Linux.com

How can linux.com afford this? Where would the money come from?

#

dude...linux is free. join the club!

NO:

Blue Screens Of Death
Illegal Operations
WinXP Registration

!!!

--upgrdman

#

Here is a quarter -> 25¢
Go buy a clue (or a math textbook).

#

Better yet, buy one of those little <A HREF="http://wiccabilly.com/images/troll.jpg">trolls</a wiccabilly.com>.

#

Uh... volume?

#

I see someone is shooting for a "Score 5: Funny".
Sorry fella, you want slashdot.org.

#

I can't believe some people took this
seriously.

LOL, AP. L O L.

#

Of course it is serious. Its 100 % correct. ITS ALL FREE. That is the joy of it. You FINALLY have a computing choice. And you dont have to spend a DIME. I cant belive that ANYONE (including corporate america) would not jump on the Linux bandwagon. Heck, the money you would save from all the license's could put a team of IT people through Linux certification, 1000 times over. Come on people, wake up and smell the freedom....

#

Look that is nice and all but with Companies still create Learning on windows based systems. All the cost savings and stability mean little. Johnny just wants to run his Reader Rabbit even if it crashes once in a while. Or snoopy CD. I know about wine but folks at schools from an IT perspective are not always technically savvy. If you work IT at a school and read this you are not the group I am talking about but you know who they are.

#

Great article, it's linked where no one that matters will see it though. (I'm talking CIO/CTO/CEO types, no offense my fellow geeks.)

#

Actually, the CIO/CTO types are a good portion of our audience.

Grant

#

Oh.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;-)

#

I am a CTO and very much interested and will be soon implementing Linux. We have dumped our NT servers for Linux and that went very well. Price is a factor but function is the main factor. It's powerful, flexible and it works well. The price is great too. This is a no brainer.

Our 350 workstations will, in the next 18 months all be converted to redhat and OpenOffice.
Our employees will do their work on this with no problem.

#

i'm james. I'm a student, and I just set up 256 bit twofish encryption on my<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/home partition of my harddrive using hvr's excellent international crypto patch. I have no money to my name, and lots of college debt.

I use linux cause it's free. (and i can encrypt my hard drive, and do other neat tricks with loopback devices<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;-)

anyway, funny article.

#

Only well-funded software companies can provide the rich, value-added user experience you describe. Remember, only profit drives innovation.

#

This is where all of the linux community sites in the world (mine included) fall down. We have all these great ideas, but can't seem to get those ideas under the noses of the people making the decisions.

As much as I agree with some of the criticisms people have of Redhat, at least when they have an idea, they can get it in front of people.

I write op/ed and news pieces too, but often I throw them out, because it's pretty useless to extol the virtues of Linux to Linux users, or to preach of the sins of Windows usage to people who inherently aren't huge fans of Windows.

Sad but true. There aren't many people out there on Windows community sites linking to stories like this.

#

Are you that naive? Profit doesn't drive innovation, competition drives innovation. Microsoft has never had, nor likely will ever have an ounce of innovation in them. Any innovation they claim was purchased. When there is no competition, there is no incentive for innovation, and prices sky rocket.

#

Right! I agree... M$ don't got no innovation.

-Al (Jean-Luc)

#

Free software developers profit by:

gaining know-how
receiving praise from their users
receiving bug-reports from their users
receiving new ideas from their users
receiving bug-fixes from other developers<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...

#

Don't forget, free software developers are also rewarded by:

using their own product
using good software
not having to use micro$oft products
not having to pay for micro$oft products
and by helping others (by at least offering an alternative)

#

"only profit drives innovation"

Not necessarily, throughout history we have seen great innovations for the better and for the worse. The need to kill others, faster, at a distance, and massively, has been one of the main reasons for innovations. Also, in the medieval days, England's desire to torture and execute was a major reason to invent “grand” new devices.

#

The empiric research and many real-life examples refute that retarded statement.

#

If you're making this offer to grade schools, we'll
have to change the 'free' clause. After all, we don't
want to encourage underage drinking. Plus, most kids
interested in 'free beer' would be thrilled if they
could buy it, and the rest probably don't care about
free beer.

#

Better watch out though, I expect that Microsoft will fly over to your house next and offer you a couple of million dollars to promote Windows instead.

#

pizza!!!!

#

Right! Pizza! (Or as we Greek say: Pita!)
Does anyone know a Linux software store, where we can get free gyros and pizza?!<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:lol:

-Al (Jean-Luc) the Greek guy

PS Hey Kefalos! (If you've finally checked out newsforge...)

#

About has many that have free beer...

#

Sure, pizza recipe is free -- go buy the ingredients and make your own.

#

It was joke man, a joke!
If you have to buy the ingredients, there for it is not free... Little hole in your logic, don't know if you caught it...<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)

-Jean-Luc

PS I make the best pizza in B.C. Canada

#

ah. you've got my laughing my ass off over here. very well done.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)

#

I guess you will pay for this with the money you are getting from Microsoft for all the Visual Studio ads that I see on this site.

#

<tt>Hush your mouth! I was hoping no one would figure out our secret funding source... (`,')

- Robin <tt></TT></TT>

#

I tried to buy visual studio so that newsforge would show up on the m$ radar has a good place to waste ad dollars. Couldn't find the Linux or BSD versions. So I sent a letter of complaint instead...

#

I tried too, When contacted M$, they hung up on me...<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:lol:<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:lol:

#

I tried to get the Linux versions too, couldn't find them... When I contacted M$ they didn't say anything for a few minutes, then they put me on hold... That was a week ago... I'm still on hold, they play that lovely dial tone music...<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:lol:<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:lol:<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:lol:<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:lol:<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:lol:

#

Haha!! I know its you Jean-Luc!

#

I think that's pretty damn cool, personally<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;)

"Newsforge! Paid for in part
by our biggest competitor!"

#

Ok,here it goes...

 

    For an educational institution, LINUX is the way to go:


  1. No new hardware to buy,even the old PCs can be put to use, NOT true with MS software as new and newer S/W comes out, it demands more and more from the hardware.


  2. No separate compiler suite to buy, Linux comes with GNU compilers and tools.


  3. Students must be educated how a multi-user environment works, now what a multi-user environment is, Linux or any *ixes provide that.


  4. Office and other productivity suites are great, but last time I checked, all pertinent information like course syllabi, documentation were published using PostScript or plain old HTML.
If OpenOffice is to take off, there must be more of the XML-ized documents published on the web. So when some tries to open them, the realize they need OpenOffice.


  5. All GOOD educational institutions do have Solarises or HP-UXs for their student accounts. So I don't think they would be interested in Linux a server solution for now. But what they do have a need for is the cheap workstations, which Linux can fill, that is if they haven't already accepted an MS offer.


    I could go on and on, but people who make such decisions are computer literate, and infact they don't care much about "good" and "bad" technology, so if Linux is cheap and is viable common sense will tell them to use it.


    MS has always played with the weakness of individuals, if you put money on the table, they will agree to anything. Examples can be found if you read the MS story, not the Microsoft version but the version some oldies can tell you.


    This is no joke folks, when it comes down to finding a job, if your skill base is not required at businesses then it will start to pinching. This is a fight, and it will take every linux user to win it.


 

#

Far more capable emulators for foreign OS software than Micro$haft is even capable of running.

#

See this thread from a Linux in education newsgroup: http://archives.seul.org/seul/edu/Oct-2002/msg000<nobr>3<wbr></nobr> 8.html

M$ is going after the market (if you can call it that when it's free as in beer) for keeping old computers running in schools. K-12 ltsp has been making some inroads and M$ is apparently noticing

snip:

>>Hey guys,

        Looks like MS is starting to pay attention to public concern. I
got a very nice email from a lady who works for MS asking if I am
still trying to load Linux on old machines at my school. It seems MS
is now looking into making available OS's and Works for older machines
in schools. She says she hopes it will be free, and wants to come
visit. Comments?

#

Snip:
Tell her to go $#@! herself. Who is she anyhow? Melinda Gates, Billy boy's wife? I hear she uses Linux.

#

Yes, that's about right. Microsoft treats schools like carp until they start mentioning Linux, then Microsoft treats them to some free software. Hell, I wouldn't want it! Even if it is free, Microsoft won't offer security fixes for old software, and it certainly won't use the current Office file formats.

I personally don't see why all of the schools and governments in the world just don't shout out "Hey, we're switching to Linux!". Man, Microsoft would be handing out cash so fast that Bill would have to sell his paintings to keep people using Microsoft software!

You want Microsoft

#

Billy Boy paints?
What images of hiself slaying the Penguin? I got several of those, but its the reverse...

-Al (Jean-Luc)
(Note to Rob and gang,
I got an acount just
to lazy to get the password)

#

Dear Microsoft,

I'm using windows at home, but now that I had to upgrade my system, I'm seriously thinking about Linux. Mostly because it is free, and it's supposed to be more stable and secure than your offering. Plus I've heard there is not upgrade cost, ever.

Anonymous Reader.

(Do you think they're gonna send me some cash?)

#

> No new hardware to buy,even the old PCs can
> be put to use, NOT true with MS software as new
> and newer S/W comes out, it demands more and
> more from the hardware.

Have you looked at more recent distros like Mandrake 9 or Red Hat 8? They seem to be following the same trend.

> If OpenOffice is to take off, there must be
> more of the XML-ized documents published on
> the web. So when some tries to open them, the
> realize they need OpenOffice.

Could you clarify what exactly you are stating here? I'm not even sure it is in English. Are you saying to view a XML document you need OpenOffice? Or to create XML-ized version of documents you need OpenOffice?

#

If OpenOffice is to take off, there must be more of the XML-ized documents published on the web. So when some tries to open them, the realize they need OpenOffice.

****

CORRECTION: OpenOffice, although it uses _a_ XML format, does not mean that it can read all XML formats. In fact, it cannot. Mozilla can edit XML documents - at least the ones using the XHTML tags. And so on and so forth. The rest of your points were good, this one was not.

#

I'd bet some people who are not familiar with the distinction between freeware and Free Software are going to be routed here, and there's nothing in the article to explain what GPL software is, so I thought I would offer up some links to useful references:

<A HREF="http://www.gnu.org/licenses/licenses.html#TOCGPL">The GPL, and other free software licenses</a gnu.org>

<A HREF="http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html">The philosophy behind Free Software and how it differs from freeware</a gnu.org>

#

GNU sucks, well at least Richard Stallsman does...
They hate KDE so much. I think Linus should complete the Linux OS and cut out GNU in GNU/Linux.

#

Ok, sure the GPL and GCC are good. But GNU really has nothing to do with Linux... AS MUCH AS THEY WANT US TO BELEIVE IT THEY DID NOT CREATE LINUX!!!

#

They didn't create the kernel, just most of the most important stuff...
Linus didn't create GNU/Linux... AS MUCH AS YOU WANT US TO BELEIVE IT HE DID NOT CREATE GNU/LINUX!!!

#

Ha ha *snort* snort* ha ha *snort*

Oh boy, oh boy, good one. Ha ha. You are killing me... please stop. Ha ha.

#

They don't hate KDE - I know this for a fact.

What the GNU project does dislike is proprietary licenses - and the Qt toolkit used to be under one.

Since then, they have put Qt under a disjunctive license which allows people to use it under the GNU GPL and that lifts any complaints.

Oh, and for Linus to have even written the Linux kernel, he required GNU software.

Your information here is both incorrect and out of date.

#

"Oh, and for Linus to have even written the Linux kernel, he required GNU software."
Yeah, everybody knows that... There is nothing wrong with GNU software or the people that make it, they just borrow the GPL and GCC. However a lot of people love Linux, just don't like the big guys at GNU... Personally I'm indifferent to whether or not Linux should be called GNU/Linux fight. But, a separation between Linux and GNU, might not be so bad after, Linus did set out to make an OS not a kernel for GNU. Perhaps that idea should become reality... (In the long run, but it will take time...) Anyhow, that is just my opinion.

The GPL works great with general software such as games and office suites. But I don't think the GPL works with everything, such as DEs (desktop environments...). For example If someone were to make a new wonderful DE for Linux, some idiot will port it to some other OS. Thus requiring a change of name (eg: Linux Explorer, became Xplorer) Sure we need multi-OS DEs but, we need one of our own too... (GNU Hurd has their own: Gnome...) Anybody care to comment on this? (I know someone is working on this, but I'm not currently at liberty to say who...)

#

Just so you know, I'm not saying Xplorer is a DE, I'm just using it as an example (I re-read it and it might seem to some as if I'm saying that...).

#

Linus did set out to make an OS not a kernel for GNU. Perhaps that idea should become reality...

Why re-invent the wheel? FYI, Linus has said that GPLing the kernel was one of the best decisions he's made. From context, I infer that your intention is that Linux should migrate away from Free software principles. This is a phenomenally Bad Idea.

I don't think the GPL works with everything, such as DEs

Why is the GPL bad for a DE? Both GNOME and KDE are GPL'd. You have not demonstrated your purported drawback to this strategy.

For example If someone were to make a new wonderful DE for Linux, some idiot will port it to some other OS.

Why is that bad? The new derived version of the DE would have to be GPL'd also, so who cares?

Thus requiring a change of name.

There is nothing in the GPL about needing to change the name of a program that you modify and re-release (although it would be common courtesy in many cases). Anyway, I fail to see the relevance.

What is this multi-OS DE you're talking about? Since when is Gnome the DE for GNU/Hurd? Last I checked it ran under GNU/Linux as well...

Sounds like you want to make a DE for Linux under a proprietary license. Such a project would be doomed to fail, because (1) you would not have access to the huge armies of volunteer programmers that your Free competitors do, and (2) no one would want to use the non-Free DE.

#

You are incorrect about people not wanting to use a non-free development environment. Kylix is a non-free development tool for Linux and has a fairly strong user base. Most people I know are willing to use any quality tool, regardless of the license it is released under.

#

"From context, I infer that your intention is that Linux should migrate away from Free software principles. This is a phenomenally Bad Idea."
You think I'm talkin' commercial software? NOOO!
If it sounds like that, I'm sorry. And yes moving away from free software principles is a horrible idea... All I think is that Linux should quit borrowing GLIB and the Bash shell etc. If people want to use them, that their problem. And companies like Xandros
( http://www.xandros.net ), Mandrake and Redhat should include the GNU stuff on a second CD labelled "GNU software". Understand now?

"Why is the GPL bad for a DE? Both GNOME and KDE are GPL'd. You have not demonstrated your purported drawback to this strategy."

Okay, I demonstrate it now: Both KDE and Gnome were once just for Linux. Now they have been ported to many OSes (Mostly UNIX clones), as result they are no longer referred to by many as Linux DEs, rather as Free UNIX desktops. Okay we need at least one like that. eg. So if a freeBSD user had to use a Linux machine say at work, they could make the transaction to Linux machine no problem (KDE and GNOME already fill this nitch... maybe freeBSD isn't the best example of a different OS, but whatever...).

But we need our own recognizable LinuxDE that is released under a GPL style licence (possibly called LDPL? [LinuxDestop Public Licence]) that prohibits porting. This licence would be and should, used only for this purpose.

"Why is that bad? The new derived version of the DE would have to be GPL'd also, so who cares?"

The creators would... (read on... I explain further on...)

"There is nothing in the GPL about needing to change the name of a program that you modify and re-release (although it would be common courtesy in many cases). Anyway, I fail to see the relevance."

It is relevant, if one sets out to create a DE called "LinuxDesktop", and it is ported to an other OS. What would we call it then? You see my point? And to whole idea is to make a DE that is only for Linux. I think we need a Linux only DE. Maybe I'm the only one who feels the need.

"Since when is Gnome the DE for GNU/Hurd? Last I checked it ran under GNU/Linux as well..."
Sure it does, but Gnome is the official GNU DE, right?

"Sounds like you want to make a DE for Linux under a proprietary license. Such a project would be doomed to fail, because (1) you would not have access to the huge armies of volunteer programmers that your Free competitors do, and (2) no one would want to use the non-Free DE."

I've already stated that it would not be under a proprietary license, I don't need to repeat myself. Hypothetically speaking, I would have to have a really really low IQ to even think about creating a non-free DE (There is no market for one anyhow, even on a commercial OS! A lot of people tried for Win3.x, it did work! And yes there is a few for the real UNIX, but KDE and GNOME are taking over). That’s all I got to say. If anybody is interested email me at al_hornet@linuxmail.org . Some source code for LinuxDesktop already exists... I'm currently doing a double major in Computer Science and business at a university in Canada. But I'm still not very good with C++... (No I don't want anybody to do my homework<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:) I'm not even taking a C++ class right now! So no jokes okay?)

Alwasp (Jean-Luc)

#

Freedom has this strange way of allowing people to do things.

Take away the freedom to port applications and you take away most base freedoms outright.

There's a reason why the GNU GPL doesn't say that all programs released under the GNU GPL are part of the GNU project: it would be against the concept of Free Software.

If people want to take all of the GNU tools and replace them, then they are free to do that. I, personally, will have no quarrel with them as long as they license their software as Free Software.

If people want to port Free Software to other platforms, more power to them. I won't deny somebody that right simply because I want to feel exclusive. Elitism is for fascists and fools.

#

Well you might use a Microsoft developer
product to build a program, but that doesn't
make Mozilla for Windows a Microsoft product.

And besides, you don't need the GNU\ to get
the idea across. Any idiot knows that
"Linux" = "GNU\OS + Linux usually with X."

Let's call it GNU\X\KDE\Linux, or
GNU\X\Gnome\Linux. Or GNU\GGI\Linux, or
what the hell ever. There are tons of pieces
that go into the OS, but the one piece you
can ALWAYS expect to be there in "Linux" is
the Linux kernel.

"GNU\OS" could come with Hurd or Linux.
"Linux" always means Linux with GNU, except
in very very rare cases where someone cares
enough to make their own C-Lib.

Besides, who wants to type out GNU\Linux?
There are 4 keys there that don't need to be
typed to get the idea across.

#

Actually, no - any idiot doesn't necessarily know about GNU...

Simply because you know about it, doesn't mean that everyone saying "Linux" really means "GNU/Linux"

But, besides the point, the discussion wasn't originally about naming. The discussion was about some person not liking GNU for reasons that were both inaccurate and without any significant basis in rationality.

#

There are tons of pieces that go into the OS, but the one piece you can ALWAYS expect to be there in "Linux" is the Linux kernel.

Actually, the two things you can be sure of are the Linux kernel and the GNU tools... the kernel is useless without the tools.

If it helps, think of it this way: Linux needs GNU (the kernel is useless without the GNU tools) but GNU doesn't need Linux (GNU tools in *BSD, even installed on top of commercial OSes, Solaris 9 comes with a CD of GNU tools). Linux is just handy for GNU because it gets more publicity than *BSD.

#

I was muttering "klatu barata nictu"!

#

Hey you've been watching 'The day the earth stood still!!' The director of that movie also directed several original Startrek episodes... Just thought you'd like to know...

Linux rules!
-Al (Jean-Luc)

_________________
I run Linux on
the Enterprise

#

I thought that line was from "Army of Darkness"

#

Nope, I rented 'The day the earth stood still!!' the other day. Perhaps it is quoted in "Army of Darkness" I haven't seen it and so I don't know.

-Jean-Luc

 

#

See also:
http://us.imdb.com/Mlinks?0106308

Movie links for "Army of darkness" from IMDB:
References

Wizard of Oz, The (1939)

Day the Earth Stood Still, The (1951)

Amazing Colossal Man, The (1957)

Spartacus (1960)

Zulu (1964)

Planet of the Apes (1968)

Star Wars: Episode VI - Return of the Jedi (1983)

"A-Team, The" (1983)

Nightmare On Elm Street, A (1984)

Stryker's War (1985)

Aliens (1986)

Yup.

#

Never seen "the day the earth stood still" but that phase is the one that Ash misquotes when taking the Necronomicron, unleashing the army of darkness.

#

Perhaps we could keep a (strictly voluntary of course) site to keep track of these nice free installs by distribution. For those distributions which *sell* software (like Red Hat), at the end of the tax year, they can deduct the retail gain X number installed. Only fair, since when MS refers to the value of the software they "give away," they do it in terms of their own retail purchase price.

(Which shows how screwed up our tax system is<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;))

timothy

#

<A HREF="http://counter.li.org/">The Linux Counter</a li.org>

#

I am a linux & very happy with it . I am running my system for 4 years with linux with out any crush.

But the thing is in my country ( I am from India ) internet abnd width is very low , the speed is 56 kbps at max since here still the dailup network is populer so downign loading Rh 8 will be a matter of
down load for a week & so the telephone line cost & internet cost.

Though I have better solution I generally perfer to buy CD roms generally the lower price & got my Rh 7.3 in that way , 8 of our firend bought it & copied it just costs Rs 250 per head.

So I think the given offer is mainly for US baased people.


                                                                    Anirban Biswas.

#

Per head?
Just use the same disk on all the systems.
"Rs 250" per everyone you know!

And the US isn't the only country with
badass internet connections<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)

#

Anirban Biswas

I'm sorry to hear that... I know, dialup is slow.
I don't think the given offer was intended for just for North Americans. But there is always problems like this... I hope you guys can get high speed Internet soon (I still haven't got it yet, so don't feel so bad, a lot of us are still in the same boat<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:) ).

Good Luck!
Jean-Luc

#

If you and your friends are interested in a particular distro, you can download portions of the ISO from separate dialup connections and merge them together and burn the ISOs onto CDs. They're all free for doing that. No piracy here! (I know<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.. who cares about piracy, u might ask. Well, it just feels good to be doing the right thing. Good karma there,<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-))

#

Sometimes I pirate, sometimes I don't.
Depends on what I'm getting.

I bought Chrono Trigger when I could easily
have the downloaded ROM. But I just like having
the real thing...

#

Once again we are also having a conflict with the word free as well. It is a shame that it costs you money to get a distribution but that is the same for everyone. I live in Canada (you know the big ass country to the _north_ of the United States) and I pay around $50 a month for high speed internet access. Sure that isn't much that is some. It usually takes a day to get all dics of the distribution because the sites are primarily limited to a mere 30 kb/s (which makes HS kind of useless). So let's say that there are 31 days in the average month so $1.60 a day. So to obtain a copy of a five disc distribution (like RH8) I spend $1.60 on my internet acces about $0.60 per disc for a total of $4.60. See I didn't get Linux for free either.

It is a problem with the English language:
Linux isn't free, its free.

French, Spanish, hell even German do a much better job of it:
Linux n'est pas gratis, son libre.

It is free to be modified, distributed, and used. That is the key definition of the word.

#

Just some statistics/facts for people in US about Internet Costs in India :

* In India when you buy a Dialup, it does not come with a toll free number (i.e. the phone charges are extra).
* There is a charge of Rs.1 for every 3 minutes of phone usage.
* ISP charges are like Rs. 1000/month

So taking the current convertion rate 1 US$ = 50 Rs. (Rs. is Indian Rupee)

So do the math to calculate the cost to download 5 ISO images using Dialup connection.

Just to give you some idea, a decent wage if you work in a big city here is Rs.15,000/-.

And last month I paid Rs. 5000/- as phone charges for using internet for around 3-4 hours a day (i might have used more hours on some days..just an estimate). That translates into $100.

So I'm paying $100 phone charges for 3-4hours a day dialup connection besides paying the ISP charges seperately.

#

Yeah you are right the high value of dollar a big problem for us . If you spend $ 1 you spends here rs 50 & also a decent salary of rs 15000 is $ 300 , & I think it is a very poor salary for any decent US based jobs .

So the cost is also a problem . We smiply can not afford to download 5 cd ISO for 4 or more days ( & still I do not have any jobs because I am still a student )

Anirban Biswas.
Kolkata

#

Firstly, thanks for the geography lesson. Now stop being patronising.

Secondly, your $4.60 is a lot less than a month's dialup charges.

Thirdly, Linux is both free and free.

Linux est gratis et libre.

#

Just some statistics/facts for people in US about Internet Costs in India :

* In India when you buy a Dialup, it does not come with a toll free number (i.e. the phone charges are extra).
* There is a charge of Rs.1 for every 3 minutes of phone usage.
* ISP charges are like Rs. 1000/month

So taking the current convertion rate 1 US$ = 50 Rs. (Rs. is Indian Rupee)

So do the math to calculate the cost to download 5 ISO images using Dialup connection.

Just to give you some idea, a decent wage if you work in a big city here is Rs.15,000/-.

And last month I paid Rs. 5000/- as phone charges for using internet for around 3-4 hours a day (i might have used more hours on some days..just an estimate). That translates into $100.

So I'm paying $100 phone charges for 3-4hours a day dialup connection besides paying the ISP charges seperately.

#

And if a school were to apportion that cost among 500 students the price would drop to about $.08 USD plus the cost of the blank CD's. Here in the US, the cost would be about double that<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... almost 16 cents! What other operating system can you (legally) get that handles desktops, servers, PDAs, Mainframes and even wristwatches for the cost of the media? And offers continuous tech support in the local language at no extra charge? When the operating system only costs 16 cents per seat, you can afford a whole lot more hardware.

Perhaps the word "free" is not technically correct in every possible circumstance<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... but we are talking pocket change, not even folding money. Most institutions can afford Linux from the petite cash account.

#

In India, downloading GNU/Linux is not cost-effective because of high phone and ISP charges.

So what can a smart entrepreneur do? Download a GNU/Linux distribution, and sell CD-ROMs. Keep then cheap and affordable...in a populous country like India, high volume of sales can mean a lot of money.

As software for GNU/Linux is updated frequently, you can sell subscriptions. Buy a subscription and get new CDs every three months...or every month.

Build a brand name, sell GPL/FDL-licensed manuls, offer distribution choices (Debian, Mandrake, "Laal Topi" (Hindi for crimson headgear), etc. You can even offer GNU/Linux support too.

#

RedHat *used* to have a non-pofit organization dedicated to providing software and services to educational institutions. They no longer do this. When I asked why, a RedHat representative told me that they were a for-profit company and so discontinued this non-profit service. Quick thinking, too. They wouldn't want to risk a tax break, good publicity and getting a new generation of kids, and maybe their parents, using their operating system.

#

I guess they were having financial troubles.
(They always are.)

With negative profits you can't expect them
to be paying money out all the time. They have
to "cut off the figner to save the hand." If
the company is going broke, and one branch
isn't pullign in any cash, that have to kill
it...

#

I'd be the last guy to have RedHat spend any money needlessly, but as this article pointed out, its laughably simple to compete with other OSes who are trying to give their software way. It wouldn't take a big leap of accounting creativity to create a non-profit organization that supplies free operating systems to schools and then take a tax cut on the expenditures for the advertising. Apple leveraged a similar idea and they ended up pocketing some nice change from their educational focus. The exact process that gets Microsoft criticised on this forum would be an excellent way for RedHat to generate more revenue.

Linux has a big marketing problem. Almost no one hears about them unless IBM tells them about it. This is a cheap, simple way for them to get more distros in front of more people. And, ultimately, its possible that schools will purchase services from RedHat to support their free software.

And web both know they're having financial troubles. They always are!<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;)

#

RedHat having financial troubles ???? are you insaine ??? RedHat single handedly accounted for approx 50% of Linux desktop sales, and 75% of ALL Linux total revenue !! A link to the article stating the statistics was even posted on linux.com about a month ago. Finiacial problems my ass, they're making more money then all the other distro's combined...

#

I guy A is losing his shirt and guy B is losing his pants, then guy C, who is only missing a shoe is a success, right?

#

Sweeeeeeeeeeeet man this is the best article i've seen this year funny but informative.

#

If you actually want to appeal to the schools and you actually have a clue, next time mention all the educational software we have such as our drop-in replacement for BlackBoard, gradebook and scheduling software. Blackboard is costing these guys up the wazoo and we have an (the only?) alternative. Why were you silent about LTSP? or SEUL? Do you not know about them? Frankly, I don't think you know what you are talking about and it ticks me off that you pretend to address the public on behalf of Linux as a whole. Okay<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... Linux is free, intellectually and, to a very large extent, financially. So what? If that were all Linux had to offer, it wouldn't be on Gates & Ballmers radar. Forget free<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... let that be a nice bonus. Linux has LOTS more to offer. Even what I have written below barely scratches the surface.

Dear School Administrator,

      Please excuse my colleague. He's not used to dealing with business people such as yourself for whom reliability and standardization are far more important than initial cost. He isn't accustomed to looking that far into the future. But I know you are.

So here is our value proposition:

We have cloned most of the software you already use. There is an absolutely minimal re-learning curve to adopt our products.

We have begun to add logical, intelligent and innovative changes as we establish ourselves as the new leaders in software development.

It is possible that we have not yet cloned everything you currently use . We have a mechanism in place for creating specialized applications at minimal cost.

We do, in fact, offer this software for you to use throughout its lifetime at no charge.On that point my colleague was 100% correct.You may upgrade at will, modify at will and even, with restrictions, publish.

We are an international organization with technical support staff in every country served by the internet. In most cases, free technical support is available (in your local language) 24 / 7 on a 1-12 hr delay basis. If you should decide that you need even more immediate technical assistance maintaining the product, we have formed companies for that purpose and can also direct you toward skilled individuals should you decide to build your own support structure in-house.

Our software will allow you to skip at least one and possibly several hardware upgrade cycles. In most cases, the same programs are available for all common platforms such as Mac, Intel, DEC, Sun and so on. It's a long list. This allows you additional freedom in assigning your people.

We can help you centralize control and accounting so that you will retain a very high degree of control over which commercially licensed products are installed on your computers. No more nasty and harsh surprises at audit time.Nor more surprise expenses or expensive litigation on this point. You can show the Business Software Alliance the door, politely or not.The Open Source Movement does not audit.

It's a poor administrator who spends his budget on litigation,constant retraining and "upgrades" that add no needed functions.

We think you are better than that. We think you can recognize a true value proposition when you see one. We think you can hold a finger to the wind and tell when the tide is changing.And it is, most certainly, changing.

We'd like to call on you soon, before you make another purchase decision regarding either software or hardware. You have questions, we have answers. Good ones. You can find us online by using the search term "Linux User Group" in your favorite search engine or by following this link:
<A HREF="http://www.google.com/search?q=Linux+User+Group&sourceid=mozilla-search&start=0&start=0">Go Linux!</a google.com>

#

><nobr> <wbr></nobr>...all the educational software we have such as our drop-in replacement for BlackBoard, gradebook and scheduling software.

Links, or at least names, please? I'm interested, as I currently teach, but have no idea where to find any of this stuff as there are no names or links posted for any of them...

#

Check out <A HREF="http://freshmeat.net/browse/71/?topic_id=71">this site</a freshmeat.net> maybe you find something of your interest.

#

Already been there...

#

Ok then let's try this:

<A HREF="http://www.blackboard.com/">Blackboard</a blackboard.com>

<A HREF="http://www.lightandmatter.com/ogr/ogr.html">OpenGrade</a lightandmatter.com>

<A HREF="http://carol.wins.uva.nl/~zegerh/grades/">Grades XML</a wins.uva.nl>

and you can find some more <A HREF="http://sourceforge.net/softwaremap/trove_list.php?form_cat=71">here</a sourceforge.net>

#

<A HREF="http://freshmeat.net/projects/manhattan/?topic_id=22%2C27%2C28%2C251%2C71">The Manhattan Virtual Classroom</a freshmeat.net>

I'm not sure how fully-featured it is, I looked at it briefly a while back when I was working at an FE college. There may be more, I just happened to remember the name of this one.

#

That, and many other packages, can be found at http://richtech.ca/seul/ under the link "courseware".

#

We've written about a number of "Linux in schools" projects, and we'll happily write about yours. If you contact me by email, that article will get written.

There is no way every Linux benefit can be covered in one story, especially a light-hearted one like this.

- Robin

#

I'm extremely curious about this 'Blackboard alternative' you mention.. I've looked up inof on the acronyms you mention, but I haven't been able t find a definite software that is what you claim. Would you mind posting up a link, or at least a name, so we know what you're tlaking about? I work closely with several school districts, and have been looking for a good way of getting them to go Open Source, especially given the influence MS has on them with their software 'giveaways'.. a good Free/Open alternative to Blackboard would go a very long way towards helping me change that.

#

http://richtech.ca/seul/ look under the link titled "courseware". There are a couple of alternative offerings.

#

Thanks muchly, am chekcing it out as we speak. Wish me luck digging them out of the Microsoft-made hole they got themselves into.

#

I don't believe in luck. Keep digging<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... and know that Steve and Bill are digging a few holes of their own.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-)

#

http://www.dotlrn.org

#

Funny things happen every day. This one is classical. I read the article over and over, trying in vain to make sense of it. IS LINUX.COM REALLY OFFERING ANYTHING????????? OR WILL LINUX.COM DO ANYTHING BESIDES WRITING THIS ARTICLE??????? Can't anyone get any numbers of linux and OpenOffice for free? What has this to do with Microsoft or its donation to schools? This "offer" will surely thrill strangers to the Linux world. But isn't that a FRAUD??? Pleeeeeeeeeease, show me that I'm wrong.

#

Maybe you should come back when you find a sense of humor?

Grant

#

No, thanks! Maybe that "sense of humor" is what keeps most people away from Linux. Why do Linux folks like you always have to bash and tease Microsoft to grab some attention? Why can't Linux just look great by itself instead of by throwing craps on the faces of others.

 
Before Mac OS X came out, the Linux community had made no noise about Apple. But as soon as some normal and honest people expressed their acceptance of Mac OS X, Apple has become the second subject of such Linux "sense of humor".

 
I use and love Linux. But I also feel sorry for it, because most people are not taking it seriously, not even "professionals" like you.

 
If you really want to promote Linux, do it honestly, seriously and professionally. I don't think the people you really wanna talk to appreciate your sense of humor.

#

Why can't Linux just look great by itself instead of by throwing craps on the faces of others.

***

Because the others lie about what they are doing, the comparisons, and the benefits. They try to make it sound like they are doing something astounding - they're _giving_ it away. However, the free software community already did that - and theirs didn't have any strings attached.

If we didn't poke fun, people wouldn't see what is going on.

#

I appreciate their sense of humor...

Sorry, I choose not to walk around with a stick up my ass and a self righteous smirk on my face...

If you want to walk around that way, then fine. Appearently, you're quite bored and that makes you feel good. Hey, great...

But, do me a favor. If you're going to do that, please do it in the waiting room of a psychiatrist's office. They have medication for conditions like yours.

#

Are you serious? Don't you get it?

Are you Steve Ballmer?

#

First, to disappoint you, I'm neither Steve or Bill. I'm an enthusiastic Linux user.

 
If the article is only to humor the Linux community, I don't feel entertained because it's meaningless to a Linux user. If the article has any intent to lure the Windows world, then it is an unwise deception.

 
So yes, I am serious. And just check all the other posts, I'm not the only one who, as you said, don't get it.

#

Ok, this guy's taking things waaay too seriously, but I'll attempt to answer him seriously.

There is absolutely no fraud at all. Everything Roblimo says in the article is true. Yes, everyone from Linux.com to your momma can direct users to free downloads of Linux, so how can this be fraud?

Look at the larger picture. The point of the article is, Microsoft's discounted software offers can't really compete with a product that's been offered for free for years. Do I need to spell it out further?

A sense of humor is a terrible thing to waste.

Grant

#

Anonymous Reader, this article is tongue-in-cheek, but it is neither a joke nor a fraud.

Yes, Linux.com is offering something. It is offering information that the school community may not have had. All of its claims are true, so it's not a hoax.

Yes, anyone can get any numbers of Linux and Open Source for free. But do the schools know that, if no-one has been promoting these products to them?

What this has to do with Microsoft's claim to schools is that Linux offers the exact same thing only hook-free, and the schools need to know that.

In fact, the only problem I see with this article is that it is being published in a Linux magazine, where it is news to no-one instead of published in a magazine where it would have a chance of being seen by large numbers of educational staff.

#

Linux.com owners today announced that the free Linux giveaway promoted by Robin "Roblimo" Miller on their Internet web site was not approved by them in advance. Because of this, Mr. Miller will be solely responsible for the costs associated with this program.

#

Which are precisely 0 dollars.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)

#

You must remember to multiply that figure by ALL the people who may be potentially damaged by this heartless fraud. And once Mr. Miller multiplies that figure against all of the millions of people who may be potentially defrauded by his deviousness, well, all I can say is I pity him. While I have reason to believe that the salary he commands through his world-renowned pundit status will be able to absorb even this level of a class action lawsuit, hopefully he'll think twice before perpetuating such a fraud on the innocents. For shame, Mr. Miller.

#

Multiply that zero by, let's say, 10,000 people. Wow, that's a really big zero! But there are still no ones in front of it, it's just a zero, sitting there, lonely and cold, all by itself, unloved and unwanted. Poor little zero.

#

lately, linux pr is hitting it's stride.
First the "Free as in Enterprise " slogan,
and now this.

By the way, some corp would proabley pay a few hundred thousand just to come up with a slogan like that.
Don't laugh, Coca Cola spent several _million_
dollars to come up with the name Dasani for
their entry into the bottled water market.
corps love to spend money.

#

linux is bad for kids to use. you're like drug dealers<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... targeting the young, trying to get them to start at an early age.

#

and???? I fail to see your point.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:0)

#

I got on it when I was 12...

I saw it in a Dilbert comic and again
in "Europe" magazine and that sparked my
interest.

Dilmom uses Linux!

#

"Microsoft Windows is bad for kids to use. you're like drug dealers<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... targeting the young, trying to get them to start at an early age."

I couldn't agree more...

#

You're absolutely right! They taught my kids TURTLE when they were young. I didn't see then what harm learning to program could do but I see it all so clearly now. One became a Marine and spent four years of his life training to kill people. To kill them, you understand? To kill, kill, kill! Even worse, the other became an SFP (Southern Florida Penguinista), a programmer and tech support guy!

You're right! Linux is evil! Linux is commie controlled! Linux is a virus that must be stomped out!

Oh, wait a minute<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... what was I thinking? That was a Microsoft OS they were using<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... turning my kids into microdroids! Microsoft is evil! Long live the Penguin, down with the Monkey Boy! Long live the Penguin, down with the Monkey Boy! Long live the Penguin, down with the Monkey Boy!

-----------

Whew<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... you almost had me that time.

Ever see a skinny kid toss an 800 pound gorilla outta the ring? No? Just keep your eyes peeled pal<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... it's about to happen in front of your eyes.

#

Please note the change I made in my quote.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)

#

That's right<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... and your children (should you ever have any) are next. That's right<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... the little worms are not only going to think they are smarter than you, they are going to be able to prove it in public!

Look at it this way<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... if Bill had written good software to begin with, Linux would never have gotten started. So you can thank the creep in Redmond when your kids whiz by you on the infobahn, pal. Fahrfenugen my click, click tail<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... this Penguinista is going fraggin!

#

Sorry folks, but why does it seem people think the article was meant to be 100% serious? All it's doing is showing that the linux community has been offering the same thing that MS is doing now, but for longer. Money, monopoly and other madness aside, just have a giggle. The only really serious response I'm respecting is Mandrake Magician's. Schools have specialized software too, not just word processors. It's essential that all the needs are met. Considering the audience, one would hope that user training wouldn't be such a big deal, though<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;)

#

Oh, I see. So Linux.com is not, as I had thought, an authoritative or professional front line of Linux. If I'm looking for serious information, I should go somewhere else. Is there any? Maybe I should go back to mainstream media like CNET or ZDNet. But didn't some Linux people accuse them of being biased or something? It's so hard to be a SERIOUS Linux fan.

#

Does being professional mean you can't have a little fun once in awhile?

Grant

#

You used to read ZDNet?

I'm sorry, but how can you possibly read Jesse Berst or that new guy they have in his place with any degree of professional nature or seriousness in you?

Actually, this article is entirely serious. But, please do the math. 0*100 is exactly how much?

Come on, you're a professional, you can do the math on this.

#

and actually a good idea.
Especially with MS and Sun announcing that they
are donating millions of dollars worth of software.
the linux counter offer shows nicely just how much offers of software donation are worth.

#

I taught adult education full time for two years. In that time we had one "in service" training day. School was closed, we reported to a dingy motel conference room, listened to a lecturer talk about some child development model (good to know this in case the age limit for adult ed. ever dropped below age 7) for about an hour. But all was not lost; even though the cello-wrapped Danishes were stale and the coffee tasted moldy, at least we got paid for the full day.

And THAT (in my experience, which I hope was atypical) is how the public schools use a state-required "training day". Everything else is handled with an ambiguously worded memo, through the grapevine or a few sharp words behind closed doors. Reprimands are in plain English but their rationale may be in any language of the authors choosing, usually "gibberish" in a mixed sanskrit / hebraic alphabet.

Schools are for-profit public corporations with a geographically constrained monopoly. In short, they are a business 'in it' for the money. Teachers are employees. Do you see where I am going here? They don't train employees in the use of computers unless there is compelling reason to spend the money to do so. Forget Pollyanna, think bottom line.

Thank you for the compliment. It is refreshing to be taken seriously.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-)

Now, start getting off the couch and out to the school board meetings.

#

Hmmm. what hypocricy.. an M$ VIsual BAsic<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.NET<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.TAKEOVER ad and a M$ "Behind your business" ad... way to go Open Source Destruction Network (OSDN) !!!

#

When's the last time you bought something from the web-site store or made a ca$h donation to help offset the costs of storage, bandwidth or staffing? Heck, have you dontated money to any of the Open Source companies that allow free downloads of their hard work or even purchased a copy of your favorite linux distro? Maybe if more people did that, instead of griping about it, OS companies/projects would have enough money left over to advertise their wares.

#

I've got to admit that I don't even notice banner ads most of the time, but this has been mentioned a few times... I think it's pretty cool for a Linux site to be funded by Microsoft to poke a little light-hearted fun at MS - such as this article - or the more serious articles too, all paid for by Microsoft and others<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)

#

See the ad space to the right of this response?

It's for sale, rent or lease, long term or short. Color, black and white, sepia, with sound / without sound, with motion / without motion in your choice of languages and frequency of appearance. It's all for sale, poverty boy and you can own a piece of history if you're man enough to step up to the counter and plunk your money down. Or you can just shut up and keep on leeching.

The next time I see you complain about how this newsletter is funded, I want to look over to the right hand column and see your ad. If it aint there, I'm gonna rip on you like you aint never seen. It'll be _years_ before you bend over in public without looking behind you the whole time and you will treat old men wearing bifocals with a lot more respect in the future.

Don't be raggin' on what the man has to do to earn his living until you are able to lend a hand. You aint the government and there aint NO "unfunded mandates" in this neck of the woods. Money talks<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... your stuff walks.

When the ads from Linux service providers and retailers are sufficient to pay the rent,I feel safe in promising you that the Microsoft ads will quietly disappear from here. For now, though, it pays to have a sense of the irony of the situation.

Bill Gates does not buy media presence personally. That is bought through a department and that department buys it wholesale from ad companies who specialize in specific niche markets that negotiate its purchase from companies like OSDN. Bill doesn't know his money is supporting a commie virus operating system or it wouldn't be here. The advertising company is likely clueless, too<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... or they wouldn't risk losing the MSFT account. OSDN has a good idea what level of interest ads for MSFT are going to gather here<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... little to none<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... but hey, if the advertising wholesaler wants to pay the price<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... it's a done deal.

Did you rip into OSDN after considering all that? Or did you (again) put the thinking off until later?

#

<A HREF="http://www.penny-arcade.com/view.php3?date=2002-07-22&res=l">please stop making yourself look like an idiot.</a penny-arcade.com>

#

of course it can offer it.... because all linux is.. is a lame knock off of solaris + windows. There's not even the slightest bit of innovation in the linux arena. It all ripped from solaris and windows. HAHAHA

#

You're a maniac! I bet u have never even tried Linux.

#

Okay<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... I guess we all know who stole the 'shrooms.

#

There was a large promotional bullet left out of the article. We who use Linux sometimes forget what it is like to face a computer for the first time. Linux gives the newbie the freedom to explore and tinker without the fear of destroying the system with an inadvertent click.

I just spent a day rescuing a "newbie" from MS Windows. Someone had loaned her an old computer with MS Windows. Neither she nor her husband knew beans about a computer, except how to hit the power button. They worked out the mouse (remember watching newbies twist and steer the mouse?). Somewhere in Windows, they clicked the wrong thing and the next time they turned it on, it asked for a boot disk. No such creature was included with the loaned computer, so they hired a lady "down the road" to "repair" the system. (My suspicion is that they may have dragged the System "folder" and dropped it inside some other, or some of those "hidden", "system" files were left available). Regardless of how it happened, the experience left them afraid to explore anything beyond solitaire.

My rescue kit was an old P-133 with 32 Mb of RAM, a built-in 1Mb Cirrus Logic video card and Debian 3.0 and a 15" monitor. The desktop (fvwm2) was very barebones: just a 4-desktop pager in the corner and the cursor. Click anywhere and the Debian-maintained menus pop up. Mozilla, Navigator, AbiWord, Nano, some games (including ace-of-penguins solitaire), mc and the varied multitude of toys and utilities that accompany a Linux distribution are on those menus. My daughter and I created a custom, local home page to provide links to all the documentation, a few personalized help files, and, with the help of a little php script, a page with a button to either mount or unmount the cdrom via the browser.

The thing that garnered the most gratitude and relieved look from the couple was the fact that they could explore without fear. They were quite comfortable with being warned that deleting their own files meant those files were gone for good. It was the freedom from worry about damaging the system itself, as regular users, that they appreciated.

If someone gave you a new toy, but told you if you twist the wrong knob, or push the buttons in the wrong sequence, it would completely fall apart, you might be reluctant to play with that toy. Newbies should be allowed to play with the pretty knobs and buttons without fear of breaking their new toy.

(Sorry for posting anonymously. See <A HREF="http://edge-op.org/grouch/">http://edge-op.org/grouch/</a edge-op.org> ).

#

Here! Here! Well said, my good man!

As an adult ed instructor teaching HS dropouts how to use a computer for the first time, the first thing I would do is de-mystify the machine by spending the morning lecturing about the mechanical aspects and then dis-assembling one in front of about half the class just before scheduled break. Then I and the rest of the class would go on break. The others could take their break as soon as they got back to a C:\

By the time they got that thing back together, they were no longer worried it would disappear in a puff of smoke. In fact, by the time they got it back together, they were probably wishing it would!

#

So, I am offering my rotund body, along with some knowledge of the fearful BSOD and some other diseases of the closed source kind, and an alternative to let you get rich quick!
Three things sell stuff, FEAR, GREED, and, SEX!

Oh well, you probably wouldn't want a 60 year old guy hanging round your place... But, the BSOD fear is worth something, right? And, a way to block all that spam, while getting out a few precious words in a very secure environment that is crashproof, could be priceless to aware 'C' level execs... Gee, I hope they show their wisdom soon!
I am starting to lose faith in the capitalist
philosophy!

#