Hat, Mandrake and SuSE because they are major contributors to open source.
They make open source viable today not just at some time in the distant future.
Re: Speed up improvements
I believe that much of the open source software would probably be created anyway, eventually.
However, let's just have a look at the following simplified illustration.
Lets say we have one very dedicated developer spending 15 hours a week developing open source software free of charge in his/her spare time.
The working week is spend earning a living, very often developing proprietary solutions for customers/clients.
The net gain to the open source community is 15 hours a week of open source development.
Now lets compare this to the same employee working for a company like Red Hat, Mandrake or SuSE.
Now, the employee works something like 40 hours per week for his/her employer developing open source software, plus he/she is doing his/her 15 hours per week of open source development in his/her spare time.
This results in something like 55 hours per week of open source software been developed; compared to 15 hours per week if the employee were not been employed/sponsored by Red Hat, Mandrake or SuSE et al to work on open source software.
55 hours is nearly four times as many hours as 15.
Thus supporting companies who do support open source software will clearly result in faster development.
So what is the point of this observation?
Let's have a look at Linux on the desktop.
While Linux itself is more than a decade old, serious efforts to make Linux into a viable desktop competitor were only made starting about five years ago.
Companies started to financially support projects like KDE and later GNOME.
Today, five years later, Linux is a viable desktop competitor.
Had it not been for the financial support of the sponsors, developers would only have had time to work on open source software in their spare time.
Therefore, a viable desktop alternative would only be available in the distant future.
It would be hard to speculate when this might be, the year 2010, perhaps 2015, who knows?
What is certain, is that until then many people would be paying for many more, ever increasing upgrades ($$$), to their operating system and their office suite to comply with the forced upgrade cycle of a monopoly.
It would certainly be conducive to Linux' development if journalists could explain to their audience why buying a commercial software package speeds up continued improvements to open source software and give examples.
Regards
GS
PS
I am going to send a copy of this message to Red Hat, Mandrake and SuSE, for I believe that they could mention it more often in their PR, why buying commercial products or services speeds up Linux development.
In addition they could give examples so that people do get the message.
I installed Mandrake 9.0 last week from discs supplied on a computer mag.
Problem 1: Loss off 12Gb of data including 1200 music files after Mandrake irretrievably trashed my partition table. Replacement time - a few hundred hours.
The installation went smoothly and detected all my hardware. All very mainstream.
Opening a video file caused a complete lock-up so I had to restart by hard booting. The problem was Xine so I changed the default program.
Problem 2: Each Redhat and Mandrake distro seems slower than the last. I have tried all Red Hat and Mandrake distros since 7.1. Each was an absolute dog. Glacially slow on my 1GHz Athlon, 256 meg ram, 32 meg Savage 4 graphics.
In fact every linux distro I have tried (Peanut, Lycoris, RH, Mandrake) except Knoppix has been practically useless and survived less than a week on my PC.
I want Linux to succeed but as long as the amateurish attitude prevails it has no future on the desktop. KDE and Gnome and the other window managers are hideous. Preconfiguration seems non-existant. Most of the fonts are atrocious. There is almost no consistent 'look and feel' between applications. Simple tasks like mounting non-linux partitions automatically doesn't occur. You are given half a dozen application that do the same thing - mostly badly.
The obsession with open source is killing the home desktop. I want Quicktime and Winamp 3 not Xmms. Lobby to get some get decent no-cost commercial apps ported.
Have a look at Knoppix. All it needs is some intallation tools to allow easy permanent installation - Debian based too.
I concede that Linux is better than Win98 - that is hardly an achievement.
I will make the switch in about 2 years when the glitches are sorted out.
Problem 1: Loss off 12Gb of data including 1200 music files after Mandrake irretrievably trashed my partition table. Replacement time - a few hundred hours.
The installation went smoothly and detected all my hardware. All very mainstream.
Opening a video file caused a complete lock-up so I had to restart by hard booting. The problem was Xine so I changed the default program.
Problem 2: Each Redhat and Mandrake distro seems slower than the last. I have tried all Red Hat and Mandrake distros since 7.1. Each was an absolute dog. Glacially slow on my 1GHz Athlon, 256 meg ram, 32 meg Savage 4 graphics.
In fact every linux distro I have tried (Peanut, Lycoris, RH, Mandrake) except Knoppix has been practically useless and survived less than a week on my PC.
I want Linux to succeed but as long as the amateurish attitude prevails it has no future on the desktop. KDE and Gnome and the other window managers are hideous. Preconfiguration seems non-existant. Most of the fonts are atrocious. There is almost no consistent 'look and feel' between applications. Simple tasks like mounting non-linux partitions automatically doesn't occur. You are given half a dozen application that do the same thing - mostly badly.
The obsession with open source is killing the home desktop. I want Quicktime and Winamp 3 not Xmms. Lobby to get some get decent no-cost commercial apps ported.
Have a look at Knoppix. All it needs is some intallation tools to allow easy permanent installation - Debian based too.
I concede that Linux is better than Win98 - that is hardly an achievement.
I will make the switch in about 2 years when the glitches are sorted out.
I don't mean this message as a slam, so please don't take it that way. However, I do feel it necessary to point out that you may have made a couple of fairly basic mistakes that might have been avoided.
First, did you back up your data before trying a brand new OS? At a minimum, did you buy a second HD and just install the new OS on that?
Second, were you aware that there are some vendors who are open source friendly and some that aren't? For example, in the video card market Nvidia has a very good reputation and Radeon has shown much improvement in the past year or two. Savage, OTOH, actively discourages open source development and refuses to share its APIs. No wonder Savage drivers for Linux and *BSD suck, and that therefore you saw significant problems that other users don't.
Athlon mobos and Linux can also be a problematic mix. There are some enduring problems with mobos built on VIA chipsets that have yet to be resolved to anyone's satisfaction. Mobos built on the Athlon/VIA split northbridge/southbridge chipset are more stable, and Intel mobos in general are more stable yet.
Again, this is a direct reflection of the respective vendors' support for OSS. Intel has decent support, as does AMD. VIA's is terrible. If VIA ever improves its support for OSS, I confidently expect that the ongoing problems would disappear almost overnight.
BTW, by supporting OSS I'm NOT advocating that hw vendors throw open their doors and release everything as OSS. All they really need to do is provide better documentation of their APIs and/or provide binary drivers themselves. Most hw vendors who do support OSS do so by choosing the 2nd option first, and gradually increasing the openness of their APIs when and where they feel they can.
I find it odd that the rest of your experience is exactly opposite of so many others. I have found each release of Mandrake to be better than the last; with ease of use, reliability, and speed improvements with each release. Well, OK, as long as I accept the inevitable x.0 problems that show up for any software. Even so, I was pleasantly surprised by the overall stability and usability of this latest release. I have one PC and a laptop converted now, and as soon as I can afford to replace the aging Athlon mobo I will also replace it on my kids' PC.
First, did you back up your data before trying a brand new OS? At a minimum, did you buy a second HD and just install the new OS on that?
Second, were you aware that there are some vendors who are open source friendly and some that aren't? For example, in the video card market Nvidia has a very good reputation and Radeon has shown much improvement in the past year or two. Savage, OTOH, actively discourages open source development and refuses to share its APIs. No wonder Savage drivers for Linux and *BSD suck, and that therefore you saw significant problems that other users don't.
Athlon mobos and Linux can also be a problematic mix. There are some enduring problems with mobos built on VIA chipsets that have yet to be resolved to anyone's satisfaction. Mobos built on the Athlon/VIA split northbridge/southbridge chipset are more stable, and Intel mobos in general are more stable yet.
Again, this is a direct reflection of the respective vendors' support for OSS. Intel has decent support, as does AMD. VIA's is terrible. If VIA ever improves its support for OSS, I confidently expect that the ongoing problems would disappear almost overnight.
BTW, by supporting OSS I'm NOT advocating that hw vendors throw open their doors and release everything as OSS. All they really need to do is provide better documentation of their APIs and/or provide binary drivers themselves. Most hw vendors who do support OSS do so by choosing the 2nd option first, and gradually increasing the openness of their APIs when and where they feel they can.
I find it odd that the rest of your experience is exactly opposite of so many others. I have found each release of Mandrake to be better than the last; with ease of use, reliability, and speed improvements with each release. Well, OK, as long as I accept the inevitable x.0 problems that show up for any software. Even so, I was pleasantly surprised by the overall stability and usability of this latest release. I have one PC and a laptop converted now, and as soon as I can afford to replace the aging Athlon mobo I will also replace it on my kids' PC.
Installed 9.0 on a gateway solo 9100xl laptop about 10 days ago, and it went quite smoothly. All my hardware was recognized and set up by the installer, including my pcmia network card..... I had redhat 7.2 on the same machine and I had to manually configure most of the hardware. I've not had any of the problems with supermount drives or upgeades from the Mandrake site others have mentioned. This old dusty laptop has a new lease on life, P266MMX, 5GB HD, 64 MB RAM and it runs like a champ!
Personally, this is the best distro I've seen yet as far as ease of setup and everything working properly right out of the box.... Much easier than 8.2 IMHO.
Quite pleased!
Personally, this is the best distro I've seen yet as far as ease of setup and everything working properly right out of the box.... Much easier than 8.2 IMHO.
Quite pleased!
One thing I've noticed about Mandrake 9.0 (and just about every other distro I've downloaded lately): lack of multimedia support!
This seems like a major oversight to me (but I'm not hearing anyone bitch about it<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-)), most of the computer users I know would go crying back to MS Windows the first time they came across a flash based website and couldn't access it. Why am I still compiling MPlayer on every new install (with sorrenson support finally!)? Where was Xanim (I swear it was in 8.x)? Transcode? Zapping doesn't seem to have a working Mpeg pluggin!?
Most of these packages are fairly mature now. But the advantage of using a distro is not having to hunt down every little piece yourself. What I like about Mandrake is that "it just works". But it doesn't yet.
This seems like a major oversight to me (but I'm not hearing anyone bitch about it<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-)), most of the computer users I know would go crying back to MS Windows the first time they came across a flash based website and couldn't access it. Why am I still compiling MPlayer on every new install (with sorrenson support finally!)? Where was Xanim (I swear it was in 8.x)? Transcode? Zapping doesn't seem to have a working Mpeg pluggin!?
Most of these packages are fairly mature now. But the advantage of using a distro is not having to hunt down every little piece yourself. What I like about Mandrake is that "it just works". But it doesn't yet.
I am a relative newcomer to computers (3 1/2 years) Presently running win2000, and about 1 1/2 years experimenting with Linux namely Red Hat7.0, 7.1, 7.3, and 8.0. (I am nearly 68years) In all that time have not been able to setup and run my EPSON Perfection 2450 Photo Scanner (USB) in any Red Hat version despite spending weeks and months trying everything possible. I get Mandrake 9.0, I install it and what do I find ??? The Scanner is already setup and Xsane finds it instantly and 2mins later I achieve my first scan in Linux and a further 2mins later I have scanned a photo into the GIMP. I didn't have to do anything in its setup.
Further, since I have an EPSON Printer Photo Ex, I have always wanted to use the Mtink ink monitoring facility with the printer but again had never been successful in any version of Red Hat. Lo and behold when I open the Gimp there is the Mtink plugin in place and fully operational. It is also selectable in the Configuration -> Printing area.
During the original install it was dead easy to make one of my Windows partitions accessable ( I don't access my "C" drive)so a lot of Photos, Graphics and MP3s in Windows was readily transferable into Mandrake and vice-versa. In Red Hat, setting up such access is a messier procedure. Red Hat 8.0 used an outdated version of Xcdroast and left out the MP3 codec in Xmms Player. No such stupid mistakes by Mandrake.
To the critic that said there was to much to choose from for New Linux starters, all I can say is grow up no matter how old you are. Choice is what a civilised life is all about and too many people are trying to limit our freedom of choice as it is and unfortunately the good old US of A seems to be leading the charge in this area, not the totalitarian states of this world. Just look at the RIAA, MPIAA, Sony, Disney, MicroSoft to name just a few of the worst.
To the Anonymous posters so full of negative criticism, I can only say I have no respect for views expressed by people who hide behind a veil.
Great Work MANDRAKESOFT. Red Hat, Clean up your act and stop behaving so arrogantly like a mini Microsoft but that might be hard considering you too are an American company.
Cheers Mandrake
Further, since I have an EPSON Printer Photo Ex, I have always wanted to use the Mtink ink monitoring facility with the printer but again had never been successful in any version of Red Hat. Lo and behold when I open the Gimp there is the Mtink plugin in place and fully operational. It is also selectable in the Configuration -> Printing area.
During the original install it was dead easy to make one of my Windows partitions accessable ( I don't access my "C" drive)so a lot of Photos, Graphics and MP3s in Windows was readily transferable into Mandrake and vice-versa. In Red Hat, setting up such access is a messier procedure. Red Hat 8.0 used an outdated version of Xcdroast and left out the MP3 codec in Xmms Player. No such stupid mistakes by Mandrake.
To the critic that said there was to much to choose from for New Linux starters, all I can say is grow up no matter how old you are. Choice is what a civilised life is all about and too many people are trying to limit our freedom of choice as it is and unfortunately the good old US of A seems to be leading the charge in this area, not the totalitarian states of this world. Just look at the RIAA, MPIAA, Sony, Disney, MicroSoft to name just a few of the worst.
To the Anonymous posters so full of negative criticism, I can only say I have no respect for views expressed by people who hide behind a veil.
Great Work MANDRAKESOFT. Red Hat, Clean up your act and stop behaving so arrogantly like a mini Microsoft but that might be hard considering you too are an American company.
Cheers Mandrake
blah
Posted by: Anonymous Coward on November 18, 2002 08:33 PMbesides that mandrake 9.0 is ok but when are NVIDIA going to release the RPM's for 9.0?
#