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How not to release a live DVD game

By Joe Barr on January 24, 2007 (8:00:00 AM)

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I was intrigued when I heard about SuperGamer, a beta live DVD based on PCLinuxOS. The DVD includes, in demo version for the most part, 3-D shooters America's Army, Doom 3, Postal 2, Cube, Enemy Territory, Nexuiz, Quake 4, Soldier of Fortune, UFO: Alien Invasion, and Wesnoth. Unfortunately, my SuperGamer/PCLinuxOS experience was as bad a Linux experience as I can remember having.

I tried to download the DVD with BitTorrent, but gave up when the estimated completion time started at 7 days in the future and slipped badly beyond that mark after only an hour or so. Instead, I ordered a DVD from On-Disk for $8.75, including postage.

When it arrived, I booted my system from the DVD and noted that I had neither sound nor an Internet connection. I also found myself suffering from the poor performance live CDs are notorious for, so I decided to install the game on a test machine -- specifically, one with an AMD Athlon 64 3200+ CPU, 1GB of RAM, and an MSI K8 mainboard with onboard Ethernet and audio. It has a Logitech USB mouse, an Nvidia GeForce 6600 PCI-E video card, and a ViewSonic V17B flat screen display. In addition to a single 160GB Maxtor hard drive, it has a Sony CD/DVD ROM drive.

The good news is that SuperGamer installation is simple and takes only about half an hour. The bad news is that it may not leave you with optimal configurations for video, sound, or network connectivity. Further, your faith in PCLinuxOS as a stable and reliable desktop distro may be tarnished by a few rough edges.

I first became concerned about the install when, after turning over the hard drive to the installer to partition according to its own tastes, a screen appeared that is designed to allow users to follow the progress of the disk formatting, copying of files, and so on. The problem was that the "time remaining" for each tasks tracked almost exactly with the "time elapsed" for the same task -- so after 25 minutes of installation, for example, the "time remaining" was 25 minutes and increasing. No, it's not a serious flaw, but it's not exactly reassuring either, even for a beta release.

There isn't much to do during the install except click Next when each stage finishes. At the end of the installation, I was asked where to write the bootloader information. I chose the master boot record (MBR) of my hard drive, a.k.a. /dev/hdc, since my CD/DVD drive is at /dev/hda.

The last step was to enter a password for root, a user name and ID, and a user password. You are also given an option to delete the "guest" account, which is used for live DVD sessions. When I selected that option, however, I got an error message. Again, this sort of thing does not build confidence.

My first boot following the first install failed. Only the "L" from the LILO bootloader printed on the screen before it hung up. The second install mirrored the first one exactly in all respects, but this time the LILO bootloader install worked. Looking at the install help after the fact, I read that if another distro had previously written to the MBR, LILO might not install correctly. How hard can it be to include a command like dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/hda bs=512 count=1 in the installation process?

After the second install, I noted that the system automatically logged me in as the indelible Guest, rather than the user I had created. I also noted that I still did not have decent screen resolution, sound, or an Internet connection.

It only took a second to cure the connectivity issue. Clicking on the PCLinuxOS Configuration Center icon, I easily configured the on-board Ethernet adapter. Encouraged by that success, I also changed the auto login configuration to start my user instead of Guest. Those changes made, I ended the session and logged back in as Gamer to see what life would be like as a real user.

Alas, there wasn't much improvement. I want two things for my 3-D fantasy games: good high-resolution graphics and booming sound. I had neither. But I did now have an Internet connection, so I went off to find solutions there for my sight and sound woes.

The first place I looked for help was on the PCLinuxOS (a.k.a. PCLOS) IRC channel for which the developers provide a desktop icon. I got two tips there in short order, one of which worked. I was told to try FXdrake to configure my video, and in about a minute my screen was at 1280x1024, where it belongs.

The second tip was to run alsaconf to cure my sound blues, but that tip didn't work. The software still didn't recognize the onboard Azalia soundchip. I tried to get around the problem by using a USB Sound Blaster card. It worked with the operating system right out of the box. Finally, I was ready for some gaming -- or thought I was. I still got no sound from Doom or other games. This problem was not a SuperGamer or PCLOS problem, however; it's simply the lack of an adequate driver for the Sound Blaster.

Next, I borrowed a Sound Blaster Audigy PCI card from another system and installed it in the test box. SuperGamer/PCLOS seemed to see the card, but it couldn't correctly install it. Alsaconf tried to install the correct driver, and thought that it had done so, but I ended up with no /dev/dsp device and no sound. Just to make sure the hardware was good, I installed Ubuntu Edgy on the test machine, and it detected and used the SB Audigy just as it should. Repeated trips to the IRC channel and a post on the SuperGamer Forum were to no avail. My problems fell on deaf ears.

To be fair, SuperGamer probably works just fine on some systems, though I think that failing to work with onboard AC-97, onboard Azalia, and SB Audigy shows there are a lot of systems out there that it doesn't work on. But I have given up on SuperGamer without ever having shot a bad guy. The DVD's rough edges, failures to detect and configure components, and non-functioning sound far outweigh whatever its good points may be.

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on How not to release a live DVD game

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Deaf ears

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on January 24, 2007 06:30 PM
My problems fell on deaf ears.


Well, of course. No-one could get sound to work.

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Re:Deaf ears

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on January 26, 2007 02:18 AM
and no-one was going to either. The drivers didn't exist for the Operating System. Not for any Linux based OS.

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erm... for those with: # eval `cat $internet`

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on January 24, 2007 07:49 PM
> dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/hda bs=512 count=1
"Nice" advice -- if I recall correctly, that would blow partition table of DOS disklabel away just as well as bootloader.

Another problem might be with BIOS drive remapping, solved by something like

disk=/dev/hdc

        bios=0x80

but that would rather point a finger at a person who built the (well, test) system in quite awkward way. I personally don't buy from PC vendors who happen to put IDE disk as a primary slave or as a master but with CD/DVD ROM/RW on the *same* cable, just because it happens to coincide with overall quality.

--
Michael Shigorin

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Re:erm... for those with: # eval `cat $internet`

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on January 24, 2007 11:36 PM
You can backup the MBR & partition table with this...
# dd if=/dev/hda of=/path/to/file.mbr bs=512 count=1

You can clear the MBR without messing with the partition table with this...
# dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/hda bs=446 count=1

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Beta Release

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on January 25, 2007 03:08 AM
I agree it doesn't look like you had a very good experience, Joe. However, don't you think that, being both free (you chose to not pay for it) and a beta release (thus error-prone by nature) that your judgement was a little bit harsh? Just something to keep in mind.

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Re:Beta Release

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on January 25, 2007 07:35 AM
as he states in the article, he ordered it by postal mail and paid for it.

i guess, trying to analyze the article, the core problem here is the lack of drivers by the hardware manufactureorz and the (understandable) lack of desire of linux distributors to inlcude third-party binary drivers.
does that qualify a chicken and egg problem?

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Re:Beta Release

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on January 25, 2007 09:12 AM
And as I stated, he simply chose that option. He did not have to. Keep in mind that the reason he chose it is that he is being paid to write an article about it and waiting more than a week to start was not acceptable.

I have nothing against Joe, I like most of his articles. I simply believe he was too quick to pass extreme judgement in this particular one.

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Re:Beta Release

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on January 25, 2007 10:47 AM
more like this article came from the pay-er<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;).. seems like a Windows vs Linux article that's found very disputable,,, all comes down to the payer.

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Re:Beta Release

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on January 25, 2007 09:06 PM
You're kidding, right? The problems were not in the games, but in basic installation steps which have been solved problems in Linux for years. How many Linux LiveCD/DVDs are there now? Dozens? Maybe hundreds? This isn't cutting-edge code here- it's been done already. When a live disk won't even boot reliably, or detect common hardware, it's poo. No excuses.

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Re:Beta Release

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on January 26, 2007 02:08 AM
I agree with the point that they work with common hardware. Which in the article, his hardware is totally uncommon. Nonsense to even think about using such junk to base an article on. Nobody's claiming the livedvd is pioneering "cutting-edge code", but they are pioneering a gaming environment, that was many times tried and failed by others, where they have succeed further than the others.

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A list of such deliberately crippled products is..

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on January 25, 2007 09:46 AM
"..my SuperGamer/PCLinuxOS experience was as bad a Linux experience as I can remember having."

This is NO accident.

It has been deliberately crippled to keep people from even thinking that Linux might be goods for games.

This sort of thing has happened many time,... eg, the old Knoppix games, where the games where chosen to be either, uninteresting and work, or interesting and not work.

The list of such deliberately crippled products is very long.


Jade @ <a href="http://m.domaindlx.com/LinuxHelp/" title="domaindlx.com">http://m.domaindlx.com/LinuxHelp/</a domaindlx.com>

Where there are also HOWTOs on:

1) cloning your windows XP/2000 installations using Linux (back-ups).
2) installing windows XP/2000 on a spare partition with Linux.
3) accessing and writing to Windows XP (formatted with the NTFS) from Linux.
4) a script to walk you through a Gentoo Linux installation.
5) remix those 14 Debian installation CDs as 2 DVDs.
6) the entire book "Linux Device Drivers 3" as a single web-page (ie in HTML format).
7) 3D acceleration for ATI cards (simple procedure, works for SuSE and Mandriva and Debian).
8) some discussion on the GPL and non-free third party kernel modules.
9) and some politics, eg: Israel Fakes a Provocation for War (the "kidnapping" of Cpl Shalit).
10) and on compiling the worlds best DVD/Movie/Video/MP3 Player and Encoder (MPlayer and MEncoder).

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Re:A list of such deliberately crippled products i

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on January 25, 2007 11:01 AM
it wasn't crippled. Joe was paid to write a bad article trying to stump the dvd makers from making another release. That's what he gets paid for, writing, and he's paid to write what he's told to write<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;),, it's about the "payee", wonder who paid for such article? Could it have been the mother distro? After all, the dvd has made more record than the mother has, and only 2 releases into the beta stage, and it's seen everywhere. Chalk it up to payment for Joe, and move on.
It does seem that Joe was the ONLY one to have such a bad experience though. And to try blaming the installer onto the dvd. The makers didn't claim to have made the installer, and the base it was made on has the SAME bugs Joe reported. Sorry Joe, that one didn't fly. Not even trying to compare it with the latest release of the mother distro, try comparing it with the base it was built from instead<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)
Maybe next time you're paid to write a bad story, the payee will have better ideas for you to go over<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;)

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Re:A list of such deliberately crippled products i

Posted by: Administrator on January 26, 2007 03:52 AM
I don't know who you are or what you think you know about how NewsForge and Linux.com work but Joe was not paid for writing a bad article. Joe was paid for writing a review of the distribution. The fact that it was a bad review was Joe's discretion. Suggesting otherwise is ridiculous. How things actually work aside, who would ever pay to see a bad review of a gaming LiveCD? Is there another proprietary gaming LiveCD out there that this one is stealing market share from? How could that possibly be?

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Re:A list of such deliberately crippled products i

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on January 25, 2007 11:33 AM
" And to try blaming the installer onto the dvd. The makers didn't claim to have made the installer"

The installers are the most crippled of all Linux products,... always have been.

I wonder why?

Jade @ <a href="http://m.domaindlx.com/LinuxHelp/" title="domaindlx.com">http://m.domaindlx.com/LinuxHelp/</a domaindlx.com>

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Re:A list of such deliberately crippled products i

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on January 26, 2007 02:15 AM
Such nonsense, installers are in a different variety and they have to be in specific ways without violating GPL and proprietary licenses. Wake up, smell the coffee<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;)

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PCLOS sound

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on January 25, 2007 05:36 PM
I had the same problem with alsaconfig in PCLOS and found that if I manually started the kernel module that alsaconfig found (and wrote into<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/etc/modprobe.conf), my sound would work. I was able to fix it permanently by adding the sound kernel module, "snd-ice1724" in my case, to the<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/etc/modprobe.preload file. I had to do the same for powernow_k8 (so my CPU fan wouldn't run all the time).

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mistake

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on January 25, 2007 10:54 PM
You just made a newbie mistake. Don't force your software (linux) to work with your hardware but take it the other way !
There is a lot of hardware that "just work" on Linux and for most of them they are working with all the OS you could install on your gear...
The tip is to search for help before buying, not after.

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Re:mistake

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on January 26, 2007 02:20 AM
Very good points, but he wasn't getting paid to test it on real hardware, he only tested on a junk box and left it at that.

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Re:mistake

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on January 26, 2007 09:50 AM
Very true. Expecting to build a 3d gaming system based on a 6600 graphics card is a mistake to start with. Some other advice would be to start fresh by removing all old partitions and redoing it with your favorite partitioning scheme in the distributions native format (ext3) when installing. And then maybe let the newly installed hard drive installation boot before trying to configure hardware. I have several MSI based systems here and haven't had any of these problems. Wanna try it again Joe?

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Re:mistake

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on January 27, 2007 09:00 AM
I don't see the problem with using a slightly old video card to play what are essentially ancient games, Quake4 being the only exception and it's a bloody sequal.

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Re:A list of such deliberately crippled products i

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on January 26, 2007 04:25 AM
I think the parent was parodying the OP's PCLinuxOS conspiracy theory that a shadowy 'someone' was releasing this disk to try to make Linux look bad.

  At least I hope so, 'cause that "Aha! It was Joe Barr!" stuff was certainly laughable..

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Re:my problem -- not sound but mouse!

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on January 27, 2007 04:29 AM
I had the same problem with my logitech mouse. Another mouse worked fine. That was fixed by using the livecd nousb boot code. As far as sound, I AM having problems with my Audigy 2. It all boils down to hardware configuration. I'm working on getting that fixed. Live cd's are still kind of iffy. Some work on one system, some don't. With a little effort I've been able to make them all work, sometimes just not out of the box.

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bs=512?

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on January 28, 2007 05:43 AM
Just a note about something you tell in your article:
"How hard can it be to include a command like dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/hda bs=512 count=1 in the installation process?"

Are you sure you want your partition table being destroyed?

It is 446 bytes, not 512.

With 512 you include your partition table, so if you really want to destroy the MBR only use 446.

(I think it's important to make clear this, so other people who read your article will think they will blank the MBR (with the partition table intact) with your command as it is)

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my problem -- not sound but mouse!

Posted by: Administrator on January 26, 2007 11:50 PM
So, I didn't have any problem with Supergamer recognizing my Audigy 2 sound card, or most other aspects of installation. The frame rate for the Quake 4 demo wasn't great, but wasn't much worse than Windows on this machine -- the problem is my Nvidia 440 MX video card.

But the one annoying problem, which I've never run into with any other Linux distro, was that it didn't recognize my mouse input in the x axis. The y axis yes, so I could move up-down but not left-right.

Apparently, this was specific to my (non-bluetooth) wireless mouse, because when I plugged in a USB mouse it worked. It just seemed strange, though, because the wireless keyboard -- run off the same hub -- was recognized just fine.

As I say, never before . . .

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