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MandrakeSoft now profitable, says CEO Bancilhon
By Robin 'Roblimo' Miller
on
January 22, 2004 (8:00:00 AM)
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During an inteview with NewsForge at LinuxWorld, MandrakeSoft CEO Francois Bancilhon said the company is releasing financial results today
that show a profit. "Now, he said, "we can move to the next step, which is to grow it." He expects MandrakeSoft to emerge from the French
equivalent of Chapter 11 as early as March, but notes that under French law, "this can take some time," so he cannot be certain of exactly when
MandrakeSoft will have the cloud of bankruptcy lifted from its corporate head.
Asked about quality control problems that have plagued recent Mandrake
releases, Bancilhon said, "I think we have improved a lot from 9.1 to 9.2."
Beyond that, he said, We are going to introduce something new with 10.0. We are going to have two versions of the system."
One will be "community," the other "official."
The "community" veresion is expected to be the first major Linux distribution that includes the 2.6 kernel. Two or three months later, the "official" version will also incorporate the new kernel.
Bancilhon expects to see updated versions of the "community version" every six months, while the "official" version will be on an 18 month release cycle.
Bancilhon said MandrakeSoft is not doing the same as Red Hat management has done with their split between Red Hat and Fedora. The "community" version of Mandrake will still be produced by company developers and supported by MandrakeSoft employees as part of their job, unlike the Fedora project which is produced outside of Red Hat's formal development structure and supported by volunteers.
Expenses down, income up
According to Bancilhon, MandrakeSoft is now down to 60 employees and has total corporate expenses of about 300 thousand Euros per month, while income from "Mandrake Club" subscriptions and other sources are up substantially. Not only that, raw downloads of the free Mandrake versions -- which often lead to users becoming paid subscribers -- are now in the range of "three to four million per year."
The vagueness in download figures is because MandrakeSoftw had no accurate download reporting mechanism in place until last quarter, said Bancilhon. But now he knows "it is growing. All my numbers are growing."
Will Mandrake be the only major KDE distro?
Bancilhon said, "We keep our principles. We are true to the open source model. We will keep having free downloads and a business model consistent with that."
He also said he expects SUSE to start using Gnome as its primary desktop now that Novell, which had already bought Ximian, has acquired the company. Red Hat is Gnome-oriented, and has developed its own "Bluecurve" desktop. Of the "bg three" corporate-produced Linux distributions, this would leave Mandrake as the only one with primary loyalty to KDE.
SUSE has traditionally been a major KDE supporter and has employed a number of KDE developers.
NewsForge asked Bancilhon what would happen to KDE -- and KDE-dependent Mandrake -- if SUSE stopped supporting its developers. "I don't know," he said. "I hope (by the time that happens) we'll have more room to support them."
Mandrake still loyal to individual desktop users
"50% of our customers are running desktops or laptops, 50% run Mandrake on servers," said Bancilhon. He noted that sales are to "60% individuals, 40% corporations."
He added, "Those individual users are the one who have supported the company. We'll keep supporting them. At the same time, we want to develop and strengthen our corporate offerings.
"Over the next year we are going to go after more corporate service and sales, starting in France.
At this point, according to Bancilhon, fewer than 15% of Mandrake users are in France, but he expects this to change with MandrakeSoft's new emphasis on actively seeking corporate customers in its own country, rather than relying so heavily on foreign sales.
Beyond that, he said, We are going to introduce something new with 10.0. We are going to have two versions of the system."
One will be "community," the other "official."
The "community" veresion is expected to be the first major Linux distribution that includes the 2.6 kernel. Two or three months later, the "official" version will also incorporate the new kernel.
Bancilhon expects to see updated versions of the "community version" every six months, while the "official" version will be on an 18 month release cycle.
Bancilhon said MandrakeSoft is not doing the same as Red Hat management has done with their split between Red Hat and Fedora. The "community" version of Mandrake will still be produced by company developers and supported by MandrakeSoft employees as part of their job, unlike the Fedora project which is produced outside of Red Hat's formal development structure and supported by volunteers.
Expenses down, income up
According to Bancilhon, MandrakeSoft is now down to 60 employees and has total corporate expenses of about 300 thousand Euros per month, while income from "Mandrake Club" subscriptions and other sources are up substantially. Not only that, raw downloads of the free Mandrake versions -- which often lead to users becoming paid subscribers -- are now in the range of "three to four million per year."
The vagueness in download figures is because MandrakeSoftw had no accurate download reporting mechanism in place until last quarter, said Bancilhon. But now he knows "it is growing. All my numbers are growing."
Will Mandrake be the only major KDE distro?
Bancilhon said, "We keep our principles. We are true to the open source model. We will keep having free downloads and a business model consistent with that."
He also said he expects SUSE to start using Gnome as its primary desktop now that Novell, which had already bought Ximian, has acquired the company. Red Hat is Gnome-oriented, and has developed its own "Bluecurve" desktop. Of the "bg three" corporate-produced Linux distributions, this would leave Mandrake as the only one with primary loyalty to KDE.
SUSE has traditionally been a major KDE supporter and has employed a number of KDE developers.
NewsForge asked Bancilhon what would happen to KDE -- and KDE-dependent Mandrake -- if SUSE stopped supporting its developers. "I don't know," he said. "I hope (by the time that happens) we'll have more room to support them."
Mandrake still loyal to individual desktop users
"50% of our customers are running desktops or laptops, 50% run Mandrake on servers," said Bancilhon. He noted that sales are to "60% individuals, 40% corporations."
He added, "Those individual users are the one who have supported the company. We'll keep supporting them. At the same time, we want to develop and strengthen our corporate offerings.
"Over the next year we are going to go after more corporate service and sales, starting in France.
At this point, according to Bancilhon, fewer than 15% of Mandrake users are in France, but he expects this to change with MandrakeSoft's new emphasis on actively seeking corporate customers in its own country, rather than relying so heavily on foreign sales.
Comments
on MandrakeSoft now profitable, says CEO BancilhonNote: Comments are owned by the poster. We are not responsible for their content.
Hey, now...I run GNOME on my Mandrake 9.2 box just fine. I like KDE on it too, but you don't really miss anything one way or the other. Well, except that GNOME's default WM doesn't do the "always on top" trick....boy that's useful. Or have a 25-items-long cut/paste history. But, insofar as GNOME is good, Mandrake is good with it. Don't forget, all the X-based tools the Mandrake developers have written are in GTK.
Anyhow, it sure is nice to see them making it.
Anyhow, it sure is nice to see them making it.
I'm with you on that. One other thing that I've long liked about Mandrake is that I can use KDE for a nice, easy interface, but when I want to get into it, I have a choice of many different window managers. I just got a Cooker version of XFCE 4.0.3 about a week ago, and it runs very well on Mandrake 9.2. In fact, XFCE 3 or 4 is what I generally use instead of KDE on my Mandrake system these days.
I have been using Xfce since the version 1 days and it's been my promary DE since. Right now I think it's as good or better than either KDE or GNOME but having all three available is a godsend. It's especially good because they all three are building on the freedesktop standards.
I like Mandrake for the easy use of hardware. But I disalike the weak support of GNOME, I surprise to I can't find the last versions of the key GNOME tecnology like gnome-db, (when you try to install some software the dependencies use the ollldddd 0.2.96 version), and you can't find as default installed software some usefull GNOME software.
Give us the chance to try both Desktops, with the last software and key tecnologies. I hop to use a Desktop Neutral Distribution, with the focus to easy the work to the 'normal' peaple (this distribution have the chance to rise to the regular user's); but like the free software filosofy, give us the 'free choise'.
Give us the chance to try both Desktops, with the last software and key tecnologies. I hop to use a Desktop Neutral Distribution, with the focus to easy the work to the 'normal' peaple (this distribution have the chance to rise to the regular user's); but like the free software filosofy, give us the 'free choise'.
I use Mandrake and am very content. Only one point the start up time of open office is to long.
IMHO Mandrake a very good distrubution. Better as Red Hat. It is also a supporting free software / Open source distrubution. And I hope it will stay that way.
The only distro thats even better in supporting Free software is Debian. But debian needs to better communicate what they are doing. Its often a mistery to me. Anyway debian is for people who have more time on there hands.
Mandrake is a distro for GNU/Linux people who have less time. They offer a value.
The powerpack has some non-free drivers. Wich I have mingled feelings for. Hardware people need to open up there drivers and face the music.
I'm paying for the clubmembership!
IMHO Mandrake a very good distrubution. Better as Red Hat. It is also a supporting free software / Open source distrubution. And I hope it will stay that way.
The only distro thats even better in supporting Free software is Debian. But debian needs to better communicate what they are doing. Its often a mistery to me. Anyway debian is for people who have more time on there hands.
Mandrake is a distro for GNU/Linux people who have less time. They offer a value.
The powerpack has some non-free drivers. Wich I have mingled feelings for. Hardware people need to open up there drivers and face the music.
I'm paying for the clubmembership!
such as Lindows, who happens to be probably the biggest commercial supporter of KDE.
Besides that, I am happy to hear things are doing well with Mandrake. I use MDK 9.2 and love how good Mandrake Move looks. I also have the MDK 10 snapshot and things are looking good there as well.
Any ways, Congrats Mandrake, you rock!
Besides that, I am happy to hear things are doing well with Mandrake. I use MDK 9.2 and love how good Mandrake Move looks. I also have the MDK 10 snapshot and things are looking good there as well.
Any ways, Congrats Mandrake, you rock!
50% desktop, 60% individuals, 85% international, a centrally supported "community version", fantastic installation and hardware recognition capabilities, innovative tools like urpmi and now the only major distro with KDE?
And now even a live CD version MandrakeMove with a *removable* CD!
NO other distro comes even close to that kind of offer!
There are, however, a number of things which still need improvement. Among them a VERY louzy "Definitive Mandrake Linux Manual", a poor job done by Deno for the Mandrake Club (not really his fault - he would need some help with that) and a rather dull website.
But the main thing: THANKS GUYS for a great product! (Bien joué les amis - continuez!)
What do you think of the community/official split?
Posted by: Anonymous Coward on January 23, 2004 06:23 AM
I have been an avid Mandrake supporter for years, but the following has me concerned:
"The "community" version is expected to be the first major Linux distribution that includes the 2.6 kernel. Two or three months later, the "official" version will also incorporate the new kernel.
Bancilhon expects to see updated versions of the "community version" every six months, while the "official" version will be on an 18 month release cycle."
Basically, I take this to be that they will use the community version as a way to beta-test their real distribution. The paying customers get the good stuff, the rest of us deal with the bugs and have to be on a constant upgrade treadmill because security updates will no longer be provided after six months.
Very disturbing, IF this is indeed the case.
Six months is not nearly enough time for an operating system to stop being supported. This is just plain ridiculous and IT is exactly the same thing that Red Hat is doing with Fedora, which at the time I found appalling. Only difference is that Fedora actually has a fedora-legacy project that seeks to have longer-maintenance cycles.
What do you folks think?
"The "community" version is expected to be the first major Linux distribution that includes the 2.6 kernel. Two or three months later, the "official" version will also incorporate the new kernel.
Bancilhon expects to see updated versions of the "community version" every six months, while the "official" version will be on an 18 month release cycle."
Basically, I take this to be that they will use the community version as a way to beta-test their real distribution. The paying customers get the good stuff, the rest of us deal with the bugs and have to be on a constant upgrade treadmill because security updates will no longer be provided after six months.
Very disturbing, IF this is indeed the case.
Six months is not nearly enough time for an operating system to stop being supported. This is just plain ridiculous and IT is exactly the same thing that Red Hat is doing with Fedora, which at the time I found appalling. Only difference is that Fedora actually has a fedora-legacy project that seeks to have longer-maintenance cycles.
What do you folks think?
Re:What do you think of the community/official spl
Posted by: Anonymous Coward on January 23, 2004 08:54 AM
I believe both versions will be distributed as they are now, for free. It's just that the "official" version will be like debian-stable - tested the hell out of but somewhat outdated.
Re:What do you think of the community/official spl
Posted by: Anonymous Coward on January 23, 2004 09:31 AM
"I believe both versions will be distributed as they are now, for free"
could anyone confirm or deny this please?
could anyone confirm or deny this please?
Re:What do you think of the community/official spl
Posted by: Anonymous Coward on January 23, 2004 02:26 PM
It was previously announced so in the Mandrake "golden rules".
Re:What do you think of the community/official spl
Posted by: Anonymous Coward on January 23, 2004 09:07 AM
Someone in the community can actually provide updated packages for the community releases. Mandrake could then link to them for those wanting to go for community release updates past the 6 month period. As long as the official release is all open source, I don't see an issue here. An 18 month release schedule on the official release is good for drivers and more maturity. This would free up Mandrake resources to offer better support for the official releases and to be able to have a long support timframe.
Re:What do you think of the community/official spl
Posted by: Anonymous Coward on January 23, 2004 11:33 AM
Well I do see a issue.
You see, Mandrake has always been a community-based distribution both in development and its high regard for the GPL.
What' s new here is that it isn't clear from the announcement whether they will only offer six months of security updates. That is unaceptable and shameful. How can I approach non-profits about moving away from Linux when they will be on a six-month upgrade treadmill?
Even 18 months is way too short a time. This is more disturbing because Mandrake had a longer support cycle when it was a smaller company than now.
I have never really seriously looked at Debian, but it is beginning to look like the only real solution for small non-profits.
You see, Mandrake has always been a community-based distribution both in development and its high regard for the GPL.
What' s new here is that it isn't clear from the announcement whether they will only offer six months of security updates. That is unaceptable and shameful. How can I approach non-profits about moving away from Linux when they will be on a six-month upgrade treadmill?
Even 18 months is way too short a time. This is more disturbing because Mandrake had a longer support cycle when it was a smaller company than now.
I have never really seriously looked at Debian, but it is beginning to look like the only real solution for small non-profits.
Re:What do you think of the community/official spl
Posted by: Anonymous Coward on January 23, 2004 02:27 PM
I see Mandrake as dynamic, constantly moving toward something better. Though, as you mentioned, 6 months is a rather rapid upgrade cycle for someone looking for a stable desktop. This is where the 18 month release cycle version comes in. You call 18 months too short, and it may well be, but stop and think what it means first.
With a rapid release cycle, providing prolonged support would mean supporting lots of different versions at the same time. If you slow down the release schedule, you end up with a base version that may need very significant updating upon install. I think Mandrake may have found a great solution in having two versions to meet two needs.
The first, a rapid release cycle version that will have the latest and greatest. This version does not need a long support period, as those who use it would be those who will migrate to new versions as they come out. Supporting even 2 versions of this (current and previous) would be more than sufficient to cover it's user base.
The second, with it's longer release cycle, would be for those looking for a stable installation with prolonged support. This would be easier for Mandrake to provide due to the longer release cycle, because the packages that go into it will have had user testing through the rapid release version. So even if Mandrake were to support only 2 versions of this one, it would be providing a support period of 3 Years.
With this, Mandrake would only be supporting 4 different versions of it's distribution at any point, possibly less depending on overlap between the two. This would ease the burden of prolonged support, while still what I feel would be sufficient support. And if this is not enough, each additional version supported would add an additional 1.5 years to the period of support.
With this, they would continue to be a very dynamic distribution for those who desire such, and for those wanting stability, their needs could be met also. I think Mandrake can provide the best of both worlds with this.
For me, personally, I rarely last between versions without upgrading things on my own, so much so that I have even found moving to the latest version of Mandrake will sometimes have older versions of some software then what I using. I will be one to use the 6 month release cycle version without a doubt.
With a rapid release cycle, providing prolonged support would mean supporting lots of different versions at the same time. If you slow down the release schedule, you end up with a base version that may need very significant updating upon install. I think Mandrake may have found a great solution in having two versions to meet two needs.
The first, a rapid release cycle version that will have the latest and greatest. This version does not need a long support period, as those who use it would be those who will migrate to new versions as they come out. Supporting even 2 versions of this (current and previous) would be more than sufficient to cover it's user base.
The second, with it's longer release cycle, would be for those looking for a stable installation with prolonged support. This would be easier for Mandrake to provide due to the longer release cycle, because the packages that go into it will have had user testing through the rapid release version. So even if Mandrake were to support only 2 versions of this one, it would be providing a support period of 3 Years.
With this, Mandrake would only be supporting 4 different versions of it's distribution at any point, possibly less depending on overlap between the two. This would ease the burden of prolonged support, while still what I feel would be sufficient support. And if this is not enough, each additional version supported would add an additional 1.5 years to the period of support.
With this, they would continue to be a very dynamic distribution for those who desire such, and for those wanting stability, their needs could be met also. I think Mandrake can provide the best of both worlds with this.
For me, personally, I rarely last between versions without upgrading things on my own, so much so that I have even found moving to the latest version of Mandrake will sometimes have older versions of some software then what I using. I will be one to use the 6 month release cycle version without a doubt.
Re:What do you think of the community/official spl
Posted by: Anonymous Coward on January 23, 2004 02:45 PM
release cycles != support period.
Read their Golden Rules :
http://www.mandrakesoft.com/company/press/pr?n=/p<nobr>r<wbr></nobr> /corporate/2446
1) Software updates for all Mandrake products
Official MandrakeSoft software updates -- including bug fixes and security updates -- will remain freely available for all public supported products, according to the official product lifetime table.
4) Free as in 'Libre' and Free as in 'Beer'!
A download version of Mandrake Linux, consisting entirely of Open Source software, will continue to be released, provided without cost, and supported.
Read their Golden Rules :
http://www.mandrakesoft.com/company/press/pr?n=/p<nobr>r<wbr></nobr> /corporate/2446
1) Software updates for all Mandrake products
Official MandrakeSoft software updates -- including bug fixes and security updates -- will remain freely available for all public supported products, according to the official product lifetime table.
4) Free as in 'Libre' and Free as in 'Beer'!
A download version of Mandrake Linux, consisting entirely of Open Source software, will continue to be released, provided without cost, and supported.
Re:What do you think of the community/official spl
Posted by: Mandrake Magician on January 24, 2004 09:15 AM
"That is unaceptable and shameful. How can I approach non-profits about moving away from Linux when they will be on a six-month upgrade treadmill?"
How about approaching them with an invoice that also covers the cost of the Official version? I rather suspect you bill for your time, why not pass a few bucks along to Mandrake?
And quit whining. If you are actually technically competent you should find it no real challenge to establish a YUM repository (think "value add") for the exclusive use of your customers. If you are selling them support, it is ethically fubar to expect MandrakeSoft to do all the work for you while you cash all the checks. Compile and package your own updates<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... that is part of what your customers are paying you to do.
BTW, Mandrake IS Linux<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... just as much as any other distro. Moving someone to Mandrake is != "moving away from Linux".
How about approaching them with an invoice that also covers the cost of the Official version? I rather suspect you bill for your time, why not pass a few bucks along to Mandrake?
And quit whining. If you are actually technically competent you should find it no real challenge to establish a YUM repository (think "value add") for the exclusive use of your customers. If you are selling them support, it is ethically fubar to expect MandrakeSoft to do all the work for you while you cash all the checks. Compile and package your own updates<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... that is part of what your customers are paying you to do.
BTW, Mandrake IS Linux<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... just as much as any other distro. Moving someone to Mandrake is != "moving away from Linux".
Mandrake actually supports it's official version. People that buy this stuff in corporations, like me for instance, don't want to be in the position of getting screwed out of updates or getting sold a beta POS.
The community version I think will be more robust over time. If it really is a community, that is. Just look at Debian, or any other non-corp driven distro. It's not a bad thing. I like it actually. It's easy to bankrupt 1 corporation- nearly impossible to bankrupt 5 million individuals.
Personally, I wanna run 2.6.1+ at home, and get 20MB/s off my usb hard drive and attach all kinds of worthless yet pointless gadgets to it- which 2.4 isn't ever gonna support. So, I think it's a fair deal. We fix our own bugs along with Mandrake, and we pay them for hand holding and packaging it all together nicely. Not too hard to grasp, and not a bad way to help people get linux at home or work.
Yep, maybe now their official released version won't have as many bugs as previous. More time is good for corporate releases. Hard to iron out bugs when you have 3 officially starving frenchman working at Walmart and rushing through 5000 bugzilla reports. Essentially as it stands now, 9.2=community. The corporate release will be the new animal here. Despite what Francois says.. or whatever his name is.
The community version I think will be more robust over time. If it really is a community, that is. Just look at Debian, or any other non-corp driven distro. It's not a bad thing. I like it actually. It's easy to bankrupt 1 corporation- nearly impossible to bankrupt 5 million individuals.
Personally, I wanna run 2.6.1+ at home, and get 20MB/s off my usb hard drive and attach all kinds of worthless yet pointless gadgets to it- which 2.4 isn't ever gonna support. So, I think it's a fair deal. We fix our own bugs along with Mandrake, and we pay them for hand holding and packaging it all together nicely. Not too hard to grasp, and not a bad way to help people get linux at home or work.
Yep, maybe now their official released version won't have as many bugs as previous. More time is good for corporate releases. Hard to iron out bugs when you have 3 officially starving frenchman working at Walmart and rushing through 5000 bugzilla reports. Essentially as it stands now, 9.2=community. The corporate release will be the new animal here. Despite what Francois says.. or whatever his name is.
* * * MandrakeSoft's 8 Golden Rules * * *
1) Software updates for all Mandrake products
Official MandrakeSoft software updates -- including bug fixes and security updates -- will remain freely available for all public supported products, according to the official product lifetime table.
2) Product lifetimes are not hidden
A product lifetime table for all major MandrakeSoft products is publicly available on the Mandrake Linux website. For example, the Mandrake Linux 9.2 Download, Discovery, PowerPack and ProSuite editions will be supported with core updates until March 30, 2005.
3) Product lifetimes do not change during a product's lifetime
The support lifetimes are respected, and may sometimes even be extended.
4) Free as in 'Libre' and Free as in 'Beer'!
A download version of Mandrake Linux, consisting entirely of Open Source software, will continue to be released, provided without cost, and supported.
5) MandrakeSoft's code conforms to the GPL
ALL applications created by MandrakeSoft, such as the Mandrake Linux installer and Linux configuration utilities, are released under the General Public License. Our firm commitment to the GPL is the appropriate way to "give back" to the Free Software community.
6) Mandrake Linux -- A true Open Source project
The development of Mandrake Linux is conducted entirely in accordance to the Open Source spirit. Development of Mandrake Linux products are based on "Cooker", which is a publicly available development platform and community. Cooker provides complete access to:
a) Source code -- through a CVS repository
b) Direct communication with developers -- through numerous mailing-lists
c) And a 'Wiki' collaborative website
7) The choice of free support...
All Mandrake Linux users have free access to the community-supported MandrakeExpert.com support platform.
8) MandrakeSoft listens to you...
MandrakeSoft encourages and welcomes feedback and suggestions from its base of users, thereby releasing products that better match the users' needs.
1) Software updates for all Mandrake products
Official MandrakeSoft software updates -- including bug fixes and security updates -- will remain freely available for all public supported products, according to the official product lifetime table.
2) Product lifetimes are not hidden
A product lifetime table for all major MandrakeSoft products is publicly available on the Mandrake Linux website. For example, the Mandrake Linux 9.2 Download, Discovery, PowerPack and ProSuite editions will be supported with core updates until March 30, 2005.
3) Product lifetimes do not change during a product's lifetime
The support lifetimes are respected, and may sometimes even be extended.
4) Free as in 'Libre' and Free as in 'Beer'!
A download version of Mandrake Linux, consisting entirely of Open Source software, will continue to be released, provided without cost, and supported.
5) MandrakeSoft's code conforms to the GPL
ALL applications created by MandrakeSoft, such as the Mandrake Linux installer and Linux configuration utilities, are released under the General Public License. Our firm commitment to the GPL is the appropriate way to "give back" to the Free Software community.
6) Mandrake Linux -- A true Open Source project
The development of Mandrake Linux is conducted entirely in accordance to the Open Source spirit. Development of Mandrake Linux products are based on "Cooker", which is a publicly available development platform and community. Cooker provides complete access to:
a) Source code -- through a CVS repository
b) Direct communication with developers -- through numerous mailing-lists
c) And a 'Wiki' collaborative website
7) The choice of free support...
All Mandrake Linux users have free access to the community-supported MandrakeExpert.com support platform.
8) MandrakeSoft listens to you...
MandrakeSoft encourages and welcomes feedback and suggestions from its base of users, thereby releasing products that better match the users' needs.
Few years ago, before Mandrake goes down, you guys supported very nice free software projects. One of them, I remember, was <A HREF="http://phpnuke.org/" TITLE="phpnuke.org">PHP-Nuke</a phpnuke.org>. The guy behind this software made the stuff very good an grow himself alone after you decided to spin he off. PHP-Nuke club was created inspired by Mandrake Club, and now it's always on the TOP 10 of Reg.Net, company they decided to manage their users payments. We must recognize that this was a big effort and a hard work.
So, what about PHP-Nuke and/or other free software projects that deserves financial support? Will this practice from Mandrake emerge again like in the past? That would be very nice.
Consider it... now that the company is starting to be profitable.
So, what about PHP-Nuke and/or other free software projects that deserves financial support? Will this practice from Mandrake emerge again like in the past? That would be very nice.
Consider it... now that the company is starting to be profitable.
Asked about quality control problems that have plagued recent Mandrake releases, Bancilhon said, "I think we have improved a lot from 9.1 to 9.2."
This 9.2 user thinks they have a way to go yet.
This 9.2 user thinks they have a way to go yet.
Having seen 9.0 in action and having tried 9.2, I'd say that the good things (nice desktop, decent partitioning tools) are outweighed by the bad things. For example, even Red Hat 7.3 handles my USB hardware more or less properly, whereas Mandrake 9.2 detects my CD-RW drive but then not only fails to let it work with kscd, but it makes it virtually unusable to every other program in the system. Experience with 9.0 would suggest that they aren't likely to fix such stuff any time soon, if ever, whereas Red Hat were at least responsive to various USB issues which, admittedly, they managed to introduce in certain kernel updates.
Better hardware support is really needed across the board for Linux, and Mandrake do at least seem to be more progressive than other vendors at getting stuff certified, and I'd even pay a reasonable fee to subscribe to a distro which worked properly with my hardware. The problem is that even though the Mandrake Club exists, I have little confidence that Mandrake could deliver the goods.
Better hardware support is really needed across the board for Linux, and Mandrake do at least seem to be more progressive than other vendors at getting stuff certified, and I'd even pay a reasonable fee to subscribe to a distro which worked properly with my hardware. The problem is that even though the Mandrake Club exists, I have little confidence that Mandrake could deliver the goods.
HA! I'm a Mandrake user for a long time now. Used every version, including most Betas, of MDK since after 6.0, and I must say that the difference between 9.0, 9.1, and then the release of 9.2 was definitely an improving one, and the 9.2 release was definitely a successful and VERY GOOD release. You need to use the OS more dude, go home
The club I understand is the cash cow of mandrake and still, the place is a mess with a very visible absence of dedicated staff to sort out rpm voting, easy urpmi set-up, forums.
Such an oversight is hardly forgivable when what people expect from Mdk is a place where they update the core components of their distro. That's not what you find there.
Such an oversight is hardly forgivable when what people expect from Mdk is a place where they update the core components of their distro. That's not what you find there.
Bancilhon said, "I think we have improved a lot from 9.1 to 9.2."
My experiance is VERY different.
Both Mandrake 9.0 and RedHat 8.0 are far superior
to Mandrake 9.1/9.2, RedHat 9 and Fedora Core 1
as Desktop products.
For example, I have a well known and well supported
ISDN card based on "Winbond" chip. Both Mandrake 9.0
and RedHat 8.0 have a perfect graphical tools for
making connection.
Then, suddently, with Mandrake 9.1 and RedHat 9 most
of the tools simply don't work.
With Mandrake 9.2 and Fedora Core 1 things are getting
much whorse. Establishing connection is almost impossible
with graphical tools.
I don't need ANY of mentioned tools to establish a
connection, but what about ordinary user or beginner?
Interesting thing is that both distibutions offer and
recognise only non-egsistent eth insteed of ippp0.
That tell us that both distributions are developing
everything only for corpoprate users (LAN). Home user
is something that belong in the past.
My experiance is VERY different.
Both Mandrake 9.0 and RedHat 8.0 are far superior
to Mandrake 9.1/9.2, RedHat 9 and Fedora Core 1
as Desktop products.
For example, I have a well known and well supported
ISDN card based on "Winbond" chip. Both Mandrake 9.0
and RedHat 8.0 have a perfect graphical tools for
making connection.
Then, suddently, with Mandrake 9.1 and RedHat 9 most
of the tools simply don't work.
With Mandrake 9.2 and Fedora Core 1 things are getting
much whorse. Establishing connection is almost impossible
with graphical tools.
I don't need ANY of mentioned tools to establish a
connection, but what about ordinary user or beginner?
Interesting thing is that both distibutions offer and
recognise only non-egsistent eth insteed of ippp0.
That tell us that both distributions are developing
everything only for corpoprate users (LAN). Home user
is something that belong in the past.
The more a distro depends on KDE, the more glitchy it will be, and less likely to be used by me.
KDE is excellent at doing two things however:: generating error messages in all distros and appeasing the candy cravings of former Windows users who are so used to glitches that they do not notice them.
--Glanz
KDE is excellent at doing two things however:: generating error messages in all distros and appeasing the candy cravings of former Windows users who are so used to glitches that they do not notice them.
--Glanz
I have to disagree with you on all points. First I have been using linux for 8 years now. I started with fwmv2 (?), then AfterStep, then Windowmaker (still owns my heart), then enlightenment, then GNOME, and now KDE. KDE rocks! KDE is easier to use then GNOME, easier to configure, and (except for the panel and menus) looks better than GNOME. I don't knock GNOME. I hate the fact that some people in the Linux community want to start flame wars over which is better. GNOME has its good points. Before the release of KDE 3.x, GNOME was much faster. Now KDE wipes the floor with GNOME on speed even with the eye candy (yes KDE has a lot of it) turned on. GNOME used to be better than KDE. What the hell happened to it (GNOME)? What happen to the busycursor, why is GNOME so damn hard to configure sometimes (ever tried to fix the icon spacing problem?)? GNOME seems to be lagging behind since it went corporate. Yes, that right, GNOME is now corporate. Who what have thought that would happen. I thought KDE was suppose to be the one that would ruin it for open source. Remember the QT licensing scare? Linux is suppose to be getting easier and easier to use and look better and better while still maintaining a high level of security (unlike windows) yet GNOME seems to be getting harder and harder to use and remains just as bland as it looked during version 1.x. Whatever you say about KDE, it has gotten easier to use, faster, more stable, and the developers seem to add all the good thing you like about Windows, Macintosh, and Next. Maybe one day KDM, Konqueror, and the kicker will look as good as GDM, Nautilus and the gnome-panel. Everything else in KDE seems to have surpassed its GNOME counterparts. Hopefully the GNOME guys will get back on the ball.
theKid
theKid
The CEO says that Fedora isn't a formal part of Red Hat's development process. That's simply not true. Red Hat engineers develop and help support Fedora. Feel Free to stop by the mailing list if you didn't know that.
Bring on Core 2 with kernel 2.6! If you want to download the first polished and stable 2.6 distro, Fedora Core 2 is what your looking for.
Bring on Core 2 with kernel 2.6! If you want to download the first polished and stable 2.6 distro, Fedora Core 2 is what your looking for.
I agree, MDK needs more GNOME support. But KDE will not be depending on MDK for anything, KDE has tons of other follwers and in plenty of other distros as well.
The jump from 9.1 to 9.2 really was a good jump, ive been in the community a long time, its true.
The idea of a community release and an official release is a great idea. I would imagine both will be downloadable, but the official version will help Mandrake a lot in the IT industry, where they are growing. It's a smart move, and though Redhat developers do work on Fedora, with a MDK community release, it will actually be supported-- I wouldnt imagine it would be any different than it is now. Just it would give IT the product they need.
The jump from 9.1 to 9.2 really was a good jump, ive been in the community a long time, its true.
The idea of a community release and an official release is a great idea. I would imagine both will be downloadable, but the official version will help Mandrake a lot in the IT industry, where they are growing. It's a smart move, and though Redhat developers do work on Fedora, with a MDK community release, it will actually be supported-- I wouldnt imagine it would be any different than it is now. Just it would give IT the product they need.
SUSE & KDE
Posted by: Joe Klemmer on January 23, 2004 01:24 AMI do not like, nor do I use, either GNOME or KDE. But if the desktop is to be taken then both of these need to be equally supported by any distro that hopes to make it in the long run.
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