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Review: Gentoo 2004.2
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CommentsIf you're heretofore unfamiliar with Gentoo Linux, it's a source-based GNU/Linux distribution; that means that you compile some or all of the operating system and the accompanying programs from source code. There are other source-based distributions, such as Source Mage, ROCK Linux, Onebase Linux, Lunar Linux, and Sorcerer, but what makes Gentoo unique among not only GNU/Linux distributions but most operating systems in general is its Portage program management system. Portage is like Debian's APT tools, except it's much easier to configure and use, and it generally handles the downloading and compiling of source code packages rather than binary packages.
Portage was originally based on the concept of the FreeBSD Ports system, which was the pioneer in source-based package management utilities. Ports categorizes programs in the /usr/ports directory, where the user must navigate to the proper place and run the make install command, whereupon the program source is downloaded and compiled along with any necessary dependencies.
Gentoo's Portage system combines those steps automatically; all you do is type emerge followed by the program name and the software automatically finds the program, downloads it, checks its dependencies, compiles, and then installs it. It needs no configuration under most circumstances; only if you want to install one of the few "masked" packages (which are generally deemed unstable for one reason or another) do you need to modify any config files. Searching for packages is as easy as using the -s flag with the emerge command, and updating is just as simple.
The programs in Portage are generally more up-to-date than you'd find in any APT repository, and since you can compile them specifically for your architecture they can operate significantly faster than precompiled binary packages, which on most operating systems are compiled for the least common denominator -- i386 or i586. That being said, if you're on a slow system or need to save some time, Portage also has a number of binary packages available for many of the most popular programs.
What's new in 2004.2
Earlier this year the Gentoo project team decided to change its version naming convention from small numbers to date-specific identifiers. Gentoo Linux went from version 1.4 last fall to version 2004.0 the following winter. The 2004 is -- of course -- the year of the release, and the 0 stands for the number of the release. As you may already know, programmers generally like to start numeric lists with zero instead of one, so 0 is the first release of this year. 2004.1 followed in the spring, and now we have 2004.2.
According to the 2004.2 release information page, the primary focus of 2004.2 was to improve the quality of the release media. The main additions to 2004.2 seem to be LiveCD support for SATA hard drives, wireless networking, and SMP. Aside from that I found 2004.2 to be much the same as 2004.1 and 2004.0 before it. It still uses the 2.4 kernel by default, the AMD64 edition is still a nightmare to install, and the installation procedure for all architectures is still tedious and time-consuming.
With a binary Linux distribution the kernel doesn't matter all that much to most users, but Gentoo Linux becomes a whole different operating system when you use the 2.4 kernel as opposed to the newer 2.6 tree. 2.4 does not have intrinsic support for ALSA or serial ATA hard drives, so not only do you have to install sound drivers through Portage instead of through the kernel configuration file, you also are limited in the hardware that you can use. It's far more complicated than I can communicate in a review; what you need to know is that the 2.6 kernel should be your first choice when installing Gentoo Linux unless you have a very specific reason to use 2.4.
The Gentoo Handbook has been updated extensively, and the installation instructions have been split from one guide into several architecture-specific guides. I found the x86 installation guide to be accurate and easy to follow, if a bit bloated. My chief complaint about it is that it badly needs a competent editor; the authors get too chatty and go into details that are best left for footnotes or a separate section or sidebar for special-case situations. The installation portion of the document could be cut in half just by taking out such annoying superfluities as the lengthy and wholly unnecessary introductions, facetious comments, and smiley faces. Of course, silly me, I went straight to the handbook first and didn't see that there were streamlined instructions for more experienced users.
It seems like every new Gentoo release has a fancier graphical splash screen and a more complicated "do it by hand" installation procedure. The procedure has remained mostly the same over the past few releases -- a few twists and turns aside -- and although the instructions are easy to follow, the entire process takes far too much time. More often than not, it involves typing in commands you will never need to use again. As a veteran of at least a dozen Gentoo installations across several versions, I can't help but think that the time spent updating the manuals would have been better spent creating a simple shell script to take care of all of the tedious command copying from the installation guide -- something along the lines of the OpenBSD installation script, which is simple but effective. Such a script would save a user or admin from having to go back and forth between consulting the documentation and copying complex commands into the terminal. For this reason, I've found that an installation through OpenSSH (which is included on the LiveCD) is the best way to do a Gentoo Linux installation quickly -- you can copy and paste commands into the SSH terminal directly from a Web browser.
The AMD64 edition of the 2004.2 release is best described as poorly tested -- following the installation instructions did not produce a working operating system for me, but I was able to figure out some ways around the mistakes in the documentation thanks to some tips on the Gentoo forums. The LiveCD, as it has done for all previous versions, did not properly detect and install the kernel module for the 3Com Gigabit Ethernet LAN chip integrated into the ASUS K8V Deluxe motherboard (curiously, the x86 edition does not have a problem with this). Fortunately it loads properly via modprobe, and from previous experience I already knew that the module name was sk98lin.
On my first attempt to get the AMD64 edition installed on an Athlon 64 system using the above-mentioned mainboard, I was not successful -- I'll try again when I have some spare time, but for now I can't recommend the AMD64 edition to any but the most experienced GNU/Linux or FreeBSD veterans who are able to trace and resolve errors in configuration and compiling. You can also scour the forums for help if you have another working machine with a Web browser. You'll probably find everything you need after an hour or so of searching and reading, but one should not have to read forums, newsgroups, or mailing lists to install an operating system. The documentation should be accurate and the software should be properly tested and fully functional, and in the instance that it is not fully functional, it should at least be predictable.
Gentoo on the desktop
Once it's installed and you've completed the first boot, you're still a few hours (or days, if you have anything less than an Athlon XP or Pentium 4 processor) away from a usable graphical desktop. The best way to get to X11 is to emerge either KDE or GNOME (or both) and then work from there. If you know how to configure X.org to start your favorite window manager, you can alternatively emerge X.org and then your window manager of choice.
You can emerge several programs at once if you like, but make sure that they don't have common packages that will try to compile at once -- both compiles will fail and you'll have to restart the emerge process. If you're smart about emerging, you can have four or five virtual terminals compiling different programs at once without any problems.
Once you've installed most or all of the software that you need, Gentoo provides a fast and easily updated desktop operating system that has a gigantic arsenal -- to the tune of more than 7,000 packages -- of extra programs in the Portage system. Updating is as easy as typing emerge sync and then emerge -u world. Historically this has occasionally resulted in a failed upgrade of some critical package, such as GCC or Perl, but 2004.2 seems to be more stable in that regard, from what I can tell after several days of use. Obviously some problems will be isolated or won't show up until there is an upgrade to a critical package, but I've found that the Gentoo forums are generally responsive to failed ebuilds and you can get assistance with your problem rather quickly (or the problem will simply be addressed and fixed in Portage). The online Gentoo forums are probably the best, most friendly distro-specific community on the Internet, and are a welcome alternative to the mailing lists and newsgroups dominated by curmudgeonly developers that some community distributions rely upon for support.
Gentoo Linux requires some patience and a willingness to learn how to solve problems. If you absolutely hate to tinker with software and demand something that "just works" in whatever definition you deem valid, stay away from Gentoo. Even if Gentoo Linux adopts a sensible installation script or utility someday, or if you use VidaLinux (a graphical and easy-to-install Gentoo-based distribution), you'll still have to do some configuration work and some occasional maintenance and problem-solving.
Gentoo often has the latest software before any other distribution offers it. That means you'll get the latest versions of Mozilla, Evolution, GNOME, and other programs long before they're ncluded in commercial distributions or inserted into the unstable branch of Debian's package repository.
Next: Gentoo as a serverComments
on Review: Gentoo 2004.2Note: Comments are owned by the poster. We are not responsible for their content.
The emerge X.org deal was not intended to be a command -- I was using "emerge" as a verb, not as a terminal command. An editor changed that to put code tags around it, thus changing the intended meaning.
I was envisioning a Bash script that asks you the same questions that the installation guide does. The only difference between the script and doing it the old way is the amount of reading the manual and typing or copying in commands required. It's much easier for me if I don't have to sit there and babysit an installation, constantly looking up what to do next. Even having installed Gentoo so many times, I can't do it from memory without leaving something out.
-Jem
I was going to say more about Gentoo as a server, with some specific examples. Instead I took those parts out of this review and made them into a whole separate article/case study on using Gentoo as a production server OS. It ought to be here on Linux.com next week sometime.Fantastic! I look forward to it.
The emerge X.org deal was not intended to be a command -- I was using "emerge" as a verb, not as a terminal command. An editor changed that to put code tags around it, thus changing the intended meaning.That's cool--as I said, it was really only a minor gripe.
I was envisioning a Bash script that asks you the same questions that the installation guide does.This could be helpful.
Thanks again for the nice article & I look forward to reading your next piece.
We've got a specific article on Gentoo as a server publishing here tomorrow.
-Jem
Some even say that it makes a good server, too.Perhaps, as you don't end up with packages that aren't used. MOST gentoo installations do feature compilers (go figure for a mostly sourced-based distro). There are some who wouldn't want to have these tools on their server. Yes, they can compile on some other machine & install binaries. But why not just use (for example) Slackware?
Searching for packages is as easy as using the -s flag with the emerge command, and updating is just as simple.-s to search titles, -S to search descriptions. Also check out esearch, which compiles a database of the programs in portage & allows for much faster searching (though it does take a lot of time to generate the database in the first place).
With a binary Linux distribution the kernel doesn't matter all that much to most users, but Gentoo Linux becomes a whole different operating system when you use the 2.4 kernel as opposed to the newer 2.6 tree.Nonsense--binary users worry about hardware compatibility and an improved scheduler too.
Minor point, but you typset this as code & you'd really want to:<TT>emerge X.org</TT>
<TT>emerge xorg-x11</TT>
You can emerge several programs at once if you like, but make sure that they don't have common packages that will try to compile at once -- both compiles will fail and you'll have to restart the emerge process. If you're smart about emerging, you can have four or five virtual terminals compiling different programs at once without any problems.For single processor machines, you won't always gain that much to do serial compilations. It is probably better to perform parallel emerges, which also solves problems if they have the same or blocking dependencies. Just 'emerge xorg-xll mutt vim' for example. Use ccache to speed up subsequent compiles & possibly '-pipe' as a CFLAG to speed up current installs.
Updating is as easy as typing emerge sync and then emerge -u world.I prefer to:
<TT>emerge -upvD world</TT>to see what I'm getting first. Having the -D flag helps with failed upgrades, as it upgrades dependencies too (some ebuild authors don't always check for the minimum version needed for a dependency, especially with mixed stable (e.g. 'x86') and unstable (e.g. '~x86') packages.
Gentoo Linux development seems to be moving very slowlyI suspect that this is partly because upgrades are so easy--you can install it once & just use portage to get the latest version. Thus, portage is improved & the installation process not-so-much.
Even doing a stage 3 install takes a little too long -- the process could be mostly automated by using the simplest of Bash scripts.I think the philosophy is to have the freedom to choose. So they don't want to offer simple shell scripts that make choices for you. Because the scripts could be trivial, you can write them or get them from the forums if you want non-interactive deployment.
The 2.4 kernel is a horrible choice for GentooBut 2.6 kernels are included on the 2004.2 disc (2.6.7), and in both the stable and unstable branches of portage (both 2.6.8). 2.6.5 was even included in 2004.1. Once again, the choice is yours.
Please don't make too much of my minor criticism--this was, overall, a worthwhile review.
On the issue of sound and ALSA: OSS works just fine on the 2.4 kernel for most of my systems. ALSA installation on 2.4 isn't particularly difficult, either. There's an excellent guide on the Gentoo documentation web site.
On installation scripts: I wrote those myself in about an hour. The first script formats all the partitions and unpacks CD # 1, the second script unpacks CD 2, the third script does everything that needs to be done at "chroot" time to install the base system, and the fourth installs all the binary packages from the second CD.
I generally install with stage 3 plus *everything* from the i686 second "packages" CD. Total install time for a stage 3 install using the i686 binaries is about three hours on my 1.3 GHz Athlon T-bird, slightly less on a 2.4 GHz P4 and slightly more on the Athlon XP laptop because the hard drive is dog-slow.
There's not all that much that needs to be compiled when you do it this way, and i686 code with the Gentoo-selected default optimizations isn't a lot slower on most functions. Where I do need optimization -- number crunching -- I use higher levels of optimization and architecture-specific flags.
Once I have a stage 3 / Gentoo Reference Platform built from CDs without network, I do an "emerge sync" to update the Portage tree. Then I add the packages I use regularly<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... this adds another few hours for the compiles. Eventually, as packages get updated from the level on the release CDs, they get recompiled, but you get a pretty good system by doing a stage 3 / GRP install off the CDs.
The biggest downside to Gentoo that I've found is the large disk requirement for all the source packages. My "/usr/portage/distfiles" is about 3.5 GBytes and climbing. I've moved it to a separate partition so I can manage it better, and I have a mirror of it on a 20 GB USB hard drive, which makes installs on multiple boxes easy.
The biggest upside to Gentoo that I've found is the quantity and quality of Java-based software. The "other" large community-based distro, Debian, has a somewhat slanted take on the "freedom" of Java and software written in Java. A whole bunch of software I use and like -- the PEPA performance modeling tool, DBDesigner 4, jMAX and other audio software, the Protege ontology software -- is written in Java.
Ed Borasky
http://www.algocompsynth.com/
http://www.najatech.com/InstallInstructions
Quite honestly, none of us are really supporting this anymore. So just send bug reports and feature enhancements to<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/dev/null
<TT>It still uses the 2.4 kernel by default, the AMD64 edition is still a nightmare to install, and the installation procedure for all architectures is still tedious and time-consuming.</TT>
This is the nature of Gentoo if you don't like it you can choose not to use it. I personally like the installer, it weeds out those who are not yet ready to see what their computer is doing.
I'd like to comment on the following statement which is targeted at me:
My chief complaint about it is that it badly needs a competent editor; the authors get too chatty and go into details that are best left for footnotes or a separate section or sidebar for special-case situations.
I'm sorry to hear that you find the Gentoo Handbook incompetently written. I encourage you to go visit the Gentoo Bugtracking website and search for all the bugs regarding the Gentoo Handbook that have been resolved so far. You'll notice that the current Gentoo Handbook is written with the users in mind and with all (well, most) user feedback integrated.
Writing documentation isn't easy, on the contrary. It is impossible to satisfy everybody. My GDP (Gentoo Documentation Project) fellow writers and I have the quite difficult job to write documentation that pleases most users.
Together with this comes the fact that the Gentoo Installation allows for great flexibility. Not all users want to be informed about this flexibility, but most are. That's why the Gentoo Handbook is written so verbose: users who want to learn can do this easily by reading the Gentoo Handbook. Those who don't can just follow the steps needed to install Gentoo and skip the less relevant parts.
Taking the history of the gentoo installation instructions in mind, they have evolved from a 3-page document into a 90+ pages booklet. This is not because the editors and I have so much time on our hands that we continuously add new sections to it, but because we take all user feedback into account from which we clearly hear the need for a complete installation document which covers each and every task of the installation.
I encourage you to report any issues you came across while reading the Gentoo Handbook. If I am too chatty at certain sections, please tell me where and I'll see if I can update the Gentoo Handbook if appropriate.
With kind regards,
Sven Vermeulen
Gentoo Documentation Project Lead
I've been a recent convert to Gentoo, coming from years on the learning-curve of RedHat, Debain and other wannabe-distros.
My first encounter with Gentoo was obviously the install doco. I thought it was necessarily concise and very well written. It covered the logic to install for a newbie but at the same time for an experienced user.
The pointers over and to sections were well placed and clear. It does what I previously thought impossible by allowing all types of users to install all types of configurations. It is a difficult task, writing documentation, and usually not too fun, so to make it effective at the same time takes talent and deep understanding.
I must say, I'll be supporting Gentoo for sometime from now, and a lot to do with that pledge is the superb documentation, the centrepiece of the Gentoo experience.
Well done Sven!
d.
I must cammend you on your HandBook
I'm new to gentoo and I've always been a Slackware user. I found your handbook very good.
as for the chatty stuff, I liked that it was chatty. I don't like reading formal documents
Linux was meant to be fun, and I feel that it lost some of that fun, until Gentoo came around
it makes it fun again<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)
make all the smiley faces you want man<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)
just wanted to say keep up the good work
Dactry
Remember Always look on the bright side of life
However, I don't agreee with you on the documentation. I followed it closely with the installation and proved to be an excellent resource. Some examples such as installing CUPS proved extremely helpful to me.
Previously, I have installed other distros (RedHat, SuSe and Mandarke) but Gentoo is by far the most challenging. You learn a lot from installing Gentoo than with the above distros.
Overall, I recommend Gentoo highly. The documentation provides a good guidance to a very complex task.
I don't quite understand what you mean by "The lack of an installation utility" as Gentoo is meant to be a do-it-yourself Linux flavor. People have created installation versions (search Gentoo forums for installs).
"Overall, Gentoo Linux 2004.2 is the same as it's been since 1.4 -- it's still a pain to install" I suppose this is true if the only time you ever installed it was twice (first being your 1.4 review and then again for this one). Though for most of the seasoned Gentoo users (and ones who needed to install it 15 times at first due to one mishap or another) the installation process is quite simple. I have my own method of installation which is very easy to follow and I have given it to friends who agree.
I did like your opening paragraph and I must say it lured me in as it should, however you lost me many times by changing what appeared to be an experienced view point.
Gentoo Linux as a server works great as well, I'm running a mail server with it. "..the less opportunity there is for broken circular dependencies and other Portage-killing debacles." In regads to this startment, I'm assuming you installed some packages which were masked and you are referring to updating the system? The ebst method for such things is to install them without the USE flag and rather setup your package mask file in<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/etc/portage which keeps a record of masked packages you allow to be compiled.
I'm most confused at what you said here though:
Statement #1 --
"Gentoo will probably never replace Debian, Red Hat, SUSE, or FreeBSD in the Web hosting market,"
Statement #2 -- (same paragraph)
"the OS itself has enough fans to merit a place for it in the server market. In addition to hosting companies, there are also about a half dozen custom hardware companies worldwide that offer Gentoo Linux preinstalled on new computer systems, both for desktop and server use."
Pardon the large quote but to me when you say "..In addition to hosting companies.." that means you feel Gentoo has a place in the hosting market, and I think you might just regret saying Gentoo will never replace those other distrobutions. You did through the 'probably' in there, so kudos for remembering to cross your fingers behind your back, thats great journalism!
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