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Feature: Business
Thoughts about Linspire's approach
By Michael 'STIBS' Stibane
on
April 26, 2004 (8:00:00 AM)
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Reading the comments at some Web sites about Linspire's new open source applications Nvu, Lsongs, and Lphoto inspired me to have a closer look at my own feelings about the three applications, Linspire CEO Michael Robertson's person, and his aggressive way of selling his product.
I've read two reviews of Nvu, a Mozilla Composer-based Web development application, one rather superficial and the other going more into detail, comparing the actual version with Macromedia's Dreamweaver. I've also tested Nvu, and I have to say it's nice for a product at release 0.2 development stage. I teach Web programming from beginner to expert level and Nvu is already fine for intermediate webmaster use if a source code editor is also in reach.
Lsongs, an all-in-one music application for the Linux desktop, can rip, feed your MP3 player, organize the collection, burn playlists, and make mix CDs from your MP3s. It even can stream Internet radio. It's integrated, so it differs from the traditional Unix practice of one app for each task. It support audio in MP3, Ogg, Windows Media, QuickTime, and Real media formats.
Lphoto, a picture manager, offers the same integration as Lsongs. The main features a user wants from photo software is organization, easy access to photos and digital images, and an easy way to publish them in print, on screen, or on the Web. I can tell from a look at the company's screenshot and explanations, Lphoto addresses these needs.
So what do we have here? Three applications for which there is a market demand. How are they being developed? Nvu is an external project supported by Linspire, while the other two are developed in-house ("... in our labs" -- chuckle!). How are they made public? You can download the last two at the Click-N-Run warehouse, where you can also find a small link to the source code of Lsongs and Lphoto. Nvu has its own Web site.
Some comment posters accuse Linspire of using others' code. I don't see anything bad if this is true. This innovation by combining existing solutions with one's own ideas is very common, isn't it? It's the way most of the software we use today was developed.
What really drives the posters mad is the way the programs get introduced and presented to the public. There are community members who just hate Michael Robertson. To me, he is a marketing smartass with the urge to be the center of attention, since being in the news, no matter how good or bad it is, sells products. I personally don't want to have much to do with the kind of person who wants business and success at any price.
On the other hand, I can learn from Robertson, who seems to have done his homework in his field. He utilizes the work of thousands of developers, puts a blue/green L instead the original logo on it, and places a product on the market with the goal to cut some parts for himself out of the OS cake. While I dislike his replacing the logos, it's not forbidden.
Putting the social contract aside, a Linux distributor has to live, and pay his developers, and there are commercial needs behind every company. Linspire's Click-N-Run is one smart way for a Linux company to generate cash, and it has been copied quite often because of its success. I hope Mr. Robertson will show the community more innovative ideas for making money, so everyone can benefit from his marketing and sales talent.
Michael 'STIBS' Stibane lives in an old water mill in the Eastern Ore Mountains (the so-called Christmas County) near Dresden, Germany. He works as a freelance trainer and consultant for Linux, writes for two German Linux magazines, and volunteers for the Escapade Scripting Language, MEPIS Linux, and the LPI. His Linux interests include the desktop, terminal servers, Linux in SMBs, and Linux education.
Lsongs, an all-in-one music application for the Linux desktop, can rip, feed your MP3 player, organize the collection, burn playlists, and make mix CDs from your MP3s. It even can stream Internet radio. It's integrated, so it differs from the traditional Unix practice of one app for each task. It support audio in MP3, Ogg, Windows Media, QuickTime, and Real media formats.
Lphoto, a picture manager, offers the same integration as Lsongs. The main features a user wants from photo software is organization, easy access to photos and digital images, and an easy way to publish them in print, on screen, or on the Web. I can tell from a look at the company's screenshot and explanations, Lphoto addresses these needs.
So what do we have here? Three applications for which there is a market demand. How are they being developed? Nvu is an external project supported by Linspire, while the other two are developed in-house ("... in our labs" -- chuckle!). How are they made public? You can download the last two at the Click-N-Run warehouse, where you can also find a small link to the source code of Lsongs and Lphoto. Nvu has its own Web site.
Some comment posters accuse Linspire of using others' code. I don't see anything bad if this is true. This innovation by combining existing solutions with one's own ideas is very common, isn't it? It's the way most of the software we use today was developed.
What really drives the posters mad is the way the programs get introduced and presented to the public. There are community members who just hate Michael Robertson. To me, he is a marketing smartass with the urge to be the center of attention, since being in the news, no matter how good or bad it is, sells products. I personally don't want to have much to do with the kind of person who wants business and success at any price.
On the other hand, I can learn from Robertson, who seems to have done his homework in his field. He utilizes the work of thousands of developers, puts a blue/green L instead the original logo on it, and places a product on the market with the goal to cut some parts for himself out of the OS cake. While I dislike his replacing the logos, it's not forbidden.
Putting the social contract aside, a Linux distributor has to live, and pay his developers, and there are commercial needs behind every company. Linspire's Click-N-Run is one smart way for a Linux company to generate cash, and it has been copied quite often because of its success. I hope Mr. Robertson will show the community more innovative ideas for making money, so everyone can benefit from his marketing and sales talent.
Michael 'STIBS' Stibane lives in an old water mill in the Eastern Ore Mountains (the so-called Christmas County) near Dresden, Germany. He works as a freelance trainer and consultant for Linux, writes for two German Linux magazines, and volunteers for the Escapade Scripting Language, MEPIS Linux, and the LPI. His Linux interests include the desktop, terminal servers, Linux in SMBs, and Linux education.
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I really agree with everything you asserted. I do not like the "narcist" model of the person Robertson either.
However, Lindows does give back. Lindows supported WINE. Lindows supported kde-look.org. Lindows hires Linux developers. And there are more examples. Now, these 3 programs show they also develop Free Software in-house thus supporting the community directly. Great. It creates confidence. Novell does the same with ie. YaST and iFolder.
The problem i have with Lindows rather lies in the person Robertson. He had MP3.com and sold it which makes him rich. That's his right. But after that, MP3.com faded away and is now under corporate DRM control. You see, that doesn't give much confidence wether it more than remotely related to Lindows or not.
OTOH i also see him a bit like a pioneer and i admire him for his idealism. I hope it isn't only about money for him, but the question rather in which extend for what?
However, Lindows does give back. Lindows supported WINE. Lindows supported kde-look.org. Lindows hires Linux developers. And there are more examples. Now, these 3 programs show they also develop Free Software in-house thus supporting the community directly. Great. It creates confidence. Novell does the same with ie. YaST and iFolder.
The problem i have with Lindows rather lies in the person Robertson. He had MP3.com and sold it which makes him rich. That's his right. But after that, MP3.com faded away and is now under corporate DRM control. You see, that doesn't give much confidence wether it more than remotely related to Lindows or not.
OTOH i also see him a bit like a pioneer and i admire him for his idealism. I hope it isn't only about money for him, but the question rather in which extend for what?
"He had MP3.com and sold it which makes him rich. That's his right. But after that, MP3.com faded away and is now under corporate DRM control."
Um... Once it is sold, he does not have control. How is MP3.com's current state Mr. Robertson's fault? He sold it. Someone else put it "under corporate DRM control."
I am no big fan of Robertson or Lindows/Linspire but to pin changes at MP3.com that happened AFTER he sold it is just out of line.
Um... Once it is sold, he does not have control. How is MP3.com's current state Mr. Robertson's fault? He sold it. Someone else put it "under corporate DRM control."
I am no big fan of Robertson or Lindows/Linspire but to pin changes at MP3.com that happened AFTER he sold it is just out of line.
SGI is selling Alias (Maya) but _with_ an agreement. An agreement means most likely less money, but it can be done.
Nobody noticed where lsongs and lphoto took "inspiration"?
http://www.apple.com/ilife/iphoto/
Do you really think that emulating Apple iTunes and iPhoto is the way to go to have a better linux desktop environment?
I personally believe that apps like PixiePlus or juK do the same job in an original way... and that's the way to go! Emulating in a VERY POOR way, is just sensless!
By the way i expect some kind of sue from Apple soon.
http://www.apple.com/ilife/iphoto/
Do you really think that emulating Apple iTunes and iPhoto is the way to go to have a better linux desktop environment?
I personally believe that apps like PixiePlus or juK do the same job in an original way... and that's the way to go! Emulating in a VERY POOR way, is just sensless!
By the way i expect some kind of sue from Apple soon.
That's indeed a big problem they could have pretty quicly, especially with such a stupidly reminiscent naming.
Some people never lean
Some people never lean
When an interface from an existing application is used to code a program from scratch, people argue
1) It is a clone, not original, copycat;
2) The interface is convenient.
>> Example: LPhoto, AMSN, XPde, LSongs.
When an original, non-standard interface is used it is called
1) Innovative;
2) The interface is hard to use.
>> Example: Blender, The GIMP, Enlightenment.
Because of that, people always find a reason to whine.
FYI: it still requires creativity to CODE the application. It just requires less RESEARCH for the INTERFACE.
1) It is a clone, not original, copycat;
2) The interface is convenient.
>> Example: LPhoto, AMSN, XPde, LSongs.
When an original, non-standard interface is used it is called
1) Innovative;
2) The interface is hard to use.
>> Example: Blender, The GIMP, Enlightenment.
Because of that, people always find a reason to whine.
FYI: it still requires creativity to CODE the application. It just requires less RESEARCH for the INTERFACE.
I agree completely!
Make it "innovative," complaints are that it is non-standard. Make it "standard," complaints are that it is not innovative.
I say do what you want because someone will find somthing to complain about whatever you do.
Make it "innovative," complaints are that it is non-standard. Make it "standard," complaints are that it is not innovative.
I say do what you want because someone will find somthing to complain about whatever you do.
Linspire only pushes the open source logic to its commercial maximum.
What mainly lacking is not applications but the advertising around it. Digikam is great for example but the project contributors can't afford an advertising campaign !
Desktop Linux distros should really do a bit of common marketing, showing off the best of what the open source world has to offer, since they are marketing it. I find distros are too lazy or timid and wait for projects to make a name for themnselves instead of helping that. The problem is that it will never replace advertising to the non linux world magasines and websites.
Suse, Mandrake, Xandros, lycoris, Libranet should do that together and on the long run, if they are so much more community spirited than Linspire.
What mainly lacking is not applications but the advertising around it. Digikam is great for example but the project contributors can't afford an advertising campaign !
Desktop Linux distros should really do a bit of common marketing, showing off the best of what the open source world has to offer, since they are marketing it. I find distros are too lazy or timid and wait for projects to make a name for themnselves instead of helping that. The problem is that it will never replace advertising to the non linux world magasines and websites.
Suse, Mandrake, Xandros, lycoris, Libranet should do that together and on the long run, if they are so much more community spirited than Linspire.
The link below is to an article written months ago titled GNU/Linux Home Desktop Kit PC Project: Why not Lindows. You might find it interesting that the author advocates that Lindows open it's base and make their money by adding the much needed peripheral support and services that Home desktop users need. The article actually names an example of one of the services they might provide called LinTunes music dowloading service. I wonder if Lindows was listening.
Also there is a contest that will begin in mid May at http://thelinuxbox.org that is based on this series of articles at oSviews. All 5 parts of the series can be found on the oSviews top 100 page.
The Why not Lindows article is number 40 on this oSviews top 100 page.
http://osviews.com/
Also there is a contest that will begin in mid May at http://thelinuxbox.org that is based on this series of articles at oSviews. All 5 parts of the series can be found on the oSviews top 100 page.
The Why not Lindows article is number 40 on this oSviews top 100 page.
http://osviews.com/
Here is the article part that mentions LinTunes
Posted by: Anonymous Coward on April 26, 2004 08:38 PM
Imagine for a moment that the core system, freely available to anyone, as I pointed out in the first article in this series, and the proprietary distros opened up, and used the community's core. To a small home-town white box builder or enthusiast who doesn't have the resources to provide 24-hour customer support, remote automatic security, application updates, or comprehensive full-service warehousing of third-party commercial software application the resource would prove invaluable. Similarly, this core system might also offer content services such as LinTunes, LycPicks or XanPhony music download services. This is really only the beginning. The sky is the limit.
You can't make a profit of open source!
It's just plain and morally wrong!
(NOT)<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;)
It's just plain and morally wrong!
(NOT)<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;)
I think they turn a profit also.
Actually together with Playfair and itms4all it might even become a killer app; "iTunes for Linux"
...are great Linux applications. I've used Nvu, Lphoto and Lsongs, and I can say these three products are much needed and welcome products for those using Linux on their desktop.
You have to realize that Linspire isn't creating products for the "geek" crowd (there's not enough geeks to have much of a business there). They are trying to take desktop Linux to the average computer user.
In Mexico, Linspire computers are available in over 800 Elektra stores (Elektra is the Wal-Mart of Mexico) and Elektra reports that the Linspire computers OUTSELL THE MS WINDOWS computers! So, for the thousands of people who are buying their first computer, and it ends up being a Linspire computer, programs such as Lsongs and Lphoto are CRITICAL.
Kudo's to Lindows on a job well done.
Roger
You have to realize that Linspire isn't creating products for the "geek" crowd (there's not enough geeks to have much of a business there). They are trying to take desktop Linux to the average computer user.
In Mexico, Linspire computers are available in over 800 Elektra stores (Elektra is the Wal-Mart of Mexico) and Elektra reports that the Linspire computers OUTSELL THE MS WINDOWS computers! So, for the thousands of people who are buying their first computer, and it ends up being a Linspire computer, programs such as Lsongs and Lphoto are CRITICAL.
Kudo's to Lindows on a job well done.
Roger
my only problem is I can get into the preferences dialog and change any settings, and I don't want the app copying 8gigs of music into my home directory. I tried to write email to the address in the source, but it bounced back as invalid user.
Scott
Scott
Ive been running the last few versions of lsongs on mdk 10 without too much problems, except for not being able to read from cd's with t so far due to a pluging problem with xine.
But just noticed that the link to the source for lsongs has now vanished ?
has someone stolen it, or do they not want it appearing on other Linux versions ?!
But just noticed that the link to the source for lsongs has now vanished ?
has someone stolen it, or do they not want it appearing on other Linux versions ?!
The LSongs source download has gone; but LPhoto is done in PyQt (http://www.riverbankcomputing.co.uk, http://www.opendocs.org/pyqt), showing that it's indeed possible to do desktop apps in a managed language. Good decision on Linspire's part<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-)
I have it right here on my HDD. It is under the GPL, so if you want it, drop a line.
Thanks -- but I found out that it's still downloadable, if you construct the URL analogous to the LPhoto URL:
<A HREF="http://software.linspire.com/emptypool/lindowsos/pool/main/l/lsongs/lsongs_0.1.0b6-0.0.0.45.lindows0.1.tar.gz" TITLE="linspire.com">lsongs</a linspire.com>
They're also using <A HREF="http://www.die-offenbachs.de/detlev/eric3.html" TITLE="die-offenbachs.de">eric</a die-offenbachs.de> for their development -- another wise choice.
<A HREF="http://software.linspire.com/emptypool/lindowsos/pool/main/l/lsongs/lsongs_0.1.0b6-0.0.0.45.lindows0.1.tar.gz" TITLE="linspire.com">lsongs</a linspire.com>
They're also using <A HREF="http://www.die-offenbachs.de/detlev/eric3.html" TITLE="die-offenbachs.de">eric</a die-offenbachs.de> for their development -- another wise choice.
intalar
juninho
otimo
Use the source...
Posted by: Galik on April 26, 2004 05:16 PMActually if you look at the tabs at the bottom of the editor window you'll see one of them says <HTML> Source. Clicking on that presents you with the source code for the page you're looking at<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)
Appart from a couple of anoying bugs Nvu looks like it's going to be great. It's already pretty useful.
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