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Feature: Linux
Microsoft asks Linux users, "How can we get your business?'
By Robin 'Roblimo' Miller
on
December 21, 2003 (8:00:00 AM)
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Microsoft has started distributing two online surveys to Linux User Groups and Linux users in general, one asking primarily about home computer use, the other about business use. They apparently don't plan to release the results of their surveys, so we and other people in the open source community are asking you to look at them and post your answers and comments here and on other appropriate sites where, in open source style, everyone can see them. Read on for more information and links, and please help spread the word about these surveys; as far as we know, this is the first time Microsoft has asked Linux users why we use Linux instead of their products, and the more results, the merrier. Author's Note: I'll reveal some of *my* answers to Microsoft's questions in a comment I'll post shortly after this story goes live, just to kick things off.
We heard about this survey through an email sent to a LUG mailing list that was passed on to us. The email started with these lines:
A follow-up message in response to a fellow OSDN employee who emailed to ask, "Have you contacted just our LUG, or more than one?" said:
I am a program manager at Microsoft doing some research around how we can improve our operating systems. My goal is to help us identify capabilities, improvements, and features that Microsoft should be focusing on to help our customers over the next 5 years or so.It was signed by "Michael Surkan," using the "Reply To" address lnq@microsoft.com.
I am particularly interested in hearing from Linux users, and get their input about what they feel should be the priorities. In particular, I would like to better understand what it is that makes Linux and Open Source solutions so useful for you.
A follow-up message in response to a fellow OSDN employee who emailed to ask, "Have you contacted just our LUG, or more than one?" said:
From: frankwilliams291@hotmail.com (Frank Williams)So go ahead, make Frank and Michael happy by answering the questions. But please don't forget to share at least a few selected answers with others, either here on NewsForge or on other Linux/open source news and community sites.
To: [name and email address removed]
Thanks so much for agreeing to share your ideas about Linux. Unfortunately, Michael Surkan (the Microsoft program manager who contacted your Linux user group) is a bit overwhelmed with e-mail right now, so I volunteered to help him by sending the survey URLs to people who want to take his survey. I hope you don't mind.
Michael has put together some on-line surveys to make it easier to collect your answers.
One survey asks questions about Linux in the home environment. The other survey asks what makes Linux a great option at work. You can take whichever survey you feel you have the most knowledge about. Feel free to take both surveys if you wish. Or none at all. :)
On-line survey about Linux in the home:
http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.asp?u=17174325370&c=2206
On-line survey about Linux at work:
http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.asp?u=2550325411&c=2206
Thanks,
Frank Williams
Comments
on Microsoft asks Linux users, "How can we get your business?'Note: Comments are owned by the poster. We are not responsible for their content.
Interesting. I don't intend to submit my answers to Microsoft because I am unwilling to allow them to use them on any terms but my own. But I went through the survey before I read your responses. My top two improvements to Windows were:
"Release the source code under either the GNU Public License or the BSD license. Stop introducing security holes and calling them features."
One of the things that is obvious about this survey is that it is a fishing expedition for weak points in Linux and the open source community that Microsoft can exploit. Because the survey was not offered honestly, I hope that no one is offering them honest answers.
"Release the source code under either the GNU Public License or the BSD license. Stop introducing security holes and calling them features."
One of the things that is obvious about this survey is that it is a fishing expedition for weak points in Linux and the open source community that Microsoft can exploit. Because the survey was not offered honestly, I hope that no one is offering them honest answers.
Intriquing... so you're saying that it is best to stoop to their level of lying to even the score, by using their tactics against them.. I like that tactic, actually.. just remember that when it all boils down to it, those with true business sense will see the true holes to 'exploit', and we all know that Gates is the dictator of that arena.
I think what he was suggesting was nothing of the sort. He wasn't saying to lie, he was saying he didn't fill out the survey and wouldn't suggest anyone does either.
One of the things that is obvious about this survey is that it is a fishing expedition for weak points in Linux and the open source community that Microsoft can exploit I have no doubt that this would be true .
Trust m$, never .
I bet hes hoping for all the newbie comments.To say look how hard it is to install.
I notice hes hell bent on making the dummies agree to his Legal Agreement. If they were really just interested in comments to help them make m$ better there is absolutly no need for a Legal Agreement. Fishy is the comment here
Trust m$, never .
I bet hes hoping for all the newbie comments.To say look how hard it is to install.
I notice hes hell bent on making the dummies agree to his Legal Agreement. If they were really just interested in comments to help them make m$ better there is absolutly no need for a Legal Agreement. Fishy is the comment here
I don't know about the more intuitive and simpler to understand part. I find Linux's intuitive part acceptable but there could be major improvements especially in system configuration and management department. There are definitely a lot of little quarks that will frustrate the average user.
- I don't know about the more intuitive and simpler to understand part. I find Linux's intuitive part acceptable but there could be major improvements especially in system configuration and management department. There are definitely a lot of little quarks that will frustrate the average user.
As there are with Windows. Most of the problems I see with either are the same, with most of the benifits being on the Linux side. Some things under Windows take an extreme effort to discover if it is at all possible, while they are out in the open with Linux.
Well, perhaps it's true, but what Linux lacks is hardware producers' support. And often it comes to situation, when user has to create it's own ModeLines to make his monitor work as he wants or other strange things which have more to do with general computer knowledge than system itself.
I know that it's not Linux creators' fault, but a "status quo" is a "status quo".
Also - frontends for most system and application settings are really poor or non-existent. Whatever you do, it always ends in hand editing some strange configuration text files. It's unacceptable.
I know that it's not Linux creators' fault, but a "status quo" is a "status quo".
Also - frontends for most system and application settings are really poor or non-existent. Whatever you do, it always ends in hand editing some strange configuration text files. It's unacceptable.
Unacceptable? Why?
I have been using some form of Unix for twenty years. I use Linux because it is Unix-compatible and
it happens to be pretty good in most respects.
it happens to be pretty good in most respects.
I know lots of folks have said, "Don't take the survey!" But I really couldn't help but reply to the lats couple of questions:
How to improve Windows?
Improve the company that makes Windows: Were we to develop a multimedia product for Linux, we could be far more certain that our Linux vendor would not eventually take over the whole market pie (like a Commie Dictator) by obscuring the API to Linux and using other draconian tactics.
You have embittered the very people who once rallied to your banner and helped you build a once great product. We don't fear Open Source for any reason; We fear Microsoft.
How to improve Linux:
Take over 99.9% of the consumer, embedded, laptop, desktop and server markets -- faster than it has been. Put the Destroyer of free and open computing markets out of business. BTW, this survey feels like being watched by an All Seeing Eye...
Great chance to express 5+ years of bitterness. Thanks, Microsoft researchers!
How to improve Windows?
Improve the company that makes Windows: Were we to develop a multimedia product for Linux, we could be far more certain that our Linux vendor would not eventually take over the whole market pie (like a Commie Dictator) by obscuring the API to Linux and using other draconian tactics.
You have embittered the very people who once rallied to your banner and helped you build a once great product. We don't fear Open Source for any reason; We fear Microsoft.
How to improve Linux:
Take over 99.9% of the consumer, embedded, laptop, desktop and server markets -- faster than it has been. Put the Destroyer of free and open computing markets out of business. BTW, this survey feels like being watched by an All Seeing Eye...
Great chance to express 5+ years of bitterness. Thanks, Microsoft researchers!
software install/uninstall is cleaner, but it's a PAIN IN THE ARSE!! and if you're using deb or rpm, it isn't cleaner at all! this is the one area where mickeysoft has it almost right, or at least a whole heck of a lot better than the free software cadre.
What is wrong with software uninstall with<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.debs? Personally, I've had to manually purge software from Windows without help from the uninstaller far more often than I've had to do for Linux when using Debian packages. I've had to manually uninstall both Office 97 and Office 2000 to fix installer problems, as well as countless 'free' and shareware programs from the Internet, along with the Novell Groupwise client, in-house developed applications, etc. I believe I've had problems uninstalling a Debian package once because of a prerm script that wouldn't complete.
Disagree vehemently. Apt and friends stomp all over install.exe or whatever.
I know *exactly* what files are included in the<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.deb, and where they are going to go. I can see them, browse the install package, if I have to.
In the very rare event that an uninstall barfs, I can find the problem and fix it.
When I update my system, *all* the software is updated if there are updates available, I don't have to do an update for this vendor's stuff, another for that vendor's stuff, and then there's those guys, and<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...
No way in hell am I giving up apt and friends.
I know *exactly* what files are included in the<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.deb, and where they are going to go. I can see them, browse the install package, if I have to.
In the very rare event that an uninstall barfs, I can find the problem and fix it.
When I update my system, *all* the software is updated if there are updates available, I don't have to do an update for this vendor's stuff, another for that vendor's stuff, and then there's those guys, and<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...
No way in hell am I giving up apt and friends.
I personal don't like rpm never have from my first install of linux . I use slackware and make my own packages with checkinstall or makepkg . But even witht he rpms you can look in the darn package and see where everything got installed and remove it . M$ if the app doesn't have the unistall feature then its hard to find out how to get rid of it .
Most ppl don't bother to read on how to install or unistall they expect it to all be done for them by hand like a baby.
I never tought I could make packages<nobr> <wbr></nobr>,fix configs<nobr> <wbr></nobr>,recompile the kernel , and tons of other stuff as I can now . Thanks to linux I've learned more in the time of using it than I ever could have in the same time I used m$ .
Also the support is greater than any for m$ and cost is horendous for m$ . It amazing how great linux is with little driver support for hardware from the manf. There are a few user friendly versions for the newbie but even when ppl told me to first try redhat I liked slackware and found it easier . The great part of linux is there is a lot of distributions to try lots of chioces
Most ppl don't bother to read on how to install or unistall they expect it to all be done for them by hand like a baby.
I never tought I could make packages<nobr> <wbr></nobr>,fix configs<nobr> <wbr></nobr>,recompile the kernel , and tons of other stuff as I can now . Thanks to linux I've learned more in the time of using it than I ever could have in the same time I used m$ .
Also the support is greater than any for m$ and cost is horendous for m$ . It amazing how great linux is with little driver support for hardware from the manf. There are a few user friendly versions for the newbie but even when ppl told me to first try redhat I liked slackware and found it easier . The great part of linux is there is a lot of distributions to try lots of chioces
my comment:
You guys could do many things better:
A) open your communication protocols
B) describe your file format ( example: MS WORD )
C) stop playing dirty games ( DR DOS, REALPLAYER, JAVA MS extension, KERBEROS extension.... etc etc) Unfortunately, plating dirty genes is embedded in your genes ( B.Gates, Ballmer) and I do not think you will change....
D) be HONEST/FAIR on the market ( the word "honesty" is UNKNOWN to MS)
When you do ALL from above, I will re-think my decision of NOT using WINDOWS
You guys could do many things better:
A) open your communication protocols
B) describe your file format ( example: MS WORD )
C) stop playing dirty games ( DR DOS, REALPLAYER, JAVA MS extension, KERBEROS extension.... etc etc) Unfortunately, plating dirty genes is embedded in your genes ( B.Gates, Ballmer) and I do not think you will change....
D) be HONEST/FAIR on the market ( the word "honesty" is UNKNOWN to MS)
When you do ALL from above, I will re-think my decision of NOT using WINDOWS
I did actually fill out the survey myself. I've been a long time Unix/Linux user and really don't see the harm in filling out the survey even if it is a fishing expedition for Microsoft to find holes in the Linux/Unix community.
Really, in the survey the only two negatives I had against Linux/Unix is that it needs to have better multimedia/gaming support and that it needs to be more streamlined. The first problem with Linux not having as good of gaming and multimedia support as Windows is really only a weakness if you're using your system to play games. As far as being more sreamlined, Linux has come a very long way in this department. Both Gnome and KDE are far more streamlined and more organized then in the past. The very existence of Gnome and KDE made linux far easier for the end user. But I still think the Linux community should agree to use either Gnome or KDE as a default desktop and put the other desktop as an alternative for those who prefer it. Whichever desktop is chosen as the default should be the default desktop on all the major distros. Then great effort should be placed on cleaning the desktop up and fixing all the major glitches bugs and features making them seamless to the end user.
As for Microsoft's own operating system, I had far more negative things to say about it. Firstly, security!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Microsoft has become far too lax in regard to security. Their entire OS is almost retardly designed to be as insecure as possible. In order to attain any level of security with the latest versions of Microsoft Windows you have to apply tons of patches and registry tweaks to get anywhere near the security level provided by Unix/Linux. Even when all the tweaks and updated and patches are installed you are still vulnerable to Viruses, worms, and spyware that are virutally non-existent in the Linux world.
Contrary to what many think, Linux inspite having many security holes of it's own is still far more secure then Microsoft Windows will ever be. For one thing, Linux doesn't automatically make every program you download executable. You have to manually make it executable in many cases. Secondly, a user on a Unix/Linux system can only modify files that they created or that they have full read/write/execute abilities over. They cannot modify critical system files without logging on with root access. Taking advantage of security flaws in Unix/Linux requires a much more in depth understanding of the operating system then in the Windows environment. Therefore, in the Unix/Linux world there are far fewer people who know how to exploit the weaknesses.
Additionally, security flaws in Linux are generally resolved much more rapidly then in the Microsoft world. Though there have been a few cases of security flaws taking a while to be patched in Linux, this tends to be the excveption rather then the rule. Furthermore, there are many Linux distros available each of which implements things differently. Because Linux is less predictable due to the many flavors available, it is also harder to hack.
In summary, Linux is far more secure, catching up in usability and multimedia, and makes a far better platform in a server environment then Microsoft Windows. I have had months upon months of uptime with my Red Hat Linux and Sun Boxes which would be unthinkable if the same systems ran Microsoft Windows. I never run into viruses, worms, trojans, spyware, or large amounts of spam that others experience. Unix/Linux is just a better platform!!
Microsoft cannot threaten Linux the way it has with its other competition. I will never go back to using Microsoft Windows as my primary OS ever again. Linux has few weaknesses. Microsoft has many! Eventually, I believe that Linux will win the war and that Microsoft Windows will start to lose a substantial amount of its userbase. Though I believe there will always be a Microsoft Windows Operating System I do not believe that it will dominate to the degree it has in the past.
Really, in the survey the only two negatives I had against Linux/Unix is that it needs to have better multimedia/gaming support and that it needs to be more streamlined. The first problem with Linux not having as good of gaming and multimedia support as Windows is really only a weakness if you're using your system to play games. As far as being more sreamlined, Linux has come a very long way in this department. Both Gnome and KDE are far more streamlined and more organized then in the past. The very existence of Gnome and KDE made linux far easier for the end user. But I still think the Linux community should agree to use either Gnome or KDE as a default desktop and put the other desktop as an alternative for those who prefer it. Whichever desktop is chosen as the default should be the default desktop on all the major distros. Then great effort should be placed on cleaning the desktop up and fixing all the major glitches bugs and features making them seamless to the end user.
As for Microsoft's own operating system, I had far more negative things to say about it. Firstly, security!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Microsoft has become far too lax in regard to security. Their entire OS is almost retardly designed to be as insecure as possible. In order to attain any level of security with the latest versions of Microsoft Windows you have to apply tons of patches and registry tweaks to get anywhere near the security level provided by Unix/Linux. Even when all the tweaks and updated and patches are installed you are still vulnerable to Viruses, worms, and spyware that are virutally non-existent in the Linux world.
Contrary to what many think, Linux inspite having many security holes of it's own is still far more secure then Microsoft Windows will ever be. For one thing, Linux doesn't automatically make every program you download executable. You have to manually make it executable in many cases. Secondly, a user on a Unix/Linux system can only modify files that they created or that they have full read/write/execute abilities over. They cannot modify critical system files without logging on with root access. Taking advantage of security flaws in Unix/Linux requires a much more in depth understanding of the operating system then in the Windows environment. Therefore, in the Unix/Linux world there are far fewer people who know how to exploit the weaknesses.
Additionally, security flaws in Linux are generally resolved much more rapidly then in the Microsoft world. Though there have been a few cases of security flaws taking a while to be patched in Linux, this tends to be the excveption rather then the rule. Furthermore, there are many Linux distros available each of which implements things differently. Because Linux is less predictable due to the many flavors available, it is also harder to hack.
In summary, Linux is far more secure, catching up in usability and multimedia, and makes a far better platform in a server environment then Microsoft Windows. I have had months upon months of uptime with my Red Hat Linux and Sun Boxes which would be unthinkable if the same systems ran Microsoft Windows. I never run into viruses, worms, trojans, spyware, or large amounts of spam that others experience. Unix/Linux is just a better platform!!
Microsoft cannot threaten Linux the way it has with its other competition. I will never go back to using Microsoft Windows as my primary OS ever again. Linux has few weaknesses. Microsoft has many! Eventually, I believe that Linux will win the war and that Microsoft Windows will start to lose a substantial amount of its userbase. Though I believe there will always be a Microsoft Windows Operating System I do not believe that it will dominate to the degree it has in the past.
Well written. One comment, however: I don't think it's possible to choose one desktop over the other at this stage in the game, because of the fact that there are really good applications written for both of them.
> "Taking advantage of security flaws in Unix/Linux requires a much more in depth understanding of the operating system then in the Windows environment."
Really..? why.
I think the oposite, having source code and an open environment makes it less hard to exploit these vulnerabilities.. atleast not harder than on windows..
The open nature for me is very natural, it results in more transparancy for bug fixing as well as bug exploiting..
It's also sad why some people say open source code is bad for security, nonsense.
If it is bad for security then this is probably something statistical, it cannot be proven at all, and if it were statistically more vulnerable, I'd still prefer the natural open source model.
Really..? why.
I think the oposite, having source code and an open environment makes it less hard to exploit these vulnerabilities.. atleast not harder than on windows..
The open nature for me is very natural, it results in more transparancy for bug fixing as well as bug exploiting..
It's also sad why some people say open source code is bad for security, nonsense.
If it is bad for security then this is probably something statistical, it cannot be proven at all, and if it were statistically more vulnerable, I'd still prefer the natural open source model.
Their entire OS is almost retardly designed to be as insecure as possible. In order to attain any level of security with the latest versions of Microsoft Windows you have to apply tons of patches and registry tweaks to get anywhere near the security level provided by Unix/Linux.
Thats true but users also wanted to share files and printers for example so something had to be left open to allow for that. More options such as by say filter by machine name or ip address would have been helpful.
Even when all the tweaks and updated and patches are installed you are still vulnerable to Viruses, worms, and spyware that are virutally non-existent in the Linux world.
Well viruses because it's the most popular OS. That has nothing to do with security if a virus infects the system because of a user running an executable with a virus attached to it. It would help though if the user didn't need admin privaleges to run it. As for worms, most spread by using a previously known security hole for which a patch has been released. It's users lazyness of not wanting to patch that cause it to spread. Maybe closing the feature that used it in the first place would help as well but for users that want to share files and folders, you sacrifice something. Spyware is basically the same thing. Enabling plugins to install easily was microsoft's main idea in activex and so they only allowed signed activex components to run. Limiting what they could do like java's sandbox would definately help their.
Contrary to what many think, Linux inspite having many security holes of it's own is still far more secure then Microsoft Windows will ever be. For one thing, Linux doesn't automatically make every program you download executable. You have to manually make it executable in many cases.
But once linux comes to the masses, they WILL want certain files to be automatically executable. For example<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.bin files. The paranoid can still disable this feature but for the mass amount of users out there, they want this feature.
Secondly, a user on a Unix/Linux system can only modify files that they created or that they have full read/write/execute abilities over.
And the same thing with a windows users system if they're not running as an administrator.
They cannot modify critical system files without logging on with root access. Taking advantage of security flaws in Unix/Linux requires a much more in depth understanding of the operating system then in the Windows environment.
And one linux company, lindows, has set this up so that by default you login as root access because thats what end users want. If you don't cator to them you lose market share.
Therefore, in the Unix/Linux world there are far fewer people who know how to exploit the weaknesses.
Only because there are very much fewer actual end users and far more people that care about security then how easy something is to use. Once linux is fed to the masses, and is as easy to use as windows, then it will be open to the same security weaknesses that windows has right now that you've pointed out.
Because Linux is less predictable due to the many flavors available, it is also harder to hack.
But if one organization decides to go with one linux distributor and someone finds a security hole related to that distributor it doesn't matter how many flavours of linux are out there. It also doesn't matter that a flaw was discovered recently in the linux kernel, therefore every flavour was effected. Besides, when was the last time you heard of a flaw in the kernel microsoft uses in a particular form of windows?
In summary, Linux is far more secure, catching up in usability and multimedia, and makes a far better platform in a server environment then Microsoft Windows. I have had months upon months of uptime with my Red Hat Linux and Sun Boxes which would be unthinkable if the same systems ran Microsoft Windows. I never run into viruses, worms, trojans, spyware, or large amounts of spam that others experience. Unix/Linux is just a better platform!!
True linux is a better server, but its not a good gaming/workstation/multimedia platform. As for security holes, I seem to get just as many notices for security holes in the linux servers here that run redhat as I do for windows. If a linux distributor took out all the programs that they use and start concentrating on the usability aspect I believe there would be less patches then. I want a linux distribution as easy to use as windows and so far lindows has come the closest to that offering the bare minimum for applications included just like windows. Now all we need are better hardware support, easier driver installation, easier program install/removal, a standard gui so that the user doesn't have to choose, etc...you get the gist of what I'm try to say.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)
Thats true but users also wanted to share files and printers for example so something had to be left open to allow for that. More options such as by say filter by machine name or ip address would have been helpful.
Even when all the tweaks and updated and patches are installed you are still vulnerable to Viruses, worms, and spyware that are virutally non-existent in the Linux world.
Well viruses because it's the most popular OS. That has nothing to do with security if a virus infects the system because of a user running an executable with a virus attached to it. It would help though if the user didn't need admin privaleges to run it. As for worms, most spread by using a previously known security hole for which a patch has been released. It's users lazyness of not wanting to patch that cause it to spread. Maybe closing the feature that used it in the first place would help as well but for users that want to share files and folders, you sacrifice something. Spyware is basically the same thing. Enabling plugins to install easily was microsoft's main idea in activex and so they only allowed signed activex components to run. Limiting what they could do like java's sandbox would definately help their.
Contrary to what many think, Linux inspite having many security holes of it's own is still far more secure then Microsoft Windows will ever be. For one thing, Linux doesn't automatically make every program you download executable. You have to manually make it executable in many cases.
But once linux comes to the masses, they WILL want certain files to be automatically executable. For example<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.bin files. The paranoid can still disable this feature but for the mass amount of users out there, they want this feature.
Secondly, a user on a Unix/Linux system can only modify files that they created or that they have full read/write/execute abilities over.
And the same thing with a windows users system if they're not running as an administrator.
They cannot modify critical system files without logging on with root access. Taking advantage of security flaws in Unix/Linux requires a much more in depth understanding of the operating system then in the Windows environment.
And one linux company, lindows, has set this up so that by default you login as root access because thats what end users want. If you don't cator to them you lose market share.
Therefore, in the Unix/Linux world there are far fewer people who know how to exploit the weaknesses.
Only because there are very much fewer actual end users and far more people that care about security then how easy something is to use. Once linux is fed to the masses, and is as easy to use as windows, then it will be open to the same security weaknesses that windows has right now that you've pointed out.
Because Linux is less predictable due to the many flavors available, it is also harder to hack.
But if one organization decides to go with one linux distributor and someone finds a security hole related to that distributor it doesn't matter how many flavours of linux are out there. It also doesn't matter that a flaw was discovered recently in the linux kernel, therefore every flavour was effected. Besides, when was the last time you heard of a flaw in the kernel microsoft uses in a particular form of windows?
In summary, Linux is far more secure, catching up in usability and multimedia, and makes a far better platform in a server environment then Microsoft Windows. I have had months upon months of uptime with my Red Hat Linux and Sun Boxes which would be unthinkable if the same systems ran Microsoft Windows. I never run into viruses, worms, trojans, spyware, or large amounts of spam that others experience. Unix/Linux is just a better platform!!
True linux is a better server, but its not a good gaming/workstation/multimedia platform. As for security holes, I seem to get just as many notices for security holes in the linux servers here that run redhat as I do for windows. If a linux distributor took out all the programs that they use and start concentrating on the usability aspect I believe there would be less patches then. I want a linux distribution as easy to use as windows and so far lindows has come the closest to that offering the bare minimum for applications included just like windows. Now all we need are better hardware support, easier driver installation, easier program install/removal, a standard gui so that the user doesn't have to choose, etc...you get the gist of what I'm try to say.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)
Questions 10 and 11 for the home are bad questions. They assume that if its easy to set up that it is hard to administer. Basically, we've found that Linux is both easy to install and setup AND it is easy to administer. The same can be said for low cost and having low effort. The question implies that you can't have it both ways.
We find it low cost to start with, low cost to maintain and low effort. The Linux systems just keep running and running and running like a pink rabbit. The windoze boxes we ran crashed constantly, required constant patches that invaribly broke existing configurations causing us to spend hundreds of hours a year in down time. We couldn't afford to continue using a product that was definitely NOT enterprise quality.
Linux and Solaris X86 solved the problems and we've never looked back. It would cost us too much to change to something new now and we have absolutely no reason to get out of a Linux/Solaris environment. The boxes we have now just don't break. When we do update them, we know our scripts and programs will continue to work.
We don't get hacked, no viruses to worry about (we do use AV software) and a 500 MHz box with 64 MB RAM out performs a 1 GHZ box with 128MB RAM running Windoze XP. Duh, why fix what isn't broken?
We find it low cost to start with, low cost to maintain and low effort. The Linux systems just keep running and running and running like a pink rabbit. The windoze boxes we ran crashed constantly, required constant patches that invaribly broke existing configurations causing us to spend hundreds of hours a year in down time. We couldn't afford to continue using a product that was definitely NOT enterprise quality.
Linux and Solaris X86 solved the problems and we've never looked back. It would cost us too much to change to something new now and we have absolutely no reason to get out of a Linux/Solaris environment. The boxes we have now just don't break. When we do update them, we know our scripts and programs will continue to work.
We don't get hacked, no viruses to worry about (we do use AV software) and a 500 MHz box with 64 MB RAM out performs a 1 GHZ box with 128MB RAM running Windoze XP. Duh, why fix what isn't broken?
I tried the business survey running a machine with Windows 98se and IE 6.x and found that I couldn't run it, but OPERA 7.x was able to render and use the page properly.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-)
Funny I used Windows NT 4.0 with IE6 and I was able to do the survey, is it a user issue simply explained that you didnt try it at all? or were you trying to be funny?
Were you doing the business survey or the home survey? I found the home survey worked fine with IE6 and ME but the business survey would not render and could not be completed at all with IE6 and ME (drop down menus simply didn't work). However, the business survey was fine with RedHat/Mozilla 1.5.
Everytime I hit a button, it would shoot me to the top of the page. Using Mozilla
I use Mozilla FireBird 0.7. The buttons doesn't work for me either. Being a curious type, I fired up IE6 (using the IE6 view extension in Mozilla).
The survey for home users worked fine. The one for office users kept complaining that I didn't fill everything in. After checking and rechecking I gave up.
Typical Microsoft nonsense.
The survey for home users worked fine. The one for office users kept complaining that I didn't fill everything in. After checking and rechecking I gave up.
Typical Microsoft nonsense.
Tried using IE 6 under Windoz and it couldn't handle all the drop down menu widgets and did not render correctly. There is no way one could have completed the survey with this MS combination. Booted into linux on same computer and tried with Mozilla 1.5--no problems. What a riot!
" - There is more free add-on software "
There is also Free software available for Windows, Open Source alternatives exist for Windows and for Linux
"- No enforced license registration"
So you dont like to follow rules and you loathe Microsoft for making sure that they make their profit. You feel you should be able to use the install CD's on more than 1 computer? wake up no one allows that and allows you to get support.
"- Easier to customize exactly how I want it"
You can customize everything with Windows from a user point of view except the kernel, which it has been my experience 90% of Linux users use a default configuration shipped by their distributor, Most IT personnel doesnt touch it. The other 10% are hobbyists and developers, you also have some of these companies that do high level forms of computing.
" - More intuitive, simpler to understand "
Yeah right, come back down to planet earth, its a common fact that Linux is harder to deploy and configure than any other OS out there. It has made inroads to usability but major work still needs to be done before grandma can use it without any geek help.
" - Linux community support "
Yeah Windows has user groups, newsgroups and other forms of help. There are alot of Windows users and experts out there, a lot more than I ever thought existed before in the past.
" - Better reliability "
Actually from a user poin of view I find that comment ill made. My Windows machines have never had a virus attack, hack attack or any kind of hard crash. With Linux I got popped by a security vulnerability and I have had more Kernel Panics than Blue Screens of death.
" - I don't trust Microsoft "
Sounds like you have gotten bit by the anti-MS bug and not necessarily by user experience. Its hard to be a follower and not know truth from zealotrous Open Source "experts" who really dont know their butt from a knot in a log.
There is also Free software available for Windows, Open Source alternatives exist for Windows and for Linux
"- No enforced license registration"
So you dont like to follow rules and you loathe Microsoft for making sure that they make their profit. You feel you should be able to use the install CD's on more than 1 computer? wake up no one allows that and allows you to get support.
"- Easier to customize exactly how I want it"
You can customize everything with Windows from a user point of view except the kernel, which it has been my experience 90% of Linux users use a default configuration shipped by their distributor, Most IT personnel doesnt touch it. The other 10% are hobbyists and developers, you also have some of these companies that do high level forms of computing.
" - More intuitive, simpler to understand "
Yeah right, come back down to planet earth, its a common fact that Linux is harder to deploy and configure than any other OS out there. It has made inroads to usability but major work still needs to be done before grandma can use it without any geek help.
" - Linux community support "
Yeah Windows has user groups, newsgroups and other forms of help. There are alot of Windows users and experts out there, a lot more than I ever thought existed before in the past.
" - Better reliability "
Actually from a user poin of view I find that comment ill made. My Windows machines have never had a virus attack, hack attack or any kind of hard crash. With Linux I got popped by a security vulnerability and I have had more Kernel Panics than Blue Screens of death.
" - I don't trust Microsoft "
Sounds like you have gotten bit by the anti-MS bug and not necessarily by user experience. Its hard to be a follower and not know truth from zealotrous Open Source "experts" who really dont know their butt from a knot in a log.
"My Windows machines have never had a virus attack, hack attack or any kind of hard crash."
- Your computer must not be connected to the internet then, laugh.
- On average my computer gets scanned 15 times a day by Worms targeting Windows OS.
- My windows machine (Windows XP) got infected within 2 hours of installing the OS by the "lovesann" worm. I didn't even have enough time to finish downloading all the patches. Looks like next time i will have to Install/Update windows through a NAT server.
- Your computer must not be connected to the internet then, laugh.
- On average my computer gets scanned 15 times a day by Worms targeting Windows OS.
- My windows machine (Windows XP) got infected within 2 hours of installing the OS by the "lovesann" worm. I didn't even have enough time to finish downloading all the patches. Looks like next time i will have to Install/Update windows through a NAT server.
I do beleive that the person never had a virus or hack attack. I also have never had a virus or been hacked on my Windows machines and yes I use the internet with them. Maybe he is careful like me, it is possible. Now I do not believe he has never had any kind of "hard crash".
Also I never use a Windows box with the internet with out having a firewall inbetween the Windows box and the internet, you would have to be nuts not to.
For my personal use I use Gentoo and use Windows for playing game and DC projects that are not availible for linux.
Also I never use a Windows box with the internet with out having a firewall inbetween the Windows box and the internet, you would have to be nuts not to.
For my personal use I use Gentoo and use Windows for playing game and DC projects that are not availible for linux.
Always on connection, I just have never gotten hacked or attacked. Maybe Im just Lucky.
" - My windows machine (Windows XP) got infected within 2 hours of installing the OS by the "lovesann" worm. I didn't even have enough time to finish downloading all the patches. Looks like next time i will have to Install/Update windows through a NAT server. "
Regular anti-ms bull. Not only does the Open Source community steal code but they lie too, Laugh,
" - My windows machine (Windows XP) got infected within 2 hours of installing the OS by the "lovesann" worm. I didn't even have enough time to finish downloading all the patches. Looks like next time i will have to Install/Update windows through a NAT server. "
Regular anti-ms bull. Not only does the Open Source community steal code but they lie too, Laugh,
Sorry, but either you're not aware or are not checking to see how many times you've been scanned or attacked.
I watch my logs and can tell you that I'm constantly attacked on my DSL connection. If it were not for a firewall, I'd be compromised many times per day. When I had a MS tech tell me to turn off the firewall to install something, I laughed and told him I'd have to disconnect the modem before I'd disable the firewall. What a joke.
It's not anti-MS bull, as you put it. It's just fact. I will admit that I have not had to reboot my win2k box as many times as my 98 box, but still have issues with resources going down the tubes, forcing reboot. In linux, that just doesn't happen - at least not on my boxes (five). I also don't have reboot linux just to install and run an application. The only time I've had to reboot a linux box is with a kernel upgrade and even then, if I don't need to use the recompiled kernel right away, I can wait for a convenient time to do so.
You're calling linux users liars, but you come across as the typical MS clone with typical FUD when it comes to MS. I have found windows to be very difficult to deal with - constant forced upgrades, no way to fix broken apps because of closed config source, etc. I've had to discard more software apps and waste more money on things that don't work than I care to count in the MS world. In linux, they can be made to work, are mostly try-before-you-buy or actually free. I donate freely to those developers whose apps and servers I use.
As for virii, I don't get infected because I don't open email in windows if there is html or attachments. I send them to the linux box. I receive at least 100 infected emails a day that will not effect a linux box. I run AV on all systems regardless of OS and NIDS on the linux LAN. I have over 68,000 entries in the IDS logs for windows attacks and a trickle of attempted hacks for unix/linux.
So you can't be very honest and say that you are not attacked in any way. If you have not been infected with a virus, it's because you're careful or don't get email. So stop with the FUD.
I watch my logs and can tell you that I'm constantly attacked on my DSL connection. If it were not for a firewall, I'd be compromised many times per day. When I had a MS tech tell me to turn off the firewall to install something, I laughed and told him I'd have to disconnect the modem before I'd disable the firewall. What a joke.
It's not anti-MS bull, as you put it. It's just fact. I will admit that I have not had to reboot my win2k box as many times as my 98 box, but still have issues with resources going down the tubes, forcing reboot. In linux, that just doesn't happen - at least not on my boxes (five). I also don't have reboot linux just to install and run an application. The only time I've had to reboot a linux box is with a kernel upgrade and even then, if I don't need to use the recompiled kernel right away, I can wait for a convenient time to do so.
You're calling linux users liars, but you come across as the typical MS clone with typical FUD when it comes to MS. I have found windows to be very difficult to deal with - constant forced upgrades, no way to fix broken apps because of closed config source, etc. I've had to discard more software apps and waste more money on things that don't work than I care to count in the MS world. In linux, they can be made to work, are mostly try-before-you-buy or actually free. I donate freely to those developers whose apps and servers I use.
As for virii, I don't get infected because I don't open email in windows if there is html or attachments. I send them to the linux box. I receive at least 100 infected emails a day that will not effect a linux box. I run AV on all systems regardless of OS and NIDS on the linux LAN. I have over 68,000 entries in the IDS logs for windows attacks and a trickle of attempted hacks for unix/linux.
So you can't be very honest and say that you are not attacked in any way. If you have not been infected with a virus, it's because you're careful or don't get email. So stop with the FUD.
Wow. Where to begin?
If your definition of "free" does not include access to the _actual_computer_code_ as opposed to an inscrutible binary, it's not future-safe. Not worth my investment.
A glib reply: Iwouldn't call what I get from Microsoft "support"; Also I provide my own support for quite a few machines and I know personally people who spend $40k/year on Red Hat licences -- there are a lot of in-betweens.
Regarding configurability, I think it has to do with the intended purpose of the computer system. I concede that Windows is easier to configure for a home user. I believe from experience that Linux is much easier to configure because frankly, the design is better, even if Windows is more polished for certain uses. Hopefully I managed to say that without sounding insulting?
Again, some things are simpler to understand, and some harder -- sweeping generalization about "simplicity" is not helpful. I personally believe that simplicity is a secondary attribute, things such as consistancy, not crashing, and effective gui design are all parts of this.
I will be blatantly biased here. Linux help is of much higher quality, because (a) those involved are not already defeated by years of gruelling disapointment -- there is much more sense of creative comradarie, and (b) some linux users can program their own kernel: people routinely help newbies install linux, who also spend their day jobs hacking cluster filesystems for the fifth largest computer in the world. This is not to say I don't know knowledgable Windows folks. I do. But the quality of help is incomparable.
My (work) windows machines have been broken into. I simply do not have the time to invest the effort required to work around Microsoft's mistakes, misdesign, and all-around fucking sloppiness. I respect people who administer Windows networks the same way I respect people who cleanup suicides or rescue burning bodies out of passenger train or automobile accidents: commendable, but it sucks the life out of you unless you have a very strong personality. But then again that's just my opinion.
I interpreted trust along the lines of "is this a company I would trust my computer platform and future direction to", or "is this even a company I would trust to not shaft me as a partner by borging me", or "would I let my (fictional) daughter go out with them if Microsoft were a potential boyfriend, or would I polish my shotguns when he arrived?". My answers to these questions are: (1) not particularly, given many less risky options (2) hell no, and (3) I'd probably let my daughter do what she liked, but I wouldn't have to like it.
I suppose that Microsoft's software quality has improved. I would also cynically note that it couldn't have gotten much worse.
" Regarding configurability, I think it has to do with the intended purpose of the computer system. I concede that Windows is easier to configure for a home user. I believe from experience that Linux is much easier to configure because frankly, the design is better, even if Windows is more polished for certain uses. Hopefully I managed to say that without sounding insulting? "
Depends on what you do use it for and who is the audience. Until my grandmother can use Linux without any interaction from me, I wouldnt dare suggest Linux nor would I even attempt to get her to use it. Until I can install packages without compiling them I wont consider Linux as anything but a play toy and would not suggest it to anyone. I use Linux I like Linux but from a usability point of view I think Linux is comparable to Windows 3.1 and nothing much more.
" My (work) windows machines have been broken into. I simply do not have the time to invest the effort required to work around Microsoft's mistakes, misdesign, and all-around fucking sloppiness. I respect people who administer Windows networks the same way I respect people who cleanup suicides or rescue burning bodies out of passenger train or automobile accidents: commendable, but it sucks the life out of you unless you have a very strong personality. But then again that's just my opinion. "
As I have stated I have yet to see any examples of Microsofts sloppiness. I have had no problems administering Windows machines and as i have stated my Linux machines have been cracked from 3 security vulnerabilities, Windows 0 times. And their was a report Last year that said Linux made up 53 % of all cracked Systems last year.
" I interpreted trust along the lines of "is this a company I would trust my computer platform and future direction to", or "is this even a company I would trust to not shaft me as a partner by borging me", or "would I let my (fictional) daughter go out with them if Microsoft were a potential boyfriend, or would I polish my shotguns when he arrived?". My answers to these questions are: (1) not particularly, given many less risky options (2) hell no, and (3) I'd probably let my daughter do what she liked, but I wouldn't have to like it. "
(1) Yes I would trust them, given Linux is a much more risky option and i do have much less Windows support calls and more Linux support calls.
(2) hell Yes
Depends on what you do use it for and who is the audience. Until my grandmother can use Linux without any interaction from me, I wouldnt dare suggest Linux nor would I even attempt to get her to use it. Until I can install packages without compiling them I wont consider Linux as anything but a play toy and would not suggest it to anyone. I use Linux I like Linux but from a usability point of view I think Linux is comparable to Windows 3.1 and nothing much more.
" My (work) windows machines have been broken into. I simply do not have the time to invest the effort required to work around Microsoft's mistakes, misdesign, and all-around fucking sloppiness. I respect people who administer Windows networks the same way I respect people who cleanup suicides or rescue burning bodies out of passenger train or automobile accidents: commendable, but it sucks the life out of you unless you have a very strong personality. But then again that's just my opinion. "
As I have stated I have yet to see any examples of Microsofts sloppiness. I have had no problems administering Windows machines and as i have stated my Linux machines have been cracked from 3 security vulnerabilities, Windows 0 times. And their was a report Last year that said Linux made up 53 % of all cracked Systems last year.
" I interpreted trust along the lines of "is this a company I would trust my computer platform and future direction to", or "is this even a company I would trust to not shaft me as a partner by borging me", or "would I let my (fictional) daughter go out with them if Microsoft were a potential boyfriend, or would I polish my shotguns when he arrived?". My answers to these questions are: (1) not particularly, given many less risky options (2) hell no, and (3) I'd probably let my daughter do what she liked, but I wouldn't have to like it. "
(1) Yes I would trust them, given Linux is a much more risky option and i do have much less Windows support calls and more Linux support calls.
(2) hell Yes
You can customize everything with Windows from a user point of view except the kernel,
Yeah right.
which it has been my experience 90% of Linux users use a default configuration shipped by their distributor.
So what, I love the fact that I have a choice, I can compile my own kernel if I want to. The fact that I don't bother is no reason to remove that choice.
The number one feature I love about Linux, choice. MS are limiting your choice more and more with every release of Windows. It will soon get to the point where you won't be able to install anything but MS software.
Why do they require me to agree to let them enter my computer do anything they want and not even warn or tell me about it?
...its a common fact that Linux is harder to deploy and configure than any other OS out there.
Obviously, you never installed Windows (nor Linux) on a clean computer.
You feel you should be able to use the install CD's on more than 1 computer?
Yes, GNU/Linux allows you to do it.
And I will add that I run the web server and mailing list of my LUG on an old Pentium 233 which has been running non-stop for months (except for power outages). Do you really thing I would be able to do that with NT or Win 2000?
JMV
Obviously, you never installed Windows (nor Linux) on a clean computer.
You feel you should be able to use the install CD's on more than 1 computer?
Yes, GNU/Linux allows you to do it.
And I will add that I run the web server and mailing list of my LUG on an old Pentium 233 which has been running non-stop for months (except for power outages). Do you really thing I would be able to do that with NT or Win 2000?
JMV
For crying out loud, an other person who know peoples dos and donts with their computers.
What are they called, now again?.....smart a**es.
What are they called, now again?.....smart a**es.
my two suggestions for how to change winders:
security security security!!! I mean why can't I prevent Windows from responding on certain ports? I can uninstall and reconfigure stuff, but the damned Windows [2000] kernel still responds on tcp ports 135 and 139. second suggestion: open the source code. if you allow (even encourage) folks to make their own changes, and require folks who want to sell alterations to share 'em with the community, you're strengthening the community enormously.
bastards that they are, i didn't mention the ethical problems with the company's behavior, since i assume that the unethical will remain in charge like they usually do in politics and business.
security security security!!! I mean why can't I prevent Windows from responding on certain ports? I can uninstall and reconfigure stuff, but the damned Windows [2000] kernel still responds on tcp ports 135 and 139. second suggestion: open the source code. if you allow (even encourage) folks to make their own changes, and require folks who want to sell alterations to share 'em with the community, you're strengthening the community enormously.
bastards that they are, i didn't mention the ethical problems with the company's behavior, since i assume that the unethical will remain in charge like they usually do in politics and business.
You've obviously never noticed the checkbox for 'Disable NetBIOS over tcp'. You can do this on a per-NIC basis.
Perfect example of Windows solutions...
Here are my non-submitted answers to their questions:
15 - I really can not provide a list of 'possible improvements' to Windows as it has been so long since I have been a regular user of Microsoft products that I am not qualified to make such a judgment. I can, however, make a number of suggestions on what they need to do in order to right the perception that they can not be trusted and that their products are weak.
16 - The Linux community knows far better than I what needs to be done. At this point in time, however, Linux allows me to do everything I need to do with a computer. In fact, it probably allows me to do much more than I could ever dream of.
17 - No Thanks.
In reality, a computer is a tool. Whatever operating system is installed is really insignificant if that operating system allows the tool to do its job properly. Everything past that is either personal preference or plain ignorance. The old adage that form follows function is significant. The creators of Linux (the kernel) and its brethren (GNU, etc.) seem to understand this, and, consequently, Linux appeals to me.
Those of you who spend your time slamming each other about what is right and what is wrong with Linux are wasting your time and countless thousands of watts of electricity. There is far more to life than computers.
I, for one, could care less why Microsoft wants my answers. If they were really concerned about what I thought, they would call and ask me. Microsoft became the dominant player in personal computer operating systems because they convinced the computer manufacturers that their products would help sell computers, not because they convinced end users they had a better product. For what it is worth, I think Microsoft is a marketing company first and a software company second. Unfortunately this approach works really well in our 'fluff over substance' society.
15 - I really can not provide a list of 'possible improvements' to Windows as it has been so long since I have been a regular user of Microsoft products that I am not qualified to make such a judgment. I can, however, make a number of suggestions on what they need to do in order to right the perception that they can not be trusted and that their products are weak.
16 - The Linux community knows far better than I what needs to be done. At this point in time, however, Linux allows me to do everything I need to do with a computer. In fact, it probably allows me to do much more than I could ever dream of.
17 - No Thanks.
In reality, a computer is a tool. Whatever operating system is installed is really insignificant if that operating system allows the tool to do its job properly. Everything past that is either personal preference or plain ignorance. The old adage that form follows function is significant. The creators of Linux (the kernel) and its brethren (GNU, etc.) seem to understand this, and, consequently, Linux appeals to me.
Those of you who spend your time slamming each other about what is right and what is wrong with Linux are wasting your time and countless thousands of watts of electricity. There is far more to life than computers.
I, for one, could care less why Microsoft wants my answers. If they were really concerned about what I thought, they would call and ask me. Microsoft became the dominant player in personal computer operating systems because they convinced the computer manufacturers that their products would help sell computers, not because they convinced end users they had a better product. For what it is worth, I think Microsoft is a marketing company first and a software company second. Unfortunately this approach works really well in our 'fluff over substance' society.
Agreed. I'm surprised I don't see the term McRosoft bandied around as it makes a point.
The only "why" microsoft is doing this survey is just one of those steps in their plans to eliminate linux.
Surprise!
So I did not make this survey. (I just read it) Why should I
fake one? Well, I dont want to be like "one of them".<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)
Surprise!
So I did not make this survey. (I just read it) Why should I
fake one? Well, I dont want to be like "one of them".<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)
Here's my info I posted. I think it would give them the idea how easy and useful linux is to someone who is only a home end user with not too much knowledge of linux.
My comments I did NOT put in the survey are in brackets [ ].
Linux Level: Novice
[I've tried linux before, but it didn't suppor the hardware
and do what I needed it to until just recently.]
How long I've used Linux: 0 - 3 months
[That's actual useful usage. The other times I tried linux
I didn't even really get to use it for much other than
trying to get my hardware and other things to work.]
Do people ask me for Linux advice? No. [I'm still learning.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)]
Type of user: End user
Primary Linux machine:
Monitor Type: 15" LCD
Memory (RAM): 129MB - 256MB
processor type: Intel
processor speed: 201Mhz to 500 Mhz
number of CPUs: 1
hard drive space: 20.1 GB to 40 GB
length of ownership: 4.1 to 5 years
[It's actually an eMachines 366is I got on a free computer deal in August 1999. Friends helped me build it up/upgrade it. It has 256MB RAM (most it'll take), 40G HD, CD-RW, MS Optical wheel mouse, Printer, Scanner, and I have a digital camera as well. The machine has an 366MHz Intel Celeron PII MMX CPU and a 56K USRobotics ISA modem (even though the computer also has PCI slots, two USB ports, and a midi/game port, etc.]
OS that came with the machine: Windows 98/SE
Upgraded from Windows 98 to SE after purchasing an authorized upgrade disc from Microsoft.
Connectivity - Internet: dial-up modem, Network: no home network
Primary Linux Distribution: Red Hat
[Actually, I'm using an RH9 clone I bought for under $20 online I also left the "At Work" blank because I'm disabled and unable to work.]
Region: USA/Canada [USA]
Who would I recommend Linux to: Everyone
[If I can do it, I'm sure anyone can.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)]
Rank the reasons I like Linux for the home:
Very Important vote on:
It's cheaper, there's more free software, ability to run on old
hardware, more secure than Windows, no need to keep installing updates and fixes, better performance than Windows, easier to use than Windows, easier to install than Windows, better install/uninstall options for software, no enforced license registration, better device and peripheral support, easier to customize exactly how I want it,
more intuitive, simpler to understand, Linux community support, better reliablility, I don't want to use propriatery/commercial software.
Middle ground on:
integration with consumer electronic devices and better scripting
Not important on:
Better gaming experience [I don't play games much]
Linux Experience to Help with career [I can't work so it doesn't matter]
Satisfation of not paying microsoft [Doesn't matter to me, if it's worth it, and I can afford it and it works for me, I'll buy it if I have to. They'll see my decisions aren't based on a "herd mentality" hatred of MS but on actual practicality for my personal useage and needs.]
I don't trust Microsoft [I don't trust anyone until they prove I can trust them, so again, it doesn't matter.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)]
For Better Command Line: 1 less than very important
[I sometimes use scripting and other command line fuctions, but mostly I'm GUI-based.]
For Access to source code: 1 up from not important
[I am not much of a programmer so I probably wouldn't understand someone else's source code well enough to make my own changes, yet it is nice to have in case you want to compile it for the computer, or if someone made a spelling/grammar booboo or something.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)]
Tasks done on Linux:
Not important (as I never do much of these tasks)
Playing/Hosting games,
Very important (I use these things every day, and it's a Must have for me)
Internet gateway [to connect to the internet I use dial-up so I think that was about right?], Firewall, Word Processing, E-mail, Web browsing, and Photo editing.
[Desktop publishing got one less than Very Important as I don't use it much as the other stuff, but I do get some use from that stuff. I use Open Office.]
Middle ground (sometimes I use these things but only on occasion) Spreadsheets, Databases, Programming [Mostly scripts to do repititive tasks]
Stuff I don't use at all: (N/A)
file/web server, finances, video editing/capture, other
Other OSs used: Windows 98
Dual Boot: Yes
Top two possible improvements to Windows [I may have listed more than two]:
Cost of license is way too expensive for those who are on a limited income, and the threat of "jail" because of "piracy" if it doesn't come with your PC is not something I am appreciative of, since I've got a disability and can't handle such stress and trauma. I want an OS that I can still use if my computer should cease functioning and a friend give me another one to replace it. I can do that with Linux, and just put my system back the way it was. As I keep telling my friends about everything else in Windows,
"You can't do that with Windows!". Windows is also not very secure, thus viruses can get in. Linux nothing can install without root priveledges. I can control everything in linux myself, without messing with one database called a "registry". Everything has it's own config so if you mess one thing up, the whole thing isn't unusable. People in the community are more knowledgable than Microsoft's rude tech support (IF you can even get ahold of them) and I learned more from the Linux community in a month than
I did in several years using Windows!
Top two possible improvements in Linux:
More support for streaming video protocols so I can see some sport videos on some sites I visit regularly, and more Windows-only software vendors write linux ports of their programs (such as if Jasc would please make
a Paint Shop Pro for Linux).
[I gave them my "public" email address so if they want to contact me, fine. It's a throw-away "spam" addy anyway so if it gets spammed or whatever, I can always just close that one.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)]
My comments I did NOT put in the survey are in brackets [ ].
Linux Level: Novice
[I've tried linux before, but it didn't suppor the hardware
and do what I needed it to until just recently.]
How long I've used Linux: 0 - 3 months
[That's actual useful usage. The other times I tried linux
I didn't even really get to use it for much other than
trying to get my hardware and other things to work.]
Do people ask me for Linux advice? No. [I'm still learning.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)]
Type of user: End user
Primary Linux machine:
Monitor Type: 15" LCD
Memory (RAM): 129MB - 256MB
processor type: Intel
processor speed: 201Mhz to 500 Mhz
number of CPUs: 1
hard drive space: 20.1 GB to 40 GB
length of ownership: 4.1 to 5 years
[It's actually an eMachines 366is I got on a free computer deal in August 1999. Friends helped me build it up/upgrade it. It has 256MB RAM (most it'll take), 40G HD, CD-RW, MS Optical wheel mouse, Printer, Scanner, and I have a digital camera as well. The machine has an 366MHz Intel Celeron PII MMX CPU and a 56K USRobotics ISA modem (even though the computer also has PCI slots, two USB ports, and a midi/game port, etc.]
OS that came with the machine: Windows 98/SE
Upgraded from Windows 98 to SE after purchasing an authorized upgrade disc from Microsoft.
Connectivity - Internet: dial-up modem, Network: no home network
Primary Linux Distribution: Red Hat
[Actually, I'm using an RH9 clone I bought for under $20 online I also left the "At Work" blank because I'm disabled and unable to work.]
Region: USA/Canada [USA]
Who would I recommend Linux to: Everyone
[If I can do it, I'm sure anyone can.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)]
Rank the reasons I like Linux for the home:
Very Important vote on:
It's cheaper, there's more free software, ability to run on old
hardware, more secure than Windows, no need to keep installing updates and fixes, better performance than Windows, easier to use than Windows, easier to install than Windows, better install/uninstall options for software, no enforced license registration, better device and peripheral support, easier to customize exactly how I want it,
more intuitive, simpler to understand, Linux community support, better reliablility, I don't want to use propriatery/commercial software.
Middle ground on:
integration with consumer electronic devices and better scripting
Not important on:
Better gaming experience [I don't play games much]
Linux Experience to Help with career [I can't work so it doesn't matter]
Satisfation of not paying microsoft [Doesn't matter to me, if it's worth it, and I can afford it and it works for me, I'll buy it if I have to. They'll see my decisions aren't based on a "herd mentality" hatred of MS but on actual practicality for my personal useage and needs.]
I don't trust Microsoft [I don't trust anyone until they prove I can trust them, so again, it doesn't matter.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)]
For Better Command Line: 1 less than very important
[I sometimes use scripting and other command line fuctions, but mostly I'm GUI-based.]
For Access to source code: 1 up from not important
[I am not much of a programmer so I probably wouldn't understand someone else's source code well enough to make my own changes, yet it is nice to have in case you want to compile it for the computer, or if someone made a spelling/grammar booboo or something.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)]
Tasks done on Linux:
Not important (as I never do much of these tasks)
Playing/Hosting games,
Very important (I use these things every day, and it's a Must have for me)
Internet gateway [to connect to the internet I use dial-up so I think that was about right?], Firewall, Word Processing, E-mail, Web browsing, and Photo editing.
[Desktop publishing got one less than Very Important as I don't use it much as the other stuff, but I do get some use from that stuff. I use Open Office.]
Middle ground (sometimes I use these things but only on occasion) Spreadsheets, Databases, Programming [Mostly scripts to do repititive tasks]
Stuff I don't use at all: (N/A)
file/web server, finances, video editing/capture, other
Other OSs used: Windows 98
Dual Boot: Yes
Top two possible improvements to Windows [I may have listed more than two]:
Cost of license is way too expensive for those who are on a limited income, and the threat of "jail" because of "piracy" if it doesn't come with your PC is not something I am appreciative of, since I've got a disability and can't handle such stress and trauma. I want an OS that I can still use if my computer should cease functioning and a friend give me another one to replace it. I can do that with Linux, and just put my system back the way it was. As I keep telling my friends about everything else in Windows,
"You can't do that with Windows!". Windows is also not very secure, thus viruses can get in. Linux nothing can install without root priveledges. I can control everything in linux myself, without messing with one database called a "registry". Everything has it's own config so if you mess one thing up, the whole thing isn't unusable. People in the community are more knowledgable than Microsoft's rude tech support (IF you can even get ahold of them) and I learned more from the Linux community in a month than
I did in several years using Windows!
Top two possible improvements in Linux:
More support for streaming video protocols so I can see some sport videos on some sites I visit regularly, and more Windows-only software vendors write linux ports of their programs (such as if Jasc would please make
a Paint Shop Pro for Linux).
[I gave them my "public" email address so if they want to contact me, fine. It's a throw-away "spam" addy anyway so if it gets spammed or whatever, I can always just close that one.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)]
"...semi-literate slum kids in Brazil..."
You could at least pretend to care and not be a pompous ass. You could use a course in political correctness 101.
You could at least pretend to care and not be a pompous ass. You could use a course in political correctness 101.
And you could use a course in Real Life 101.
"Political Correctness" is for those who cannot handle reality.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:P
"Political Correctness" is for those who cannot handle reality.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:P
I have been a user of Linux now for a little over a year. i have not figured everything out yet but that will come.
I find Linux MUCH better and user friendly tham MS and it is for free!
Security is another thing who really likes those<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.exe files? i complained once to Microsoft and all they could say was that "the product is made so that it is easier to use" HAHAHA "to abuse" I must say!
I jumped over from Windows to Linux in one day, sure i had to get used to it but that was the case when i bough my first computer too?!?
Now i would never think about going back...I have seen the light!
I find Linux MUCH better and user friendly tham MS and it is for free!
Security is another thing who really likes those<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.exe files? i complained once to Microsoft and all they could say was that "the product is made so that it is easier to use" HAHAHA "to abuse" I must say!
I jumped over from Windows to Linux in one day, sure i had to get used to it but that was the case when i bough my first computer too?!?
Now i would never think about going back...I have seen the light!
" Now i would never think about going back...I have seen the light! "
How can you have seen the light, from the way i see it you are a blind follower, someone may have explained the light to you but I doubt you have ever seen it.
How can you have seen the light, from the way i see it you are a blind follower, someone may have explained the light to you but I doubt you have ever seen it.
I don't see your point here.
however what I meant was that i did my research on the Linux OS and just tried it so i could see what makes it so good. I find it much easier to use and user friendly.
second if I was a blind follower i would still be using windows.
however what I meant was that i did my research on the Linux OS and just tried it so i could see what makes it so good. I find it much easier to use and user friendly.
second if I was a blind follower i would still be using windows.
He/She did find another OS than Windows better. (not so surprisingly really) Live with it.
1) Novice
2) 1-2 years
3) No
4) Hobbyist
5) 15" LCD, 256MB RAM, Intel P4 1.6GHz, 80GB HD, 3 years
6) Windows XP
7) Cable Modem, Ethernet Hub
8) Gentoo, Don't work (yet)
9) Europe, GB
10) Everyone
11) Important things: Cheaper, More free softwore, Hardware support, Install/Uninstall of Software, Satisfaction of not giving Microsoft any money, Don't trust Microsoft.
12) Important things: Web, Email, Word processing, Music.
13) N/A
14) No
15) "Better configuration. The registry sucks! Haven't you figured it out yet?
Better install/uninstall of programs. Come on, when I want to get rid of software, I want to get rid of everything.
Open Source, so that others can make decent patches for security holes, and see how much BSD code there is in Windows."
16) "Better GUI, but that's being catered for by the xserver project (xserver.freedesktop.org)."
17) "Are you kidding?"
2) 1-2 years
3) No
4) Hobbyist
5) 15" LCD, 256MB RAM, Intel P4 1.6GHz, 80GB HD, 3 years
6) Windows XP
7) Cable Modem, Ethernet Hub
8) Gentoo, Don't work (yet)
9) Europe, GB
10) Everyone
11) Important things: Cheaper, More free softwore, Hardware support, Install/Uninstall of Software, Satisfaction of not giving Microsoft any money, Don't trust Microsoft.
12) Important things: Web, Email, Word processing, Music.
13) N/A
14) No
15) "Better configuration. The registry sucks! Haven't you figured it out yet?
Better install/uninstall of programs. Come on, when I want to get rid of software, I want to get rid of everything.
Open Source, so that others can make decent patches for security holes, and see how much BSD code there is in Windows."
16) "Better GUI, but that's being catered for by the xserver project (xserver.freedesktop.org)."
17) "Are you kidding?"
Not much meaning in saying all of what I said, but generally I am pissed @ the Windows world which I am kind of stuck in myself. I strongly dislike "hidden features" in Microsoft products that allow others to do as they please with my computer while I sleep or whatever. I dislike Microsofts' business tactics and questionable ethics. And I dislike the constant money hunger that Microsoft displays, I like cheap and good software and will not lay down my hard earned dineros on flawed products that will bring me near to concussion as I attempt using them for their intended use without having to call "1-800-Microsoft-rips-you-off-technical-support".
End of rant, I think Linux is the most perfect choice in an otherwise flawed Microsoft dominated software world.
Btw, Linux runs great on both AXP 3200+ 768MB DDR and my oooooooooooooooooooooold Pentium Pro 180 with 32MB EDO...
End of rant, I think Linux is the most perfect choice in an otherwise flawed Microsoft dominated software world.
Btw, Linux runs great on both AXP 3200+ 768MB DDR and my oooooooooooooooooooooold Pentium Pro 180 with 32MB EDO...
> Linux is the best
> Linux is my live
> Linux give us the freedom
> Tahk you, Mr. Torvalds!!!
I see Linux is liberating some ex-Windows devotees...<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;-)
> Linux is my live
> Linux give us the freedom
> Tahk you, Mr. Torvalds!!!
I see Linux is liberating some ex-Windows devotees...<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;-)
5 to 6 years ago, I needed to replace an aging Windows NT server in our family office.
I had heard about Linux, and wanted to have more info about it. I searched the Internet, and also logged in to a Microsoft web site. At one point I was asked to provide my Name and address. Naively, I did so, truthfully.
Some days later a letter turned up, delivered by special messanger, from Microsoft, threatening me with legal acting if I use a pirated copy of windows.
That was the moment of truth. Immediately, I ordered a copy of Linux from RedHead, installed it as a dual boot system, and I have never looked back since.
After this experience, it is hard to understand why there are still people around who use Microsoft windows. I don't, and I wouldnt.
For the record: The computer I was then using was a Laptop from Digital Equipment which had Windows pre-installed. It wasn't a pirated copy.
I had heard about Linux, and wanted to have more info about it. I searched the Internet, and also logged in to a Microsoft web site. At one point I was asked to provide my Name and address. Naively, I did so, truthfully.
Some days later a letter turned up, delivered by special messanger, from Microsoft, threatening me with legal acting if I use a pirated copy of windows.
That was the moment of truth. Immediately, I ordered a copy of Linux from RedHead, installed it as a dual boot system, and I have never looked back since.
After this experience, it is hard to understand why there are still people around who use Microsoft windows. I don't, and I wouldnt.
For the record: The computer I was then using was a Laptop from Digital Equipment which had Windows pre-installed. It wasn't a pirated copy.
1. What best describes your Linux knowledge level?
Intermediate
2. How long have you used Linux?
more than 2 years
3. Do people ask you for Linux advice?
yes
4. What best describes the kind of Linux user you are?
End user
5. Please describe your primary home Linux machine.
17" CRT
512 MB
1 AMD CPU 1.1 Ghz to 2 Ghz
Hard Drive 100.1-150 GB
Ownership 6 months - 1 year
6. What OS came with your primary Linux system when you got it?
No OS loaded
7. What kind of network connectivity do you use for your home Linux machine?
ADSL / Ethernet HUB
8. What is the primary Linux distribution you use?
at home : Mandrake / at work : I don't use Linux
9. What region are you from?
Europe
10. Who would you recommend use Linux at home?
Intermediate users
11. Rank the reasons you like Linux for the home.
very important
- More secure than Windows
- I want to get more Linux experience to help my career
- Better performance than Windows
- Better install and uninstall of additional software
- No enforced license registration
- Better command line
- Access to source code
- Easier to customize exactly how I want it
- Linux community support
- The satisfaction of not giving Microsoft more money
- I don't trust Microsoft
12. Rank the importance of various tasks you use your home Linux system for.
very important
Internet gateway
Firewall
A home file server
A home web server
Word processing
Spreadsheets
Databases
E-mail
Web browsing
Home finances
Photo Editing
N/A
Hosting games
Programming
Desk Top Publishing
Video Editing
Recording live TV/ Video
13. What other operating system do you use at home?
Windows 2000 Pro
14. Do you dual boot between different operating systems on your primary home Linux PC?
yes
15. List the top one or two possible improvements that you would like to see made to Windows.
open source
security
16. List the top one or two improvements that you would like to see made to Linux.
This is NOT Micro$oft's problem.
17. Please list your e-mail address<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...
I don't trust Microsoft
cu,
Bluebeetle.
Intermediate
2. How long have you used Linux?
more than 2 years
3. Do people ask you for Linux advice?
yes
4. What best describes the kind of Linux user you are?
End user
5. Please describe your primary home Linux machine.
17" CRT
512 MB
1 AMD CPU 1.1 Ghz to 2 Ghz
Hard Drive 100.1-150 GB
Ownership 6 months - 1 year
6. What OS came with your primary Linux system when you got it?
No OS loaded
7. What kind of network connectivity do you use for your home Linux machine?
ADSL / Ethernet HUB
8. What is the primary Linux distribution you use?
at home : Mandrake / at work : I don't use Linux
9. What region are you from?
Europe
10. Who would you recommend use Linux at home?
Intermediate users
11. Rank the reasons you like Linux for the home.
very important
- More secure than Windows
- I want to get more Linux experience to help my career
- Better performance than Windows
- Better install and uninstall of additional software
- No enforced license registration
- Better command line
- Access to source code
- Easier to customize exactly how I want it
- Linux community support
- The satisfaction of not giving Microsoft more money
- I don't trust Microsoft
12. Rank the importance of various tasks you use your home Linux system for.
very important
Internet gateway
Firewall
A home file server
A home web server
Word processing
Spreadsheets
Databases
Web browsing
Home finances
Photo Editing
N/A
Hosting games
Programming
Desk Top Publishing
Video Editing
Recording live TV/ Video
13. What other operating system do you use at home?
Windows 2000 Pro
14. Do you dual boot between different operating systems on your primary home Linux PC?
yes
15. List the top one or two possible improvements that you would like to see made to Windows.
open source
security
16. List the top one or two improvements that you would like to see made to Linux.
This is NOT Micro$oft's problem.
17. Please list your e-mail address<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...
I don't trust Microsoft
cu,
Bluebeetle.
As a Linux Expert I responded to Microsoft's short comings as:
Open Source it or at least adhere strongly to Open Standards without compromising features. Work better and more completely with open source solutions without intentionally crippling the process.
Better documentation on Windows internals. Write better documentation for the consultant.
Improve the installer. Add functionalilty to allow listing files in a package, verifying installed packages, identify which files are owned by which package, add support for dependancies so we know when shared files are no longer needed.
Open up the support knowledge base. Provide a raw version where the answers are not "censored" before release. More peer-to-peer support is required, Microsoft should host this site.
Stop making changes for marketing purposes. Why has the GUI changed so drastically between versions?
Improve security, but don't rely on complex schemes when code review/repair is the best alternative.
Improve privacy. Stop catering to large business at the expense of your largest customer base.
Stop make changes for big business and focus on what helps your largest customer base (SMB).
Reduce pricing on software, we don't appreciate the high margins and we don't want to pay for huge marketing expenses. We certainly don't want to pay excessive, monopolistic prices.
Create a Linux versions of your software. (it may be too late for that)
Include more device drivers in your default install. On Linux I perform a 20 minute install and have everything I need. With Windows I perform a 1/2 hour install and then have to have to reboot
about 6 time to install device drivers.
Get rid off activation. If it's purpose was to reduce piracy and therefor the price of software, it hasn't. We don't like it and it costs us expense, effort and downtime without giving us any value whatsoever.
Improve certication. The MCSE certification is a joke, literally. There are too many unskilled MCSEs and no organization that I know of considers it for any other reason than becoming a MCSP.
Integration with Windows products is very poorly done. Although the integration exists and functionality is there it is done poorly technically. Clear and supportable APIs are sacrificed as a shortcut or in favour of performance. The result is poorly integrated software that is difficult to debug and support.
Improve the quality of software. Let the programmers choose when a product is complete. that is the best way to create good, stable software.
All this may be too late. Microsoft has lost a lot of ground to Linux and may have to work harder than ever to provide value to customers.
Open Source it or at least adhere strongly to Open Standards without compromising features. Work better and more completely with open source solutions without intentionally crippling the process.
Better documentation on Windows internals. Write better documentation for the consultant.
Improve the installer. Add functionalilty to allow listing files in a package, verifying installed packages, identify which files are owned by which package, add support for dependancies so we know when shared files are no longer needed.
Open up the support knowledge base. Provide a raw version where the answers are not "censored" before release. More peer-to-peer support is required, Microsoft should host this site.
Stop making changes for marketing purposes. Why has the GUI changed so drastically between versions?
Improve security, but don't rely on complex schemes when code review/repair is the best alternative.
Improve privacy. Stop catering to large business at the expense of your largest customer base.
Stop make changes for big business and focus on what helps your largest customer base (SMB).
Reduce pricing on software, we don't appreciate the high margins and we don't want to pay for huge marketing expenses. We certainly don't want to pay excessive, monopolistic prices.
Create a Linux versions of your software. (it may be too late for that)
Include more device drivers in your default install. On Linux I perform a 20 minute install and have everything I need. With Windows I perform a 1/2 hour install and then have to have to reboot
about 6 time to install device drivers.
Get rid off activation. If it's purpose was to reduce piracy and therefor the price of software, it hasn't. We don't like it and it costs us expense, effort and downtime without giving us any value whatsoever.
Improve certication. The MCSE certification is a joke, literally. There are too many unskilled MCSEs and no organization that I know of considers it for any other reason than becoming a MCSP.
Integration with Windows products is very poorly done. Although the integration exists and functionality is there it is done poorly technically. Clear and supportable APIs are sacrificed as a shortcut or in favour of performance. The result is poorly integrated software that is difficult to debug and support.
Improve the quality of software. Let the programmers choose when a product is complete. that is the best way to create good, stable software.
All this may be too late. Microsoft has lost a lot of ground to Linux and may have to work harder than ever to provide value to customers.
Here are my answers:
15. List the top one or two possible improvements that you would like to see made to Windows.:
In simple words.....
1) Let windows "play nice" with 3rd party programs. Windows and other Microsoft programs crash enough, but for some "mysterious" reason, non-Microsoft products crash more often.
2) Don't be so f*&@ing greedy! Sell products at a REASONABLE price! $170 for XP, $500 for Office?! What, Billy doesn't have enough greenbacks? Please, he has enough stashed away to pay off the national debt!
3) Let YOUR employees do the product debugging, not the consumer. Release a product ONLY when it's "ready for prime time". Not just to meet some stupid deadline! I can think of MANY more, but I'm past the 2 limit.
16. List the top one or two improvements that you would like to see made to Linux.:
1) More device drivers. These wimpy hardware vendors should get off their asses and either start porting their drivers or give the code to the Open source community and let someone else do it!
2) Games/Apps. Even though more games and apps are being ported for Linux, we need more. Come on all you programmers, get with the program. Tell your employees to start porting, or just do it yourself, we won't tell.
15. List the top one or two possible improvements that you would like to see made to Windows.:
In simple words.....
1) Let windows "play nice" with 3rd party programs. Windows and other Microsoft programs crash enough, but for some "mysterious" reason, non-Microsoft products crash more often.
2) Don't be so f*&@ing greedy! Sell products at a REASONABLE price! $170 for XP, $500 for Office?! What, Billy doesn't have enough greenbacks? Please, he has enough stashed away to pay off the national debt!
3) Let YOUR employees do the product debugging, not the consumer. Release a product ONLY when it's "ready for prime time". Not just to meet some stupid deadline! I can think of MANY more, but I'm past the 2 limit.
16. List the top one or two improvements that you would like to see made to Linux.:
1) More device drivers. These wimpy hardware vendors should get off their asses and either start porting their drivers or give the code to the Open source community and let someone else do it!
2) Games/Apps. Even though more games and apps are being ported for Linux, we need more. Come on all you programmers, get with the program. Tell your employees to start porting, or just do it yourself, we won't tell.
What best describes your Linux knowledge level? Intermediate
How long have you used Linux? More than 2 years
Please describe your primary home Linux computer.
Monitor: 17" LCD, memory (RAM): 257MB to 384MB, processor type: AMD, processor speed: 501MHz to 1GHz, number of CPUs: 1, hard drive space: 20.1GB to 40GB, length of ownership: 2.1 to 3 years
What OS came with your primary Linux system when you got it? Linux
What region are you from? Europe
Who would you recommend use Linux at home? Intermediate, power and expert users
Primary reasons I like Linux for the home:
It's cheaper, there is more free add-on software, more secure than Windows, no need to constantly keep installing updates and fixes, easier to use than Windows, easier to install than Windows, better install and uninstall of additional software, no enforced license registration, better scripting, better command line, easeir to customize exactly how I want it, more intuitive and simpler to understand, Linux community support, better reliability, the satisfaction of not giving Microsoft more money, I don't trust Microsoft, I don't want to use proprietary software, I don't want to use commercial software.
What other operating system do you use at home? AmigaOS 3.9
List the top one or two possible improvements that you would like to see made to Windows.Remove the need to constantly upgrade your license.
Include a C compiler (from a non-Microsoft vendor) and a full set of system libraries and APIs as standard, free of charge.
List the top one or two improvements that you would like to see made to Linux.
I can't think of any.
How long have you used Linux? More than 2 years
Please describe your primary home Linux computer.
Monitor: 17" LCD, memory (RAM): 257MB to 384MB, processor type: AMD, processor speed: 501MHz to 1GHz, number of CPUs: 1, hard drive space: 20.1GB to 40GB, length of ownership: 2.1 to 3 years
What OS came with your primary Linux system when you got it? Linux
What region are you from? Europe
Who would you recommend use Linux at home? Intermediate, power and expert users
Primary reasons I like Linux for the home:
It's cheaper, there is more free add-on software, more secure than Windows, no need to constantly keep installing updates and fixes, easier to use than Windows, easier to install than Windows, better install and uninstall of additional software, no enforced license registration, better scripting, better command line, easeir to customize exactly how I want it, more intuitive and simpler to understand, Linux community support, better reliability, the satisfaction of not giving Microsoft more money, I don't trust Microsoft, I don't want to use proprietary software, I don't want to use commercial software.
What other operating system do you use at home? AmigaOS 3.9
List the top one or two possible improvements that you would like to see made to Windows.Remove the need to constantly upgrade your license.
Include a C compiler (from a non-Microsoft vendor) and a full set of system libraries and APIs as standard, free of charge.
List the top one or two improvements that you would like to see made to Linux.
I can't think of any.
Here's want I told Microsoft to Question 15.
"Oh...there sooo many! Here are a few.
1) Realistic pricing.
2) NO MANDATORY REGISTRATION AND PRODUCT ACTIVATION- main reason for avoiding WinXP.
3) Windows made more secure.
4) Windows made opensource, ie; made open to public scrutiny,
6) Stop relying in security by obscurity.
7) Windows' EULA(s)
What has put me off Microsoft / Windows?
1) Unrealistic pricing.
2) Microsoft treats us like, or assumes, we're all criminals - I OWN everything I have! NO MANDATORY REGISTRATION AND PRODUCT ACTIVATION- main reason for avoiding WinXP.
3) YOU (ie: Microsoft) ARE NOT TRUSTWORTHY.
4) Microsoft is a cheating monopolistic bunch of thieves.
5) Microsoft relies on buying up competition and buying up new ideas instead of true innovation. Then lies to the public and claims that Microsoft are innovators.
6) Windows is not as secure as Linux.
7) Windows is not open to public (opensource) scrutiny,
8) and relies to some degree on security by obscurity.
9) Windows' EULA(s) (as are many other Microsoft EULA's - including Passport.net) are appalling - and also one of the main reasons for ditching MS.
10) 2,3,4,5, & 9 are all reasons that I find Microsoft morally apprehensible. Microsoft's behavior is offensive and has set me dead against Microsoft on every front.
11) I don't want to be legally / financially tied to Microsoft, or allow Microsoft carte blanche rights to ideas I have / own, that is demanded in some Microsoft EULA's.
12) I avoid Hotmail and Passport.net like the Black Plague."
"Oh...there sooo many! Here are a few.
1) Realistic pricing.
2) NO MANDATORY REGISTRATION AND PRODUCT ACTIVATION- main reason for avoiding WinXP.
3) Windows made more secure.
4) Windows made opensource, ie; made open to public scrutiny,
6) Stop relying in security by obscurity.
7) Windows' EULA(s)
What has put me off Microsoft / Windows?
1) Unrealistic pricing.
2) Microsoft treats us like, or assumes, we're all criminals - I OWN everything I have! NO MANDATORY REGISTRATION AND PRODUCT ACTIVATION- main reason for avoiding WinXP.
3) YOU (ie: Microsoft) ARE NOT TRUSTWORTHY.
4) Microsoft is a cheating monopolistic bunch of thieves.
5) Microsoft relies on buying up competition and buying up new ideas instead of true innovation. Then lies to the public and claims that Microsoft are innovators.
6) Windows is not as secure as Linux.
7) Windows is not open to public (opensource) scrutiny,
8) and relies to some degree on security by obscurity.
9) Windows' EULA(s) (as are many other Microsoft EULA's - including Passport.net) are appalling - and also one of the main reasons for ditching MS.
10) 2,3,4,5, & 9 are all reasons that I find Microsoft morally apprehensible. Microsoft's behavior is offensive and has set me dead against Microsoft on every front.
11) I don't want to be legally / financially tied to Microsoft, or allow Microsoft carte blanche rights to ideas I have / own, that is demanded in some Microsoft EULA's.
12) I avoid Hotmail and Passport.net like the Black Plague."
You all forgotten to mention one important issue.
In General, Linux promote honesty, MSWindows promote piracy.
In Business, Linux encourage decency, MSWindows recruit theives and mal-ethincity
In General, Linux promote honesty, MSWindows promote piracy.
In Business, Linux encourage decency, MSWindows recruit theives and mal-ethincity
but doubt they find anything usefull between my awnsers, for it has been more than 5y since I used M$ products (3.11, the best Windoze ever)
Besides Money/securety/speed/performance it was a moral choice for me not to be ripped off by some BillyG.
Besides Money/securety/speed/performance it was a moral choice for me not to be ripped off by some BillyG.
about Linux is not on their survey. I love the way open source software empowers people. I am delighted that my 18 yr old daughter wanted to take an intro computer programing class after her first experience with Linux. My 10 yr old son wants to learn how to program. Open Source gives individuals an I can do it attitude.
I don't think that my answers gave them any satisfaction, as there is no way that I'm ever going back to MS
I don't think that my answers gave them any satisfaction, as there is no way that I'm ever going back to MS
more than 5y since I used M$ products (3.11, the best Windoze ever)
If you haven't used any version of Windows in the last 5 years, how do you know that they are inferior to 3.11?
Such lack of logic gives us a clue that you are an idiot.
If you haven't used any version of Windows in the last 5 years, how do you know that they are inferior to 3.11?
Such lack of logic gives us a clue that you are an idiot.
Maybe from the absolute lack of *any* news telling about *any* improvement which was not possible in 3.11?
C'mon, you know deep inside, they haven't done anything useful since then...
C'mon, you know deep inside, they haven't done anything useful since then...
Here's what I posted on the comments section of
the 'poll':
1. Stop trying to control all aspects of the computer. The 'Trusted Computing' push is what is really keeping me from even considering any of your more recent OS releases such as XP.
2. Backwards compatibility - Each new release forces others not running the new release to not be able to communicate with users of the new release. NO WAY.
the 'poll':
1. Stop trying to control all aspects of the computer. The 'Trusted Computing' push is what is really keeping me from even considering any of your more recent OS releases such as XP.
2. Backwards compatibility - Each new release forces others not running the new release to not be able to communicate with users of the new release. NO WAY.
Mr. Surkan did this at the Greater Seattle Linux User's Group. His real email address is msurkan@microsoft.com.
As reported <A HREF="http://www.mwvlug.org/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=10" TITLE="mwvlug.org">here</a mwvlug.org>.
As reported <A HREF="http://www.mwvlug.org/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=10" TITLE="mwvlug.org">here</a mwvlug.org>.
Is Mr. Surkan completely insane, or just too stupid to install a Linux distro and figure out what the hell's wrong with MS by comparison?
I use Linux because it is not controlled by a corporation that will ask me stupid questions like why I use Linux.
Love that! Perfect!
Are you people friggin nuts!!! Anything you say can and will be used against....Linux. Wakeup! These aren't nice people who give a rats a** about Linux. They are simply looking for ammunition to use to help them in their quest to destroy Linux. Tell em to take a flying leap. Stop getting all touchy feelie and try and remember the source of these questions...Redmond....Steve Balmer....BILL FRIGGING GATES!
I'm willing to bet that the survey is harvesting every piece of information that your browser will give it. I plan to respond from a computer at the public library.
I don't mind that Linux will get better competition.
Only problem is M$ don't want to compete
Look at the questions...this is wierd. They seem to be either genuinly concerned about your opinions, or (more likely) their trying to get a better feel what kind of wacko's are opposing them.
???
???
Linux is a threat to Windows because MS has no way to keep up. That's why MS considers Linux to be a player when it has such small market share (for now). I say, bring it on, MS!
Hit us with your best shot. Linux will still be better, even if BillyG throws a billion dollars at Windows to fix its flaws.
Of course, MS might be thinking about switching horses completely - and coming up with a whole new "next generation" to replace both W and L.
Hit us with your best shot. Linux will still be better, even if BillyG throws a billion dollars at Windows to fix its flaws.
Of course, MS might be thinking about switching horses completely - and coming up with a whole new "next generation" to replace both W and L.
Yes! This is the first thing that ran through my head when I heard Microsoft was asking Linux users for their help. They are out to attack Linux and promote their restrictive and flawed system over all others and NOT for the purpose of solving problems.
This is like helping them create the "holloween document". Why should anybody who respects innovation, enjoys secure computing, and wants to promote those efforts and more, help tell Microsoft how they can spread more FUD in hopes of keeping users of their system from switching to Linux?
I strongly suggest that nothing is presented to them which is anywhere near useful for them in their fight to control the market further.
To heck with you Bill Gates, Steve Balmer and company. It was your illegal tactics to prevent competition that got you into this mess and in no way will I help you define a way to LOOK like you are changing your ways. Over 15 years of bad behavior requires years of consistant GOOD behavior ( not just more shallow lies ) before I will even consider helping you improve your product.
I can't believe anybody would even consider helping them. Look how stupid it was for Sun to think Microsoft really wanted to license Java. How stupid it was for Sybase to think Microsoft would help it in the market for databases. The list is long at how supposedly smart people/businesses thought they could work/partner with Microsoft and found out how wrong they were. But all too late. These guys will crush anybody at any cost to protect their "precious" Windows.
Picture Bill Gates as Golum, calling Windows "my precious"..... Help him/them? I think not.
This is like helping them create the "holloween document". Why should anybody who respects innovation, enjoys secure computing, and wants to promote those efforts and more, help tell Microsoft how they can spread more FUD in hopes of keeping users of their system from switching to Linux?
I strongly suggest that nothing is presented to them which is anywhere near useful for them in their fight to control the market further.
To heck with you Bill Gates, Steve Balmer and company. It was your illegal tactics to prevent competition that got you into this mess and in no way will I help you define a way to LOOK like you are changing your ways. Over 15 years of bad behavior requires years of consistant GOOD behavior ( not just more shallow lies ) before I will even consider helping you improve your product.
I can't believe anybody would even consider helping them. Look how stupid it was for Sun to think Microsoft really wanted to license Java. How stupid it was for Sybase to think Microsoft would help it in the market for databases. The list is long at how supposedly smart people/businesses thought they could work/partner with Microsoft and found out how wrong they were. But all too late. These guys will crush anybody at any cost to protect their "precious" Windows.
Picture Bill Gates as Golum, calling Windows "my precious"..... Help him/them? I think not.
Jesus H. Christ in a birch bark canoe people. It seems to me that there are a lot of you people suffering from accute paranoia. For the love of god, a survey is not an "attack on linux". So they want to gather information, big deal. If you ran a company and I don't care how scrupulous or unscrupulous your buisness practices are, you would want to have information on your competitors and any and all presences in the marketplace that may impact your buisness. It's *NORMAL*. It's not like they asked you to switch or even install their products and give them a side by side comparison, or to use their products. I'm no Microsoft fan, and haven't used any of their products on my own machines since around 93. But that still is no reason to become a paranoid and delusional person posting frivolous messages about everything the company does being an "attack on linux". In fact by suggesting such a thing you yourself have made an "attack on microsoft", which in turn would make you no better than your percieved adversary, would it not?
so please tell my why a user of a system which has been called "The resurgence of Communism", "a threat to Innovation", and a competitor do ANYTHING to assist that company create or improve said companies competitive advantage?
I don't care if they are asking for a slice of cheese, they are no friend of anybody or company which wishes to use computing technology to enhance their lives or work.
Giving them incorrect information is another thing.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;-)
I don't care if they are asking for a slice of cheese, they are no friend of anybody or company which wishes to use computing technology to enhance their lives or work.
Giving them incorrect information is another thing.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;-)
That is an awful insult to Gollum, and I, for one, am disgusted that you would compare a fine, upstanding person like Gollum to that Gates person!
=)
=)
- Are you people friggin nuts!!! Anything you say can and will be used against....Linux.
Microsoft will be Microsoft. For one, they do not do anything because they feel like being nice -- including these surveys. Secondly, and more dangerous, they are not to be trusted if they ask your company to be a "partner" with them. Nobody partners with Microsoft -- they are too big and too ambitious. Realizing this is just plain smart.
You have it pegged.... Better to give spent fuel rods to the North Koreans than to give these slimeballs any information.
You can believe Microsoft will take the sections of the survey on linux, and use it to their evil ends. OR you can believe Microsoft researchers will use it to improve the OS. And the material they could use to their evil ends is easy to read about on linux forums. But there aren't many places where people points out how Windows can be improved.
I'm hoping that in a couple years Windows will be good again so I can dump Win2k. If not, hopefully desktop linux will be ready!
I'm hoping that in a couple years Windows will be good again so I can dump Win2k. If not, hopefully desktop linux will be ready!
"good again"? When was it good before? I have yet to see any evidence of that.
As far as "using the information to improve [Windows]".. users have been (vocally) telling them how to improve their non-OS for years now. They are no more interested in actually -improving- the dead horse than they are in giving away the source code.
As far as "using the information to improve [Windows]".. users have been (vocally) telling them how to improve their non-OS for years now. They are no more interested in actually -improving- the dead horse than they are in giving away the source code.
You are absolutely right, they are in heavy battle with Linux and any information they can get about the pathern how Linux users use their operating system will ofcourse be used against Linux, do not think otherwise.
I feel it hard to believe that it will not be used against Linux, so if you feel like you have to take the survey be sure to check it with random selection.
I feel it hard to believe that it will not be used against Linux, so if you feel like you have to take the survey be sure to check it with random selection.
Yes, they will try to use that against Linux,
but, in the other hand, we are open community and
open culture.
I know they will end up in running their GUI on
the top of BSD kernel, like Mac, anyway.
DG
but, in the other hand, we are open community and
open culture.
I know they will end up in running their GUI on
the top of BSD kernel, like Mac, anyway.
DG
Can we ask Microsoft why IBM is not pushing them anymore??
His name<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... is linux.
His name<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... is linux.
hmmm... i think you may find that Bill Gates has too much of the market and he needs to find competition so hes business doesn't fall in front of his eyes!
This message has only just reached our LUG. My first reaction was suspicion, now having read the news here, it is certainty. Considering current circumstances, and the date (take a look at the SCO timeline) I would expect Kaiser Bill to have initiated this, and also expect Michael Surkan to be non-existant (the initials are MS, after
all).
It's a data miner exercise, looking for email addresses for linux users - what was that about MS deciding to enforce patents that may relate to Linux?
all).
It's a data miner exercise, looking for email addresses for linux users - what was that about MS deciding to enforce patents that may relate to Linux?
I respect your opinion. And I agree there's no _compelling_ reason to answer them.
The reason I moved to answer questions on the survey was that I know they will be read by someone working at Microsoft, and for a lot of people, it just a job. Remember Nat Freidman previously worked on IIS.
Microsoft has *already* outsmarted us in market knowledge and political sophistication. They are losing because they are severly outnumbered, and because they treat their users so terribly. They will sooner or later have to join us -- they may as well know why they're losing, and why they can't do anything about it. That way the nicer or smarter ones can jump ship before they Iceberg their careers.
Also I think it is a good idea to never refuse to help someone because they are currently enemies. Alliances change: consider IBM. Imagine how much more *actual* work could be accomplished by them should Microsoft actually choose to cooperate instead of attempting to deep-six their competitors through monopoly power.
As others have said, it's not remarkable that Microsoft has competition in Linux, it is remarkable that such a large, dysfunctional, bureaucracy manages to write software at all.
Ed
Yeah, and the government is run by aliens.
Don't be silly. The government is not run by aliens.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>..the government is -working with them-. Big difference.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;)
i thought the point was to have a good OS for people to use. if you really believe in linux it will continue to survive.
Bravo. I took the time to look over the survey... and was immediatly struck with the options. If you answer that you don't want to give MS money, then their final report will show "Most Linux users only use the OS out of an unexplained dislike for MS."
If most linux users have nice PCs at home, they will spin it that Linux claims of running on older hardware are discounted by the fact that 98% of home users have 2Ghz or faster systems.
Almost every item on the survey can be spun to MS's benefit regardless of your answer.
One of the most telling facts is that the opening page has you agreeing to this: "By offering suggestions through this survey, you give Microsoft full permission to use them freely."
I would have considered filling it out if it had stated instead that the survey would be used internally to improve their products and results would not be shared with the public or used in press releases (etc.)
As it is, by filling out the survey, you give MS full rights to spin your comments and responses any way they see fit. Expect a future press release to show "proof" that Linux users are kooks, freeloaders and hippies who use Linux primarily only because it isn't MS Windows.
If most linux users have nice PCs at home, they will spin it that Linux claims of running on older hardware are discounted by the fact that 98% of home users have 2Ghz or faster systems.
Almost every item on the survey can be spun to MS's benefit regardless of your answer.
One of the most telling facts is that the opening page has you agreeing to this: "By offering suggestions through this survey, you give Microsoft full permission to use them freely."
I would have considered filling it out if it had stated instead that the survey would be used internally to improve their products and results would not be shared with the public or used in press releases (etc.)
As it is, by filling out the survey, you give MS full rights to spin your comments and responses any way they see fit. Expect a future press release to show "proof" that Linux users are kooks, freeloaders and hippies who use Linux primarily only because it isn't MS Windows.
1. What best describes your Linux knowledge level?
expert
2. How long have you used Linux?
more than 2 years
(it's interesting to note that they seem to only want to know about "recent" converts, based on the fact that everyone with 2+years is all rolled into one answer)
3. Do people ask you for Linux advice?
Yes
4. What best describes the kind of Linux user you are?
Hobbyist
5. Please describe your primary home Linux machine.
monitor typememory (RAM)processor typeprocessor speednumber of CPUshard drive spacelength of your ownership 17" - 385-512MB - Intel - 2.1-3G - 1 - 40.1-60G - more than 5
(It's interesting to also note here their bias that "all users buy a complete packaged system from a retailer". Some of this box is 5+ years old, some of it's
6. What OS came with your primary Linux system when you got it?
no os loaded
7. What kind of network connectivity do you use for your home Linux machine?
connecting to internetconnecting to home network
describe how your home Linux machine connects to a network
adsl - ethernet hub
8. What is the primary Linux distribution you use?
at homeat work
specify the Linux version you use Slackware - Slackware
9. What region are you from?
USA
10. Who would you recommend use Linux at home?
Beginners
Intermediate users
Power users
Expert users
->>>>>>Everyone
Only adventurous types
11. Rank the reasons you like Linux for the home.
Its cheaper
VI
There is more free add-on software
VI
Better gaming experience
Ability to run on old hardware
VI
More secure than Windows
VI
I want to get more Linux experience to help my career
No need to constantly keep installing updates and fixes
VI
Integration with consumer electronics devices
Better performance than Windows
VI
Easier to use than Windows
VI
Easier to install than Windows
VI
Better install and uninstall of additional software
VI
No enforced license registration
VI
Better scripting
VI
Better command line
VI
Better device and peripheral support
VI
Access to source code
VI
Easier to customize exactly how I want it
VI
More intuitive, simpler to understand
VI
Linux community support
VI
Better reliability
VI
The satisfaction of not giving Microsoft more money.
VI
I don't trust Microsoft
VI
I don't want to use proprietary software
VI
I don't want to use commercial software
VI
12. Rank the importance of various tasks you use your home Linux system for.
not importantvery importantN/A
Playing games
Hosting games
Internet gatewayVI
FirewallVI
A home file serverVI
A home web serverVI
Word processingVI
SpreadsheetsVI
DatabasesVI
E-mail<nobr>V<wbr></nobr> I
Web browsingVI
Home financesVI
ProgrammingVI
Desk Top Publishing
Photo EditingVI
Video EditingVI
Recording live TV/ VideoVI
Other
13. What other operating system do you use at home?
Windows 95
Windows 98
Windows ME
Windows NT 4 Workstation
Windows NT 4 Server
Windows 2000 Pro
Windows 2000 Server
Windows XP
Windows 2003 Server
Apple Macintosh
Other
-------Other (please specify)
No other OS, only Linux
14. Do you dual boot between different operating systems on your primary home Linux PC?
YesNo
--no--
15. List the top one or two possible improvements that you would like to see made to Windows.
Throw it away.
16. List the top one or two improvements that you would like to see made to Linux.
17. Please list your e-mail address if you don't mind answering follow-up questions. Your e-mail address will only be used for follow-up on this survey.
expert
2. How long have you used Linux?
more than 2 years
(it's interesting to note that they seem to only want to know about "recent" converts, based on the fact that everyone with 2+years is all rolled into one answer)
3. Do people ask you for Linux advice?
Yes
4. What best describes the kind of Linux user you are?
Hobbyist
5. Please describe your primary home Linux machine.
monitor typememory (RAM)processor typeprocessor speednumber of CPUshard drive spacelength of your ownership 17" - 385-512MB - Intel - 2.1-3G - 1 - 40.1-60G - more than 5
(It's interesting to also note here their bias that "all users buy a complete packaged system from a retailer". Some of this box is 5+ years old, some of it's
6. What OS came with your primary Linux system when you got it?
no os loaded
7. What kind of network connectivity do you use for your home Linux machine?
connecting to internetconnecting to home network
describe how your home Linux machine connects to a network
adsl - ethernet hub
8. What is the primary Linux distribution you use?
at homeat work
specify the Linux version you use Slackware - Slackware
9. What region are you from?
USA
10. Who would you recommend use Linux at home?
Beginners
Intermediate users
Power users
Expert users
->>>>>>Everyone
Only adventurous types
11. Rank the reasons you like Linux for the home.
Its cheaper
VI
There is more free add-on software
VI
Better gaming experience
Ability to run on old hardware
VI
More secure than Windows
VI
I want to get more Linux experience to help my career
No need to constantly keep installing updates and fixes
VI
Integration with consumer electronics devices
Better performance than Windows
VI
Easier to use than Windows
VI
Easier to install than Windows
VI
Better install and uninstall of additional software
VI
No enforced license registration
VI
Better scripting
VI
Better command line
VI
Better device and peripheral support
VI
Access to source code
VI
Easier to customize exactly how I want it
VI
More intuitive, simpler to understand
VI
Linux community support
VI
Better reliability
VI
The satisfaction of not giving Microsoft more money.
VI
I don't trust Microsoft
VI
I don't want to use proprietary software
VI
I don't want to use commercial software
VI
12. Rank the importance of various tasks you use your home Linux system for.
not importantvery importantN/A
Playing games
Hosting games
Internet gatewayVI
FirewallVI
A home file serverVI
A home web serverVI
Word processingVI
SpreadsheetsVI
DatabasesVI
E-mail<nobr>V<wbr></nobr> I
Web browsingVI
Home financesVI
ProgrammingVI
Desk Top Publishing
Photo EditingVI
Video EditingVI
Recording live TV/ VideoVI
Other
13. What other operating system do you use at home?
Windows 95
Windows 98
Windows ME
Windows NT 4 Workstation
Windows NT 4 Server
Windows 2000 Pro
Windows 2000 Server
Windows XP
Windows 2003 Server
Apple Macintosh
Other
-------Other (please specify)
No other OS, only Linux
14. Do you dual boot between different operating systems on your primary home Linux PC?
YesNo
--no--
15. List the top one or two possible improvements that you would like to see made to Windows.
Throw it away.
16. List the top one or two improvements that you would like to see made to Linux.
17. Please list your e-mail address if you don't mind answering follow-up questions. Your e-mail address will only be used for follow-up on this survey.
it's interesting to note that they seem to only want to know about "recent" converts, based on the fact that everyone with 2+years is all rolled into one answer
I noticed that too. After all, I've been using Linux for nearly 10 years now. In all that time it has been consistently more stable, reliable and secure than Windows.
I noticed that too. After all, I've been using Linux for nearly 10 years now. In all that time it has been consistently more stable, reliable and secure than Windows.
God I wish I was as clever as you.
Not that bad considering WINE, WineX, DOSbox, tons of emulators, native ports like http://www.tuxgames.com http://www.linuxgames.com and new games http://www.freshmeat.net
I like VI too!
How can Microsoft get my business? For starters, how about delivering secure and stable products at a fair price. Then, how about telling the truth when confronted with product security and stability issues.
Speaking of telling the truth, Microsoft could publish all the secret application programming interfaces so all vendors could compete fairly in the market place. Let’s not forget about telling the truth when under oath in a court of law.
Dumping their long time PR company for one that doesn’t seem to view truth as the enemy, and dumping “Dancing Monkey Boy” Steve Balmer for someone who seems to having a conscience, would go a long way in restoring a modicum of confidence in the company.
So, how can Microsoft get my business? It probably can’t. Bill Gates seems to have made choices early on about security, reliability, and truth telling. There’s no practical way to rectify them now because they seem to be corner stones of Microsoft company culture. Getting a culture's head straight is a very difficult, if not an impossible task.
In my opinion, the fundamental problem facing Microsoft isn't a technology one but a human one. I don't think any amount of money, or training, or engineering will fix it.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...John
Speaking of telling the truth, Microsoft could publish all the secret application programming interfaces so all vendors could compete fairly in the market place. Let’s not forget about telling the truth when under oath in a court of law.
Dumping their long time PR company for one that doesn’t seem to view truth as the enemy, and dumping “Dancing Monkey Boy” Steve Balmer for someone who seems to having a conscience, would go a long way in restoring a modicum of confidence in the company.
So, how can Microsoft get my business? It probably can’t. Bill Gates seems to have made choices early on about security, reliability, and truth telling. There’s no practical way to rectify them now because they seem to be corner stones of Microsoft company culture. Getting a culture's head straight is a very difficult, if not an impossible task.
In my opinion, the fundamental problem facing Microsoft isn't a technology one but a human one. I don't think any amount of money, or training, or engineering will fix it.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...John
Microsoft could at least *try* to start convincing me that I should be their customer by shucking their current business practices and not only start, but consistently over the next few years, exhibit some ethical business practices.
The one incident that personifies Microsoft's Evil Empire image is the one involving the Korn Shell. MS bought out the rights to a commercial version of the Korn Shell and at a show-n-tell at a major computer show, tried to tout it as being the definitive reference. At that point, someone in the audience started politely asking questions about some of the incompatibilities and other bugs in the product, and the MS Product Manager tried to talk around it. When it was pointed out to him that the questioner was none other than David Korn himself, the MSPM had to back-pedal in full retreat. He knew he'd been caught red-handed.
Unfortunately, there are many, many other similar stunts that MS has pulled over the years. IMNSHO, the one thing that MS could do for Linux is to stay the hell away from it and not fight it or engage it in any way. (One possible exception might be as a debugging tool for their own products). It's bad enough that Microsoft sells shoddy products - it's even worse that they try to own the market, instead of trying to compete on the true merits of their products.
The one incident that personifies Microsoft's Evil Empire image is the one involving the Korn Shell. MS bought out the rights to a commercial version of the Korn Shell and at a show-n-tell at a major computer show, tried to tout it as being the definitive reference. At that point, someone in the audience started politely asking questions about some of the incompatibilities and other bugs in the product, and the MS Product Manager tried to talk around it. When it was pointed out to him that the questioner was none other than David Korn himself, the MSPM had to back-pedal in full retreat. He knew he'd been caught red-handed.
Unfortunately, there are many, many other similar stunts that MS has pulled over the years. IMNSHO, the one thing that MS could do for Linux is to stay the hell away from it and not fight it or engage it in any way. (One possible exception might be as a debugging tool for their own products). It's bad enough that Microsoft sells shoddy products - it's even worse that they try to own the market, instead of trying to compete on the true merits of their products.
How can Microsoft get my business? For starters, how about delivering secure and stable products at a fair price. Then, how about telling the truth when confronted with product security and stability issues.
Not.
Good.
Enough.
Microsoft, the company, has been such a total ASSHOLE - and i did think a bit before using that word - in the computing space that they have forever forfeited their eligibility for my business.
ok, there is ONE possible way:
- release all their products under the GPL
- grant to everyone free, unconditional, perpetual rights to any of their patents
- all MS employees must convert to atheism and become vegetarians.
- fire anyone at or above project manager status or in the legal/licensing department, behead them, and put their severed heads on sharpened sticks lining the road to the redmond campus as a reminder to all future management.
- 3. all MS employees must convert to atheism and become vegetarians.
Bill Gates IS an athiest (of the 'gods? you must be kidding' variety not the strident 'down with religion' variety).
He won't make the mistake of commenting on religion again in public, though.
As for vegitarinism and the beheadings, well, good luck!
- In my opinion, the fundamental problem facing Microsoft isn't a technology one but a human one. I don't think any amount of money, or training, or engineering will fix it.
Along with that (and I definately agree with you), they are not *motivated* to change. They are a big company with territory to protect...and they will perform an absurd amount of thrashing in any attempts to actually change when nuking or simply ignoring others is much much more easily done.
I don't see how they will all the sudden change this basic inertia without breaking themselves into mini-microsofts and actually competing against each other. Oops. Forget I said anything.
Is it just me? Some of their questions would seem to contradict their own PR.
- "No need to constantly keep installing updates and fixes"...I get a good deal more updates on fedora. But thats good, and i can choose who i trust for those updates.
- "Integration with consumer electronics devices"...I don't think even the most hard-core linux user can believe linux is better at that. But then we don't have the manufacturers in our pockets wither
- "Better performance than Windows"...is this a question, are they acknowledging this at last?"
- "More secure than Windows"...same question?
Is it just me? Some of their questions would seem to contradict their own PR.
It does. All counted, I find it pretty decent, there are some really good points asked. On the questions on what to improve, I easily came up with lots of stuff for Windows, and for Linux only 'Better 3rd party applications support'. I couldn't find more that isn't either there or being fixed soon.
And, yes, I chose to be honest. At the end of the day, I believe honesty will prevail (which is why I trust Linus over Ballmer any time<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:). There's little point in trying to be zealous, even those rigged MindCraft tests eventually helped to improve Linux significantly!
The questions aren't contradicting their PR, they're just asking whether or not you believe their PR.
Been using Linux for more than 2 years. Intermediate/advanced user. My main computer is more than 2 years old and I think still has a lot of life left in it, thanks to Linux. I recommend Linux to everyone.
I answered "very important" on nearly all the questions. I use Linux only (though my wife's box is dual-boot).
How to improve Windows: Irrelevant. I do not think Windows has a future.
I answered "very important" on nearly all the questions. I use Linux only (though my wife's box is dual-boot).
How to improve Windows: Irrelevant. I do not think Windows has a future.
I use Linux only (though my wife's box is dual-boot).
must... resist... urge!<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... to make... OBVIOUS.... joke! bad..... bad.... obvious.... must FIGHT... URGE.... obvious... BAD.... resist...
Changes in Windows -- "lose the 'swiss army knife' approach. Use the Linux installs as a model."
Changes in Linux "I'd like to see GPL get the same familarity and respect as PBS."
Hmn,..I should have said PBS or NPR, now that I think of it.
Changes in Linux "I'd like to see GPL get the same familarity and respect as PBS."
Hmn,..I should have said PBS or NPR, now that I think of it.
What they are asking for is valuable marketing
information. I'm certainly available for hire
as a marketing consultant.
If they want the valuable marketing information
our LUG group posesses, they should be willing
to pay members market rates for it. Thats my attitude.
I do the same with telemarketers on the phone.
At the first question, I tell them that they are
requesting valuable marking information, and that
the information is available. How would they
like to pay ?
This is not outrageous. They pay firms lots of
money to do that kind of research, and I and
each member of my LUG can offer that service to
Microsoft. It's our time they want, and my time
is more valuable than theirs.
I propose that each LUG send Microsoft a letter
saying that members are available for such
consultation, what our rates are, and tell them
what dates would be convenient. The marketing
agreement woudl not be a sale of information, but
a licensing agreement where they could use the
information for one year, at which time it
expires and they must destroy all documents
given them, and generated during the year.
Microsoft also has the option of contacting our
representing organizations over at OSDL or
Newsforge. Why don't they want open discussion?
Pride.
The bottom line is Microsoft -still- doesn't 'get' it. And they won't. Because they have to first -listen-. Collecting data isn't listening. Someone over there needs to read Dale Carnegies book again.
Here's a perspective that says a lot, but won't answer their Q's: No matter what direction the economy has gone, no matter what the politicians have done, no matter what the lawyers have tried, no matter what Microsoft has tried, nothing has affected the course of the Linux movement negatively since the beginning 10 years ago, or open source in general.
THAT is what scares Microsoft.
PS: I have owned MS stock for over 10 years.
W in B-More Town...........
information. I'm certainly available for hire
as a marketing consultant.
If they want the valuable marketing information
our LUG group posesses, they should be willing
to pay members market rates for it. Thats my attitude.
I do the same with telemarketers on the phone.
At the first question, I tell them that they are
requesting valuable marking information, and that
the information is available. How would they
like to pay ?
This is not outrageous. They pay firms lots of
money to do that kind of research, and I and
each member of my LUG can offer that service to
Microsoft. It's our time they want, and my time
is more valuable than theirs.
I propose that each LUG send Microsoft a letter
saying that members are available for such
consultation, what our rates are, and tell them
what dates would be convenient. The marketing
agreement woudl not be a sale of information, but
a licensing agreement where they could use the
information for one year, at which time it
expires and they must destroy all documents
given them, and generated during the year.
Microsoft also has the option of contacting our
representing organizations over at OSDL or
Newsforge. Why don't they want open discussion?
Pride.
The bottom line is Microsoft -still- doesn't 'get' it. And they won't. Because they have to first -listen-. Collecting data isn't listening. Someone over there needs to read Dale Carnegies book again.
Here's a perspective that says a lot, but won't answer their Q's: No matter what direction the economy has gone, no matter what the politicians have done, no matter what the lawyers have tried, no matter what Microsoft has tried, nothing has affected the course of the Linux movement negatively since the beginning 10 years ago, or open source in general.
THAT is what scares Microsoft.
PS: I have owned MS stock for over 10 years.
W in B-More Town...........
I propose that each LUG send Microsoft a letter
saying that members are available for such
consultation, what our rates are, and tell them
what dates would be convenient.
saying that members are available for such
consultation, what our rates are, and tell them
what dates would be convenient.
you should also stipulate that the information becomes public, perhaps through that GPL-like license for documentation... the name escapes me...
you should also stipulate that the information becomes public, perhaps through that GPL-like license for documentation... the name escapes me...
oh yeah: and then lie on the survey.
"Why don't you use Linux?"
"That information will be $10."
"Ok, here. Now why don't you use Linux?"
"Because information wants to be free!"
"That information will be $10."
"Ok, here. Now why don't you use Linux?"
"Because information wants to be free!"
erm, s/Linux/Windows/g
"Why don't you use Linux?"
"That information will be $10."
"Ok, here. Now why don't you use Linux?"
"Because information wants to be free!"
"That information will be $10."
"Ok, here. Now why don't you use Linux?"
"Because information wants to be free!"
There's nothing the GPL that says someone can't charge a reasonable fee for distribution...consider the amount to be paid for consideration of the time taken.
Is the level of paranoia embeeded deep in their company structure. WTF is this questionary for? They have 93%+ of client market and 50%+ of server market so why on earth do they want to know why minority is on other side? What is agenda here; having 99% everywhere? When will they feel safe? Where will they go after their primary markets shrink? And that pathetic sense of openess and kindness and friendship, with quality products for their customers and developers, that's pouring out of Redmond in last year or so is just hillarious. Like, you are 10 years late, guys. There is just one plan; to have it all, whatever it takes. And I don't think anyone should tell dear multibillion mr. Gates how to make his products better, especially not for free. There is nothing more scarry than having one firm, especially MS, with control of every god damn aspect of digital world in next 5, 10, 15 years. They must go down to acceptable level ASAP, god knows what will that paranoid freak do when he hits 70.
umm where on earth did you get over 50% of the server market? They don't and never did have that large a chunk of that market and have pretty much none in the embedded or supercomputer market (their OS doesn't scale that small or large).
What little server market they DO have is in the very low end.
What little server market they DO have is in the very low end.
What is agenda here; having 99% everywhere?
Yes! They're probably thinking long-term. No proprietary OS can compete with MS, but over the long run GNU/Linux may whittle away at their market share, and this is a no-no.
... even more than Linux users think Linux will suceed! And I'm very optimistic about the continued sucess of open source and Linux.
I get the suspicion that they're looking for people with pirated copies of Windows. Microsoft can't start sueing people using Windows, or they'll stop using Windows and it will loose market penetration. But they can sue people who don't use Windows anymore. "Look at those socialists! The programmers don't respect private intellectual property and the users pirate all of their commercial software. They're the drain on our economy."
I got half way through the survey and closed the window and deleted the three (3) cookies the site depositted on my computer.
I got half way through the survey and closed the window and deleted the three (3) cookies the site depositted on my computer.
Let us have a short retrospect of a quotation of Mr. Mahatma Gandhi:
"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they attack you, then you win."
Wellwell. Seems as if we are at Phase 3 then.
Good to know it is over soon...
"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they attack you, then you win."
Wellwell. Seems as if we are at Phase 3 then.
Good to know it is over soon...
Unfortunitly for Gandhi it ended at Phase 3.
I think we have been in phase 3 for a while - MS has been putting out negative publicity against Linux and recently stepped it up. Maybe they are afraid that we are starting to make the transition to stage 4 - look at how many governments are looking at Linux. Once government makes the transition, it will encourage more businesses to look at the benefits, and especially the non-profit making organisations. Looks like we are on the way to winning!
You can't, and I suspect, and hope, that many in the Linux community feel the same way.
Linux Just keeps getting better and better.
Posted by: Anonymous Coward on December 22, 2003 03:32 AM
About two and a half years ago I bought my current machine with win 98/se. I started dual booting with Debian about 6 months later. In that time Debian has done nothing but improve with age, while Windows is to the point that it crashes at least once a day. And with the impending loss of support from Microsoft I will probably not even be able to get software for is soon
with out paying big bucks for an O.S upgrade plus the resulting added cost of new hardware that X.P requires.
with out paying big bucks for an O.S upgrade plus the resulting added cost of new hardware that X.P requires.
So I think I will just backup the data on the windows partition and make room for more Linux goodness.
Re:Linux Just keeps getting better and better.
Posted by: Anonymous Coward on December 22, 2003 10:08 AM
You dumb shit. You can't compare Win98 to the latest Linux release. Grow up.
Re:Linux Just keeps getting better and better.
Posted by: Anonymous Coward on December 23, 2003 04:42 AM
Why can't he? He uses both. Or can he only comment if he shelled out the upgrade costs to get him current. Are you going to buy XP for him and send him a copy? Oh, and don't forget to donate to his new PC to run it. You obviously haven't looked around but in many places people are still running windows 98. The costs that you don't seem to be concerned about do affect a lot of people and companies. The only reason XP is around in most companies is that the new license agreements won't allow you to have much else.
It kind of is an interesting point you bring up though that the current versions of linux has the same hardware requirements of 98. Is this the case with XP? If it's not the same who is the idiot wanting to compare the two? Seems to me XP would loose drasticly in a comparison when trying to run on that hardware. I wonder how many signed drivers there are for some of that older equipment.
It kind of is an interesting point you bring up though that the current versions of linux has the same hardware requirements of 98. Is this the case with XP? If it's not the same who is the idiot wanting to compare the two? Seems to me XP would loose drasticly in a comparison when trying to run on that hardware. I wonder how many signed drivers there are for some of that older equipment.
Why any free software/open source user would waste their time and energy providing information for these people is beyond me.
And shame on Newsforge for suggesting anyone should.
And shame on Newsforge for suggesting anyone should.
I did a whois on the IP address and on surveymonkeys.This is not a M$ survey. Get Real people do You really think that with all the high priced progammers on staff at M$ they would pay surveymonkeys.
This is probably some of darly mcLied and scummxs doing.
It is a hoax
This is probably some of darly mcLied and scummxs doing.
It is a hoax
I guess someone could give them a buzz and find out who is sponsoring the survey. But it smells pretty bad anyway you slice it.
Registrant:
SURVEYMONKEY.COM (SURVEYMONKEY-DOM)
125 N. Hamilton St. Unit 402
Madison, WI 53703
US
Domain Name: SURVEYMONKEY.COM
Administrative Contact, Technical Contact:
SURVEYMONKEY.COM (SC5354-ORG) ryanf@surveymonkey.com
125 N. Hamilton St. Unit 402
Madison, WI 53703
US
608-442-8301 fax: 123 123 1234
Registrant:
SURVEYMONKEY.COM (SURVEYMONKEY-DOM)
125 N. Hamilton St. Unit 402
Madison, WI 53703
US
Domain Name: SURVEYMONKEY.COM
Administrative Contact, Technical Contact:
SURVEYMONKEY.COM (SC5354-ORG) ryanf@surveymonkey.com
125 N. Hamilton St. Unit 402
Madison, WI 53703
US
608-442-8301 fax: 123 123 1234
Indeed. Somebody at Newsforge must have a screw loose.
Most needed improvement to Microsoft Software:
Posted by: Anonymous Coward on December 22, 2003 03:38 AM
OPEN FORMATS AND STANDARDS.
Let us SEE how Word/Excel etc. docs are structured.
Let us SEE NTFS specs.
Let us SEE exactly what you're doing with SMB/CIFS.
etc.
Play fair, interoperate.
Let us SEE how Word/Excel etc. docs are structured.
Let us SEE NTFS specs.
Let us SEE exactly what you're doing with SMB/CIFS.
etc.
Play fair, interoperate.
Re:Most needed improvement to Microsoft Software:
Posted by: Anonymous Coward on December 22, 2003 06:45 AM
I totaly agree with you.
Re:Most needed improvement to Microsoft Software:
Posted by: Anonymous Coward on December 22, 2003 07:52 AM
That sounds more like a list of "Most needed improvements to Linux" - you just want MS to document it so Linux can support it.
Worth mentioning that the stupid survey page seems to be some horribly nonportable DHTML code that completely prevents me from filling it out, or even reading it.
I am, for the moment, trying to view it in IE6; haven't tried Mozilla.. oh, the irony.
I am, for the moment, trying to view it in IE6; haven't tried Mozilla.. oh, the irony.
The level of linux fanboydom here is truly frightening. Will they acknowledge _any_ valid points of windows? No... The responses here are mostly "holy crap, don't give them any ideas to improve their product, it might actually improve the situation! who the heck would want that??? OMG!?!1"
Linux has its place. Windows has its place. Hell, even Macs have their place. I'm fully willing to support linux in many places, but not the ubiquitous solution the fanbois here and elsewhere push. I'm all for microsoft trying to improve their products by looking to the only real competition to see why people use it. They might learn a thing or two and improve their OS to the point that I wouldn't need to use linux in the many applications that I do right now, and I could stick with one OS for everything. Wouldn't that be a damned shame?
Linux has its place. Windows has its place. Hell, even Macs have their place. I'm fully willing to support linux in many places, but not the ubiquitous solution the fanbois here and elsewhere push. I'm all for microsoft trying to improve their products by looking to the only real competition to see why people use it. They might learn a thing or two and improve their OS to the point that I wouldn't need to use linux in the many applications that I do right now, and I could stick with one OS for everything. Wouldn't that be a damned shame?
Will they acknowledge _any_ valid points of windows?
Your sin is in presuming that Windows has valid points. The mantra of "reboot, reinstall, reformat" grows old.
I'm all for microsoft trying to improve their products by looking to the only real competition to see why people use it.
Dude, they don't have to look at the competition to improve their products. They can improve Outlook simply by tightening up the screws and not letting it do dangerous things without user intervention.
If they're so clueless as to what "dangerous things" means, I can send them my rate card. They ought to know what I speak of. The fact that they're offering bounties on malware authors indicates they've no real desire to clean up their act. If they where serious about more secure computing, they'd be offering bounties for squashing bugs.
First of all, the responses are not "don't give them any info, thay may use it to improve windows". If you read carefully, the responses are "don't give them any info, they may use it to harm us (for example launch another FUD campaign). I find it telling that people simply do not trust MS intentions. I myself would not mind if MS improved Windows, since I am forced to use it every once a while, and if they improved it, I wouldn't have to dread those occasions.
That brings me to my second point: they ask what *one or two* things could be changed to improve windows. Frankly, I don't know. If they asked what 50 or 100 things should be changed, I could come up with a list, but one or two? Tho only things you can answer to that are useles general suggestions like "release the whole thing under GPL" or "throw it away".
That brings me to my second point: they ask what *one or two* things could be changed to improve windows. Frankly, I don't know. If they asked what 50 or 100 things should be changed, I could come up with a list, but one or two? Tho only things you can answer to that are useles general suggestions like "release the whole thing under GPL" or "throw it away".
You obviously don't get it -- it's more than just Linux being so much better in just about any and every respect.
It has to do with who actually controls your computer, your data, and whether you every really own the softare you buy.
If you think having MS clean up their act, put out decent code, and charge next to thing is equivalent to having Linux running everywhere (or any OSS softare -- it's about the source my man, it's all about the source), then no wonder you're amazed at the reaction to this survey.
So, unless MS opens the source to all their software, starts adhering to standards and stops screwing over their customers and the industry, there will be a group of people not happy with anything they do. Of course, I don't think MS is going to change the business plan that's made them so much money -- so the only alternative is to make room for software that actually serves us as computer users. MS won't stand for that either (by refusing to interoperate, incidentally screwing their own customers along the way), so I'm just waiting for the day the penguin comes to dominate the world. If the only way OSS is allowed to exist is to bring down the beast from Redmond, then so be it.
They're going to have to, for the first time in their existence, start competing on merit though (esp. as Linux gains credibility and MS FUD is less and less effective), and that's why I think MS is going to get creamed. Honestly, their only fighting chance is the 50 billion in the bank, they're capable of sticking around for awhile, even if they find themselves with 0 customers world-wide.
The lemming "keep screwing me over with inferior and expensive software and I'll gladly pay for it" attitude -- that's what I personally find disturbing.
But, you don't see me calling *you* an MS zealot!<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)
FYI
I do agree with one thing though, there is a place for MS. It's called win98 and it's used to play games. Why anyone who considers themselves computer literate would trust MS with data or any information that's important to them, I do not know. But, the bulk of the games we buy run on Win98 -- and I can live with MS (or the semi-literate 10 yr. old script kiddie living next door) peeking at saved game files.
It has to do with who actually controls your computer, your data, and whether you every really own the softare you buy.
If you think having MS clean up their act, put out decent code, and charge next to thing is equivalent to having Linux running everywhere (or any OSS softare -- it's about the source my man, it's all about the source), then no wonder you're amazed at the reaction to this survey.
So, unless MS opens the source to all their software, starts adhering to standards and stops screwing over their customers and the industry, there will be a group of people not happy with anything they do. Of course, I don't think MS is going to change the business plan that's made them so much money -- so the only alternative is to make room for software that actually serves us as computer users. MS won't stand for that either (by refusing to interoperate, incidentally screwing their own customers along the way), so I'm just waiting for the day the penguin comes to dominate the world. If the only way OSS is allowed to exist is to bring down the beast from Redmond, then so be it.
They're going to have to, for the first time in their existence, start competing on merit though (esp. as Linux gains credibility and MS FUD is less and less effective), and that's why I think MS is going to get creamed. Honestly, their only fighting chance is the 50 billion in the bank, they're capable of sticking around for awhile, even if they find themselves with 0 customers world-wide.
The lemming "keep screwing me over with inferior and expensive software and I'll gladly pay for it" attitude -- that's what I personally find disturbing.
But, you don't see me calling *you* an MS zealot!<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)
FYI
I do agree with one thing though, there is a place for MS. It's called win98 and it's used to play games. Why anyone who considers themselves computer literate would trust MS with data or any information that's important to them, I do not know. But, the bulk of the games we buy run on Win98 -- and I can live with MS (or the semi-literate 10 yr. old script kiddie living next door) peeking at saved game files.
I could not make the buttons work in Mozilla, so much for a clue on how to contact your intended
audience
audience
Who did this page? SCO?
There really isn't much reason to be concerned.
Posted by: Anonymous Coward on December 22, 2003 04:14 AM
Microsoft has lots of money, but even so they couldn't afford to hire the number of quality coders open source has. The open source world has literally MILLIONS of developers according to somewhat recent EU estimates.
The fact is, anything Microsoft has come out with that's been halfway worthwhile has had it's functionally replicated in the opensource world extremely rapidly in a technically superior and more stable implementation. And that's without any other projects biting the dust. Linux scales, in development as well as in computer power, the more that's developed, the more people use linux, the more people that use linux, the more developers there are who develop new stuff starting the cycle over again.
So by all means, give them their feedback, let them come up with whatever they are able. It never hurts to have new ideas out there since any good ones will just end up being available in the open source world anyway. Historically they haven't been able to outcode open source, why on earth would that change now?
The fact is, anything Microsoft has come out with that's been halfway worthwhile has had it's functionally replicated in the opensource world extremely rapidly in a technically superior and more stable implementation. And that's without any other projects biting the dust. Linux scales, in development as well as in computer power, the more that's developed, the more people use linux, the more people that use linux, the more developers there are who develop new stuff starting the cycle over again.
So by all means, give them their feedback, let them come up with whatever they are able. It never hurts to have new ideas out there since any good ones will just end up being available in the open source world anyway. Historically they haven't been able to outcode open source, why on earth would that change now?
This is just a survey to see how many OSS users care less that the answers will not be revealed. To gauge how much marketplace hypocrisy is out there, they can say "contribute for free and we'll take it private" and they'll have some inkling about public sentiment toward GPL vs. BSD licensing.
You can't
What is the point of answering now?!
Rabid hordes of linux-oids will drown any sane voice in the sea of their collective wild roar.
Would i recommend linux for simple users? - NO
Would i recommend linux for business (servers)? - Yes.
Rabid hordes of linux-oids will drown any sane voice in the sea of their collective wild roar.
Would i recommend linux for simple users? - NO
Would i recommend linux for business (servers)? - Yes.
By the way... Linux is not Free (as in Beer)
You have to attach a geek to each installation of Linux desktop.
I have seen a secretary reinstalling Windows... installing drivers... setting up email... fixing problems... she had liberal arts degree. Yes, its that easy to use, unlike linux
You have to attach a geek to each installation of Linux desktop.
I have seen a secretary reinstalling Windows... installing drivers... setting up email... fixing problems... she had liberal arts degree. Yes, its that easy to use, unlike linux
>You have to attach a geek to each installation of Linux >desktop.
no it is not, it is probably just your unfamiliarity with the unix operating environment that makes things so "difficult".
by the way it is much easier to install linux on whole networks of computers with differing hardware than windows<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...
>I have seen a secretary reinstalling Windows... installing drivers... setting up email... fixing >problems... she had liberal arts degree. Yes, its that easy to use, unlike linux
the installation procedure from modern windows and comercial linux distros is almost identical and it is no additional information required to install linux.
after installation linux has more functionality than windows
right out of the box.
no it is not, it is probably just your unfamiliarity with the unix operating environment that makes things so "difficult".
by the way it is much easier to install linux on whole networks of computers with differing hardware than windows<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...
>I have seen a secretary reinstalling Windows... installing drivers... setting up email... fixing >problems... she had liberal arts degree. Yes, its that easy to use, unlike linux
the installation procedure from modern windows and comercial linux distros is almost identical and it is no additional information required to install linux.
after installation linux has more functionality than windows
right out of the box.
Ha! Years ago it used to be "no one uses Linux!", now its "hordes".
Next it will be "everyone"<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)
Next it will be "everyone"<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)
The core problem with Microsoft is that they want to own everything. A natural desire and not really a problem before you are a monopoly.
I see no benefit to the opensource community in helping improve Microsoft products.
They will never open apis or source in any meaningful way based on these answers. The most this survey might do is cause some cosmetic P.R. level changes. These changes would benefit the opensource community in no way.
Further they are not sharing the results with the opensource community which might make it worthwhile for the community providing the answers.
I see no benefit to the opensource community in helping improve Microsoft products.
They will never open apis or source in any meaningful way based on these answers. The most this survey might do is cause some cosmetic P.R. level changes. These changes would benefit the opensource community in no way.
Further they are not sharing the results with the opensource community which might make it worthwhile for the community providing the answers.
ACK. And I wonder why Frank would post with a non-M$ e-mail address, but hotmail instead. That stinks.
That's right! While I think it's interesting to see this initiative from Microsoft, I *really* don't trust them.
I was filling in the form up to question 9, and then decided I wouldn't do it. I clicked "I don't trust Microsoft" and submitted the form... maybe that was even too much.
I am disgusted of a company that causes harm to the world (sofware, internet world or maybe further) and doesn't care as long as they make their money. I don't want to help them because I KNOW the only reason the want to know this is to be able to produce even better FUD and spread even smarter lies. They don't want to make a better product, they want to be able to enforce the use of it on you.
Maybe lots of people reading this think "heck, yet another MS-basher". I know. But it's so damn hard to explain my loathing to people as Microsoft is just so good at keeping them stupid.
I was filling in the form up to question 9, and then decided I wouldn't do it. I clicked "I don't trust Microsoft" and submitted the form... maybe that was even too much.
I am disgusted of a company that causes harm to the world (sofware, internet world or maybe further) and doesn't care as long as they make their money. I don't want to help them because I KNOW the only reason the want to know this is to be able to produce even better FUD and spread even smarter lies. They don't want to make a better product, they want to be able to enforce the use of it on you.
Maybe lots of people reading this think "heck, yet another MS-basher". I know. But it's so damn hard to explain my loathing to people as Microsoft is just so good at keeping them stupid.
All of my systems are dual boot.
I don't actually use Windows, but I keep it there incase I am required at any time (by force)to use a piece of software for which there is no alternative on Linux.
I can't remember the last time I booted into Windows.
I don't actually use Windows, but I keep it there incase I am required at any time (by force)to use a piece of software for which there is no alternative on Linux.
I can't remember the last time I booted into Windows.
A substitute for Turbo Tax would remove most I my dual boot need.
Anyone now of linux tax program? I couldn't find one.
The non-existence of one does not suprise me too much
condsidering the limited usefullness (which country/state) and the specialised knowledge required to get it right.
Anyone now of linux tax program? I couldn't find one.
The non-existence of one does not suprise me too much
condsidering the limited usefullness (which country/state) and the specialised knowledge required to get it right.
Windoze is Propietary Software. It can't be improved
What you don't understand, is the fact that real GNU users use Free Software not because of the technicall improvement, but because of the Ethical Improve. If you want to has a Tech discuse with Free Software comunity, say so, but even if you can turn windoze into a Real OS, into the Best OS in history, i would continue using Free Software.
But, of course, you don't understand what i am talking about.
May be if you take a look at this [http://en2.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethic] you will know what i am talking about. There is the answer to "make windoze better"
What you don't understand, is the fact that real GNU users use Free Software not because of the technicall improvement, but because of the Ethical Improve. If you want to has a Tech discuse with Free Software comunity, say so, but even if you can turn windoze into a Real OS, into the Best OS in history, i would continue using Free Software.
But, of course, you don't understand what i am talking about.
May be if you take a look at this [http://en2.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethic] you will know what i am talking about. There is the answer to "make windoze better"
And pay me a lot of doh then i will maybe tell you why I like Linux.
I think people like you do not deserve any free advice, buy it sucker like you seem to buy anything else in this stupid world.
Idiots...
I think people like you do not deserve any free advice, buy it sucker like you seem to buy anything else in this stupid world.
Idiots...
Linux:
Simpler installation for browser addons such as PDF, Flash, etc.
Since most software publishers don't seem interested in really supporting Linux other than tossing out a tar.gz and requiring linux users to fend for themselves, how about us Linux users creating a common web add-on installation site that has the latest binaries for almost any add-on plus an automated installation. That way, the software publishers can redirect Linux users to that site for the installation?
Windows:
Ability to install any software without having to reboot.
Simpler installation for browser addons such as PDF, Flash, etc.
Since most software publishers don't seem interested in really supporting Linux other than tossing out a tar.gz and requiring linux users to fend for themselves, how about us Linux users creating a common web add-on installation site that has the latest binaries for almost any add-on plus an automated installation. That way, the software publishers can redirect Linux users to that site for the installation?
Windows:
Ability to install any software without having to reboot.
how hard is:
emerge netscape-flash mplayerplug-in acroread
also, once you do that, the plugins should work in any browser. instead of, in windows, having to reinstall all plugins for each browser installed.
emerge netscape-flash mplayerplug-in acroread
also, once you do that, the plugins should work in any browser. instead of, in windows, having to reinstall all plugins for each browser installed.
The COA only edition of windows XP home that can be installed sells for 50 dollars?
That's very little and about the price of a cheap video card. Let's face it.
For that you get a truely great OS. Best of thge breed. When Linux is that good for free then I'll switch.
That's very little and about the price of a cheap video card. Let's face it.
For that you get a truely great OS. Best of thge breed. When Linux is that good for free then I'll switch.
You're missing one key point....with Linux, there are NO STRINGS ATTACHED. All you have to do is abide by the GPL (or one of several variants), which is a complete antithesis to Microsoft's EULA. There is no DRM. There is no never-ending forced upgrade cycle, for which you have to part with even more of your money. There are no closed or proprietary document formats, and almost ANYTHING on Linux can be made to interoperate with almost ANYTHING ELSE on Linux, because everything is OPEN. When Microsoft gets this good for $50, I might consider it.
Well, for those same $50 you get a GNU/Linux distribution, which is a great OS. Best of breed in the *Nix category.
But you don't get a good OS alone, you get it with multiple Desktop Environments, several Office Suites, Games, Internet client software, science tools, a myriad of server packages, burning tools, graphics software, and what not.
To get only an OS for $ 50 seems a little paltry.
xp is crap, go switch.
Sold with just a COA? Sounds like a license violation... unless you're an OEM/have some special agreement with Microsoft.
In any case, as you said XP HOME. Which is a crippled version of windows.
I.e. Can't use a Linux samba server and have your systems join a Windows domain
Can't set specific file permissions and user groups.
Don't get "file encryption" options, etc...
Xp Home is not good enough for serious computer users..
Linux does much more for ≤ 1/1000 the price
So, how long have you worked for Microsoft? Oh, I'm sorry, were we supposed to mistake your comments for the honest opinion of an every day computer user?
When Linux gets as bad as Windows XP Home, I'll quit using it!
OK, you now have just one machine running a cut-down Windows - Now upgrade your whole house !. Two kids PCs, a wife laptop, one firewall, a file/print server and my own PC. COA may be cheap but upgrades are hellishly expensive.
Also new WinXP upgrades require validation. Nope - whats happening is older machines end up dual-booting into Mandrake and Windows. Data and fuctionality is being migrated and slowly we'll end up with a single legacy Win98/WinXP boot.
Also new WinXP upgrades require validation. Nope - whats happening is older machines end up dual-booting into Mandrake and Windows. Data and fuctionality is being migrated and slowly we'll end up with a single legacy Win98/WinXP boot.
BillG is a compulsive control freak nearing fascism.
Why would we give him any advice? they know all the answers anyway, they are not kindergarten kids, they are ruthless business freaks.
Why would we give him any advice? they know all the answers anyway, they are not kindergarten kids, they are ruthless business freaks.
First off, I only turn javascript/cookies on for *trusted* sites... Sorry, but the poll site does not qualify. As such I have no idea what all the questions were so I have to guess from some of the other posts. But in the interest of the community I have the following things to say:
*) Why I use Linux
-- open source allows me to bug hunt and a chance for maintaining *old* software. It also give me the ability to add features into existing projects.
-- more secure. I have yet to be infected with a virus or trogan.
--licensing. The last thing I need in the production shop is to have one of the employees or family install something and get suied becaue we are running unlicensed software. No amount of threts of firing or screaming at family will *guarntee* that it will not happen no matter what. On Linux we can install and run just about anything without worry. I also work for a non-profit which has referbished old business computers for charity. MS sued a company for distributing donated computers because they did not have the licenses. I have advised the board of directors of the NPO to either discontinue this charity work, only give away machines that have all hard copies of licenses, or simply distribure Linux.
-- autoupdating. No this one really chaps my a**. I often have to have installed several versions of compilers and software to test against speciffic configurations. I had a situation on an XP machine where the compler was *updated* without my knowledge. The update broke the compilation cycle. An end user came in with a bug that had a 3 day turnaround on a mission critical project. In order to get it to work at all I had to uninstall the compiler, remove the computer from the net, reinstall the compiler from scratch, and fix the bug. That was the last time I did anything on XP. Even without the development tools issue, I like to set up a stable platform and upgrade when I have plenty of time to test. Having MS force me to update on their schedule is completely unacceptable.
*) How long have I used Linux -- Let me see that would have been Nov./Dec. 1995 as I recall. I had specialty CGI interfaces distributed on RedHat starting April 1996. I started using Unix back in the BSD days (circa 1979). Currently I use Gentoo, but have used RedHad, Debian, Slackware, and SuSe.
*) Primary uses -- software development, job shop automation, research, personal use.
*) Machine(s) -- I have something like a half dozen. High end is a dual-PIII, dual head 24" monitors, 160GB disk, and 1GB ram. Low end 486 running specialty software/applications.
*) Integrity -- I am not sure how many people realize that Bill Gates single handidly hamstrung the moral and ethical code of an entire profession. Before MS, programmers typically took more time to vet the code and remove as many bugs as reasonably possible. MS demonstrated that overselling their products and throwing things out the door with little concern for how bad their initial offerings were -- to get an intial marker share. Appearently good marketing and bad professional ethics. So there is a lack of trust -- give us an honest discription of what your products do. MS I cannot trust you at your word, and cannot make informed business decisions based thereapon...
So in short, I use Linux because I can trust it.
*) Why I use Linux
-- open source allows me to bug hunt and a chance for maintaining *old* software. It also give me the ability to add features into existing projects.
-- more secure. I have yet to be infected with a virus or trogan.
--licensing. The last thing I need in the production shop is to have one of the employees or family install something and get suied becaue we are running unlicensed software. No amount of threts of firing or screaming at family will *guarntee* that it will not happen no matter what. On Linux we can install and run just about anything without worry. I also work for a non-profit which has referbished old business computers for charity. MS sued a company for distributing donated computers because they did not have the licenses. I have advised the board of directors of the NPO to either discontinue this charity work, only give away machines that have all hard copies of licenses, or simply distribure Linux.
-- autoupdating. No this one really chaps my a**. I often have to have installed several versions of compilers and software to test against speciffic configurations. I had a situation on an XP machine where the compler was *updated* without my knowledge. The update broke the compilation cycle. An end user came in with a bug that had a 3 day turnaround on a mission critical project. In order to get it to work at all I had to uninstall the compiler, remove the computer from the net, reinstall the compiler from scratch, and fix the bug. That was the last time I did anything on XP. Even without the development tools issue, I like to set up a stable platform and upgrade when I have plenty of time to test. Having MS force me to update on their schedule is completely unacceptable.
*) How long have I used Linux -- Let me see that would have been Nov./Dec. 1995 as I recall. I had specialty CGI interfaces distributed on RedHat starting April 1996. I started using Unix back in the BSD days (circa 1979). Currently I use Gentoo, but have used RedHad, Debian, Slackware, and SuSe.
*) Primary uses -- software development, job shop automation, research, personal use.
*) Machine(s) -- I have something like a half dozen. High end is a dual-PIII, dual head 24" monitors, 160GB disk, and 1GB ram. Low end 486 running specialty software/applications.
*) Integrity -- I am not sure how many people realize that Bill Gates single handidly hamstrung the moral and ethical code of an entire profession. Before MS, programmers typically took more time to vet the code and remove as many bugs as reasonably possible. MS demonstrated that overselling their products and throwing things out the door with little concern for how bad their initial offerings were -- to get an intial marker share. Appearently good marketing and bad professional ethics. So there is a lack of trust -- give us an honest discription of what your products do. MS I cannot trust you at your word, and cannot make informed business decisions based thereapon...
So in short, I use Linux because I can trust it.
What best describes your Linux knowledge level?
Advanced
How long have you used Linux?
more than 2 years
Do people ask you for Linux advice?
Yes
What best describes the kind of Linux user you are?
Developer
Please describe your primary home Linux machine.
monitor type
17" LCD
memory (RAM)
385 to 512 MB
processor type
AMD
processor speed
1.1 Ghz to
number of processors
1
hard drive space
20.1GB to 40GB
length of your ownership
2.1 to 3 years
What OS came with your primary Linux system when you got it?
No OS loaded
What kind of network connectivity do you use for your home Linux machine?
connecting to internet
ADSL or DSL broadband
connecting to home network
11Mbps WiFi (802.11b)
What is the primary Linux distribution you use?
at home
Other
at work
Red Hat
What region are you from?
USA/Canada
Who would you recommend use Linux at home?
Everyone
Rank the reasons you like Linux for the home.
0 (not important) - 4 (very important)
Its cheaper
2
There is more free add-on software
2
Better gaming experience
0
Ability to run on old hardware
1
More secure than Windows
4
I want to get more Linux experience to help my career
1
No need to constantly keep installing updates and fixes
1
Integration with consumer electronics devices
0
Better performance than Windows
2
Easier to use than Windows
4
Easier to install than Windows
1
Better install and uninstall of additional software
4
No enforced license registration
2
Better scripting
3
Better command line
3
Better device and peripheral support
1
Access to source code
1
Easier to customize exactly how I want it
2
More intuitive, simpler to understand
3
Linux community support
2
Better reliability
4
The satisfaction of not giving Microsoft more money.
1
I don't trust Microsoft
1
I don't want to use proprietary software
4
I don't want to use commercial software
2
Rank the importance of various tasks you use your home Linux system for.
0 (not important) - 4 (very important), 5 (N/A)
Playing games
0
Hosting games
0
Internet gateway
5
Firewall
5
A home file server
1
A home web server
0
Word processing
2
Spreadsheets
0
Databases
0
E-mail
4
Web browsing
4
Home finances
3
Programming
3
Desk Top Publishing
1
Photo Editing
3
Video Editing
2
Recording live TV/ Video
5
Other
4
What other operating system do you use at home?
Other (please specify)
Everyone, including young children, use Linux
Do you dual boot between different operating systems on your primary home Linux PC?
No
List the top one or two possible improvements that you would like to see made to Windows.
The Windows method of installing software (setup.exe) is lame. There is little or no information regarding what will be installed or what changes will be made to the system. Binary software installations should be distributed as single file data packages. There should exist within the OS a software install system that allows querying the software package for precise contents and changes to be made. A database should be kept detailing who (software package) installed what (files on HD) when. Said database should be queryable by users for information regarding software installed or who installed a given file. In short, the OS should handle installation and uninstallation of software and keep track of what is currently installed on the system. Software should generally *not* install itself or be trusted to do so. Linux uses software install systems like RPM and DEB to fill this role.
List the top one or two improvements that you would like to see made to Linux.
A better system wide clipboard.
Advanced
How long have you used Linux?
more than 2 years
Do people ask you for Linux advice?
Yes
What best describes the kind of Linux user you are?
Developer
Please describe your primary home Linux machine.
monitor type
17" LCD
memory (RAM)
385 to 512 MB
processor type
AMD
processor speed
1.1 Ghz to
number of processors
1
hard drive space
20.1GB to 40GB
length of your ownership
2.1 to 3 years
What OS came with your primary Linux system when you got it?
No OS loaded
What kind of network connectivity do you use for your home Linux machine?
connecting to internet
ADSL or DSL broadband
connecting to home network
11Mbps WiFi (802.11b)
What is the primary Linux distribution you use?
at home
Other
at work
Red Hat
What region are you from?
USA/Canada
Who would you recommend use Linux at home?
Everyone
Rank the reasons you like Linux for the home.
0 (not important) - 4 (very important)
Its cheaper
2
There is more free add-on software
2
Better gaming experience
0
Ability to run on old hardware
1
More secure than Windows
4
I want to get more Linux experience to help my career
1
No need to constantly keep installing updates and fixes
1
Integration with consumer electronics devices
0
Better performance than Windows
2
Easier to use than Windows
4
Easier to install than Windows
1
Better install and uninstall of additional software
4
No enforced license registration
2
Better scripting
3
Better command line
3
Better device and peripheral support
1
Access to source code
1
Easier to customize exactly how I want it
2
More intuitive, simpler to understand
3
Linux community support
2
Better reliability
4
The satisfaction of not giving Microsoft more money.
1
I don't trust Microsoft
1
I don't want to use proprietary software
4
I don't want to use commercial software
2
Rank the importance of various tasks you use your home Linux system for.
0 (not important) - 4 (very important), 5 (N/A)
Playing games
0
Hosting games
0
Internet gateway
5
Firewall
5
A home file server
1
A home web server
0
Word processing
2
Spreadsheets
0
Databases
0
4
Web browsing
4
Home finances
3
Programming
3
Desk Top Publishing
1
Photo Editing
3
Video Editing
2
Recording live TV/ Video
5
Other
4
What other operating system do you use at home?
Other (please specify)
Everyone, including young children, use Linux
Do you dual boot between different operating systems on your primary home Linux PC?
No
List the top one or two possible improvements that you would like to see made to Windows.
The Windows method of installing software (setup.exe) is lame. There is little or no information regarding what will be installed or what changes will be made to the system. Binary software installations should be distributed as single file data packages. There should exist within the OS a software install system that allows querying the software package for precise contents and changes to be made. A database should be kept detailing who (software package) installed what (files on HD) when. Said database should be queryable by users for information regarding software installed or who installed a given file. In short, the OS should handle installation and uninstallation of software and keep track of what is currently installed on the system. Software should generally *not* install itself or be trusted to do so. Linux uses software install systems like RPM and DEB to fill this role.
List the top one or two improvements that you would like to see made to Linux.
A better system wide clipboard.
I live in Australia, and our region is not listed on the survey so we can't fill it in. Thankyou Microsoft, for estranging an entire country!
Hells Bells! Not only did they miss Australia as a country, they even managed to forget an entire *continent*!!! Last time I checked, you aussies down under live on a pretty fscking big piece of the planet!<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;)
Pick Asia or something and tell 'em where David bought the beer!
Situation Normal All Fscked Up...
Pick Asia or something and tell 'em where David bought the beer!
Situation Normal All Fscked Up...
You didnt know we are now part of Asia??<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)
- Advanced Linux Developer using Linux for 2+ years
- Redhat at home, Slackware at work
- I recommend Linux to Intermediate users, Power users, and Expert users
- The most important reasons for using Linux are:
- more secure
- no need to constantly install patches
- better performance than Windows
- better scripting
- better command line
- access to source code
- ability to customize
- better reliability
- the satisfaction of not giving Microsoft more money (yeah!)
- I don't trust Microsoft (yeah!)
- The most important tasks I use Linux for:
- web server
- word processing
- e-mail
- web browsing
- programming
- photo editing
- top 2 improvements for Windows:
- less bloat
- cheaper
- top 1 improvement for Linux:
- more standardization
That improvement for Linux isn't for my benefit. I personally find Linux most satisfying. But if Linux is to ever beat down Microsoft, we need standardization. I believe that many people are turned away from Linux because of all the options.
- Redhat at home, Slackware at work
- I recommend Linux to Intermediate users, Power users, and Expert users
- The most important reasons for using Linux are:
- more secure
- no need to constantly install patches
- better performance than Windows
- better scripting
- better command line
- access to source code
- ability to customize
- better reliability
- the satisfaction of not giving Microsoft more money (yeah!)
- I don't trust Microsoft (yeah!)
- The most important tasks I use Linux for:
- web server
- word processing
- web browsing
- programming
- photo editing
- top 2 improvements for Windows:
- less bloat
- cheaper
- top 1 improvement for Linux:
- more standardization
That improvement for Linux isn't for my benefit. I personally find Linux most satisfying. But if Linux is to ever beat down Microsoft, we need standardization. I believe that many people are turned away from Linux because of all the options.
Port Flash creation software to Linux
I will not respond to their poll. Microsoft already "takes" more information without our permission than most people would want, if the true extent was known. If Newsforge is interested in our answers to this poll, perhaps they should fashion a similar one, and host it here. Microsoft could still get the results, but at least it wouldn't be automated for them. And, Roblimo could cull the obvious (Microsoft) self serving questions, like what operating system came with your computer, the results of which may help them in making a case of piracy of their OS, furthering their push for trusted computing. And others.
My most compeling reasons for my move to GNU/Linux was.
First, The legal right to use the software without having to register or activate it, and to have control of my computer without Microsoft's forced entry, upon their whim, as part of their EULA. Then , having an operating system that has a closed source core is impossible to verify as being secure and free of back doors put in their by design to further intrude on our privacy and freedom is no longer acceptable, given that we now have a choice (Linux).
Secondly, The fact that GNU/Linux software is free, allows me to test each application and choose the best in each class, and make sure they play well with the other applications on a given system. Enabling me to offer a complete and ready to use (soup to nuts) computer to those I serve. This is dificult to do with Windows OS, you can do a pretty good job with freeware, but certainly not as well as with Linux.
Third, Is kind of a back-handed compliment. Linux has fewer apps, but they are written to be able to be used on all supported hardware. As an example: Xawtv will work with any supported TV capture card. This is not the case with the Windows versions of the default applications that come with the various TV capture cards. Ati's media software will only work with Ati hardware and so on. Plus, Ati will only let you use Windows Media formats to capture compressed video on the fly (no Divx or Xvid etc...). Making it as important to to check out the software that is shipped with each piece of hardware as it is to check out the hardware itself. Prior to using Linux, I routinely didn't buy certain brands because their interface was crap, and to buy aftermarket software for them was often times more expensive than the hardware itself. Because of this, once you are able to configure Linux apps, you can build an almost exact end user experience, regardless of the (supported) harware used. This is a real bonanza when you consider customer support because every model has the same basic interface.
I don't just slap any old applications on computers that I build for people. I build them with a place for everything and everything in it's place, and an app for everything setup with sensible defaults, to include a complete end user file tree in the default skell. As a result, they enjoy their computers. And when they enjoy them, they tend to branch out and buy more stuff to go with them. This has been my experience.
Conclusion
Microsoft can't compete with a properly setup GNU/Linux system because they have taken the fun out of using a computer with all their piracy paranoia and it's really getting to feel like your borrowing your computer instead of owning it. They should change their motto from "Where do you want to go Today" to "How much bullying,surveilance and forceable acceptance of our agenda can you stand".
Microsoft, You had my business, You blew it! I aint comming back! So E-S-A-Die...
My most compeling reasons for my move to GNU/Linux was.
First, The legal right to use the software without having to register or activate it, and to have control of my computer without Microsoft's forced entry, upon their whim, as part of their EULA. Then , having an operating system that has a closed source core is impossible to verify as being secure and free of back doors put in their by design to further intrude on our privacy and freedom is no longer acceptable, given that we now have a choice (Linux).
Secondly, The fact that GNU/Linux software is free, allows me to test each application and choose the best in each class, and make sure they play well with the other applications on a given system. Enabling me to offer a complete and ready to use (soup to nuts) computer to those I serve. This is dificult to do with Windows OS, you can do a pretty good job with freeware, but certainly not as well as with Linux.
Third, Is kind of a back-handed compliment. Linux has fewer apps, but they are written to be able to be used on all supported hardware. As an example: Xawtv will work with any supported TV capture card. This is not the case with the Windows versions of the default applications that come with the various TV capture cards. Ati's media software will only work with Ati hardware and so on. Plus, Ati will only let you use Windows Media formats to capture compressed video on the fly (no Divx or Xvid etc...). Making it as important to to check out the software that is shipped with each piece of hardware as it is to check out the hardware itself. Prior to using Linux, I routinely didn't buy certain brands because their interface was crap, and to buy aftermarket software for them was often times more expensive than the hardware itself. Because of this, once you are able to configure Linux apps, you can build an almost exact end user experience, regardless of the (supported) harware used. This is a real bonanza when you consider customer support because every model has the same basic interface.
I don't just slap any old applications on computers that I build for people. I build them with a place for everything and everything in it's place, and an app for everything setup with sensible defaults, to include a complete end user file tree in the default skell. As a result, they enjoy their computers. And when they enjoy them, they tend to branch out and buy more stuff to go with them. This has been my experience.
Conclusion
Microsoft can't compete with a properly setup GNU/Linux system because they have taken the fun out of using a computer with all their piracy paranoia and it's really getting to feel like your borrowing your computer instead of owning it. They should change their motto from "Where do you want to go Today" to "How much bullying,surveilance and forceable acceptance of our agenda can you stand".
Microsoft, You had my business, You blew it! I aint comming back! So E-S-A-Die...
1. Advanced
2. More than 2 years
3. Asked for advice? Yes
4. End User
5. 19"+ CRT 513-768mb ram, amd 1.1Ghz to, 1cpu, 300gb, More than 5 years
6. No OS Loaded:
Your survey has a bias to pre-built machines. At the<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/very/ least, purchasing a new hard drive invalidates this presumption. Almost every Linux or gaming machine is self-assembled.
7. Cable Modem, Other ("switch" was not an option)
8. Debian Other
9. USA/Canada
10. Everyone
11.
It is Cheaper: 4
More free add-ons: 4
Better gaming: 4
Old hardware: 4
More secure: 5
career: 4
Updates: 4
Integration: 3
Performance: 5
Ease of use: 5
Ease of Install: 5
Better install/uninstall: 5
No enforced license reg: 5
Better scripting: 4
Better command line: 5
Device and peripheral support: 4
Source: 5
Customize: 5
Intuitive: 5
Community: 5
Reliability: 5
Satisfaction of a good purchase: 3
I don't trust MS: 5
I don't want proprietary: 5
I don't want commercial: 1
12. Rank importance of tasks
Playing games: 4
Hosting games: 5
Gateway: 5
Firewall: 5
Fileserver: 5
Web server: 5 (same thing, right? heh)
Word: 5
Spread: 3
Database: 3
E-mail: 5
Browsing: 5
Finance: 4
Programing: 3
Desktop Pub: 1
Photo ed: 4 (GIMP GIMP GIMP!)
Video Editing: 4
Recording live TV/Video 5
Other: 5 (especially Other!)
13. Other Operating Systems?
Win2k Pro
Apple Macintosh (what? don't want to know if I use OS9?)
14. Dual boot? No.
15. The changes I want are more fundamental than FIXMEs.
I want civil rather than tribal attitudes expressed through the software and protocols. Windows Media Player should not demand to be the sole deliverer of content--instead, it should just be damned good at delivering it. Merit, rather than autocracy.
Or, as a better example, Microsoft should not seek to exclude the possibility of better products (even if by competitors) by proprietary protocol or format which may only be used by Microsoft's software. That is, Microsoft should use or produce open formats and open protocols. This is not about excluding competitors. This is about excluding development of superior software or protocol. This is about forbidding the future of computing. This is about authoritarian dictate vs democratic or meritocratic will.
Let me put it succinctly: Microsoft should dictate the future of computing if it demonstrates superior merit. Microsoft is prone to exclusion by design. This is outright hostile to American principles. It [has] will invoke bitter hatred, fear, and anger, often without understanding the reason.
In short, I want open source principles employed in everything.
This does not mean non-proprietary. I means not being a fucking dick. Your customers are your competition. Ideas are contributed to bolster the commons, so others may build upon them, so that you may build upon theirs. Though proprietary may benefit you personally in the short term, the ubiquitous use of proprietary models (by everyone) prevents any significant progress.
I can draw an analogy between open and closed economies. In the Feudal system, the crops of serfs could only be partitioned and served by the local lord, between lords. Commerce beyond the Barony required authority granted between barons.
Contrast this with a modern free economy, where, on a macroeconomic level, agriculture is a commodity. That is, it is common, of value, tradable, freely obtainable by anyone for compensation. In a very real sense, food is held in common by a civil society, and the producers are paid for its production.
The feudal mode of commercial software is also modeled by the communal farming of the now abolished US Socialist Republic of Russia. All production, tools, and product, is owned by the state. It is used as the state dictates, produced as the state prescribes. Any modification to Moscow's mandates was squashed, preventing improvement on a centrally designed system. They intentionally kept the protocol of economy, money, out of the hands of those communicating it.
16. 1) major projects on freedesktop.org
2) Refinement and general app-level use of the new gconf
3) No change to current Mono and GTK# progress
4) A host of interesting projects that leap out from these bases. e.g., a slick GUI for IPTables configuration written for Mono, that uses gconf to manage remote iptables configuration. As a<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.net app, it'd run on Windows or Linux. The use of gconf for iptables would allow changes to be apparent across all programs accessing that database. Dozens of neat apps are just obvious in this sort of environment (source, free licensing, and open collaboration are an integral part of this env)
2. More than 2 years
3. Asked for advice? Yes
4. End User
5. 19"+ CRT 513-768mb ram, amd 1.1Ghz to, 1cpu, 300gb, More than 5 years
6. No OS Loaded:
Your survey has a bias to pre-built machines. At the<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/very/ least, purchasing a new hard drive invalidates this presumption. Almost every Linux or gaming machine is self-assembled.
7. Cable Modem, Other ("switch" was not an option)
8. Debian Other
9. USA/Canada
10. Everyone
11.
It is Cheaper: 4
More free add-ons: 4
Better gaming: 4
Old hardware: 4
More secure: 5
career: 4
Updates: 4
Integration: 3
Performance: 5
Ease of use: 5
Ease of Install: 5
Better install/uninstall: 5
No enforced license reg: 5
Better scripting: 4
Better command line: 5
Device and peripheral support: 4
Source: 5
Customize: 5
Intuitive: 5
Community: 5
Reliability: 5
Satisfaction of a good purchase: 3
I don't trust MS: 5
I don't want proprietary: 5
I don't want commercial: 1
12. Rank importance of tasks
Playing games: 4
Hosting games: 5
Gateway: 5
Firewall: 5
Fileserver: 5
Web server: 5 (same thing, right? heh)
Word: 5
Spread: 3
Database: 3
E-mail: 5
Browsing: 5
Finance: 4
Programing: 3
Desktop Pub: 1
Photo ed: 4 (GIMP GIMP GIMP!)
Video Editing: 4
Recording live TV/Video 5
Other: 5 (especially Other!)
13. Other Operating Systems?
Win2k Pro
Apple Macintosh (what? don't want to know if I use OS9?)
14. Dual boot? No.
15. The changes I want are more fundamental than FIXMEs.
I want civil rather than tribal attitudes expressed through the software and protocols. Windows Media Player should not demand to be the sole deliverer of content--instead, it should just be damned good at delivering it. Merit, rather than autocracy.
Or, as a better example, Microsoft should not seek to exclude the possibility of better products (even if by competitors) by proprietary protocol or format which may only be used by Microsoft's software. That is, Microsoft should use or produce open formats and open protocols. This is not about excluding competitors. This is about excluding development of superior software or protocol. This is about forbidding the future of computing. This is about authoritarian dictate vs democratic or meritocratic will.
Let me put it succinctly: Microsoft should dictate the future of computing if it demonstrates superior merit. Microsoft is prone to exclusion by design. This is outright hostile to American principles. It [has] will invoke bitter hatred, fear, and anger, often without understanding the reason.
In short, I want open source principles employed in everything.
This does not mean non-proprietary. I means not being a fucking dick. Your customers are your competition. Ideas are contributed to bolster the commons, so others may build upon them, so that you may build upon theirs. Though proprietary may benefit you personally in the short term, the ubiquitous use of proprietary models (by everyone) prevents any significant progress.
I can draw an analogy between open and closed economies. In the Feudal system, the crops of serfs could only be partitioned and served by the local lord, between lords. Commerce beyond the Barony required authority granted between barons.
Contrast this with a modern free economy, where, on a macroeconomic level, agriculture is a commodity. That is, it is common, of value, tradable, freely obtainable by anyone for compensation. In a very real sense, food is held in common by a civil society, and the producers are paid for its production.
The feudal mode of commercial software is also modeled by the communal farming of the now abolished US Socialist Republic of Russia. All production, tools, and product, is owned by the state. It is used as the state dictates, produced as the state prescribes. Any modification to Moscow's mandates was squashed, preventing improvement on a centrally designed system. They intentionally kept the protocol of economy, money, out of the hands of those communicating it.
16. 1) major projects on freedesktop.org
2) Refinement and general app-level use of the new gconf
3) No change to current Mono and GTK# progress
4) A host of interesting projects that leap out from these bases. e.g., a slick GUI for IPTables configuration written for Mono, that uses gconf to manage remote iptables configuration. As a<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.net app, it'd run on Windows or Linux. The use of gconf for iptables would allow changes to be apparent across all programs accessing that database. Dozens of neat apps are just obvious in this sort of environment (source, free licensing, and open collaboration are an integral part of this env)
1. Linux knowledge level: Intermediate
2. How long have I used Linux: more than 2 years
3. Do people ask you for Linux advice: yes
4. Type of user: hobbyist
5. Primary machine description: monitor: 17" CRT, RAM: 129 to 256 MB, processor type: AMD, processor speed: 501 MHz to 1 GHz, # of CPUs: 1, hard drive space: 20.1 to 40 GB, length of ownership: 3.1 to 4 years.
6. What OS came with your primary Linux system when you got it? No OS loaded.
7. Internet connection: dial-up; network connection: ethernet hub
8. Primary distribution: Red Hat
9. Region: USA/Canada
10. Who would you recommend use Linux at home? Everyone.
11. Rank the reasons you like Linux for the home. (1=not important, 5=very important)
Its cheaper: 3
There is more free add-on software: 4
Better gaming experience: 3
Ability to run on old hardware: 4
More secure than Windows: 5
I want to get more Linux experience to help my career: 5
No need to constantly keep installing updates and fixes: 1
Integration with consumer electronics devices: 1
Better performance than Windows: 5
Easier to use than Windows: 3
Easier to install than Windows: 3
Better install and uninstall of additional software: 4
No enforced license registration: 4
Better scripting: 4
Better command line: 4
Better device and peripheral support: 3
Access to source code: 2
Easier to customize exactly how I want it: 5
More intuitive, simpler to understand: 4
Linux community support: 5
Better reliability: 5
The satisfaction of not giving Microsoft more money: 5
I don't trust Microsoft: 5
I don't want to use proprietary software: 2
I don't want to use commercial software: 2
12. Rank the importance of various tasks you use your home Linux system for. (1=not important, 5=very important)
Playing games: 4
Hosting games: N/A
Internet gateway: N/A
Firewall: 5
A home file server: N/A
A home web server: N/A
Word processing: 5
Spreadsheets: 5
Databases: 3
E-mail: 5
Web browsing: 5
Home finances: N/A
Programming: 4
Desk Top Publishing: 2
Photo Editing: 4
Video Editing: N/A
Recording live TV/ Video: N/A
Other: N/A
13. What other operating system do you use at home? None.
14. Do you dual boot between different operating systems on your primary home Linux PC? No.
15. List the top one or two possible improvements that you would like to see made to Windows.
1) Scrap the whole thing and rewrite it as an
interface on top of Linux, even if you make it
proprietary, like Apple did.
2) Stop trying to be the single distributor of
software for the entire world. Be happy with
your Windows and Office successes, and let other
people make other software.
16. List the top one or two improvements that you would like to see made to Linux.
Internet Explorer and Microsoft Office for
Linux.
2. How long have I used Linux: more than 2 years
3. Do people ask you for Linux advice: yes
4. Type of user: hobbyist
5. Primary machine description: monitor: 17" CRT, RAM: 129 to 256 MB, processor type: AMD, processor speed: 501 MHz to 1 GHz, # of CPUs: 1, hard drive space: 20.1 to 40 GB, length of ownership: 3.1 to 4 years.
6. What OS came with your primary Linux system when you got it? No OS loaded.
7. Internet connection: dial-up; network connection: ethernet hub
8. Primary distribution: Red Hat
9. Region: USA/Canada
10. Who would you recommend use Linux at home? Everyone.
11. Rank the reasons you like Linux for the home. (1=not important, 5=very important)
Its cheaper: 3
There is more free add-on software: 4
Better gaming experience: 3
Ability to run on old hardware: 4
More secure than Windows: 5
I want to get more Linux experience to help my career: 5
No need to constantly keep installing updates and fixes: 1
Integration with consumer electronics devices: 1
Better performance than Windows: 5
Easier to use than Windows: 3
Easier to install than Windows: 3
Better install and uninstall of additional software: 4
No enforced license registration: 4
Better scripting: 4
Better command line: 4
Better device and peripheral support: 3
Access to source code: 2
Easier to customize exactly how I want it: 5
More intuitive, simpler to understand: 4
Linux community support: 5
Better reliability: 5
The satisfaction of not giving Microsoft more money: 5
I don't trust Microsoft: 5
I don't want to use proprietary software: 2
I don't want to use commercial software: 2
12. Rank the importance of various tasks you use your home Linux system for. (1=not important, 5=very important)
Playing games: 4
Hosting games: N/A
Internet gateway: N/A
Firewall: 5
A home file server: N/A
A home web server: N/A
Word processing: 5
Spreadsheets: 5
Databases: 3
E-mail: 5
Web browsing: 5
Home finances: N/A
Programming: 4
Desk Top Publishing: 2
Photo Editing: 4
Video Editing: N/A
Recording live TV/ Video: N/A
Other: N/A
13. What other operating system do you use at home? None.
14. Do you dual boot between different operating systems on your primary home Linux PC? No.
15. List the top one or two possible improvements that you would like to see made to Windows.
1) Scrap the whole thing and rewrite it as an
interface on top of Linux, even if you make it
proprietary, like Apple did.
2) Stop trying to be the single distributor of
software for the entire world. Be happy with
your Windows and Office successes, and let other
people make other software.
16. List the top one or two improvements that you would like to see made to Linux.
Internet Explorer and Microsoft Office for
Linux.
is this true, or just a hoax...
i mean, a hotmail adress? the survey is not on a microsoft site?
and the questions look like they are made up by an open source advocate
i'm not sure what to think of this
anyway they should just open up their source code and start a collaborative open-source community. but hey, hell will never freeze over and them opening the source code to windows is about as likely<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)
they could start by just getting rid of this ridiculous trusted computing environment. my god, what a bad idea. 1984 all over the place.
just my 2 (euro)c
anonymous lazy bastard (too lazy to get an account<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;) )
i mean, a hotmail adress? the survey is not on a microsoft site?
and the questions look like they are made up by an open source advocate
i'm not sure what to think of this
anyway they should just open up their source code and start a collaborative open-source community. but hey, hell will never freeze over and them opening the source code to windows is about as likely<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)
they could start by just getting rid of this ridiculous trusted computing environment. my god, what a bad idea. 1984 all over the place.
just my 2 (euro)c
anonymous lazy bastard (too lazy to get an account<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;) )
I'm surprised no-one else is questioning this. Guaranteed this is a hoax. Do people think MS would ask Linux users in such a public way even if they were interested?
The traceroute I did to 64.73.28.28 says differently...it defenitely is a msn-gateway anyhow. No bullet-proof or anything, but a hint.
I answered the multiple-choice questions as most people probably did. Stuff I entered in the short answer boxes:
"What organizations would you reccomend Linux to: Other"
-> Orgs that wish to have the ability to fix problems without relying on a slow/expensive vendor.
"What improvements would you like to see made to Windows"
-> Open the source code.
-> Improve security.
-> Lower the price
"What improvements would you like to see made to Linux"
-> Not sure.
"What organizations would you reccomend Linux to: Other"
-> Orgs that wish to have the ability to fix problems without relying on a slow/expensive vendor.
"What improvements would you like to see made to Windows"
-> Open the source code.
-> Improve security.
-> Lower the price
"What improvements would you like to see made to Linux"
-> Not sure.
SuSE 9.0 - £30 or something
countless RPMs and<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.tar.gzs - £0
online updates which I can choose - £0
using an ethical operating system - priceless
There are some things that Microsoft can buy. For everything else, there's GNU/Linux.
countless RPMs and<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.tar.gzs - £0
online updates which I can choose - £0
using an ethical operating system - priceless
There are some things that Microsoft can buy. For everything else, there's GNU/Linux.
1. What best describes your Linux knowledge level? Expert
2. How long have you used Linux? More than 2 years
3. Do people ask you for Linux advice? Yes
4. What best describes the kind of Linux user you are? Developer
5. Please describe your primary home Linux machine.
15" LCD
513MB to 768MB
AMD
1.1GHz to 2GHz
1 CPU
200.1GB to 300GB
2.1 to 3 years
6. What OS came with your primary Linux system when you got it? No OS Loaded
7. What kind of network connectivity do you use for your home Linux machine? Internet: Dial-up, Home Network: Ethernet
8. What is the primary Linux distribution you use? Home: Redhat, Work: Redhat
9. What region are you from?Europe
10. Who would you recommend use Linux at home? Everyone
11. Rank the reasons you like Linux for the home. (0-4)
It's cheaper 1
There is more free add-on software 3
Better gaming experience 1
Ability to run on old hardware 3
More secure than Windows 4
I want to get more Linux experience to help my career 3
No need to constantly keep installing updates and fixes 4
Integration with consumer electronics devices 3
Better performance than Windows 3
Easier to use than Windows 4
Easier to install than Windows 1
Better install and uninstall of additional software 3
No enforced license registration 3
Better scripting 3
Better command line 4
Better device and peripheral support 2
Access to source code 3
Easier to customize exactly how I want it 4
More intuitive, simpler to understand 4
Linux community support 3
Better reliability 3
The satisfaction of not giving Microsoft more money 3
I don't trust Microsoft 3
I don't want to use proprietary software 0
I don't want to use commercial software 0
12. Rank the importance of various tasks you use your home Linux system for. (0-4)
Playing games 2
Hosting games 0
Internet Gateway 4
Firewall 4
A home file server 4
A home web server 4
Word Processing 3
Spreadsheets 1
Databases 4
E-mail 4
Web browsing 4
Home finances 1
Programming 4
Desk Top Publishing 0
Photo Editing 3
Video Editing 0
Recording TV/Video 0
13. What other operating system do you use at home? Other: Solaris 8
14. Do you dual boot between different operating systems on your primary home Linux PC? No
15. List the top one or two possible improvements that you would like to see made to Windows: UI needs to be more intuitive and customizeable, needs to allow remote file browsing via SSH like KDE does.
16. List the top one or two improvements that you would like to see made to Linux: More software for syncing my Nokia phone with my address book
Sandy Dunlop - http://sorn.net/sandy/
2. How long have you used Linux? More than 2 years
3. Do people ask you for Linux advice? Yes
4. What best describes the kind of Linux user you are? Developer
5. Please describe your primary home Linux machine.
15" LCD
513MB to 768MB
AMD
1.1GHz to 2GHz
1 CPU
200.1GB to 300GB
2.1 to 3 years
6. What OS came with your primary Linux system when you got it? No OS Loaded
7. What kind of network connectivity do you use for your home Linux machine? Internet: Dial-up, Home Network: Ethernet
8. What is the primary Linux distribution you use? Home: Redhat, Work: Redhat
9. What region are you from?Europe
10. Who would you recommend use Linux at home? Everyone
11. Rank the reasons you like Linux for the home. (0-4)
It's cheaper 1
There is more free add-on software 3
Better gaming experience 1
Ability to run on old hardware 3
More secure than Windows 4
I want to get more Linux experience to help my career 3
No need to constantly keep installing updates and fixes 4
Integration with consumer electronics devices 3
Better performance than Windows 3
Easier to use than Windows 4
Easier to install than Windows 1
Better install and uninstall of additional software 3
No enforced license registration 3
Better scripting 3
Better command line 4
Better device and peripheral support 2
Access to source code 3
Easier to customize exactly how I want it 4
More intuitive, simpler to understand 4
Linux community support 3
Better reliability 3
The satisfaction of not giving Microsoft more money 3
I don't trust Microsoft 3
I don't want to use proprietary software 0
I don't want to use commercial software 0
12. Rank the importance of various tasks you use your home Linux system for. (0-4)
Playing games 2
Hosting games 0
Internet Gateway 4
Firewall 4
A home file server 4
A home web server 4
Word Processing 3
Spreadsheets 1
Databases 4
E-mail 4
Web browsing 4
Home finances 1
Programming 4
Desk Top Publishing 0
Photo Editing 3
Video Editing 0
Recording TV/Video 0
13. What other operating system do you use at home? Other: Solaris 8
14. Do you dual boot between different operating systems on your primary home Linux PC? No
15. List the top one or two possible improvements that you would like to see made to Windows: UI needs to be more intuitive and customizeable, needs to allow remote file browsing via SSH like KDE does.
16. List the top one or two improvements that you would like to see made to Linux: More software for syncing my Nokia phone with my address book
Sandy Dunlop - http://sorn.net/sandy/
They can purchase my Answers 2004 for $199, or the Enterprise version of my answers for $699 per seat. Of course, Answers 2004 will be made obsolete by the modifications to my answers which I will offer in 2Q 2004 in Answers Service Pack F-M$oft.
Oh, but so sorry, they won't be able to unpack any of my answers, 2003 or 2004, because I recently deployed Trusted Computing the I-Am-A-Ridulously-Fucked-Company edition, and for some reason my trusted answer architecture doesn't trust M-$soft.
Oh, but so sorry, they won't be able to unpack any of my answers, 2003 or 2004, because I recently deployed Trusted Computing the I-Am-A-Ridulously-Fucked-Company edition, and for some reason my trusted answer architecture doesn't trust M-$soft.
Buy the Answers 2003 reader, just $299.00 more
Posted by: Anonymous Coward on December 22, 2003 08:15 AM
You forgot to add to this the fact that your answers are in you proprietary format that requires they also purchase your reader for $299.00
This would have been funny and the product of a quick whit, even if you left out the F word.
This would have been funny and the product of a quick whit, even if you left out the F word.
I can't even view the survey page with Opera7 for Linux! (Cookies are enabled, even set to spoof ie6)
Someone please send my disregards to M$.
Someone please send my disregards to M$.
Similar. In Lynx with cookies disabled, I exceeded the maximum number of 10 redirections. So I launched a new instance of Lynx and accepted all cookies, only to find out that they're apparently not interested
in Lynx users at all, since I couldn't even agree to bow to the devil's legal agreement if I wanted to. (Hey, if real life were like this, we'd all get to heaven).
As far as the marketing, politics, and clever jokes posted here, ditto.
in Lynx users at all, since I couldn't even agree to bow to the devil's legal agreement if I wanted to. (Hey, if real life were like this, we'd all get to heaven).
As far as the marketing, politics, and clever jokes posted here, ditto.
We all know what's wrong with Microsoft. my answers for Linux:
KDE is slow and task bar looks terrible. Gnome is weak on the details and also looks ugly. Desktop Linux is really terrible compared to Windows. It's much better than before but it needs a lot of work. Maybe Sun's LookingGlass will take off and for-shame Microsoft.
The other big problem is that linux users continue to program in old-school languages like C/C++. A fraction of the time spent to make a fast, memory-sharing JVM would make Linux a dream to program on. Yes I've programmed a lot in all three (Java, C, C++) and it just takes so much extra effort in C/C++. Microsoft is going to C#/.NET and it'll soon be easier to code for Windows. You laugh, but Java/C#/.Net is way better than C/C++ for most things.
I was glad to see gentoo on the list. I tried Red Hat and Fedora but the lack of decent RPMs and multimedia support was frustrating. It took forever to install gentoo and get everything configured, but now that I've got it working I love it. It's sweet. Gentoo with a nice installer that uses precompiled packages would seriously rock!
emerge -u sig
KDE is slow and task bar looks terrible. Gnome is weak on the details and also looks ugly. Desktop Linux is really terrible compared to Windows. It's much better than before but it needs a lot of work. Maybe Sun's LookingGlass will take off and for-shame Microsoft.
The other big problem is that linux users continue to program in old-school languages like C/C++. A fraction of the time spent to make a fast, memory-sharing JVM would make Linux a dream to program on. Yes I've programmed a lot in all three (Java, C, C++) and it just takes so much extra effort in C/C++. Microsoft is going to C#/.NET and it'll soon be easier to code for Windows. You laugh, but Java/C#/.Net is way better than C/C++ for most things.
I was glad to see gentoo on the list. I tried Red Hat and Fedora but the lack of decent RPMs and multimedia support was frustrating. It took forever to install gentoo and get everything configured, but now that I've got it working I love it. It's sweet. Gentoo with a nice installer that uses precompiled packages would seriously rock!
emerge -u sig
Do not agree with stated: KDE is a bit slower on my machine than windows WAS ( I don't use it for a long period now), and it is better-looking than winshit, because it's very themeable - just go to kde-look.org, find a few good themes and excellent icon packs, and just enjoy the ride.
Kilix?
People still develop in C++/C because the end result is so mush better for end user programs. Java programs have SLOW UIs period.
Oh and if there is a rapid dev path to which FLOSS will go it will be towards scripting languages like Perl and Python which have GUI binding for gtk and qt, not Java and not C#/.NET.
Oh and if there is a rapid dev path to which FLOSS will go it will be towards scripting languages like Perl and Python which have GUI binding for gtk and qt, not Java and not C#/.NET.
Do you think Longhorn is programed in C#. Hahahahahahahahaha.
There is a common misunderstanding concerning programming languages usage: Java/C#, as well as Object Pascal, are end-product-oriented languages, but C/C++ are more suitable for writing system software. I completely agree with the original posting, that there is an essencial lack of application-oriented languages/IDEs under Linux. Python could be a good one, but, imho, it misses some important features of a modern application oriented language as strict type checking.
What is there not to get? For Linux/FreeBSD/whatever on the server makes sense.
You get Apache, the most used web server and best of breed web server.. you get Samba, a file/print server for Windows clients that provides extensive customability & ranks on par with or faster than Microsoft own offersing<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.. you get insanely great email servers (qmail, postfix, exim)<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.. fantastic databases (postgresql, sapdb, mysql)<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.. ldap servers<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.. cups print servers<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.. dns servers<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.. dhcp<nobr> <wbr></nobr>..
not only that<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.. but for most small business (what I deal with) you can simply use a distro like e-smith that comes preconfigured with a drop-dead simple interface for day to day tasks & reports.
I can log into my boxes via SSH and troubleshoot problems very quickly<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.. stability? the only time I reboot is due to a major OS upgrade (once a year at most) or hardware related issues.. patches for services simply require a quick stop/start of that particular service<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.. very nice.
Sure I am preaching to the choir<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.. but quite frankly, why wouldn't I go with Linux? It just makes sense. I have been using it exclusively for my desktop and while it works for me, it is still not quite there for general use<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.. though with the huge focus on the linux desktop, I know it is only a matter of time.
bottom line? I honestly don't know what Microsoft can do<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.. Even if Linux cost the same as the microsoft offering, I believe many of my small business customers would still go with Linux. It has proven to be reliable, secure, dependable and robust to fit their needs.
You get Apache, the most used web server and best of breed web server.. you get Samba, a file/print server for Windows clients that provides extensive customability & ranks on par with or faster than Microsoft own offersing<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.. you get insanely great email servers (qmail, postfix, exim)<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.. fantastic databases (postgresql, sapdb, mysql)<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.. ldap servers<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.. cups print servers<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.. dns servers<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.. dhcp<nobr> <wbr></nobr>..
not only that<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.. but for most small business (what I deal with) you can simply use a distro like e-smith that comes preconfigured with a drop-dead simple interface for day to day tasks & reports.
I can log into my boxes via SSH and troubleshoot problems very quickly<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.. stability? the only time I reboot is due to a major OS upgrade (once a year at most) or hardware related issues.. patches for services simply require a quick stop/start of that particular service<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.. very nice.
Sure I am preaching to the choir<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.. but quite frankly, why wouldn't I go with Linux? It just makes sense. I have been using it exclusively for my desktop and while it works for me, it is still not quite there for general use<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.. though with the huge focus on the linux desktop, I know it is only a matter of time.
bottom line? I honestly don't know what Microsoft can do<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.. Even if Linux cost the same as the microsoft offering, I believe many of my small business customers would still go with Linux. It has proven to be reliable, secure, dependable and robust to fit their needs.
When I tried to access the survey, my computer informed me I had to have cookies turned on, or I couldn't do the survey, I hesitated.
Curiosity won. I did the survey thoughtfully and completely until the end, it asked me for my E-Mail address. I declined.
It asked me to submit the survey, I didn't.
In a way the MS involvement with SCO influenced this. In another MS has lost my trust. I guess the summary comment is that MS and I have a different philosophy on the future of computing, and where I should invest my computing money (& time).
Curiosity won. I did the survey thoughtfully and completely until the end, it asked me for my E-Mail address. I declined.
It asked me to submit the survey, I didn't.
In a way the MS involvement with SCO influenced this. In another MS has lost my trust. I guess the summary comment is that MS and I have a different philosophy on the future of computing, and where I should invest my computing money (& time).
Microsoft Quash Linux Ammo...please donate !??
Posted by: Anonymous Coward on December 22, 2003 08:52 AM
I use them all. I have a home network and every
computer is a dual linux/windows machine. Linux
handles anything and everything that has to do with money, mail, or privacy...or just has to not get itself lost or corrupted.
Linux also is there to rid windows installs of the digital dirt that microsoft running dogs of oligarchist imperialism slyly plant into my computers by taking advantage of my son and grandson and wife. It happily destroys any and all windows obnoxious files like cookies.dat and *.log and *.(history).
If there is any one irritant that bugs computer users, it is the umbiquitious presence of history and log files in their machines; taking up valuable space and providing profiling data for outsiders to hack into and use to take advantage of unwary computer owners. None of we users EVER
asked for all this malware and spyware in their
own systems. Some of it was there from the beginning with the 'run histories' and such. Original excuse was to be a sort speed up mechanism so that applications would launch faster. Things went rapidly downhill from there.
If windows would get ALL the 'history' and ALL
the 'logs' and ALL the spyware out if the systems,
it would shrink by over 400 megabytes per installation! The spyware is the chief reason
windows is so unstable. You cannot leave a windows system on for over 5 days without having
it freeze....except for 'NT'...its better than
ANY of the others at spying and cookie ressurection though. The problems are not confined to the 'operating environment'. Just look at the hidden files sent to Micro$ along
with each and every electronic registration.
And remember the scandal over the microsoft
'office' programs newer than office97. Those
newer office programs all 'phone home' and tell
just what the owners are writing on machines that
they only think they own. Bet Microsoft never
tells its customers that they are not the
'superuser' on their machines....Micro$$ is.
Try using some editors to look into some of
the system files only to be told that you do
not have 'rights' to see files in your own
machine.
Understand why microsoft wants us all to
buy only retail store sold computers. Ever
looked inside them? They are JUNK!! My son
bought a PackHard Bell 'pooter' some years
ago. When he wanted to add to it, he brought
it to me. It had a space for another hard
drive in its postage stamp sized case, and
a place to plug it into its customized sub
micro sized motherboard. It also had a 'V'
shaped piece of sheet metal welded into the
inside of the case where the new add on
hard drive would have to go....but could not
but for the presence of the engineered obstruction.
Windows' has a use and it is games. Microsoft
has seen to this by leveraging its cash capital
position into overt and behind the scenes control of large segments of the gaming industry. Where
outright ownership of large players is but one
leg of its hydra of oligarchy, hidden agreements
must be some of the other ones. Take Electronic
Arts for instance. Now there is a game company
that used to produce JUNK for YEARS from the 1980's up to the present. Any other company that
really had to rely on sales would be as tits up
now as Westwood and 3DFX. They have such a charmed life that the Mafia would be proud!
Now just where did EA get the money to stay alive
where better companies failed. And do not give
me the fat mouthed failed excuse for logic that
they were 'better businessmen'. So was Al
Capone! And HE is my cousin by marriage!? Only
they can put out a piece of digital garbage like
'Renegade' and stay in business. This particular
'game' is now trying to get itself sold for less
than ten bucks a box and not making the trip.
Yeah, I did not bother to get a copy of the
survey, but I have read quality answers from many
other 'pooterists' here that eloquently state my
loyalty to Lunux as well as I could put it. Besides, I havent seen a 'survey' yet that asked
the right questions and/or was not biased in some
way or other.
Now a computer store that went out of business
because microsoft had engineered a bit of commercial law in my state, Michigan, to the effect that no motherboard could be sold without
a microsoft operating 'system' being sold with
it as a companion item----- sold me a large stack
of unsold motherboards. A little old now, but
they will be a dandy project for THIS old fart
to make a nice Beowulf cluster in my office
out by the highway.
I run S.u.S.E. Linux on my systems and have
been a loyal customer of them since edition 6.0.
But other distros are good too! Never could get
Caldera systems to survive a power failure though.
They always needed total re-installs after that.
They were crooks before Paul Allen (microsoft
partner with bill gates) and Ransom Love looted
the company and left its stock in ruins that later
became SCOX....'SCO'.
Poor SCO! The Santa Cruz Operation was a good
product before it fell to the devil.......
computer is a dual linux/windows machine. Linux
handles anything and everything that has to do with money, mail, or privacy...or just has to not get itself lost or corrupted.
Linux also is there to rid windows installs of the digital dirt that microsoft running dogs of oligarchist imperialism slyly plant into my computers by taking advantage of my son and grandson and wife. It happily destroys any and all windows obnoxious files like cookies.dat and *.log and *.(history).
If there is any one irritant that bugs computer users, it is the umbiquitious presence of history and log files in their machines; taking up valuable space and providing profiling data for outsiders to hack into and use to take advantage of unwary computer owners. None of we users EVER
asked for all this malware and spyware in their
own systems. Some of it was there from the beginning with the 'run histories' and such. Original excuse was to be a sort speed up mechanism so that applications would launch faster. Things went rapidly downhill from there.
If windows would get ALL the 'history' and ALL
the 'logs' and ALL the spyware out if the systems,
it would shrink by over 400 megabytes per installation! The spyware is the chief reason
windows is so unstable. You cannot leave a windows system on for over 5 days without having
it freeze....except for 'NT'...its better than
ANY of the others at spying and cookie ressurection though. The problems are not confined to the 'operating environment'. Just look at the hidden files sent to Micro$ along
with each and every electronic registration.
And remember the scandal over the microsoft
'office' programs newer than office97. Those
newer office programs all 'phone home' and tell
just what the owners are writing on machines that
they only think they own. Bet Microsoft never
tells its customers that they are not the
'superuser' on their machines....Micro$$ is.
Try using some editors to look into some of
the system files only to be told that you do
not have 'rights' to see files in your own
machine.
Understand why microsoft wants us all to
buy only retail store sold computers. Ever
looked inside them? They are JUNK!! My son
bought a PackHard Bell 'pooter' some years
ago. When he wanted to add to it, he brought
it to me. It had a space for another hard
drive in its postage stamp sized case, and
a place to plug it into its customized sub
micro sized motherboard. It also had a 'V'
shaped piece of sheet metal welded into the
inside of the case where the new add on
hard drive would have to go....but could not
but for the presence of the engineered obstruction.
Windows' has a use and it is games. Microsoft
has seen to this by leveraging its cash capital
position into overt and behind the scenes control of large segments of the gaming industry. Where
outright ownership of large players is but one
leg of its hydra of oligarchy, hidden agreements
must be some of the other ones. Take Electronic
Arts for instance. Now there is a game company
that used to produce JUNK for YEARS from the 1980's up to the present. Any other company that
really had to rely on sales would be as tits up
now as Westwood and 3DFX. They have such a charmed life that the Mafia would be proud!
Now just where did EA get the money to stay alive
where better companies failed. And do not give
me the fat mouthed failed excuse for logic that
they were 'better businessmen'. So was Al
Capone! And HE is my cousin by marriage!? Only
they can put out a piece of digital garbage like
'Renegade' and stay in business. This particular
'game' is now trying to get itself sold for less
than ten bucks a box and not making the trip.
Yeah, I did not bother to get a copy of the
survey, but I have read quality answers from many
other 'pooterists' here that eloquently state my
loyalty to Lunux as well as I could put it. Besides, I havent seen a 'survey' yet that asked
the right questions and/or was not biased in some
way or other.
Now a computer store that went out of business
because microsoft had engineered a bit of commercial law in my state, Michigan, to the effect that no motherboard could be sold without
a microsoft operating 'system' being sold with
it as a companion item----- sold me a large stack
of unsold motherboards. A little old now, but
they will be a dandy project for THIS old fart
to make a nice Beowulf cluster in my office
out by the highway.
I run S.u.S.E. Linux on my systems and have
been a loyal customer of them since edition 6.0.
But other distros are good too! Never could get
Caldera systems to survive a power failure though.
They always needed total re-installs after that.
They were crooks before Paul Allen (microsoft
partner with bill gates) and Ransom Love looted
the company and left its stock in ruins that later
became SCOX....'SCO'.
Poor SCO! The Santa Cruz Operation was a good
product before it fell to the devil.......
Scenerio: Linux geeks (2 of them) hangin out at some trade show get approached by Joe Microsoft rep.
Joe: Hey, can I get you guys to answer some questions for me?
Linux Geek 1: Sure.
Geek 2: <silence>
Joe: Ok, we're looking to get out processort scaling working better and we figured we'd come to the experts and just get some of your input on this and other things.
Geek 1: <goes into long useful speech>
Geek 2: <remembers M$'s many 'community undertakings' and thinks: just look at the code, it's all there>. Geek 2 remains silent.
Months later M$ implements some version based on non-GPL license that Geek 1 mentioned and then 'fixes' it so it only works on Windoze. M$ claims victory uber alles.
Point is this. You, literally, make a deal with the devil when you talk to these guys. I've seen how the real M$ world works and like the Daryl McBride talking to the Linux protestors outside the company headquarters, it's all for 'we can be nice too' pr machine. Inside both companies they want money and power over *everything* computer/web/Internet/whatever related. You saps that give them info are just giving them ammo to later use against you.
If you don't believe me then just keep going with this crap and wait to see what happens. Sure, M$ is a company who's time has come and gone, but don't make their job any easier by wasting time and resources and answering their stupid ass surveys. Slashdot has BillyG as a Borg for a good reason. Remember that.
Joe: Hey, can I get you guys to answer some questions for me?
Linux Geek 1: Sure.
Geek 2: <silence>
Joe: Ok, we're looking to get out processort scaling working better and we figured we'd come to the experts and just get some of your input on this and other things.
Geek 1: <goes into long useful speech>
Geek 2: <remembers M$'s many 'community undertakings' and thinks: just look at the code, it's all there>. Geek 2 remains silent.
Months later M$ implements some version based on non-GPL license that Geek 1 mentioned and then 'fixes' it so it only works on Windoze. M$ claims victory uber alles.
Point is this. You, literally, make a deal with the devil when you talk to these guys. I've seen how the real M$ world works and like the Daryl McBride talking to the Linux protestors outside the company headquarters, it's all for 'we can be nice too' pr machine. Inside both companies they want money and power over *everything* computer/web/Internet/whatever related. You saps that give them info are just giving them ammo to later use against you.
If you don't believe me then just keep going with this crap and wait to see what happens. Sure, M$ is a company who's time has come and gone, but don't make their job any easier by wasting time and resources and answering their stupid ass surveys. Slashdot has BillyG as a Borg for a good reason. Remember that.
well, that might be a little strong, but I do concur they (MS) does not need 'free' survey information when they've extracted such a large monetary sum (toll) from ALL users and businesses these past 15 to 20 years, either directly or indirectly. Hell, they (MS) HAVE everybody's money already - let them BUY this info from GNU/Linux users if they want it. MS has the money to get this info all on their own - I wouldn't offer 'em a freebie...
Otherwise, why can't they just glean such data from any comp.os.linux.* message board of the past X years, or archived comments on Newsforge ? (not to mention<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/. archives) - that's about as good as (unbiased or otherwise<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;) survey as they're likely to get. Or how about they just read all of Nick Petreley's columns for the last five years - they'd have much of the info they need. I don't get this sudden urge by MS to get all 'warm'n'fuzzy - let's chat, shall we ?' with Linux users now - it does seem odd they would ask for such survey data at this late date (the Linux kernel has been around a dozen years). Seriously, that 'handshake' with the Borg packs one hell of punch !<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)
Otherwise, why can't they just glean such data from any comp.os.linux.* message board of the past X years, or archived comments on Newsforge ? (not to mention<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/. archives) - that's about as good as (unbiased or otherwise<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;) survey as they're likely to get. Or how about they just read all of Nick Petreley's columns for the last five years - they'd have much of the info they need. I don't get this sudden urge by MS to get all 'warm'n'fuzzy - let's chat, shall we ?' with Linux users now - it does seem odd they would ask for such survey data at this late date (the Linux kernel has been around a dozen years). Seriously, that 'handshake' with the Borg packs one hell of punch !<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)
Well, I only answered two questions (I don't trust Microsoft is Very Important, and my long reply to #17, below) so please only shoot me a little bit.
--------
I'm not giving you any of the information above because I don't see why I should. But I will give you my honest opinion about why I use Linux on my servers.
For me, there is only ONE issue: Microsoft lied and introduced falsified evidence (the video tape) in federal court. Nothing else is relevant. You've proven that you have no honor and no respect for the law of the land, and so surely you have no respect for customers, competitors, or anyone else.
A number of companies (e.g. Tyco, some of the mutual fund companies) have broken the law and they have taken responsibility and removed their board of directors and officers and top management in order that the company can continue for the sake of its customers and employees. They have set the needs of their customers and employees ahead of their own egos.
Microsoft has been found guilty of serious antitrust violations and they have paid no meaningful penalties. Nobody at Microsoft has taken responsibility for this and resigned.
The only thing that Microsoft could do that would permit them to start trying to regain my trust would be for the board and officers and upper management to resign for the good of the company, the customers, and the products and technology. A new board and management could step back from past history, behavior, and statements to take a fresh look at the products and the customers and then decide how to proceed. But I don't think the egos involved will ever consider doing that for a picosecond. I think the people running Microsoft are too arrogant and too convinced of their own importance, genius, and indespensibility for them to believe that the company could survive without them, and so they will never do "the right thing" by anyone else.
OK, you can shoot me a little more.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-)
I had to answer the rest of the asterisked questions to submit the form, but I don't know how useful it will be for them to know that I use Linux for everything.
1. Expert
2. more than 2 years
3. Yes
4. End User
5. Monitor: 15" CRT, 129-256MB RAM, AMD Proc, 501Mhz-1Ghz CPU, 1 CPU, 20-40GB HD
Length of ownership 2.1 to 3 years
6. Windows 98/SE
7. Dial-up Modem, Ethernet Hub
8. Mandrake, Red Hat
9. USA/Canada
10. Beginners, Intermediate Users, Power Users, Expert Users, Everyone
11. Reasons: N/5 N=1: Not important, N=5 Very important
Cheaper: 5/5
More free add-on...: 4/5
Better gaming experience: 2/5
Run on old hardware: 3/5
More secure...: 5/5
More Linux experience: 1/5
No need to constantly update: 4/5
Integration...: 4/5
Better performance: 5/5
Easier to use: 3/5
Easier to install: 1/5
Better install/uninstall...: 4/5
No enforced license reg...: 5/5
Better scripting: 4/5
Better command line: 3/5
Better device/peripheral support: 3/5
Access to source code: 5/5
Easier to customize: 5/5
More intuitiev: 3/5
Linux Communtiy support: 5/5
Better reliability: 5/5
Satisfaction in not giving MS...: 2/5
I don't trust MS...: 1/5
Don't want to use proprietary SW: 3/5
Don't want to use commercial SW: 3/5
12. Importance of various tasks..
Playing games: 2/5
Hosting games: 1/5
Internet gateway: 5/5
Firewall: 5/5
Home file server: 3/5
Home web server: 2/5
Word processing: 5/5
Spreadsheets: N/A
Databases: 2/5
E-mail: 5/5
Web browsing: 5/5
Home finances: 2/5
Programming: 5/5
Desk Top Publishing: N/A
Photo Editing: 4/5
Video Editing: 2/5
Recording live TV/Video: N/A
Other: 5/5
13. What other operating system?
Windows 98
14. Do you dual boot? Yes
15. Make it affordable/cheaper, $180+ is way too expensive, but get rid of
special crippled "Home Editions" with security features stripped, and fix or
eliminate the product activation. Add more options to the firewall.. like
blocking incoming/outgoing TCP, UDP, and ICMP by port, destination, source,
flags, etc.
Include developer resources, tools, library headers/API references,
with the OS.
16. Get Out-of-the-box support and automatic recognition for more hardware.
Do NTFS-like ACLs, signed executables, and better interfaces and ways to
control access to data, programs, hardware.
Shorten the waiting time for boot up.
2. more than 2 years
3. Yes
4. End User
5. Monitor: 15" CRT, 129-256MB RAM, AMD Proc, 501Mhz-1Ghz CPU, 1 CPU, 20-40GB HD
Length of ownership 2.1 to 3 years
6. Windows 98/SE
7. Dial-up Modem, Ethernet Hub
8. Mandrake, Red Hat
9. USA/Canada
10. Beginners, Intermediate Users, Power Users, Expert Users, Everyone
11. Reasons: N/5 N=1: Not important, N=5 Very important
Cheaper: 5/5
More free add-on...: 4/5
Better gaming experience: 2/5
Run on old hardware: 3/5
More secure...: 5/5
More Linux experience: 1/5
No need to constantly update: 4/5
Integration...: 4/5
Better performance: 5/5
Easier to use: 3/5
Easier to install: 1/5
Better install/uninstall...: 4/5
No enforced license reg...: 5/5
Better scripting: 4/5
Better command line: 3/5
Better device/peripheral support: 3/5
Access to source code: 5/5
Easier to customize: 5/5
More intuitiev: 3/5
Linux Communtiy support: 5/5
Better reliability: 5/5
Satisfaction in not giving MS...: 2/5
I don't trust MS...: 1/5
Don't want to use proprietary SW: 3/5
Don't want to use commercial SW: 3/5
12. Importance of various tasks..
Playing games: 2/5
Hosting games: 1/5
Internet gateway: 5/5
Firewall: 5/5
Home file server: 3/5
Home web server: 2/5
Word processing: 5/5
Spreadsheets: N/A
Databases: 2/5
E-mail: 5/5
Web browsing: 5/5
Home finances: 2/5
Programming: 5/5
Desk Top Publishing: N/A
Photo Editing: 4/5
Video Editing: 2/5
Recording live TV/Video: N/A
Other: 5/5
13. What other operating system?
Windows 98
14. Do you dual boot? Yes
15. Make it affordable/cheaper, $180+ is way too expensive, but get rid of
special crippled "Home Editions" with security features stripped, and fix or
eliminate the product activation. Add more options to the firewall.. like
blocking incoming/outgoing TCP, UDP, and ICMP by port, destination, source,
flags, etc.
Include developer resources, tools, library headers/API references,
with the OS.
16. Get Out-of-the-box support and automatic recognition for more hardware.
Do NTFS-like ACLs, signed executables, and better interfaces and ways to
control access to data, programs, hardware.
Shorten the waiting time for boot up.
Why in the crap would anyone be interested in providing valuable information to your mortal enemy? Were mass lobotomies given without anyone telling me, or were stupid pills slipped in everyone's last drink, or what? I'm considering going and giving some responses, but purely crap ones so as to throw their free information off. But anyone who committed treason and actually gave these @$$holes good valuable information should be taken out back and beaten with a stick.
Treason?
Oh, what's the worst thing they could do?
Make Windows better for us, maybe?<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)
Or better for those of us who don't have such a strong vendetta against Microsoft for *gasp* selling software.
Oh, what's the worst thing they could do?
Make Windows better for us, maybe?<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)
Or better for those of us who don't have such a strong vendetta against Microsoft for *gasp* selling software.
> Make Windows better for us, maybe?
Given that "us" doesn't use any Micro$oft products and will not regardless of what they do (not that they're interested in any 'improvements' beyond further extending the illegal monopoly by whatever means necessary, where, given past history, that means illegal means), no.
> Or better for those of us who don't have such a strong vendetta against Microsoft for *gasp* selling software.
For one, the opinions of Micro$ofties like you wasn't requested (no, they don't give a crap what their 'customers,' where customers means idiots that take whatever the crap comes on their shiny new computer, think). For two, rather than spend 40 hours going through the list of strikes against Micro$oft, as you've apparently fallen out of a tree you were hiding in for the last 25 years and are far out of touch with reality, I'll refer you to your local news source; even NewsForge will do. It would probably pay to have a clue about what the heck you're talking about next time before posting about someone/something.
Given that "us" doesn't use any Micro$oft products and will not regardless of what they do (not that they're interested in any 'improvements' beyond further extending the illegal monopoly by whatever means necessary, where, given past history, that means illegal means), no.
> Or better for those of us who don't have such a strong vendetta against Microsoft for *gasp* selling software.
For one, the opinions of Micro$ofties like you wasn't requested (no, they don't give a crap what their 'customers,' where customers means idiots that take whatever the crap comes on their shiny new computer, think). For two, rather than spend 40 hours going through the list of strikes against Micro$oft, as you've apparently fallen out of a tree you were hiding in for the last 25 years and are far out of touch with reality, I'll refer you to your local news source; even NewsForge will do. It would probably pay to have a clue about what the heck you're talking about next time before posting about someone/something.
>> Make Windows better for us, maybe?
>
> Given that "us" doesn't use any Micro$oft products > and will not regardless of what they do (not that
Ah, but you're wrong. Many Linux users, in fact, probably MOST, except the very small minority of Open Source zealots, do use Microsoft products and other commercial software from time to time, as it suits them.
Their survey's addressed at Linux users, not just the zealots/purists who, abhorrent, will not touch windows with a 10' pole. In all likelihood, Microsoft COULDNT CARE LESS about the opinions of the zealots whom they cannot sway.
They are most interested in why people want to choose Linux over windows, and how they can influence us to choose otherwise...
The most obvious thing to do is to improve their product, and make changes that those of us who would still consider (or who still are) using Windows might like.
We get a product more suitable to our needs, and Microsoft gets more Linux users continuing to buy their products, and Windows becomes more Like Linux, maybe. It's Win-win-win: The users get better products from Microsoft, Microsoft maybe gets more systems running Linux, and the Linux users get more influence over Microsoft and the Windows products...
Shoot... if Microsoft makes even one change to accomodate Linux users, then it comes to show Linux is beginning to absorb 'em!
> they're interested in any 'improvements' beyond
> further extending the illegal monopoly by whatever
> means necessary, where, given past history, that
> means illegal means), no.
It's rather clear that you have something major against Microsoft.
They are not nice to their competition, maybe, but your argument that their motive is bad here is so weak and poorly supported, that I don't see it as compelling in the slightest.
Microsoft's not likely to be able to expand their Monopoly to Linux... it's GPL, which they fear, and that's usually enough to make 'em keep their distance.
>
> Given that "us" doesn't use any Micro$oft products > and will not regardless of what they do (not that
Ah, but you're wrong. Many Linux users, in fact, probably MOST, except the very small minority of Open Source zealots, do use Microsoft products and other commercial software from time to time, as it suits them.
Their survey's addressed at Linux users, not just the zealots/purists who, abhorrent, will not touch windows with a 10' pole. In all likelihood, Microsoft COULDNT CARE LESS about the opinions of the zealots whom they cannot sway.
They are most interested in why people want to choose Linux over windows, and how they can influence us to choose otherwise...
The most obvious thing to do is to improve their product, and make changes that those of us who would still consider (or who still are) using Windows might like.
We get a product more suitable to our needs, and Microsoft gets more Linux users continuing to buy their products, and Windows becomes more Like Linux, maybe. It's Win-win-win: The users get better products from Microsoft, Microsoft maybe gets more systems running Linux, and the Linux users get more influence over Microsoft and the Windows products...
Shoot... if Microsoft makes even one change to accomodate Linux users, then it comes to show Linux is beginning to absorb 'em!
> they're interested in any 'improvements' beyond
> further extending the illegal monopoly by whatever
> means necessary, where, given past history, that
> means illegal means), no.
It's rather clear that you have something major against Microsoft.
They are not nice to their competition, maybe, but your argument that their motive is bad here is so weak and poorly supported, that I don't see it as compelling in the slightest.
Microsoft's not likely to be able to expand their Monopoly to Linux... it's GPL, which they fear, and that's usually enough to make 'em keep their distance.
Provide them with something useful for everyone
Posted by: Anonymous Coward on December 22, 2003 11:09 PM
I'd have more faith in microsoft products if they were open.
I'm still not going to use them, but i think it'd serve their customers and the computer using population as a whole if they standardized things like the Office fileformats, SMB, NTFS and provided the documents to the world.
I'm still not going to use them, but i think it'd serve their customers and the computer using population as a whole if they standardized things like the Office fileformats, SMB, NTFS and provided the documents to the world.
> Ah, but you're wrong. Many Linux users, in fact, probably MOST, except the very small minority of Open Source zealots, do use Microsoft products and other commercial software from time to time, as it suits them.
Yes, even I use them when I'm forced to (at school usually, although not very often these days, maybe a couple times a semester or so). I'm talking about people that don't use the crap except when they don't any other choice. And those situations where there is no other choice are disappearing more and more every day.
> In all likelihood, Microsoft COULDNT CARE LESS about the opinions of the zealots whom they cannot sway.
You mean, those who are well aware of Micro$oft's past actions and usually have more sway over others in computer matters than your average bear. I couldn't possibly care less whether Micro$oft cares what I think or not, since that would change absolutely nothing.
> They are most interested in why people want to choose Linux over windows, and how they can influence us to choose otherwise...
Where "us" apparently means ignorant, stupid people with their head in the sand that are easily blown about by bright shiny lights and wicked smiles.
> The most obvious thing to do is to improve their product, and make changes that those of us who would still consider (or who still are) using Windows might like.
There's nothing they can improve to appease those of us with a mind, as opposed to you gullible imbeciles.
> We get a product more suitable to our needs, and Microsoft gets more Linux users continuing to buy their products, and Windows becomes more Like Linux, maybe.
Perhaps no one taught you when you were two years old about not helping the enemy that hates you. Rest assured I and many others with me have no interest in seeing Micro$oft do anything but die.
> Shoot... if Microsoft makes even one change to accomodate Linux users, then it comes to show Linux is beginning to absorb 'em!
Holy crap, you did just fall out of a tree after 25 years. Do a Google search on "embrace, extend, extinguish." I ain't wasting any more time explaining crap that everyone but you knows about to you.
> It's rather clear that you have something major against Microsoft.
Wow, you're incredibly insightful. Because I'm not going to repeat myself to you again, let me go back and copy my original quote: "For two, rather than spend 40 hours going through the list of strikes against Micro$oft, as you've apparently fallen out of a tree you were hiding in for the last 25 years and are far out of touch with reality, I'll refer you to your local news source; even NewsForge will do." Please learn how to read.
> They are not nice to their competition, maybe
Maybe? I'll again repeat my previous quote: "For two, rather than spend 40 hours going through the list of strikes against Micro$oft, as you've apparently fallen out of a tree you were hiding in for the last 25 years and are far out of touch with reality, I'll refer you to your local news source; even NewsForge will do." Again, please learn how to read.
> but your argument that their motive is bad here is so weak and poorly supported, that I don't see it as compelling in the slightest.
Alrighty, then in that case, I'm forced to yet again repeat my previous quote: "For two, rather than spend 40 hours going through the list of strikes against Micro$oft, as you've apparently fallen out of a tree you were hiding in for the last 25 years and are far out of touch with reality, I'll refer you to your local news source; even NewsForge will do." For goodness' sake, see what happens when you get in arguments and don't know how to read? For the third time, learn how to read. And when you're done learning how to read, learn that those who forget history are doomed to repeat it.
> Microsoft's not likely to be able to expand their Monopoly to Linux... it's GPL, which they fear, and that's usually enough to make 'em keep their distance.
My goodness, would having an occasional clue hurt? That would be why they want to kill Linux. The GPL doesn't seem to have done anything to make them not want to kill Linux, it has only made them want to kill and otherwise hurt it more, as much as possible.
Yes, even I use them when I'm forced to (at school usually, although not very often these days, maybe a couple times a semester or so). I'm talking about people that don't use the crap except when they don't any other choice. And those situations where there is no other choice are disappearing more and more every day.
> In all likelihood, Microsoft COULDNT CARE LESS about the opinions of the zealots whom they cannot sway.
You mean, those who are well aware of Micro$oft's past actions and usually have more sway over others in computer matters than your average bear. I couldn't possibly care less whether Micro$oft cares what I think or not, since that would change absolutely nothing.
> They are most interested in why people want to choose Linux over windows, and how they can influence us to choose otherwise...
Where "us" apparently means ignorant, stupid people with their head in the sand that are easily blown about by bright shiny lights and wicked smiles.
> The most obvious thing to do is to improve their product, and make changes that those of us who would still consider (or who still are) using Windows might like.
There's nothing they can improve to appease those of us with a mind, as opposed to you gullible imbeciles.
> We get a product more suitable to our needs, and Microsoft gets more Linux users continuing to buy their products, and Windows becomes more Like Linux, maybe.
Perhaps no one taught you when you were two years old about not helping the enemy that hates you. Rest assured I and many others with me have no interest in seeing Micro$oft do anything but die.
> Shoot... if Microsoft makes even one change to accomodate Linux users, then it comes to show Linux is beginning to absorb 'em!
Holy crap, you did just fall out of a tree after 25 years. Do a Google search on "embrace, extend, extinguish." I ain't wasting any more time explaining crap that everyone but you knows about to you.
> It's rather clear that you have something major against Microsoft.
Wow, you're incredibly insightful. Because I'm not going to repeat myself to you again, let me go back and copy my original quote: "For two, rather than spend 40 hours going through the list of strikes against Micro$oft, as you've apparently fallen out of a tree you were hiding in for the last 25 years and are far out of touch with reality, I'll refer you to your local news source; even NewsForge will do." Please learn how to read.
> They are not nice to their competition, maybe
Maybe? I'll again repeat my previous quote: "For two, rather than spend 40 hours going through the list of strikes against Micro$oft, as you've apparently fallen out of a tree you were hiding in for the last 25 years and are far out of touch with reality, I'll refer you to your local news source; even NewsForge will do." Again, please learn how to read.
> but your argument that their motive is bad here is so weak and poorly supported, that I don't see it as compelling in the slightest.
Alrighty, then in that case, I'm forced to yet again repeat my previous quote: "For two, rather than spend 40 hours going through the list of strikes against Micro$oft, as you've apparently fallen out of a tree you were hiding in for the last 25 years and are far out of touch with reality, I'll refer you to your local news source; even NewsForge will do." For goodness' sake, see what happens when you get in arguments and don't know how to read? For the third time, learn how to read. And when you're done learning how to read, learn that those who forget history are doomed to repeat it.
> Microsoft's not likely to be able to expand their Monopoly to Linux... it's GPL, which they fear, and that's usually enough to make 'em keep their distance.
My goodness, would having an occasional clue hurt? That would be why they want to kill Linux. The GPL doesn't seem to have done anything to make them not want to kill Linux, it has only made them want to kill and otherwise hurt it more, as much as possible.
Why not use windows?
Personal Preference
Window's a virus, as demonstrated by Microsoft even providing this survey!
And <A HREF="http://www.xbill.org/" TITLE="xbill.org">Xbill</a xbill.org> is a cool game!
Leaving aside the issues of licensing and security, there are still a few advantages that linux has. I like the text-based commandline interface, because it makes it so much easier to tell the computer exactly what you want to do. It also makes remote access much much easier, which is incredibly useful. Linux is also much more customizable, and much easier to customize to look exactly how you want it to. Program foo almost certainly keeps its settings in a<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.foorc text file of some sort, and there's likely a "foorc" manpage that explains the format. No hunting for mysterious registry keys or corruption of the registry or any of that. And Debian at least has a decent package management system, so to install program foo, I just have to type "apt-get install foo", and it Just Works, 99.999% of the time. No searching for where to find that program, no looking for dependencies, no "DLL Hell". Only when windows has these 3 basic features will it be worthy of any further consideration by me.
1. What best describes your Linux knowledge level?
Advanced
2. How long have you used Linux?
more than 2 years
3. Do people ask you for Linux advice?
Yes
4. What best describes the kind of Linux user you are?
IT administrator
5. Please describe your primary home Linux machine.
monitor type = CRT19"+
memory (RAM) = 385MB to 512MB
processor type = Intel
processor speed = 501Mhz to 1Ghz
number of CPUs = 1
hard drive space = 40.1GB to 60GB
length of your ownership = 3.1 to 4 years
6. What OS came with your primary Linux system when you got it?
Windows 98/SE
7. What kind of network connectivity do you use for your home Linux machine?
connecting to internet = ADSL or DSL
connecting to home network = no home network
8. What is the primary Linux distribution you use?
at home = Mandrake
at work = RedHat
9. What region are you from?
USA/Canada
10. Who would you recommend use Linux at home?
Intermediate users
Power users
Expert users
11. Rank the reasons you like Linux for the home.
Scale:
not important = 1
very important = 5
Its cheaper = 5
There is more free add-on software = 5
Better gaming experience = 3
Ability to run on old hardware = 3
More secure than Windows = 5
I want to get more Linux experience to help my career = 4
No need to constantly keep installing updates and fixes = 3
Integration with consumer electronics devices = 3
Better performance than Windows = 3
Easier to use than Windows = 2
Easier to install than Windows = 3
Better install and uninstall of additional software = 4
No enforced license registration = 5
Better scripting = 5
Better command line = 5
Better device and peripheral support = 3
Access to source code = 4
Easier to customize exactly how I want it = 4
More intuitive, simpler to understand = 4
Linux community support = 4
Better reliability = 5
The satisfaction of not giving Microsoft more money = 5
I don't trust Microsoft = 5
I don't want to use proprietary software = 5
I don't want to use commercial software = 1
12. Rank the importance of various tasks you use your home Linux system for.
not important = 1
very important = 5
N/A = 0
Playing games = 4
Hosting games = 2
Internet gateway = 3
Firewall = 4
A home file server = 3
A home web server = 3
Word processing = 5
Spreadsheets = 3
Databases = 0
E-mail = 5
Web browsing = 5
Home finances = 2
Programming = 4
Desk Top Publishing = 2
Photo Editing = 4
Video Editing = 3
Recording live TV/ Video = 2
Other = 3
13. What other operating system do you use at home?
Windows 98
14. Do you dual boot between different operating systems on your primary home Linux PC?
Yes
15. List the top one or two possible improvements that you would like to see made to Windows.
Include a compiler
16. List the top one or two improvements that you would like to see made to Linux.
More unified directory/security model in kernel
17. Please list your e-mail address if you don't mind answering follow-up questions. Your e-mail address will only be used for follow-up on this survey.
(sorry, not today)
Advanced
2. How long have you used Linux?
more than 2 years
3. Do people ask you for Linux advice?
Yes
4. What best describes the kind of Linux user you are?
IT administrator
5. Please describe your primary home Linux machine.
monitor type = CRT19"+
memory (RAM) = 385MB to 512MB
processor type = Intel
processor speed = 501Mhz to 1Ghz
number of CPUs = 1
hard drive space = 40.1GB to 60GB
length of your ownership = 3.1 to 4 years
6. What OS came with your primary Linux system when you got it?
Windows 98/SE
7. What kind of network connectivity do you use for your home Linux machine?
connecting to internet = ADSL or DSL
connecting to home network = no home network
8. What is the primary Linux distribution you use?
at home = Mandrake
at work = RedHat
9. What region are you from?
USA/Canada
10. Who would you recommend use Linux at home?
Intermediate users
Power users
Expert users
11. Rank the reasons you like Linux for the home.
Scale:
not important = 1
very important = 5
Its cheaper = 5
There is more free add-on software = 5
Better gaming experience = 3
Ability to run on old hardware = 3
More secure than Windows = 5
I want to get more Linux experience to help my career = 4
No need to constantly keep installing updates and fixes = 3
Integration with consumer electronics devices = 3
Better performance than Windows = 3
Easier to use than Windows = 2
Easier to install than Windows = 3
Better install and uninstall of additional software = 4
No enforced license registration = 5
Better scripting = 5
Better command line = 5
Better device and peripheral support = 3
Access to source code = 4
Easier to customize exactly how I want it = 4
More intuitive, simpler to understand = 4
Linux community support = 4
Better reliability = 5
The satisfaction of not giving Microsoft more money = 5
I don't trust Microsoft = 5
I don't want to use proprietary software = 5
I don't want to use commercial software = 1
12. Rank the importance of various tasks you use your home Linux system for.
not important = 1
very important = 5
N/A = 0
Playing games = 4
Hosting games = 2
Internet gateway = 3
Firewall = 4
A home file server = 3
A home web server = 3
Word processing = 5
Spreadsheets = 3
Databases = 0
E-mail = 5
Web browsing = 5
Home finances = 2
Programming = 4
Desk Top Publishing = 2
Photo Editing = 4
Video Editing = 3
Recording live TV/ Video = 2
Other = 3
13. What other operating system do you use at home?
Windows 98
14. Do you dual boot between different operating systems on your primary home Linux PC?
Yes
15. List the top one or two possible improvements that you would like to see made to Windows.
Include a compiler
16. List the top one or two improvements that you would like to see made to Linux.
More unified directory/security model in kernel
17. Please list your e-mail address if you don't mind answering follow-up questions. Your e-mail address will only be used for follow-up on this survey.
(sorry, not today)
It's seems pretty obvious to me, that if Microsoft are, indeed, behind this survey, it's ultimate purpose is to gather information about the "typical linux user", so MS can:
1. Better target their advertising in our direction.
2. Better understand the common expecations of linux users from their OS, so similar features can be implemented in Microsoft software.
1. Better target their advertising in our direction.
2. Better understand the common expecations of linux users from their OS, so similar features can be implemented in Microsoft software.
DRM is one of the primary things I mentioned that needs to be corrected before I would even consider Windows again. I had to purcahse a new version of Windows for university for ASP work, and I chose XP since I knew it would be supported the longest.
Now VMware wouldn't work properly. When I used to have Windows 98 I could run it under VMware or native mode (using dual-boot) using a single RAW partition installation. I simply created 2 hardware profiles, and everything worked like a charm. Native mode was especially useful for games not supported in VMware.
Now I have XP configured in the same way. DRM kicks in and asks me to re-activate every day. It gives me between just three days to one day to re-activate it, or I can't log in! And I have to ring up MS almost every day to do it, because it wouldn't work over the Internet (it says that it's already activated). It takes up to 30 minutes sometimes to activate - what a joke. Microsoft Tech support said they couldn't help me unless I forked out a ton of cash for a three month tech support subscription. Otherwise, it was suggested by tech support that I 'crack' my legal copy of XP! I kid you not.
I use Gentoo, and the forums there are so helpful, that I never hava a serious problem such as this.
Anyway, I hate booting into native mode, because I can't simultaneously use all my other applications I use under GNU/Linux.
Furthermore, what happens when MS no longer supports XP? I have an old laptop running Windows 98. It couldn't run anything newer from MS. Although it is beyond it's supported lifetime I still use it. Will microsoft release a crack for XP to remove DRM when the time comes (so users can re-install if need be), or (more likely) force everyone to upgrade?
DRM gives an untrustworthy company too much power.
Now VMware wouldn't work properly. When I used to have Windows 98 I could run it under VMware or native mode (using dual-boot) using a single RAW partition installation. I simply created 2 hardware profiles, and everything worked like a charm. Native mode was especially useful for games not supported in VMware.
Now I have XP configured in the same way. DRM kicks in and asks me to re-activate every day. It gives me between just three days to one day to re-activate it, or I can't log in! And I have to ring up MS almost every day to do it, because it wouldn't work over the Internet (it says that it's already activated). It takes up to 30 minutes sometimes to activate - what a joke. Microsoft Tech support said they couldn't help me unless I forked out a ton of cash for a three month tech support subscription. Otherwise, it was suggested by tech support that I 'crack' my legal copy of XP! I kid you not.
I use Gentoo, and the forums there are so helpful, that I never hava a serious problem such as this.
Anyway, I hate booting into native mode, because I can't simultaneously use all my other applications I use under GNU/Linux.
Furthermore, what happens when MS no longer supports XP? I have an old laptop running Windows 98. It couldn't run anything newer from MS. Although it is beyond it's supported lifetime I still use it. Will microsoft release a crack for XP to remove DRM when the time comes (so users can re-install if need be), or (more likely) force everyone to upgrade?
DRM gives an untrustworthy company too much power.
Hi, I took the survey, and the one answer I gave that might be useful to Linux developers is the one asking what could be improved in Linux. I answered:
1. Support for a greater range of hardware. (I'm using RH8 on a fairly new Dell, and can't get it to see my OEM Soundlbaster sound card or Fuji digital camera)
2. Easier application installation. As a programmer I don't mind doing:
cd<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/usr/local/newapp<nobr> <wbr></nobr>./configure<nobr> <wbr></nobr>./install
but that's beyond my boss's capabilities.
1. Support for a greater range of hardware. (I'm using RH8 on a fairly new Dell, and can't get it to see my OEM Soundlbaster sound card or Fuji digital camera)
2. Easier application installation. As a programmer I don't mind doing:
cd<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/usr/local/newapp<nobr> <wbr></nobr>./configure<nobr> <wbr></nobr>./install
but that's beyond my boss's capabilities.
OpenSource it, any company that hides their product, obviously, has something to hide. Not crashing all the time would be nice too... but that's just wishful thinking...have you seen Longhorn? yuck.
For the "Improve windows" section:
1) Get rid of the registry. I can't stress this one enough.
2) Ability to run server without added complexity/resource drain of a windowing system.
3) Make ALL configuragion files available via a simple text file.
For the "Improve linux" section:
Improvements need to be made to XFree86.
Simple, to the point.
1) Get rid of the registry. I can't stress this one enough.
2) Ability to run server without added complexity/resource drain of a windowing system.
3) Make ALL configuragion files available via a simple text file.
For the "Improve linux" section:
Improvements need to be made to XFree86.
Simple, to the point.
First off, all you folks that 'refused to take the survey' - do you really believe that MS employees don't read newsgroups, comment pages or other things? Providing the information here is functionally equivalent to providing it directly.
Second, I suspect MS wants to do what MS always has wanted to do - find out what works, and adopt it. If there are things that make people use Linux or any open source system that MS can utilize without losing their profit margin, they will do so. It isn't about wasting your time, or finding out secrets of the Linux environment, or what Open Source means. It's about finding out what you want.
Just hypothetically, if a company produced something that met your needs better than Linux, was more open, more secure, faster and had better support - would you pay for it anyway? That's what they're asking. Given the general pattern of development in the Linux world, it can only benefit both communities to answer reasonably.
Second, I suspect MS wants to do what MS always has wanted to do - find out what works, and adopt it. If there are things that make people use Linux or any open source system that MS can utilize without losing their profit margin, they will do so. It isn't about wasting your time, or finding out secrets of the Linux environment, or what Open Source means. It's about finding out what you want.
Just hypothetically, if a company produced something that met your needs better than Linux, was more open, more secure, faster and had better support - would you pay for it anyway? That's what they're asking. Given the general pattern of development in the Linux world, it can only benefit both communities to answer reasonably.
Interesting - marketers at any number of tech comapnies have used surveys as a way to get buzz going with customers in 'the enemy camp' for years. The surveys that are non-obviously marketing ploys are the most successful. (full dis: In a past life I have worked as a marketer. I now contribute to NewsForge).
Some of the wording of the surveys - where you're forced to make some non-obvious trade-off choices really seem to be aimed at making the respondants think that some of MS' vitrues are either/or vs. Linux, which is not necessarily the case.
My response btw, if anyone cares:
http://www.gulker.com/photos/2003/ms/MS_linux_wor<nobr>k<wbr></nobr> .pdf
http://www.gulker.com/photos/2003/ms/ms_linux_hom<nobr>e<wbr></nobr> .pdf
<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...which were genrated by 'printing' the web pages after I filled 'em out to PDF on a Mac OS X (hey...freeBSd under the hood) machine. Try doing that on a Windows machine (without buyin a proprietary package)... and yes, you can do it on Linux machines with a couple intermediary steps...
Well, the story asked for key responses to be shared with the community, so here are mine:
I'm an intermediate user with more than two years of experience with Linux. I would call myself a developer.
I recommend Linux to Intermediate, Power, and Expert users, only the adventurous types.
I do not dual boot my primary Linux machine. (Incidentally, I do dual boot my primary Windows 2K machine.)
Top few things I'd like to see in Windows:
I would like to see the majority of infrastructure currently only accessible or discoverable through a GUI to be usable through the shell.
I would also like a shell strong enough for real and robust problem solving and integration (through mutual invocation typically) with other tools.
Top few things I'd like to see in Linux:
I would like to get my DVD drive to play my movies well.
This is the second time my wife has used Linux. She is 48 years old and a writer so I think that she represents the non techie crowd fairly well.
About two months ago while watching the latest CNN story about security issues with Microsoft Windows she decided buy security software from BestBuy to help protect her system.
After pricing what was suggested to her she decided it would probably just be easier to use Linux again. I suggested SuSE. She installed it herself in about 30-45 minutes. We're on a home network with DSL - everything was recognized during the install, apparently with easy to understand nontechie language.
She uses an HP scanner, a Sony DSC-F717 Cyber-shot camera, and a Samsung ML-1430 laser printer. She started using OpenOffice that same day. Mozilla is being used more often that Konq* and evolution is the email client.
About two months ago while watching the latest CNN story about security issues with Microsoft Windows she decided buy security software from BestBuy to help protect her system.
After pricing what was suggested to her she decided it would probably just be easier to use Linux again. I suggested SuSE. She installed it herself in about 30-45 minutes. We're on a home network with DSL - everything was recognized during the install, apparently with easy to understand nontechie language.
She uses an HP scanner, a Sony DSC-F717 Cyber-shot camera, and a Samsung ML-1430 laser printer. She started using OpenOffice that same day. Mozilla is being used more often that Konq* and evolution is the email client.
Maybe if they sold applications for Linux. Flight simulator comes to mind.
I might consider MS Office, not that I think I especially need it, now that OpenOffice kicks its ass for free. But there could be some unforeseen need for some feature Office which has and that OpenOffice doesn't have yet. In which case I might buy MS Office for Linux. Or I might advise others to use an MS Office product in their Linux thin client environment. But it would have to really be a true Linux/X11 application with remote multiuser capabilities, like Star/OpenOffice, not some crippled hackjob and it would have to integrate with my choice of existing applications: it would not be acceptable for MSOffice/Linux to coerce me to use some other MS application on Linux too in order to use Office. But I doubt they're going to want to move that far away from their criminal habits and practices. It would be too uncomfortable and they'd just feel lost, I'm guessing.
All things considered, I think for them to get my business they'd pretty much have to agree to be split up by the government into at least two separate business entities. The way it was supposed to happen before they called in their chits with the Bush Mafia.
I might consider MS Office, not that I think I especially need it, now that OpenOffice kicks its ass for free. But there could be some unforeseen need for some feature Office which has and that OpenOffice doesn't have yet. In which case I might buy MS Office for Linux. Or I might advise others to use an MS Office product in their Linux thin client environment. But it would have to really be a true Linux/X11 application with remote multiuser capabilities, like Star/OpenOffice, not some crippled hackjob and it would have to integrate with my choice of existing applications: it would not be acceptable for MSOffice/Linux to coerce me to use some other MS application on Linux too in order to use Office. But I doubt they're going to want to move that far away from their criminal habits and practices. It would be too uncomfortable and they'd just feel lost, I'm guessing.
All things considered, I think for them to get my business they'd pretty much have to agree to be split up by the government into at least two separate business entities. The way it was supposed to happen before they called in their chits with the Bush Mafia.
Here is my ans
Linux Home User Questionnaire Exit this survey >>
1. What best describes your Linux knowledge level?
intermediate
2. How long have you used Linux?
5 years
3. Do people ask you for Linux advice?
Yes ----
No
4. What best describes the kind of Linux user you are?
Programmer & End User
5. Please describe your primary home Linux machine.
monitor type 15" memory (RAM)384 processor type intel processor speed 1.4GB number of CPUs 1 hard drive space 40 GB length of your ownership 1.5 years
details of your primary home Linux system
6. What OS came with your primary Linux system when you got it?
No OS loaded
7. What kind of network connectivity do you use for your home Linux machine?
connecting to internet dailup connecting to home network No home network
describe how your home Linux machine connects to a network
8. What is the primary Linux distribution you use?
at home SuSE 9.0 at work Windows NT
specify the Linux version you use
9. What region are you from?
Asia India
10. Who would you recommend use Linux at home?
Beginners
Intermediate users
Power users
Expert users
Everyone --------
Only adventurous types
11. Rank the reasons you like Linux for the home.
not important(in 0 to 4) very important
Its cheaper 3
There is more free add-on software 4
Better gaming experience 4
Ability to run on old hardware 3
More secure than Windows 4
I want to get more Linux experience to help my career 3
No need to constantly keep installing updates and fixes 4
Integration with consumer electronics devices 3
Better performance than Windows 4
Easier to use than Windows 4
Easier to install than Windows 4
Better install and uninstall of additional software 4
No enforced license registration 4
Better scripting 4
Better command line 4
Better device and peripheral support 4
Access to source code 4
Easier to customize exactly how I want it 4
More intuitive, simpler to understand 4
Linux community support 4
Better reliability 4
The satisfaction of not giving Microsoft more money. 4
I don't trust Microsoft 4
I don't want to use proprietary software 4
I don't want to use commercial software 0
12. Rank the importance of various tasks you use your home Linux system for.
not important (0 to 4 & N/A = -1) very important N/A
Playing games 3
Hosting games -1
Internet gateway -1
Firewall 3
A home file server 3
A home web server 4
Word processing 3
Spreadsheets 3
Databases 4
E-mail 4
Web browsing 4
Home finances 4
Programming 4
Desk Top Publishing 4
Photo Editing 4
Video Editing 4
Recording live TV/ Video -1
Other 4
13. What other operating system do you use at home?
Windows 95
Windows 98
Windows ME
Windows NT 4 Workstation
Windows NT 4 Server
Windows 2000 Pro
Windows 2000 Server
Windows XP
Windows 2003 Server
Apple Macintosh
Other
Other (please specify) ----- I only use Linux
14. Do you dual boot between different operating systems on your primary home Linux PC?
Yes No ------
15. List the top one or two possible improvements that you would like to see made to Windows.
1. Make it Open Source
2. Make it more user friendly
3. Make it more reliable & secure
4. Make it robust.
5. More customizable.
16. List the top one or two improvements that you would like to see made to Linux.
1. More gaming support
17. Please list your e-mail address if you don't mind answering follow-up questions. Your e-mail address will only be used for follow-up on this survey.
Anirban Biswas.
PS: Hey how about doing the same thing in a Linux site so that results can be analysied betterly & we will have a record.
Linux Home User Questionnaire Exit this survey >>
1. What best describes your Linux knowledge level?
intermediate
2. How long have you used Linux?
5 years
3. Do people ask you for Linux advice?
Yes ----
No
4. What best describes the kind of Linux user you are?
Programmer & End User
5. Please describe your primary home Linux machine.
monitor type 15" memory (RAM)384 processor type intel processor speed 1.4GB number of CPUs 1 hard drive space 40 GB length of your ownership 1.5 years
details of your primary home Linux system
6. What OS came with your primary Linux system when you got it?
No OS loaded
7. What kind of network connectivity do you use for your home Linux machine?
connecting to internet dailup connecting to home network No home network
describe how your home Linux machine connects to a network
8. What is the primary Linux distribution you use?
at home SuSE 9.0 at work Windows NT
specify the Linux version you use
9. What region are you from?
Asia India
10. Who would you recommend use Linux at home?
Beginners
Intermediate users
Power users
Expert users
Everyone --------
Only adventurous types
11. Rank the reasons you like Linux for the home.
not important(in 0 to 4) very important
Its cheaper 3
There is more free add-on software 4
Better gaming experience 4
Ability to run on old hardware 3
More secure than Windows 4
I want to get more Linux experience to help my career 3
No need to constantly keep installing updates and fixes 4
Integration with consumer electronics devices 3
Better performance than Windows 4
Easier to use than Windows 4
Easier to install than Windows 4
Better install and uninstall of additional software 4
No enforced license registration 4
Better scripting 4
Better command line 4
Better device and peripheral support 4
Access to source code 4
Easier to customize exactly how I want it 4
More intuitive, simpler to understand 4
Linux community support 4
Better reliability 4
The satisfaction of not giving Microsoft more money. 4
I don't trust Microsoft 4
I don't want to use proprietary software 4
I don't want to use commercial software 0
12. Rank the importance of various tasks you use your home Linux system for.
not important (0 to 4 & N/A = -1) very important N/A
Playing games 3
Hosting games -1
Internet gateway -1
Firewall 3
A home file server 3
A home web server 4
Word processing 3
Spreadsheets 3
Databases 4
E-mail 4
Web browsing 4
Home finances 4
Programming 4
Desk Top Publishing 4
Photo Editing 4
Video Editing 4
Recording live TV/ Video -1
Other 4
13. What other operating system do you use at home?
Windows 95
Windows 98
Windows ME
Windows NT 4 Workstation
Windows NT 4 Server
Windows 2000 Pro
Windows 2000 Server
Windows XP
Windows 2003 Server
Apple Macintosh
Other
Other (please specify) ----- I only use Linux
14. Do you dual boot between different operating systems on your primary home Linux PC?
Yes No ------
15. List the top one or two possible improvements that you would like to see made to Windows.
1. Make it Open Source
2. Make it more user friendly
3. Make it more reliable & secure
4. Make it robust.
5. More customizable.
16. List the top one or two improvements that you would like to see made to Linux.
1. More gaming support
17. Please list your e-mail address if you don't mind answering follow-up questions. Your e-mail address will only be used for follow-up on this survey.
Anirban Biswas.
PS: Hey how about doing the same thing in a Linux site so that results can be analysied betterly & we will have a record.
<TT>Here is my ans
Linux Home User Questionnaire Exit this survey >>
1. What best describes your Linux knowledge level?
intermediate
2. How long have you used Linux?
5 years
3. Do people ask you for Linux advice?
Yes <----
No
4. What best describes the kind of Linux user you are?
Programmer & End User
5. Please describe your primary home Linux machine.
monitor type 15" memory (RAM)384 processor type intel processor speed 1.4GB number of CPUs 1 hard drive space 40 GB length of your ownership 1.5 years
details of your primary home Linux system
6. What OS came with your primary Linux system when you got it?
No OS loaded
7. What kind of network connectivity do you use for your home Linux machine?
connecting to internet dailup connecting to home network No home network
describe how your home Linux machine connects to a network
8. What is the primary Linux distribution you use?
at home SuSE 9.0 at work Windows NT
specify the Linux version you use
9. What region are you from?
Asia India
10. Who would you recommend use Linux at home?
Beginners
Intermediate users
Power users
Expert users
Everyone <--------
Only adventurous types
11. Rank the reasons you like Linux for the home.
not important(in 0 to 4) very important
Its cheaper 3
There is more free add-on software 4
Better gaming experience 4
Ability to run on old hardware 3
More secure than Windows 4
I want to get more Linux experience to help my career 3
No need to constantly keep installing updates and fixes 4
Integration with consumer electronics devices 3
Better performance than Windows 4
Easier to use than Windows 4
Easier to install than Windows 4
Better install and uninstall of additional software 4
No enforced license registration 4
Better scripting 4
Better command line 4
Better device and peripheral support 4
Access to source code 4
Easier to customize exactly how I want it 4
More intuitive, simpler to understand 4
Linux community support 4
Better reliability 4
The satisfaction of not giving Microsoft more money. 4
I don't trust Microsoft 4
I don't want to use proprietary software 4
I don't want to use commercial software 0
12. Rank the importance of various tasks you use your home Linux system for.
not important (0 to 4 & N/A = -1) very important N/A
Playing games 3
Hosting games -1
Internet gateway -1
Firewall 3
A home file server 3
A home web server 4
Word processing 3
Spreadsheets 3
Databases 4
E-mail 4
Web browsing 4
Home finances 4
Programming 4
Desk Top Publishing 4
Photo Editing 4
Video Editing 4
Recording live TV/ Video -1
Other 4
13. What other operating system do you use at home?
Windows 95
Windows 98
Windows ME
Windows NT 4 Workstation
Windows NT 4 Server
Windows 2000 Pro
Windows 2000 Server
Windows XP
Windows 2003 Server
Apple Macintosh
Other
Other (please specify) <----- I only use Linux
14. Do you dual boot between different operating systems on your primary home Linux PC?
Yes No <------
15. List the top one or two possible improvements that you would like to see made to Windows.
1. Make it Open Source
2. Make it more user friendly
3. Make it more reliable & secure
4. Make it robust.
5. More customizable.
16. List the top one or two improvements that you would like to see made to Linux.
1. More gaming support
17. Please list your e-mail address if you don't mind answering follow-up questions. Your e-mail address will only be used for follow-up on this survey.
Anirban Biswas.
PS: Hey how about doing the same thing in a Linux site so that results can be analysied betterly & we will have a record.</TT>
Linux Home User Questionnaire Exit this survey >>
1. What best describes your Linux knowledge level?
intermediate
2. How long have you used Linux?
5 years
3. Do people ask you for Linux advice?
Yes <----
No
4. What best describes the kind of Linux user you are?
Programmer & End User
5. Please describe your primary home Linux machine.
monitor type 15" memory (RAM)384 processor type intel processor speed 1.4GB number of CPUs 1 hard drive space 40 GB length of your ownership 1.5 years
details of your primary home Linux system
6. What OS came with your primary Linux system when you got it?
No OS loaded
7. What kind of network connectivity do you use for your home Linux machine?
connecting to internet dailup connecting to home network No home network
describe how your home Linux machine connects to a network
8. What is the primary Linux distribution you use?
at home SuSE 9.0 at work Windows NT
specify the Linux version you use
9. What region are you from?
Asia India
10. Who would you recommend use Linux at home?
Beginners
Intermediate users
Power users
Expert users
Everyone <--------
Only adventurous types
11. Rank the reasons you like Linux for the home.
not important(in 0 to 4) very important
Its cheaper 3
There is more free add-on software 4
Better gaming experience 4
Ability to run on old hardware 3
More secure than Windows 4
I want to get more Linux experience to help my career 3
No need to constantly keep installing updates and fixes 4
Integration with consumer electronics devices 3
Better performance than Windows 4
Easier to use than Windows 4
Easier to install than Windows 4
Better install and uninstall of additional software 4
No enforced license registration 4
Better scripting 4
Better command line 4
Better device and peripheral support 4
Access to source code 4
Easier to customize exactly how I want it 4
More intuitive, simpler to understand 4
Linux community support 4
Better reliability 4
The satisfaction of not giving Microsoft more money. 4
I don't trust Microsoft 4
I don't want to use proprietary software 4
I don't want to use commercial software 0
12. Rank the importance of various tasks you use your home Linux system for.
not important (0 to 4 & N/A = -1) very important N/A
Playing games 3
Hosting games -1
Internet gateway -1
Firewall 3
A home file server 3
A home web server 4
Word processing 3
Spreadsheets 3
Databases 4
E-mail 4
Web browsing 4
Home finances 4
Programming 4
Desk Top Publishing 4
Photo Editing 4
Video Editing 4
Recording live TV/ Video -1
Other 4
13. What other operating system do you use at home?
Windows 95
Windows 98
Windows ME
Windows NT 4 Workstation
Windows NT 4 Server
Windows 2000 Pro
Windows 2000 Server
Windows XP
Windows 2003 Server
Apple Macintosh
Other
Other (please specify) <----- I only use Linux
14. Do you dual boot between different operating systems on your primary home Linux PC?
Yes No <------
15. List the top one or two possible improvements that you would like to see made to Windows.
1. Make it Open Source
2. Make it more user friendly
3. Make it more reliable & secure
4. Make it robust.
5. More customizable.
16. List the top one or two improvements that you would like to see made to Linux.
1. More gaming support
17. Please list your e-mail address if you don't mind answering follow-up questions. Your e-mail address will only be used for follow-up on this survey.
Anirban Biswas.
PS: Hey how about doing the same thing in a Linux site so that results can be analysied betterly & we will have a record.</TT>
Provided as text, because I feel that this is more accurate.
I am senior security engineer at a large freemail provider, and am also using Linux at home. I answered both questionaires. I have been using Linux as my main operating system at home since 30-Dec-1992, and people ask me for advice regarding Linux. A lot. I maintain a FAQ and used to maintain a Mini-Howto.
At home, I am using Linux on my DSL Router/File/Print/Firewall/Mailserver/Newsserver box, and at my workstation. Both machines do run Suse 9.0. My workstation also has a Windows 98 install in an undoable disk in VMware which I need to talk to by PBX. I am using VMware a lot, often running several instances and simulated networks at the same time - I am using VMware for example to teach people VPN networking with Linux, or to illustrate the use of raidtools, LVM and the like.
At home, I am using my machine for running the Konqueror web browser and Open Office, to run the Gideon development environment. I own a Kodak digital camera and a Palm pilot which I am controlling from Linux.
At work, we are running ~600 linux servers with 1-4 CPUs, several of them in a clustered configuration to provide a freemail service to several million customers as well as a bunch of other services. We rely on Open Source products heavily, using commercial products like the Oracle database server where necessary. We do provide our own technical support and development in house, and Open Source is a great benefit for us, as we are able to tailor the available solutions precisely to our needs.
We do run Windows desktops, but also offer Linux desktops to employees that are interested. Almost all of our admin desktops and more and more development desktops convert to Linux, while the sales and support types still cling to Windows. For PHB reasons we do run an exchange cluster and the necessary support infrastructure, but are not very impressed with the performance delivered and the amount of maintenance required.
I think that Windows can be improved a lot by Microsoft becoming finally a mature and grown-up company that plays well with others and acts trustworthy in its relationships to its customers and partners. Until Microsoft proves that it has significantly changed its attitude, there is no way I will consider their products for anything strategic if there is any other viable solution.
I think that Linux can be improved a lot by projects starting to look at the projects that they depend on or they provide services for and starting better vertical and horizontal integration. Suse is definitively on the right track here, providing for example ACLs in all local filesystems, and enabling ACL support in Samba (which relies on local ACL support). Or by enabling kerberos support in many products, and proving properly preconfigured kerberos servers. There are lots of other opportunities for similar improvements.
I am senior security engineer at a large freemail provider, and am also using Linux at home. I answered both questionaires. I have been using Linux as my main operating system at home since 30-Dec-1992, and people ask me for advice regarding Linux. A lot. I maintain a FAQ and used to maintain a Mini-Howto.
At home, I am using Linux on my DSL Router/File/Print/Firewall/Mailserver/Newsserver box, and at my workstation. Both machines do run Suse 9.0. My workstation also has a Windows 98 install in an undoable disk in VMware which I need to talk to by PBX. I am using VMware a lot, often running several instances and simulated networks at the same time - I am using VMware for example to teach people VPN networking with Linux, or to illustrate the use of raidtools, LVM and the like.
At home, I am using my machine for running the Konqueror web browser and Open Office, to run the Gideon development environment. I own a Kodak digital camera and a Palm pilot which I am controlling from Linux.
At work, we are running ~600 linux servers with 1-4 CPUs, several of them in a clustered configuration to provide a freemail service to several million customers as well as a bunch of other services. We rely on Open Source products heavily, using commercial products like the Oracle database server where necessary. We do provide our own technical support and development in house, and Open Source is a great benefit for us, as we are able to tailor the available solutions precisely to our needs.
We do run Windows desktops, but also offer Linux desktops to employees that are interested. Almost all of our admin desktops and more and more development desktops convert to Linux, while the sales and support types still cling to Windows. For PHB reasons we do run an exchange cluster and the necessary support infrastructure, but are not very impressed with the performance delivered and the amount of maintenance required.
I think that Windows can be improved a lot by Microsoft becoming finally a mature and grown-up company that plays well with others and acts trustworthy in its relationships to its customers and partners. Until Microsoft proves that it has significantly changed its attitude, there is no way I will consider their products for anything strategic if there is any other viable solution.
I think that Linux can be improved a lot by projects starting to look at the projects that they depend on or they provide services for and starting better vertical and horizontal integration. Suse is definitively on the right track here, providing for example ACLs in all local filesystems, and enabling ACL support in Samba (which relies on local ACL support). Or by enabling kerberos support in many products, and proving properly preconfigured kerberos servers. There are lots of other opportunities for similar improvements.
Linux is a kernel, not an operating system. So here are my answers regarding Q. 16 (improvements to the linux kernel):
java runtime env as a kernel module
Apart from that, none. The linux kernel is as fine a kernel as I could wish for. I'm a bit puzzled you made a survey comparing a kernel to something you call an OS.
Unfortunately I couldn't give answers to Q. 12 (Importance of tasks you use linux for), since the things I know the kernel provides or at least assists (web server, file server, firewall) are not being used on my home machine (though I do use them on my home server, but I felt like they only asked about my primary computer.
Concerning Q11 (reasons I like linux for home use), that is quite a laugh. I don't understand what they believe the scripting capabilities of the kernel are, and the command line interface certainly sucks. It is quite easily customizable, though, and saying "cast linux" on sourcemage is indeed a lot easier than installing windows.
For question 10 (who would you recommend to use linux) I assume they mean really only use linux, nothing on top of or built around that, so that's obviously only for adventurous types.
I also didn't feel like telling them the truth about questions I could truthfully answer, but I hope my answers to those questions are not suffiently ridiculous to be taken out of the survey before it can contaminate their database.
java runtime env as a kernel module
Apart from that, none. The linux kernel is as fine a kernel as I could wish for. I'm a bit puzzled you made a survey comparing a kernel to something you call an OS.
Unfortunately I couldn't give answers to Q. 12 (Importance of tasks you use linux for), since the things I know the kernel provides or at least assists (web server, file server, firewall) are not being used on my home machine (though I do use them on my home server, but I felt like they only asked about my primary computer.
Concerning Q11 (reasons I like linux for home use), that is quite a laugh. I don't understand what they believe the scripting capabilities of the kernel are, and the command line interface certainly sucks. It is quite easily customizable, though, and saying "cast linux" on sourcemage is indeed a lot easier than installing windows.
For question 10 (who would you recommend to use linux) I assume they mean really only use linux, nothing on top of or built around that, so that's obviously only for adventurous types.
I also didn't feel like telling them the truth about questions I could truthfully answer, but I hope my answers to those questions are not suffiently ridiculous to be taken out of the survey before it can contaminate their database.
While I'm sure that all these responses are getting a bit wearisome to go through, I hope that someone is able to tabulate all our posted responses and learn something insightful from our aggregate information (perhaps an article on what the 'average' Linux user is like) while keeping in mind that the results posted here may not accurately reflect a perfect cross-section of Linux users, only a cross-sections of folks who read and post to Newsforge. Thus these results may not reflect folks who aren't Newsforge readers, such as folks who bought computers at Wal-Mart with Lindows preinstalled and who were under the impression that it is the generic store-brand knock-off of Windows, like the name suggests (Sam's Choice OS anybody? Does Lindows rename the command dd if=/dev/zero to Lindex?). It may also not reflect the views of paranoid Linux fans (you know who you are) who are reading Newsforge via three proxies and a firewall. Anyhow, enough trolling for now. Here are my responses (Home user)
1. Knowledge level: intermediate
2. Length of Linux use: 2+ years
3. Do other folks ask me for Linux advice: No
(I'm the only one I know who uses it. But they assume that since I'm a Linux user, that I must be a computer nerd, so they assume that I can help them Windows (?!).
I'm getting sick of typing what's already there, so from now on, just answers.
4. End User
5. 15" LCD, 256MB, 1.4 GHz, 1 processor, 30 GB HD owned less than six months
6. Came with WinXP Home OEM
7. Connect with Cable Modem
8. RedHat for Home Use (I really use Fedora Core 1, but I think Redhat is a cloer fit than 'other',<nobr> <wbr></nobr>,since it's really RedHat, like Mozilla's really Netscape and OpenOffice is really StarOffice)
9. Recommend to everyone
10. Things I like most about Linux (several checkboxes, but here are the most imiportant to me: better scripting, better command line, cheaper, community support.
11. Most important uses: home file server, word processing, web browsing, email
13 and 14 Dual boot into XP Pro (for Dreamweaver)
15 Suggestions for Windows:
Open source to enable the community to contribute and modify the software (hey, you get free programming) and the end user to better customize his or her computing environment.
Get rid of the registry. User specific settings can be kept small files in their Documents and Settings folder and deleted when necessary and system wide settings can be put in another directory (maybe a settings directory like Unix<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/etc directory). It's a pain to maintain a registry and programs rarely uninstall cleanly from it, which brings me to my final suggestion:
Make programs easier to uninstall. Linux is incredibly intuitive when it comes to this, just delete the program files along with the settings files from the<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/etc and home directories, that's it -- no worrying about little orphaned files or registry settings scattered around the hard-drive.
16. Suggestions for Linux:
A common package management scheme. As a RedHat user, most of my computer is managed by Apt for RPM. Unfortunately, I often install programs with tar.gz (if there is no rpm or if the only rpm available is not the newest version). This often leaves me having to keep track of what version (tarball or rpm) I am using to keep from installing duplicate or conflicting packages. Furthermore, since rpm does not recognize these packages, I run into problems when I install an rpm that with a dependency that was installed as a tarball. Easily resolved, but a headache nonetheless.
1. Knowledge level: intermediate
2. Length of Linux use: 2+ years
3. Do other folks ask me for Linux advice: No
(I'm the only one I know who uses it. But they assume that since I'm a Linux user, that I must be a computer nerd, so they assume that I can help them Windows (?!).
I'm getting sick of typing what's already there, so from now on, just answers.
4. End User
5. 15" LCD, 256MB, 1.4 GHz, 1 processor, 30 GB HD owned less than six months
6. Came with WinXP Home OEM
7. Connect with Cable Modem
8. RedHat for Home Use (I really use Fedora Core 1, but I think Redhat is a cloer fit than 'other',<nobr> <wbr></nobr>,since it's really RedHat, like Mozilla's really Netscape and OpenOffice is really StarOffice)
9. Recommend to everyone
10. Things I like most about Linux (several checkboxes, but here are the most imiportant to me: better scripting, better command line, cheaper, community support.
11. Most important uses: home file server, word processing, web browsing, email
13 and 14 Dual boot into XP Pro (for Dreamweaver)
15 Suggestions for Windows:
Open source to enable the community to contribute and modify the software (hey, you get free programming) and the end user to better customize his or her computing environment.
Get rid of the registry. User specific settings can be kept small files in their Documents and Settings folder and deleted when necessary and system wide settings can be put in another directory (maybe a settings directory like Unix<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/etc directory). It's a pain to maintain a registry and programs rarely uninstall cleanly from it, which brings me to my final suggestion:
Make programs easier to uninstall. Linux is incredibly intuitive when it comes to this, just delete the program files along with the settings files from the<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/etc and home directories, that's it -- no worrying about little orphaned files or registry settings scattered around the hard-drive.
16. Suggestions for Linux:
A common package management scheme. As a RedHat user, most of my computer is managed by Apt for RPM. Unfortunately, I often install programs with tar.gz (if there is no rpm or if the only rpm available is not the newest version). This often leaves me having to keep track of what version (tarball or rpm) I am using to keep from installing duplicate or conflicting packages. Furthermore, since rpm does not recognize these packages, I run into problems when I install an rpm that with a dependency that was installed as a tarball. Easily resolved, but a headache nonetheless.
Microsoft is a business and you folks make statements like "mortal enemy"<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.... if you ever want Linux in mainstream home or business use stop talking like some spoiled 17 year old on a hormone rush.
Business people don't respect rhetoric but hard evidence. Bottom line is Microsoft has the upper hand, they have a tightly integrated system and we are not anywhere near there. With recent Red Hat and Suse happening it appears the free movement will die and Linux will become a commercial product....will Red Hat and Novell now be the mortal enemy ? they charge more for their web server than Microsoft does<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...wake-up...money talks and all the bullshit walks
Business people don't respect rhetoric but hard evidence. Bottom line is Microsoft has the upper hand, they have a tightly integrated system and we are not anywhere near there. With recent Red Hat and Suse happening it appears the free movement will die and Linux will become a commercial product....will Red Hat and Novell now be the mortal enemy ? they charge more for their web server than Microsoft does<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...wake-up...money talks and all the bullshit walks
Surely the answer to the questionaire is NOTHING.
FOSS supporters are only interested in what contribution Microsoft can make to Free and open software.
As this is never going to happen, responding to such surveys is just wasting the time and effort of the FOSS movement - which is precisely what Microsoft wants at this time of year i.e. Microsoft employees are on holiday, and so are FOSS software developers. Which means that FOSS software will improve by another n% over the Christmas period, whilst the Microsoft effort stands still.
Do not be conned.
FOSS supporters are only interested in what contribution Microsoft can make to Free and open software.
As this is never going to happen, responding to such surveys is just wasting the time and effort of the FOSS movement - which is precisely what Microsoft wants at this time of year i.e. Microsoft employees are on holiday, and so are FOSS software developers. Which means that FOSS software will improve by another n% over the Christmas period, whilst the Microsoft effort stands still.
Do not be conned.
Windows - how to make it better:
Non-discriminatory access to the source code (hint: MIT or BSD license terms) of at least the out-of-date, unsupported, end-of-line and discontinued product (ie, OS and end-user) lines so I can do my own maintenance, for not only myself, but also for a voluntary organization I work for that relies heavily on Windows.
Non-discriminatory access to the source code (hint: MIT or BSD license terms) of at least the out-of-date, unsupported, end-of-line and discontinued product (ie, OS and end-user) lines so I can do my own maintenance, for not only myself, but also for a voluntary organization I work for that relies heavily on Windows.
Verified and credible proof that a mere change in product numbering - WinNT 4.0 to WinNT 5.0 to WinNT5.1, will not disturb the smooth and safe functioning of any network I find myself on.
I don't care what Microsoft uses my answer for...
Posted by: Anonymous Coward on December 22, 2003 06:51 PM
Best case scenario: They improve their system. If I'm forced to continue using it at work (which is more than likely), at least it will be less painful.
Worst case scenario: They try to leverage this over the open source community in some odd way. What else is new. It hasn't worked before, and it won't now. On that note...
15. List the top one or two possible improvements that you would like to see made to Windows.
I'm assuming you are actually referring to the whole suite of Microsoft products (IE, Office, Outlook, etc.), and not just the OS. My apologies for going off-topic if you are not.
Open standards would make the entire system far more customizable. It would even benefit Microsoft, IMO, to allow users to modify parts of the system and share their ideas with others, thus giving you test cases before broadly releasing something and finding it to be a mistake.
Also, I would like to see an end to the gradual dumbing-down of Windows. I'm not talking about ease of use -- Microsoft Office 2002/XP's menu system is near unusuable with the keyboard, many Windows products now use menus that hide your options, and Windows XP uses a Start Menu that everyone I know considers to be completely unusable (and few of the people I know are very technically inclined). Even the hiding of filename extensions is shielding people from something that they really need to be aware of -- don't block the file name extensions if they are going to be critical to the use of the system. Yes, I know these items are all configurable, but it has been rare (if ever) that I have met someone who prefers these settings that were supposedly designed to make things easier for them.
The command line: Even though XP has made some progress on this, Windows has a long way to go before it catches up with the power and ease of use that Linux has in its command line. On Windows I do most of my work graphically. On Linux I do most of my work in the command-line, despite the fact that I boot into a graphical environment. Why? Because Linux has properly leveraged the power of the command line so that tasks are far easier to complete there than they are even using graphical tools. Major items needed for Windows: Auto-complete for program names (good work finally adding it for filenames thought!) and regular expressions on the command line (and in Microsoft Office, while you're at it).
Tabbed browsing in Internet Explorer. I refuse to use any browser where I can't, at a glance, see 15 pages loading simultaneously and know which ones are complete, or keep different groups of web pages in different windows, or bookmark a half dozen of my favorite web sites in a single bookmark.
Add in some little start menu niceties, like news tickers, weather monitors, system monitors (and I mean ones where you can tell what's going on from a glance at the menu bar), controls for Media Player -- all of these are huge conveniences that I can no longer live without on my computer. Also, the option for multiple start menus.
Multiple desktops running simultaneously.
Multiple logins running simultaneously.
Easy-to-administer multiple user settings with vastly different permissions. The abililty to know that the short story I'm writing is readable only by me, and that my computer-illiterate friends or family can't accidentally delete system files, since they lack the permissions to do so. Come to think of it, the same permissions to prevent me from accidentally doing the same thing! (Power on the command line comes with the price that a single keystroke can be your downfall.)
I hinted at this above, but regular expression searching in Microsoft Word and Excel -- especially for search and replace.
Indexed searching in Outlook, a la Ximian Evolution. Every time I search my e-mail for messages it takes five to ten minutes in Outlook -- this would be nearly instantaneous in Evolution.
Standards compliance. Java is useless if it isn't cross-platform. HTML should not be extended, except by the proper channels (that being the W3C), especially if your browser does not yet fully support standard HTML4+CSS2. Speaking as a web developer, Internet Explorer is often my biggest nightmare when making my web pages compatible with different browsers. The only browser that may give me more trouble is the horrible one integrated with Sun StarOffice.
Better documentation. Linux and most of its tools are extensively documented via the man pages and their respective home pages. Similar commands cross-reference each other frequently. If you aren't sure which command you are looking for, 'apropos' is a huge help. On Windows, command-line tools receive little if any documentation. The results of the<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/? switch, despite sometimes being too long to be browsable, are often lacking enough in detail to be helpful. Often, graphical tools are similarly lacking in useful documentation. Help is sometimes reduced to 'The CHROVSKY text box allows you to adjust the CHROVSKY' -- not particularly useful if you have no idea what a CHROVSKY is.
Hardware detection and installation. My USB Hard Drive-like devices installed with a simple addition of one line to a text file on Linux. Not very intuitive, but very easy once you are used to it. I have had these items for six months and Windows XP still has baloons popping up insisting that the devices were not installed -- which they were, several times in fact. The devices are in perfect working order on both systems, yet Windows keeps annoying me to tell me that things aren't fine, even though they are. This is incredibly annoying.
I love Gnome's ability to change your startup configuration by checking a box when you shut down, thus telling Gnome that you want the same programs to start up again when you come back. An excellent feature Windows could learn well from.
More powerful tools at the command line. Not just the shell itself (which I mentioned earlier), but some simple text processing tools, system monitors, etc. A few such tools do exist for Windows, but not many, and certainly not the ones that I use every day.
Diversity. Encourage multiple developers to try their own takes on the same software. Distribute multiple items that do the same job with Windows instead of developing your own competing version. Let the companies learn from each other's mistakes and create better products.
Okay, this isn't a Windows improvement, but just a note: MSN is horrifically frustrating. It seems to use a proprietary interface which I can't get to work under Linux (which led to my cancelling the service in favor of the far easier to use Earthlink). At the same time, my MSN e-mail account receives far more spam than all of my other e-mail accounts combined! (I'm talking about eight other accounts, some of which I have been using for years prior to getting MSN!) Forget spam filters, I want an e-mail account that isn't made as vulnerable to spam to begin with! Okay, just needed to get that out of my system... Not your fault; that's a different department (I think)...
16. List the top one or two improvements that you would like to see made to Linux.
A widely used database front end with the power of Microsoft Access.
Easier VPN setup.
Easier to use on laptops, and better ability to detect battery settings on same.
Greater hardware support for some devices.
Less cynical community.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;-)
----
I'm sure many will disagree with me on some of these points. But then again, I do tend to think that the whole point of Linux and OSS is people's need to be different from each other... ah, well...
Worst case scenario: They try to leverage this over the open source community in some odd way. What else is new. It hasn't worked before, and it won't now. On that note...
15. List the top one or two possible improvements that you would like to see made to Windows.
I'm assuming you are actually referring to the whole suite of Microsoft products (IE, Office, Outlook, etc.), and not just the OS. My apologies for going off-topic if you are not.
Open standards would make the entire system far more customizable. It would even benefit Microsoft, IMO, to allow users to modify parts of the system and share their ideas with others, thus giving you test cases before broadly releasing something and finding it to be a mistake.
Also, I would like to see an end to the gradual dumbing-down of Windows. I'm not talking about ease of use -- Microsoft Office 2002/XP's menu system is near unusuable with the keyboard, many Windows products now use menus that hide your options, and Windows XP uses a Start Menu that everyone I know considers to be completely unusable (and few of the people I know are very technically inclined). Even the hiding of filename extensions is shielding people from something that they really need to be aware of -- don't block the file name extensions if they are going to be critical to the use of the system. Yes, I know these items are all configurable, but it has been rare (if ever) that I have met someone who prefers these settings that were supposedly designed to make things easier for them.
The command line: Even though XP has made some progress on this, Windows has a long way to go before it catches up with the power and ease of use that Linux has in its command line. On Windows I do most of my work graphically. On Linux I do most of my work in the command-line, despite the fact that I boot into a graphical environment. Why? Because Linux has properly leveraged the power of the command line so that tasks are far easier to complete there than they are even using graphical tools. Major items needed for Windows: Auto-complete for program names (good work finally adding it for filenames thought!) and regular expressions on the command line (and in Microsoft Office, while you're at it).
Tabbed browsing in Internet Explorer. I refuse to use any browser where I can't, at a glance, see 15 pages loading simultaneously and know which ones are complete, or keep different groups of web pages in different windows, or bookmark a half dozen of my favorite web sites in a single bookmark.
Add in some little start menu niceties, like news tickers, weather monitors, system monitors (and I mean ones where you can tell what's going on from a glance at the menu bar), controls for Media Player -- all of these are huge conveniences that I can no longer live without on my computer. Also, the option for multiple start menus.
Multiple desktops running simultaneously.
Multiple logins running simultaneously.
Easy-to-administer multiple user settings with vastly different permissions. The abililty to know that the short story I'm writing is readable only by me, and that my computer-illiterate friends or family can't accidentally delete system files, since they lack the permissions to do so. Come to think of it, the same permissions to prevent me from accidentally doing the same thing! (Power on the command line comes with the price that a single keystroke can be your downfall.)
I hinted at this above, but regular expression searching in Microsoft Word and Excel -- especially for search and replace.
Indexed searching in Outlook, a la Ximian Evolution. Every time I search my e-mail for messages it takes five to ten minutes in Outlook -- this would be nearly instantaneous in Evolution.
Standards compliance. Java is useless if it isn't cross-platform. HTML should not be extended, except by the proper channels (that being the W3C), especially if your browser does not yet fully support standard HTML4+CSS2. Speaking as a web developer, Internet Explorer is often my biggest nightmare when making my web pages compatible with different browsers. The only browser that may give me more trouble is the horrible one integrated with Sun StarOffice.
Better documentation. Linux and most of its tools are extensively documented via the man pages and their respective home pages. Similar commands cross-reference each other frequently. If you aren't sure which command you are looking for, 'apropos' is a huge help. On Windows, command-line tools receive little if any documentation. The results of the<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/? switch, despite sometimes being too long to be browsable, are often lacking enough in detail to be helpful. Often, graphical tools are similarly lacking in useful documentation. Help is sometimes reduced to 'The CHROVSKY text box allows you to adjust the CHROVSKY' -- not particularly useful if you have no idea what a CHROVSKY is.
Hardware detection and installation. My USB Hard Drive-like devices installed with a simple addition of one line to a text file on Linux. Not very intuitive, but very easy once you are used to it. I have had these items for six months and Windows XP still has baloons popping up insisting that the devices were not installed -- which they were, several times in fact. The devices are in perfect working order on both systems, yet Windows keeps annoying me to tell me that things aren't fine, even though they are. This is incredibly annoying.
I love Gnome's ability to change your startup configuration by checking a box when you shut down, thus telling Gnome that you want the same programs to start up again when you come back. An excellent feature Windows could learn well from.
More powerful tools at the command line. Not just the shell itself (which I mentioned earlier), but some simple text processing tools, system monitors, etc. A few such tools do exist for Windows, but not many, and certainly not the ones that I use every day.
Diversity. Encourage multiple developers to try their own takes on the same software. Distribute multiple items that do the same job with Windows instead of developing your own competing version. Let the companies learn from each other's mistakes and create better products.
Okay, this isn't a Windows improvement, but just a note: MSN is horrifically frustrating. It seems to use a proprietary interface which I can't get to work under Linux (which led to my cancelling the service in favor of the far easier to use Earthlink). At the same time, my MSN e-mail account receives far more spam than all of my other e-mail accounts combined! (I'm talking about eight other accounts, some of which I have been using for years prior to getting MSN!) Forget spam filters, I want an e-mail account that isn't made as vulnerable to spam to begin with! Okay, just needed to get that out of my system... Not your fault; that's a different department (I think)...
16. List the top one or two improvements that you would like to see made to Linux.
A widely used database front end with the power of Microsoft Access.
Easier VPN setup.
Easier to use on laptops, and better ability to detect battery settings on same.
Greater hardware support for some devices.
Less cynical community.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;-)
----
I'm sure many will disagree with me on some of these points. But then again, I do tend to think that the whole point of Linux and OSS is people's need to be different from each other... ah, well...
With all this free marketing information we can be assured that the next version of windows will have more features which will appeal more to potential Linux users, which means that fewer people will switch to a non proprietary system.
MS is a company, it is accountable to MS shareholders, this is another way for them to find out how they can make more money because that is what a company is supposed to do. MS must look at the bottom line, doing something else would be wrong.
This survey is like the USSR asking the US (or the US asking the USSR) about the design of its weapons so that they can add their features to their own weapons.
What if we ask MS about its features, and what its customers like so that we can make Linux better, would they answer that survey?
The "program manager" is just a MS employee who is probably doing the best job he can, but the only survey suggestion I would send him is publish Windows under an OSI license, but by the time that happens I may have trouble compiling and running it on my quantum computer (too many bugs).
MS is a company, it is accountable to MS shareholders, this is another way for them to find out how they can make more money because that is what a company is supposed to do. MS must look at the bottom line, doing something else would be wrong.
This survey is like the USSR asking the US (or the US asking the USSR) about the design of its weapons so that they can add their features to their own weapons.
What if we ask MS about its features, and what its customers like so that we can make Linux better, would they answer that survey?
The "program manager" is just a MS employee who is probably doing the best job he can, but the only survey suggestion I would send him is publish Windows under an OSI license, but by the time that happens I may have trouble compiling and running it on my quantum computer (too many bugs).
This is a ridiculously hypocrotical attitude. The open source community is supposed to be about healthy competition freedom to choose your own system. Microsoft has as much right to improve their system as anyone else does, and people still have the right to choose that system. In my opinion, choosing Microsoft is a mistake, but it is still people's choice to make. If Linux thrives, it needs to be through its own innovation, not by the stifling of the competition. I would think more people from the open source community would realize this and take the higher ground instead of sinking to Microsoft's level.
The open source community is supposed to be about healthy competition freedom to choose your own system. Microsoft has as much right to improve their system as anyone else does, and people still have the right to choose that system.
And the people who use free open source software also have the right to choose not to participate in a survey directed at them by a company that is bent on destroying their environment.
If Linux thrives, it needs to be through its own innovation, not by the stifling of the competition.
It is not a question of if. Free open source software is already thriving because of its innovation and high quality. And, anyways, free open source software is not really about competition in the sense of marketplace competition. It is about freedom of choice, freedom of code and having some fun. No marketplace stifling here.
I would think more people from the open source community would realize this and take the higher ground instead of sinking to Microsoft's level.
We already claim the higher ground so we don't need no stinkin' surveys. Filling out this silly survey, however, is sinking to Microsoft's level.
The Best and Effective answer of the Survey!
Posted by: Anonymous Coward on December 22, 2003 07:48 PM
What other operating system do you use at home?
Dos Ver -10,000,000 x 1000.
List the top one or two possible improvements that you would like to see made to Windows.
First:
Stop convincing people, that windows is a best os.
It is just a GUI(Graphical User Interface) ok.
Your Kernel is just still damn DOS(Disk Operating System), I think your software enggineers
(Designers of Windows) are more stupid. Replace them with the best one. Paying them too much price(salary), with still low quality of IQ with a highest grade of negative 10,000,000 x 1000 points of low quality of IQ(once again). Replace them.
My Tips:Try Asian People!They are one of the Best!
Second:
Why is it that your DOS(Disk Operating System) are not Standardized long,long,long ago After Linux was born. Your Dos(Disk Operating System)is Not "Being Developed" which is your primary OS in your Company. All of the "Microsoft people" are the lowest low Quality IQ than there Software Engineers. Replace them(including "You", no exemption please and no excusses).
List the top one or two improvements that you would like to see made to Linux.
First:
Microsoft should sell and support Linux(your own vesion) with a price less than windows.
Second:
That Linux will rule and Linux Will close the windows(including the Big Gates).
Please list your e-mail address if you don't mind answering follow-up questions. Your e-mail address will only be used for follow-up on this survey.
BillGates@hotmail.com
Dos Ver -10,000,000 x 1000.
List the top one or two possible improvements that you would like to see made to Windows.
First:
Stop convincing people, that windows is a best os.
It is just a GUI(Graphical User Interface) ok.
Your Kernel is just still damn DOS(Disk Operating System), I think your software enggineers
(Designers of Windows) are more stupid. Replace them with the best one. Paying them too much price(salary), with still low quality of IQ with a highest grade of negative 10,000,000 x 1000 points of low quality of IQ(once again). Replace them.
My Tips:Try Asian People!They are one of the Best!
Second:
Why is it that your DOS(Disk Operating System) are not Standardized long,long,long ago After Linux was born. Your Dos(Disk Operating System)is Not "Being Developed" which is your primary OS in your Company. All of the "Microsoft people" are the lowest low Quality IQ than there Software Engineers. Replace them(including "You", no exemption please and no excusses).
List the top one or two improvements that you would like to see made to Linux.
First:
Microsoft should sell and support Linux(your own vesion) with a price less than windows.
Second:
That Linux will rule and Linux Will close the windows(including the Big Gates).
Please list your e-mail address if you don't mind answering follow-up questions. Your e-mail address will only be used for follow-up on this survey.
BillGates@hotmail.com
I tried to access the survey, but it took too long to keep cancelling the access warnings from ZoneAlarm, so I gave up.
I don't know what the questions are, but ...
Posted by: Anonymous Coward on December 22, 2003 08:39 PM
I have one good advise for them right off the bat: Stop requiring Javascript in your surveys<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-)
it wont be possible for microsoft to gain any business from me or my organisation. I recommend new users tackle Linux as it is easier to learn and is immediately several time more powerful and secure than any windows version to date. I refuse to be dictated on how and what I can do with my hardware and be forced to pay ungodly amounts of money to keep my business running on the latest operating systems when a better free open source highly customizable solution is available. The days of Linux being difficult to work with passed many years ago and its about time people took action and sent monopoly companies like microsoft out of business. Support for Linux is outstanding and best of all free as there are literally thousands of Linux users willing to help others newbie or pro solve any problem encountered with the operating system. A multicrashing unoperating system such as windoze has no place in a professional high availability environment you will simply be throwing money at a company that is selling packaged bugs and security flaws in a box. Say no to microsoft and its survey your only giving them ammo to use against Linux since they cant compete fairly with a professional operating system.
15. List the top one or two possible improvements
Posted by: louiscypher on December 22, 2003 08:46 PM
I really tried to answer question #15, forgive the honesty and length:
Multiple Desktops (>= 4)
Log security/system errors + email to $USER_DEFINED @ levels that make sense (current event viewer extremely poor by Linux comparison).
Kernel resident in RAM, NEVER flush to pagefile (this is completely beyond me how stupid the arch decisions for NT - 2003 is) Pagefile to separate partition by default please!
NEVER cache >= 10 DLL's to disk-- are MS programmerz high? Using PIO access to HD as default, then caching to disk, fucking what was that?!?
Get drivers out of Admin and into User space; stop default GUI
Show ALL running procs, NO hidden 'services'
Command line server/services - No 'services' without full command line access
SSH/VNC style access to workstation out of the box
Clean gui firewall valid over multi NICs
Secure or dump IE
Patches in 24 hrs or , MS looks bad compared to Linux, fsck the FUD, if LX clowns can do it for free, MS needs to do it faster, without lying about it. (Claiming faster patches because it's 'illegal' to post holes is suicidal. MS has always been the largest security threat to any business I've worked for.)
Stop the forced advertising, pop up windows should be opted out by default; prediction-they will soon be illegal.
No encryption of filesystem(s) by default-- make users opt into this one, or be prepared for hellfire and brimstone lawsuits.
Adopt Linux as your kernel and stop wasting money on LongHorn.
Redesign questionnaire in such a fashion that Linux is understood to be a kernel, not confused with a distribution.
Multiple Desktops (>= 4)
Log security/system errors + email to $USER_DEFINED @ levels that make sense (current event viewer extremely poor by Linux comparison).
Kernel resident in RAM, NEVER flush to pagefile (this is completely beyond me how stupid the arch decisions for NT - 2003 is) Pagefile to separate partition by default please!
NEVER cache >= 10 DLL's to disk-- are MS programmerz high? Using PIO access to HD as default, then caching to disk, fucking what was that?!?
Get drivers out of Admin and into User space; stop default GUI
Show ALL running procs, NO hidden 'services'
Command line server/services - No 'services' without full command line access
SSH/VNC style access to workstation out of the box
Clean gui firewall valid over multi NICs
Secure or dump IE
Patches in 24 hrs or , MS looks bad compared to Linux, fsck the FUD, if LX clowns can do it for free, MS needs to do it faster, without lying about it. (Claiming faster patches because it's 'illegal' to post holes is suicidal. MS has always been the largest security threat to any business I've worked for.)
Stop the forced advertising, pop up windows should be opted out by default; prediction-they will soon be illegal.
No encryption of filesystem(s) by default-- make users opt into this one, or be prepared for hellfire and brimstone lawsuits.
Adopt Linux as your kernel and stop wasting money on LongHorn.
Redesign questionnaire in such a fashion that Linux is understood to be a kernel, not confused with a distribution.
My two problems with Windows;
Linux has tabbed EVERYTHING. The text editor does tabbed browsing. The web browser does it. The whole desktop does it. I find it extermely useful for efficiency. Windows does not do it, as far as I know...
And Linux has Gimp. Gimp does not work well at all in Windows! Unfortunatly, this is no fault of Microsoft and not something they can fix.
Linux problems;
3rd party anything is a bitch to install.
And it doesn't work with my scanner. I worked around THAT by learning to draw with the mouse. Then again, that's good... I can draw a lot better now and it doesn't hurt my arm like that lightbox did...
(The comic on my website is made entirely in Linux, drawn by mouse in Gimp, with backgrounds rendered in Blender.)
---
Yeah, I'd try to keep this civil. They want ways to improve their software, and I can't complain.
It's about Freedom, Competition, and... Yeah. We gotta have competition! It makes things more fun!
---
I told them I have no moral objections, no distrust for Microsoft, no problem giving them money except that I don't have it.
I am a desktop Linux user who uses a computer for art, web and porn stuff, for completely 100% utilitarian reasons... Yup.
Linux has tabbed EVERYTHING. The text editor does tabbed browsing. The web browser does it. The whole desktop does it. I find it extermely useful for efficiency. Windows does not do it, as far as I know...
And Linux has Gimp. Gimp does not work well at all in Windows! Unfortunatly, this is no fault of Microsoft and not something they can fix.
Linux problems;
3rd party anything is a bitch to install.
And it doesn't work with my scanner. I worked around THAT by learning to draw with the mouse. Then again, that's good... I can draw a lot better now and it doesn't hurt my arm like that lightbox did...
(The comic on my website is made entirely in Linux, drawn by mouse in Gimp, with backgrounds rendered in Blender.)
---
Yeah, I'd try to keep this civil. They want ways to improve their software, and I can't complain.
It's about Freedom, Competition, and... Yeah. We gotta have competition! It makes things more fun!
---
I told them I have no moral objections, no distrust for Microsoft, no problem giving them money except that I don't have it.
I am a desktop Linux user who uses a computer for art, web and porn stuff, for completely 100% utilitarian reasons... Yup.
You think this actually came from someone at MS? And that the site running the survey is connected to MS?
Sorry, unless I saw headers from the original e-mail request proving otherwise, I don't believe it. Note the URL of the survey site. Here are the whois results:
OrgName: Berbee Information Networks Corporation
OrgID: BINC
Address: 455 Science Drive
City: Madison
StateProv: WI
PostalCode: 53711
Country: US
NetRange: 64.73.0.0 - 64.73.191.255
CIDR: 64.73.0.0/17, 64.73.128.0/18
NetName: BINC-BLK-1
NetHandle: NET-64-73-0-0-1
Parent: NET-64-0-0-0-0
NetType: Direct Allocation
NameServer: NS1.BINC.NET
NameServer: NS2.BINC.NET
Comment: ADDRESSES WITHIN THIS BLOCK ARE NON-PORTABLE
RegDate: 2000-03-31
Updated: 2002-06-19
TechHandle: JS180-ARIN
TechName: Stahr, James
TechPhone: +1-608-288-3000
TechEmail: stahr@binc.net
So, are these guys doing the survey for MS, or someone else? Poor as they may be at graphic design, have you ever seen such an amateurish MS site?
How much disk does it have?
Well, between 100 and 150GB.
What OS was it shipped with?
xboxdash.xbe
Oh, the irony...<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)
Well, between 100 and 150GB.
What OS was it shipped with?
xboxdash.xbe
Oh, the irony...<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)
The most important (IMHO) thing that I put on my survey answers was that Windows includes way too much feature bloat. With Linux, I can install the kernel and add exactly what I need and leave out what I don't need. Most of the servers I administer run headless, so I leave off XWindows and get along just fine with an ssh connection. I *really* like that the config files are plain text because I can easily edit/backup/restore/cvs them in seconds with vi and friends.
9. What region are you from?
USA/Canada
Africa
Asia
Europe
Middle East
South America
Caribbean
Mexico/Central America
HHHMMM, let me see, I live in Australia, so which region do I pick ??
If they can't get a simple region choice correct, what's their software like ?
USA/Canada
Africa
Asia
Europe
Middle East
South America
Caribbean
Mexico/Central America
HHHMMM, let me see, I live in Australia, so which region do I pick ??
If they can't get a simple region choice correct, what's their software like ?
Windows should ASK before overwriting boot sector!
Posted by: Anonymous Coward on December 22, 2003 11:52 PM
One improvement to Windows I would suggest is in my subject line. If I want a machine to dual-boot (I've had a couple set up that way.) I have to install Windows first, then Linux. After that I cannot update Windows without re-installing Linux too. MS should understand that as good as they make their product they are not the only game in town and that some users will want to have a computer that runs more than one OS. Linux understands that, Windows does not.
Linux supplies me with lots of free development tools. MS used to supply a BASIC interpreter, but now that is gone. How about including a command-line C/C++ compiler like gcc? If you had that you could get lots of open source developers interested in Windows as a platform, because they could distribute their work as source.
I like all of the choices in window management I get with Linux. I especially like WindowMaker. Consider writing additional window managers for Windows, or documenting a way for others to do this.
I like the way GNUstep and other NeXT-emulating components do scrollbars. Why not make scrollbars like that an option for Windows?
Linux supplies me with lots of free development tools. MS used to supply a BASIC interpreter, but now that is gone. How about including a command-line C/C++ compiler like gcc? If you had that you could get lots of open source developers interested in Windows as a platform, because they could distribute their work as source.
I like all of the choices in window management I get with Linux. I especially like WindowMaker. Consider writing additional window managers for Windows, or documenting a way for others to do this.
I like the way GNUstep and other NeXT-emulating components do scrollbars. Why not make scrollbars like that an option for Windows?
Well, Microsoft could just can the entirety of Windows and start over from scratch using a *nix kernel like Apple did<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... that might fix a couple of problems.
Actually, until Microsoft cans the entirety of upper management though, they can't win me back.
A combination of Windows and Office costs more than $500, and should be purchased at least every other year to be 'current'. Lowering the price by about $400 would be a fair start.
Dumping product activation and supporting legacy software would be another suggestion. Microsoft has removed ALL notice, mention, knowledge base articles, download support, etc for all their software which predates Windows 98/Office 97, both of which will themselves be deltree'd in January of 2004.
So tell me, what can I expect when the Windows XP and Office product activation servers are taken offline in 2007?
I won't spend a dime purchasing software from a company that extorts 85% of an application's value bi-annually, then insults me by requiring I provide proof I didn't steal it.
Of course, the great irony is that Microsoft got it's start by selling stolen software. How much of CP/M and DR-DOS was actually in MS-DOS anyway? How big was that settlement with Caldera?
Actually, until Microsoft cans the entirety of upper management though, they can't win me back.
A combination of Windows and Office costs more than $500, and should be purchased at least every other year to be 'current'. Lowering the price by about $400 would be a fair start.
Dumping product activation and supporting legacy software would be another suggestion. Microsoft has removed ALL notice, mention, knowledge base articles, download support, etc for all their software which predates Windows 98/Office 97, both of which will themselves be deltree'd in January of 2004.
So tell me, what can I expect when the Windows XP and Office product activation servers are taken offline in 2007?
I won't spend a dime purchasing software from a company that extorts 85% of an application's value bi-annually, then insults me by requiring I provide proof I didn't steal it.
Of course, the great irony is that Microsoft got it's start by selling stolen software. How much of CP/M and DR-DOS was actually in MS-DOS anyway? How big was that settlement with Caldera?
After stating "I don't trust MicroSoft" as one of my "Very Important" responses in Q.11, I answered Q's 15 & 17 like this:
15. List the top one or two possible improvements that you would like to see made to Windows.
More friendly licensing (To address families/housholds and folks with multiple machines)
More interoperability with other OS's/Apps (Why does EVERYTHING MS does HAVE to be proprietary in some way - even when implementing a published standard?! If there's any loop-hole in a standard, MS will always exploit it to force customer lock-in w/ other MS products.)
17. Please list your e-mail address if you don't mind answering follow-up questions. Your e-mail address will only be used for follow-up on this survey.
Unfortunately, as I stated above, I don't trust MicroSoft, therefore I won't provide this information. (If I did, I could imagine getting a c&d letter from SCO next month.)
15. List the top one or two possible improvements that you would like to see made to Windows.
More friendly licensing (To address families/housholds and folks with multiple machines)
More interoperability with other OS's/Apps (Why does EVERYTHING MS does HAVE to be proprietary in some way - even when implementing a published standard?! If there's any loop-hole in a standard, MS will always exploit it to force customer lock-in w/ other MS products.)
17. Please list your e-mail address if you don't mind answering follow-up questions. Your e-mail address will only be used for follow-up on this survey.
Unfortunately, as I stated above, I don't trust MicroSoft, therefore I won't provide this information. (If I did, I could imagine getting a c&d letter from SCO next month.)
I just want to ask all to ignore this survey.
What exactly is the Windows 'registry' supposed to _do_ dear Microsoft?
This is easily the most asinine concept of any OS in history, ever.
In Win 3.x, the registry was a simple store of the UI application to file extension maps. Who should be shot for deciding, "Hey, let's put EVERYTHING in there!"
From boot sequence control, to UI layout, to install data, to runtime data, to license keys, to Minesweeper times, it's ALL IN THERE.
Geez, talk about putting all your eggs in one basket.
Someday, maybe we'll have a Microsoft Linux, and everyone can then recognize the wisdom of trunking everything in<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/boot,<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/etc, and<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/lib together into one or two binary files named major-os-design-flaw.dat
I'll go fill out that survey as soon as I get done appending my best Frozen Bubble scores to rc.local, because that's so clearly the best place to store it!
This is easily the most asinine concept of any OS in history, ever.
In Win 3.x, the registry was a simple store of the UI application to file extension maps. Who should be shot for deciding, "Hey, let's put EVERYTHING in there!"
From boot sequence control, to UI layout, to install data, to runtime data, to license keys, to Minesweeper times, it's ALL IN THERE.
Geez, talk about putting all your eggs in one basket.
Someday, maybe we'll have a Microsoft Linux, and everyone can then recognize the wisdom of trunking everything in<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/boot,<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/etc, and<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/lib together into one or two binary files named major-os-design-flaw.dat
I'll go fill out that survey as soon as I get done appending my best Frozen Bubble scores to rc.local, because that's so clearly the best place to store it!
The registry: Great idea, bad implementation
Posted by: Anonymous Coward on December 23, 2003 08:48 PM
While I do like the Unix-way better, and Apple's take on it is quite good, the registry is a good idea with a bad implementation. It's kind of a combo<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/proc and<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/etc, and can be somewhat scripted.
That said, all my personal systems run Linux or another form of *nix. The Windows systems I use soak up vast amounts of effort at work -- usually on many "problems" that don't exist under *nix or aren't much of an issue.
That said, all my personal systems run Linux or another form of *nix. The Windows systems I use soak up vast amounts of effort at work -- usually on many "problems" that don't exist under *nix or aren't much of an issue.
1. What best describes your Linux knowledge level?
Intermediate
Tempting to write advanced, but this is Linux, not Windows. What I mean is it was potentially expensive/impossible to learn as much as I wanted to about the ways in which Windows works. Learning everything about Linux is free.
2. How long have you used Linux?
4-6 months
3. Do people ask you for Linux advice?
Yes
One person has asked me for UNIX advice. Same difference.
4. What best describes the kind of Linux user you are?
Hobbyist
5. Please describe your primary home Linux machine.
15" CRT, 192MB, Intel, 667Mhz, 1, 10GB, 0 to 6 months
Also a 3GB hard drive with Windows 95 on it.
6. What OS came with your primary Linux system when you got it?
Windows 98/SE
It had screwed itself up, which is why I got the computer in the first place.
7. What kind of network connectivity do you use for your home Linux machine?
dial-up modem, 802.11b
The 802.11b will happen once the device I ordered arrives. In college I use Ethernet.
8. What is the primary Linux distribution you use?
Knoppix
I used it off the CD for a couple of weeks, then I installed it.
9. What region are you from?
Europe
10. Who would you recommend use Linux at home?
Everyone
11. Rank the reasons you like Linux for the home.
I'm just going to list the ones I find important:
Its cheaper - The price of a CD and some RAM.
Ability to run on old hardware - And new hardware. My (legal, with certificate and everything) copy of Windows 95 won't talk to my i740.
More secure than Windows - I recently had to reinstall Windows Me on my sister's computer because of some malware which had come in via Internet Explorer.
Better install and uninstall of additional software
Better scripting - Windows scripting was never good enough for any proper work.
Better command line
Access to source code - Is this open-source program going to do bad things to my computer? Let's check the source code.
Easier to customize exactly how I want it
Better reliability - The kernel hasn't crashed once.
I don't trust Microsoft
12. Rank the importance of various tasks you use your home Linux system for.
Again, just the important ones:
E-mail
Web browsing
Programming - This is the main thing which I do to use up my spare time.
Other - Listening to music, sometimes making music.
13. What other operating system do you use at home?
Windows 95
Windows ME
Windows XP
Windows 95 only gets used via WINE to run Cool Edit 96.
14. Do you dual boot between different operating systems on your primary home Linux PC?
No
Although it's set up to do so. I leave Linux always-on, because I can.
15. List the top one or two possible improvements that you would like to see made to Windows.
I can't be bothered to do a brainstorm right now. Another post reminded me about the registry and how its absence (including the backup) forced me to do a reinstall one time.
16. List the top one or two improvements that you would like to see made to Linux.
If a piece of hardware has a driver for any OS, it should have a Linux driver too. Moreover, the Linux driver should be open source.
Intermediate
Tempting to write advanced, but this is Linux, not Windows. What I mean is it was potentially expensive/impossible to learn as much as I wanted to about the ways in which Windows works. Learning everything about Linux is free.
2. How long have you used Linux?
4-6 months
3. Do people ask you for Linux advice?
Yes
One person has asked me for UNIX advice. Same difference.
4. What best describes the kind of Linux user you are?
Hobbyist
5. Please describe your primary home Linux machine.
15" CRT, 192MB, Intel, 667Mhz, 1, 10GB, 0 to 6 months
Also a 3GB hard drive with Windows 95 on it.
6. What OS came with your primary Linux system when you got it?
Windows 98/SE
It had screwed itself up, which is why I got the computer in the first place.
7. What kind of network connectivity do you use for your home Linux machine?
dial-up modem, 802.11b
The 802.11b will happen once the device I ordered arrives. In college I use Ethernet.
8. What is the primary Linux distribution you use?
Knoppix
I used it off the CD for a couple of weeks, then I installed it.
9. What region are you from?
Europe
10. Who would you recommend use Linux at home?
Everyone
11. Rank the reasons you like Linux for the home.
I'm just going to list the ones I find important:
Its cheaper - The price of a CD and some RAM.
Ability to run on old hardware - And new hardware. My (legal, with certificate and everything) copy of Windows 95 won't talk to my i740.
More secure than Windows - I recently had to reinstall Windows Me on my sister's computer because of some malware which had come in via Internet Explorer.
Better install and uninstall of additional software
Better scripting - Windows scripting was never good enough for any proper work.
Better command line
Access to source code - Is this open-source program going to do bad things to my computer? Let's check the source code.
Easier to customize exactly how I want it
Better reliability - The kernel hasn't crashed once.
I don't trust Microsoft
12. Rank the importance of various tasks you use your home Linux system for.
Again, just the important ones:
Web browsing
Programming - This is the main thing which I do to use up my spare time.
Other - Listening to music, sometimes making music.
13. What other operating system do you use at home?
Windows 95
Windows ME
Windows XP
Windows 95 only gets used via WINE to run Cool Edit 96.
14. Do you dual boot between different operating systems on your primary home Linux PC?
No
Although it's set up to do so. I leave Linux always-on, because I can.
15. List the top one or two possible improvements that you would like to see made to Windows.
I can't be bothered to do a brainstorm right now. Another post reminded me about the registry and how its absence (including the backup) forced me to do a reinstall one time.
16. List the top one or two improvements that you would like to see made to Linux.
If a piece of hardware has a driver for any OS, it should have a Linux driver too. Moreover, the Linux driver should be open source.
Better shell and shell tools. Some things always will be easier to do from the command line. More configuration of the system from text files.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;-) A '/etc' would be really nice... Would make it real easy to recover a windows system. BOOTABLE, read-only windows CD that could be used to recover or at least save data, from a ruined windows install. This alone would be HUGE for windows...
Why give MS ideas for free when they charge us?
Posted by: Anonymous Coward on December 23, 2003 03:18 AM
Why would any Linux user give Microsoft this feedback for free. If you want to use their OS, you have to pay dearly for it. Why should open source officianados give up their design ideas to MS for free.
Wow, Microsoft asking for SUGGESTIONS?!
Won't take long for them to trash the whole thing and ignore it, I bet. They won't really do anything about it...
That said, my "top one or two possible improvements that you would like to see made to Windows" were "Start over from the beginning, rebuild the system (operation is too tangled and messy, old and new ideas mixed up); and no restrictive lisencing/forced registration."
My "one or two improvements that you would like to see made to Linux" was "Better commercial software support."
Happy holidays all!
Won't take long for them to trash the whole thing and ignore it, I bet. They won't really do anything about it...
That said, my "top one or two possible improvements that you would like to see made to Windows" were "Start over from the beginning, rebuild the system (operation is too tangled and messy, old and new ideas mixed up); and no restrictive lisencing/forced registration."
My "one or two improvements that you would like to see made to Linux" was "Better commercial software support."
Happy holidays all!
Linux has open standards and better documentation. I'd like the security and documentation to be more like OpenBSD, (esp in reguards to integrated crypto, and buffer overflow protection).
I find that my Unix knowledge does not transfer to Windows and administering clients is very difficult.
I find that my Unix knowledge does not transfer to Windows and administering clients is very difficult.
Did anyone look into Mr. Surkan?? Don't you know who you are dealing with?? My gosh.. it's not like this person has tried to conceal his handiwork....
Filling out this survey IN ANY WAY (really doesn't matter) only gives Microsoft AMMUNITION to use with potential customers or customers who are moving to Linux.
I'd say that each survey answered is about as effective as writing and sending Microsoft a check for $10000.
I guess Linux users must really, really be Microsoft fans at heart. Personally, I will never go back to Redmond and I certainly won't fund their efforts to pursuade others to go back.
Filling out this survey IN ANY WAY (really doesn't matter) only gives Microsoft AMMUNITION to use with potential customers or customers who are moving to Linux.
I'd say that each survey answered is about as effective as writing and sending Microsoft a check for $10000.
I guess Linux users must really, really be Microsoft fans at heart. Personally, I will never go back to Redmond and I certainly won't fund their efforts to pursuade others to go back.
Re:Easier to just put a gun to your head folks
Posted by: Anonymous Coward on December 23, 2003 07:33 PM
Nah.
Half of the people filling it in seriously and the other half of them telling to RTFM and GPL windows will seriously screw up the opportunity to get good results for this.
What they do have, is an indication and a general impression of the Linux crowd towards Windoze. But of that, forums are full. I don't really get it.
That said, when is someone finally going to check with the sources of this poll !?
Half of the people filling it in seriously and the other half of them telling to RTFM and GPL windows will seriously screw up the opportunity to get good results for this.
What they do have, is an indication and a general impression of the Linux crowd towards Windoze. But of that, forums are full. I don't really get it.
That said, when is someone finally going to check with the sources of this poll !?
here were my answers for a intermediate to advanced linux user of 6+ years.
Home:
windows improvements: (sorry more then 2)
Less bloat. be in control of real processes. Able to open programs without waiting forever or buying more memory then a large office had 2 years ago. Programs that don't stay open just in case I want to open them. Not having to pay an extrodinary amount of money for an upgrade just to keep be able to communicate with others that already did (in short sticking with a standard and not changing it to make a buck).
Linux improvments:
better gui controls of services.(its improving every day) More information given out to the windows users of the world. (again getting better every day)
pretty much the same for work except I used a lot more services then I do at home.
Home:
windows improvements: (sorry more then 2)
Less bloat. be in control of real processes. Able to open programs without waiting forever or buying more memory then a large office had 2 years ago. Programs that don't stay open just in case I want to open them. Not having to pay an extrodinary amount of money for an upgrade just to keep be able to communicate with others that already did (in short sticking with a standard and not changing it to make a buck).
Linux improvments:
better gui controls of services.(its improving every day) More information given out to the windows users of the world. (again getting better every day)
pretty much the same for work except I used a lot more services then I do at home.
If you like Linux, the best thing you can do is NOT answer the survey ffs.
Free market information for m$? Yeah good work!
Free market information for m$? Yeah good work!
What needs to improve for Windows?
1. More customization. Do not assume what people want. Let people enable each feature individually.
2. Cheaper server software for home users. Essentially, I only need roaming profiles, firewall, and router feautres.
What needs to improve for Linux?
1. Improve streaming video support.
2. A unified way of configuring Linux accross multiple distributions. Or a single utility that handles all the configurations from drivers loading, firewall settings, X-windows configurations.
Why I answer the survey?
I firmly believe in compeition in either open source for commercial software. By helping Microsoft's survey, I am hoping to create a better competition. Believe it or not, Linux did copy quite a few features from Microsoft. The key thing is to evolve beyound what you copied and move on with better product. A dead Microsoft is not benefitial to all of us. You inevitably create another monopoly in software. Even if the monopoly is an open sourced one, a monopoly creates stagnation.
from Henry Yao
1. More customization. Do not assume what people want. Let people enable each feature individually.
2. Cheaper server software for home users. Essentially, I only need roaming profiles, firewall, and router feautres.
What needs to improve for Linux?
1. Improve streaming video support.
2. A unified way of configuring Linux accross multiple distributions. Or a single utility that handles all the configurations from drivers loading, firewall settings, X-windows configurations.
Why I answer the survey?
I firmly believe in compeition in either open source for commercial software. By helping Microsoft's survey, I am hoping to create a better competition. Believe it or not, Linux did copy quite a few features from Microsoft. The key thing is to evolve beyound what you copied and move on with better product. A dead Microsoft is not benefitial to all of us. You inevitably create another monopoly in software. Even if the monopoly is an open sourced one, a monopoly creates stagnation.
from Henry Yao
First I should note that I think this poll is a good idea on part of Microsoft and I'm gladly filling it. It's paranoia to think that filling it would benefit us in our "war" against Microsoft in some way. This is not the case, because with the answers it is possible that the Windows environment will become more Linux-like and in order to have a strong Linux, we are better have having a strong competition.
So without further ado: here goes:
Linux knowledge: Expert (well, the baker cannot testify for his dough, but I think I can safely say that).
How long: more than 2 years.
Do people ask you for advice: yes.
Kind of Linux user: Developer.
Primary Home Linux Machine: 2.4 GHz P4, with a 17" monitor, 512 MB of RAM, and 2*80GB hard-disks.
OS that came with the computer: Windows 98
Connectivity: ADSL/Ethernet
Distro: at home - Mandrake, at work (or more accurately School) - RedHat.
Region: Middle East.
Recommend use Linux at home: Everyone (with the option of dual-boot, of course)
Important Reasons: it's cheaper, more free add-on software, more secure (partial), want to get more Linux experience to help my career (a side benefit - I just like working on Linux), Better Scripting, Better Command Line, Linux Community Support, Better reliability, Easier to customize to how I want
(all in all - a much better working experience)
Using my home system for: programming, word-processing and typesetting, Samba File server (even though the dual-booted Windows 95 is adequate as well for that), web browsing, E-mail. It's my default system.
Other operating systems at home: Win95, WinXP.
Do you dual-boot: yes.
Things to add to Windows: Virtual Workspaces; Complete UNIX compatibility.
Things to add to Linux: Hebrew support in DocBook/XML. Better Open-source office suites. (I was instructed to only list two)
All in all, this survey seems nice but unsatisfying. I'm not sure I was able to convey the reasons I like Linux so much, or why I'm still finding myself using Windows. But who is John Galt?
- It's paranoia to think that filling it would benefit us in our "war" against Microsoft in some way.
It's not paranoia, and it's not some kind of childish "war", it is quite serious.
I've been in companies who partnered with Microsoft; they pay very little if they OEM software, are silent on the "partnership" doing nothing to promote it, rebrand tech that isn't even thiers, and eventually either buy out or replace anyone who offers a product that even marginally competes with them. These are facts.
When Microsoft asks for help, they aren't doing so to listen to you or to eventually help you in any way shape or form. They aren't doing it because they are nice.
That said, large companies (and many small ones) also act like this. The main difference is that Microsoft is even less motivated to do the right thing when compared to most other companies; they really don't have to!
If you've been around this industry for a dozen years, most or all of this should be obvious to you. With all that in mind, why spend a second helping a mega corporation in filling this out? Why waste your time on such an untrustworthy company when they aren't going to come through _for_ you?
Microsoft was unintentionally self-disclosive in its survey.
Their big insecurity lives in a few limited areas. They are afraid of linux server. They are afraid of linux as a Image capture/ editing / publishing tool. They are trying to subtly market through the quesions:
would you like cheap os with expensive support or expensive os with cheap support... loaded question.
If I were a linux distro trying to use MS to hurt itself I would make an easy to use open source clustering server that could run on pentium IIs. I would give it a few services it could run like firewall, directory service, maybe open-enterprise server.
If I had a few million bucks Id give it to Suse to make better OpenEnterprise-like software.
-mike
Their big insecurity lives in a few limited areas. They are afraid of linux server. They are afraid of linux as a Image capture/ editing / publishing tool. They are trying to subtly market through the quesions:
would you like cheap os with expensive support or expensive os with cheap support... loaded question.
If I were a linux distro trying to use MS to hurt itself I would make an easy to use open source clustering server that could run on pentium IIs. I would give it a few services it could run like firewall, directory service, maybe open-enterprise server.
If I had a few million bucks Id give it to Suse to make better OpenEnterprise-like software.
-mike
I'm serious folks, don't go anywhere near this survey.
Let's not be naive: The purpose is not to magically change Microsoft to be the good kind big brother we never had, their objective is to tailor the anti-Linux propaganda campaigns to sway more Linux-leaning Windows-customers back into the fold.
Let's not harbour any delusions here: This corporation hasn't changed, they haven't met Jesus in the elevator, the Buddha didn't just buy majority shares. They have zero intentions of changing the way they do busines.
This happened once before, back in 1988 or so, I remember it very clearly because back in those days you could still get personal conversations out of Redmond. Some guy (named Derrick?) was prodding the Usenet groups asking our input for the future DOS (6.0 I think). I wrote to him and said the answer was simple: Look at 4DOS and QEMM. Anyone who was serious about computing back then ran 4DOS instead of COMMAND.COM and QEMM instead of the disk-hazard EMM. More intelligent design, more reliable, better useability (swaps its image to disk while commands run, good command line history and editor, many things unix users will say "well da...")
Derrick wrote back within the day to thank me and to say that my recommendation was the number one most frequent suggestion.
But did they? No. Not a single feature of 4DOS or QEMM ever made it into Windows. Not even to this day if you ever have the joyous opportunity to boot into DOS-mode (oh, wait, I forgot, booting into DOS-mode is pretty much inevitable isn't it). Not a single frickin feature ever made it into DOS.
What they wanted from us was merely to identify the strengths of the competition for them so they could undermine the competition into oblivion. Both parent companies of QEMM and 4DOS are long, long gone, undermined, destroyed. Snuffed.
Which they did. Intentionally. Deliberately. Gleefully.
So<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... tell me: Why do you want to help them today? Why do their homework for them? If they want to know how to play nice, hey, they can ask any kindergarten kid and get the best advice they could ever learn.
Let's not be naive: The purpose is not to magically change Microsoft to be the good kind big brother we never had, their objective is to tailor the anti-Linux propaganda campaigns to sway more Linux-leaning Windows-customers back into the fold.
Let's not harbour any delusions here: This corporation hasn't changed, they haven't met Jesus in the elevator, the Buddha didn't just buy majority shares. They have zero intentions of changing the way they do busines.
They just want you to arm them with the right keywords so they can better tailor their spin campaign.I would love to be proven wrong, I really would. I'd love to see some convincing evidence that yes, the Great White Shark of Redmond has changed its spots ("Fish are our friends. Fish are not food") and really wants to now use it's monopoly power for the good of all mankind. I'd love to see that, but I just don't see it. I don't see it at all.
This happened once before, back in 1988 or so, I remember it very clearly because back in those days you could still get personal conversations out of Redmond. Some guy (named Derrick?) was prodding the Usenet groups asking our input for the future DOS (6.0 I think). I wrote to him and said the answer was simple: Look at 4DOS and QEMM. Anyone who was serious about computing back then ran 4DOS instead of COMMAND.COM and QEMM instead of the disk-hazard EMM. More intelligent design, more reliable, better useability (swaps its image to disk while commands run, good command line history and editor, many things unix users will say "well da...")
Derrick wrote back within the day to thank me and to say that my recommendation was the number one most frequent suggestion.
But did they? No. Not a single feature of 4DOS or QEMM ever made it into Windows. Not even to this day if you ever have the joyous opportunity to boot into DOS-mode (oh, wait, I forgot, booting into DOS-mode is pretty much inevitable isn't it). Not a single frickin feature ever made it into DOS.
What they wanted from us was merely to identify the strengths of the competition for them so they could undermine the competition into oblivion. Both parent companies of QEMM and 4DOS are long, long gone, undermined, destroyed. Snuffed.
Which they did. Intentionally. Deliberately. Gleefully.
So<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... tell me: Why do you want to help them today? Why do their homework for them? If they want to know how to play nice, hey, they can ask any kindergarten kid and get the best advice they could ever learn.
2+ yr intermediate hobbyist
Gentoo @home, Debian @work
I currently use a 2000+ Athlon XP
My main reasons for using Linux at home:
+ cheaper, & free add-on software
+ emerge & apt provide better software installation
+ no enforce license registration
+ better scripting / command line
+ I don't trust microsoft
My recommendations were fair, I thought:
+ include a better command-line, and a text-based scripting language installed by default, like python
What linux desktop needs:
+ More time to mature: better integration, better usability, and better reliability (desktop, not kernel)
Gentoo @home, Debian @work
I currently use a 2000+ Athlon XP
My main reasons for using Linux at home:
+ cheaper, & free add-on software
+ emerge & apt provide better software installation
+ no enforce license registration
+ better scripting / command line
+ I don't trust microsoft
My recommendations were fair, I thought:
+ include a better command-line, and a text-based scripting language installed by default, like python
What linux desktop needs:
+ More time to mature: better integration, better usability, and better reliability (desktop, not kernel)
(hey, the name Lindows is still being dragged through court, and they've lost once already)
but, winux is coming. and they'll port over ms-office, et al, and the corporate types will get all fuzzy inside because they'll be able to justify the expense (compatability, etc) and MS will finally have an OS that works.
maybe time to buy MSFT stock... (nasdaq)
but, winux is coming. and they'll port over ms-office, et al, and the corporate types will get all fuzzy inside because they'll be able to justify the expense (compatability, etc) and MS will finally have an OS that works.
maybe time to buy MSFT stock... (nasdaq)
Someone once made an apt comment about Windows. They said it was like going on a foreign holiday where after a few days it slowly dawns on you that everyone you meet, from the paper-seller and the waiter to the tour guide, is on the take and directing you to places where they'll receive a cut but which aren't necessarily in your best interests to visit. I use Linux to get away from all of this. There's more to life than salesmen and their tiresome little tricks.
15. List the top one or two possible improvements that you would like to see made to Windows.
c:\windows> del *.*
It's huge. Bloated. BSOD's, DLL errors, strange memory leaks to hex addresses you can't pin down, and the endless patches and security holes. Your O/S is a joke - and an expensive one at that.
And to the hapless support drone whose job it is to read these comments - Gates is worth 81 billion. Ballmer nearly as much so. Have you been to salary.com lately? Did you know that relative to your peers in the industry, Microsoft is underpaying you significantly? If you added Linux/Unix to your skill set, you'd be much more marketable, and then you could go to another company and earn what you're worth. Remember - you have nothing to lose but your chains.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)
16. List the top one or two improvements that you would like to see made to Linux.
None. Because if I want an improvement made to Linux - I'LL CODE IT MYSELF. Get it? No, you people will NEVER get it. And my friends will help me make any improvements to it that I can't figure out how to program myself. Leave our community alone. You'll always be able to sell to clueless idiots that don't mind mediocre software and overpriced useless support. Stop stealing other people's code and passing it off as your own. Stop the predatory business practices and the asinine licensing schemes.
18. List the top one or two improvements that you would like to see made to Linux.
BTW, on questions 10 & 11, you're wrong. Linux is both easy to set up and administer, AND low cost. You people STILL don't get it. Your product is overpriced, difficult to use, and has obnoxious licensing stipulations. Oh, well, I guess Microsoft people *would* find Linux products difficult. But the rest of us techies don't...<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;>
P.S.
Learn how to spell. It's Lycoris. Motorola. Sheesh.
Lastly, when asked for the email address? Use what I always do - spammesenseless@sittingduck.net. (hahahaha)
Don't give them real information... give them a piece of your mind.
c:\windows> del *.*
It's huge. Bloated. BSOD's, DLL errors, strange memory leaks to hex addresses you can't pin down, and the endless patches and security holes. Your O/S is a joke - and an expensive one at that.
And to the hapless support drone whose job it is to read these comments - Gates is worth 81 billion. Ballmer nearly as much so. Have you been to salary.com lately? Did you know that relative to your peers in the industry, Microsoft is underpaying you significantly? If you added Linux/Unix to your skill set, you'd be much more marketable, and then you could go to another company and earn what you're worth. Remember - you have nothing to lose but your chains.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)
16. List the top one or two improvements that you would like to see made to Linux.
None. Because if I want an improvement made to Linux - I'LL CODE IT MYSELF. Get it? No, you people will NEVER get it. And my friends will help me make any improvements to it that I can't figure out how to program myself. Leave our community alone. You'll always be able to sell to clueless idiots that don't mind mediocre software and overpriced useless support. Stop stealing other people's code and passing it off as your own. Stop the predatory business practices and the asinine licensing schemes.
18. List the top one or two improvements that you would like to see made to Linux.
BTW, on questions 10 & 11, you're wrong. Linux is both easy to set up and administer, AND low cost. You people STILL don't get it. Your product is overpriced, difficult to use, and has obnoxious licensing stipulations. Oh, well, I guess Microsoft people *would* find Linux products difficult. But the rest of us techies don't...<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;>
P.S.
Learn how to spell. It's Lycoris. Motorola. Sheesh.
Lastly, when asked for the email address? Use what I always do - spammesenseless@sittingduck.net. (hahahaha)
Don't give them real information... give them a piece of your mind.
I just switched four days ago from Windows 98 on my primary machine to a dual boot with Mandrake Linux where I'm running Linux 98% of the time (already!). The desupporting of Win98 was the final push to switch.
The immediate benefits of Linux that I see:
#1 - It is MY machine again! I'm not having problems with people trying to take control of it. Be it spyware (and constantly having to delete it). Or RealPlayer vs Microsoft Media trying to control how I view things (or the various other apps that fight each other). Or having to do things the way Microsoft believes I should do them.
#2 - Customization. I may not be able to do it all through a GUI, but I can customize the hell out of my Linux desktop. (Can I call it a workstation now?)
#3 - Escape from Microsoft. No longer am I tied to their fees and their way of doing things.
Immediate dislikes about using Linux:
#1 - Poor performance during heavy disk IO (like copying).
#2 - Not everything is available on Linux that I do on Windows. Most, but not all. The same would be true, though, if I had been doing Linux for years and I go back to Windows.
This Christmas vacation has been wonderful for making the switch. I'm 95% there. I just need to figure out why MAME doesn't play any sound. I think my built in sound card has (compatability?) problems. I can only play audio files, for example, if they are 16 bit signed. But I still am not sure why it is happening.
The immediate benefits of Linux that I see:
#1 - It is MY machine again! I'm not having problems with people trying to take control of it. Be it spyware (and constantly having to delete it). Or RealPlayer vs Microsoft Media trying to control how I view things (or the various other apps that fight each other). Or having to do things the way Microsoft believes I should do them.
#2 - Customization. I may not be able to do it all through a GUI, but I can customize the hell out of my Linux desktop. (Can I call it a workstation now?)
#3 - Escape from Microsoft. No longer am I tied to their fees and their way of doing things.
Immediate dislikes about using Linux:
#1 - Poor performance during heavy disk IO (like copying).
#2 - Not everything is available on Linux that I do on Windows. Most, but not all. The same would be true, though, if I had been doing Linux for years and I go back to Windows.
This Christmas vacation has been wonderful for making the switch. I'm 95% there. I just need to figure out why MAME doesn't play any sound. I think my built in sound card has (compatability?) problems. I can only play audio files, for example, if they are 16 bit signed. But I still am not sure why it is happening.
Linux Home User Questionnaire:
1. What best describes your Linux knowledge level?
Novice
2. How long have you used Linux?
0-3 months
3. Do people ask you for Linux advice?
No
4. What best describes the kind of Linux user you are?
Hobbyist
5. Please describe your primary home Linux machine.
Monitor: 15"
RAM: 512MB
CPU: AMD
Clock Speed: 1.53GHz (more than 1.1GHz)
# of CPUs: 1
HDD Space: 40GB
Length of ownership: 6 months - 1 year
6. What OS came with your primary Linux system when you got it?
Windows XP
7. What kind of network connectivity do you use for your home Linux machine?
describe how your home Linux machine connects to a network
connecting to internet: cable modem
connecting to home network: ethernet hub (well I use Switch)
8. What is the primary Linux distribution you use?
Red Hat (Fedora Core 1 actually, but Red Hat is close)
chose from: conectivia, debian, gentoo, knoppix, lycoiris,
mandrake, red hat, slackware, suse, TSL, turbolinux, yellow dog
9. What region are you from?
Middle East (Israel)
10. Who would you recommend use Linux at home?
Power users and Experts (might try it out)
and adventurous types
11. Rank the reasons you like Linux for the home.
(from 1 to 5; 1 = not important; 5 = very important)
a.Its cheaper 5
There is more free add-on software 1
Better gaming experience 1
Ability to run on old hardware 4
More secure than Windows 4
I want to get more Linux experience to help my career 4
No need to constantly keep installing updates and fixes 3
Integration with consumer electronics devices 1
Better performance than Windows 2
Easier to use than Windows 1
Easier to install than Windows 1
Better install and uninstall of additional software 1
No enforced license registration 5
Better scripting 4
Better command line 5
Better device and peripheral support 1
Access to source code 5
Easier to customize exactly how I want it 3
More intuitive, simpler to understand 1
Linux community support 5
Better reliability 4
The satisfaction of not giving Microsoft more money. 4
I don't trust Microsoft 3
I don't want to use proprietary software 4
I don't want to use commercial software 4
12. Rank the importance of various tasks you use your home Linux system for.
1= not important 5= very important N/A
Playing games 2
Hosting games N
Internet gateway 4
Firewall 5
A home file server 3
A home web server 3
Word processing 4
Spreadsheets 4
Databases N
E-mail 5
Web browsing 5
Home finances N
Programming 3
Desk Top Publishing N
Photo Editing 3
Video Editing 1
Recording live TV/ Video 1
Other N
13. What other operating system do you use at home?
Windows 98
Windows XP
DOS
14.Do you dual boot between different operating systems on your primary home Linux PC?
Yes
15. List the top one or two possible improvements that you would like to see made to Windows.
a) Command-Line support. (It's not-so-hard to implement "Restart in MS-DOS mode" is it?)
b) More networking features. (Ability to run diskless workstations, ability for manual DHCP tuning,<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...)
16. List the top one or two improvements that you would like to see made to Linux.
a) Make it more easier: Don't make users *MUST* enter passwords.
b) Easier GUI networking: (the Linux kernel, with most modules loaded is very powerful thing, but I was unable to easily turn Internet Connection Sharing on, not to mention, that there is NO way of knowing your IP from GUI in FC1)
c) improve hardware compatibility: in fact Linux's GUI crashes on VIA KM266 video card made me crazy... Linux needs hardware abstraction layer like Windows has of all unknown 2D cards, not to mention all the other hardware I can't make working...
17. Please list your e-mail address if you don't mind answering follow-up questions.
Your e-mail address will only be used for follow-up on this survey.
al305472@hotmail.co.il
Well, the truth is - no ideal OS exists -
I like OSS, but today my lovely OS is Windows XP, because Linux is way too difficult to learn, and operate.
On the other hand, I am successfully using OpenOffice, and very happy with it.
In computers I'm an advanced guy, but Linux is a new field for me.
I think that's fair enought, if I let my thoughts out to both the Linux community, and
MS - most likely - that both will hate be because of my stance, and point of view.
But feel free to eMail me anytime you want at: al305472@hotmail.co.il
1. What best describes your Linux knowledge level?
Novice
2. How long have you used Linux?
0-3 months
3. Do people ask you for Linux advice?
No
4. What best describes the kind of Linux user you are?
Hobbyist
5. Please describe your primary home Linux machine.
Monitor: 15"
RAM: 512MB
CPU: AMD
Clock Speed: 1.53GHz (more than 1.1GHz)
# of CPUs: 1
HDD Space: 40GB
Length of ownership: 6 months - 1 year
6. What OS came with your primary Linux system when you got it?
Windows XP
7. What kind of network connectivity do you use for your home Linux machine?
describe how your home Linux machine connects to a network
connecting to internet: cable modem
connecting to home network: ethernet hub (well I use Switch)
8. What is the primary Linux distribution you use?
Red Hat (Fedora Core 1 actually, but Red Hat is close)
chose from: conectivia, debian, gentoo, knoppix, lycoiris,
mandrake, red hat, slackware, suse, TSL, turbolinux, yellow dog
9. What region are you from?
Middle East (Israel)
10. Who would you recommend use Linux at home?
Power users and Experts (might try it out)
and adventurous types
11. Rank the reasons you like Linux for the home.
(from 1 to 5; 1 = not important; 5 = very important)
a.Its cheaper 5
There is more free add-on software 1
Better gaming experience 1
Ability to run on old hardware 4
More secure than Windows 4
I want to get more Linux experience to help my career 4
No need to constantly keep installing updates and fixes 3
Integration with consumer electronics devices 1
Better performance than Windows 2
Easier to use than Windows 1
Easier to install than Windows 1
Better install and uninstall of additional software 1
No enforced license registration 5
Better scripting 4
Better command line 5
Better device and peripheral support 1
Access to source code 5
Easier to customize exactly how I want it 3
More intuitive, simpler to understand 1
Linux community support 5
Better reliability 4
The satisfaction of not giving Microsoft more money. 4
I don't trust Microsoft 3
I don't want to use proprietary software 4
I don't want to use commercial software 4
12. Rank the importance of various tasks you use your home Linux system for.
1= not important 5= very important N/A
Playing games 2
Hosting games N
Internet gateway 4
Firewall 5
A home file server 3
A home web server 3
Word processing 4
Spreadsheets 4
Databases N
E-mail 5
Web browsing 5
Home finances N
Programming 3
Desk Top Publishing N
Photo Editing 3
Video Editing 1
Recording live TV/ Video 1
Other N
13. What other operating system do you use at home?
Windows 98
Windows XP
DOS
14.Do you dual boot between different operating systems on your primary home Linux PC?
Yes
15. List the top one or two possible improvements that you would like to see made to Windows.
a) Command-Line support. (It's not-so-hard to implement "Restart in MS-DOS mode" is it?)
b) More networking features. (Ability to run diskless workstations, ability for manual DHCP tuning,<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...)
16. List the top one or two improvements that you would like to see made to Linux.
a) Make it more easier: Don't make users *MUST* enter passwords.
b) Easier GUI networking: (the Linux kernel, with most modules loaded is very powerful thing, but I was unable to easily turn Internet Connection Sharing on, not to mention, that there is NO way of knowing your IP from GUI in FC1)
c) improve hardware compatibility: in fact Linux's GUI crashes on VIA KM266 video card made me crazy... Linux needs hardware abstraction layer like Windows has of all unknown 2D cards, not to mention all the other hardware I can't make working...
17. Please list your e-mail address if you don't mind answering follow-up questions.
Your e-mail address will only be used for follow-up on this survey.
al305472@hotmail.co.il
Well, the truth is - no ideal OS exists -
I like OSS, but today my lovely OS is Windows XP, because Linux is way too difficult to learn, and operate.
On the other hand, I am successfully using OpenOffice, and very happy with it.
In computers I'm an advanced guy, but Linux is a new field for me.
I think that's fair enought, if I let my thoughts out to both the Linux community, and
MS - most likely - that both will hate be because of my stance, and point of view.
But feel free to eMail me anytime you want at: al305472@hotmail.co.il
It's amusing, to some extent, to see the questions asked in the business survey are aimed at the strong points of open source, both real and what is perceived. MS servers secure? SInce when???
The real giggle, though, was the video/audio editing question. Hasn't Redmond figured out it's never been a player in that market?
All that aside I don't suppose I answered this any differently than many other people. In the end Linux and open source are simply better on all the counts they ask about.
As for the paranoid around us, judging from the replies that I've seen there is nothing for the M$ marketing machine to grab onto. Even the apparent trap question about customizability (if that's a word, if not it just became one) is likely to backfire.
If, as it seems, they were looking for someone who answered with a bunch of maybes they got the wrong people here.
ttfn
John
The real giggle, though, was the video/audio editing question. Hasn't Redmond figured out it's never been a player in that market?
All that aside I don't suppose I answered this any differently than many other people. In the end Linux and open source are simply better on all the counts they ask about.
As for the paranoid around us, judging from the replies that I've seen there is nothing for the M$ marketing machine to grab onto. Even the apparent trap question about customizability (if that's a word, if not it just became one) is likely to backfire.
If, as it seems, they were looking for someone who answered with a bunch of maybes they got the wrong people here.
ttfn
John
Some of my survey answers
Posted by: roblimo on December 22, 2003 12:23 AMThe Toshiba Satellite 1410 laptop I'm currently using as my primary computer came with Windows XP Pro. I ran it as a dual-boot system for several months -- with Windows there only to check site apearance in IE -- but it is now running a Debian-based distro as its sole OS, and I use IE (only for site checks) through CodeWeavers' Crossover Office.
I recommended Linux for "everyone" to use at home; I know several high school dropouts who have no problem with it even though they have had no formal computer training, and Richard Stallman recently emailed me to say he'd watched semi-literate slum kids in Brazil learn GNU/Linux with no problem, so I don't see why anyone else should be scared of this operating system and/or free software in general.
Some of my main reasons for choosing Linux:
- There is more free add-on software
- No enforced license registration
- Easier to customize exactly how I want it
- More intuitive, simpler to understand
- Linux community support
- Better reliability
- I don't trust Microsoft
My "top one or two possible improvements that you would like to see made to Windows" were:
"Open source code, more flexibility, cleaner software install/uninstall (especially uninstall), available for purchase from a company that has a sense of business ethics and is not run by liars."
I suppose I am a poor sales prospect for Microsoft. Oh, well.
- Robin
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