Linux.com

The latest debian installers for sarge
have come a long way.

Debian's package update system is second to none.

Many interfaces are available for it
apt-get
aptitude
dselect
synaptic
kpackage
gnome-apt etc.

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I find this is frequently claimed by people who've never used another package update system, except maybe Sun's awful pkg* tools... Have you used urpmi or up2date or yum?

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Well, urpmi is good, and I've never tried yum, but up2date is a pile of dogshit. Hell, I'd rather use a pile of dogshit as my package manager than up2date.

Apt still beats them all, though. And its not debian-only, you can use apt pretty much anywhere nowadays.

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yum sucks too!! it is slooooooow!! I used it for 6 months on fedora 1/2 before switching to debian!!

Apt is ALOT better

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Apt runs on Fedora you know? I've been using APT on Fedora since I first installed Fedora. I haven't tried Yum though.

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Sorry but urpmi just plain sucks. It's cumbersome and dosn't work as it should.

apt-get, emerge etc all work as expected and do what they are supposed to.

Oh and background: I went from RH -> MDK -> Gentoo -> Debian.

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Good path, just one step to far!<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;)

Portage is clearly the winner in this respect

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I just finished the travelling same path at the grandparent (RedHat - Mandrake - Gentoo - Debian). I was able to set up in a day with Debian what I struggled with for three weeks with Gentoo - namely a server with Apache, PHP, mod_auth_ldap and MySQL. PHP wanted Apache2, while mod_auth_ldap wanted Apache1.3, etc. etc. Mucho dependancy problems, even with something this simple. Portage is a very good system, but it still needs some refinement before I would trust Gentoo with a production server. If I was setting up a desktop (for myself) I would probably give Gentoo a try in that role.

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Gentoo is great for the tweaker, the "I want everything optimised and compiled for my system cause I want to sqeese those last 2 nanoseconds speed out of it" type.
Gentoo is in my opinion a great distribution, but -WAY- too slow to manage.
Compiling OpenOffice and you've wasted your youth doing that, cause on a small system it takes ~24 hours.
Now the upsides to Gentoo is a lot of the packages are available as easy to install emerge commands, far more -new- packages than many of the others.

Debian is my distro of preference, due to several reasons.
It's easy to install, it's not hard to install, Slackware is easier to install than debian, gentoo is harder (a lot if you don't read the manual).
Maintaining Debian is a dream, you don't have to wait days for it to update the entire system. Running Stable you're pretty certain that there are no real issues with the packages etc.

Debian > * When it comes to what distro to use for a server<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)

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Why am I not surprised that some Debian person start's bragging about apt? Well if you like old, infrequently updated or unstable distro's you'll get fairly well along with debian. Simply use stable, testing or unstable. If those three choices are not for you, start mangling trees and be welcomed in Debian hell.

While I can sort of understand that people like apt, I always found it cumbersome and usually not doing what I want it to do. But that's just me I guess.

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Hey, let's further (some of) the popular stereotypes surrounding the various distributions. Let's simplify other people's choices of distribution down to pseudo-teenage MTV-like standards. Let's feed the trolls instead of encourage cooperation and the very thing that has brought us this wonderful OS: Cooperation and levelheaded competition. Yay.

(For the record: I use (not entirely by choice, but by profession) various distributions and tend to like most of them, even though I mostly run one of them at home, mainly because of personal taste, not because of stereotype personality features).

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Let me guess, you're British and have strong sense of irony? You're East Coast with a well rounded personality? Hang on, let me guess

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Yep, you're right. Sorry.
I re-read the article, and now it's soo funny! I've never seen this kind of original stuff before, a total eye-opener.
Like mushrooms, but without the illegal part.

You were almost right in your guessing too. I'm swedish. That's close enough to most people I guess.

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and it made me laugh.

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Agreed, but the grandfather post exhibits the main problem with the Linux community: a good majority of it's members are fags.

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Now you're getting in stride -- althought I suggest that you lose the derogatory language and attitude. It kinda sucks the joy out of a humor piece.

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He he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he h eh eh eh eheh eh ehehehe eh eheehe eh eh ehehe eh ehehe eh ehe heehe eh

Now switch to OS X. Well.. if you want to get some _work_ done; say writing Latex using TexShop or perhaps draw some figures using Omnigraffle.. Or.. eh.. maybe just reading Word documents?
I mean, I like Linux, and have been using it since compiling a 1.2 kernel on my dad's 486.. Ah back in the days.. Hmm.. Anyone know why they swithced from 586 to Pentium? Can't copyright a number.. Hmm.. Anyways. You do WORK, you use OS X, you need the computer to do work for you, you use linux.

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When I need to work - I use Linux.
When I need my computer to do work - I use Linux.
When I just wish to chat with friends, watch a movie, listen to music, or just browse the web - I use Linux.
When I want to play games - I use both Linux and Windows.
When I want to use a crappy 1 button mouse - I use OS X.

Just because you do work on OS X doesn't mean other people even can stand going near it.

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twat.

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Hey, let's play a game. Let's see just what kind of putz you are.

Let's say you pasted in the word naïve.
Or, perhaps you searched the web for the ASCII code.

Option #1 means you are a jackass.
Option #2 means you are a jackass egoïste.

-----------
Yay for me, I sound smarterest!

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Where is slackware on the list?

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Maybe Slackware is the invisible distribution?

I've never used Slackware so it's hard for me to lampoon it. Perhaps you would like to email me a paragraph, and I'll add it.

Joe

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Email me a paragraph lampooning Ubuntu users and I will add it.

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Slackware, a distro "Just for Men".

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khm khm<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...
yeah right just for men<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;-)

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Slackware... the name says it all.

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Slackware runs <A HREF="http://www.spamgourmet.com/" title="spamgourmet.com">http://www.spamgourmet.com/</a spamgourmet.com> -- it's great for setting up a minimalist (read: probably more secure) special purpose deployment

And yes, I'm the "tar -zxf;configure;make;make test;make install" kind of user -- it worked in 1993 and it still works today [ducks]

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>>
And yes, I'm the "tar -zxf;configure;make;make test;make install" kind of user -- it worked in 1993 and it still works today
>>

Amen.

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Make test?

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Yeah, it'll run an test scripts in a test directory to insure that make was successful before running make install, useful if an app can build but still not work correctly in some cases.

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apt-get -f upgrade
apt-get -f remove packagename

I don't use slackware just because only Debian has super cow powers.

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apt-get is dpackage with even more things wrong. Pretend you have a dialup connection or other lousy connection, or are low on space, or don't have too much time, or a slow processor. Now apt-get sucks.

Ok, pretend you have program-1.10 that has features x,y,z that you use every day. You want to install proggie-1.0 which requires the completely redesigned and incompatible program-2.0.

You apt-get blindly the proggie and apt-get blows away program-1.10 and replaces it with program-2.0.

NONE OF THIS HAPPENS IN SLACKWARE

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upgradepkg
removepkg

and yes, it will not erase your old config files, but that isnt a bug, its a feature...
if you want to clean then up, erase then your self, let not any script destroy users info, let the user decide WHAT, WHEN and HOW to destroy things

and by the way, you can use swaret and others to fetch packages, and to those you have to compile, dont forget to use checkconfig if you want to manage that software as a normal package

like always, the admin decides what and how to do, not the machine or someone else

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Slackware is just an honest linux distro with no special gimmicks and no axe to grind. It will never be a 'corporate' distro, and it isn't under the sway of RMS type zealots. You'll have all neet stuff that the average home linux user wants.
Even if you use something else at work, you'll like Slackware at home.

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People who USE this would likely not be happy with Slack. However; I use it and like it and see no reason to change, but then I still like FVWM.

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Good old fvwm! Use it at work. (On Slashdot, I'm fvwmfan)

Just reading all the comments from Slackware users - I think I just got converted!

Up till now, have stuck to RedHat 7.1 . At work, use Fedora and Suse 9.1 .

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Where? In the distro-graveyard.

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Nonsense. it's still a fantastic server distro. simple, clean, and super stable.

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hohoh in the distro graveyard. puhlease. supplicant grovel before the great patrick volkerding...

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Running my gateway.

My desktop is FVWM 2.5.12 on Debian 3.1 (`cat<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/etc/debian_version`).

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its for those who like to know how it all really works

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Slackware is for crazy folk

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"Slackware users are grumpy, bearded old Unix sysadmins who prefer things be done the "good old fashioned way", making their Linux distro stick to traditional Unix principles, through 10 feet of snow, uphill, both ways!"

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Except for the "bearded" and "grumpy" bit, that description seems to apply to me.
maybe we can also add this to the Slackware user description:
You like to be in exact control of what your system does and want to be able to customize and tweak your system to optimal performance.
You are a techie and proud of it and you dislike "easy linux installations".

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Eh.. when you add all that, you really get a gentoo user. (Spoken by a proud ex-slackware user and a proud current gentoo user.)

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heh, why not both? i run gentoo on my desktop and slackware on the server... not to mention crux ppc on my dad's ibook (text-only install too<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)
i've also got the bearded and grumpy thing down, despite being 16

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Nah, gentoo isn't stable enough for production. Any slack admin knows that.

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Though I am only 25, I am bearded, and I do stick to the 'good old fashioned way' - thus slackware is my choice of distro.

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Wow, odd that. I'm not old, I CAN be grumpy.. and I do have a fashionable Go-T... but I simply love Slackware... muh! Maybe I was just too lazy to try any other of the hundreds of distros out there.

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I am a grumpy person, I have never used Unix, and I am 18 years old... and i use Slack.

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Well, I'm can definitely be grumpy, but it's more along the lines of insane. I'm not old, and as for traditional UNIX principals and the good old way? Frankly, it's the only distro I can take unmodified sources and have it work 90% of the time. Slackware is clean, minimal, fast, and works. Plus, with a modicum of effort (read: organization/motivation) its very easy to keep it up to date.

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Yes, we are old, bearded, and grumpy... Because we worry about other things so much it's nice to have a stable OS that gives you enough slack so you don't have to worry about it. Do I want to compile a new app? No problem! Do I need to upgrade a couple of apps? No problem!

I tried going back to RH but when I tried to re-compile SSH (so I wouldn't have a gaping security hole) I gave up because of the missing libraries. Then I remembered RPM... and after failing on the third dependency I started getting flash backs to the old IRIX days and chucked it.

Slackware is the only OS where I've been able to upgrade KDE wholesale, without any issues. I can completely remove the packages and install the new ones. When I tried that with RH (because the updates wouldn't take) I had to rebuild the OS from scratch. Heck, with Slackware I've been able to install new window managers without any problems! If I want EVILwm I have it.

Slackware frees my grumpiness for things that matter, like when to shave. With Slackware I don't have to squander my age with a lack of choice.

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hey how funny, with the exception of the bearded and
old parts most slackware users i know (including myself) fit that discription well. slackware is for people who like consistency, almost every release from them i've used at one point or another and every one of them is stable, fast and efficient.

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Seems to fit me also except for the bearded part, Slackware for life<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)

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praise bob!

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Hey!
I resemble that remark!

Not grumpy, just irratated at little kids who think that they know everything.

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As a parent, remember to kick your kids into getting a job WHILE THEY KNOW EVERYTHING! (g)

BTW - Slackin' since 1994 - wife won't let be grow a beard (g).

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Slackware was good in 1995, and it's still my favorite distro now that it's almost 2005.

I like Gentoo a lot, and have installed and admin'd Redhat, Mandrake, & Debian for people, but in the end, give me my good old slackware and I'm happy.

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I love my slackware. Always used it, from the begining (~1994/5). Now with 10, 2.6.8

With slack I have learned, really learned; how things are done, what is the idea behind linux/unix.

I was not afraid to compile the kernel for the first time, it was more like natural to do it, do my own upgrades, from source of course. You really learn how this stuff works.

Have worked with RH, suse, debian; but I will always stay with slackware, I not going back.

I really wonder why the other distros, beside debian, are so complicated just to configure eth0!!! Take a look at suse! Or even worse iptables, that hurts!

In slack: simple, natural.

And never a system that is mantained by me has been cracked. Maybe luck, but I don't think so.

So maybe, that good old ways, sysadmin, is just me<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:) I have a life with that.

Ivan

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Ahh Slackware! My first Linux distro. I remember downloading it a disk at a time on my 386 over 14.4 modem. I still have those disks, although they long ago became unreadable. I still keep the name that Slackware defaulted my original box to "darkstar" on my main box.

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I've used numerous distributions over the years, and Slackware is the only one I actually enjoy using. I, too, am one of those tar xzvf;<nobr> <wbr></nobr>./configure; make; make install; make clean; folk. I remember older versions of Slack being a little difficult to set up, but the new version is just as easy as XP. Slackware just has a certain "feeling" that no other distro even comes close to matching.

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Slackware users hate change, unless they are the first to make the change. They laugh at the work Gentoo'ers go to compile everything because we've been doing it for years. We think debian users are fools because of their values, Mandrake users are silly because we like TWM, RedHat users are greedy because we can do it all for free and most of all the others are pointless because why change unless we did it first?

gk karges @ coco-butter . org

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yawn. i can't believe this article is getting linked anywhere. guys like this author are the ones who promote the "lame geek" stereotype.

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LOL! exactly!!

This article was lame, pointlessly biased, and not worthy of publication on slashdot, aside from being able to show everyone how lame the author is!

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Slackware is not for newbies! so.. is not trying to help the newbies ones...

Slack rlz<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)

Zippo.

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Actully i would say slackware is the best newbie distro.
Because if u use slack u know how things work.
And u can manage all distros on the market.
If u learn slackware u know how to do things.
And u might even discover the power of console over gui.

The more linux u go, The slacker u get<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;)

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I have read translation of this article in Russian. In it was spoken " the basic users Slackware is Russian physicists. " It is wrong translation, but it precisely characterizes Slackware. Best regards from Russia.
Physicist from russia.

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Same thing - I saw the russian translation with
joke about russian physicists, then cake up here and found most descriptions of slackware-users
appliable to myself. I really used Slack in 96, but now I choose FreeBSD, maybe because I'm more russian mathematician than physicist.

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www.ubuntulinux.org

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You demand excellence, wanting the best of both worlds: bleeding edge apps and a stable desktop.

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Bleading edge apps? You wish. The only bleading edge thing in ubunty is gnome and a couple of other gnome related apps. Props for the addoption of project Utopia but that's where my appreciation ends.

It would be a little bit more acurate if you say that: using debian scares you but you still can't live without binaries<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...

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I agree and disagree: the install configured my wireless which i REALLY did not expect but the firefox shipped with ubuntu does not meet my expectations. They're still using 0.9.3! I might as well be using debian (:

I'm going back to slackware

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Go to MEPIS...I tried Ubuntu for a month...really really gave it a try and found it far to simple for my tastes.

MEPIS is the best damn desktop out there for Linux.

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Ditto, got to love this distro, had it on my R51 for the past few weeks and I've got to say I love it. It took me quite a while to get Debian to behave like Ubuntu does out of the box. Plus 6 month releases and a dead simple install? I'm sold.

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<TT>Humor, kids.  It's supposed to be tongue in cheek.  No need to get up in arms about it.

My only complaint is he left Slackware off the list! </TT>

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No!! I demand that ALL posts on the internet are in no way humorous and all are subject to flame wars!! (gnashing of teeth)

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Hex is for sissies.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;)

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It's supposed to be tongue in cheek.

Obviously it's intended to be funny. But if that's the best that Joe Barr can do as humor, I'd seriously recommend that he stick with his day job and not set his heart on becoming a scriptwriter for Rodney Dangerfield..

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We count in hex. Get it right.

And yes, Debian's installer does suck.

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I'm curious - exactly what do you think sucks about it? The only thing I've ever frowned about in it is the lack of RAID configuration at the installation.

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I've always liked the Debian installer, too. Once you're used to it, its rather nice.

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I use Debian on my server(s), and I've just started using Ubuntu as my desktop distro. Both use the Debian installer, though Ubuntu's is slightly simplified.

The only thing "wrong" with the Debian installer that I can see is that it isn't as purty as the graphics-based ones for RedHat, SuSE, and the like.

Technically, the Debian installer seems to do everything fine. Never had a problem with it, on the many systems I've used it on.

Nick

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Installers are for women!<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;)

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When ever I've used the Debian installer I find that it keeps trying to make me do the work of figuring out what kernel modules you need and crap like that.

I've tried to test Debian a few times, but I find that it doesn't even configure enough stuff to be able to connect to the internet. Debian needs better automatic configuration.

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What about people who make their own distro?

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You're gay?

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Or masochistic, but that's the same thing, right?

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lol

not really - plenty of gay sadists around.

not to mention vanilla gays

Plenty of striaght masochists around too

Me? Well my shoulders are still hurting from being cuffed to the ceiling and being beaten by a pair of lesbians this weekend.

Oh and I use debian

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Gentoo has all the scripts, bits and peices, you have to put it together like Ikea furnature. LFS, you have to cut down the trees, process the wood, , design the furnature, then build it.

John Wayne would use *BSD anyways. (inset<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/. BSD/John Wayne is dead joke here)

But of course, choice of a distro, (at least at first) falls into "follow what your friends have done so they can help you" rule.

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But of course, choice of a distro, (at least at first) falls into "follow what your friends have done so they can help you" rule.

I followed that rule, and he was using Slackware. He's no longer my friend.

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Ah, but for us home crafters and hobbyists, LFS is the killer choice - rather like those kits you could buy from the old Popular Science, where they sent you all the parts and instructions and you could put it together in your (heated) garage on cold, boring winter nights.

Robert C. Worstell

<A HREF="http://worstellr.blogspot.com/" title="blogspot.com">A Midwest Journal</a blogspot.com>

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Distributions are for whimps.

Obtain http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/Historic/l<nobr>i<wbr></nobr> nux-0.01.tar.gz
and start building your kernel and system from there.

You'll learn Unix on the side.

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I'm gathering some sand and I'm gonna fab my own CPU

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That's for whimps, you should start creating your own sand from a sub-atomic level if you really want to know what you're doing.

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Get a life, idiot!

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Do you ever get the urge to go back to the good old Victorian days? No we are not whimps, we are just higher on the evolutionary scale!.
If a monkey could operate a cherry picker, do you think it would still climb trees. NO. it's called progress son.. go and look it up.. better still compile your own dictionary, that should keep you happy.....

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i'm guessing the author of this article really doesn't know what they are talking about.

if a general broad statement is made about an os, suse for example about the placement of files i would like an explaination of what specifically they mean.

there is many standards,opinions and other ways of doing things. init scripts in<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/sbin vs<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/etc/rc.d, xinetd vs inetd<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/opt vs<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/usr/local etc.. etc..

not to mention, you didn't even mention that yast is probably just as easy as click and run and twice as sexy<nobr> <wbr></nobr>..

'msft core fonts' right in the online update, how cool is that?

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HUMOR. Jesus christ no wonder everyone on the outside world thinks Geeks/Linux/etc are weirdos.

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people like you are sooooo unfun.

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..I know exactly what the writer meant!
for instance, WTF is this directory<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/srv doing on my system? Apache doesn't put it here by default!

Why does SuSE have to be so....Germanically Different<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;-)

Loved the article - thanks for the chuckle.
Effect:
snort coffee |<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/usr/nose ><nobr> <wbr></nobr>/dev/keyboard

-Andy

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and proof of that: the author assumed knoppix users booted from the cd as opposed to making a debian install to the hard drive and now work with a debian set up...

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"you didn't even mention that yast is probably just as easy as click and run and twice as sexy"

Yes, as long as the mirrors don't go up and down like yo-yos! How long do the source settings stay valid until someone decides to move the directories????

I speak as a slightly frustrated Suse and Mandrake user.

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I like beer, horns and green eggs and I've been known to get aggresive and shove live cd's into people's pc.

So it's no wonder I use SuSE on my laptop and knoppix on my other box.

thnx, made me laugh.

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I think it's quite obvious that this was written by a Mandrake fanboy. It's the only distro that didn't get bashed<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... and instead was pampered beyond belief. I thought this thing would say things like, "Slackware/Debian/... users enjoy being able to actually SEE linux." I had Mandrake installed once<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... for one day. Then I realized that it was just an operating system for people who don't want to know just what operating system they're using. So you know what, Joe Barr? Mandrake sucks. Yeah<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... yeah<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... take that. You and your little distro can go live your happy little lives. Just don't tell the other people how much the and *their* distro sucks.

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Actually, SUSE has been my distribution of choice since Red Hat stopped offering a desktop for home users. I'm glad that you didn't pick up on that from the article, or else I would have failed in trying to lampoon everyone equally.

Joe Barr

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I beg to differ. There were at least 2 points in there that you probably didn't spot, namely (1)Mandrake is only a desktop distro, not a server one, and (2)Mandrake users don't care about freedom.
Of course, I see the funny side to the stereotype,
but guess what - I use Mdk on a server! And actually, all of Mandrake's core must be GPL-compatible. (The wretched non-free stuff is only in the boxed sets.) Mdk don't even include pine because it isn't properly open source - it has to end up on the "penguin liberation front".

But seriously, it was a funny article<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-)

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lets hope so. Mandrake is the best of the best.
look at all the grouchy people.
rolling on the floor laughing.

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On a serious note, if the European Parliment rejects software patents I for one will switch to an independent Euro disro (Mandrake) as fast as you can say "fdisk".

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Actually I think the

"and are far less concerned about where things are kept in the filesystem than they ought to be."

is a little more fitting for Mandrake as alot of files are not where you expect them to be. Such a hassle to have to debug make files to compile anything on Mandrake. It's a cool distro and it does run better than a Citreon.

I started with Slackware on a 386 back in 1993. More recently, I have been running Mandrake. After a year and tons of make file editing, I have switched from Mandrake to SUSE for my primary desktop machine. What can I say, pure sloth and lazyness. I try to run Lunar Linux on my other box. Lunar is an entertaining distro. It sort of like juggling chaninsaws,katanas, and a lit stick of dynamite. Very bloody at times. When Lunar runs, it tends to run alot like a Citreon.

Damn, why is the car's engine making that funny noise when I smash down on the brake pedal?

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I think people choosing linux depends on what they want to do and how they want to get to where they are going.

Me, I have been a linux user since 95.

I use Xandros OCE for my desktop at home and office.
Lindows for my laptop, since it was the only distribution which did not have me pull my hair out configuring my wifi card.

I use knoppix/Mephis/SuSE live CD when I travel on work to use the Desktops in my remote location, since I cannot stand using Windows.

I think this article is for making people chose a distro as per the author wants, just like when people ask you to wear levis jeans even though wrangler or eddie bauver jeans fits you best.

It is a waste of time to write such articles, instead you should be asking people to try out all the distributions and let them make up their own mind as to what fits them best.

For me I do not want to mess around with 3500 applications, I want KDE, openoffice, a good admin tool to configure my desktop, a good tool to add software I want and mozilla, opera, kmail, evolution, gaim and knotes.

Each user should decide this themselves than try to stereo type them and make them shy of certain distributions they might chose on their own accord.

These are my thoughts.
-GGR
Rajiv G Gunja

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It's a HUMOR piece. It even SAYS so right at the top. You are just as sad as all the other lusers who don't get it. And you cannot be trusted to read even simple instructions.

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Not a word about Fedora ?

This news is a joke !

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I was thinking the same. Perhaps "Those who sought to seperate from the King George of Redhat to the less demanding world of George "Fedora Wearing" Washington." Though I know many will jump on the "short life span" rant I hear daily from my co-worker (a lover of CentOS mind you).

Obviously biased towards mandrake, I'd happily say Mandrake is for those who seek windows, but want the Linux brag.

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I forget to say that I used all versions of Redhat since 5.0 to 9 and the evolution to Fedora Core 1 and 2 was a no brainer.

It has the advantages to work extremely well and be a little more on the cutting edge than any previous RedHat distro.

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RedHat/Fedora/CentOS/WhiteBox they're all the same. Based on RedHat's packages

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Gnome 2.8 is absolutlely stable (unlike a certain harddrive looking at all those distros you have had) on Fedora Core 3, to the extent that it is the default GUI. I have no problems with it, I too work on systems all day, and have never lost a single byte of data with it. I agree with you about SuSe being there when you want it, however it's like busses none for a year then 3 in six months. Give FC3 a look you might be pleasently shocked by there latest incarnation...

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Fedora is a joke. I was a faithful RedHat user up till 9, tried Fedora, went back to RedHat 9. Tried Fedora Core 2, went back to RedHat 9. Tried SuSE 9.1, and stayed. You can't hit a moving target, meaning Fedora moves WAY too fast for it to stablize. Cutting edge is cool, but stable is a LOT better. I work on computers all day, and when I come home in the evening, I want to know that my shit just works. SuSE 9.1 does that for me, and I'm using Gnome 2.8. Can Fedora brag about a stable, cutting edge Gnome environment? I don't think so. RedHat signed their own death certificate when they abandoned the home users to Fedora.

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Can Fedora brag about a stable, cutting edge Gnome environment? I don't think so. RedHat signed their own death certificate when they abandoned the home users to Fedora.

Hmm. No problems here. Then again, I'm a KDE user<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:) (No, I don't want to start a KDE/Gnome pissing contest just yet).

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I hope that your statement is a joke. If not than you don't know what you're talking about. Get Fedora Core 3rc5 or wait a week for the stable release. If fc3 doesn't meet your needs than you need some proffesional help.

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If you read and understood my post then you would see I stated that SuSE meets my need. I won't use Fedora and will never recommend it to my clients. Everything in SuSE just works, unlike the tweaks that have to be made in Fedora to get things like MPlayer to play DVDs or installing a patch to make Xmms play mp3 files. Yes, I use Ogg, also, but I have over 8 GB of mp3s (all of which I personally own the cds) that go way back, I am am NOT going to re-encode them just because the distro doesn't want to chance it. Fedora is the distro for people who want to constantly fight with apps to make them work, just like Gentoo is the distro for people into inflicting unneeded pain on themselves to get the OS installed.

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Is that what I've been doing?! Could of though I was learning to solve problems that arise as I progress further into installing Gentoo. Dang, maybe I sould go to a distro that does it for me so when something breaks I won't know what the heck to do.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)

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I haven't had to tweak any programs to get mp3s and dvds to work. All you got to do is add a couple repositories to your apt/yum list, and then update. The repositories are listed all over.

And its odd you switched from RedHat (gnome loving distro), to SuSE (KDE loving distro).

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It sounds like youre affraid of taking uo an challange<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)

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then Mandrake is the distro u should be using.
its rather cutting edge, but not too much so.
its fast, its beautiful and it works like a charm.

oh yes. come to Mandrake for your future.

rolling on the floor laughing

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I have been a Red Hat user since version 8. I currently use Fedora Core 2. This has been my favorite release so far. I am excited about FC 3 and hope that it can live up to the same standard.

The only complaint that I have is that the releases are so close together that it makes it a very cumbersome task to upgrade all of my desktops.

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Aren't we using GNU/Linux because we like choice? Why upgrade all of your desktops just because there's a "newer and better version?" Let's not get caught up in MS must upgrade thinking.

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I agree with you. The whole reason behind GNU/Linux is choice. A choice apart from Microsoft. Part of the constant need to upgrade, for me, is because I have been so used to Microsoft. Up until a few years ago, MS was the only OS that I used. I had used Mac a little, but it was OS 6 or something. It was pretty painful. I tried Linux a few years ago, and I absolutely love it.

I am glad that I made the choice to move to Linux. Now if only I could get Dreamweaver for Linux.

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The newest version of Crossover Office offers Dreamweaver support.

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I'm a Linux geek that likes jokes, and it started off okay, but then it lost its punch when it got more into the mundane. "Knoppix users are known to be pushy" etc. It would have been more funny and productive to have poked fun at side things that Linux users like about their distribution of choice.

Like "Debian users love their package manager so much they forget they could also compile from source [the non-Debian way!]" etc.
Or poke a bit of side-fun at some of the tricker aspects:
"Red-Hat, the distribution famous for dependency hell"

And Slackware being left out isn't a trivial thing, because at one time it was the only distribution, and that shows that the person writing the article doesn't know enough about all of the distributions before having written this.

Nice try. Great idea, but it just didn't have enough geeky details to be worth reading it.

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Like "Debian users love their package manager so much they forget they could also compile from source [the non-Debian way!]" etc. and etc.

But you've failed to get (what I believe is) the point. Firstly, this was written as if to a person who hasn't yet tried out Linux, and thus probably doesn't know what a package manager is, and secondly, it's about how *others* will see you if you use such-and-such distro, and thus it's meant to bring out the stereotypes others have about the users of the given distro.

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You've nailed this one right on... why people continue to think that Debian is superior is beyond me. In the meantime, I'll use Gentoo. It's a looser, more friendly dist than Debian ever will be.

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Personally I find Debian easier than Gentoo. And up and running faster, more stable too.

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You know if you can't configure your gentoo system then that doesn't mean that gentoo has something to do with your stability issues. I have always used the dev i.e. unstable branch I have yet to see a pkg that is not stable. Yeah sometimes the developers mess things up and ebuild fail to compile but the things get fixed in a couple of days. As far as debian being easier that gentoo goes, that may be so but still debian is a very slowly updated system oh yeah I have one question for you sudo instead of su? What kind of drugs are you on?

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but not, if you want to use JAVA or the euro-sign.
Or something else the debian-devs did not think about.

debian does so much things in a special way, that you have to learn linux again, if you leave it.

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www.ubuntulinux.org

No need to waste time compiling stuff.

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Very clever and HUMOROUS - which I believe many people have fail to comprehend. Look at the freakin' category, folks. Anyway, this is funny because these distributions are well known enough to have these traits in their users readily identifiable - just another example of how pervasive the varying distributions of Linux are in the world. Instead of bashing it, relish the fact that the author is able to succesfully use this kind of humor!

   

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insulting and not even slightly funny. wtf? at least try.
that was BORING!

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This article must have been posted by a troll. Debian's testing branch is certainly NOT OUT OF DATE!!

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That may be true but it's always just going to be testing that's current - if you know what I mean. By the time anything from testing hits stable it's very out of date.

Not Flaimbait, just funny =P

I am, of cource, a Slackware user as you might have guessed so be weevy weevy careful because I'm huntin' wabbits (newbies).

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never heard of these "distros" you speak of, there is only slackware

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you too?
for a moment there i thought maybe i was missing something.

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When I think of Linux distros, the mainstream ones I think of are: Slackware, Redhat/FC, Mandrake, Gentoo, Debian, and SuSE.

Go Slackware!

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Smile - it's humorous! In the spirit of the article, here's my take on a few distros not covered...

Yellow Dog Linux

Listen dog's breath, you just can't believe how much fun and freaky this PPC distro is until you watch some Macintosh bigot wrench his head out of its socket and explode seeing YDL running on a Mac screen. ROFL! Seriously, it's a fast distro with a nice interface and looks good on your desk, especially when you can tell the boss "No sir, no Mac computers around here sir!" Not to be confused with the Yellow Running Dog of the Western Capitalist Hedgemony & Military Industrial Entertainment Complex disto, better known as the Red Penguin distro made in and for China.

SELinux
Stand at attention there, soldier! If the idea of being so secure you can't cut and paste between user windows, can't back up your system without feeling like a doctor's finger is reviewing your prostate's health, and you need to know you have Trusted Path, B2 Level of Trust, and all the other things that 'The NSA Knows Is Good For You' ©, then baby is this distro for YOU! A virus or worm would not willingly go NEAR one of these puppies.

On the other hand, for 99.99% of us, enforcing the Bell Lapadula "star property", no read up no write down, and other spook-geek talk of the NSA's world will be as much fun and productive as inviting the local chapter of the Hells Angels over for tea.

Hey! Nobody said that REAL security was easy or fun! Sir, yes sir! Sir, we are secure, sir! Quick - tell me where to stand so I can be hit by the falling safe and be put out of my misery!

Regards,

-Ocelot Wreak

"I figure you're here 'cause you need some whacko who's willing to stick his finger in the fan. So who are we helping?" - Keith Szarabajka

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Now _that's_ funny!

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SELinux isn't a distro, just a security module...

Close enough you say?

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hey! what about slackware!?!? were just as big as the rest of them, and uhh, yeah. were cooler too!<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:P

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Yep Slackware is THE Linux Distro.
Mainly for the ones that like to know how everything interconnects, and works. And It does work<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)

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As is often the case these days, Slackware was implicitly included by deliberate exclusion.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;-)

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Yeah! Slackware is much cooler then the oders. Many of my friends are pushing me around because I use Slackware. They don't want to understand that the Slakcware is the best.
It is for real NERDS.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-)

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John Denver is singing about the western part of Virginia, not, as most people believe, West Virginia.

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you are DEFINATELY a debian user...

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That's funny!

ROFLMAO

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And you are DEFINITELY a Linspire user from the way you spell

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What up? Damn Small is doing really well since they added the MyDSL on-line upgrade feature in 7.0.

          With that, you can have the majority of the latest apps and still stick with a fast, lean barebones desktop. In my experience that's what most people making the switch find really intriguing. Most of them are turned off by all the bloat in XP and KDE3.0 is just more of the same. I mean I love KDE 3.0, but for an old PC it's not a good idea and something that makes old hardware good again is far, far better than just tossing it.

          DSL is hardly an unknown either, it's #10 and climbing at DistroWatch. I've used it on plenty of machines that couldn't handle the full KDE setup of Knoppix. The really sweet thing about DSL is you can almost always run the whole thing in RAM. They say you need 128Megs, but I've done it with 64Megs. That's sweet. I've saved old notebooks by converting them to DSL too.

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The funniest part is where you got serious and put the "OpenBSD 3.6 released" link at the end.

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Actually thats a link to another article. Keep trying, eventually you have to get one.

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( eom )

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Why not report on the REAL issues of the day?

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MEPISLovers, of course!

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Windows!

<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/duck and cover

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It's true. Windows users would have far better sex lives - they have all the extra time available between BSOD's and Fatal Faults and autoupgrade we need to restart.
Linux users are too busy using their machines. Hmmm, that's an argument for going back to windows or taking a vow of celibacy.

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Get a life guys, Joe is making light!

Arn't we taking this a little to personally & preciously-Smegol????

As Mike says @ http://www.theinquirer.net/, "Never let the facts get in the way of a good story!"

Keep it up Joe & bring some of these airheads back down to earth.

Greek Geek on Debian Sarge.
*humour comes pre-installed!*

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lol gentoo users lazy? what about windows users? yea i thought so... i love when ppl that talk out of their ass.

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I use gentoo because I'm lazy<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;-) It's so much easier to just type "emerge whatevertheheckIwant" than to figure out where to download a software package and all of its dependencies! I spend a lot less time maintaining my gentoo box than my XP box<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;-)

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Whoever wrote it was an idiot. Being totally inaccurate isn't funny, it is insulting. If I had recognised anything even vaguely true in the description of my favourite distro (or even other distros I've tried over the years), I might have laughed. Instead it just makes me think that I'm reading the words of some kind of a sad loser or troll.

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OOOOooooh sounds like someones having a problem with the concept of humour... It wouldn't take long to work out what distro they use! Humourless Ass Linux.. for those who take life so serious, even smiling needs a script and an update.. prefering to take three days bashing away at a terminal console to get pleasure... Play nice children or Uncle Bill is going to get the upper hand....

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Well, *I'm* a Linux user, and I found it funny, so I guess that's pretty inaccurate. Of course, you may have been being ironic/humorous. The reality is probably something more like "there are highly strung and humourless people in the world, and some of them use Linux". Yes, and some of them use Windows, too.

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what about windows users? yea i thought so.. gotta love ppl that talk out of their ass out of boredom.

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seriously. if this kind of "humor" is the best we can do, is it any wonder the mainstream view us with disdain?

hint: if you think "user friendly" is funny, don't write "humorous" posts on the net.

sheesh.

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Debian is for lazy people.

Slackware is for crazy folk.

Gentoo is for compulsive compilers.

Red Hat is for populists with bad hair.

Mandrake is for amateur magicians.

Suse is for herpetologists.

Nice going, Joe, but I bet you could've fleshed those out some more. You have real belly-laugh potential in some of your lines.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)

BTW, I've used all the distributions I listed above and had a blast with each. The least time I spent with each as my main "desktop" system was 3 months so I did get to know them. Some I used for years. I am currently settled on one, and very lazy with it.

To those complaining about the article: lighten up. Or as Suse puts it, have a lot of fun!

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Today in America, there are over 14 Gentoo users. These compulsive compilers need our help. Compilophillia effects not only the user, but his whole network. Servers are constantly bogged down in a self-defeating quest to 'save' CPU cycles by recompiling ther kernel. This sort of self destructive behavior leaves users without appropriate available resources. We may be afraid to confront a compilophilliac, but we must have courage. It starts with one box, and then, they discover distcc, and tie up multiple machines. Eventually, they can't even be reached by email because the whole network is clogged with distcc traffic, and all the servers are rebooting with their freshly compiled kernels. Friends don't let friends compile from source.

Also, if you see a user running Slackware, don't ignore it. Slackware is a gateway distro that leads to compilophillia. There is no such thing as "Just a little slackware."

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No Slackware? This article isn't even worth reading!

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agreed!

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Granted it was a dirty trick of Red Hat to abandon the home users, but Fedora really does have a lot to offer, and if you want my opinion, is somewhat better than even Red Hat 9. I currently use FC 2 and have been very impressed with it.

But there are several other distros that are unfortunately missing from this list, and most notably Slackware since it was (basically) the first distro for Linux, but it would probably take too much bandwidth to put up comments for all of them, but we should all remember that regardless of what Distro you are using, the point is you are not using MS, and that is what sets Linux apart.

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Slackware??

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Slackware is definitely not to be forgotten and a super server OS too!

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Not much of a community for non-Portuguese speakers, but it is a pretty solid distro overall. I started using it when I got tired of the run-of-the-mill distros. I've tried Debian, Redhat, SuSE, Mandrake, LFS, Gentoo, Slackware, Fedora, OneBase. All of them felt shaky and fidgety, like traversing a rope bridge over a ravine. Conectiva somehow felt different.

It's like Debian in a way that it evolves slower than other distros but is a bit more up to date than Debian and far more relaxed when dealing of license terms of included apps.

J. Baller

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How ironic. You complain that (among the others) LFS was "shaky and fidgety" but since you built LFS yourself - isn't that kinduw your own fault?

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how about covering the important question of what the editor you use says about you?<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-)

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Yeah, text editors, Web browsers, and Email clients are some other things that get people all excited and opinionated. Joe brought us out well. Now let's relax. I use what I like and like what I use... and if I don't, I change. To me, that's the REAL value in all of this stuff. Nice job, Joe!

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Hmmmm. Now that you mention it...<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;)

Joe Barr

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Next time on Smartline: "Religion...which is the One True Faith?"<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)

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There is also a group who has tried them all and some more. I suppose RH is the first for most.

Personally I am now a MD user much because I feel they have had "moral" also during hard times with
ISO -images and the like.

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I am currently using somewhere in the range of 15 to 19 different OS's simultaniously with not one repeated twice on any machine or group of machines.
Some machines of course have more then one like thew machine that tells the world it's XP but uses Co-Linux to actually have a usefull and hardy OS under the hood.
I am using OS's from CMP on my WORKING KayPro 4 (go look it up) Linux M68k and os7 on some old macs, Redhat 5.2 on the cluster, Slackware on an old 386, Xandros on a laptop for work, SUSE,<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...
My most promising is just a machine with the latest kernel and whatever packages I put on it. No particular Distro used at any time.

What does this say about me?

YSRD
\\//_ LLAP
||||

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Probably a scorpio, most probably unemployable. But way kewl. (in an uber-geek kind of way)

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I use Debian for servers
Fedora or Mandrake for fun.
and Knoppix when any think stuffs up windows XP included.

Each has there place Debian more console configure tools handy for server with a 12" monitor that just refuses to die.

Note I hope in the next few years I can drop a disto or two as Debian based distros get the desktop end sorted out. This is only hope.

Reason for not running SUSE lack of iso access to burn it.

What is a distro unfussy who just want one that works.

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kinda missing FreeBSD on the list

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yes, I think your choice of BSD as a Linux distribution says a whole lot about you....

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FreeBSD is not linux...

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Yeah, that you dont know shit.

Some fuckin people eh!

(although i'd pick a FreeBSD box over any linux distro)

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Obviously you _live_ for satire and thought this article was really funny. You are likely a former Novell employee or a daily Groklaw reader, or both.

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This is the problem with the linux community. Everybodies distro is better, or if you don't roll your own then you suck. Well I say, if your using linux and not windows, then thats great.
This article makes us (linux community) look like iraq. Its all one country but there are a dozen factions that can't get along.
I have used just about every distro on this list. Each has its purpose and to each his own.

Slackware and Suse user

Long live linux!

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What kind of poor article is this?

Not only the decription misses what had to be said for what's good at it, it simply is a mess.

Debian is also known to be solid having packages that are pretty old compared to that of Gentoo and such.

The writer also claims how HE feels and sees about the community... So you know everything about those communities and distribution you mentioned, well done, it makes me feel sick.

I don't know why this came on newsforge. I'm expecting a higher quality article than this piece which should end up on a personal blog of his own.

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Heh.

Probably all this is true, but there's an equal chance that it's probably not...

But what the heck. Does anybody really know at all what Linux really offers, or are we just all looking at the top of the rabbit hole?

Does anyone have the bragging right to take the Blue Pill?

Do anyone at all have a Free Mind?

Then again, you probably hadn't seen this.

<A HREF="http://isc.sans.org/diary.php?date=2004-11-1" title="sans.org">http://isc.sans.org/diary.php?date=2004-11-1</a sans.org>

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1) its really the most versatile & polished distro
2) it pisses off all you friggin "patriots"

[precision: je ne suis meme pas francais, mais contrairement a vous, je peux m'exprimer dans une langue etrangere<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-]]

Zorglub

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Gentoo 4 ever<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)

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Forget the lot of em.

FreeBSD all the way.

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<A HREF="http://www.archlinux.org/" title="archlinux.org">ArchLinux</a archlinux.org>

Great distro.

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Its bleeding edge as far as O/S go. It uses apt, yum and rpm for updates. 2.6.9 Kernel, KDE3.3 and Gnome 2.8.. It won't bite you like Debian.. it doesn't take six days to configure like Gentoo. You don't have to have Club membership like MDK and its months ahead of SuSe and Slackware... Don't you think it's time to update this page, and your O/S

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Wow what a bunch of whiners, half of the posts sound like a bunch of fourth graders.
Anyhoo, Debian, Sidux, DreamLinux, and Mandriva is what I like in that order, and I use all on my machines.
I also like Knoppix, PCLinuxOS, and Kubuntu. I abandoned Suse after 6 months of use.

On one machine I have Debian, DreamLinux, Mandriva, and Windoze.

My Laptop: Debian Etch, Sidux, Windoze.
Laptop #2: Debian Etch Stable as a file-sharing & musicplayer for the bar.
I really like messing around with all of the distros.
First Distro was Mandrake 8.1

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