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Mandrake 9.0: It takes two, baby
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January 07, 2003 (8:00:00 AM)
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- by Tina Gasperson -
The first thing I noticed about Mandrake 9.0 Linux is that the goofy cross-eyed penguin is gone. Mandrake is pointing itself in a more sophisticated direction - it's not drab like Red Hat, but elegant and inviting. It looks expensive.
The first thing I noticed about Mandrake 9.0 Linux is that the goofy cross-eyed penguin is gone. Mandrake is pointing itself in a more sophisticated direction - it's not drab like Red Hat, but elegant and inviting. It looks expensive.
Mandrake 9.0 is, in fact, not expensive at all; it's free if you're willing to
take the time to download it and burn your own CD or do a network install. One
thing I can tell you is that buying a set of CDs has become much, much more
convenient than downloading, because MandrakeSoft has come up with an ingenious
little scheme that places much of the expected stuff on the second CD. More
about that later.
The install for Mandrake 9.0 is simple; a given by now, since the past six versions have been getting progessively more intuitive. It recognized everything on my Thinkpad T20. I appreciate not having to fiddle with the display settings. Test. Mangled. Choose different settings. Test. More mangled. Choose other different settings. Test. Ah, finally. No more of that. Defaults all the way. In the visual appeal department, Mandrake has changed the user icons to include beautiful images of flowers and other things (I only really saw the flowers because I like flowers. Now instead of a penguin with yellow ponytails, I am a lovely flower.)
Mandrake 9.0 includes KDE 3.0. KDE has come a long way with this release. It is beautiful to behold, which is important to me, but even more important is the increase in speed. It loads quicker, and KDE apps load quicker. Prior to installing Mandrake 9.0, I ran SuSE 7.3 for at least six months and had switched to GNOME because it was quicker. Maybe it's just because SuSE is a KDE shop, but I found that GNOME was too quirky and non-intuitive for my enjoyment (although I did have a brief stint with GNOME on a Red Hat install that I only kept for about three days). I am very glad to be back with KDE. Oh, and they even changed the dorky orchestral startup sound to something techno and less obtrusive.
A notable inclusion in 9.0 that I haven't seen in any previous releases is the YaST2-like Mandrake Control Center. Much more prominent and convenient to run than the old configuration tool, it provides easy access to all the important administration tasks for hardware, system configuration, and user administration.
Of course, Mandrake 9.0 is LSB (Linux Standards Base) certified as long as you choose to install the LSB modules up front.
Anyway, if you're like me and usually just download the first CD (after all, it's got everything I need), you'll be surprised. I installed it, and started opening up my most-used applications for work - mail, irc, browser, and text editor. The first thing I noticed was that the only mail client on the menu was Evolution. Evolution is fine with me - it is one of those treasure apps I find every now and then that does everything I need it to do and doesn't complain. But where was KMail? It was odd. You just don't expect to see Evolution as the only choice on KDE in Mandrake. It could be part of that move to elegant professionalism I sense.
A quick check of the console revealed that KMail was not even installed. How interesting. Then, to my dismay, I discovered that not only was there a dearth of email clients, but there were NO irc clients at all! Not a good thing for a remote worker whose virtual office is an irc channel on slashnet.org. At least Mozilla was installed (though not on the menu, so newbs are limited to Konqueror), so I could run Chatzilla and show up for work.
Another MIA frequently used app was a simple calculator. There were many other things missing from the first CD - it is definitely barebones, a la Lindows? Bear in mind that I wasn't sure all these missing things were going to be on the second CD, but it was a pretty good bet. So I went back and downloaded it, burned it, and ran an upgrade, packages only. Voila! There's all the "stuff."
Now, when I pull up the menus, they are jam packed with all the familiar items - maybe even more than I am used to, especially under Amusements and Office. Mandrake comes with OpenOffice.org now that StarOffice charges. There was the irc client, there was KMail, there were all the graphics programs - oh yeah, I forgot about those.
And in an effort to appeal to Windows users, there is a new menu element: "What To Do?" Click on this and you'll have choices like "Use the Internet," "Read documentation" (yeah, right), "Enjoy music and video," and "Use office tools."
I've noticed, after using Mandrake 9.0 for a few days, that the era of funky application crashes and X-server misfires seems to be over.. /me crosses fingers really hard. The overall sense is that Mandrake has matured into a tool that anyone could make use of - those familiar with Linux and in need of the advanced capabilities of a "real" distribution, and those who have never used Linux and are coming fresh from a Windows environment. There's nothing to figure out - just point and click and run the applications... as long as you've installed the second CD, that is.
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So... i think that was a really well written article. i just obtained the six download cd's and i couldnt have written a better description of all the improvements to the system, as a slackware user i found the distro slightly too "bate". But as a distrobution slackware can cater for a real baginer or an l33t nixer who just loves a beutifull Xwindows.
I truly enjoy mandrake 9 more than redhat 8.0 because of the little things. Red Hat's update utility is only for those who paid for a copy, while all Mandrake users can use Mandrake's utility for free. Then there is the whole non-existent mp3 support included with red hat.while its readily available in Mandrake. Red Hat's focus on the gnome-like bluecurve turned me off. I really love KDE 3 and believe it to be the best. The instability I saw in Mandrake 8.1 is gone now and it is a fully capable version of linux that I love using.
> Red Hat's update utility is only for those who
> paid for a copy, while all Mandrake users can
> use Mandrake's utility for free.
See https://rhn.redhat.com/preview/index.pxt, particularly the description of the Demo level of service.
> Then there is the whole non-existent mp3 support
> included with red hat.while its readily
> available in Mandrake.
See http://www.redhat.com/advice/speaks_80mm.html
> paid for a copy, while all Mandrake users can
> use Mandrake's utility for free.
See https://rhn.redhat.com/preview/index.pxt, particularly the description of the Demo level of service.
> Then there is the whole non-existent mp3 support
> included with red hat.while its readily
> available in Mandrake.
See http://www.redhat.com/advice/speaks_80mm.html
Meanwhile Mandrakesoft is broke and begging its users for a bone while Red Hat is in the black. Yes, it might be a pain to have to register for *convient* updates (their still free to download and install manually) but hey - Red Hat is a company. If Mandrake 9 is as smooth as everyone says maybe I'll give it a shot - the last time I used Mandrake it felt very...rushed and unstable.
the reason for that is that when mandrakesoft started getting veture capital the people they got the money from insited on a new set of people takeing the lead. and those people made a bad course correction on what mandrakesoft wassuppose to do, costing them a lot of money (im sure they had been in the black alongside red hat if not) and they are now fighting theyre way out of the hole.
Ahem.
Even in your Red Hat 8.0 download edition, you are entitled to use for free up2date on one computer.
Nevertheless, MDK 9.0 is very sweet. gcc 3.2, the new KDE 3.0.3 and XFree86 all make it for a snappier experience (comparing with MDK 8.2).
RedHat 8.0, with same gcc 3.2, KDE 3.0.3 and XFree86, it's also very fast.
One thing about MDK 9.0 that gives me mixed feelings: urpmi / rpmdrake:
- Now its waaaaaaaay faster than in MDK 8.2
- But the GUI version it's waaay less useful: 3 different apps? One for source management, one for installs and one for uninstalls? This is nuts!
So I would like to see on MDK 9.1 the old (MDK 8.2) GUI interface with the new (MDK 9.0) backend (urpmi).
Also, a thingy that worries me: where are my screensavers on MDK 9.0?
Regards,
Even in your Red Hat 8.0 download edition, you are entitled to use for free up2date on one computer.
Nevertheless, MDK 9.0 is very sweet. gcc 3.2, the new KDE 3.0.3 and XFree86 all make it for a snappier experience (comparing with MDK 8.2).
RedHat 8.0, with same gcc 3.2, KDE 3.0.3 and XFree86, it's also very fast.
One thing about MDK 9.0 that gives me mixed feelings: urpmi / rpmdrake:
- Now its waaaaaaaay faster than in MDK 8.2
- But the GUI version it's waaay less useful: 3 different apps? One for source management, one for installs and one for uninstalls? This is nuts!
So I would like to see on MDK 9.1 the old (MDK 8.2) GUI interface with the new (MDK 9.0) backend (urpmi).
Also, a thingy that worries me: where are my screensavers on MDK 9.0?
Regards,
I agree totally about the installer and screensavers!
One last time about the update utility with RH8 -- you don't need to use it.
1. go to http://freshrpms.net
2. download apt. Install.
3. type: apt-get update, apt-get upgrade
That's it. you are now up-to-date. And you didn't have to pay anyone anything (cheapskates..)
1. go to http://freshrpms.net
2. download apt. Install.
3. type: apt-get update, apt-get upgrade
That's it. you are now up-to-date. And you didn't have to pay anyone anything (cheapskates..)
1<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.Go to
http://ftp.ibiblio.org/pub/Linux/distributions/co<nobr>n<wbr></nobr> trib/texstar/linux/distributions/mandrake/9.0/rpm<nobr>s<wbr></nobr> /
2. download apt and apt-devel, install as root (su)
# rpm -i apt*
3. as root type
# cat<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/etc/apt/sources.list
4. then type
# apt-get update and next apt-get -f install
5. type
# apt-get upgrade
Now You are up-to-date Mandrake for free
6. If You like gui type
# apt-get install synaptic and run synaptic
http://ftp.ibiblio.org/pub/Linux/distributions/co<nobr>n<wbr></nobr> trib/texstar/linux/distributions/mandrake/9.0/rpm<nobr>s<wbr></nobr> /
2. download apt and apt-devel, install as root (su)
# rpm -i apt*
3. as root type
# cat<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/etc/apt/sources.list
4. then type
# apt-get update and next apt-get -f install
5. type
# apt-get upgrade
Now You are up-to-date Mandrake for free
6. If You like gui type
# apt-get install synaptic and run synaptic
or just do something of the same with mdk's urpmi tool (a tool that have been the backbone of mandrake's distro for a long time now) and do the same, or just use the gui update utility...
I'm a RH 8.0 user, and regarding the update issue, let's not forget about Ximian's Red Carpet. I prefer it to RH's up2date and use it to keep two boxes in my home up to date. It's easy to install, simple to use, and free.
there's nothing stopping you using kde in redhat 8.0. i've been playing with it this week (on a t20 just like tina's, interestingly). it's much snappier than gnome (less stable for me), and let's not forget that bluecurve is just a theme. you can get rid of it in a couple of clicks (i had keramik and translucent menus within 5 minutes, and they then applied to all the gnome apps i ran under kde). i marvelled at kword starting up in two seconds, as opposed to the twenty odd for oowriter (first run, that is). i think it'll take another couple of releases before kde and gnome really play well together on redhat 8.*, though.
You do NOT have to pay for a subscription to Red Hat's services in order to use the update daemon--I downloaded the ISOs, installed the OS, and am entitled to a basic subscription to the Red Hat network--all free of charge. As far as the non-existent mp3 support everyone keeps knocking Red Hat for, I laugh at how frivolous Linux users sound complaining they have to download an rpm from xmms that's less than 1 meg and installs in seconds. Same goes for kernel support of ntfs, which is not natively provided by Red Hat but for which rpms exist that are small and easy to install (ntfs-linux). Purists may complain that it's the principle of the matter; I would say they're being petty, considering most Linux users expect to spend a certain amount of time setting up their systems. As far as MDK 9 goes, I installed it before Red Hat and was sorely disappointed. For starters, the installation scrambled my video card<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/monitor settings (just like 8.2 did), and when I finally did get X to work, none of the open office programs would launch. After much fiddling and reinstalling, I finally gave up. Mandrake seems to have a nasty habit of including a ridiculous amount of software that they haven't bothered to properly configure for their system, and that crashes upon launch. Quantity, not quality, I suppose. I for one am sold on Red Hat; the Blue Curve theme is delicious, the system is well-supported, and everything that should work does.
I order my Mandrake disks from a cool re-distributor who resides in Manatoba (that's in Canada, FYI), for $5. (CAN) each, postage-paid which includes free-for-life online help. This saves me download headaches and supports the fine efforts of a great guy!
Gnome on Mandrake 8.2 was a mess. But on v.9.0 it has been running very well. I even use Kmail in Gnome with great success.
I don't see this **need 2 discs* to be an issue. Even if I chose to download/burn, it would be worth the trouble. But that's just me - crazy old geek - what should you expect...
Gnome on Mandrake 8.2 was a mess. But on v.9.0 it has been running very well. I even use Kmail in Gnome with great success.
I don't see this **need 2 discs* to be an issue. Even if I chose to download/burn, it would be worth the trouble. But that's just me - crazy old geek - what should you expect...
Thanks for pointing out where "Manatoba" is - because otherwise I'd never have known you were referring to "Manitoba".
would it be ok if we called you "madcris", since we're too lazy to bother figuring out how your name was spelled?
with love,
a Canadian resident.
would it be ok if we called you "madcris", since we're too lazy to bother figuring out how your name was spelled?
with love,
a Canadian resident.
Sorry about the spelling - arthritic fingers and too much in a hurry to catch all mistakes - I know, no excuse.
I live in New Brunswick - even less an excuse to be sloppy.
Thanks for the wakeup call...
I live in New Brunswick - even less an excuse to be sloppy.
Thanks for the wakeup call...
Ah, Canadian sarcasm parallels its beer, just a bit better and a bit more potent. Take it easy on the newbie from newbie, he was speaking to an American audience, most of whom really don't know where Manitoba is, let alone Minnesota.
Slackware 0wnz!
OK, I tried for months to get Mandrake 8.2 to install on a 166 Pentium system that worked fine with Mandrake 6.5, 7.0, 7.1, 7.2, and 8.0. I got deplist errors. Their patch didn't help. I see now that the same patch and repair job is on the recent release... so will this one work on my antique, or do I have to either soldier on with 8.0 or retire the beast to run Windows 98?
publisher@thegreenbayweb.com
publisher@thegreenbayweb.com
I had problems with Mandrake's distro, too. On 7.2, it wouldn't boot, and 9.0 failed while formatting my hard drive. If Mandrake doesn't work, I'd suggest another distro.
are you guys running antique systems? Mdk says its optomised for Modern hardware... i dont think p166 or p11 200s fall into that catagory
And it failed while formatting my hard drive. So now I'm running SuSE 8.1.
oh come on. did it fail to recognize and
set up your hard drive or are u just makin
stuff up so u can have something negative
to say.
i just got me two ibm z15 scsi drives with
the lsi controller and it was my first attempt
at scsi with Mandrake. i left my older drives
connected and everything worked.
come on. take that chip off your shoulder
and install Mandrake.
Mandrake, Linux for the people.
No, I have nothing against Mandrake. Actually, I like Mandrake as a distro from what I've heard, but when I went to install it, it got to formatting, waited a few minutes, and spit up an error saying it couldn't format the drive.
what kind of drive did u try to install
it on, how is the drive connected slave
or master .
if u get the time go to the google groups
and find alt.os.linux.mandrake
there are hundreds of people there that will
help u over any bumps u get.
it on, how is the drive connected slave
or master .
if u get the time go to the google groups
and find alt.os.linux.mandrake
there are hundreds of people there that will
help u over any bumps u get.
It failed to install on a K62-400 system with a 13.6 GB WD drive that I had. Mandrake 9.0 said it could not partition the drive (for a dual boot system). I had to partition the drive manually using Partition Magic. Then when it did install it did not create a swap partition. Needless to say, performance was 10% of what it should have been.
An earlier install on a Presario laptop was flawless. A later install on a Athlon 1700 XP was flawless.
An earlier install on a Presario laptop was flawless. A later install on a Athlon 1700 XP was flawless.
I bet you had an NTFS partition (Windows NT,
2000, or XP), right? None of the Linux
distros, as far as I know, can resize an
NTFS partition -- Partition Magic is the only
way I know of to do it.
-- Bill
2000, or XP), right? None of the Linux
distros, as far as I know, can resize an
NTFS partition -- Partition Magic is the only
way I know of to do it.
-- Bill
Good article Tina..., short and 2 the point. I have liked mandrake since I wrote an ExtremeTech article about it (Glanz). I find it the easiest distro for networking and connection sharing. In other words, the user isn't required to have the knowledge of a Google network administrator to share a connection with his kids (a la RedHat or Debian or FreeBSD). Even Gnome works better on Mandrake than on RedHat. Sometimes I believe that RH doesn't give a ***t about all the RH-specific glitches that it causes for the Gnome environment with its screwed installation of RPM's minus dependencies. This problem is seldom encountered in Mandrake. All the other WM's are there also: Xfce, Blackbox, Fluxbox, Enlightenment, WindowMaker, IceWM, etc..... and they all smoke.
It's basically an article about how "nice" Mandrake is, which most people knew already from all the reviews published immediately after it's release.
The first poster is right - I didn't get anything at all out of reading this article.
The first poster is right - I didn't get anything at all out of reading this article.
Mandrake 9 has been out since September 25. Today is January 7. Do we really need another Mandrake review?
By the way, the cross-eyed penguin is Connectiva.
By the way, the cross-eyed penguin is Connectiva.
Yes
Well, I have to say that even though I've written a Mandrake 9.0 review myself, this review brought out some things that I did not mention in my review, which I wrote a few months ago for Extreme Tech. So I don't mind seeing another review at all, I thought this one was well done.
Why Not? I've got Yahoo blocked though......
Hi, with all the latest sound-chips, Alsa drivers is a must. MDK9.0 comes with alsa suppot and it works for me.(it's always been like this afaik)
all the basic font installation was easy since 8.x times with fontdrake. sharing the internet is few clicks away. so are most of the tasks. I don't want to tweak my computer until i get tried, instead i want to work productively from the word GO.
all the basic font installation was easy since 8.x times with fontdrake. sharing the internet is few clicks away. so are most of the tasks. I don't want to tweak my computer until i get tried, instead i want to work productively from the word GO.
Mandrake 9 looks expensive and not drab like redhat? What the hell are you talknig about airhead.. have u seen redhat 8? Mandrake is disorganized crap. and all they do is whine about more money needed.
Bluecurve is a decent-looking theme and set of icons, but there's no denying it's not very exciting to look at. 'Uninspiring' is probably the best description. It's not going to make the average user drool or make ripples through the graphic and art community in the same way that XP and particularly MacOS X's Aqua has.
Actually it reminds me quite a lot of Windows 2000, with maybe a bit of CDE thrown in. Competent, professional, but unexciting and perhaps a little dated.
This is of course exactly what Red Hat are trying to do: competent, professional, but unexciting spells corporate, which is exactly the market RH is going after with Bluecurve.
Actually it reminds me quite a lot of Windows 2000, with maybe a bit of CDE thrown in. Competent, professional, but unexciting and perhaps a little dated.
This is of course exactly what Red Hat are trying to do: competent, professional, but unexciting spells corporate, which is exactly the market RH is going after with Bluecurve.
isnt it just amazing that red hate people
are always out there waiting to trash
anything written about Mandrake. fascinating.
just fascinating.
are always out there waiting to trash
anything written about Mandrake. fascinating.
just fascinating.
RED Hat people love to make lame statements about Mandrake being based on RED HAT, making it a non distro, BUT! they never remember the FACT that RED HAT is based on SLackware.
to technically, red hat and mandrake are based on SLACK.....
to technically, red hat and mandrake are based on SLACK.....
I don't know what all these redhat haters are all talking about, but I have used both distros, and all I can say is that Mandrake still looks UGLY.... Not only that, but its totally biased towards KDE, defaulting to the ugly and annoying kdm and kde when I didn't want it. What is so wrong with gnome and kde looking the same??? I think its great!!! I am so sick and tired of hearing people bashing the bluecurve theme, I mean, there are quite a few other themes available for easy installation. And as for the mp3 codec issue... WHO CARES!!!!! It takes LIKE 2 RPMs to fix that "problem". Also, the NTFS driver IS EXPERIMENTAL, who would want just "read" access. As far as I am concerned, RedHat is no perfect distro, but I far and away prefer it over Mandrake. The only thing that I really like about Mandrake is its intuitive ics (masquerading I think) wizard.
the initial install of Mandrake can use
a little sprucing up. this is where i went
to do just that
ftp://ftp.ibiblio.org/pub/Linux/distributions/con<nobr>t<wbr></nobr> rib/texstar/linux/distributions/mandrake/9.0/rpms
go here and instal texstars rpms for
kermaik and liquid icons and just cruise
the page for wallpapers and more.
if u have a fast connection u can download
crystal icons
keramik
kfiresaver
mosfets liquid
noia icons and
wall paper
it wont take long to download this stuff and
then u will have one of the greatest looking
desktops there is at the moment.
check it out.
a little sprucing up. this is where i went
to do just that
ftp://ftp.ibiblio.org/pub/Linux/distributions/con<nobr>t<wbr></nobr> rib/texstar/linux/distributions/mandrake/9.0/rpms
go here and instal texstars rpms for
kermaik and liquid icons and just cruise
the page for wallpapers and more.
if u have a fast connection u can download
crystal icons
keramik
kfiresaver
mosfets liquid
noia icons and
wall paper
it wont take long to download this stuff and
then u will have one of the greatest looking
desktops there is at the moment.
check it out.
gdm is a much better login screen than kdm and w/ the new look you really can't tell if it gtk or qt based.. so why in hell is mandrake still using kde? I don't know....
cough cough!
that should read:
so why in hell is mandrake still using (was kde) kdm? I don't know....
that should read:
so why in hell is mandrake still using (was kde) kdm? I don't know....
I don't believe that you actually installed Mandrake 9
I just finished installing it a couple minutes ago and I was twice given the opportunity to select Gnome as my desktop (during the install and in the 'first time' wizard)<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... and declined both times.
You are blaming Mandrake for choices you made.
I just finished installing it a couple minutes ago and I was twice given the opportunity to select Gnome as my desktop (during the install and in the 'first time' wizard)<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... and declined both times.
You are blaming Mandrake for choices you made.
>Not only that, but its totally biased towards >KDE, defaulting to the ugly and annoying kdm and >kde when I didn't want it.
Better than having RedHat lobotomise KDE and call it "Bluecurve".
>I am so sick and tired of hearing people bashing >the bluecurve theme, I mean, there are quite a >few other themes available for easy installation.
And yet you bash KDE for the same reason. Nice logic.
>I think its great!!!
Nobody cares what you think.
Better than having RedHat lobotomise KDE and call it "Bluecurve".
>I am so sick and tired of hearing people bashing >the bluecurve theme, I mean, there are quite a >few other themes available for easy installation.
And yet you bash KDE for the same reason. Nice logic.
>I think its great!!!
Nobody cares what you think.
This flaw is their implementation of X11. If you scroll websites, all text becomes mangled and unreadable. Even the graphics of the windows themselves are all broken and uneven. X11 in Makdrake 9 is truly flawed and I hope they fix this soon. No one will wants to buy 9.1 if this flaw still exists. Heck, I'm considering moving back to MDK 8.2 because it's so bad.
The problem must be limited to you. I have no such difficulties with my installation of Mdk9.
Me neither. No probs for me at all.
and to think i have been running it since 4 days after release without seeing this!<nobr> <wbr></nobr>....wait, i still don't. maybe this is a user error?
I have seen this as well. Although I thought I think it is a mozilla issue. I thought I had this problem with 8.2 and a mozilla beta. It is rather uncommon, and when it happens, I hit ctrl-a followed by a mouse click and the world is right again.
Sounds like a problem with the video driver - have you got a nVidia graphics card by any chance?
Mandrake's webpage says you'll, "always be on the edge of security" with their product. Sheesh. I'd like to actually BE secure, but maybe that's just me.
Maybe it's time to throw out your computer and go live in a remote location in Alaska. Then you have absolute security no computer hacker will get to you.
Jo
Jo
They're French, so excuse the poor translation. You use Lindows. What's your excuse?
Tina, oooohs and aaawwwsss over Mandrake having a SECOND CD!!! OOhhhhhhh
Lindows' Click-N-Run is a much superior answer. I get to pick and choose what I want, and am not limited to just what will fit on one, soon-to-be obsolete CD.
Mark F
Lindows' Click-N-Run is a much superior answer. I get to pick and choose what I want, and am not limited to just what will fit on one, soon-to-be obsolete CD.
Mark F
... personally I prefer a gnarled root, but that just me.
so let me get this straight, i can get mandrake, and all the software free, or choose to support them (i do) and join the club and get 2 full versions plus other benifits for $60, or i can run as root with lindows and pay $100 for free software.
crack. you are smoking crack.
crack. you are smoking crack.
>>i can get mandrake, and all the software free
Indeed, and when Mandrake go out of business, maybe you'll understand why you ought to have paid a little more.....
Indeed, and when Mandrake go out of business, maybe you'll understand why you ought to have paid a little more.....
>> Indeed, and when Mandrake go out of business, maybe you'll understand why you ought to have paid a little more.....
Or spend less and get a real distro like Debian that has no chance of going out of business. And happens to be the distro your precious Lindows raped... Robertson is a Gates wannabe.
Or spend less and get a real distro like Debian that has no chance of going out of business. And happens to be the distro your precious Lindows raped... Robertson is a Gates wannabe.
Mandrake HAS a Click n' Run style interface. I just wish they would start to advertise it. If you do a network install it's automatically set-up, if not then it's just a few simple clicks away. Go-to http://www.zarb.org/~nanardon/ for more information.
It contains all the GPL apps included in Mandrake and many contributed applications plus DVD playing software etc from plf, all absolutely FREE. In addition if you join Mandrake Club you can "Click n Run" Commercial applications like Star Office as well.
(Deno (MandrakeClub maestro) I'm sure you read these pages, Mandrake HAVE to do something about this, I keep reading in magazines about Lindows "innovative" Click n Run for a "reasonable" $60.)
It contains all the GPL apps included in Mandrake and many contributed applications plus DVD playing software etc from plf, all absolutely FREE. In addition if you join Mandrake Club you can "Click n Run" Commercial applications like Star Office as well.
(Deno (MandrakeClub maestro) I'm sure you read these pages, Mandrake HAVE to do something about this, I keep reading in magazines about Lindows "innovative" Click n Run for a "reasonable" $60.)
They go up to seven even!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! But two up to five is easier to understand for finger mathematicians. Now, at the University level we get into two hands, and later, even feet are used.
So, there is one born every minute.
You can pay your $100 a year for a set of apps that everyone else can get for free from SourceForge.
Also, the free updates from Mandrake make a lot more sense too. So, how again does the Click'nRun provide any value? Oh yeah, it makes Michael Robertson richer and you more of a sucker.
You can pay your $100 a year for a set of apps that everyone else can get for free from SourceForge.
Also, the free updates from Mandrake make a lot more sense too. So, how again does the Click'nRun provide any value? Oh yeah, it makes Michael Robertson richer and you more of a sucker.
Click-N-Run is superior? You mean that paying for something that you could get for free is superiority?
Why aren't you running Windows? You can pay heaps for 3rd rate Microsoft software if you run Windows.
Why aren't you running Windows? You can pay heaps for 3rd rate Microsoft software if you run Windows.
Hi Kraig !
After having spoiled pclinuxonline.com with your Lindows ass-licking style and then be banned from that site, you've decided to spoil that site too ?
Time to go to bed, Craig !
After having spoiled pclinuxonline.com with your Lindows ass-licking style and then be banned from that site, you've decided to spoil that site too ?
Time to go to bed, Craig !
I'll keep "FREE" RH8.0 Apt and Synaptic. After all if you look at Lindows update software it is Debians Apt as well. I loved Debian for apt but went back to RH cause I knew where stuff was.
Check out Apt for RedHat once installed "apt-get install synaptic" if you need the GUI updater software that is.
http://apt.freshrpms.net/
Easy and well FREE!
-skeep
Check out Apt for RedHat once installed "apt-get install synaptic" if you need the GUI updater software that is.
http://apt.freshrpms.net/
Easy and well FREE!
-skeep
Excuse me for mentioning it, but you aren't very smart, are you? It also has a third CD in the FREE download version and 7 in the Powerpack. I got the Powerpack for $45 mail order<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... well under the price of Lindows and its inherently broken design.
Free updates for ever and as much additional free software as you have HD space sort of round things out for me. Too bad you are locked into a subscription thingy.
Maybe you should buy another computer and install a real OS on it.
Free updates for ever and as much additional free software as you have HD space sort of round things out for me. Too bad you are locked into a subscription thingy.
Maybe you should buy another computer and install a real OS on it.
You: oO(I just bought Lindows and have a trackball and I sent back the mousepad because when I tried to push the little trackball around it stuck in one place and it must be the mousepad. I'll use Click-N-Run to buy a new one. Man, I miss Windows but I try to be l336 lin[_]x g33x0r!)
Me: Bet you bought your computer at WalMart.com, and passed over the preinstalled Mandrake stuff for it. Tool.
Me: Bet you bought your computer at WalMart.com, and passed over the preinstalled Mandrake stuff for it. Tool.
This looks like the most interesting part of the entire Version!
Linux has obviously made inroads into Web Server Software but it could easily displace Win2k in a bunch of small businesses if it made it easy to share files between Windows boxes.
Anyone know if RH 8.1 is going to do similar things, Samba-wise?
Linux has obviously made inroads into Web Server Software but it could easily displace Win2k in a bunch of small businesses if it made it easy to share files between Windows boxes.
Anyone know if RH 8.1 is going to do similar things, Samba-wise?
Two of my favorites touches on KDE are the Kill button, which I had to manually put on the desktop in this version of Mandrake, and the Show Desktop icon on the panel that unclutters your workspace in a jiffy.
The kill button is pointless. You can use ctrl-alt-esc . And you DO know it often doesn´t kill the culprit, right?
I've been using Mandrake 9.0 since the very first beta test releases came out, and now I'm using it from the DVD released version, but I hadn't noticed some of the things you mentioned because I usually perform an "Expert Mode" installation rather than the "Recommended Mode" installation. Based on your comments, I can see that both Mandrake and Red Hat have made a move toward simplifying and standardizing on some of the favorite and most familiar applications in their default installations, rather than providing the entire kitchen sink, as they've done in the past.
I think that this is a terrific move, and definitely a step in the right direction.
What's more, with Mandrake, (particularly now that I've seen the flexibility of their installation choices), you can have it either way.
I wrote a review of Mandrake 9.0 at Extreme Tech a few months ago, but now I'm even more convinced than before that it is the leading desktop distro of the major vendors. (I just hope the company remains solvent this year).
At the same time, I still have to bring up another desktop system that I now like enough that it has become my primary desktop environment: Lycoris Desktop/LX. I used to use Mandrake more than anything else, but since I started using Desktop/LX, it now gets the most desktop usage. Why? Excellent user interface design, ease of use and simplicity. Even though I'm an experienced user, I like Desktop/LX for every day desktop tasks, so it's now my #1 choice for the desktop.
I think that this is a terrific move, and definitely a step in the right direction.
What's more, with Mandrake, (particularly now that I've seen the flexibility of their installation choices), you can have it either way.
I wrote a review of Mandrake 9.0 at Extreme Tech a few months ago, but now I'm even more convinced than before that it is the leading desktop distro of the major vendors. (I just hope the company remains solvent this year).
At the same time, I still have to bring up another desktop system that I now like enough that it has become my primary desktop environment: Lycoris Desktop/LX. I used to use Mandrake more than anything else, but since I started using Desktop/LX, it now gets the most desktop usage. Why? Excellent user interface design, ease of use and simplicity. Even though I'm an experienced user, I like Desktop/LX for every day desktop tasks, so it's now my #1 choice for the desktop.
Never trust a guy that wears a red leather hat. It's not the color that bothers me, it's the 1,843 moles he killed, skinned, and tanned to make the hat.:)
Will you please quit selling Lycoris you ol' Unix freak!!!!!!
Will you please quit selling Lycoris you ol' Unix freak!!!!!!
Tina Gasperson = scenewhore
If mandrake was so great why are they begging for money every year. Wow the installer looks polished... man that'll kill windows and RedHat! Suprised she didn't complain about Nvidia drivers not coming with the distro.
lame stupid review.
If mandrake was so great why are they begging for money every year. Wow the installer looks polished... man that'll kill windows and RedHat! Suprised she didn't complain about Nvidia drivers not coming with the distro.
lame stupid review.
On the contrary, your illustrious twerpiness! It was a fine artile... short and sweet. I know it was OK because I liked it and you didn't.
It was not only a good "artile", but a good article too!
yes it would be nice if the people would
be a little more civil towards one another.
i dont it interesting tht so many people
that prefer red hate, are the mean nasty
people that say almost anything against
people.
fascinating
...must be the leather... the killing of all those moles to make those RedHats..... Besides, the RedHat Honcho wears a red leather tie also. YUK!!!!<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...a suit, sort of.... Jacques Lemarois of Mandrake is devoted to FreeSoft and Open Source. He likes the "Community" philosophy as expounded by the Debian Social Contract. Now the "Red Sector" believes in that nebulous "business community" ethic, determined by $$$$$$$.... Red Hat is very expensive indeed on the pro subscription security side. Mandrake is not as expensive. They both offer the same software but with the difference that Mandrake is interested in the desktop user. Red Hat says they are, but I believe it is a "rarified" and rich desktop user who doesn't mind endelessly sharing personal information and just loves Red Hat style Gnome glitches. Well, that was my 2 cents!<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)
if they'd put us back to work, alot of the hate would pass
If you are not going to be polite, courteous and professional in your critique, then please do not leave a comment. I am sure Tina was not intending on a thorough review; besides, comments like yours detract from the Linux community and do not help individuals such as myself in honestly evaluating a Linux distribution. I am considered a newbie and appreciate everyone's honest opinion, including yours if it is properly posted.
If Mandrake isn't so great then why couldn't you come up with a better argument?
Man, Newsforge is starting to become like slashdot, full of angry people spouting insults. Maybe these anonymous poster's are actually Microsoft employees trying to create discord in the Linux community.
Man, Newsforge is starting to become like slashdot, full of angry people spouting insults. Maybe these anonymous poster's are actually Microsoft employees trying to create discord in the Linux community.
i think that some of the nasty posters
are red hate people, of course unwilling
to disclose who they are.
if u want to follow the microsoft of Linux
by all means dont me stop u, but on the
other hand when it comes time for red hate
to burn u dont complain, and please dont
shout that u didnt know better because i
just told ya.
oh yes oh yes
rolling on the floor
These people can't work for Microsoft; they're too stupid to do the soul-sacrifice ritual properly.. They botched it and now have to use Lindows as a penance.
ahh...the critic who offers nothing in return. how very original.
what does mandrake's business sense, or lack thereof, have to do with the quality of their distribution?
thanks for your insight.
what does mandrake's business sense, or lack thereof, have to do with the quality of their distribution?
thanks for your insight.
The Mandrake apps, all run from the Mandrake Control Center, are all still very rough and nonuniform.
Mandrake needs to implement rigorously followed development guidelines and standards for their GUI development. The Mandrake apps are still all very amateurish.
Desktop LX and RedHat have nearly caught Mandrake and will probably leave it behind in the near future.
Mandrake doesn't get the idea that the development requirements for assembling a linux distro versus a professionally appearing group of GUI applications are two very different things.
They are aware of the polishing necessary to get the GUI operate more intuitively and are really working on it.You have to admit, networking was never easier.... no floppyesque transfers "a la XP" to get things up. Don't forget that "catching up" is hard to do because Mandrake is also at work, and not the least bit discouraged.
I've run Mandrake 9 since it's release as my main desktop 18 hours daily, and I haven't really had any problems that are distribution specific. While I prefer the configurability of Sawfish, I'm getting used to Metacity. The menu editing capability is great. Galeon crashes every now and then (strangely, usually when I'm reading OS News), but its not a big deal. Good distribution for a switcher using supported hardware.
Yes, Mandrake 9.0 has been around for some time now, I've been using it for months. But to all the people complaining about writing a review of it, maybe they haven't noticed that reviews are always being written about Linux distro's. The more people review Linux, the more publicity Linux gets. The more reviews there are the more diverse opinions are available for people to see, hopefully then they'll decide to give Linux a try.
Mandrake needs some publicity, they've done a darn good job for usability. Rather than cloning Windows like some distro's, Mandrake have designed things themselves and aren't scared to make big changes if they think it will help usability. Mandrake also focus on the free side of Linux.
I've tried plenty of distro's, but I stick with Mandrake every time. Mandrake is great to handle, it feels good and has been a very popular choice for many over the past few years.
With the help of this review, people will know what to expect with Mandrake, and hopefully people will check it out. Surely, as Linux lovers, we want to see people checking out Linux?
Mandrake needs some publicity, they've done a darn good job for usability. Rather than cloning Windows like some distro's, Mandrake have designed things themselves and aren't scared to make big changes if they think it will help usability. Mandrake also focus on the free side of Linux.
I've tried plenty of distro's, but I stick with Mandrake every time. Mandrake is great to handle, it feels good and has been a very popular choice for many over the past few years.
With the help of this review, people will know what to expect with Mandrake, and hopefully people will check it out. Surely, as Linux lovers, we want to see people checking out Linux?
Some of you need to seriously chill out. It's funny to me how the rudest people of all always tend to be logged in as "Anonymous". Yes Mandrake has its flaws, but so does every other Distro (including RedHat, Debian and SuSE). that doesn't mean that someone can't express their opinions in a non-offensive way without getting their head bitten off just cause a bunch of immature assholes come online with the Distrobution "God Complex". That's going to be the downfall of the Linux revoloution: people being ignorant and intolerant about other distros and desktop environments other than the one they use, and companies such as Lindows and Lycoris selling free software. I'm sorry but if they didn't actually WRITE a single line of code, I have a serious problem with them charging for it. Changing the icons and menus of KDE or OpenOffice does not constitute a serious modification, so what the hell are they charging for ?
Anyways, instead of cheap insults, next time you dissagree how about you list the faults of the system you are trying to attack and list the ways they are fixed in the one you use. You'll get more attention and more respect that way. And to think, people WONDER why I don't particualy care for the Windows crowd of average immature users switching to Linux...
Anyways, instead of cheap insults, next time you dissagree how about you list the faults of the system you are trying to attack and list the ways they are fixed in the one you use. You'll get more attention and more respect that way. And to think, people WONDER why I don't particualy care for the Windows crowd of average immature users switching to Linux...
Right on. Different strokes. Different folks
SUSE 8 didn't pick up my hardware as easily as Mandrake 8.2 and 9.0 and I like Mandrake's overall layout better so I have stayed with the Drake.
there are other distros I could (and may) try but I'd have to think up a good reason first.
I'm on this thing 14-16 hours most days and for Me - Mandrake and KDE "just works" consistently.
One thing that migtht be helpful in discussion is an ongoing list of hardware that people have had difficulties with under various distros
(probably already out there).
Drake 9 is rock solid on my desktop box and found everything correctly up front -- SUSE didn't -- (though I always use "expert install" anyway).
A lot of this seems like the old Ford vs Chevy or us vs them High School arguments have sloughed over into the digital age and found a new home.
Do yourselves a favor - dump them.
Use what suits "your" style and box best! that's part of what this whole movement is about. We can be united in diversity if we really want to.
Open Source Rules! Play the game with any name ya want.
SUSE 8 didn't pick up my hardware as easily as Mandrake 8.2 and 9.0 and I like Mandrake's overall layout better so I have stayed with the Drake.
there are other distros I could (and may) try but I'd have to think up a good reason first.
I'm on this thing 14-16 hours most days and for Me - Mandrake and KDE "just works" consistently.
One thing that migtht be helpful in discussion is an ongoing list of hardware that people have had difficulties with under various distros
(probably already out there).
Drake 9 is rock solid on my desktop box and found everything correctly up front -- SUSE didn't -- (though I always use "expert install" anyway).
A lot of this seems like the old Ford vs Chevy or us vs them High School arguments have sloughed over into the digital age and found a new home.
Do yourselves a favor - dump them.
Use what suits "your" style and box best! that's part of what this whole movement is about. We can be united in diversity if we really want to.
Open Source Rules! Play the game with any name ya want.
Can't we all just get along?
Mandrake for my laptop.
FreeBSD for my file server.
Mac OSX for my graphics.
Windows for the masochist.
Mandrake for my laptop.
FreeBSD for my file server.
Mac OSX for my graphics.
Windows for the masochist.
drake... give me a BREAK
Lame noobish rip off of Red Hat.
Stick with windows if you can't figure out Red Hat.
K thanx
Lame noobish rip off of Red Hat.
Stick with windows if you can't figure out Red Hat.
K thanx
First of all, it was RedHat that ripped off KDE and went to the single desktop environment so it can appear "easier to use". Secondly, you make the statement "can't figure out RedHat", as if RedHat is on the same level as Debian or Slackware Linux - and I'm running RedHat 7.3 so I know...
Judging by your response, you use Linux because it makes you feel superior. You appear to like the 'hacker' status that using Linux is associated with.
Anybody who says "Stick with windows if you can't figure out Red Hat" obviously doesn't care about Linux or Open Source.
Anybody who says "Stick with windows if you can't figure out Red Hat" obviously doesn't care about Linux or Open Source.
I'll admit that I have serious issues with Mandrake, and will never again use it, but this little post of mine here applies to nearly all Linux distributions out there today.
Multiple cd installs SUCK!
If one wants or needs to put out so much software, it can at least be broken up in a more meaningful fashion...
For example, base system, desktop, web browser, email, office suite on cd #1, server software on cd #2, and development software on cd #3.
It bothers me (and most people I talk to about it) greatly that in general two, and in some (not uncommon) situations all three cds are needed to install a working system that does everything one wants.
To be fair, it is very nice to have so much software available "out of the box", but a better organization of this software is needed in my humble opinion. On top of a more friendly experience, it could seriously cut down on bandwidth, if you only need the first or even two of the cds.
Just a thought.
Multiple cd installs SUCK!
If one wants or needs to put out so much software, it can at least be broken up in a more meaningful fashion...
For example, base system, desktop, web browser, email, office suite on cd #1, server software on cd #2, and development software on cd #3.
It bothers me (and most people I talk to about it) greatly that in general two, and in some (not uncommon) situations all three cds are needed to install a working system that does everything one wants.
To be fair, it is very nice to have so much software available "out of the box", but a better organization of this software is needed in my humble opinion. On top of a more friendly experience, it could seriously cut down on bandwidth, if you only need the first or even two of the cds.
Just a thought.
I think its tops that Mandrake have put together a collection of apps that work with Mandrake and integrated them into the install because i hate mucking around installing & especially finding software that suits my needs and runs in Linux. Its so nice that the installation does this for you.
Actually smart-ass, I do have a dvd reader, and a broadband connection. My concern is for all those people who don't.
It's easy to forget that not everybody has all the same wonderful toys as do you and I.
It's easy to forget that not everybody has all the same wonderful toys as do you and I.
I can't believe that you even consider multiple CDs to be an issue. How long have you be using a computer? Even DOS came on multiple diskettes. Windows 3.1 came on 13 diskettes.
If bandwidth is the issue (and bandwidth is so cheap today), don't be so cheap. Buy the distro from Mandrakesoft.
If bandwidth is the issue (and bandwidth is so cheap today), don't be so cheap. Buy the distro from Mandrakesoft.
I'd hate to download ISO's using a dial up connection. Convince a wealthy family member to get a broadband connection or use a friends. Better yet, buy a boxed set.
I bought the Mandrake Powerpack Subscription, beginning with 8.2. Mandrake mailed me the 9.0 powerpack subscription CD set from Paris, France. I wanted to find if there were serious issues affecting my system, before attempting to install.
Last night, I decided to clean install 9.0 Powerpack. Much to my dismay, and only after I had formatted all linux partitions, I found that it refused to clean install: Base installation package not found! Nowhere in the info at mandrakestore, did it mention that you would be sent upgrade only CD set. I sent off a strongly worded email to mandrakesoft and went to bed: too tired to redo everything.
This morning, I did a minimal recommended install of 8.2 Powerpack, then hoping it would work, did the upgrade (I know better than to use MS Windoze version upgrades). Much to my surprise, it WORKED flawlessly, including LSB!!!
Now I am happy again.
Note: I only have one computer (home built), so reinstalling wasn't much of a pain.
I don't why some people have a problem with multiple CDs for an OS. Mandrake Powerpack Edition is seven CDs (all those extra goddies {GRIN}).
Last night, I decided to clean install 9.0 Powerpack. Much to my dismay, and only after I had formatted all linux partitions, I found that it refused to clean install: Base installation package not found! Nowhere in the info at mandrakestore, did it mention that you would be sent upgrade only CD set. I sent off a strongly worded email to mandrakesoft and went to bed: too tired to redo everything.
This morning, I did a minimal recommended install of 8.2 Powerpack, then hoping it would work, did the upgrade (I know better than to use MS Windoze version upgrades). Much to my surprise, it WORKED flawlessly, including LSB!!!
Now I am happy again.
Note: I only have one computer (home built), so reinstalling wasn't much of a pain.
I don't why some people have a problem with multiple CDs for an OS. Mandrake Powerpack Edition is seven CDs (all those extra goddies {GRIN}).
I too am on the powerpack subscription, and when i received my package the only difference between the subscription packa nd the box set was they did not send new manuals, but with version 9 I certainly did not need any manuals, however they are included in the cd's
Neither natively support USB ADSL
Neither has reliable gaming support
Both still prefer you to work in a command-prompt to really get to the guts of things.
Mr or Mrs non-techie (I'm thinking about my parents here) will get *totally* lost with Linux
I'm not a Linux basher per se, but I'll never totally give-up Windows for these reasons.
1)
USB ADSL support isn't so much a factor for most people when the majority of broadband users prefer some sort of a router/switch -> machine interface anyway (or 802.11 NIC). Most drivers for such modems are not open sourced which is why they are not included, at least with Mandrake anyway (same reason the nvidia drivers aren't included). A quick search of google revealed that USB ADSL modem support is far from impossible too.
2) Games are great and the games that come with Mandrake 9.0 (or SuSE or RH too, for that matter) are generally quite stable and playable. Dip into something like the WINE project and you might even get some typical "windows" games working under linux, and others actually have native linux installers such as Quake3, Unreal Tournament, and the bleeding edged UT2003. And yet don't expect every windows game on the store shelf to work anymore than you should expect every (if any) linux or mac game to run under that glitzy XP.
3) "Both still prefer you to work in a command-prompt to really get to the guts of things."
If a tool works then use it. To *REALLY* get to the guts of things there is no equivelant for power or ease of use than a command prompt and your choice of text editors. That sort of power and flexibility is inconceivable in a GUI form and it's a shame such things aren't more readily available in other OSs. It's not a drawback, it's an advantage, and not quite the juggling-chainsaws-blindfolded type of thing that many make it seem.
4) "Mr or Mrs non-techie (I'm thinking about my parents here) will get *totally* lost with Linux"
My non-techie wife has been running linux quite happily as her desktop for nearly a year and my 56 year old mother is making the switch from win98 next month (with my help). Oh, and me? I've ran linux for the last two years and I drive a truck for a living! If I can do it anyone can, with a bit of patience.
5) "I'm not a Linux basher per se, but I'll never totally give-up Windows for these reasons."
I still keep win98 on my kid's machine just because our fairly large game collection prefers it, so no, until commercial games are more readily available for other OSs I won't be giving up Windows completely either. But the rest of it? $200 for a new copy of XP? $400 for a copy of Office XP? I have four machines now (mostly custom built, no-OS, to keep the prices low) and I need two more in the next few months... I think I'll keep my penguin<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:D
USB ADSL support isn't so much a factor for most people when the majority of broadband users prefer some sort of a router/switch -> machine interface anyway (or 802.11 NIC). Most drivers for such modems are not open sourced which is why they are not included, at least with Mandrake anyway (same reason the nvidia drivers aren't included). A quick search of google revealed that USB ADSL modem support is far from impossible too.
2) Games are great and the games that come with Mandrake 9.0 (or SuSE or RH too, for that matter) are generally quite stable and playable. Dip into something like the WINE project and you might even get some typical "windows" games working under linux, and others actually have native linux installers such as Quake3, Unreal Tournament, and the bleeding edged UT2003. And yet don't expect every windows game on the store shelf to work anymore than you should expect every (if any) linux or mac game to run under that glitzy XP.
3) "Both still prefer you to work in a command-prompt to really get to the guts of things."
If a tool works then use it. To *REALLY* get to the guts of things there is no equivelant for power or ease of use than a command prompt and your choice of text editors. That sort of power and flexibility is inconceivable in a GUI form and it's a shame such things aren't more readily available in other OSs. It's not a drawback, it's an advantage, and not quite the juggling-chainsaws-blindfolded type of thing that many make it seem.
4) "Mr or Mrs non-techie (I'm thinking about my parents here) will get *totally* lost with Linux"
My non-techie wife has been running linux quite happily as her desktop for nearly a year and my 56 year old mother is making the switch from win98 next month (with my help). Oh, and me? I've ran linux for the last two years and I drive a truck for a living! If I can do it anyone can, with a bit of patience.
5) "I'm not a Linux basher per se, but I'll never totally give-up Windows for these reasons."
I still keep win98 on my kid's machine just because our fairly large game collection prefers it, so no, until commercial games are more readily available for other OSs I won't be giving up Windows completely either. But the rest of it? $200 for a new copy of XP? $400 for a copy of Office XP? I have four machines now (mostly custom built, no-OS, to keep the prices low) and I need two more in the next few months... I think I'll keep my penguin<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:D
4) "Mr or Mrs non-techie (I'm thinking about my parents here) will get *totally* lost with Linux"
My non-techie wife has been running linux quite happily as her desktop for nearly a year and my 56 year old mother is making the switch from win98 next month (with my help). Oh, and me? I've ran linux for the last two years and I drive a truck for a living! If I can do it anyone can, with a bit of patience.
My non-techie wife asked that I take Win 98 off her machine and install Linux.That's when I decided to experiment with LTSP. Good decision.
We are now a MSFT-free household.
I am a 50 yr old machine / building repairman.
My non-techie wife has been running linux quite happily as her desktop for nearly a year and my 56 year old mother is making the switch from win98 next month (with my help). Oh, and me? I've ran linux for the last two years and I drive a truck for a living! If I can do it anyone can, with a bit of patience.
My non-techie wife asked that I take Win 98 off her machine and install Linux.That's when I decided to experiment with LTSP. Good decision.
We are now a MSFT-free household.
I am a 50 yr old machine / building repairman.
- "USB ADSL support isn't so much a factor for most people when the majority of broadband users prefer some sort of a router/switch -> machine interface anyway (or 802.11 NIC)."
The majority of broadband users I know (here in the UK) get given a standard bit of kit to bung in a USB port. (My experience, anyway...)
- "If a tool works then use it. To *REALLY* get to the guts of things there is no equivelant for power or ease of use than a command prompt and your choice of text editors. That sort of power and flexibility is inconceivable in a GUI form and it's a shame such things aren't more readily available in other OSs."
I've not USED any command line gubbins that couldn't be done better in a nice, clear, friendly GUI (or more often, completely hidden away and automated). Obviously I've found the console a godsend on many occasions, but only to cover things that were broken or left out of the GUI. I don't call that power, it's just a lack of features. I did write a shell script the other day to concatenate all my<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.m3u album playlists together, which I was proud of. I would have rather the GUI/Media Player did it for me though, that is how my brain works.
- "My non-techie wife has been running linux quite happily as her desktop for nearly a year and my 56 year old mother is making the switch from win98 next month (with my help). Oh, and me? I've ran linux for the last two years and I drive a truck for a living! If I can do it anyone can, with a bit of patience."
My girlfried has an account on this laptop and is happy enough. Linux eye-candy is a selling point. Apps are no problem. I personally like the Windows interface better, and need the games, but blah. I'm getting work done.
- "But the rest of it? $200 for a new copy of XP? $400 for a copy of Office XP?"
Being a poor student, I couldn't afford XP on top of a new computer (would have been half the price of the machine for the retail box). Office XP is well beyond me. Linux has its chance to impress me for the next year or so. I'm content so far, but if I had the money I'd be running XP. I don't, though, so don't kill me...
The majority of broadband users I know (here in the UK) get given a standard bit of kit to bung in a USB port. (My experience, anyway...)
- "If a tool works then use it. To *REALLY* get to the guts of things there is no equivelant for power or ease of use than a command prompt and your choice of text editors. That sort of power and flexibility is inconceivable in a GUI form and it's a shame such things aren't more readily available in other OSs."
I've not USED any command line gubbins that couldn't be done better in a nice, clear, friendly GUI (or more often, completely hidden away and automated). Obviously I've found the console a godsend on many occasions, but only to cover things that were broken or left out of the GUI. I don't call that power, it's just a lack of features. I did write a shell script the other day to concatenate all my<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.m3u album playlists together, which I was proud of. I would have rather the GUI/Media Player did it for me though, that is how my brain works.
- "My non-techie wife has been running linux quite happily as her desktop for nearly a year and my 56 year old mother is making the switch from win98 next month (with my help). Oh, and me? I've ran linux for the last two years and I drive a truck for a living! If I can do it anyone can, with a bit of patience."
My girlfried has an account on this laptop and is happy enough. Linux eye-candy is a selling point. Apps are no problem. I personally like the Windows interface better, and need the games, but blah. I'm getting work done.
- "But the rest of it? $200 for a new copy of XP? $400 for a copy of Office XP?"
Being a poor student, I couldn't afford XP on top of a new computer (would have been half the price of the machine for the retail box). Office XP is well beyond me. Linux has its chance to impress me for the next year or so. I'm content so far, but if I had the money I'd be running XP. I don't, though, so don't kill me...
1) Mandrake 9 supports pppoe and usb. all you need to do is find drivers for your modem.
2) games are really ez to run on mandrake once you get your opengl drivers working(aka installing 1 rpm) I installed the demo for unreal 2003 all I needed to do was run the installer and it stated a x11 app.
3) mandrake has tools to do allmost every thing in x11
4) I think your right on this it's not for every one to learn on their self but they could lear with some simple classes and time
5) I also run windows but i'm slowly switching over to linux. after you get wine working(thats not ez) you can run allmost every thing under linux with little speed loss
2) games are really ez to run on mandrake once you get your opengl drivers working(aka installing 1 rpm) I installed the demo for unreal 2003 all I needed to do was run the installer and it stated a x11 app.
3) mandrake has tools to do allmost every thing in x11
4) I think your right on this it's not for every one to learn on their self but they could lear with some simple classes and time
5) I also run windows but i'm slowly switching over to linux. after you get wine working(thats not ez) you can run allmost every thing under linux with little speed loss
Mr or Mrs non-techie (I'm thinking about my parents here) will get *totally* lost with Linux
No they won't. Give it a try. I have coached several former Windows users as they installed Mandrake 9. They all love it.
No they won't. Give it a try. I have coached several former Windows users as they installed Mandrake 9. They all love it.
ADSL setup is a one-time thing - if you have an Alcatel SpeedTouch USB modem, try my script at http://speedtouchconf.sourceforge.net/ - works with RedHat 8, Mandrake 9, Debian-based distros (incl. Lindows, Ximian), I think it's been tested with others, too.
Out of interest, could Mr & Mrs non-techie install their USB ADSL modem under Windows? My Mum wouldn't be able to....
>Neither natively support USB ADSL
>Neither has reliable gaming support
Point taken.
>Both still prefer you to work in a command-prompt to really get to the guts of things.
That keeps non-techies from screwing up. Ever see your grandfather delete the java compiler for Windows because he got an email about it being a virus? I have. ^_^
>Mr or Mrs non-techie (I'm thinking about my parents here) will get *totally* lost with Linux
If you show them how to use it, and get them to RTFM they won't. I see mad amounts of books on Linux nowadays that are damned easy to read.
>I'm not a Linux basher per se, but I'll never totally give-up Windows for these reasons.
You're paying 200$+ for that extra "support". Hope it's worth it! You could hire a high school Linux geek to teach you everything you ever wanted to know about Linux for that much; trust me on that one. It's how I paid for college. ^_^
>Neither has reliable gaming support
Point taken.
>Both still prefer you to work in a command-prompt to really get to the guts of things.
That keeps non-techies from screwing up. Ever see your grandfather delete the java compiler for Windows because he got an email about it being a virus? I have. ^_^
>Mr or Mrs non-techie (I'm thinking about my parents here) will get *totally* lost with Linux
If you show them how to use it, and get them to RTFM they won't. I see mad amounts of books on Linux nowadays that are damned easy to read.
>I'm not a Linux basher per se, but I'll never totally give-up Windows for these reasons.
You're paying 200$+ for that extra "support". Hope it's worth it! You could hire a high school Linux geek to teach you everything you ever wanted to know about Linux for that much; trust me on that one. It's how I paid for college. ^_^
I am split right now between Mandrake 9.0 and Lycoris destop lx. Red Hat just is not there for a Windows replacement. Gnome is not very good, but Mandrake comes with it.
These Linux offerings are so damn close to putting Windows out except for:
1. Plug in play? Try to swap a video card man a bad scene then reinstall. I could put a brick into a system with win98 and it found it.
2. Try to install a rpm that does not come on the cd? Why cant Linux just be like Windows. Click on setup and you get the program installed and icons. I spend way to much time trying to find out where my software installed to? Try to use the configure make, make install, to complile code?
3. Hardware support is more like NT4 than XP and 98. The newest hardware does not have drivers yet. My Kyro 32mb just would not work so I had to use an old ATI card.
The good news is that Linux is getting better geometrically and Windows isnt. It is also either free or reasonably priced. I will not by XP, just cost too much.
2003 will be the year of Linux and Microsoft knows it. (Anitrust this Bill Gates).
These Linux offerings are so damn close to putting Windows out except for:
1. Plug in play? Try to swap a video card man a bad scene then reinstall. I could put a brick into a system with win98 and it found it.
2. Try to install a rpm that does not come on the cd? Why cant Linux just be like Windows. Click on setup and you get the program installed and icons. I spend way to much time trying to find out where my software installed to? Try to use the configure make, make install, to complile code?
3. Hardware support is more like NT4 than XP and 98. The newest hardware does not have drivers yet. My Kyro 32mb just would not work so I had to use an old ATI card.
The good news is that Linux is getting better geometrically and Windows isnt. It is also either free or reasonably priced. I will not by XP, just cost too much.
2003 will be the year of Linux and Microsoft knows it. (Anitrust this Bill Gates).
I've never managed to get Windows Setup to install something that's not part of Windows - I assume that you mean 3rd party software.
With Free/Open Source software, you have the possibility of finding out where your software installed to - fancy finding out what changes the latest Service Pack made to the Registry? Good luck...
configure && make && make install && command_name - not difficult, is it? Compared to mount the CD, find setup.exe (or is it install.exe?) run it, answer a bunch of questions, reboot, look for the icons in the start menu, double-click, hope it starts up.
Actually it is rather difficult and I have used command line since the earliest days of DOS and can program in Cobol and Basic. My first several attempts have failed and that is all the command line tells me is that something failed. No reason or error code.
It must have been a long time since you have run Windows. You don't mount a CD, it autostarts as soon as you put it in. Yes, you answer a couple of questions and then it tells you exactly where it is going to put your files. The program then shows up in your program list. No guessing involved.
No, I'm not a fan of Microslop. I'm trying very hard to embrace Linux, but if configure, make and install are part of every installation, Linux will be doomed as a major desktop player. RPMs are nice, but even this can be intimidating to a newbie.
It must have been a long time since you have run Windows. You don't mount a CD, it autostarts as soon as you put it in. Yes, you answer a couple of questions and then it tells you exactly where it is going to put your files. The program then shows up in your program list. No guessing involved.
No, I'm not a fan of Microslop. I'm trying very hard to embrace Linux, but if configure, make and install are part of every installation, Linux will be doomed as a major desktop player. RPMs are nice, but even this can be intimidating to a newbie.
"1. Plug in play? Try to swap a video card man a bad scene then reinstall. I could put a brick into a system with win98 and it found it."
Linux can do this as well. Both Mandrake and Red Hat. Were have you been for the past year?
"2. Try to install a rpm that does not come on the cd? Why cant Linux just be like Windows. Click on setup and you get the program installed and icons. I spend way to much time trying to find out where my software installed to? Try to use the configure make, make install, to complile code?"
True story. Tried installing Descent II (Win95) on W2K. Clicked "on setup" as you said[1]. Didn't install. Oh why oh why can't Windows be like BSD. BTW were did your last installation of IE hide all of it's numerous files, and more inportant when you went to install it (if you could?), did it remove all the stuff it installed? Also the compiling thing is a bit of a red herring. Most people don't, and the ones that do, know what they're doing. One can see where the package manager (RPM) has placed one's file both command-line and *graphically*.
"3. Hardware support is more like NT4 than XP and 98. The newest hardware does not have drivers yet. My Kyro 32mb just would not work so I had to use an old ATI card."
We both know why this is and who to yell at. Hopefully you've been E-Mailing your video card maker about the situation.
The point of all this? *Objectively* ALL OS have issues. Some stay, while others disappear. But none are all that and a bag of chips. Windows included. Also you know you do have to learn a bit about your OS of choice in order to use it didn't you? Now how does a newbie add a user to W2K without writing a tale of woe, in an online forum?
[1] Yes there's a way, but I had to read somone elses online woe (sound familiar?) to get the solution.
Linux can do this as well. Both Mandrake and Red Hat. Were have you been for the past year?
"2. Try to install a rpm that does not come on the cd? Why cant Linux just be like Windows. Click on setup and you get the program installed and icons. I spend way to much time trying to find out where my software installed to? Try to use the configure make, make install, to complile code?"
True story. Tried installing Descent II (Win95) on W2K. Clicked "on setup" as you said[1]. Didn't install. Oh why oh why can't Windows be like BSD. BTW were did your last installation of IE hide all of it's numerous files, and more inportant when you went to install it (if you could?), did it remove all the stuff it installed? Also the compiling thing is a bit of a red herring. Most people don't, and the ones that do, know what they're doing. One can see where the package manager (RPM) has placed one's file both command-line and *graphically*.
"3. Hardware support is more like NT4 than XP and 98. The newest hardware does not have drivers yet. My Kyro 32mb just would not work so I had to use an old ATI card."
We both know why this is and who to yell at. Hopefully you've been E-Mailing your video card maker about the situation.
The point of all this? *Objectively* ALL OS have issues. Some stay, while others disappear. But none are all that and a bag of chips. Windows included. Also you know you do have to learn a bit about your OS of choice in order to use it didn't you? Now how does a newbie add a user to W2K without writing a tale of woe, in an online forum?
[1] Yes there's a way, but I had to read somone elses online woe (sound familiar?) to get the solution.
It works, simply, elegantly, and (most importantly) easily. I don't have time at work to spend 3hrs setting up a Debian box, or figuring out Redhat's problems. Here's an example, I'm currently the virus king at work, I support all 35 novell servers and 35 NT/2000 servers for virus protection as well as over 3500 desktops in a 24X7 enviroment. I need a ftp server for our virus management software. I had one in 30min's running and in production with Mandrake 9.0. You can't do that with ANY other OS, and few other *nix installs. For my desk, knoppix rocks, for the rack? give me the 'drake.
Hi there,
I've not tried the Redhat 8, but I use Redhat 7.3 on a web server (more than 200 000 page requests/month) That works very well but It's really annoying to me to use kernel 2.4.18 because redhat don't release newer version (because of extensive patch on 2.4.18) I've bought mdk-9 on DvD and that's really cheap. I think that If I would need to reinstall linux for such a server, I would prefer mdk now. I use it every day for my own PC and that's wonderful !
Thanks a lot to Linux Communitu<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-)
I've not tried the Redhat 8, but I use Redhat 7.3 on a web server (more than 200 000 page requests/month) That works very well but It's really annoying to me to use kernel 2.4.18 because redhat don't release newer version (because of extensive patch on 2.4.18) I've bought mdk-9 on DvD and that's really cheap. I think that If I would need to reinstall linux for such a server, I would prefer mdk now. I use it every day for my own PC and that's wonderful !
Thanks a lot to Linux Communitu<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-)
I agree wholeheartedly about the Redhat vs Mandrake issue. I've tested a number of different distros ever since Linux first came out, and although I used RH for a number of years, I really think that Mandrake's policy of putting the latest kernel releases (and other latest releases of relevant software) makes it a better distro than any I have used. Sure, there are always probs. with ALL distros, esp. as its impossible to make all the bugs go away, and as Linux application and relevant software is always being updated (its such a wonderful community!), but Mankdrake really tries to keep to the edge of current technology. Its also great that we get to CHOOSE from so many distros<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... so (some of you) don't knock the fact that some people prefer one over others. Its a free market!
Articles like this help people switch to Linux.
I hate Windows but I have been reluctant to switch to Linux because of the steep learning curve. Articles like this, that emphasize the ease of installation, help create new Linux users.
I just built a new system and I wanted to move away from ALL Windows products. I first looked up users of my motherboard and processor and cross-checked their experiences with Linux installations. I searched Google's newsgroups (for you newer newbies who might be interested).
I found out that most people were having trouble free, ie first time GO!, installs with Mandrake 9.0.
I've been working with Linux for about a week now and I am very very new to the file structure, installs, and navigating back and forth in it. I would say typical with any newbie. I am very impressed with how easy the installation went and how fairly intuitive it is to work with.
Thanks for the article.
I hate Windows but I have been reluctant to switch to Linux because of the steep learning curve. Articles like this, that emphasize the ease of installation, help create new Linux users.
I just built a new system and I wanted to move away from ALL Windows products. I first looked up users of my motherboard and processor and cross-checked their experiences with Linux installations. I searched Google's newsgroups (for you newer newbies who might be interested).
I found out that most people were having trouble free, ie first time GO!, installs with Mandrake 9.0.
I've been working with Linux for about a week now and I am very very new to the file structure, installs, and navigating back and forth in it. I would say typical with any newbie. I am very impressed with how easy the installation went and how fairly intuitive it is to work with.
Thanks for the article.
Mandrake 9 prooves that Linux will be a serious option for the non-tech users. With a slick design, and all the basic software generally used.
But still there is more to fix. The menus are confuzing (ive used md9 with both gnome and kde) There are several software for the same tasks, and for a newbie its not easy to remember what he used the last time, and where it was. Its kinda overkill on software. And in oposite, there are excellent programs missing in the menus in either KDE or Gnome. I.e. Gimp never showed with me in KDE.
When it comes to software, its amazing how good it is. It has OpenOffice.org Writer and Calc, Gimp, X-chat, Evolution, and so much much more, are ready there to use. For free.
The never-ending install problem: Gwargh. In Windows there is the usual installers. You choose to agree to the eula, choose where to install the program by browsing (or accepting the Program Files dir), and if you want, you can often customize the installation pretty easy. The only thing you dont control is dll files in system dir, but i never heard that bother any general user. Ofcourse there are exceptions in Windows to, where programes comes in hard to understand zip packages, but its ages since i saw that.
In linux its not quite that easy. You never seem to get to decide where to put the program. And some programes must be compiled (newbies dont have a single clue of what compiling is), some rpm, some is zipped, some is tar.gnu, and some are the new rpm. And it doesnt stop there. Often when you download a program for linux on internet, you get the message that you need another pack, or the pack its depending on had the wrong version number. Then its back to internet to find this damn package. Then this might need another one. If no broadband is installed, this is really time consuming with a slow modem, and the time you calculated to use to install the program, can be doubled up a few times. In windows there are usually one file, and thats that. I can see that for those having full control of what packages they have, and where to get them, this system is saving them time, but for me, it just seems like a big jungle.
When it comes to installing the OS, Mandrake 9 is almost a dream. But still, you should know a thing or two about computers to install. IMHO a newbie should never install a computer, if he dont have time and will to learn from all the pitfalls there is in installing OS. Drivers, general settings, network setup, etc, can be a pain in the ass sometimes.
Anyway, i can see Mandrake 9 used by newbie grandma if its properly set up. I cant see that Windows would be any easier for general stuff like surfing internet, eamiling, playing music/video, write documents, set up home bugdet, play small games etc.
But still there is more to fix. The menus are confuzing (ive used md9 with both gnome and kde) There are several software for the same tasks, and for a newbie its not easy to remember what he used the last time, and where it was. Its kinda overkill on software. And in oposite, there are excellent programs missing in the menus in either KDE or Gnome. I.e. Gimp never showed with me in KDE.
When it comes to software, its amazing how good it is. It has OpenOffice.org Writer and Calc, Gimp, X-chat, Evolution, and so much much more, are ready there to use. For free.
The never-ending install problem: Gwargh. In Windows there is the usual installers. You choose to agree to the eula, choose where to install the program by browsing (or accepting the Program Files dir), and if you want, you can often customize the installation pretty easy. The only thing you dont control is dll files in system dir, but i never heard that bother any general user. Ofcourse there are exceptions in Windows to, where programes comes in hard to understand zip packages, but its ages since i saw that.
In linux its not quite that easy. You never seem to get to decide where to put the program. And some programes must be compiled (newbies dont have a single clue of what compiling is), some rpm, some is zipped, some is tar.gnu, and some are the new rpm. And it doesnt stop there. Often when you download a program for linux on internet, you get the message that you need another pack, or the pack its depending on had the wrong version number. Then its back to internet to find this damn package. Then this might need another one. If no broadband is installed, this is really time consuming with a slow modem, and the time you calculated to use to install the program, can be doubled up a few times. In windows there are usually one file, and thats that. I can see that for those having full control of what packages they have, and where to get them, this system is saving them time, but for me, it just seems like a big jungle.
When it comes to installing the OS, Mandrake 9 is almost a dream. But still, you should know a thing or two about computers to install. IMHO a newbie should never install a computer, if he dont have time and will to learn from all the pitfalls there is in installing OS. Drivers, general settings, network setup, etc, can be a pain in the ass sometimes.
Anyway, i can see Mandrake 9 used by newbie grandma if its properly set up. I cant see that Windows would be any easier for general stuff like surfing internet, eamiling, playing music/video, write documents, set up home bugdet, play small games etc.
Personally think 9.0 rocks, so what that u have to download two disks.Used kde in mk8.1 but prefer gnome in 9.0 seems faster and more stable.This is just a newbie point of view, since I've only been using linux for 1 1/2 yrs now.
So???
Posted by: Anonymous Coward on January 07, 2003 05:10 PM#