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First look at HP's first US all-Linux PC

By on September 03, 2003 (8:00:00 AM)

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- by Joe Barr -
I've been itching to get my hands on an HP Compaq d220 ever since I saw it <SLASH HREF="//linux.com/relocate.pl?id=51b99ab77640eed20128e70b822527e8" ID="abc206bcf1eaea52f099c585d069bc10" TITLE="http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press/2003/030702a.html" TYPE="LINK">announced</SLASH> in early July. The d220 appeared to be the first preloaded Linux desktop made available in the US by a tier-one OEM since Dell's half-hearted attempt was taken off the market. Alas, from my hands-on testing I learned that HP is not preloading Linux on the d220, nor on any other desktops sold in the U.S. Instead, if ordered with the Linux option, the d220 is shipped with an empty hard drive and two CDs containing Mandrake 9.1 Light. Updated

The d220 I reviewed was slightly different than what I would have received had I purchased it. It came with a combo CD-RW/DVD drive that is not available on the Linux model at present, although HP says it will be shortly. The other thing that was different was that HP had installed Mandrake on it before I received it.

This HP Compaq d220 desktop box came with an Intel 845GV chipset, 2GHz Intel Celeron with 128KB of L2 cache, 256MB of PC2700 DDR RAM, 400MHz front side bus, integrated Intel Enhanced Extreme Graphics, 40GB IDE hard drive spinning at 7200 RPM, 48X Combo Drive (CD-RW & DVD-ROM), integrated audio and internal speaker, integrated 10/100 Broadcom 10/100 network card, 3.5" floppy drive, PS/2 keyboard, and a 2-button PS/2 scroll mouse. All d220s come with a standard one-year onsite warranty for parts and labor.

HP told me that an identical unit to the one I reviewed -- except for substituting either a 48X CD-ROM or CD-RW for the combo drive -- would cost $467 with Linux, $519 with Windows XP Home, or $589 for Windows XP Professional. I selected various options for d220 configuration on the HP Web site and found it was possible to get the price for a Linux d220 as low as $377 and as high as just over $900.

The system unit, keyboard, and mouse are all done in my favorite shade of black. The box itself -- HP calls it a microtower - is approximately 14" high by 7" wide by 16" deep. Setting it up was easy. The standard cable connections for monitor, keyboard, and mouse are clearly marked on the back of the unit.

HP d220 business desktop

The HP keyboard was of medium weight, with a not-quite-squishy touch. There was audible feedback from the keyboard unless I typed very lightly. The reassuring click which many of us who learned to type on typewriters like to hear sounds only when you press the key all the way to the bottom.

Once I had everything connected, I pressed the power button and booted Mandrake 9.1. However, to emulate a real customer's experience, I decided to install the operating system again using HP's CDs. Mandrake 9.1, by the way, is certified by HP to run across its entire desktop line. HP tells me that SuSE and Red Hat will also be certified soon.

It was a typical Mandrake install: fast and easy. The entire process took less than 20 minutes, not counting the time I spent resolving what I believed to be an issue with the software update process at the end of the install. That issue proved to be nothing more than Mandrake's FTP mirrors being swamped with folks downloading RC1 of Mandrake 9.2. When I tried again I was able to apply all relevant security fixes in less than 5 minutes.

I believe that Mandrake Light got its name from the fact that the source code and certain commercial binaries which are normally part of a retail Mandrake installation are not included, and not because you're not getting a full range of software. I certainly didn't see any missing applications when the installation completed.

Just as you would expect for a business system, Mandrake Light includes an abundance of office tools and productivity software. OpenOffice.org and KOffice were there in entirety. The choice of spreadsheets included my personal favorite, gnumeric. There were also amusements like Frozen Bubble, a raft of browsers and email clients, and several IM clients.

Neither HP nor Mandrake provides any free support for Linux. You can, however, purchase Mandrake email or telephone support as an option when you buy or from MandrakeSoft directly.

The DVD drive made a noticable whirring noise during installation, but as I explored the system software after the install I was impressed with its silent running. I decided to have a peek inside the case and see if I could figure out why it was so quiet.

I loosened and removed the two thumbscrews at the back and slid the side of the case out. A large black baffle covered the CPU and attached to the exhaust outlet on the back of the case. I could make out the lettering on it: it said Cooler Master. I was impressed. I asked HP if the Cooler Master was standard on the d220. They assured me that it was.

Now that the case was opened up, I was curious how quiet it was inside while it was running. I plugged the system back in and powered it up without replacing the side. If I held my head close to the open box, I could hear a little noise from the hard drive, but nothing from the CPU or power supply fans.

The performance of the d220 with the 2GHz Celeron with 256MB DDR memory was more than adequate. However, if you need more speed or more memory, both are available. You can go all the way up to a 2.80GHz Pentium 4 processor with 533MHz front side bus and 512MB of DDR memory.

Since the video, LAN, and sound are all integrated into the mainboard, all three PCI slots are still available.

Update: As a sharp-eyed reader pointed out, I neglected to mention modems. Since the d220 is aimed at business users instead of home users, I didn't think it important enough to comment on. The Linux version of the d220 does not include a modem offering. The Windows version of the d220 does include a modem option, but it is a Winmodem. HP tells me there is a Linux driver available for it on the Internet. If you need dialup on your Linux d220, you'll need to provide your own modem.

As far as the preload situation goes, it appears we will have to wait a little longer for a preloaded Linux desktop from a major vendor. Following a conference call with HP about the d220, HP spokesperson Tim Constance commented in a follow-up email that "Because of the many flavors and geographical preferences for Linux, HP offers the customer a choice of installing the included Mandrake Linux operating system, or a system of their choice at first boot-up. As always, we will continue to evaluate this method of installation to ensure we are meeting the needs of our customers, and will implement alternative installation programs as our customer needs dictate."

The bottom line is that the d220 is a good value, and it's quiet and well built, especially for the price. I would seriously consider buying one for my own use except for one thing: I'm saving my love for an OEM who preloads Linux.

Joe Barr has been writing about technology for 10 years, and about Linux for five. His work has appeared in IBM Personal Systems Journal, LinuxGazette, LinuxWorld, Newsforge, phrack, SecurityFocus, and VARLinux.org. He is the founder of The Dweebspeak Primer, the official newsletter of the Linux Liberation Army.

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on First look at HP's first US all-Linux PC

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almost perfect

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on September 03, 2003 05:52 PM
but I wouldn't consider a new system these days without RAID 1. I think a perfect job for a Linux box in every household, including Windows and Mac households is as a Samba server with RAID 1 drive setup. You can save and share all your data there, and if one drive is fried you just replace it. I have a Samba server now, but it's not RAID 1, and now, yet another IBM drive is going bad in my box and I'm thinking about RAID 1 again.

Couple this with most manufacturers only giving you a 1 year instead of a 3 year warranty (a no-confidence vote from the manufacturer) and really, RAID 1 is almost a necessity.

Also 512M is a bit limiting.

My ideal Linux cheap box would be:

1. Quiet.
2. Small package.
3. RAID-1 or, if you have more money, RAID-10 (no RAID 5)
4. Decent CPU (but doesn't have to be the fastest).
5. 1 Gig of RAM (although 512 is enough...maybe I'm just greedy?)
6. Embedded everything: NIC, Video, Sound, etc..and all works with Linux (and well supported).

Quiet is important. All my computers sound like vacuum cleaners and it's very irritating<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:(.

This HP box sounds pretty competitive on the pricing, considering you get HP support. If you are buying this box, you should go for 3 year on-site support for $99+ dollars, otherwise you waste your money on a name brand. If you're not getting on-site support, why bother with HP? Just make your own box.

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Re:almost perfect RAID 1?

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on September 03, 2003 07:04 PM
Why RAID 1 instead of 5? I saw a RAID 5 HOWTO and was thinking about implimenting it. Spend $10 for an after market fan, I can't hear mine running.

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Re:almost perfect RAID 1?

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on September 03, 2003 07:48 PM
RAID 1 is for beginners, get yourself a RAID 50 (lol)

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Re:almost perfect RAID 1?

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on September 03, 2003 10:17 PM
Why RAID 1 instead of 5?

Maybe he's cheap. RAID 1 is kinda slow, and you lose HALF of your total capacity.

RAID 5 is faster, you only lose 1/3 of capacity if you use 3 drives - but you need at least 3. In either case, you can still only lose 1 drive at a time.

At least you don't get a performance hit with RAID 5.

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Re:almost perfect RAID 1?

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on September 03, 2003 10:51 PM
not true.
RAID 5 is the worst for dis disk performance.
it writes all data accross all drives, with parity.
This allows an entire drive to die and the system will work around it, and when replaced, the drive will be automatically rebuilt.

RAID 1 (mirroring) is WAY faster for reading data (it can choose between two drives)
RAID 0 (Striping) is the fastest all around.

A popular combo (for DBs) is RAID 0+1

-your all weeinies.

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Re:almost perfect RAID 1?

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on September 03, 2003 11:09 PM
Actually, RAID 5 and RAID 0 offer similar performance when using a hardware RAID controller. The CRC calculations are done by the controller, so while the RAID 5 array will perform *slightly* slower, you should never notice the difference. Plus, you still get redundancy, which is the point in the first place. RAID 0 is only appropriate for the irrationally optimistic.

As for DBs, my day job includes doing DBA stuff for several Microsoft SQL Server machines. Microsoft recommends RAID 5 for the data and RAID 1 for the transaction logs if you're looking for the best performance.

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Re:almost perfect RAID 1?

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on September 03, 2003 11:20 PM
"RAID 0 offer similar performance when using a hardware RAID controller. The CRC calculations are done by the controller"

Just be aware that the "cheap" HW RAID controllers these days aren't really HW RAID controllers at all.

All they are are IDE controllers with a bit of POST boot ROM to allow them to create an RAID 0 or 1 or 1 + 0 array, and boot off of either disk, in the case of a RAID 1 array, in the case where one has failed.

Once the OS is loaded, the device driver (and therefore the CPU), is doing all the RAID stuff.

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Re:almost perfect RAID 1?

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on September 03, 2003 11:31 PM
RAID 5 for dbs is bad, period.
no real dba would agree otherwise.

Try doing some real benchmarking before you go claiming you know better.

No RAID 5 array has come close to beating a raid 0.

Fucking microsoft groupie.

"But my MSCE book said so"

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Re:almost perfect RAID 1?

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on September 03, 2003 11:19 PM
Maybe if you are dealing with SCSI1 LOL!

Get a book, RAID1 just isn't that great anymore.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;-)

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Re:almost perfect RAID 1?

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on September 04, 2003 01:22 PM
Probably because a RAID 0/1 controller costs $500.

Linux will do software RAID 0, 1 and 5. The CPU overhead for RAID 0 or 1 is minimal. The parity calculations for RAID 5 may consume significant CPU resources though. But for a lighly loaded home server with modern CPU, who cares about CPU utilization?

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Linux not just for i386 anymore

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on September 03, 2003 07:43 PM
<A HREF="http://www.debian.org/" TITLE="debian.org">Debian</a debian.org> and <A HREF="http://www.yellowdoglinux.com/" TITLE="yellowdoglinux.com">Yellowdog</a yellowdoglinux.com> run on the nice, quiet iBooks. There is supposed to be a PPC distro of Mandrake as well. The <A HREF="http://www.apple.com/ibook/specs.html" TITLE="apple.com">14" iBook</a apple.com> seems meet your specs, plus good battery life.

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Re:Linux not just for i386 anymore

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on September 04, 2003 12:08 AM
I should have been more explicit about the price.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:) I was talking about a cheap linux box, as in, high computing power per dollar ratio.

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Re:almost perfect

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on September 04, 2003 04:41 AM
It's a desktop.

There are some fundamental differences between server hardware and off the shelf DIY components that you happened to stick in a rackmount case. Hot swap HDD. Hot swap redundant power supplies. Hot swap redundannt cooling. Hot swap Redundant NICs. Hot swap mirrored memory. PCI-X expansion slots. Redundant RAID controllers. Higher end models even support CPU sparing. Most of these features com standard on servers at prices lower than desktops were a few years ago.

You want a server with Linux on it? Most of the major OEM's are perfectly happy to sell you a server without an OS and/or ship some Linux CDs with the server for you to install yourself. Do yourself a favor and buy a real server instead of building a PC in a rackmount case.

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Re:almost perfect

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on September 04, 2003 05:35 AM
I would consider raid1 for the desktop as a substitute for cheap instantaneous backup. If one disk dies, I can back up, and continue using the box, while waiting for the replacement. I don't have to run around looking the previous backup, figuring out what I already lost, and so on...

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Re:not quite perfect

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on September 04, 2003 12:18 PM
Quiet?
Small?
Decent cpu (not fastest)?
512 MB Ram enough?
raid 1?

And raid 5 is no good?

Judging from your sub-posts, I'd guess you're running a refurbished e-machines box with ms access...

I'll stick with my hardware raid 51 with hot spare/swap. I couldn't care less about your e-machines monster or your junior high school fantasies, but I'll bet my penguin raid setup on my desktop runs circles around your fantasy benchmarks.

Now go pop a zit!

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Re:almost perfect

Posted by: Sage1 on September 05, 2003 10:55 AM
Actually, I have been wandering the Best Buy, CompUSA, Sam's Clubs, inserting Knoppix V3.2
and installing other Linux distros, for about a year.

I hand out FREE CD's of Knoppix at these 'Events'
and, today, the Commercial sales rep. at CompUSA just stood there as customers gathered around, got their FREE Knoppix CD's, plus the address for the Installfest, this Saturday, at Valencia -Metro - Community College in Florida. http://leap-cf.org is on a W I D E pipe, so ya'll go ahead and look!

M$ trained and brainwashed retail sales people are clueless about how to really sell computers, and software, being so very lazy from all of the folks who just appear with money in hand to purchase goodies, like that M$ vaporware, brokenware, and virus of the week ware.

Today, COMPUSA lost several customers who appeared to purchase a DVD recorder on sale, only to find the LOCK-UP was filled with them, all on telephone reserve for customers who phoned in... and they refused to give out rain checks...

HP is following that broken model of customer NO-SUPPORT. I agree with many of you, that if a retailer won't work with the regular customers who are there every week, we will vote with our feet!

For perfection, I build my boxen from parts. Saves huge wads of green, plus, everything works!

There are some really great computer component prices on the web... a 52x24x52 CD for $19.25 delivered!
Knoppix rocks, though I have about 60 of the other distros here, some retail boxes, some from
http://cheapbytes.com and some downloads from http://distrowatch.com

Knoppix has over 28 distros for your pleasure!
http://knopper.net/knoppix

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Only business ?

Posted by: gerardm on September 03, 2003 07:50 PM
In the HP stuff it says that it is aimed at the small business.. Is it also available for private individuals or, do they have to buy Microsoft included ?
Thanks,

    Gerard

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Re:Only business ?

Posted by: Joe Barr on September 03, 2003 07:53 PM
Anyone can buy it, you don't have to be a business. HP offers a Linux version of the d220. You do not have to pay the DOS/Windows tax.

Joe Barr

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Waste of time

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on September 03, 2003 08:41 PM
SCO is going to shut down the HP line, when they finally win their case and kill Linux. I suggest you all get prepared and go ahead and migrate now, SCO has an unbeatable case and pretty soon Linux will be dead.

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Re:Waste of time

Posted by: ickusslime on September 03, 2003 09:18 PM
your an idiot...

#

Re:Waste of time

Posted by: ickusslime on September 03, 2003 09:20 PM
sorry, that's: you're an idiot...

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Re:Waste of time

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on September 04, 2003 12:46 AM
Actually, you are an idiot. No one can show me proof that SCO's claims are false. SCO has many analysts and experts behind them when all the Linux community has is a bunch of sidewalk lawyers and shade tree bloggists standing behind the Linux community, no one credible. SCO says it has over 1,500 lines of proof I believe it because they have done their research and they have shown me something with substance, the only thing the Open Source community has shown me is:

immaturity: From DoS attacks against SCO
Opionions of people who are unimportant and really dont know much of anything
The Linux community changes its story day after day.

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Re:Waste of time

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on September 04, 2003 04:35 AM
guess what darlin, you are the father of my baby. I did some research and this is the conclusion I came up with. you have to send me child support every month from now on or I will sue your ass for life. I have 1000's of proofs, but I won't share them with you unless you agree to pay me. my baby has your eyes, your nose, and is uncircumcised just like you are. these are good enough proofs that you're the father, but I won't show them.

love you my dear. you have always been, and are such an idiot

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Re:Waste of time

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on September 03, 2003 09:19 PM
Well, that was finely crafted humor,...or a poorly crafted troll. I guess I'm not sure which.

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Re:Waste of time

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on September 03, 2003 09:23 PM
That was a terrible troll, A good troll doesn't give away that he is trolling. A good troll is provacative and lures his victims into an incredibly long thread.

I know trolls, and you sir are no troll!

#

Re:Waste of time

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on September 03, 2003 10:42 PM
Whoa, how insightful! Thanks for the tip. Can you tell me who will become the next governer of California? Arnie or Bustamante? Can you read my future? What kind of dopes are you taking, Mr. Prophet?

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Re:Waste of time

Posted by: Joe Barr on September 03, 2003 11:02 PM

Oh, right. Yes. We have abandoned all hope. The SCO case is so airtight, so well researched, and so immaculately presented that we should all just give up and move to the Mac OS/X.

By the way, I have a bridge for sale in Brooklyn. If you would like to learn more, forward me your particulars and I'll start drawing up the paperwork.

Joe Barr

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Re:Waste of time

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on September 03, 2003 11:10 PM
I'm amazed that anyone who has a clue would say SCO has an airtight case. After looking at their claims I was forced to choke back my laughter. SCO is an embarrasement, nothing more. Claiming code written by other's is plain rediculous. They were not derivitive works plain and simple.

The code SCO shows to the 'experts' has been around since 1974 and published in many books. So the secret is out now. Linux is based on code from the mid 1970's "-)

I pity SCO execs. The SEC will fry them.

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Re:Waste of time

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on September 04, 2003 12:37 AM
Every heard of a "I have a bridge to sell you in Brooklyn" joke? It was a joke.

#

Re:Waste of time

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on September 04, 2003 12:48 AM
Actually, you are an idiot. No one can show me proof that SCO's claims are false. SCO has many analysts and experts behind them when all the Linux community has is a bunch of sidewalk lawyers and shade tree bloggists standing behind the Linux community, no one credible. SCO says it has over 1,500 lines of proof I believe it because they have done their research and they have shown me something with substance, the only thing the Open Source community has shown me is:

immaturity: From DoS attacks against SCO
Opionions of people who are unimportant and really dont know much of anything
The Linux community changes its story day after day.

#

Re:Waste of time

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on September 04, 2003 12:56 AM
> The Linux community changes its story day after day.
Just like SCO then (but more affordable)
--
AR

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Re:Waste of time

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on September 04, 2003 02:18 AM
Hmm... That's why Munich just fined them $10k USD. Proof, indeed.

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Re:Waste of time

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on September 04, 2003 04:45 AM
OK... until now, I though no one actually believed SCO...

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Re:Waste of time

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on September 04, 2003 07:01 AM
Why not? As i stated they have shown me more in terms of physical evidence, the Open Source community has just shown me words.

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Physical evidence

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on September 04, 2003 07:08 AM
I'll bite. Please enlighten me.

What physical evidence has SCO shown?

Who are you that they would show you evidence that the "Open Source community" has not been shown?

Have you read and understand <A HREF="http://www.perens.com/Articles/SCO/SCOSlideShow.html" TITLE="perens.com">these</a perens.com> words?

What "physical evidence" has SCO provided you to refute Mr. Parens' analysis?

If you have substantive things to teach us, please, do so.

#

Hey Laura

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on September 04, 2003 07:52 AM
OK Ms. DiDio, I heard you saw a ton of "physical evidence" of Linux stealing SCO code. So, tell me, how did you verify authenticity of the "evidence" you saw? Were you there with Unix historians? What IP rights (patents) does SCO own, if any? Do they own IP rights for something that IBM owns patents for? Has Linux community "just shown [you] words?" Sounds to me like what McBride has been doing to us since the beginning of this rant. How come SCO is still hiding their "evidence" from public? Give me a break.

I know that next thing you say is that UFO exists because you saw the physical evidence (picture) on tabloids. Thank goodness, I am smart enough to verify what other people say. Of course you are more than welcome to be different from the rest of the world. Good luck. Really.

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Re:Waste of time

Posted by: ccchips on September 03, 2003 11:11 PM
Actually, I got the impression that this HP desktop machine had an unbeatable case.

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Re:Waste of time

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on September 04, 2003 03:14 AM
If you are going to be sarcastic, you have to make sure that the wording is very precise and that the message is long enough for the sarcasm to be readily apparent.

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I Love You

Posted by: Chris Spencer on September 04, 2003 04:38 AM
I just want you to know that you're a wonderful person, and you hold a very important role in society. I couldn't imagine what the would would be like without someone as special as you.

(trolls and people who hide behind computers ususally have confidence and self esteem problems. Don't respond to their ignorance, just give them a little reassureance<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:o)

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Re:Waste of time

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on September 04, 2003 05:17 AM
I just HAVE to jump in here. How much bongwater have you been chasing the crack cocaine down with? Heck SCO can't keep a straight story for two days in a row! what on Earth gives you the impression that they have a snowball's chance in Phoenix of winnng this thing?

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Re:Waste of time

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on September 04, 2003 10:07 AM
SCO is full of shit.

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Re:Waste of time

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on September 06, 2003 05:43 AM
Oh, wow, I shouldn't have said that. Sorry. Guess I'm just having a bad day.

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Re:Waste of time

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on September 07, 2003 03:23 AM
More about guys like this one at
http://www.net4u.hr/~dgemic/,
look for chapter titled "Microsoft people".


                                    DG

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Re:Waste of time

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on September 13, 2003 12:08 PM
Hey, I'm a Windows user and just fine with it. It does the job!!! I also have another hard drive dedicated to Mandrake 9.1, I don't use it much but I'm glad it's there!!<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-) As for all this SCO stuff, it's scarry but I think that SCO and the world will reach an agreement one way or another. For the time being I read stuff like this joker wrote and say to you all "Pay him no mind. The house fell on him and he's pissed that some one stole his ruby slippers!!"

Richard<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;-)~

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What is the big deal?

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on September 16, 2003 06:05 AM
I read a little about this case from the news on SC web site and some "GNU/Free Software" people's responses. From what I gather SCO is upset about some specific code for enterpise server systems. I am not an expert in this but the people who built and use linux are not deploying enterprise systems for personal use. Thus my question is if this code SCO is upset about is for the enterpise class system, will there be an effect on the personal user on a single generic pc with at most two processors? I would really like to know this answer. ALso considering the time, efort and millions or billions of lines of code devoted to Linux I have confidence that if 1500 lines of code accidentally was incorrectly contributed then the Linux community of developers would immediately replace or redevelop the segment easily.

In conclusion, I attended Linuxworld in SF, CA and in the Debate on stage one of the "analysts" proclaimed how in the past and present Microsoft's business plan was always win, win, win, or to win. They had no other outcome. Today and for the future this is true for Linux and the GPL. Linux can only win. As long as the air I breath is free so too will be Linux.

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Real customer's experience?

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on September 03, 2003 09:34 PM
"However, to emulate a real customer's experience, I decided to install the operating system again using HP's CDs."

How many customers reinstall the OS after they buy it? Why not juse use the default settings, as a real customer would probably do when they first use it.

Also, a real customer wouldn't reinstall the OS. In fact, they would bring their friend over (or invite their son over for dinner...personal experience) to do the reinstall for them.

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Re:Real customer's experience?

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on September 03, 2003 10:03 PM
they first install it.

doh

RTFA

a real customer would HAVE to install it.

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Re:Real customer's experience?

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on September 03, 2003 10:24 PM
Since the intended customer for this machine is supposed to be a business user, chances are that the business purchasing this machine _is_ going to install a modified OS image, particularly if that business has more than 10 machines to manage. I'm working right now on a machine with a 'corporate standard' install of NT 4.0 with all of the custom, in-house applications, while there is a windows 2000 license sticker stuck to the side of the case.

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Re:Real customer's experience?

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on September 03, 2003 10:31 PM
"Alas, from my hands-on testing I learned that HP is not preloading Linux on the d220, nor on any other desktops sold in the U.S. Instead, if ordered with the Linux option, the d220 is shipped with an empty hard drive and two CDs containing Mandrake 9.1 Light."

The default settings are actually an uninstalled OS. A real customer might not re-install, but he would have to do a first install.

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Re:Real customer's experience?

Posted by: Joe Barr on September 03, 2003 10:33 PM

Linux would not have been installed had I been a real customer. I would have received a blank hard drive and the two CDs with which to install Linux.

Joe Barr

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Worried about AGP

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on September 03, 2003 10:40 PM
Theres no mention of an AGP slot. Too many people including myself prefer to replace the onboard VGA with a Geforce or Radeon. Everything else is just perfect, 512mb ram, a good dose of a Pentium4... and hopefully theres an option of using a harddrive with 8mb cache. I wouldnt go with SCSI and a cheetah with this system, its for a quite home use and I would keep it that way. Nevertheless I could use more PCI slots.

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Re:Worried about AGP

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on September 03, 2003 11:26 PM
There is no AGP slot. The 220 is targeted for SMB market and is strictly an entry level box.

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Re:Worried about AGP

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on September 04, 2003 09:38 AM
Check out the D330 for the AGP slot. It is also well priced and a nice machine. I recently purchased 30 of them from my vendor for under $1000 each including 3year onsite, 2.6ghz, and 15" lcd. The internal speaker is reasonable and plays the soundcard sounds when you don't have speakers plugged in. HP is great and beat the socks off of what Dell offered me for the same price and quantity.

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"Enjoy the Silence"

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on September 03, 2003 11:28 PM
I was impressed with its silent running. I decided to have a peek inside the case and see if I could figure out why it was so quiet.

I loosened and removed the two thumbscrews at the back and slid the side of the case out. A large black baffle covered the CPU and attached to the exhaust outlet on the back of the case. I could make out the lettering on it: it said Cooler Master. I was impressed. I asked HP if the Cooler Master was standard on the d220. They assured me that it was.


I work at a Compaq sales shop (although I'm a sysadmin, so I don't get to poke around at the new offerings much<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:o)

A few years ago, one of the techs and I were going for lunch, so I stopped by the service department - the tech was in the burn-in room (we still check each machine before the customer gets them.) I walked in, and the room contained a couple of dozen Deskpros.. the room was dead silent, so I assumed he hadn't turned them on yet..

Until I saw the power lights on all of them were on.. I asked him if they were in sleep mode, and he said "No, they just don't make any noise."

Ever since, I've been a Compaq (now HP) fan.

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Re:"Enjoy the Silence"

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on September 03, 2003 11:37 PM
You've got to be kidding. Any tech worth a damn knows VERY well that Compaq builds a crappy machine, difficult to work on due to cramped cases, horrible reliability due to cramped cases and heat build up, not to mention that they don't document what parts they put in the damn things...

Go sniff some more glue, oh Compaq sales puke.

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Oh, please

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on September 03, 2003 11:57 PM
It sounds like your experience is limited to the home PC line. The business line of Compaq/HP products are a completely different breed and nothing like you describe. They are extremely reliable, quiet, well documented and easy to work on(replacing parts and so forth). Infact the only PCs I've seen that are easier to work on are the newer Dells that open up like a book or the hood of a car e.g. GX260 and the components simply slide in and out on quick release trays.

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Know your material...

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on September 04, 2003 04:33 AM
I think that if you take a look at the history of Compaq, you'll find that Compaq's "business line" really was/is crap. The DEC merger changed that drastically, by adding Alpha innovations into the works. If you want to laud a suit, kiss Compaq's ass all you want. However, if you are to truly commend someone, son, give credit where credit is due... Digital.

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Re:"Enjoy the Silence"

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on September 04, 2003 01:19 AM
You've got to be kidding.

No, I'm quote serious. I'm just more experienced with computers than you are. If you had the experiences I had, you wouldn't be so negative about their Deskpro line.

Any tech worth a damn knows VERY well that Compaq builds a crappy machine

No, any tech that has only worked on Presarios thinks that Compaq builds crappy machines.

Any tech that's worked on the full line of Compaq products knows that their business models are one of the most well engineered, solidy built machines in the business.

difficult to work on due to cramped cases

Easy to work on, thanks to everything being modular, and removable without screws. You can swap out a bad HD, PS, CDROM, or anything else in under a minute - without any tools

horrible reliability due to cramped cases and heat build up

Amazing reliability due to being so well designed.

they don't document what parts they put in the damn things

Full and complete documentation for everything, right down to the screws used to hold the case together.

Go sniff some more glue

I could say the same to you, Oh moron who does not know whereof he speaks.

Here's a question for you, if you can't honestly answer "yes", then you shouldn't reply:

"HAVE YOU EVER WORKED ON A DESKPRO?"

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Re:"Enjoy the Silence"

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on September 04, 2003 04:35 AM
I think that if you take a look at the history of Compaq, you'll find that Compaq's "business line" really was/is crap. The DEC merger changed that drastically, by adding Alpha innovations into the works. If you want to laud a suit, kiss Compaq's ass all you want. However, if you are to truly commend someone, son, give credit where credit is due... Digital.

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Re:"Enjoy the Silence"

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on September 04, 2003 04:58 AM
I think that if you take a look at the history of Compaq

OK, the DEC thing happened when? Oh yeah, 8 years ago. Try bringing something relevant to the conversation next time.

you'll find that Compaq's "business line" really was/is crap.

WAS? Perhaps - depending on how far back you go, and how you define 'crap'. I have some Compaq 486's (preceeding the DEC buyout) that were great. (And probably still work.)

IS? No. Right now, and in the recent past, Compaq's business gear is rock solid.

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phrase turning...

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on September 04, 2003 09:04 PM
"It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt..."

how true.

Oh well...

I understand fully that you think that older information (within this decade, mind you) is somehow irrelavant to the creation of a solid business box. Ok, I'll bite.

Let's jump to the more recent HP/Compaq merger. At the time, Compaq's business apps were a joke, even compared to HP's NetServer line (and I obviously discount your boxes, given that since YOU touched them... they're perfect manifestations of your glory). It was a well known fact in the tech world that from Compaq's "enterprise solutions," HP only wanted the Alpha rights, not a damn thing else.

Actually, they needed a babysitter for their home PC line. Guess who sat bitch that time? Yes, my friend... the company that you laud gets the PSG over the ESG?

In your defense... I hear that Compaq's servers can be quite useful for some high end technical applications, like Notepad or Paint.

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Re:"Enjoy the Silence"

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on September 03, 2003 11:42 PM
Ever since, I've been a Compaq (now HP) fan

so you're very silent !

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Re:"Enjoy the Silence"

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on September 04, 2003 01:43 AM
ok, thats funny.

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Re:"Enjoy the Silence"

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on September 04, 2003 04:37 AM
very true... funny.

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Re:"Enjoy the Silence"

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on September 04, 2003 12:44 AM
Try running the new Compaq Proliant G3, you'll stop being a fan. If you buy a racks worth make sure to also pick up some ear plugs

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Re:"Enjoy the Silence"

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on September 04, 2003 01:09 AM
Try running the new Compaq Proliant G3

If you're running a Proliant as a desktop, you deserve everything you get.

The Proliant is a server model.

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Re:"Enjoy the Silence"

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on September 04, 2003 11:28 AM
What, what was that? Hang on lemme shut off this damn web farm so I can hear you.

heh

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Re:"Enjoy the Silence"

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on September 04, 2003 01:01 PM
our ml330 servers are incredibly loud. occasionally extra fans cut in and it sounds like the server room is taking off.

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Web page shows MS only

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on September 04, 2003 01:46 AM
I am actually in the market for something like this, but I certainly don't want it with the MS tax. How does one get it with Linux. I searched a long time on the web page. Every model insisted on some version of MS software.

They lost my business. I don't care if Linux is installed or not, but they have to publically acknowledge that it is available. Claiming to offer it and hiding the fact just makes people angry (like me).

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Re:Web page shows MS only

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on September 04, 2003 02:25 AM
You mean, like this?

http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/sm/WF05a/124<nobr>5<wbr></nobr> 4-64287-89301-321860-f9-337529.html

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Re:Web page shows MS only

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on September 04, 2003 03:37 AM
If that link doesn't work, go to

http://www.hp.com/sbso/product/npi.html

and scroll down to the PC & Workstations section, click on the d220, then the configure and buy button. It is the second item down.

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Re:Web page shows MS only

Posted by: Joe Barr on September 04, 2003 08:04 PM

Try this <A HREF="http://www.smb.compaq.com/ctoBases.asp?ProductLineId=429&FamilyId=1602&LowBaseId=9124&LowPrice=$317.00viewalld220s&oi=E9CED&BEID=19701&SBLID=" TITLE="compaq.com"> link</a compaq.com>. It is working this morning.

Joe Barr

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Keyboard Question...

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on September 04, 2003 01:49 AM
What about those Windows Logo keys? Have they been replaced with Tux Logo keys?<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;) Or did HP include stickers that the user can peel-and-stick for himself while installing Mandrake?

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Re:Keyboard Question...

Posted by: Joe Barr on September 04, 2003 11:34 AM

That's a good question. I should have thought to ask HP. On the system they sent me, the Windows Logo keys are there, but then they sent me a Windows model of the d220.

Joe Barr

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Can't go very far using little steps: (stupid guy)

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on September 04, 2003 02:10 AM
I am glad that HP decided to give this a try but it's not exactly the linup I was looking for. The option of providing a PC with Linux at this point should be a no brainer for an OEM like HP. I hope that the lack of selection and a well hidden web page doesn't turn this into a case of "We tried selling Linux PC's and see no one bought them.. " They need to take the next step and offer a broad line of offerings, it doesn't even have to be the whole line but at least make it available on at 25% of the desktop offerings. A toe dip in the water will not prove well to test the market share. Who outside of this website and Mandrakes website knows about this? The days of Linux being a tech or hobby system or numbered and who ever get's a foot hold early is that much better off. The business risk is minimal , Linux doesn't cost anything and if you don't sell your units with Linux then OK ship it out with Windows and then you can say I told you so if it doesn't work out after a year or two.. They should have learned from Dell about Linux, Dell didn't push it they way the should have but we then again your not going to get kick backs from selling Linux<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.. =>

cheers..
(stupid guy)

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HP and Linux

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on September 04, 2003 02:20 AM
I've been using one for a few days, not bad with the transition from Slackware to Mandrake is the biggest bump in the road. I got the 2Ghz Celeron with 384mb ram and an external Zoom modem. Overall, very nice box. BTW, I was replacing an aging home brew and wasn't feeling up to rolling another. Lastly, Mandrake went in effortlessly. Recommended!

Joe

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SuSE Linux on Walmart.com PC's

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on September 04, 2003 06:46 AM
Walmart.com has them now, several models from $300 up. I hate to dump this in a HP thread, but I'm excited that Walmart has something besides Lindows (Debian) and Lycoris on it's Linux PC's. One probably does not get the CD's which is a disadvantage. I would want to partition the HD, and install Windows 98, then place SuSE on top of that. The HP with a blank drive would work well for that, one could set the drive up with tomsrtbt linux and go from there. BTW, I hear that Debian's apt-get will work with Lindows, (they have it in there) and one can download applications, etc. with apt-get instead of "Click N Run Warehouse".

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Re:SuSE Linux on Walmart.com PC's

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on September 06, 2003 06:06 PM
The Walmart PCs are said to be a nice basic PC. I run Lindows and yes, it is based on debian (sarge) and apt-get is an alternative. CNR is a nice extra for new users as it makes install very easy. However, if I want the most recent version then apt-get or compile.

I know a few who have bought thw Walmart PC and simply installed their fav brand of Linx.

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RE: waste of time

Posted by: alex116 bus on September 04, 2003 11:20 AM
Linux is more than just few lines of code in the kernel which even if SCO wins it's case ( seems like the donkey has a better chance to learn how to fly before they do.) the lines can be removed and replaced. plus linux is a complete set of applications , packages, and a desktop interface.
Hello !!! does SCO owns : kde<nobr> <wbr></nobr>,open office, Emacs, Galeon, Gimp , Evolution.......
Linux will never die!!! SCO is dead, even if they win.

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Re: waste of time

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on September 04, 2003 08:45 PM
as much as i agree with your last statement, I have to contend that Linux is just the kernel. The other applications and base GNU packages are separate from the Linux kernel. If, by some terrible, unfortunate court ruling, linux is suddenly "gone", most of these applications you name will simply be fully ported to bsd or some equivalent. If you have noticed, the SCO lawsuit is not targeted at linux it self, it is at IBM for purportedly introducing code into the linux kernel that is SCO's IP. I believe this in itself is bogus but we will have to see how this plays out. But, as I've always stated, it will be a very cold day in hell before they[SCO] sees a cent for any of my linux installs.

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Re: waste of time

Posted by: alex116 bus on September 05, 2003 12:24 PM
The Linux kernel is based on modules which can be loaded or unloaded , added or removed . SCO does not own the entire kernel.let us say that they own x number of modules or lines of codes within x number of modules then a custom modules can be written and compiled without any use of SCO code.
Applications<nobr> <wbr></nobr>,desktop technologies such as KDE and GNOME..obtained from BSD or other sources can still be used with the Linux kernel and represents the efforts of many people around the world. In that sense how and why SCO should charge you for the work of so many people around the world ? Linux will never die even if they win !!!

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/. comments

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on September 04, 2003 03:02 PM

There's article on <A HREF="http://slashdot.org/articles/03/09/03/1328207.shtml?tid=126&tid=137&tid=163&tid=173&tid=187" TITLE="slashdot.org">slashdot here</a slashdot.org> with more comments and a link back to this story.

--

  <A HREF="http://www.mutley.uklinux.net/" TITLE="uklinux.net">www.mutley.uklinux.net</a uklinux.net>

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Why the crap Celeron in this PC?

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on September 04, 2003 05:10 PM
The Celeron is uncompetitive with AMD processors. The only possible reason to ever use a Celeron in a PC is to have the "Intel Inside" logo, which makes know-nothings feel comfortable. But such people will always buy Microsoft anyway. Someone who seriously considers Linux will want the best price/performance for the whole system, which pretty much rules out the Celeron.

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Re:Why the crap Celeron in this PC?

Posted by: Chris Spencer on September 05, 2003 02:43 AM
You just answered your own question. To have the "Intel Inside" logo. Out of everyone I've ever met, very few knew that Intel's were crap and even fewer knew that AMD's were the best. Sad but true...

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Re:Why the crap Celeron in this PC?

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on September 19, 2003 05:07 AM
well, with AMD I'm pretty sure they couldn't make it as cool and quiet as this guys says they are.

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Re:Why the crap Celeron in this PC?

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on September 19, 2003 09:03 PM
... What about the crap Durons?

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pub

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on September 17, 2003 09:27 PM
Pourquoi faut'il qu'il y ai une publicité Microsoft en plein milieu de cet article sur linux ?

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