Learn about Linux
Download Linux
Get Linux helpSpecial Offers
Feature: Linux
My desktop OS: Kanotix
By Andrei Raevsky
on
March 14, 2006 (8:00:00 AM)
Share
Print
Comments
I expect both ease of use and advanced capabilities in any GNU/Linux distro. I am therefore hard to please when using a live CD-based distro, which is necessarily limited to about 2GB of software compressed onto a 700MB CD. I have tested more than a dozen live CD distros. Of all of them, Kanotix comes closest to being the "perfect distro."
Simply put, Kanotix is Knoppix on steroids -- lots of steroids:
1) Hardware recognition: The creator of Kanotix, Jörg Schirottke (a.k.a. Kano), based his distribution on the already excellent Knoppix, but he improved the hardware recognition with his own scripts, which are widely regarded as the most capable hardware recognition scripts currently on any distro.
2) Unionfs: Kanotix was one of the first distros to offer Unionfs, which makes it possible to install more applications even while running in the live CD mode (rather than after a hard drive install). Unionfs merges a filesystem in the RAM with the read-only filesystem available on the CD without ever touching a hard disk. Of course, as with any modern live CD, Kanotix offers the capability to create a persistent home directory and to save all settings (network, printer, desktop files, etc.).
3) Klik: Kanotix is one of very few distros that preinstalls klik, a utility that makes it easy to install applications with one click from within a browser (a newbie's dream come true).
4) Connectivity: Kanotix offers a choice of two firewalls, the Kanotix firewall and Firestarter (both are easy to use and intuitive), and several servers (NX, SSH, terminal server, Samba). Connectivity with GPRS, Bluetooth, DSL, ISDN, Wi-Fi, and modem are all included.
5) One CD for everything: While Knoppix was designed to run primarily in live CD mode, Kanotix is capable of installing Debian-Sid. Not only that, but the Kanotix live CD can even be used to update a previously installed Kanotix/Debian hard drive distribution. Unlike other distros, Kanotix does not have different versions for live CD and hard drive installs.
6) GUI and CLI: Kanotix was specifically designed to run on modern (i586 and above) hardware, but it can also run on older hardware. There are plenty of CLI tools (pppconfig/pppstatus, ogg123/mpg321, lynx, and many others) that make it possible to run Kanotix without X, by using the "Kanotix 2" cheat code.
7) Desktop: Kanotix includes the full OpenOffice.org suite (with the exception of Base), Scribus, the GIMP, Qcad, XMMS, Audacity, VLC, and many others. Kanotix is based on KDE and features amaroK, Konqueror, Kaffeine, K3b, and the rest of the huge suite of KDE tools, with the notable exception of KDE's KOffice suite (which is available in the Kanotix-Lite version). Although Konqueror is the default browser, Firefox is also available.
8) Development: Kanotix includes a plethora of high-quality applications such as Pycrust and Pyshell (for Python 2.3).
9) Rescue: Kanotix makes for a fantastic rescue and data recovery tool. With Kanotix one can create, resize, or delete partitions with QTparted, write to NTFS with the new captive NTFS driver capability, look for a rootkit with chkrootkit, change the admin password on a Windows XP machine with chntpw, check and repair a corrupted filesystem with, in the case of a ReiserFS, reiserfsck, and many more CLI apps.
To go over all of Kanotix's 1,289 packages would take too much time; it's easier to mention what is missing. Unlike many distros, Kanotix has only one game (SuperTux). A number of applications, such as OpenOffice.org, lack full documentation. Databases aren't included; OpenOffice.org Base, PostreSQL, and MySQL aren't on the CD, though they all can be downloaded easily.
Lastly, while Kanotix itself is GPLed, it comes with some proprietary applications, such as Skype. Free software purists might be offended by that.
Beyond the Kanotix CD, there is a lively and active community. One click on the appropriate icon on the desktop connects you to the Kanotix IRC channel (where Jörg Schirottke often appears personally under the handle "Kano"). The Kanotix Web site has good documentation, including a user's manual in PDF format and a forum where knowledgeable contributors answer questions, usually with 24 hours.
The perfect compromise?
Any live CD is an exercise in compromises, and this is also true for Kanotix. Still, Jörg Schirottke has achieved a near-perfect balance of power tools and newbie compatibility. Currently, no other live CD offers a "no questions asked," lightening-fast boot up with almost flawless hardware recognition, an incredibly easy hard drive install of Debian-Sid (giving access to 15,000+ packages), the capability to extend a live CD with the Unionfs/klik combination, and the capability to upgrade the hard drive install with each new release of a live CD.
Kanotix is both "Knoppix on steroids" and "Debian for newbies," combined into one slick package with plenty of eye candy. Best of all, it "just works."
What desktop OS do you use every day? Write an article of less than 1,000 words telling us what you use and why. If we publish it, we'll pay you $100. (Send us a query first to be sure we haven't already published a story on your favorite OS or have one in hand.) In recent weeks, we've covered SimplyMEPIS, Xandros, Mac OS X, Fedora Core 3, Ubuntu, White Box Enterprise Linux, Mandriva PowerPack 2006, Slackware, SUSE, and GRML.
Comments
on My desktop OS: KanotixNote: Comments are owned by the poster. We are not responsible for their content.
You are right - Emacs is not on the live-CD, probably due to size constraints. But you can get it with one single click with the klik utility. Or any of the following editors:
abiword | WYSIWYG word processor based on GTK2
aee | An easy to use screen-based editor
august | Tcl/Tk HTML editor
conglomerate | userfriendly XML editor
cssed | graphical CSS editor
ed | The classic unix line editor
ee | An "easy editor" for novices and compuphobics
elvis | powerful clone of the vi/ex text editor (with X11 support)
emacs21 | The GNU Emacs editor
fte-xwindow | Text editor for X Window System with I18N support. (for programmers)
gnotepad+ | Graphical text and HTML editor
hexedit | view and edit files in hexadecimal or in ASCII
jed | editor for programmers (textmode version)
jove | Jonathan's Own Version of Emacs - a compact, powerful editor
kate | advanced text editor for KDE
kedit | basic text editor for KDE
kimagemapeditor | HTML image map editor for KDE
kxmleditor | XML Editor for KDE
le | Text Editor with block and binary operations
leafpad | GTK+ based simple text editor
ledit | line editor for interactive programs
lyx | High Level Word Processor
lyx-qt | High Level Word Processor - Qt frontend
lyx-xforms | High Level Word Processor - XForms frontend
manedit | A GTK+-based Enhanced ManPage Editor and -Viewer
ne | Nice Editor, an easy-to-use and powerful editor
nedit | A powerful, customizable, Motif based text editor
qemacs | Small emacs clone editor with HTML and DocBook editing support
sam | the plan9 text editor -- ed with a gui and multi-file editing
scite | Lightweight GTK-based Programming Editor
sql-editor | editor of SQL databases, with 'join' capability
ted | graphical RTF (Rich Text Format) editor, stable lesstif version
vim-full | Vi IMproved - enhanced vi editor - full fledged version
vim-gnome | Vi IMproved - enhanced vi editor - with GNOME2 GUI
vim-gtk | Vi IMproved - enhanced vi editor - with GTK2 GUI
vim-lesstif | Vi IMproved - enhanced vi editor - with LessTif GUI
vim-perl | Vi IMproved - enhanced vi editor - with Perl support
vim-python | Vi IMproved - enhanced vi editor - with Python support
vim-tcl | Vi IMproved - enhanced vi editor - with TCL support
wily | A work-alike of the Acme programming environment for Plan 9
xed | The standard text editor, for X
xemacs21 | highly customizable text editor
xemacs21-nomule | highly customizable text editor -- Non-mule binary
xjed | editor for programmers (x11 version)
xjove | X11-Frontend for jove - a compact, powerful editor
xwpe | Programming environment and editor for console and X11
yudit | Unicode text editor (arch-dependent binaries)
Kanotix rocks, and Kanotix "rulz"!
abiword | WYSIWYG word processor based on GTK2
aee | An easy to use screen-based editor
august | Tcl/Tk HTML editor
conglomerate | userfriendly XML editor
cssed | graphical CSS editor
ed | The classic unix line editor
ee | An "easy editor" for novices and compuphobics
elvis | powerful clone of the vi/ex text editor (with X11 support)
emacs21 | The GNU Emacs editor
fte-xwindow | Text editor for X Window System with I18N support. (for programmers)
gnotepad+ | Graphical text and HTML editor
hexedit | view and edit files in hexadecimal or in ASCII
jed | editor for programmers (textmode version)
jove | Jonathan's Own Version of Emacs - a compact, powerful editor
kate | advanced text editor for KDE
kedit | basic text editor for KDE
kimagemapeditor | HTML image map editor for KDE
kxmleditor | XML Editor for KDE
le | Text Editor with block and binary operations
leafpad | GTK+ based simple text editor
ledit | line editor for interactive programs
lyx | High Level Word Processor
lyx-qt | High Level Word Processor - Qt frontend
lyx-xforms | High Level Word Processor - XForms frontend
manedit | A GTK+-based Enhanced ManPage Editor and -Viewer
ne | Nice Editor, an easy-to-use and powerful editor
nedit | A powerful, customizable, Motif based text editor
qemacs | Small emacs clone editor with HTML and DocBook editing support
sam | the plan9 text editor -- ed with a gui and multi-file editing
scite | Lightweight GTK-based Programming Editor
sql-editor | editor of SQL databases, with 'join' capability
ted | graphical RTF (Rich Text Format) editor, stable lesstif version
vim-full | Vi IMproved - enhanced vi editor - full fledged version
vim-gnome | Vi IMproved - enhanced vi editor - with GNOME2 GUI
vim-gtk | Vi IMproved - enhanced vi editor - with GTK2 GUI
vim-lesstif | Vi IMproved - enhanced vi editor - with LessTif GUI
vim-perl | Vi IMproved - enhanced vi editor - with Perl support
vim-python | Vi IMproved - enhanced vi editor - with Python support
vim-tcl | Vi IMproved - enhanced vi editor - with TCL support
wily | A work-alike of the Acme programming environment for Plan 9
xed | The standard text editor, for X
xemacs21 | highly customizable text editor
xemacs21-nomule | highly customizable text editor -- Non-mule binary
xjed | editor for programmers (x11 version)
xjove | X11-Frontend for jove - a compact, powerful editor
xwpe | Programming environment and editor for console and X11
yudit | Unicode text editor (arch-dependent binaries)
Kanotix rocks, and Kanotix "rulz"!
"But you can get it with one single click with the klik utility."
Well, you can, but it doesn't work. Not for me anyway. I booted up Kanotix 2005-4, used klik to get emacs21, waited for it to download and then... nothing, it wouldn't launch. I verified I could use klik to get other software successfully, and I tried emacs a second time. Nothing. Back to Knoppix.
Well, you can, but it doesn't work. Not for me anyway. I booted up Kanotix 2005-4, used klik to get emacs21, waited for it to download and then... nothing, it wouldn't launch. I verified I could use klik to get other software successfully, and I tried emacs a second time. Nothing. Back to Knoppix.
set US-English once, at boot time. Then save your config somewhere (HD, floppy, flash, etc.) "save KANOTIX configuration" in the Kanotix menu. And everything will be in US-English.
Enjoy!
Enjoy!
I've been trying various linux distributions over the years, waiting for one that just felt right. And that really worked. And that was fast, with support for all the latest and greatest features. And that's not dependent on a commercial product like SUSE or Redhat based distros.
I had some requirements I'd developed after seeing commercial distro after distro fail or vanish, and smaller non-commercial distros too.
First is direct connection to a major free open source distribution. This basically means it's either debian, slackware, or gentoo derived.
Not forked in anyway, even subtly, like ubuntu.
Everything needed to work, although I'm happy spending time to achieve that 'everything works', some stuff takes more work than other stuff. But I need to feel that the time I spend learning how to get eveyrthing the way I want it is not wasted or lost. So far debian/kanotix has passed this test with flying colors.
Kanotix is the first distro I've used that met every test. The 2005-4 release took care of some small issues that had kept me from switching permanently to it.
Kano is an excellent developer, everything that was too hard for me to deal with on straight debian is now fairly easy.
Kanotix is both an excellent standalone distribution, as well as a great halfway point to full debian.
Finally, free software that really delivers. I'm not a newbie, but I'm not a linux guru either, and that's I think the exact group that might want to check out kanotix for themselves. Although most users will find that kanotix installs with almost no issues, out of the box debian, no problems, but with easy access to some non-free stuff like nvidia and radeon driver installtion.
This is easily the best distro for my needs I've ever used. That's not taking anything away from the great work of slackware or gentoo distros, but if you want debian, check out kanotix.
I now have basically switched completey from windows. And I'm running the latest sid unstable with the latest kernel.
Thanks to the kanotix team for that, they continue to do fantastic work.
Remember, kanotix is currently a german focused distro, but all the developers have no problems with english, so that's not an issue.
I had some requirements I'd developed after seeing commercial distro after distro fail or vanish, and smaller non-commercial distros too.
First is direct connection to a major free open source distribution. This basically means it's either debian, slackware, or gentoo derived.
Not forked in anyway, even subtly, like ubuntu.
Everything needed to work, although I'm happy spending time to achieve that 'everything works', some stuff takes more work than other stuff. But I need to feel that the time I spend learning how to get eveyrthing the way I want it is not wasted or lost. So far debian/kanotix has passed this test with flying colors.
Kanotix is the first distro I've used that met every test. The 2005-4 release took care of some small issues that had kept me from switching permanently to it.
Kano is an excellent developer, everything that was too hard for me to deal with on straight debian is now fairly easy.
Kanotix is both an excellent standalone distribution, as well as a great halfway point to full debian.
Finally, free software that really delivers. I'm not a newbie, but I'm not a linux guru either, and that's I think the exact group that might want to check out kanotix for themselves. Although most users will find that kanotix installs with almost no issues, out of the box debian, no problems, but with easy access to some non-free stuff like nvidia and radeon driver installtion.
This is easily the best distro for my needs I've ever used. That's not taking anything away from the great work of slackware or gentoo distros, but if you want debian, check out kanotix.
I now have basically switched completey from windows. And I'm running the latest sid unstable with the latest kernel.
Thanks to the kanotix team for that, they continue to do fantastic work.
Remember, kanotix is currently a german focused distro, but all the developers have no problems with english, so that's not an issue.
This review reads a little more like a press release. Since it borrows a buzzword or two from my own recent article (Newsforge, March 07, 2006), a response is in order.
I carefully evaluated Knoppix and Kanotix for "newbie" use before discovering, evaluating, and selecting GRML Linux. In fact I evaluated many distros, but paid extra special attention to the famous "hardware detection" distros.
Knoppix and Kanotix are fantastic, but not flawless or near-perfect. Kanotix goes somewhat beyond Knoppix, yes. I studied their scripts intensively and tested several configurations of both. Kanotix has many familiar "gotchas" for hard drive and flash fob use, just like Knoppix. (P.S. UNIONFS is not always pleasant, nor newbie-friendly.)
For hardware recognition, I give first prize to GRML. I don't know about "widely regarded," but GRML is less well known than Kanotix, so no surprise. You can imagine that a Linux for sysadmins (GRML) would want to detect hardware. GRML even does RAID.
GRML is more Debian (i.e. Linx standards base) compliant. So the "Debian for newbies" prize is up for grabs. GRML does not market itself to newbies, though. That's why some other Linux distributor could take the ball and run with it, and another reason I post here: to encourage just that.
BeatriX, for example, does target newbies. It married Knoppix to Ubuntu, but development stalled in recent years. There are non-technical reasons for that but also technical ones. I wrote BeatriX suggesting they migrate away from Knoppix foundations to GRML foundations to make their work much easier.
BeatriX deserves credit for being one of the few distros to divide and conquer, leveraging separate parent distros to handle boot/kernel issues and desktop issues. GRML gets credit, too, for staying focused. Most distros try to do both boot/kernel development and desktop development. Desktop Linux will take off when more projects leverage each other.
If you love KDE and live CDs, then Kanotix is clearly for you. If you need more standard Linux with additional user mobility possibilities, try GRML with any package list and desktop you want. GRML already has sysadmin, cryptoloop, rescue, and backup stuff. Just add water, as the saying goes. As in cooking, it's much easier to add ingredients than remove them.
This note is not meant to pick a fight. I spent many painful days doing evaluations and sincerely believe others could benefit from my experience. Before doing my detailed evals, I had no particular axe to grind regarding any distribution, and had not even heard of GRML. In fact Kanotix was actually one of my top contenders. In other words, I tried hard to make Kanotix work for us. Please forgive me if I just state an intention here not to respond to further replies, though I will read them.
Kanotix is a fantastic piece of work for the usage scenarios that it envisions. However the people who can handle them well should not be considered "newbies." I am responding here only to address the buzzwords and encourage developers to think about GRML as a foundation for new and novel desktop Linux concepts pertaining to "newbies" and "just works" distributions, as well as in-house desktop customization needs.
Mark
I carefully evaluated Knoppix and Kanotix for "newbie" use before discovering, evaluating, and selecting GRML Linux. In fact I evaluated many distros, but paid extra special attention to the famous "hardware detection" distros.
Knoppix and Kanotix are fantastic, but not flawless or near-perfect. Kanotix goes somewhat beyond Knoppix, yes. I studied their scripts intensively and tested several configurations of both. Kanotix has many familiar "gotchas" for hard drive and flash fob use, just like Knoppix. (P.S. UNIONFS is not always pleasant, nor newbie-friendly.)
For hardware recognition, I give first prize to GRML. I don't know about "widely regarded," but GRML is less well known than Kanotix, so no surprise. You can imagine that a Linux for sysadmins (GRML) would want to detect hardware. GRML even does RAID.
GRML is more Debian (i.e. Linx standards base) compliant. So the "Debian for newbies" prize is up for grabs. GRML does not market itself to newbies, though. That's why some other Linux distributor could take the ball and run with it, and another reason I post here: to encourage just that.
BeatriX, for example, does target newbies. It married Knoppix to Ubuntu, but development stalled in recent years. There are non-technical reasons for that but also technical ones. I wrote BeatriX suggesting they migrate away from Knoppix foundations to GRML foundations to make their work much easier.
BeatriX deserves credit for being one of the few distros to divide and conquer, leveraging separate parent distros to handle boot/kernel issues and desktop issues. GRML gets credit, too, for staying focused. Most distros try to do both boot/kernel development and desktop development. Desktop Linux will take off when more projects leverage each other.
If you love KDE and live CDs, then Kanotix is clearly for you. If you need more standard Linux with additional user mobility possibilities, try GRML with any package list and desktop you want. GRML already has sysadmin, cryptoloop, rescue, and backup stuff. Just add water, as the saying goes. As in cooking, it's much easier to add ingredients than remove them.
This note is not meant to pick a fight. I spent many painful days doing evaluations and sincerely believe others could benefit from my experience. Before doing my detailed evals, I had no particular axe to grind regarding any distribution, and had not even heard of GRML. In fact Kanotix was actually one of my top contenders. In other words, I tried hard to make Kanotix work for us. Please forgive me if I just state an intention here not to respond to further replies, though I will read them.
Kanotix is a fantastic piece of work for the usage scenarios that it envisions. However the people who can handle them well should not be considered "newbies." I am responding here only to address the buzzwords and encourage developers to think about GRML as a foundation for new and novel desktop Linux concepts pertaining to "newbies" and "just works" distributions, as well as in-house desktop customization needs.
Mark
This note is not meant to pick a fight. I spent many painful days doing evaluations and sincerely believe others could benefit from my experience
you are just venting your frustration at the fact that others do *not* feel like your "experience" benefits them. your previous NF article did obviously not convince everybody. Less buzz, more fizz, or more FUD?!
Kanotix is a fantastic piece of work for the usage scenarios that it envisions. However the people who can handle them well should not be considered "newbies.
Right. Features like Klik are for power-users and sysadmins also. (rolleyes & sigh...)
you are just venting your frustration at the fact that others do *not* feel like your "experience" benefits them. your previous NF article did obviously not convince everybody. Less buzz, more fizz, or more FUD?!
Kanotix is a fantastic piece of work for the usage scenarios that it envisions. However the people who can handle them well should not be considered "newbies.
Right. Features like Klik are for power-users and sysadmins also. (rolleyes & sigh...)
I spent many painful days doing evaluations
I wish I could say that I feel your pain. Really. But I do not. I *enjoy* doing distro evaluations. If doing distro evaluations is painful to you, you might want to consider doing something else, no?
I wish I could say that I feel your pain. Really. But I do not. I *enjoy* doing distro evaluations. If doing distro evaluations is painful to you, you might want to consider doing something else, no?
Mark, as was noted above, kanotix does not push itself primarily to newbies.
Many newbies will find that they will have a very good exprience with it, but it's not particularly newbie friendly.
It's not by any means newbie unfriendly however, it's just not newbie friendly. As some of the developers say, their goal is not to create another ubuntu [well, those are my words, not theirs, but I think they'd agree], but rather to create a very good cutting edge linux distro, based on debian sid, that 'just works'.
They are successful in this goal.
While Kanotix works very well as a livecd, that's not its primary purpose. Why waste such a good distro by just booting the cd? Install it to your hard drive, and you'll see how good it is.
Personally, I'm not a newbie, and I don't think kanotix is the best choice for most newbies. It depends on the newbie, if they are very tech savy to begin with and just don't happen to know GNU/Linux, and can read and follow directions, they should have little or no problems.
Likewise, if a newbie can click the 'install' link, and follow some simple directions, they will probably end up with a very good linux running in about 30 or 40 minutes. After installing nvidia or radeon drivers, if required, their box will be ready.
Kanotix is all about the scripts that the team generates, mostly kano. It's those scripts that make debian more accessible to newer but technically competent users.
Focusing on newbie friendliness has little or nothing to do with the real goals of kanotix from what I can see.
Many newbies will find that they will have a very good exprience with it, but it's not particularly newbie friendly.
It's not by any means newbie unfriendly however, it's just not newbie friendly. As some of the developers say, their goal is not to create another ubuntu [well, those are my words, not theirs, but I think they'd agree], but rather to create a very good cutting edge linux distro, based on debian sid, that 'just works'.
They are successful in this goal.
While Kanotix works very well as a livecd, that's not its primary purpose. Why waste such a good distro by just booting the cd? Install it to your hard drive, and you'll see how good it is.
Personally, I'm not a newbie, and I don't think kanotix is the best choice for most newbies. It depends on the newbie, if they are very tech savy to begin with and just don't happen to know GNU/Linux, and can read and follow directions, they should have little or no problems.
Likewise, if a newbie can click the 'install' link, and follow some simple directions, they will probably end up with a very good linux running in about 30 or 40 minutes. After installing nvidia or radeon drivers, if required, their box will be ready.
Kanotix is all about the scripts that the team generates, mostly kano. It's those scripts that make debian more accessible to newer but technically competent users.
Focusing on newbie friendliness has little or nothing to do with the real goals of kanotix from what I can see.
I used to follow Beatrix, that was a fine, although very limited, distro. Definitely the fastest full featured desktop I've ever tried.
However, don't hold your breath waiting for it to resurface, too much happened in the meantime to make that a likely event.
The simple fact that Mark compares Beatrix to Kanotix is revealing however, there is no comparison, they are two totally different distros, with different target audiences.
I like both, in fact, it's only recently I sadly gave up on Beatrix, but I never made the mistake of confusing what Beatrix does with what Kanotix does.
In my opinion, this author seriously undermines his credibility by trying to compare two unrelated products in this way. Beatrix was truly fully aimed at newbies, and was quite successful in its goals until its unfortunate problems.
Kanotix is likewise quite successful in its goals.
However, don't hold your breath waiting for it to resurface, too much happened in the meantime to make that a likely event.
The simple fact that Mark compares Beatrix to Kanotix is revealing however, there is no comparison, they are two totally different distros, with different target audiences.
I like both, in fact, it's only recently I sadly gave up on Beatrix, but I never made the mistake of confusing what Beatrix does with what Kanotix does.
In my opinion, this author seriously undermines his credibility by trying to compare two unrelated products in this way. Beatrix was truly fully aimed at newbies, and was quite successful in its goals until its unfortunate problems.
Kanotix is likewise quite successful in its goals.
First
This note is not meant to pick a fight
Then
* Less buzz more fizz
* This review reads a little more like a press release
*GRML is more Debian (i.e. Linx standards base) compliant
* I just state an intention here not to respond to further replies
[BTW - you can bet that the last one is baloney]
This note is not meant to pick a fight
Then
* Less buzz more fizz
* This review reads a little more like a press release
*GRML is more Debian (i.e. Linx standards base) compliant
* I just state an intention here not to respond to further replies
[BTW - you can bet that the last one is baloney]
sure - it ships with Fluxbox. A newbie's dream...
I'll bypass the flamethrowers, trolltalkers, fanboys, and teenage psychologists. Addressing the semi-serious:
If Kanotix doesn't target newbies, the article does. It starts with "ease of use," and ends with "newbie compatibility." If we agree that Kanotix is not suitable for a "newbie," then we agree that the article is wrong. That's all I meant by less buzz(words), more fizz (capability).
"GRML for newbies" was never an argument; try "GRML for sysadmins supporting newbies" or "GRML as foundation layer for future newbie distros." I was not aware that Linux newbies read Newsforge. If I wanted newbies to encounter GMRL, I would write for Parade Magazine. It's precisely because GRML is so good at hiding from end users that I like it.
If a GRML sysadmin can type "apt-get install $DESKTOP" then his users have all the ease of use of $DESKTOP -- including Klik for instance. Send them directly to $DESKTOP at boot. GRML/Debian becomes background like BSD Unix on Mac. Under Knoppix/Kanotix, by contrast, CD-related stuff is hard to hide from users in the same way.
About pain. Typing grml2hd and apt-get was, I confess, easier than debugging Knoppix/Kanotix install scripts that broke on me. Yes, I Googled for tips; yes, I read the FAQs; I did much more than that, I parsed through the scripts myself. My conclusion was that Knoppix and Kanotix are basically wrong for anything but a CD.
They are tops among live CDs. Yes, they are successful live CDs. We are all thankful. If you like live CDs and the KDE desk environment, use Kanotix. You will not be disappointed.
It's just that discussion of hard drives in this very curt review seriously misleads. The article puts Kanotix ahead of Knoppix in this regard, but it's a difference of small degree, almost grasping at straws. They don't belong on a hard drive at all until serious HD-related improvements are made. That is my professional opinion after careful (and yes painful) evaluations.
Not to say that GRML scripts are perfect. I've had debates with GRML about them (and nVidia). But I don't think scripts are so much the problem as basic design factors. It's hard to compensate for those in any kind of script.
People who view evaluation work as endless fun are welcome to labor in the office next to mine. Here's the deal: users state requirements, the boss assigns a budget and schedule, you meet requirements within budget and on schedule leaving users happy. Yes indeed, it's endless fun. I'll be glad to cash your paycheck and you can take a smile home in its place.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;-)
Mark
If Kanotix doesn't target newbies, the article does. It starts with "ease of use," and ends with "newbie compatibility." If we agree that Kanotix is not suitable for a "newbie," then we agree that the article is wrong. That's all I meant by less buzz(words), more fizz (capability).
"GRML for newbies" was never an argument; try "GRML for sysadmins supporting newbies" or "GRML as foundation layer for future newbie distros." I was not aware that Linux newbies read Newsforge. If I wanted newbies to encounter GMRL, I would write for Parade Magazine. It's precisely because GRML is so good at hiding from end users that I like it.
If a GRML sysadmin can type "apt-get install $DESKTOP" then his users have all the ease of use of $DESKTOP -- including Klik for instance. Send them directly to $DESKTOP at boot. GRML/Debian becomes background like BSD Unix on Mac. Under Knoppix/Kanotix, by contrast, CD-related stuff is hard to hide from users in the same way.
About pain. Typing grml2hd and apt-get was, I confess, easier than debugging Knoppix/Kanotix install scripts that broke on me. Yes, I Googled for tips; yes, I read the FAQs; I did much more than that, I parsed through the scripts myself. My conclusion was that Knoppix and Kanotix are basically wrong for anything but a CD.
They are tops among live CDs. Yes, they are successful live CDs. We are all thankful. If you like live CDs and the KDE desk environment, use Kanotix. You will not be disappointed.
It's just that discussion of hard drives in this very curt review seriously misleads. The article puts Kanotix ahead of Knoppix in this regard, but it's a difference of small degree, almost grasping at straws. They don't belong on a hard drive at all until serious HD-related improvements are made. That is my professional opinion after careful (and yes painful) evaluations.
Not to say that GRML scripts are perfect. I've had debates with GRML about them (and nVidia). But I don't think scripts are so much the problem as basic design factors. It's hard to compensate for those in any kind of script.
People who view evaluation work as endless fun are welcome to labor in the office next to mine. Here's the deal: users state requirements, the boss assigns a budget and schedule, you meet requirements within budget and on schedule leaving users happy. Yes indeed, it's endless fun. I'll be glad to cash your paycheck and you can take a smile home in its place.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;-)
Mark
Clearly no distro can make everyone happy. That's not a mystery. However, since this distro makes people who discover it happy pretty much every day, I'd say you're in a distinct minority in terms of the problems you encountered.
However, your comments in the above posting don't do you much credit. I don't know if you're just having a bad day, or what.
Since kanotix is essentially debian sid with some very small modifications, I'll assume you simply don't like debian sid. Or something. I actually can't really make much sense out of this last comment. I haven't seen anyone have any problems with the scripts, or with hard drive installs, as a rule. Obviously, some hardware simply won't work. I've had one failed install, but that's the same for pretty much any distro I've ever tried, so nothing unique there.
The reviewer is pretty much right though, if you want debian in as friendly a package as you can get at the moment, this is your best bet. Will it work for everyone? Probably not. Does any distro work for everyone? Probably not.
Anyway, for those readers other than Mark, give Kanotix a look, it's an excellent hard drive distro despite what he says, one of the best, if not the best, I've ever tried. I only use the livecd to test for hardware compatibility before installing, and the occasional rescue operation.
But each to his own. I'll probably check out GRML for its hardware recognition, good rescue cds are valuable no matter what, as long as a distro is either debian or debian based I'm always interested in checking it out.
It's unfortunate that you seem to have missed the overall gist of this article, and that you still are missing it, but that's life, not much we can do about that.
However, your comments in the above posting don't do you much credit. I don't know if you're just having a bad day, or what.
Since kanotix is essentially debian sid with some very small modifications, I'll assume you simply don't like debian sid. Or something. I actually can't really make much sense out of this last comment. I haven't seen anyone have any problems with the scripts, or with hard drive installs, as a rule. Obviously, some hardware simply won't work. I've had one failed install, but that's the same for pretty much any distro I've ever tried, so nothing unique there.
The reviewer is pretty much right though, if you want debian in as friendly a package as you can get at the moment, this is your best bet. Will it work for everyone? Probably not. Does any distro work for everyone? Probably not.
Anyway, for those readers other than Mark, give Kanotix a look, it's an excellent hard drive distro despite what he says, one of the best, if not the best, I've ever tried. I only use the livecd to test for hardware compatibility before installing, and the occasional rescue operation.
But each to his own. I'll probably check out GRML for its hardware recognition, good rescue cds are valuable no matter what, as long as a distro is either debian or debian based I'm always interested in checking it out.
It's unfortunate that you seem to have missed the overall gist of this article, and that you still are missing it, but that's life, not much we can do about that.
This type of "my distro is better than yours" rant - which shows up whenever any distro is reviewed - is very similar to the "my brother is bigger than yours" or even "my penis is bigger than yours" kind of claims made by kids in their early teen years: a sure sign of self-doubt and inadequacy.
More to the point: the review did *not* center on newbies - it only mentioned that Kanotix was an easy way for a newbie to get Debian on a HD.
More to the point: the review did *not* center on newbies - it only mentioned that Kanotix was an easy way for a newbie to get Debian on a HD.
I think that you are missing the point of Kanotix by labeling it "newbie friendly" or "not newbie friendly". Who cares either way? I LOVE kanotix, recently switching from my previous favorite of kubuntu to a hard drive install of kanotix. I am by no means a newbie, just someone who wanted something stable and easy to configure on my laptop, since I have way less time to tinker than I use to. I've done the slack install. I've done the Gentoo install. I've done the LFS scene, and it was great, I learned a ton about Linux. But in the end, I want something on my work machine that works out of the box, is easy to update, and requires a minimum of tweaking. Kanotix is it. Kano and the developers set out to make a distro that worked great as a Live CD (neccesitating the good hardware detection), and then worked as a hard drive install too (as Knoppix worked POORLY at best for HD install). They have accomplished those goals very, very well (by general community consensus, not just my opinion). Everyone has a favorite distro, and when it comes to tweaking and prodding and playing, mine is Slack. But when it comes to just working, it's Kanotix, without a doubt.
Number 1 live cd currently, but:
For instance the network interfaces are lan0,lan1 etc. and in my pure debian, they are eth0,eth1 etc. So I had hard time configuring firewall when I tried to use settings from my debian install.
I hate the "Initiating startup sequence" since my laptops mute button does not work yet. I just have to console boot first, then use alsamixer to mute, then start kde..
I hope the hardware recognition improves so that laptop keyboards with hotkeys will be recognized properly
For instance the network interfaces are lan0,lan1 etc. and in my pure debian, they are eth0,eth1 etc. So I had hard time configuring firewall when I tried to use settings from my debian install.
I hate the "Initiating startup sequence" since my laptops mute button does not work yet. I just have to console boot first, then use alsamixer to mute, then start kde..
I hope the hardware recognition improves so that laptop keyboards with hotkeys will be recognized properly
Actually, this seemingly infantile Star Treck -like "Initiating startup sequence" serves an important purpose: to check a soundcard on bootup. I think that this feature should be kept, or at least available as a cheatcode.
Since 2005-04 you can use
vol=0
as cheatcode to mute sound as there is no way to stop the detection of soundcards when udev is active. Of course you can specify any value between 0 and 100 as percentage.
vol=0
as cheatcode to mute sound as there is no way to stop the detection of soundcards when udev is active. Of course you can specify any value between 0 and 100 as percentage.
Are Kanotix cheatcodes available somewhere on the live-CD so they can be viewed in, say, Windows or do you have to get them off somewhere on the Internet?
is vol=0 a Kanotix-specific cheat code (something existing only on 2005-04+) or is this a Knoppix cheatcode?
The vol=0 is not listed in the official Kanotix manual's cheatcodes appendix <a href="http://linux.kopporama.de/en/km_appendix_b.html" title="kopporama.de">http://linux.kopporama.de/en/km_appendix_b.html</a kopporama.de>
Might this cheatcode be a Knoppix only thing?
Might this cheatcode be a Knoppix only thing?
I've used Kanotix for a year and think it's superb. I teach IT at a local community college and would recommend it for any user level. If there's any knock on Kanotix, it's that Kano isn't an artist. (He should hire the person who creates the wallpaper for PCLinuxOS.) Rather, he's a brillant young computer engineer with some very smart friends (stefan, kel, andy, et al). This distro is his passion and it shows. The newest release, 2006 CeBIT RC3, is sweet.
Michael
Michael
I have been on the IRC channel for years off and on. Kano is perhaps one of the nicest and most helpful people I have found on IRC for Linux Support.
He has even helped many with problems using even other Distros. Kano always tries to answer any and all questions. I do not know how he does this with out getting fustrated.
One day on channel there was 30+ people and about 20 of which all hitting him with different questions and some how he got through each one and almost 100% resolved~!
He was concentrating on all situations and problems and was bouncing back and forward.
Just sitting in the IRC channel you get the sense that this guy is driven by satisfaction of knowing he is helping people.
Kano also has a excellent memory I have been away from the channel for a while yet when ever I get on there he always says hello and how is the LUG going to me.
I honestly feel if there was a "Samaritan of Open Source" award KANO would get it hands down!
If anyone has not tried KANOTIX the I sugguest you do. It rocks and only gets better from there.
In my final words "Thanks KANO"
Mr.E
He has even helped many with problems using even other Distros. Kano always tries to answer any and all questions. I do not know how he does this with out getting fustrated.
One day on channel there was 30+ people and about 20 of which all hitting him with different questions and some how he got through each one and almost 100% resolved~!
He was concentrating on all situations and problems and was bouncing back and forward.
Just sitting in the IRC channel you get the sense that this guy is driven by satisfaction of knowing he is helping people.
Kano also has a excellent memory I have been away from the channel for a while yet when ever I get on there he always says hello and how is the LUG going to me.
I honestly feel if there was a "Samaritan of Open Source" award KANO would get it hands down!
If anyone has not tried KANOTIX the I sugguest you do. It rocks and only gets better from there.
In my final words "Thanks KANO"
Mr.E
Absolutely! I have gone to the Kanotix IRC a couple of times and each time Kano answered (in English) very kindly and patiently while all the while being bombarded by other questions and comments.
Kano sets a FANTASTIC of community support and he has my deepest respect and sincere thanks!
VS
Kano sets a FANTASTIC of community support and he has my deepest respect and sincere thanks!
VS
[n/t]
you are welcome - I am glad you enjoyed it!
I have found the Kanotix releases this year (the one around the new year and this one) to be significant improvements over earlier releases, for the simple reason that the hard disk installer is now quite simple and it already works well, even if it is not completely tested in all respects. Kanotix runs smoothly as a Live CD and also installs to hard disk in well under an hour (44 minutes on my five year OLD hardware.
Kanotix and SimplyMEPIS are two of my favorite easy to install Live CD based systems. Both of them have two areas that could be improved - cleaning up and better organizing the default Debian menus, extending and improving the very functional, but overly busy desktop menus, and improving the desktop appearance and overall usability. Those few changes in the two major areas would vault these two distributions above even the much larger major players. Even as things stand, I rate these distros near the top of the list.
My criticisms are minor, my favor toward Kanotix is high, and I have it on one of my desktop partitions, and I frequently test out new releases, evidence of my personal interest in this distribution. Overall, recommended.
Kanotix and SimplyMEPIS are two of my favorite easy to install Live CD based systems. Both of them have two areas that could be improved - cleaning up and better organizing the default Debian menus, extending and improving the very functional, but overly busy desktop menus, and improving the desktop appearance and overall usability. Those few changes in the two major areas would vault these two distributions above even the much larger major players. Even as things stand, I rate these distros near the top of the list.
My criticisms are minor, my favor toward Kanotix is high, and I have it on one of my desktop partitions, and I frequently test out new releases, evidence of my personal interest in this distribution. Overall, recommended.
Kanotix and SimplyMEPIS are two of my favorite easy to install Live CD based systems.
except that SimplyMEPIS is simply not free software (yet) even though Warren has promised to make it free for the next release (no such issues with Kano's scripts)<a href="http://business.newsforge.com/comments.pl?sid=53313&cid=121990" title="newsforge.com">http://business.newsforge.com/comments.pl<nobr>?<wbr></nobr> sid=53313&cid=121990</a newsforge.com>
except that SimplyMEPIS is simply not free software (yet) even though Warren has promised to make it free for the next release (no such issues with Kano's scripts)<a href="http://business.newsforge.com/comments.pl?sid=53313&cid=121990" title="newsforge.com">http://business.newsforge.com/comments.pl<nobr>?<wbr></nobr> sid=53313&cid=121990</a newsforge.com>
Hats off to Kanotix for its hardware recognition capacity and speed.
But I rely PCLinuxOS for its overall features.
But I rely PCLinuxOS for its overall features.
Kanotix is indeed useful
Posted by: Anonymous Coward on March 15, 2006 03:17 AMHowever, there are two things in Knoppix that I've missed in the live CD version of Kanotix:
1. Emacs
2. a US-English default
Obviously I could have these things in a custom remastering of Kanotix if I were sufficiently motivated to create one.
And I can at least type 'us' at the boot prompt in order to get US-English, if I'm paying close enough attention at boot-time.
Kanotix recently helped me to bail out a resource-challenged consultant at our office -- with a side-glance to "Knoppix Hacks" (the O'Reilly book -- much of which is also applicable to Kanotix) I was quickly able to help the consultant to bring up a Remote Desktop session from a workstation to an MS Windows '03 server.
#