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First look at Sun's new desktop

By on September 17, 2003 (8:00:00 AM)

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- by Chris Gulker -
SAN FRANCISCO -- Sun Microsystems' new Gnome-derived <SLASH HREF="//linux.com/relocate.pl?id=59b093f31a27f9272e68bb4462397c27" ID="deeeaf517f4ac74ffe13d8e321651b3c" TITLE="http://wwws.sun.com/software/javadesktopsystem/index.html" TYPE="LINK">Java Desktop System</SLASH> is one part of a strategy that CEO Scott McNealy says will reduce the costs -- and head count -- of the IT industry by an order of magnitude over the next five years. I put a beta version of Sun's desktop, previously code-named Mad Hatter, through its paces, running on Sun's servers. I have plans to run it on x86 machines in an attempt to see if this open source derivative is the equal of Microsoft on the desktop.

On-the-spot first test

My first stop after Tuesday’s keynote presos at SunNetwork was the bank of Sun Ray thin clients arrayed along one wall in the North Hall of Moscone Center. Every attendee at the SunNetwork conference was issued a Java Card in lieu of the usual mag-stripe conference badge that grants the holder a full desktop, with e-mail client, browser, and a full suite of apps, including the newly released Star Office 7 on any of the hall's computers.

I slipped my Java Card into the reader on the side of the very nice 17-inch flat panel of a Sun Ray 150. Immediately a little animated graphic popped up, showing my diskless, OS-less, and stateless Sun Ray attempting a connection to a gateway server. A graphic of an animated lock popped up, opened, and then, bummer, an "Internal PAM error" dialog box with a rather unhelpful OK button appeared. Not good.

After a couple more fits, starts, and blank screens, a Solaris splash screen appeared, then a Gnome 2.0 line in one corner, and up came my pleasant blue desktop, looking for all the world like the Mad Hatter desktop I'd seen Friday at Sun and today at the keynote. It offered a Launch button where the Start button is found on most Windows screens, a Start Here icon that offered access to applications and preferences and a user folder (that identified me by number, not name) along with a trash can icon.

In fairness, conference-goers on either side of me had much less difficulty logging in.

Gnome look and feel

Unlike Windows, this desktop features a top-of-screen menu bar -- actually a long, thin Gnome panel -- positioned not unlike the bar that greets Mac users, with items labeled Programs and Actions. The Programs menu, Start Here icon and Launch button all offered different ways to get to the same underlying apps, preferences, and data.

For a knowledgeable user, that's good and lets a body work the way they're most comfortable. In the IT environment of a large, non-technical company, however, it would probably be a nightmare of confusion and lost productivity without a couple days' training. To be fair, this terminal was located at a Sun developer's conference where everybody in the hall short of building staff are probably among the most computer-literate people in the world.

Both McNealy and Sun software VP Jonathan Schwartz pointed out during keynote speeches that the Java Desktop System is a part of the Java Enterprise System, which allows administrators to completely customize the behavior of the desktop; indeed, Schwartz demonstrated tuning Star Office 7 on just such a desktop to the granular level of defining what macros would be allowed to run.

I looked around for Evolution, part of the announced Java Desktop System package, but to no avail. I did finally find a simple mail app in a subfolder on the Launch menu, and configured it to check my IMAP server. No dice ... no mail and no error messages helpful or otherwise. I sent a message, cc'ing myself, and it seemed to go; it went to the Sent folder anyway, but nothing showed up in the In box. The machine did inform me it was creating a mail spool for me somewhere on the vast Sun server that powered this machine.

The Mozilla browser, nicely themed to match the desktop, came up into a Sun portal page, politely asking me (by name, not number) to change my log-in from the conference default. That accomplished, I had no problem getting to Net resources like a Webmail system.

Useful for workers with good skills

This desktop, which I'm presuming is the Java Desktop System's immediate predecessor (Java Desktop System is based on Gnome 2.2, not 2.0, according to Sun's desktop technology VP Curtis Sasaki). Like other relatively polished, enterprise-oriented versions of Gnome (Ximian XD2 comes to mind), this desktop should be useful to office workers with good computer skills and could work for some with more modest skills with appropriate configuration and training.

Desktops like this one differ from Windows and even Mac just by degree of polish and fit and finish. Cut and paste worked just about everywhere I tried, though some of the open source apps behave a bit differently from the more uniform Star Office 7 applications. For example, terminal windows treat Control-C differently than Star Office Writer, but an average office worker will never see a terminal window.

Gnome and some apps could do a better job of alerting users to lengthy processes, e.g. application launches. I'm happy to click and wait patiently to see if something will happen, but many productivity workers get lost or confused when they click and nothing happens -- not a watch, an hourglass, or a spinning ball -- to let them know something's working.

Interaction with MS documents in Star Office 7 was perfect as far as I could see in my brief spin. I repeated Schwartz's keynote demo by going to microsoft.com and opening documents like Bill Gates's most recent PowerPoint preso, which came up seemingly without flaw in Star Office. I wasn't able to find documents that contained macros to at least briefly test Star Office 7's new macro compatibility.

Star Office did offer an export to PDF option, but I couldn't find the Acrobat Reader that Sun announced would be part of Java Desktop System, along with Macromedia Flash and Real players. Again, I suspect this is Java Desktop System's predecessor, and not Mad Hatter itself.

Verdict: It's quite good enough

My verdict after a first look is that, properly managed, this desktop should be about as productive in at least some enterprise settings as Windows 98 or 2000. The problems it exhibits are really those shared with virtually every computer OS at the current state of the art, as opposed to being uniquely open source issues.

It remains to be seen if businesses truly can save money with Java Desktop System, since migration issues and the availability of key enterprise applications will play into that equation. This desktop, covered by Sun's new, simple, and seemingly inexpensive licensing, called Orion, may be very interesting to cost-conscious companies. In any case, enterprises are likely to find that this desktop is good enough and ready to deploy for at least some classes of workers.

Chris Gulker, a Silicon Valley-based free-lance technology writer, has authored more than 130 articles and columns since 1998. He shares an office with 7 computers that mostly work, an Australian Shepherd, and a small gray cat with an attitude.

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on First look at Sun's new desktop

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Java??

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on September 17, 2003 01:56 PM
so where is tha Java part of this desktop??
so far all we hear about is plain ol' gnome, Mozilla and StarOffice.

whats the point of this desktop??
what does it offer that isn't already possible in GNU/Linux distros.

and no centralized configuration can be done using cfengine so it doesn't count.

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Re:Java??

Posted by: CJ Preimesberger on September 17, 2003 02:03 PM
No need for JVM with this desktop<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... all integrated.

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Re:Java??

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on September 17, 2003 03:39 PM
Java integrated with what? Mozilla?

Why call it Java Desktop System? People will think the whole desktop is written in Java and thus being slow as h**l...

Stupid. One would think that someone @ SUN would have some self-criticism.

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Re:Java??

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on September 17, 2003 06:31 PM
what do you mean no need for JVM, Java doesn't work without a JVM (unless you'll use gcj).

or do you mean no need to manualy install a JVM ?? big deal.

and integerated where exactly?? what user visible or admin visible original features rely on Java??

sounds like vaporware to me.

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Re:Java??

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on September 18, 2003 01:59 AM
I would be willing wager that "no jvm" means that java byte code is considered native code; similar to<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.NET. This has a huge advantage to people who use a large number of java apps, in that a new jvm won't be needed for each new java app that is run. Performance should be increased, and managing java libs & classpaths will hopefully be simplified.

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Re:Java??

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on September 18, 2003 05:21 AM
well this isn't mentioned anywhere, but if it is true is it possible to implement this without messing with the kernel??

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Re:Java??

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on September 19, 2003 11:44 PM

While it's already possible to have pseudo java binary support with the
linux kernel using CONFIG_BINFMT_MISC, I doubt that this desktop software would even try to mess with setting it up. Most likely, JVM integration means that there is a wrapper to invoke the java binary when one is double-clicked on in Nautilus. Whoopdie doo.

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Java is just a marketing BS. As usually.

Posted by: axxackall on September 22, 2003 03:37 PM
It's just a merketing BS.


1. Sun supports SCO and Microsoft in the battle against Linux. That's why instead of calling it Linux desktop they call it Java desktop. They try to safe the face.


2. Sun's business model around java is failing apart. At the same time the hardware sales are shrinking thanks to IBM's wise choice to sell Linux on all hardware platforms and thanks to overpriced bad quality of Sparcs. So, investors begin to ask: "Show me my money!". In such situation it's a good chance to show up "Java" flag one more time, instead of showing "Linux" word and trying to explain it to already angree investors.

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What is their businessmodel?

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on September 17, 2003 02:44 PM
Is it our beloved open source business-model 1) Do free stuff 2) ? 3) Profit or do we have to pay for it?

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New Licensing Scheme Just Another Licensing 6.0

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on September 17, 2003 02:55 PM
At first the new licensing scheme from Sun sounded radical, and customer friendly. Mr. Schwartz claimed it would save customers money. But on reflection, and further research, it sounds alot like Microsoft's Licensing 6.0 scam. For the Java Enterprise System $100 per employee per year. Not bad, except right off the bat it turns out this only covers apps (like directory, application/web and mail services), not O/S (Solaris) and hardware maintenance. ALso turns out its limited to stuff running on Sun hardware. Then it turns out that my company, at a puny 10,000 employees will not be entitled to bundled maintenance on the software, just some incident vouchers (remmember the old MSDN Universal subscription?). So just for our apps we'd have to pay $100,000. But right now we're probably paying less than $10,000 (we use the Sun directory server, but are transitioning from the Enterprise server to Apache and BEA). And the desktop? That's not included in the $100/employee/year. It's another $50/employee/year ($100 if we don't go for Enterprise licensing). So I wind up paying $150,000 per year to get in "on the ground floor" of what Sun claims will be a sea change in IT. Thinking about it now, what I think Sun has done is make the move to Open Source even more inevitable. With all of the major IT vendors now promoting extortionate licensing programs IT execs won't have any choice but to turn to the OSS proponents in their companies and give us another hearing. Carpe diem folks -- seize the day. And thank you, Sun, for pushing the whole proprietary software world over the cliff -- finally.

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Re:New Licensing Scheme Just Another Licensing 6.0

Posted by: CJ Preimesberger on September 18, 2003 06:56 AM
Interesting information. Would you mind e-mailing editors@newsforge.com and asking for EditingWhiz? I have some other questions for you. Thanks.

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Re:New Licensing Scheme Just Another Licensing 6.0

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on September 18, 2003 03:25 PM

The other thing that strikes me about this scheme is the re-centralization of data, resources, and control. This was very characteristic of a time not too long ago when companies relied almost exclusively on data centers and dumb terminals. While the terminals in this case aren't exactly "dumb" since the the processing occurs locally, it definitely diminishes the relative autonomy that has existed for the past 20 years or so. Companies may save some cash over the current arrangement, but I'd venture to say that there may be other, less visible costs - reduced flexibility for one.

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Bizarre

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on September 17, 2003 04:27 PM
Quite funny really...
My Mandrake 9.1 runs with Acrobat reader, Flash, Java, Realplayer plugins all installed.
And yes, it took me 10 minutes to read some lines of text, download a couple of things and install them properly. I agree inserting a "Java card" (oh please) was faster.
But hey, I didn't have to pay a thing, and my box seems to be doing exactly the same (well, not really, mine actually works!)
Mandrake Java 9.1??<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;-))

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Re:Bizarre

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on September 17, 2003 07:11 PM
and if you pay for the boxed edition you don't even need to read some lines of test or download anythinf, you get it all out of the box.
neat eh??

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Re:Bizarre

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on September 17, 2003 08:57 PM
Great. Pity Mandrake is on it's way out fincancially.

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Re:Bizarre

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on September 18, 2003 05:26 AM
hah you wish.
a company can have financial problems and survive them and Mandrake is on its way out of its financial problems, having loyal customers and uers helps.

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Feedback on application startup

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on September 17, 2003 06:13 PM
gnome2 supports feedback (hourglass, displaying something in the window list) on application startup. It definitely works for all gnome2 apps and should also work for other apps (though not as good). Either this is turned off somewhere, or sun didn't build gnome with startup notification support (it's a seperate lib available from <A HREF="http://www.freedesktop.org/" TITLE="freedesktop.org">freedesktop.org</a freedesktop.org>).

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WebTV???

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on September 17, 2003 07:08 PM
Sounds like the Classic WebTV to me,I even had a creditcard reader on mine.

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Re:WebTV???

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on September 19, 2003 10:51 AM
yeah, i was rather fond of my WebTV. then M$ bought them and i had to find another means of avoiding the Beast.

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Sun must make money

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on September 17, 2003 09:07 PM
As another poster said, Sun isn't after the low life of companies that must struggle for a living. They are after the mythical market of companies that don't care about a hundred thousand or two.

Trouble is that HP has that mostly sewn up with their high-level schmoozing, big parties, associations with SAP&MS, Itanium-dogs, and weird PC's. IBM and Sun must fight for the scraps, and bump up against Dell.

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So I take it...

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on September 17, 2003 09:20 PM
That the only difference between this and any other Gnome-enabled desktop OS is a Sun-produced Metacity theme, bundled StarOffice, and a lot of $$? From the sound of the review, Sun's done scant little to actually add anything. What value, exactly, has Sun added here?

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Re:So I take it...

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on September 17, 2003 10:23 PM
zero (0)

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what value they have added is

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on September 18, 2003 02:27 AM
Complete integration with Solaris / Oracle on the back end. We are talking Mission Critical applications here, with full support from the vendor. Try asking a bearded hippie on alt.linux.help for help with your billion dollar deployment. It simply is a new market for Sun, one that I hope they will succeed in.

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NO Spam in this desktop

Posted by: Glanz on September 18, 2003 03:58 AM
The wonderful thing about this desktop is that the mail doesn't work. That way there's a no-SPAM guarantee. The unworkable mail client doesn't cost extra, but if you want mail, SUN will provide a discount, I hope. This only takes a 8GHz processor so it's within the reach of just about everyone. Good work SUN... keep it up!

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You were NOT using Mad Hatter

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on September 18, 2003 04:35 AM
The mad hatter system is only available for Linux right now - not SUNRAY

What you were using is the Solaris Gnome that is typically available for Sunray users.

- David

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cheaper, better, faster

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on September 18, 2003 12:53 PM
Grab a good sized intel box say a 4 way with 8 G of ram, now install the latest copy of mandrake (they have the best desktop). Now install the system making sure to make KDE the default desktop(best and lighter than gnome in a thin client environment). Now enable kdm no big deal one file to edit. Ok now that our server work is done lets build some clients. Take any linux client and modify the inittab to query the server for it's display (do all this with redhat kickstart 300 or so clients in a day). On day two sit back and relax and watch it run.

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Half-baked idea

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on September 19, 2003 01:31 AM
"SAN FRANCISCO -- Sun Microsystems' new Gnome-derived Java Desktop System is one part of a strategy that CEO Scott McNealy says will reduce the costs -- and head count -- of the IT industry by an order of magnitude over the next five years. "

Yeah! Just what we need. Let's reduce that money-sapping headcount. Me? I'm going into baked goods. Kind of hard to downsize or outsource that.

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DON'T FORGET - SUN backed SCO in LINUX battle...

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on September 20, 2003 04:35 AM
We shall see if the SUN bet to back SCO...
will haunt SUN in the future.

I think that SUN's LINUX position CHICKENS will COME HOME TO ROOST and their anti-LINUX PRO-SCO position will, in certain cases, cost them (in shops with die hard young LINUX youths doing the new LINUX IT work... who LOVE their LINUX and HATE SCO) We shall see how history treats those who decided to join with SCO and MICROSOFT on the dark side.

At this point in time if SUN said they were sorry to LINUX users for backing SCO and came out strong PRO-LINUX and anti-SCO... then, maybe the LINUX users might "think" about accepting a truthful and honest SUN appology. BUT, if SUN continues to be two-faced and if SUN continues to back SCO's battle against LINUX... - then, they will be remembered for who they are!

For the latest on SCO-IBM-LINUX battle (SEC filings, SCO stock trades, court room proceedings, and more)...go to pj's new site at:

http://www.GROKLAW.com

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Folks LOVE LINUX better than UNIX, MS, SUN, SCO...

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on September 20, 2003 10:40 AM
It is just plain ol' better for everyone!

The only reason why open-source and LINUX has already been accepted in the commercial and non-commercial space is this: the monopoly positions held by the other operating systems held back software and hardware development, period. Everybody knows this! Before LINUX: For any author of a software application to do anything, they first needed to have the blessings of the owner of the OS that the software was to run on (and then they had to pray that the owner of the OS did not try to develop the same application and include it for free as part of the OS). The same held true for hardware development as hardware engineers could do nothing without the blessings of the owner of the OS! Business and personal use of software was also being held up while customers waited for software improvements -that in turn were waiting for periodic improvements in an operating system -that were in turn being held back due to unrelated economic reasons that were ONLY specific to the financial reports for the company that "owned" that operating system.

Linus Torvalds, with the GNU/LINUX GPL preamble freed us all from the problems with the old OS model that you are now saying that we need to go back to!

Linux provides a "neutral" OS kernel that gives all a level playing field to do our computer related business or pleasure on! With the GNU/LINUX GPL we have freedom from the OS dictators, at last!

Yep - with LINUX... If someone wants to create a "better LINUX user application" that addresses user needs better than any other LINUX application, and the application developer wants to copyright and keep proprietary this application, then with Linux... THEY ARE *FREE* TO DO IT! LINUX says that they can keep it proprietary and make money from it without the LINUX kernel folks suddenly wanting to jump into the same business! Microsoft, SCO, and SUN can not make the same claim... they all have application ownership issues that can conflict with other developer of applications! This is why everyone likes LINUX better!

What does SUN take us for - do they think that we are a bunch of idiots?
Oh - by the way Darl, oops I mean McNealy, enterprises already trust the open-source GNU/LINUX GPL model, or did you not notice this. NO one even cares about this indemnification idea that marketing came up with in the past year! SCO and Microsoft have a history with many that, well has pissed us off... and if SUN keeps it up then SUN will end up in the same boat as SCO and Microsoft!

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GrokLaw reader- How LINUX got on SPARC at work?

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on September 20, 2003 07:22 PM



  http://www.groklaw.com/article.php?story=20030919<nobr>1<wbr></nobr> 95024881#comments
Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, September 20 2003 @ 01:12 AM EDT
It sorta hits you after a while.

"You spend your work day compiling/installing open source software (which was really written with linux in mind) on your Solaris/Sparc machines. You talk to other sys admin friends that are happy with linux on cheap intel machines. You go home and use linux on your desktop. You enjoy reading the linux related websites and feeling like part of a community. And you ask yourself, why don't I just run linux on my Sparcs at work? So you install it on one spare server to try it out<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.... and its bliss. You fall in love with debian apt package management. The same system you run at home, you now run at work, and things just feel more coherent. All that free software out there now compiles and works without any of the snags you used to get. Slowly, linux makes its way onto your other Sparcs.

Thats how it went for me at least. Take CIS and engineering students who now grew up with windows and linux on their desktop and slowly move them into sys admin positions with Solaris<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... we know what will happen. Sun can't fight the future. "

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Re:DON'T FORGET - SUN backed SCO in LINUX battle..

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on September 21, 2003 12:55 PM
I think you have a problem with your caps-lock key.. It keeps going on and off at various points in your text, maybe you shouldput it in the dishwasher?

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