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<TT>insmod rtl8139too</TT>and report back what it says? Is it not a good thing for a user to learn that this is possible?
It's not even close.
I think what the Linux ``purists'' are worried about is that access to the command line might disappear or that you won't be able to run the system without X. I'm not sure how the former could ever happen. The latter is becoming a bit of a problem with some distributions. (The long time ability to run Linux on low memory systems for tasks like firewalling or file/print services is getting harder to do. Or at least harder to figure out how to do as some tools don't document what files the GUI interface is modifying behind the scenes.)
Personally, I love the command line because I'm a net admin, and I frequently have to login to machines remotely. Anything that a Linux/Unix box can do can be executed from the command line, which is a far cry from any other OS.
That said, I also love the GUI. All the programming and web design I do is generally from within a GUI because it's easier. Sure I could fire up a terminal with vi (which I'll do if I need to fix a quick bug), but it doesn't have the functionality of a dedicated IDE (like the code completion features of Zend Studio for example).
I use both GNOME and KDE, and even though they're both very high quality environments, I know that in time they will only get better.
What initially attracted me to Linux (and what keeps me here) is the freedom to use my system as it best suits me. Even though I would have a hard time without a command line, I know that the other 99% of users out there don't want anything to do with it, and I'm fine with that.
What it comes down to is that I agree: Linux shouldn't _need_ a command line to run if it's going to be a main-stream OS. Whether that's a KDE/GNOME issue or a Fedora/SuSE/Mandrake/etc issue is irrelevant to the average Joe user, but it _is_ something that the development community should be accutely aware of.
However saying that if one prefers command line one could go back to 8088 and DOS is just stupid. The Linux command line is infinitely more powerful than the one in DOS, or even in Windows NT/2000/XP (maybe it is those bad implementations that have given the command line a bad reputation).
I believe that while it should not be foisted on users that do not want to know about it, it should still be promoted, because it empowers users. It allows a user willing to learn something new to automate repetitive tasks. No GUI interface I have ever seen permits one to conveniently perform a set of operations on a large number of files.
One old critique of GUIs has stuck to my mind: GUIs are like going back to the times before the invention of speech, when people had to point and gesture instead of being able to say what they mean. GUI interfaces have improved since then, but the critique is still largely valid. A GUI-only system is less powerful than one that also makes a command language available.
The right tool for the job. The simple things simple, and the difficult things possible.
You claim at one point "And once you have one of these systems, there is no need -- ever -- to do anything beyond point and click until the thing breaks down and either gets sent off to a repair shop or gets replaced by a newer model."
This is most emphatically not true.
It is always necessary to apply security patches, regardless of OS-of-choice, even in a desktop environment.
While GNU/Linux systems are arguably considerably more secure than OS-which-are-not-GNU/Linux, the irresponsible attitude that updates are somehow unnecessary should not be promoted to users of any OS.
Fortunately, pretty much every GNU/Linux distribution these days has a nice GUI for performing this task as well.
It's true that most home and non-technical users will be able to do what they need without ever seeing the bash prompt, sysadmins and developers will always need the command line. It's really mich faster to do things there (when you know what you need and how to use the shell) than with a GUI. I've debated this with the Mac Heads at work. With a side by side comparison, doing server admin and development things is faster in the CLI than in a GUI, be it X or OS X or WinXX. This with people extremely profishant in each of their own environments.
<TT>
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If I actually could spell I'd have spelled it right in the first place!
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I was going to write my computing history, but I doubt people would be interested. Here's the rub: What you use, depends on who you are.
As a coder, I use both worlds. Eclipse for writing Java, gvim/kate for writing PHP, SQL and C/C++, ant/make from a bash prompt to build, and either scp, or Konqueror and the SFTP protocol to deploy.This is for a programmer
As a system administrator, I use bash, and the command line tools to do most things. The exceptions being setting up CUPS, and Samba. I can set up Samba by hand, but it takes ages. No such luck with CUPS, but I can fiddle the config by hand a bit. This is for a sysadmin
On the other hand, if I want to get my dear old mum to use my network, and have any chance of getting her to use Linux for everything except games only available on Windows, the command line is not an option. It means I'll have to create some sort of tool to let her dial out (modem on my router, no GUI tool I know of handles that nicely). But all is not lost! She has been using Star Office for about 3 years now to do her resume and keep her budget. Its not all going M$'s way.
My points:
And finally, before the GUI wars start again, I use GNOME and KDE. They both have features that I like. If I ever convert my mum, and get her using Linux, its her choice what GUI she uses. And my dialer tool will be written in such a way that it makes her life easier.
Whatever it is you do, do it your way. Just try not to get ripped off in the process, either financially, or through lack of features, and/or choice.
Command Line are cool!
Posted by: wabautista on January 05, 2004 05:14 PMBut to persuade Windows users, you have to have a good GUI.
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