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Builder.com outsourcing content production to India
By Robin 'Roblimo' Miller
on
March 18, 2004 (8:00:00 AM)
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It's not just programmers anymore; now it's the people who write for them too. NewsForge.com has learned that Builder.com, CNET Networks' site aimed at application developers, plans to begin offshoring authoring of many of its articles to India shortly.
We learned of this move in the form of a "leaked" memo Builder.com senior editor Rex Baldazo sent to freelancers and fellow staffers today that said, "...with Q2 it appears my monthly article budget will be slashed dramatically. We're talking somewhere in the 40% range. Unfortunately article fees are the biggest discretionary items in our budgets so whenever they need to find a place to cut these are the biggest targets."
The last paragraph said, "And it gets worse. I hate to have nothing but bad news in this email, however they (they == TPTB) [The Powers That Be - Ed.] want me to try outsourcing some of our content. So we are currently negotiating a trial period with an outsource editorial firm in India (yes, India). They will provide a certain number of Builder articles over the next couple months. That will further reduce the number of freelance articles we purchase in Q2. The India contract is just a 2-month trial so I don't know at this time whether it will affect the number of articles we purchase in Q3. I'll try to keep everyone in the loop as we move forward on this effort."
It's not just about money, Baldazo said by phone from his Kentucky office. "One of the benefits is dealing with a single source instead of having to deal with a number of freelancers." And, he said, it's a two-month trial deal that may not become permanent, but is expected to absorb about half of Builder.com's total freelance budget while it lasts.
The last paragraph said, "And it gets worse. I hate to have nothing but bad news in this email, however they (they == TPTB) [The Powers That Be - Ed.] want me to try outsourcing some of our content. So we are currently negotiating a trial period with an outsource editorial firm in India (yes, India). They will provide a certain number of Builder articles over the next couple months. That will further reduce the number of freelance articles we purchase in Q2. The India contract is just a 2-month trial so I don't know at this time whether it will affect the number of articles we purchase in Q3. I'll try to keep everyone in the loop as we move forward on this effort."
It's not just about money, Baldazo said by phone from his Kentucky office. "One of the benefits is dealing with a single source instead of having to deal with a number of freelancers." And, he said, it's a two-month trial deal that may not become permanent, but is expected to absorb about half of Builder.com's total freelance budget while it lasts.
On the phone, Baldazo sounded upbeat about the change. Like all editors who use freelance writers heavily, he's had plenty of bad experiences with writers who didn't meet deadlines or turned in copy that wasn't as good as expected. This is why, from his seat, this deal has advantages beyond its financial aspects. "We're not just saving money," he said. "We're getting a better interface with producers of the content."
Even the time zone difference between the U.S. and India becomes a positive in Baldazo's eyes. "I give them feedback in the afternoon, they have all day to look at it, and I get something back the next morning," he said.
On the savings front, he said he expects "a little bit more" work per dollar. "Not dramatic. Not like 50%, but an increase."
He didn't want to talk about the exact number of dollars (or rupees) involved. His answer to that question was, "I don't think I should say. We're still in negotiation."
Will this experiment work? Baldazo said he's "keeping an open mind about it." Asked if he had concerns about giving up editorial control, he said, "We'll still be providing direction ... what content we want written. It will still be under our control."
The technical writing business has always had a bit of an international flavor to it. NewsForge, for instance, works with freelancers in many parts of the world. German writer Michael 'STIBS' Stibane is covering CeBit for us, and some of the reports we've run about Linux and open source use come from contributors in Korea, Australia, Mexico, Canada, The Philippines, France, and many other countries, including ... India. But Builder.com is the first major content-reliant Web site we've heard of that is offshoring writing work instead of outsourcing some of it.
Baldazo noted, "Some of our freelancers have always been overseas," so this is not a case of U.S. jobs at Builder.com suddenly moving to another country.
Indeed, Baldazo said, one of the freelancers whose work is being cut lives in India, which is certainly a perfect piece of irony to use as the ending to this story, is it not?
Comments
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Sencerely, RJ.
don't screaming at me
i writing this article as fast as i am
i writing this article as fast as i am
You americans have been taking our jobs for
a long time.
( I am speaking from an European perspective )
Now the shoe is on the other foot.
Enjoy the pain.
a long time.
( I am speaking from an European perspective )
Now the shoe is on the other foot.
Enjoy the pain.
Why always India? It's not the only country in the world that does IT and speak english at the same time.
So, aside from being cheap, what's the advantage of doing business with India.?
So, aside from being cheap, what's the advantage of doing business with India.?
India is simply the best organized at this point. They have more large, well-organized outsourcing firms. But other countries will catch up--certainly I've seen Filipino companies in the mix, and so on.
such as a techincal analysis of the Linux 2.6 kernel, or a review of Sun's latest desktop strategy.
But for real high end content, readers expect that mix of sarcasm/wit/movie references/whining/wicked digs at Microsoft, McNealy, Stallman, etc./jokes/flamefests with posters/references to '80s consumer technology/random spacey musings/(occasional) flash of technical insight, that only an American is sick enough to dish up (not necessarily roblimo or Joe I'm thinking about, though it might be).
But for real high end content, readers expect that mix of sarcasm/wit/movie references/whining/wicked digs at Microsoft, McNealy, Stallman, etc./jokes/flamefests with posters/references to '80s consumer technology/random spacey musings/(occasional) flash of technical insight, that only an American is sick enough to dish up (not necessarily roblimo or Joe I'm thinking about, though it might be).
Re:Indian journalism OK for the low end stuff
Posted by: Anonymous Coward on March 19, 2004 08:36 PM
Americans are naturally much better at delivering content that Americans can relate to. And they're better choice as far as journalism is concerned. But calling it "real high end content" and the comment that "Indian journalism OK for blah blah blah blah" smack of the ignorance and self-centricity Americans are so famous for. Pathetic!
Wouldn't it be just as ignorant and self-centric to say that Americans are ignorant and self-centric? It's EXACTLY the same as saying the French are smelly cowards (on the whole, they're not, by the way). That street goes both ways.
They aren't all obese loudmouths, seething with stupidity, waiting to sue someone else for their own lack of self-control. Of course, watching the news, you wouldn't know that. So much for stereotypes.
--Mx
They aren't all obese loudmouths, seething with stupidity, waiting to sue someone else for their own lack of self-control. Of course, watching the news, you wouldn't know that. So much for stereotypes.
--Mx
I wonder if the media will keep their positive attitude towards outsourcing, now that their jobs may be going to India? It's easy to support the theoretical economic benefits of outsourcing as long as you're not out of work!
As the old saying goes: keep your words soft and sweet, because someday you may have to eat them.
thats the one thing ive always noticed on journalists and 'experts' on outsourcing...they're never the ones that will lose their jobs.
I don't think "The Media" has a positive attitude toward offshoring, at least in the USA.
Many economists and administration officials "The Media" interview are believers in offshoring, which is not the same as "The Media" thinking it's a great idea.
BTW, do you have contact information for this "The Media" of which you speak? I know plenty of reporters and editors, and a few TV news producers, but their opinions are as varied as those of their readers and/or viewers. It would make my job much easier if, as one of the millions of people who make up what collectively might be called "The Media," there was a central source from which I could get pre-made opinions and attitudes instead of having to come up with my own.
Thanks,
- Robin
Many economists and administration officials "The Media" interview are believers in offshoring, which is not the same as "The Media" thinking it's a great idea.
BTW, do you have contact information for this "The Media" of which you speak? I know plenty of reporters and editors, and a few TV news producers, but their opinions are as varied as those of their readers and/or viewers. It would make my job much easier if, as one of the millions of people who make up what collectively might be called "The Media," there was a central source from which I could get pre-made opinions and attitudes instead of having to come up with my own.
Thanks,
- Robin
In response to where does this "media" attitude hail from, I'm not sure what to say. It's everywhere Rob. I'd
Read any news site or CIO/CEO/IT mag rag, and you get these people saying the same thing. I have yet to read an article saying that outsourcing is the pure red kool-aid ploy that it is. Really, what magazine's and net news have you been reading that have stated otherwise?
I recall one journalist on foxnews getting his ass chewed off for weeks because of his "Everyone should consider outsourcing part of business" plan. But it didn't matter. He didn't recant. And he is right in the short term. As in a few years -short term.
But students in the sciences, and now shortly, journalism are going to start dropping like flies because there is no money in it anymore. It pays better to be a plumber now because of the US allowing essentially slave labor to be had from any part of the world.
If you want links to the world of hurt we are in and how cool the media thinks it is, just go through a years worth of www.fuckedcompany.com's news postings. It's real, and it's kicking our asses.
Levi Jeans, IBM, HP, Avery Labels, Best Buy, Walmart, GM, Microsoft(good?) etc.. Sadly the "media" is paid by them. So we get dicked twice. I haven't seen any outsourcing articles on Newsforge though- either pro or con, so I can't guess at your opinion on the matter.
As for the topic, now the journalists are starting to get a taste. Oh well. Too long. Too late. Consider that profession lucky that it was the last to go. They helped to make it that way.
Now if we can just figure out how to buy the products we don't produce with the money we don't make, we'll be doing just nifty. Until then, it's suckville. And we all get a straw.
Read any news site or CIO/CEO/IT mag rag, and you get these people saying the same thing. I have yet to read an article saying that outsourcing is the pure red kool-aid ploy that it is. Really, what magazine's and net news have you been reading that have stated otherwise?
I recall one journalist on foxnews getting his ass chewed off for weeks because of his "Everyone should consider outsourcing part of business" plan. But it didn't matter. He didn't recant. And he is right in the short term. As in a few years -short term.
But students in the sciences, and now shortly, journalism are going to start dropping like flies because there is no money in it anymore. It pays better to be a plumber now because of the US allowing essentially slave labor to be had from any part of the world.
If you want links to the world of hurt we are in and how cool the media thinks it is, just go through a years worth of www.fuckedcompany.com's news postings. It's real, and it's kicking our asses.
Levi Jeans, IBM, HP, Avery Labels, Best Buy, Walmart, GM, Microsoft(good?) etc.. Sadly the "media" is paid by them. So we get dicked twice. I haven't seen any outsourcing articles on Newsforge though- either pro or con, so I can't guess at your opinion on the matter.
As for the topic, now the journalists are starting to get a taste. Oh well. Too long. Too late. Consider that profession lucky that it was the last to go. They helped to make it that way.
Now if we can just figure out how to buy the products we don't produce with the money we don't make, we'll be doing just nifty. Until then, it's suckville. And we all get a straw.
Why is it that management always refer to outsourcing as "It's not about the money, it's about [getting a higher quality product] or [outsourcing responsibility]"?
Let's be straight about it - outsourcing is about saving money. Period. Other side effects are nice, but in the end, the bottom line is the key.
I wonder anyway which is a better way to be told of your job being outsourced? "We're gonna sack you in 3 months because you're too damn expensive" or "We're considering a trial period with an outsourcer in [insert developing country here]. At this stage it's not permanent. Just trust me".
btw: I'm not a victim of outsourcing. However I am a realist and I can see Information Technology disappearing as a profession in the developed world.
Let's be straight about it - outsourcing is about saving money. Period. Other side effects are nice, but in the end, the bottom line is the key.
I wonder anyway which is a better way to be told of your job being outsourced? "We're gonna sack you in 3 months because you're too damn expensive" or "We're considering a trial period with an outsourcer in [insert developing country here]. At this stage it's not permanent. Just trust me".
btw: I'm not a victim of outsourcing. However I am a realist and I can see Information Technology disappearing as a profession in the developed world.
Do they even speak proper english?
Are you referring to Indians or managers? In the latter case, I'd say "no".
i bet that Indian editors and managerial staff are also cheaper than their American brethren. the last people to be outsourced will be the shareholders, but that's coming...
Rex was not being truthful. It's about the money. The editors were furious that the contributor budgets have been slashed so drastically. CNET is looking to turn Builder.com into ZDNET where all content is vendor sponsored content. ZDNET and Techrepublic also use the same India firm. CNET has had so many lay-offs that there are no editorial people left. They tried to move everything to Louisville KY. Shelby Bonnie once called it little India because salaries were so much cheaper. Once they found out how cheep they could offshore, they are letting the Louisville staff go. TechRepublic's new tag line should be Real It By Real Indians.
I'm not suprised that Builder fierd its Indian freelancer -- he made the same rate as US writers. In the past Builder paid based on the quaility of the contnet, not on how much money they saved.
Yes Builder used foriegn writers before, but they paid them comparable to US writers because they were IT professinals with working knowledge of the subject. It used to be about the qaulity content not about how cheap they could buy it.
Yes Builder used foriegn writers before, but they paid them comparable to US writers because they were IT professinals with working knowledge of the subject. It used to be about the qaulity content not about how cheap they could buy it.
I've just unsubscribe from their soon to be shitty e-newsletters and added builder.com to my spam filters. I know I’m not a big wheel in the IT scheme of things. My IT budget is only ~$1.3M. But I'm making a concerted effort to boycott as many companies that outsource US Jobs as possible. Builder.com has just made the list.
i sure hope ole George Bush and his cronies are watching. In november i'm ready for the first time in my life to vote democrate. I hope John Kerry penalizes every company that decides to ship jobs over seas. They need to tariff the crap by 2000% coming back into the US trying to do business. One day every product at Walmart will fizzle because the tariffs will go up so far those idiots will go out of business too. Pay now or pay later. Looks like US is wanting to pay now for that free lunch vs waiting till the next generation to save a few bucks now.
Same here...builder.com just hit the spam list for me as well. I am an independant consultant who was laid off 9 months ago...replaced by the indian firm Infosys. It would have been 8 months but I refused to train the replacement. I have dignity, unlike those who will work for less money than I will.
I also will not knowningly work for a company that fires Americans for cheap labor in india.
President Bush...I hope you or one of your cronies are reading this because for the first time in my life:
1) I will vote...and
2) I will vote straight-party democrat.
Outsourcing is totally UnAmerican and should be made illegal and stopped while we still have an America left. The demanufactoring of America is almost complete. Maybe IT can save itself.
I also will not knowningly work for a company that fires Americans for cheap labor in india.
President Bush...I hope you or one of your cronies are reading this because for the first time in my life:
1) I will vote...and
2) I will vote straight-party democrat.
Outsourcing is totally UnAmerican and should be made illegal and stopped while we still have an America left. The demanufactoring of America is almost complete. Maybe IT can save itself.
And see how your advertisers like it.
Just one of many white collar tasks to be outsourc
Posted by: Anonymous Coward on March 20, 2004 06:34 PM
<A HREF="http://www.enterblog.com/" TITLE="enterblog.com">Offshore Outsourcing</a enterblog.com> is going to creep into many different white collar professions - and perhaps all.
As a coder and a writer, I can attest that the two tasks have many similarities. Both require careful thought and creativity. Both require concentrated domain knowledge and tool knowledge (written english or programming language).
Esp. for tech reporting, there should be little standing in the way of future outsourcing at Builder, or other publishers.
My wife has a small cleaning business. One of her customers lost her job at a very large and famous mutual fund company. Thus resulting in a loss of income for my wife's business. I am currantly looking for anouther outfit to move my IRA into that does not outsource jobs.
What does this have to do with the grand sceme of things. For every job that goes oversees, it takes out income from the US. Think about it. There is less people who can buy stuff and pay taxes. And considering how much money the goverment is spending on things like defense, social securuity and other goverment services...
What does this have to do with the grand sceme of things. For every job that goes oversees, it takes out income from the US. Think about it. There is less people who can buy stuff and pay taxes. And considering how much money the goverment is spending on things like defense, social securuity and other goverment services...
European jobs have been going to Americans
for a long time ( IT, manufacturing )
Fords and Intel cpus infest our shores , when it
should be Siemens and BMWs.
Why whine now that you find that others
( chinese and indians ) can compete with you ?
What happened to your love of "Free Trade" ?
for a long time ( IT, manufacturing )
Fords and Intel cpus infest our shores , when it
should be Siemens and BMWs.
Why whine now that you find that others
( chinese and indians ) can compete with you ?
What happened to your love of "Free Trade" ?
Excuse me...sorry to point this out but Europeans have countless protectionist policies in regards to their economies. The French or UK do not outsource to the US. Does not happen.
Free Traders have two goals:
1) to de-industrialize the United States
2) to remove the middle class and make the US a 3rd world nation where only the very rich and very poor exist.
I wouldn't feel so bad about outsourcing if companies like IBM were holding seminars encouraging it to other smaller companies and devaluing the American citizen.
Outsourcing is far worst than what happened to us on 9/11. Bin Laden is a saint worthing of being first into heaven over CEOs who sell out the American people.
Free Traders have two goals:
1) to de-industrialize the United States
2) to remove the middle class and make the US a 3rd world nation where only the very rich and very poor exist.
I wouldn't feel so bad about outsourcing if companies like IBM were holding seminars encouraging it to other smaller companies and devaluing the American citizen.
Outsourcing is far worst than what happened to us on 9/11. Bin Laden is a saint worthing of being first into heaven over CEOs who sell out the American people.
i don't blame the companies, they have to compete and their competitors and clients are outsourcing and losing money otherwise. don't ask the government for help. tarrifs and taxes are just going to cut the american market out of the world market. the fix needs to do something about the high cost of living and high taxes that make it necessary for americans to need high salaries in the first place. if you can eat and have a roof over your head for what an indian makes, then companies can start looking at home again and comparing abilities and integrity rather than cost.
This could increase my writing income nicely.
Posted by: Anonymous Coward on March 24, 2004 07:57 AM
Since East Indians, after Canadians, are the second most prolific plagiarists of my technical articles, I would welcome seeing my work reprinted in American venues, so that I can just pop down to the local courthouse and file an affordable lawsuit for copyright infringement. Manna from Heaven!
Does anybody know the percent of work that is outsourced to India compared to other countries like Canada, China etc.? Ive heard its a miniscule 8% of total work that is outsourced from America. Work such as technical writing will remain only a trend if India does not deliver quality. So, rather than spreading panic through Tshirts and one-off stories, lets wait and watch.This will be over soon, only for the better.
I am pleased to be informing you , most erudite gentlemen , that as a result of your esteemed management decision makings we will no longer be abled to read your site.
Does anyone here NOT know someone who has lost their jobs because of outsourcing? Take your time..
Folks, as one who is impacted by this. Why let it go and just complain. I am a full time enterprise architect/Development Manager. I write articles of high quality with a substantial readership. I am as disgusted by this as the rest of you. FOR THOSE INTERESTED WHY DONT WE START OUR OWN? Techrepublic started from the COBB report years back. This was a garage startup, why not a new one? What could it hurt? And who knows, we might make a buck or two. My guess is that the quality content we have delivered will be more applicable, more timely and far more easier for those of us in the same sinking ship to take. Face it we don't read this stuff if we were not interested. We do it because it is our passion. If anyone is seriously interested I will be happy to communicate in confidence. Just reply to this.
Re: Why don't we start our own?
Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 128.88.255.35] on September 18, 2007 01:17 AM
Why not. Though I may not be experienced and skilled like you. But I also think its time TO START OUR THING, enough outsourcing and off shoring. Kindly let me know ur ideas in rahuldastidar@gmail.com
There's a saying, "If you throw peanuts, you get monkeys. Cnet is attempting to hire journalists in India for five-hour shifts, five days a weeks at $ 350 a month. Since the internet makes it possible for most of us to write directly for international publications at going rates, one can be certain of what they would get. The issue about India is not quality. It's about money. If you pay right, you get good quality. If throw peanuts, don't complain if you get monkeys. So don't complain Cnet! Don't complain United States of America. Jayanthi Iyengar. Journalist. India. jayanthiiyengar1@hotmail.com
Builder.com outsourcing content production to India
Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 59.160.153.98] on March 03, 2008 09:40 AM
Why such a hue and cry over outsourcing? It has always been there but only now people are noticing. One need to think what can be done to prevent one's job getting outsouced to a third world country where labor is cheap and the wages are megre.
@Why don't we start our own?
Good idea. If you could pull it off, you might become a hero. Best wishes!
@Why don't we start our own?
Good idea. If you could pull it off, you might become a hero. Best wishes!
Why Not?
Posted by: Anonymous Coward on March 19, 2004 08:25 AMAmericans are'nt good at copsition.
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