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Feature: Linux
My workstation OS: Mandrakelinux
By Gary Maxwell
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February 11, 2005 (8:00:00 AM)
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For almost three years I have used Mandrakelinux and compared it with several other desktop distros. For ease of use, excellent support, and up-to-date packaging, Mandrake is the best desktop going.
For ease of use, Mandrake can't beat. The Mandrake Control Center is cleanly laid out and is probably the most intuitive on the market. Setting up one's box is a snap. Mandrake's hardware recognition is simply superb. And I have never had Mandrake choke on my machines. It has always recognized and set up my hardware with little input needed from me. Mandrakelinux just keeps getting better with every release.
From Mandrake Move and the Discovery Edition to Powerpack Plus and the Corporate Server, Mandrake has always offered top-notch support for its products. The company answers inquiries in a timely fashion. And there's also a whole army of folks just waiting to be of assistance in the various forums and newsgroups.
No distribution is without its bugs. In the interest of improving quality, Mandrake has added a step to its development model: the Community Edition, an early release designed to allow users to work with cutting-edge applications at the earliest possible time. This additional step has greatly improved the Mandrake distribution and has positioned it as one of the most stable distros around.
Another great thing about Mandrake Linux is the interaction between the user community and the developers facilitated through Mandrake Cooker. Through Mandrake Cooker, users can report bugs and offer suggestions as to how to improve the packages. In fact, a user can anonymously upload a fix for the Mandrake developers to consider. All in all, it's a great way to interact with users, get specific bug reports, and improve the Mandrake distribution as a whole.
Mandrake has always supported open source and the open source philosophy. For instance, it still provides a free download edition to the community. In fact, I recently switched to the download edition to use as my everyday desktop, because I use only about five apps on a consistent basis, and another two or three for multimedia. Those apps include the Firefox Web browser, Evolution email and contact manager program, GnuCash financial application, OpenOffice.org office suite, and XMMS MP3 and streaming media player. Beyond these apps, I may use only two or three others as needed, such as K3B for CD burning and KCalc for simple calculator functions. However, it's nice to know that there are plenty of other apps available in the download edition. You can just imagine how many more apps you get with the boxed sets, along with Mandrake's excellent support offerings.
Mandrake has always had a knack for stabilizing a system and providing the most recent packages. In other distros, stability sometimes comes at the hands of antiquity.
Mandrake uses the RPM package manager, which is a convenient way to package apps and deliver them to the Linux platform. Yes, there is sometimes "dependency hell," but that is largely a thing of the past thanks to Mandrake's urpmi tool, Mandrake's equivalent to Debian's apt-get package system. Urpmi can find packages and resolves dependencies, making it an easy way to acquire Linux apps.
The Mandrake Control Center is the best and easiest way to configure your Mandrake box. With the Mandrake Control Center you can set up a LAN, specify security settings, activate a firewall (provided with every Mandrake distribution), set up and automate backups, update the system, and more. The Mandrake Control Center allows new users to set up their systems easily through a simple interface.
Mandrake earns its keep from its boxed sales and support offerings. In the fall of 2001, Mandrake introduced the Mandrakeclub as an additional stream of revenue for the company. Mandrakeclub members gets some special benefits, with the scope of the benefits increasing at each succeedingly more expensive level: Standard, Silver, Gold, and Platinum. As a user of Mandrake's Download Edition, the only way I have to support the company is to join at the Standard level of $66 per year. I would like to see Mandrake include a "Donation" option in its Mandrakestore. That way, users of the Download Edition could contribute at a level of their choosing, while others might be encouraged to simply drop a few dimes in the hat.
But for a distribution that offers so much to so many, this is a rather minor concern. Mandrake really has a lot going for it. While other distributions may exceed Mandrake in one area, the total package that Mandrake offers is far superior to that of other distributions.
I have heard others say that Mandrake is fine for newbies (and, indeed, it is) but that they have moved on to some other distribution that requires a lot more knowledge to configure. I'm all for learning more about Linux, and I can understand how some prefer the highly configurable, more esoteric distributions. But under the hood, Linux is Linux, and you can always delve into the inner workings of Linux on any distro. Why not use a distro that sets up everything for you and gives you a stable, secure, and customizable desktop to learn on?
What's your desktop OS of choice? Write an article of less than 1,000 words telling us what you use and why. If we publish it, we'll pay you $200. So far, we've heard from fans of FreeBSD, Mepis Linux, Debian, Xandros, Slackware, Windows XP, Lycoris, SUSE Professional, NetBSD, Ubuntu, FreeDOS, and Libranet. Coming soon: Linspire, Knoppix, Gentoo, and more.
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From my experience, your post is quite incorrect. I have given Mandrake many chances and have found:
1) Debian and Red Hat/Fedora (particularly FC3) are far superior in terms of stability. However, both of these distros do involve more post-install configuration after install as compared with Mandrake. Also, to my knowledge, neither Debian or RH/Fedora have ever "fried" anyone's CD-ROM drive and tried to pin the blame on the hardware manufacturer instead of their own inept quality control.
2) Mandrake typically pushes toward "bleeding edge," both in the software they include and the software they create for their distribution. While recent releases are nowhere near as buggy as pre-9.x, I still find annoying little bugs all over the place.
3) Mandrake looks nice, but if you want to combine functionality with appearance, SUSE is a better option.
In addition, I challenge the assertion that "Mandarke [sic] (and, of course, Debian!) are wholly committed to free software and not only to corporate clients..." Mandrake is a for-profit business and Mandrake Linux is their product. Frankly, now that YaST is free, Mandrake is no less commercial and no more free than either SUSE or Red Hat. Also: Neither Debian or Fedora Core are commercial distributions and neither of them dilutes Open Source or Free Software values in favor of convenience. Yet, each makes installation of proprietary features (e.g., MP3 codecs) convenient enough, should the end user wish to configure them.
Finally, "...mainly a US 'patriot' distro" is a narrow-minded, petty, inflamatory, and ultimately insubstantial argument, akin to saying "Mandrake is for Francophile, globalist apologist sycophants." I could also say the "patriot" remark is the product of an emotional, logically-challenged, self-congratulatory Trekkie, although it would be clearly wrong for me to do so.
Live long and prosper, indeed.
1) Debian and Red Hat/Fedora (particularly FC3) are far superior in terms of stability. However, both of these distros do involve more post-install configuration after install as compared with Mandrake. Also, to my knowledge, neither Debian or RH/Fedora have ever "fried" anyone's CD-ROM drive and tried to pin the blame on the hardware manufacturer instead of their own inept quality control.
2) Mandrake typically pushes toward "bleeding edge," both in the software they include and the software they create for their distribution. While recent releases are nowhere near as buggy as pre-9.x, I still find annoying little bugs all over the place.
3) Mandrake looks nice, but if you want to combine functionality with appearance, SUSE is a better option.
In addition, I challenge the assertion that "Mandarke [sic] (and, of course, Debian!) are wholly committed to free software and not only to corporate clients..." Mandrake is a for-profit business and Mandrake Linux is their product. Frankly, now that YaST is free, Mandrake is no less commercial and no more free than either SUSE or Red Hat. Also: Neither Debian or Fedora Core are commercial distributions and neither of them dilutes Open Source or Free Software values in favor of convenience. Yet, each makes installation of proprietary features (e.g., MP3 codecs) convenient enough, should the end user wish to configure them.
Finally, "...mainly a US 'patriot' distro" is a narrow-minded, petty, inflamatory, and ultimately insubstantial argument, akin to saying "Mandrake is for Francophile, globalist apologist sycophants." I could also say the "patriot" remark is the product of an emotional, logically-challenged, self-congratulatory Trekkie, although it would be clearly wrong for me to do so.
Live long and prosper, indeed.
1) Bugs: since neither you nor I can really prove our points, we are, after all, only conveying our personal experiences, you position is as valid as mine. Where I would wholly agree with you is that (with the exception of the rather good 7.2) pre-9.x Mdks were buggy. Actually, what I noticed that it is wise to wait for a X.2 version (7.2, 8.2, 9.2 or now 10.2) before installing, the intermediate ones being, indeed, buggy. This is, however, a user's choice (to go bleeding edge or not). I only use x.2s.
2) Business model (yep, I did use the word "business" here because outside the USA business!=corporate): Mdk is, indeed, no less commercial than others, it is, however, less exclusively corporate oriented than say RH. Also, Mdk's execs have made it clear that they do commit themselves to freely releasing their apps and they have/are helping the development of free software. BTW, I was commending Mdk in my post, I was not saying about anyone else's committment, or lack thereof, to free software.
3) Flag-burning: ( is a narrow-minded, petty, inflamatory, and ultimately insubstantial argument, akin to saying "Mandrake is for Francophile, globalist apologist sycophants." I could also say the "patriot" remark is the product of an emotional, logically-challenged, self-congratulatory Trekkie). Your hysterics only make my point. Thanks!
2) Business model (yep, I did use the word "business" here because outside the USA business!=corporate): Mdk is, indeed, no less commercial than others, it is, however, less exclusively corporate oriented than say RH. Also, Mdk's execs have made it clear that they do commit themselves to freely releasing their apps and they have/are helping the development of free software. BTW, I was commending Mdk in my post, I was not saying about anyone else's committment, or lack thereof, to free software.
3) Flag-burning: ( is a narrow-minded, petty, inflamatory, and ultimately insubstantial argument, akin to saying "Mandrake is for Francophile, globalist apologist sycophants." I could also say the "patriot" remark is the product of an emotional, logically-challenged, self-congratulatory Trekkie). Your hysterics only make my point. Thanks!
<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-r
1) Agreed. Your experience may be completely different from mine. Mine has been that Mandrake (even 10.x releases) have inferior QA to other distributions.
2) Again I challenge your assertion that Mandrake are "less exclusively corporate oriented than say RH." Where's your proof? In fact, here's an excerpt from Mandrake Linux Community Newsletter (Issue # 100 February 10, 2005):
"New U.S. partner program
In January, Mandrakesoft announced the new Mandrakelinux Solution Provider Program, teaming up with IT services companies around the U.S. to provide Linux products and services to small- and
medium-sized businesses. Mandrakesoft will provide sales, marketing and technical support..."
and this:
"HP to sell pre-installed Mandrakelinux systems in Europe
Just ahead of the Solutions Linux conference in Paris, HP announced that it plans to provide and support pre-installed Mandrakelinux solutions across its entire range in France from February onwards..."
While there is nothing wrong in Mandrake's corporate approach, to somehow presume or portray it as more "noble" than any other company's is deceptive and inaccurate.
"Also, Mdk's execs have made it clear that they do commit themselves to freely releasing their apps and they have/are helping the development of free software. BTW, I was commending Mdk in my post, I was not saying about anyone else's committment, or lack thereof, to free software."
Fair enough, since the same might be said of RH and other distributions.
3) This has nothing to do with hysterics or flag burning. (And, I personally support anyone's right to burn whatever flag they choose. But, my opinions are beside the point...)
Your original post made the irrational assertion that RH/Fedora is "mainly a US 'patriot' distro." Tell this to ELX Linux, an Indian based Fedora-based company... or to RPMForge developers, who are located primarily in the EU and offer exceptional support for Fedora and Red Hat users... or to EzPlanet One, a British company producing a Fedora variant. The list goes on and on. To dismiss Fedora in the way in which you did was petty, prejudiced, and inaccurate, hence my even less-subtle "Francophile" example. I most certainly don't believe this or feel this way about Mandrake or its users. Decrying a distribution based on its national origins -- no matter where it originates -- is simply wrong.
2) Again I challenge your assertion that Mandrake are "less exclusively corporate oriented than say RH." Where's your proof? In fact, here's an excerpt from Mandrake Linux Community Newsletter (Issue # 100 February 10, 2005):
"New U.S. partner program
In January, Mandrakesoft announced the new Mandrakelinux Solution Provider Program, teaming up with IT services companies around the U.S. to provide Linux products and services to small- and
medium-sized businesses. Mandrakesoft will provide sales, marketing and technical support..."
and this:
"HP to sell pre-installed Mandrakelinux systems in Europe
Just ahead of the Solutions Linux conference in Paris, HP announced that it plans to provide and support pre-installed Mandrakelinux solutions across its entire range in France from February onwards..."
While there is nothing wrong in Mandrake's corporate approach, to somehow presume or portray it as more "noble" than any other company's is deceptive and inaccurate.
"Also, Mdk's execs have made it clear that they do commit themselves to freely releasing their apps and they have/are helping the development of free software. BTW, I was commending Mdk in my post, I was not saying about anyone else's committment, or lack thereof, to free software."
Fair enough, since the same might be said of RH and other distributions.
3) This has nothing to do with hysterics or flag burning. (And, I personally support anyone's right to burn whatever flag they choose. But, my opinions are beside the point...)
Your original post made the irrational assertion that RH/Fedora is "mainly a US 'patriot' distro." Tell this to ELX Linux, an Indian based Fedora-based company... or to RPMForge developers, who are located primarily in the EU and offer exceptional support for Fedora and Red Hat users... or to EzPlanet One, a British company producing a Fedora variant. The list goes on and on. To dismiss Fedora in the way in which you did was petty, prejudiced, and inaccurate, hence my even less-subtle "Francophile" example. I most certainly don't believe this or feel this way about Mandrake or its users. Decrying a distribution based on its national origins -- no matter where it originates -- is simply wrong.
you are still wiggling?! [just kidding!]
Seriously, this is getting boring. So I will clarify: Mdk's corporate policy is, indeed, good. It's RH's lack of end-user/desktop/community interest which I deplore. If you will claim that I am making this "RH corporate focus" up I won't even bother arguing about it. You either see it or you don't.
By 'US patriot' distro I did not mean that RH's coders were flag waving Dubya-supporting terrorist-wannabe-killing rednecks. By that I meant that RH's popularity is mainly, but not exclusively, an American thing. Having lived for many years in the USA (where I still am now), I have observed many times over like many, but not all, Americans think of RH as *the* distribution and, even more so, tend to dismiss non-US distros without really comparing them. I have seen them put up with RH install failures without even wanting to consider trying Mandrake since "Mandrake is French shit" (I am quoting here). So let me re-phrase what I put. Here goes:
"It has been my observation that the allegiance of so many Americans to RH is can be mainly credited to parochial views and a primitive sense of nationalism of the kind seen in Ford SUV commercials".
Also, I am not decrying any distribution. I am observing that the citizens of the country whose Congress can seriously support "freedom fries" kind of behavior tend to judge distributions on patriotic grounds.
Lastly, just to clarify. I am not French (-: but I am a Trekkie<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-)
Trekkie over and out.
Seriously, this is getting boring. So I will clarify: Mdk's corporate policy is, indeed, good. It's RH's lack of end-user/desktop/community interest which I deplore. If you will claim that I am making this "RH corporate focus" up I won't even bother arguing about it. You either see it or you don't.
By 'US patriot' distro I did not mean that RH's coders were flag waving Dubya-supporting terrorist-wannabe-killing rednecks. By that I meant that RH's popularity is mainly, but not exclusively, an American thing. Having lived for many years in the USA (where I still am now), I have observed many times over like many, but not all, Americans think of RH as *the* distribution and, even more so, tend to dismiss non-US distros without really comparing them. I have seen them put up with RH install failures without even wanting to consider trying Mandrake since "Mandrake is French shit" (I am quoting here). So let me re-phrase what I put. Here goes:
"It has been my observation that the allegiance of so many Americans to RH is can be mainly credited to parochial views and a primitive sense of nationalism of the kind seen in Ford SUV commercials".
Also, I am not decrying any distribution. I am observing that the citizens of the country whose Congress can seriously support "freedom fries" kind of behavior tend to judge distributions on patriotic grounds.
Lastly, just to clarify. I am not French (-: but I am a Trekkie<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-)
Trekkie over and out.
I don't believe I am the one doing the wiggling. Here is how I read your message.
"...this is getting boring..." - You're running out of logical arguments for illogical "feelings" I have.
"...Dubya-supporting terrorist-wannabe-killing rednecks..." - Politics and not reason, quality, or stability are the primary reasons for your positions.
"...mainly credited to parochial views and a primitive sense of nationalism of the kind seen in Ford SUV commercials..." - Again, this is politics and emotion, not reason. It also ignores significant portions of the American population that don't fall into your stereotype.
"...the citizens of the country whose Congress can seriously support "freedom fries" kind of behavior<nobr> <wbr></nobr>..." - Politics again.
It seems your that you choose Mandrake as some kind of statement of protest (and a poorly reasoned protest, at that) more than for any other reason. If this is the case, there really isn't any point in arguing any further. There are certainly a plethora of non-American distributions you can choose from... (maybe you should consider moving... at least travel around your own country some, to see how diverse viewpoints in the US can be...)
"...this is getting boring..." - You're running out of logical arguments for illogical "feelings" I have.
"...Dubya-supporting terrorist-wannabe-killing rednecks..." - Politics and not reason, quality, or stability are the primary reasons for your positions.
"...mainly credited to parochial views and a primitive sense of nationalism of the kind seen in Ford SUV commercials..." - Again, this is politics and emotion, not reason. It also ignores significant portions of the American population that don't fall into your stereotype.
"...the citizens of the country whose Congress can seriously support "freedom fries" kind of behavior<nobr> <wbr></nobr>..." - Politics again.
It seems your that you choose Mandrake as some kind of statement of protest (and a poorly reasoned protest, at that) more than for any other reason. If this is the case, there really isn't any point in arguing any further. There are certainly a plethora of non-American distributions you can choose from... (maybe you should consider moving... at least travel around your own country some, to see how diverse viewpoints in the US can be...)
In response to point #1:
The issue with the CD-ROM drive actually *was* the manufacturer's fault. LG decided to have their CD-ROM drive use a standard ATAPI command in a non-standard way. If the drive follows the ATAPI standard (like these claimed to), the command only does anything on a DVD-RW or CD-RW drive. In the case of these LG CD-ROM drives, they decided to use this command to *flash the drive's firmware*!
As for why RedHat and Debian didn't have a problem with the LG drives? Simple. Mandrake's release came before theirs, so by the time they released their distributions, the kernel drivers had been patched to *never* send that command to those types of drives, *and* LG had released new firmware which no longer suffered from the problem.
Here's the details of the issue:
"A problem with LG CD-ROM drives was discovered that the kernel shipped with Mandrakelinux 9.2 triggered. This problem was that the kernel would send a FLUSH_CACHE command to the LG CD-ROM drive which would make the drive inoperable by overwriting its firmware. This is because some LG CD-ROM drives are not compliant with the ATAPI specification. The specification does not require an implementation of the FLUSH_CACHE command in the driver, and returning an error (or doing nothing) would have been the correct behaviour for the drive. Likewise, reusing a command is against the specification and LG has reused the FLUSH_CACHE command to modify the firmware of the drive, but they are unwilling to disclose exactly what the command does. This FLUSH_CACHE command is supposed to be supported only by CD-RW or DVD-RW devices; the LG-based CD-ROM devices are understanding this command as the UPLOAD_FIRMWARE command."
Check this page for the full story: http://www.mandrakelinux.com/en/lgerrata.php3
The issue with the CD-ROM drive actually *was* the manufacturer's fault. LG decided to have their CD-ROM drive use a standard ATAPI command in a non-standard way. If the drive follows the ATAPI standard (like these claimed to), the command only does anything on a DVD-RW or CD-RW drive. In the case of these LG CD-ROM drives, they decided to use this command to *flash the drive's firmware*!
As for why RedHat and Debian didn't have a problem with the LG drives? Simple. Mandrake's release came before theirs, so by the time they released their distributions, the kernel drivers had been patched to *never* send that command to those types of drives, *and* LG had released new firmware which no longer suffered from the problem.
Here's the details of the issue:
"A problem with LG CD-ROM drives was discovered that the kernel shipped with Mandrakelinux 9.2 triggered. This problem was that the kernel would send a FLUSH_CACHE command to the LG CD-ROM drive which would make the drive inoperable by overwriting its firmware. This is because some LG CD-ROM drives are not compliant with the ATAPI specification. The specification does not require an implementation of the FLUSH_CACHE command in the driver, and returning an error (or doing nothing) would have been the correct behaviour for the drive. Likewise, reusing a command is against the specification and LG has reused the FLUSH_CACHE command to modify the firmware of the drive, but they are unwilling to disclose exactly what the command does. This FLUSH_CACHE command is supposed to be supported only by CD-RW or DVD-RW devices; the LG-based CD-ROM devices are understanding this command as the UPLOAD_FIRMWARE command."
Check this page for the full story: http://www.mandrakelinux.com/en/lgerrata.php3
Yes, and LG is such a minor manufacturer surely neither Mandrake nor any of its beta testers would had an opportunity to test on an LG drive. (Apologies for the sarcasm.) I wonder if Microsoft had behaved similarly, if you'd feel the same way. I know my opinion would be identical, in either case.
My real problem is this: Had this been the only Mandrake gaffe or one of relatively few (I'm thinking of both SuSE's and Red Hat's 7.0 series, for example), it would be one thing. But, until the advent of the "Community/Official" model, Mandrake releases have been pretty buggy -- and I'm not the only one who has had this experience. Couple this with ineptitude in delivering product to paying customers and a troubling pattern emerges.
I am an old time Mandrake user and have always wanted them to do well, but they've disappointed me at any number of turns. I sincerely hope MDK gets their act together, and it seems they are making progress. But, the old proverb stands: "People in glass houses shouldn't cast stones." While legitimate technical criticism is "fair game," it's immensely irritating when someone "cheap shots" the hard work (and in many ways superior work) of one distribution in favor of another that is just as flawed, if not moreso.
My real problem is this: Had this been the only Mandrake gaffe or one of relatively few (I'm thinking of both SuSE's and Red Hat's 7.0 series, for example), it would be one thing. But, until the advent of the "Community/Official" model, Mandrake releases have been pretty buggy -- and I'm not the only one who has had this experience. Couple this with ineptitude in delivering product to paying customers and a troubling pattern emerges.
I am an old time Mandrake user and have always wanted them to do well, but they've disappointed me at any number of turns. I sincerely hope MDK gets their act together, and it seems they are making progress. But, the old proverb stands: "People in glass houses shouldn't cast stones." While legitimate technical criticism is "fair game," it's immensely irritating when someone "cheap shots" the hard work (and in many ways superior work) of one distribution in favor of another that is just as flawed, if not moreso.
Yes, and LG is such a minor manufacturer surely neither Mandrake nor any of its beta testers would had an opportunity to test on an LG drive.
Please don't make claims like this without bothering to research the issue.
Mandrakesoft's QA department did actually test on a number of LG drives (including models that were affected), but they all had the newer firmware (which did not have the flaw) prior to the 9.2 release.
Why would the problem be fixed in newer firmwares LG was shipping if it wasn't an LG bug? Why did LG replace drives if it was a software-only bug?
Please don't make claims like this without bothering to research the issue.
Mandrakesoft's QA department did actually test on a number of LG drives (including models that were affected), but they all had the newer firmware (which did not have the flaw) prior to the 9.2 release.
Why would the problem be fixed in newer firmwares LG was shipping if it wasn't an LG bug? Why did LG replace drives if it was a software-only bug?
Although both of you guys are obviously idiots for having this debate, you are by far the bigger idiot for blaming the LG problem on Mandrake.
This reads like a press release...
YaST makes the mandrake control center look childish..
Ive used both Mandrake and SUSE.. mandrake is too bleeding edge for any real work related use..
SUSE just blows it away,, and has been since version 7.2 when I switched from Mandrake.. flame away.
Ive used both Mandrake and SUSE.. mandrake is too bleeding edge for any real work related use..
SUSE just blows it away,, and has been since version 7.2 when I switched from Mandrake.. flame away.
I switched away from SuSE precisely because of YAST. Granted, this was back with SuSE 7.1, and I understand that YAST has improved dramatically since then, but I am now too familiar and entrenched with Mandrake to be willing to change (again…).
While YAST proved to be an excellent centralized administration tool, I found it supremely irritating that it would blithely erase any specific customizations that I had made directly to various configuration files, in favor of the configuration that it was aware of. At the very least, in my opinion, it should have put up a dialog warning me that it was about to do this, and "…do I want it to continue?". I've heard that current iterations of YAST do not do this anymore (and some I've talked to seem to believe that it never did—maybe I had a faulty installation, somehow?).
Don't get me wrong; there was a great deal about SuSE that I liked, and thought was very well put together, but at the time, Mandrake was just a better fit for what I needed—ok, wanted to be able to do.
Incidentally, the Mandrake configuration tools proved to be just as guilty of overwriting specific customizations as YAST was, but with Mandrake, I was able to figure out exactly how to modify the source files it used to manage these configurations; with SuSE, it just never quite clicked. Of course, that probably says more about me, rather than the quality of SuSE…
Incidentally, isn't it just Suse nowadays? I thought they decided to move away from the fanciful capitalization. Just wondering.
Ahhh.. how one assumes.... YOu think I havent installed Mandrake since then? you would be wrong.. Mandrake does wireless better. Thats about it.. VMware rocks when determining the value of a Linux install....
ok. if you have installed and used Mdk since I take my comment back.
"YaST makes the mandrake control center look childish."
As someone who has just switched from Mandrake to Suse I can tell you that is bullshit. There is very little difference between Yast and MCC in the user interface. If you have used one you will be able to quickly find what you want in the other. The user interfaces have more in common between them than differences. The backends to both will share much code in common as they are based on the same *nix/bash command line programs.
As someone who has just switched from Mandrake to Suse I can tell you that is bullshit. There is very little difference between Yast and MCC in the user interface. If you have used one you will be able to quickly find what you want in the other. The user interfaces have more in common between them than differences. The backends to both will share much code in common as they are based on the same *nix/bash command line programs.
The only thing I will give you about the MCC is that it doesnt overwrite the config files like yast... though yast does give you a backup file..
Man everyone is so touchy<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:D
use mandrake if you like it.. I push what I like.. just like you guys<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;)
in fact I will use mandrake for a week to calm all nerves... deal?
Man everyone is so touchy<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:D
use mandrake if you like it.. I push what I like.. just like you guys<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;)
in fact I will use mandrake for a week to calm all nerves... deal?
YaST makes the mandrake control center look childish..
But at least Mandrake Control Center is useable by non-gurus.
For example, try changing any boot-related configuration in Yast (like framebuffer resolution). You have to know to use "vga=xxx", and know the vesa mode numbers, whereas drakboot lets you choose the resolution from a drop-down box.
mandrake is too bleeding edge for any real work related use..
You obviously haven't used Mandrake recently, the last one the used bleeding-edge packages was 7.2.
But at least Mandrake Control Center is useable by non-gurus.
For example, try changing any boot-related configuration in Yast (like framebuffer resolution). You have to know to use "vga=xxx", and know the vesa mode numbers, whereas drakboot lets you choose the resolution from a drop-down box.
mandrake is too bleeding edge for any real work related use..
You obviously haven't used Mandrake recently, the last one the used bleeding-edge packages was 7.2.
I am in the process of switching from Mandrake (been using for 3 or 4 years) to Suse. Ironically I can get the 64 bit Suse for free via ftp while the Mandrake 64 bit you have to buy or become a Silver member of the club at something like 120 Euros/year.
I am fed up with Mandrake club. I could only ever afford the basic membership which did not give me 3d drivers for my video card yet cost 66 Euros/year. Why the hell should I pay more for the OS than Windows XP would cost? I can buy XP once and Mandrake wants a yearly subscription. I am willing to contribute money toward open software but I don't want to pay more than I would running MSWindows.
I have not completely given up on Mandrake but I am sick of paying for the ability to down load the Community Edition to beta test for the later release of Official. All this has led me to feel that Mandrake is buggy and unstable. Perhaps if I had not been using the early editions of the OS I would not feel that way.
I sure miss urpmi on Suse but there is apt-get that I can bunge in later. There is a shortage of apps for 64 bit and I am waiting for them to be included before fully committing to a switch. Suse does feel stable as a rock and it looks nice too.
I am fed up with Mandrake club. I could only ever afford the basic membership which did not give me 3d drivers for my video card yet cost 66 Euros/year. Why the hell should I pay more for the OS than Windows XP would cost? I can buy XP once and Mandrake wants a yearly subscription. I am willing to contribute money toward open software but I don't want to pay more than I would running MSWindows.
I have not completely given up on Mandrake but I am sick of paying for the ability to down load the Community Edition to beta test for the later release of Official. All this has led me to feel that Mandrake is buggy and unstable. Perhaps if I had not been using the early editions of the OS I would not feel that way.
I sure miss urpmi on Suse but there is apt-get that I can bunge in later. There is a shortage of apps for 64 bit and I am waiting for them to be included before fully committing to a switch. Suse does feel stable as a rock and it looks nice too.
I couldn't agree more. I went down the same route 2 years ago and SUSE has never disappointed me. And once you learn how to use apt4rpm you'll never miss urpmi again.
well you are leaving out one CURRENT little problem..suse is NO LONGER FREE since novell took over...
so to me its no longer linux.
so to me its no longer linux.
If you like Mandrake, you'll love PCLinuxOS
Livecd - let's you test things out first
Newer software - very frequent updates
Apt-get/synaptic - faster and easier than urpmi
Livecd - let's you test things out first
Newer software - very frequent updates
Apt-get/synaptic - faster and easier than urpmi
I have used PCLinuxOS for some time and it is nice. It updates packages a bit quickly though and can run into problems.
At the moment printing is not working for many users using PCLinuxOS - I am one of them which means I am changing to Mepis/Ubuntu not sure which.
At the moment printing is not working for many users using PCLinuxOS - I am one of them which means I am changing to Mepis/Ubuntu not sure which.
Looking at Debian? Skip Mepis and Ubuntu... go directly to Kanotix. It's better than the rest.
How exactly is it better?
Kanotix didn't configure my pcmcia slots, so my wireless card was useless; both mepis and ubuntu did...
How can apt, with or without Synaptic, be easier than urpmi? Both require a basic setup with adding mirrors and after that, I have to say: The difference between
<TT>apt-get install [program] </TT>and
<TT>urpmi [program] </TT>isn't all that huge, you know? And Mandrake's package administration control center and Synaptic don't look too different.
How can apt, with or without Synaptic, be easier than urpmi?
<A HREF="http://people.debian.org/~srivasta/talks/why_debian/talk.html" title="debian.org">Policy</a debian.org>.
<A HREF="http://people.debian.org/~srivasta/talks/why_debian/talk.html" title="debian.org">Policy</a debian.org>.
I believe that would be the "Why it is better", not the "why it is easier". I am not an anti-Debianite - on the contrary - I just couldn't see a tangible difference in the example mentioned.
I believe that would be the "Why it is better", not the "why it is easier".
In my opinion, it would be both.
On the apt side of things, you get 18k+ packages, fully supported from one Debian source. On the urpmi side, you get a number (I can't say how many) of packages, unknown support, from different sources via urpmi. I've dealt with Mandrake's support, "security team", and bug tracking systems firsthand. They leave much to be desired.
In my opinion, it would be both.
On the apt side of things, you get 18k+ packages, fully supported from one Debian source. On the urpmi side, you get a number (I can't say how many) of packages, unknown support, from different sources via urpmi. I've dealt with Mandrake's support, "security team", and bug tracking systems firsthand. They leave much to be desired.
Good point.
"you get 18k+ packages"
No , its a myth of mixing testing, unstable and stable
http://www.debian.org/
"Debian GNU/Linux provides more than a pure OS: it comes with more than 8710 packages"
Apt is inferior to URPMI in every way , the problem URPMI as are that most people who speak of it ( thsi means you ) dont know what URPMI can do. They assume its the same as the inferior APT<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...
Debian is not only one source ,
http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=deb<nobr>i<wbr></nobr> an
http://distrowatch.com/dwres.php?resource=indepen<nobr>d<wbr></nobr> ence
AbulΙdu Adamantix AGNULA GNU/Linux Audio Distribution Amber Linux ANTEMIUM Linux Arabbix ARMA aka Omoikane GNU/Linux ASLinux Auditor Security Linux Augustux B2D Linux BeatrIX Linux BEERnix Biadix BIG LINUX Bioknoppix BlackRhino Bluewall GNU/Linux Bonzai Linux BrlSpeak Cΰtix CensorNet Clusterix ClusterKNOPPIX Condorux Damn Small Linux Danix DeadCD DebXPde Dizinha Linux eduKnoppix ERPOSS ESware Evinux Euronode FAMELIX Feather Linux Flonix Vital Data Forensic or Rescue Kit (FoRK) Freeduc-cd Freeduc-Sup GEOLivre Linux Gibraltar Firewall GNIX-Vivo Gnoppix Linux gnuLinEx GNU/Linux Kinneret GNUstep Live CD grml Guadalinex Helix Hikarunix Hiweed Linux Impi Linux IndLinux Julex K-DEMar Kaella Knoppix Linux Azur Kalango Linux KANOTIX KlusTriX knopILS Knoppel Knoppix Knoppix 64 Knoppix STD KnoppiXMAME KnoppMyth KnoSciences Kurumin Linux LAMPPIX Libranet GNU/Linux LIIS Linux LinEspa Linspire Linux Live Game Project Linux Loco LinuxDefender Live! CD Linuxin LiVux Local Area Security Linux (L.A.S.) Luinux Luit Linux MAX: Madrid_Linux Mediainlinux MEPIS Linux Metadistro-Pequelin MIKO GNYO/Linux MoLinux Morphix Munjoy Linux Nature's Linux NordisKnoppix OGo Knoppix Oralux Overclockix Quantian PaiPix ParallelKnoppix Parsix GNU/Linux Penguin Sleuth PHLAK PilotLinux Progeny Debian Rays Linux ROSLIMS Live CD Salvare Santa Fe Linux Skolelinux Slavix Slix Slo-Tech Linux Soyombo Mongolian Linux SphinxOS Tablix on Morphix Tilix Linux TupiServer Linux Ubuntu Linux UserLinux WHoppiX X-evian Xfld Xandros Desktop OS Xarnoppix Zen Linux ZoneCD Zopix
urpmi as bout 120 000 package<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...
"unknown support"
I tought it whas supported by MandrakeSoft , unlike Debian where nobody really know who does what<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...
"I've dealt with Mandrake's support"
Please tell me what support you speak of ?
"security team"
I seriously doubt your qualified to speak with the MandrakeSoft security team. they only accept "certified" and recognized expert<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...
"and bug tracking systems firsthand"
I guess you said : "this is buggy" and got absolutely no response<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... for info its not a bug report<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...
Actually if Debian whas 1 / 1 trillion of what mandrake is for the budget and people working on it we would have gnu/Linux on every computer<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...
It amaze me everyday that a team of 40 - 100 beat the crap out of a team of 10 000 paid developper<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...
No , its a myth of mixing testing, unstable and stable
http://www.debian.org/
"Debian GNU/Linux provides more than a pure OS: it comes with more than 8710 packages"
Apt is inferior to URPMI in every way , the problem URPMI as are that most people who speak of it ( thsi means you ) dont know what URPMI can do. They assume its the same as the inferior APT<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...
Debian is not only one source ,
http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=deb<nobr>i<wbr></nobr> an
http://distrowatch.com/dwres.php?resource=indepen<nobr>d<wbr></nobr> ence
AbulΙdu Adamantix AGNULA GNU/Linux Audio Distribution Amber Linux ANTEMIUM Linux Arabbix ARMA aka Omoikane GNU/Linux ASLinux Auditor Security Linux Augustux B2D Linux BeatrIX Linux BEERnix Biadix BIG LINUX Bioknoppix BlackRhino Bluewall GNU/Linux Bonzai Linux BrlSpeak Cΰtix CensorNet Clusterix ClusterKNOPPIX Condorux Damn Small Linux Danix DeadCD DebXPde Dizinha Linux eduKnoppix ERPOSS ESware Evinux Euronode FAMELIX Feather Linux Flonix Vital Data Forensic or Rescue Kit (FoRK) Freeduc-cd Freeduc-Sup GEOLivre Linux Gibraltar Firewall GNIX-Vivo Gnoppix Linux gnuLinEx GNU/Linux Kinneret GNUstep Live CD grml Guadalinex Helix Hikarunix Hiweed Linux Impi Linux IndLinux Julex K-DEMar Kaella Knoppix Linux Azur Kalango Linux KANOTIX KlusTriX knopILS Knoppel Knoppix Knoppix 64 Knoppix STD KnoppiXMAME KnoppMyth KnoSciences Kurumin Linux LAMPPIX Libranet GNU/Linux LIIS Linux LinEspa Linspire Linux Live Game Project Linux Loco LinuxDefender Live! CD Linuxin LiVux Local Area Security Linux (L.A.S.) Luinux Luit Linux MAX: Madrid_Linux Mediainlinux MEPIS Linux Metadistro-Pequelin MIKO GNYO/Linux MoLinux Morphix Munjoy Linux Nature's Linux NordisKnoppix OGo Knoppix Oralux Overclockix Quantian PaiPix ParallelKnoppix Parsix GNU/Linux Penguin Sleuth PHLAK PilotLinux Progeny Debian Rays Linux ROSLIMS Live CD Salvare Santa Fe Linux Skolelinux Slavix Slix Slo-Tech Linux Soyombo Mongolian Linux SphinxOS Tablix on Morphix Tilix Linux TupiServer Linux Ubuntu Linux UserLinux WHoppiX X-evian Xfld Xandros Desktop OS Xarnoppix Zen Linux ZoneCD Zopix
urpmi as bout 120 000 package<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...
"unknown support"
I tought it whas supported by MandrakeSoft , unlike Debian where nobody really know who does what<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...
"I've dealt with Mandrake's support"
Please tell me what support you speak of ?
"security team"
I seriously doubt your qualified to speak with the MandrakeSoft security team. they only accept "certified" and recognized expert<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...
"and bug tracking systems firsthand"
I guess you said : "this is buggy" and got absolutely no response<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... for info its not a bug report<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...
Actually if Debian whas 1 / 1 trillion of what mandrake is for the budget and people working on it we would have gnu/Linux on every computer<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...
It amaze me everyday that a team of 40 - 100 beat the crap out of a team of 10 000 paid developper<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...
Agreed. PCLOS uses many of the Mandrake tools, but seems much better integrated and polished -- far less (in fact, almost no) annoying bugs and most features work "out of the box." I prefer apt/Synaptic to urpmi (and yum, YaST, etc.), since apt is a cross-distro (Debian, Fedora, Connectiva, SUSE, etc.) package management tool -- gives Linux users more of a "common language" when discussing package management. Another option with PCLOS is to remaster your own live CD from a hard disk install. PCLOS has a friendly, active support community, too. Pretty nice, all in all. If you haven't tried it, please do.
Caveat for GNOME/xfce fans: PCLOS is a KDE distribution, although GNOME and xfce are available from apt/Synaptic, after install.
Caveat for FOSS zealots: PCLOS bundles quite a few non-Free packages.
Caveat for GNOME/xfce fans: PCLOS is a KDE distribution, although GNOME and xfce are available from apt/Synaptic, after install.
Caveat for FOSS zealots: PCLOS bundles quite a few non-Free packages.
I prefer apt/Synaptic to urpmi
Well, both are in Mandrakelinux contrib
Another option with PCLOS is to remaster your own live CD from a hard disk install.
Using packages that are on Mandrakelinux contrib. You can do this on any Mandrakelinux install (it's been possible since 9.1 or so).
PCLOS is a KDE distribution, although GNOME and xfce are available from apt/Synaptic, after install.
As on Mandrakelinux (XFCE is in contrib).
Caveat for FOSS zealots: PCLOS bundles quite a few non-Free packages.
And most of them come from PLF.
Well, both are in Mandrakelinux contrib
Another option with PCLOS is to remaster your own live CD from a hard disk install.
Using packages that are on Mandrakelinux contrib. You can do this on any Mandrakelinux install (it's been possible since 9.1 or so).
PCLOS is a KDE distribution, although GNOME and xfce are available from apt/Synaptic, after install.
As on Mandrakelinux (XFCE is in contrib).
Caveat for FOSS zealots: PCLOS bundles quite a few non-Free packages.
And most of them come from PLF.
Although I'm a Mandrake user, I can't find myself in the above article.
Mandrake's hardware detection is good, but not perfect. On my centrino notebook, it installed the WLAN driver, but not the corresponding firmware. The result was a 2 minute delay during startup. So, dear readers, since this artice is a disappointment for you, I will tell you why I use Mandrake as my desktop OS.
I switched from SuSE 8.1 to Mandrake 9.1 about 2 years ago, because SuSE 8.1 was so buggy (compared to SuSE 7.3) that I said "time for something new".
What are the advantages of Mandrake for desktop users? First of all, it's bleeding edge. Considering all the work that has been going into the development of Gnome and KDE, this is a good thing. The desktop apps have been constantly improved, so it is a good thing to have the most current stable versions. They may have bugs, but the older version had bugs, too. Second, it's pretty. It's much more stylish than e.g. SuSE. Of course, you can always invest some time to pimp up your desktop, but Mandrake has a head start in this discipline. Third, because it comes from Europe, it's not patent encumbered like Fedora. Yes, it plays MP3 out of the box. Forth, it's free or cheap. While you can pay about 60 Euro or so for the officical boxes, you can also get the community edition for about 10 Euro at your local newspaper kiosk (at least where I live), bundled with a Linux magazine. This is convenient and minimizes the risk that you invest much money in a distro that sucks. Reason number five: TOra. Since I have to work a lot with the Oracle database system, this tool is a must for me. The author of TOra builds his RPMs for Mandrake, so it's easy to get and install. Number 6: The Mandrake club. I'm a member in the club, an I think it's worth every cent. Whenever I read about a new program that I want to try, in most cases I can download the RPM from the mandrake club. Even in the rare cases when I have to go the configure;make;make install way, at least I can get the necessary libs this way.
Mandrake's hardware detection is good, but not perfect. On my centrino notebook, it installed the WLAN driver, but not the corresponding firmware. The result was a 2 minute delay during startup. So, dear readers, since this artice is a disappointment for you, I will tell you why I use Mandrake as my desktop OS.
I switched from SuSE 8.1 to Mandrake 9.1 about 2 years ago, because SuSE 8.1 was so buggy (compared to SuSE 7.3) that I said "time for something new".
What are the advantages of Mandrake for desktop users? First of all, it's bleeding edge. Considering all the work that has been going into the development of Gnome and KDE, this is a good thing. The desktop apps have been constantly improved, so it is a good thing to have the most current stable versions. They may have bugs, but the older version had bugs, too. Second, it's pretty. It's much more stylish than e.g. SuSE. Of course, you can always invest some time to pimp up your desktop, but Mandrake has a head start in this discipline. Third, because it comes from Europe, it's not patent encumbered like Fedora. Yes, it plays MP3 out of the box. Forth, it's free or cheap. While you can pay about 60 Euro or so for the officical boxes, you can also get the community edition for about 10 Euro at your local newspaper kiosk (at least where I live), bundled with a Linux magazine. This is convenient and minimizes the risk that you invest much money in a distro that sucks. Reason number five: TOra. Since I have to work a lot with the Oracle database system, this tool is a must for me. The author of TOra builds his RPMs for Mandrake, so it's easy to get and install. Number 6: The Mandrake club. I'm a member in the club, an I think it's worth every cent. Whenever I read about a new program that I want to try, in most cases I can download the RPM from the mandrake club. Even in the rare cases when I have to go the configure;make;make install way, at least I can get the necessary libs this way.
How can this article be "useless PR" if it is one person's opinion of their favorite distro? Critics say this because they do not share the author's sentiments or because they don't understand the article...ya think?
"I don't agree with the article; therefore, it is 'useless PR'". Petty, really petty.
"I don't agree with the article; therefore, it is 'useless PR'". Petty, really petty.
NEWS : SuSe is Dead , NEWS raeding skill low here
Posted by: Moulinneuf on February 12, 2005 08:15 AMNEWS : in 2004 NOVELL ACQUIRRED SUSE , SUSE as a COMPANY DONT EXIST ANYMORE<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...
SuSe whas Bankrupt in 2000 they got bought by IBM who made them stay alive by funding and managing it , IBM dont whant another Microsoft, they sold it for peanuts 280 Million for a distribution like SUSE is peanut. IBM sold it to NOVELL but keep 10% rights.
ALL the product you see on the FTP of SUSE are there because of NOVELL.
FOR THE PEOPLE WHO CANT READ PROPERLY AND SPEAL OF PR :
"What's your desktop OS of choice? Write an article of less than 1,000 words telling us what you use and why. If we publish it, we'll pay you $200. So far, we've heard from fans of FreeBSD, Mepis Linux, Debian, Xandros, Slackware, Windows XP, Lycoris, SUSE Professional, NetBSD, Ubuntu, FreeDOS, and Libranet. Coming soon: Linspire, Knoppix, Gentoo, and more."
Its someone who maybee made 200$ for contributing<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...
NEWS : SuSe is Dead , NEWS reading skill low here
Posted by: Moulinneuf on February 12, 2005 08:18 AM
NEWS : in 2004 NOVELL ACQUIRRED SUSE , SUSE as a COMPANY DONT EXIST ANYMORE<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...
SuSe whas Bankrupt in 2000 they got bought by IBM who made them stay alive by funding and managing it , IBM dont whant another Microsoft, they sold it for peanuts 280 Million for a distribution like SUSE is peanut.
IBM sold it to NOVELL but keep 10% rights. ALL the product you see on the FTP of SUSE are there because of NOVELL.
FOR THE PEOPLE WHO CANT READ PROPERLY AND SPEAL OF PR :
"What's your desktop OS of choice? Write an article of less than 1,000 words telling us what you use and why. If we publish it, we'll pay you $200. So far, we've heard from fans of FreeBSD, Mepis Linux, Debian, Xandros, Slackware, Windows XP, Lycoris, SUSE Professional, NetBSD, Ubuntu, FreeDOS, and Libranet. Coming soon: Linspire, Knoppix, Gentoo, and more."
Its someone who maybee made 200$ for contributing<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...
SuSe whas Bankrupt in 2000 they got bought by IBM who made them stay alive by funding and managing it , IBM dont whant another Microsoft, they sold it for peanuts 280 Million for a distribution like SUSE is peanut.
IBM sold it to NOVELL but keep 10% rights. ALL the product you see on the FTP of SUSE are there because of NOVELL.
FOR THE PEOPLE WHO CANT READ PROPERLY AND SPEAL OF PR :
"What's your desktop OS of choice? Write an article of less than 1,000 words telling us what you use and why. If we publish it, we'll pay you $200. So far, we've heard from fans of FreeBSD, Mepis Linux, Debian, Xandros, Slackware, Windows XP, Lycoris, SUSE Professional, NetBSD, Ubuntu, FreeDOS, and Libranet. Coming soon: Linspire, Knoppix, Gentoo, and more."
Its someone who maybee made 200$ for contributing<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...
Re:NEWS : SuSe is Dead , NEWS reading skill low he
Posted by: Anonymous Coward on February 12, 2005 09:34 AM
dis-voir, l'moulin. nous avions pige la premiere fois, pas besoin de repeter...
ceci dit - t'as pas tort. ils sont barge ici avec leur Suse de merde
ceci dit - t'as pas tort. ils sont barge ici avec leur Suse de merde
Re:NEWS : SuSe is Dead , NEWS reading skill low he
Posted by: Moulinneuf on February 12, 2005 05:14 PM
Dιsoler , je pensait avoir fait submit seulement
Re:NEWS : SuSe is Dead , NEWS reading skill low he
Posted by: Anonymous Coward on February 12, 2005 08:44 PM
Bonjour m'sieur l'Moulin,
No prob comme disent les ricains. en plus, ca m'a donne l'occasion d'ecrire dans la langue de Moliere tout en emmerdant les anglos du coin.
a+
No prob comme disent les ricains. en plus, ca m'a donne l'occasion d'ecrire dans la langue de Moliere tout en emmerdant les anglos du coin.
a+
Re:NEWS : SuSe is Dead , NEWS reading skill low he
Posted by: ickusslime on February 13, 2005 02:25 AM
well as long as Novell refers to it as SUSE we will call it that... When they switch it to Novell completely I will call it what they call it..
But hey who cares... its all opensource now, so someone can fork it.....
I think I threw the topic off of the posts... some one give me some more details of mandrake? Im trying it for a week to see if I should switch back....
But hey who cares... its all opensource now, so someone can fork it.....
I think I threw the topic off of the posts... some one give me some more details of mandrake? Im trying it for a week to see if I should switch back....
Is upgrading a previous version of Mandrake any easier now than it was when I used it last (read: is it possible now)?. Trying to move from 7.2 to 8.x and 8.x to 9 was a nightmare - I ended up giving up and going to debian.
After using debian for a while I reinstalled 9 on a spare harddrive and gave urpmi a whirl. The main issue that I had with it then was the sheer size of the package lists that had to be downloaded (I was getting about 4 megs doing apt-get update under debian, and something like 27megs using urpmi - needless to say that I didn't bother finishing this download (using 56k at the time<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:/)).
Not that there weren't some things I liked about urpmi - the hd-synthlist (Or whatever it was called) that allowed for just downloading the differences (a la rsync) when updating the urpmi package list sounded very good - but as I mentioned I didn't sit through the initial download so didn't have a chance to try it out<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:/
After using debian for a while I reinstalled 9 on a spare harddrive and gave urpmi a whirl. The main issue that I had with it then was the sheer size of the package lists that had to be downloaded (I was getting about 4 megs doing apt-get update under debian, and something like 27megs using urpmi - needless to say that I didn't bother finishing this download (using 56k at the time<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:/)).
Not that there weren't some things I liked about urpmi - the hd-synthlist (Or whatever it was called) that allowed for just downloading the differences (a la rsync) when updating the urpmi package list sounded very good - but as I mentioned I didn't sit through the initial download so didn't have a chance to try it out<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:/
look - updating with a 56k is just not a sound idea. it has nothing to do with Mdk. as for the difference in upgrade download between Mdk and Deb its simply a result of your install choices. again, it has nothing to do with the distros.
it does not matter which packages you choose , urpmi and apt download the full list of available packages.
I however believe that urpmi as a strong point with its rsync like list updating. In hte end with debian you will download 4M for each update, not i mandrake.
Those issues are work in progress in debian. After dppk2 and gpg signed list upload (apt 0.6) i guess.
A debian forever user.
Alban
I however believe that urpmi as a strong point with its rsync like list updating. In hte end with debian you will download 4M for each update, not i mandrake.
Those issues are work in progress in debian. After dppk2 and gpg signed list upload (apt 0.6) i guess.
A debian forever user.
Alban
There's an option with urpmi to use a less detailed package list (doesn't provide the blurbs about the package). I'd imagine that's what was taking up the extra 20MB for you.
Hi,
I have been using Mandrake for several years, since 7.2 or 8.0. What I like about it, is the finishing touch. I recently was forced to install and work with Suse 9.0. I can get very annoyed about its inability to use the home and end buttons on a command line. The backspace key doesn't work in vi. Little things, but they are taken care of in Mandrake for as long as I can remember.
I have used Mandrake for reading my mail with Mozilla, writing CDs and DVDs with K3b. I set up a DB server with Postgresql, a backup server with Bacula, a Nagios server to check out the rest of the network. DHCP, Terminal server (LTSP) it all just works and it works well.
It's a pity IBM doesn't want to make its products (DB2, Notes server and client, Websphere, etc) work with it. Mandrake has been LSB-compliant since about 9.2, so it should be very feasible to do so. If they would, I would be able to defend it better for use at my work. I don't believe IBM really backs Linux until they do this.
Now they're trying to push me to go with Suse. The other option, Redhat, is just way too expensive so they're not even considered anymore since their brilliant move to leave behind their hobbyist users.
I want to see Mandrake succeed! They have a lot going for them.
Jo
I have been using Mandrake for several years, since 7.2 or 8.0. What I like about it, is the finishing touch. I recently was forced to install and work with Suse 9.0. I can get very annoyed about its inability to use the home and end buttons on a command line. The backspace key doesn't work in vi. Little things, but they are taken care of in Mandrake for as long as I can remember.
I have used Mandrake for reading my mail with Mozilla, writing CDs and DVDs with K3b. I set up a DB server with Postgresql, a backup server with Bacula, a Nagios server to check out the rest of the network. DHCP, Terminal server (LTSP) it all just works and it works well.
It's a pity IBM doesn't want to make its products (DB2, Notes server and client, Websphere, etc) work with it. Mandrake has been LSB-compliant since about 9.2, so it should be very feasible to do so. If they would, I would be able to defend it better for use at my work. I don't believe IBM really backs Linux until they do this.
Now they're trying to push me to go with Suse. The other option, Redhat, is just way too expensive so they're not even considered anymore since their brilliant move to leave behind their hobbyist users.
I want to see Mandrake succeed! They have a lot going for them.
Jo
The Mandrake Corporate Server now comes with IBM's DB2.
One thing that I'm fed up of hearing is that "Mandrake is for newbies!"
Hell, I'm no newbie. I can fly around any Linux box via a terminal window, and I code for Linux in C/C++. I know people who spend hours tweaking their user-unfriendly distros, who could never aspire to developing a small C++ program for Linux.
Sure I use other distros, but Mandrake sits on my desktop. I really don't want to have to spend time tweaking Linux, I'd rather be doing more productive things.
Mandrake installs fast, supports hardware well, and has been the easiest to get running for me. Also, if I do come across somebody that wants to try Linux, I can offer them Mandrake, and also point them in the right direction if they should have any issues. I like to encourage as many people to use Linux as possible.
Hell, I'm no newbie. I can fly around any Linux box via a terminal window, and I code for Linux in C/C++. I know people who spend hours tweaking their user-unfriendly distros, who could never aspire to developing a small C++ program for Linux.
Sure I use other distros, but Mandrake sits on my desktop. I really don't want to have to spend time tweaking Linux, I'd rather be doing more productive things.
Mandrake installs fast, supports hardware well, and has been the easiest to get running for me. Also, if I do come across somebody that wants to try Linux, I can offer them Mandrake, and also point them in the right direction if they should have any issues. I like to encourage as many people to use Linux as possible.
I think the reason this is stated is that it's the easiest, and most powerful distro for newbies to install and learn to use. I too am a power user, having deployed & maintained hundreds of systems on Redhat (5.1-9.0) at a former job. I also have used Gentoo, Suse, and started on Slackware.
But, if I can give my mother (65 year old legal secretary) a used IBM Thinkpad 600E and a Mandrake dvd, and without any help from me, get it running in an hour on the internet AND using her Word documents without any problems, then it ranks high for new users.
It has a lot of GUI interfaces for configuring the system, and the underlying config files are usually well documented for people that want to learn how to dig deeper. My 14 year old son uses it exclusivly for school work & games (he's been downloading open source games for about a year now).
Distros that are "Newbie Only" would include Lindows/Linspire, where you are given full control just for sitting at the keyboard (bad, very bad).
GrueMaster
But, if I can give my mother (65 year old legal secretary) a used IBM Thinkpad 600E and a Mandrake dvd, and without any help from me, get it running in an hour on the internet AND using her Word documents without any problems, then it ranks high for new users.
It has a lot of GUI interfaces for configuring the system, and the underlying config files are usually well documented for people that want to learn how to dig deeper. My 14 year old son uses it exclusivly for school work & games (he's been downloading open source games for about a year now).
Distros that are "Newbie Only" would include Lindows/Linspire, where you are given full control just for sitting at the keyboard (bad, very bad).
GrueMaster
Mandrake has great configuration tools, but they are too spread out across different parts of the System menu. I pity the newbie to wants to configure several things after first installation. In fact, if you want to create shortcuts of those tools, you'll have to create at least half a dozen.
Having all configuration tools in one place, Yast, Suse bests mandrake in that, by knockout.
Beyond that, I'd say Mandrake 10.1 and Suse 9.2 are about equally good. (I use both in my home network)
Having all configuration tools in one place, Yast, Suse bests mandrake in that, by knockout.
Beyond that, I'd say Mandrake 10.1 and Suse 9.2 are about equally good. (I use both in my home network)
I'm only have 1 year and a half being a linux converse. I was using MDK first, but in the last 2 months I needed to install in another PC with less power (only 128 MB of RAM and Celeron 1.0). OK, I installed my new and proud MDK 10.1 and... PAIN! worked slow, freezed, crashed, etc. The reality hurts me, because I loved my MDK, but the reallity is that is not the best in performance.
First point: is i586 optimized and my old celeron, like the most of the new PCs, is a i686 arch.
Second point: MDK loads by default a high number of services.
Third point: I dont know how but MDK use 122 MB of my RAM at the start! I only have 6 MB to work. This is not good!
OK I tried many distros... and the result: Slackware hits over any one!!! Is not easy but use only 77 MB of my RAM at start, loads only the services needed, and flies with KDE.
This is the tru... the people leaves MDK because it cant give them all the best advantages of linux: to be powerfull.
IC
First point: is i586 optimized and my old celeron, like the most of the new PCs, is a i686 arch.
Second point: MDK loads by default a high number of services.
Third point: I dont know how but MDK use 122 MB of my RAM at the start! I only have 6 MB to work. This is not good!
OK I tried many distros... and the result: Slackware hits over any one!!! Is not easy but use only 77 MB of my RAM at start, loads only the services needed, and flies with KDE.
This is the tru... the people leaves MDK because it cant give them all the best advantages of linux: to be powerfull.
IC
the top of the top!
Posted by: Anonymous Coward on February 11, 2005 11:43 PMMay they live long and prosper \\//_
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