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New KDE 4 preview shows progress

By Joe 'Zonker' Brockmeier on February 26, 2007 (8:00:00 AM)

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On Friday, the KDE Project released the third in a series of development previews for the upcoming KDE 4.0 release. Dubbed "Kludge," the 3.80.3 release includes the Sonnet language library, the new Dolphin file manager, and the Solid hardware library.

Packages for Kludge are already available for Kubuntu Edgy and openSUSE, and source is available from the KDE Web site. The release is not meant for end users, but aimed at programmers who want to assist with KDE 4 development, and porting or developing applications to KDE 4. Kludge is still incomplete and seriously buggy, and unlikely to be usable for day-to-day work for some time.

Despite some initial erroneous reports, Dolphin's appearance does not herald the demise of Konqueror. Konqueror will continue to be available in KDE 4, and Dolphin will be available as a less complex file manager. KDE developer Aaron Seigo corrected the early reports on his blog. "The plan right now is for Dolphin to become the file manager that gets launched from the default panel buttons and by apps requesting to launch a file manager.... Konqueror is a power user's application that cannot be fully replaced by something like Dolphin (and vice versa). They have different use cases and different target audiences."

Solid

As for the Solid library, KDE developer Will Stephenson describes it as "the system of hardware interfaces in KDE 4." Stephenson says that Solid exists because of "a demand from a wide range of desktop applications to talk to a hardware, and ... the growth of KDE."

Over the lifetime of the KDE 3.x branch, Stephenson says that Linux gained support for "a range of hardware that user applications needed to interact with." In the past, Stephenson notes that the support for this hardware was "rare or had terrible driver support," which meant that "each KDE 3 application tended to develop its own interfaces to this hardware."

This, says Stephenson, "isn't the KDE way of doing things." Instead, he says that the project prefers to provide libraries that all apps can use -- an approach that provides code that's more stable and uses less memory. KDE 4 addresses the problem with Solid. "Solid provides a gathering point for all the hardware code in KDE 4, with a set of well-designed, documented, library-quality interfaces to hardware."

Stephenson says that the core work on Solid is done, and the next step is to adapt code written for KDE 3, "like the removable media framework and KNetworkManager," and to write documentation for other developers. "The API documentation is already in pretty good shape. We're also starting on folding the webcam code from Kopete into Solid so that it is available to more apps."

Multi-platform KDE

The other motivator for an abstracted hardware interface is the expansion of KDE beyond Linux and other *nix OSes. Another feature in the Kludge release is improved support for KDE 4 on Windows and Mac OS X. That may seem an odd concept to some users, but Seigo says that there is "a large amount of demand for KDE technology on these platforms, particularly from those who want to develop software.

"KDE helps solve two big issues for many people trying to write modern desktop applications: portability and open source tools. For instance, there are many applications whose biggest hurdle to being cross-platform is the lack of a lightweight, highly capable, open, easily embeddable HTML component. Internet Explorer, Gecko, Opera -- they all fail on one or more of those requirements. The result is these apps sit marooned on Windows. KDE 4 will start to solve these problems."

By making it easy to port applications to proprietary platforms, Seigo says that KDE developers are trying to encourage "a surge in people writing open source applications, or applications that rely on open source. In the software world, it's all about the developers and in particular their numbers."

However, Seigo says that there is "no intention" to port the entire KDE shell to Windows or Mac OS X. "This is in part because a window manager such as KWin simply has no purpose to play there, and in part because we are still also primarily interested in creating a holistic experience for the user that revolves around Free software.... While many of our powerful and popular applications will find their way to Windows and Mac OS, we still see the workspace and the improved integration it offers as the 'value add' we provide on Free operating systems."

Timeline and future snapshots

The preview releases have been slow in coming so far, but Seigo says that the KDE Project will be releasing snapshots more regularly now because "we now have a better release team strategy in place and because development is simply in an easier-to-snapshot place. From the context of the 'little steam engine who could' story, we've finally reached the top of the mountain."

Stephenson agrees that KDE 4 development is accelerating "now that the core library porting and cleaning up is mostly done and people are able to put time into updating documentation and tutorials. For a long time there was so much flux in the base libraries that keeping up with them was a full-time job. Most application authors prefer not to have to troubleshoot kdelibs as well as their own code, so now that the libraries have settled down, the number of developers available to work on KDE 4 has really increased."

Seigo says that the project has "hit a nice stride now, one that we struggled to achieve in the early days of KDE 4," but cautions that it's not "a trivial project."

"This is similar in scope to KDE 2 development, and as such is not as breezy an affair as, say, KDE 3 was. The effort required has been, and continues to be, greater. Once 4.0 is out the door then it is, as they say, all downhill from there, and we will enter easier development cycles from there on out through the KDE 4 series."

So, when will 4.0 be out the door? There's no definite date, but Stephenson says that "you'll see generally usable packages starting to appear after Akademy [in early July], with the distributions starting to deliver previews after that, followed by a 4.0." Seigo didn't give a hard date, but says that the project is still committed to delivering KDE 4.0 by the end of 2007.

KDE developers are looking to the future with KDE 4, but Seigo says that they will also continue to tend to the existing stable release while KDE 4 is under development and for some time after the 4.0 release is out. "There will be another 3.5.x release coming, probably in mid/late spring 2007. As long as there are useful bug fixes and feature adds, 3.5 will continue to be produced.

"There are many companies that have support contracts to fulfill that revolve around KDE 3 installations. Since many companies, governments, and schools only upgrade their systems on a conservative schedule ranging anywhere from 3-7 years, there really is no other option that matches the reality of the market other than to continue 3.5 for those who are using it."

Instead of abruptly ending support for KDE 3.5.x, Seigo says that the 3.5 branch will "naturally phase itself out" as KDE 4 is adopted. "This is one of the beautiful aspects of Free software: unlike Microsoft and how they now have to push Vista and discourage use of their older products regardless of what that means for their downstream markets, the users and downstream industry gets to decide how long KDE 3 remains."

However, Seigo says that KDE 4 will be "the primary focus" for the KDE Project. "This ensures a future path for our growing user base and downstream industry partners, whenever they are ready to take it. Of course, the early adopters and enthusiast crowds are happy to be able to jump on KDE 4 today.

"Everybody gets what they want -- doubly so if they put a little back in."

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To Vista or Not To Vista KDE

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on February 27, 2007 02:48 AM
Looking at the Dolphin screen shot, I see the Vista-esque address bar with its C:->My Stuff->Documents->Old syntax and I ponder the future look of KDE.

So far, KDE has been highly successful mimicing the Windows look. There's no doubt that this mimicing has eased the fears of Windows users sitting before KDE for the first or even 50th time. But, Windows Vista has a whole new look and frankly, I hate it. It's not that it is all that bad but, it seems to be different for the sake of change which, among other things, is a long-time pet peeve of mine.

This leaves KDE with a decision to make. Continue with the present XPish look, follow Windows with the Vista look, or go for something completely different. I suppose that eventually(after a year or two), most folks will be using Vista and will find anything but the Vista look to be alien, as is the case with the XP look today. It therefore makes sense for KDE to follow the Vista look, as they seem to be doing.

Here's hoping that the new KDE will allow me to switch to "Classic View" and ease my transition to this new Vista look. Perhaps I'm getting old but, after two months of use, I still haven't found anything in Vista that makes it worthwhile in my mind. The new look and Aero Glass are negatives, from my point of view and I hate the idea of my preferred desktop environment(KDE) mimicing it. Even though I do realize that this is probably better for KDE adoption as a whole.

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Re:To Vista or Not To Vista KDE

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on February 27, 2007 04:01 AM
I totaly agree!
I don't like Vista, and I think that KDE should have it's completely own look.

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Re:To Vista or Not To Vista KDE

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on February 27, 2007 05:10 AM
Well fucking said. I hate Vista too. Why follow? Open Source should lead!

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Re:To Vista or Not To Vista KDE

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on February 27, 2007 05:17 AM
Ok, armchair quarterbacks. What does that mean in actual words? How exactly should it look? Oh, please tell us. We're all waiting.

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Re:To Vista or Not To Vista KDE

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on February 27, 2007 10:53 AM
Huh? Did M$ pay you to post your stupid message on this board? Fuck off and eat a dick, little troll.

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Re:To Vista or Not To Vista KDE

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on February 27, 2007 08:19 PM
That's just a stupid response. He's right. No matter what KDE does, people will always say it 'looks like windows'. As long as it has a desktop, icons, a menu and windows, it will look like Windows to people (who don't know the whole WIMP concept was invented in 1985 and NOT by microsoft in 1995...).

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consider your own advice

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on February 28, 2007 05:15 AM
with your increadable use of words, care to explain the details that make it a stupid question.. or.. answer that stupid question?

It seems like a very valid reponse. KDE non-developers start spouting off about how it shouldn't look like something else but the point made was ver valid; how should it look?

Come on then..
- how should you like to see icons formated?
- by what format should the programs menu deploy?
- how are programs to be framed?
- what is the startup sequence?

oh.. wait.. you just wanted to sound all tough with mean words but not actually pose any solutions.

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Re:To Vista or Not To Vista KDE

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on February 27, 2007 06:24 AM
Actually you're INCREDIBLY wrong there. Dolphin's navigation bar was inspired by Nautilus (which has been doing that for a while now), both Dolphin and Nautilus have been using that method since before Vista was released (not sure when it was added to Vista, but no doubt that Nautilus has had it for a lot longer, Dolphin's most likely had it for around as long).

KDE only defaults to looking Windows like (funny I read an old post on a mailing list from several years ago talking about how KDE always copies Mac OS whatever, and Gnome copies Windows... was humorous to read and compare to now how its the reverse), if you don't like the look, you can change it. I don't use Plastik on either my desktop or laptop, I found Serenity and have both machines using it for the window decorations and style.

Also if by "Vista look" you mean "Dolphin", you can just ignore it and use Konqueror instead (and depending on how your distribution packages KDE, you might be able to uninstall Dolphin, which would probably be a tiny savings on disk space that wouldn't be worth the effort).

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Re:To Vista or Not To Vista KDE

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on February 27, 2007 04:45 PM
"So far, KDE has been highly successful mimicing the Windows look."

How, exactly? Everybody keep saying how "KDE mimics Windows" when in reality the similarities between the two are quite limited (apart from both being WIMP-GUI's). The K-menu is totally different than Start-menu, the taskbar looks different and is double-height by default. Konqueror is quite different from Explorer. The things that are similar are

- Kmenu and start-menu are in bottom-left corner
- file-dialogs and print-dialogs are somewhat similar

That's about it. If KDE's goal is to "mimic Windows", they haven't done a very good job, since there are substantial differences between the two.

Where are these similarities, exactly? Anyone?

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Re:To Vista or Not To Vista KDE

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on February 27, 2007 06:21 PM
Where are these similarities, exactly?

I guess most of those kind of comments are from "drive by" clickers and screenshot "users", not anyone having seriously used KDE and windows. Anyone actually using both, would have noticed the substantial differences.

I have a theory about that, it's simply the default blue color schemes that makes people claim it.

A few years back when Suse used a non blue default for KDE, you never saw those comments about it. While Mandriva used a bluish default and got those comments. More recently you can see it in discussions of Kubuntu(Uses some kind of purple, if I'm not mistaken), the "like windows" comments are notably lacking.

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Crack Monkeys Gone Blind!

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on February 27, 2007 11:31 PM
Are you, and the previous poster completely blind or simply moronic? While there certainly are many differences between KDE and Windows, it is impossible to ignore the similarities in the look and feel.

You yourself mention several including:
The Start and KMenus. They are very similar in many ways other than their placement.
File and print dialogs have a similar look and feel in both KDE and Windows.
Konqueror and Explorer serve identical functions look similar and behave in many similar ways.
Window decorations, buttons and menus are also very similar in placement and appearance in both Windows and KDE default configurations.
The panel and task bar share a similar layout, function and behavior.
The entire desktop feel/behavior is very similar between the two as well.
Then of course there is the default theme which shares the blue core and many other color similarities.

KDE is Windows like in appearance, much more so than Gnome and OSX, which have a very different look and feel from Windows. But, you don't have to take my word for it just ask the KDE developers or read their mailing lists. The similarities in look and feel between KDE 3.X and Windows XP are no accident they were intentional and calculated. It was the intention of the KDE developers that the default KDE theme and the overall look and feel be similar to Windows in order to ease migration from Windows to KDE. You can change all of it to suit your desires but, the KDE developers were trying to expand their "market" and were trying to be appealing to the Windows userbase. At the time they were making a big push for business users and having a similar look and feel eased migration anxiety and training costs. It was all done by design.

Differences in KDE abound but the similarities in look and feel between KDE and Windows are undeniable. I have no problem with this. The idea of easing migration is a good one and, as I stated earlier, you can configure KDE to look any way you like even nothing at all like Windows.

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Re:Crack Monkeys Gone Blind!

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on March 03, 2007 08:16 PM
It all comes down to configuration. you can make it look like and behave like windows, or not. The choice is yours.

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Re:To Vista or Not To Vista KDE

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on February 27, 2007 09:52 PM
I don't think that KDE follows Windows, it is not even close. Sure, some Gnome applications copied Windows applications user interfaces.

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Re:To Vista or Not To Vista KDE

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on March 03, 2007 03:32 PM
GNOME had this 'feature' before Windows (Vista) had. OSX had it before GNOME, though.

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Re:To Vista or Not To Vista KDE

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on March 03, 2007 03:31 PM
First came OSX
Then came GNOME
Then came Vista<nobr> <wbr></nobr>..and you dare to call it Vista-esque? Dude, please...

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Middle click on URL?

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on February 27, 2007 08:01 AM
Is it possible to Middle click on a part of the URL so that the folder is automatically opened in the split view?

Imagine you are currently browsing the folder<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/home/Anonymous/Data/Documents

Now you want to move some files to another directory that is located in your home-folder. So you simply Middle click on "Anonymous" and your home folder is opened in the split view, saving you at least one or even more clicks.

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Zonker writes too many articles

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on February 27, 2007 10:39 AM
Maybe you guys should limit his articles or something because it seems like he writes 4 articles a day or something. How about handing over some of his work to new writers. I don't read Zonker's articles much anymore because they have a cookie cutter feel to them as in "here is the good things and here is the bad things and the vendor said this and I really don't have much of an opinion because if I did I wouldn't get paid."

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Re:Zonker writes too many articles

Posted by: Lee Schlesinger on February 28, 2007 04:48 AM
Zonker has a gift for communicating technical material in a way many readers can understand. We welcome story ideas from anyone who can do the same. See <a href="http://www.newsforge.com/write.tmpl" title="newsforge.com">our writing guidelines</a newsforge.com>.

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Seigo's name

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on February 27, 2007 02:54 PM
Mr Seigo's name is misspelled as Siego in the text.

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i hope kde4 will really be this great

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on February 27, 2007 05:54 PM
if kde4 really is so great and development of kde4 applications really is so easy, then maybe firefox, gimp and others will be ported from gnome/gtk to kde/qt ?<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;-)

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Re:i hope kde4 will really be this great

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on February 27, 2007 07:27 PM
Why destroy them in such a horrible way?<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;p

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Re:i hope kde4 will really be this great

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on February 27, 2007 08:23 PM
Yeah, it would be a waste of time and resources. They would improve, though, in terms of memory usage and features and cross-platform-ness, but it would cost a huge amount of time and resources.

Better spend that time on improving them, or even better, improving Khtml/webcore/konqueror and Krita... Those will be better in some time anyway, so why not speed that up and dump the obsolete gtk stuff?

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Re:i hope kde4 will really be this great

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on February 27, 2007 09:28 PM
+1

Firefox doesn't pass the CSS3 test and has security flaws, a printer dialog more than primitive and a file requester that is almost impossible to access a directory that has a dot at his beginning....
Gimp is a geek application were you have to serch for hours how to draw a strait line....

So.. yes, keep focus on konqueror (javascript needs work) and krita.

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Re:i hope kde4 will really be this great

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on February 28, 2007 07:13 AM
Passing the CSS3 test is hardly a measure of how useful a web-browser and basically all web browsers have security flaws (what matters how serious those flaws are, how quickly the developer deals with those flaws, and to an extent how popular the browser is)....
I use Firefox sometimes because of the extensions and for sites that don't work with konqueror.

The Gimp is the most mature image manipulation that runs natively on linux. It kills Krita at this point in terms of tools available and speed.
(at the cost of higher bit depths)


  While the line drawing functionality is difficult to discover in the gimp (you hold down the SHIFT key with any of the painting tools) it should not be taken as a general indication of how hard the Gimp is to use or how useful it is.

If you are doing a lot of lines you probably want an illustration Program like Inkscape...

Anyways neither of the apps is likely to port to QT any times soon. Both have a significant amount of resources invested in their current UI toolkit and language too (the Gimp at least is C not C++)... It will more of an option for new projects just starting out or those in the market for a new toolkit....

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Re:i hope kde4 will really be this great

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on February 28, 2007 07:26 AM
It's also important to note that while CSS3 support is indeed a great thing, it's not actually much use at the moment - unless you're building a Konqy only webpage, or one which degrades in other browsers.

As the Internet stands today we can't even trust CSS2 because of Internet Explorer (mainly), so I don't see the CSS3 standard being used much any time soon.

Still, well done KHTML team, I hope one day we will be able to make use of your improvements.

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Re:i hope kde4 will really be this great

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on February 28, 2007 05:12 AM
Don't expect that to ever happen, especially for those apps.

For the gimp;
GTK was created FOR the gimp, thats why its called the Gimp Tool Kit.

And for Firefox:
in the past several KDE developers wanted to create a Qt backend for Gecko and in about a single day of hacking they pretty much had something up and running. Though when they tried to work with the Mozilla people things pretty much ground to a halt and everything died. Now I think those same people are the ones working on Unity and are progressing much better (since they've been granted access to Apple's CVS server).

Plus why use Firefox(+Gecko) and the gimp when you have Konqueror(+KHTML) and Krita? Konqueror is far more standards compliant (though firefox has the advantage because more broken websites were made broken for it), and Krita can't do everything gimp can, but both are developing far fast than the other as well as having far better UIs (Krita vs the gimp is an utter joke as far as UIs go, the gimp makes you want to stab yourself in your eye unless you give it an entire virtual desktop).

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Re:i hope kde4 will really be this great

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on March 01, 2007 12:02 AM
How about KHTML supporting RICHTEXT ????? Even safari supports it....

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Evolution

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on February 27, 2007 11:21 PM
I really wonder about the state of Linux desktop in about 2 years.

KDE went for major architectural changes from 1.x to 2.x, perfected it a lot in 3.x and it is going for a major redesign again. When will Gnome catch up with that modern redesign?

And even if the Gnome folks decide to go for it soon, look at the present state and evolution trend of Gtk and Qt. How is that for a difference in foundation of both projects.

Furthermore while Gtk had the advantage of a free licence for Windows (LGPL), Qt is now also freely available for that OS (GPL). Not only that, not just Qt but also KDE apps will also build on Windows, unlike Gnome ones as far as I know.

It's going to be very interesting to see the state of both projects in a couple of years.

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Re:Evolution

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on February 28, 2007 05:23 AM
KDE (the apps) aren't just going to be available on Windows, but also OS X WITHOUT using the X11 server. Gtk apps on OS X have to run inside the X11 server and look horridly out of place, though Qt4 and KDE apps on OS X will look native (though you can always change the widget style if you want to any Qt4/KDE ones you have installed like normal).

Also KOffice 2.0 will run natively on OS X which OpenOffice can't even do, so that'll probably give KOffice a HUGE advantage there.

I don't really follow Gnome news very closely (though mostly because I don't see any without going to gnome blogs), I haven't heard them with any at all ambitious projects at all. Are the gnome camps just big on the whole small changes thing, or does their marketing simply SUCK (or both?)

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Re:Evolution

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on February 28, 2007 07:20 AM
Work on Gtk without X11 under Mac OS X is well under way... several applications are doing this now. I still think that QT makes for better quality cross platform apps.

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Re:Evolution

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on February 28, 2007 05:27 AM
I wanna start compiling all my KDE apps then use them under windows.. just to see the look on people's faces when they don't recognize any of the software running ontop of there familiar win32.

bahahaha.. alright.. too much effort for a really select target audience joke; still be fun though.

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