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Mandrake 9.0 vs. Mandrake 8.2 for new Linux users
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CommentsThis article concentrates on describing a basic Mandrake 9.0 installation and setup from a new user's viewpoint, using nothing but default settings all the way through. I've also tossed in a few notes on how Mandrake 9.0 differs from Mandrake 8.2 and other previous Mandrake releases.
The test laptop is a ThinkPad T20, a pleasant, well-aged "mid-range" machine known to run Linux well without any tweaking. The only peripheral attached as I start my installation is an SMC "EZ Connect" Wireless PC Card, Model No. SMC2632W, another device that has already proved to be Linux-capable. I'm using a "download" version of Mandrake 9.0 supplied on preburned CDs by linux-download-cds.com.
I stick the coaster (CD #1) into the cupholder (CD Drive) and look at the install screen. It's similar to the one I saw in earlier Mandrake versions, with its choice of upgrade, rescue or full install. I choose full install by hitting "Enter." The install begins. Mindlessly, I click on the default choices as I begin, and partitions are created automatically, with my 12 GB hard drive split more or less equally between / and /home (ext3) partitions separated by a 243 MB swap partition. Nothing radical, no work to do, no thought required. It has been a while since partitioning was a concern for new Linux users who chose "commercial" distributions, and this latest Mandrake has made the partitioning process literally invisible unless you choose the "expert" option.
I choose automatic package selection, and decide to use all the "package groups" in the left column of the two-column menu, which is all the client/desktop stuff, while not choosing anything in the right column, which is all the server-type stuff you don't really want running on a home/office workstation-type computer anyway. And away we go!
All I do now, having chosen my keyboard and time zone, is sit there. I change the CD once and glance at the screen now and then while answering email on my other laptop, the one with Mandrake 8.2 on it. About 36 minutes later I am asked if I want to configure my network. Yes I do. I click on the "autodetect" default. A few moments later the network claims it's configured, video is working and tested, and we are in business. I remove the CD -- the install program even kicks the CD drive open for me -- and reboot into my shiny-new Mandrake 9.0 installation.
Uh oh. No boot!
It's that danged network. First the boot hangs when it tries to start the ThinkPad's built-in Ethernet port, because it's not connected to anything. Well, duh. I want to use my wireless network, right? At least the timeout on the failed eth0 start is a lot shorter than it was in Mandrake 8.2 and earlier versions when this sort of thing happened. But now we're looking at a try to start eth1, which ought to be the wireless network. Nothing. Five minutes, nothing. 10 minutes, nothing. 15 minutes, still hung. If you are a new user, not familiar with Linux, without the experienced Linux user's knowledge that all problems have solutions, this is when you give up. Maybe you hit the power switch (the only obviously available move at this point) and try to boot again. Same thing. Damn! This Linux thing doesn't work! This sucks! Back to Windows!
Now, if you don't think this is a fairly typical new user reaction, you are wrong. I'm telling you, it happens all the time. This is why everyone who installs Linux for the first time ought to get a little hand-holding, ideally from someone who knows the point-and-click side of things instead of from a SuperGuru who will type in a lot of incomprehensible commands, then say, "Here you go. All that was needed was to parse the cat root slash dev etcetera file for eth 0 and pugle the forward identity-locking rehooliginator and symlink it to the libgc perl humongisooler module after a kernel decompile and basic repatch update. Nothing to it, just RTFM and you'll figure it out!"
Um, yeah. Like that isn't just a tad confusing to most people who never used Linux or Unix before, as in confusing enough to make them run screaming back to Windows -- or DOS or Amiga or OS/2 or whatever else they're accustomed to.
So I don't ask any gurus. Instead, I take the clue from all the functions that scroll by during the boot process that indicate my problem is with the network setup, and I install again, except this time I hit "cancel" when I'm asked if I want to configure a network, and everything is groovy, even my reboot -- although I thought KDE (my desktop choice) had some sort of startup sound that came with it, and I hear nothing.
Real hard solution to the sound problem: Turn up the ThinkPad's volume control using the little buttons with speakers on them. Okay. We have sound now. And a pretty KDE 3 desktop and an OpenOffice that looks okay except I still need to figure out how to get it to boot without that darn splash screen taking everything over (another article) and basically we now have a fully functional Linux system with a lot of software we can use to go to work if we can connect to the Internet somehow, hopefully through our beloved 802.11b network.
The basic Mandrake rule: Start small and grow
I have learned, and hereby pass on to new Linux users thinking about giving Mandrake a try, that you are generally better off doing the least possible setup during the install itself, and doing as much software installation and configuration as you can later. For instance, networking. Now that Mandrake 9.0 is installed and running right, we go to the Mandrake Control Center icon in the little (KDE) panel at the bottom of the screen, click on it, put in our root password, then choose "Network and Internet" from an attractive menu. Now we choose "connection" and we see that both eth0 -- the ThinkPad's built-in Ethernet card -- and our eth1 wireless connection have been detected but neither are running. We click on the "eth1" selection, then on "Wizard," and after clicking "DHCP" a few times, we're done. Our wireless network is "up" while our built-in wired connection is "down," and that's just what we want. I reboot to confirm. Yep. Feeling groovy. Fully connected. In business.
At this point I decide to add some other software I like that wasn't installed by default, including the Bluefish HTML editor, the NEdit text editor, XChat for IRC, and some other items you probably won't want but I do. That's okay. You'll have things you want that I don't. It's all about choice, right? Each program I add automatically jumps into the menu. Nice.
The only thing I can't find is the friendly "kill" button that has been in every Mandrake version since 5.1. It has been left out of 9.0, and Mandrake cofounder Gael Duval is as sad as I am to see it go. "It was my idea, and developers killed it -- ah... cruel world!" he says. The "kill" button was my favorite Mandrake feature back in Netscape 4.x days, when Netscape was prone to crash or freeze at least three or four times every day. Yes, the Mozilla 1.1 browser included with Mandrake 9.0 is many orders of magnitude more reliable the old 4.x Netscapes, but it still barfs now and then. Perhaps we should bring back the "kill" button, Mandrake developers? C'mon. Make me happy. Make Gael happy. Please?
Another lack in the Mandrake 9.0 download edition, thinking of browsers, is plugins. Out in new-userland, a system that doesn't play Real media and display Flash and let you look at Acrobat documents just isn't complete. The lack of Windows Media Player and Quicktime in Linux is bad enough, and even though you can install the Crossover plugin and get Quicktime and WMP and all that, who's going to know that if they download Linux and install it by themselves the first time, without manuals?
The futility of these "first look" reviews
I was just about to mention how the little laptop battery icon in the KDE panel that I couldn't find in Mandrake 8.2 was back by default in 9.0 and I was glad that it was, when the ThinkPad running 9.0 froze up, apparently in "sleep" or "suspend" mode, and wouldn't reawaken. KDE may now be 3.x, but neither it nor Mandrake install the APM (common laptop power management utility) by default, and the instructions on how to do it yourself are just as confusing as they've always been. Maybe this will be corrected in the ~$70 "PowerPack" Mandrake 9.0 package I'm supposed to get by the end of the month. Maybe that more extensive product will have RealPlayer and the other browser gew-gaws, same as 8.2. (I don't recall having them in the 8.2 download edition, either.) And maybe the boxed set will automatically install the online manual for OpenOffice. The download edition does not. OpenOffice is not terribly hard to use for simple tasks, but if you are going to use it for anything beyond basic typing and printing, you will need to look up a thing or two in that manual.
I didn't notice the power management glitch or the missing OpenOffice manual until I had been playing with Mandrake 9.0 for several hours, and I'm sure there are many other bugs -- and many good new features -- I didn't spot during my short test period. Every time I do an early preview/review on a new distribution I know I'm going to miss a lot. Really, to do a complete software package justice, I should use it as my production system for a few weeks. That's the real test.
But I will say this: If you are a new Linux user, you are better off with Mandrake 8.2 for the moment, and you should get it in a package with instruction manuals. That will save you a lot of fumbling around. Leave the latest "download" versions of Mandrake or any other Linux distribution to the experimenters. Stick to the tried and true. You will have a system up and running and fully useful a lot faster, and you will find help easier to get for a product that's been around for awhile than for one that's so new only a few people have much experience with it.
A Gnome moment
Gnome 2 is nice, and the way Mandrake 9.0 installs it, with menus that have everything in the same place as KDE menus, makes the transition easy for KDE users who would like to switch. Gnome configuration -- especially panel configuration -- seems much easier than it was the last time I looked at it. The only thing I couldn't figure out how to do in a few minutes was move the Mac-style menu bar from the top of the screen to the bottom, which is where I would like to have it. The default Gnome bottom-of-the-screen panel configuration Mandrake gave me seemed rather sparse. There wasn't even a "foot" that gave me a menu when I clicked on it. I'm sure, given time, I could figure out how to configure a Gnome panel to my liking and get rid of the Mac-style menu bar, but I don't have much time right now. (Do I ever?) I need to spend some serious time with Gnome -- and with Galeon and Evolution. I haven't had much luck with them in the past. Maybe I will now. Worth a try, anyway -- and an extended try, long enough to get used to them and unused to KDE before I write much about Gnome -- or any other Window Manager or desktop environment. (Or maybe you should write about them. Your opinion is probably as valid as mine or any other reviewer's.)
The upshot
Mandrake 9.0 is pretty. The installation and admin utilities are smoother and more polished than in previous versions. The CD/floppy supermount is great -- far better and easier to use than in earlier Mandrakes. When I get my copy of the PowerPack edition and get all the files in my /home partition moved over from the laptop I'm using now (running Mandrake 8.2), chances are that I'll make it my primary day-to-day distro. But not now. There are just enough little frustrations here, and enough items that are hard enough to deal with (like Mozilla plugins) that I'd just as soon wait a few weeks for the 9.0 packaged version that is comparable to the 8.2 package I'm using now.
And then, after I've used the complete Mandrake 9.0 long enough to have experienced most of its quirks and features, I'll write about it again.
Comments
on Mandrake 9.0 vs. Mandrake 8.2 for new Linux usersNote: Comments are owned by the poster. We are not responsible for their content.
So, all of you that comment about the default look being bad, you should consider your self immediately ignored as I'm sure you have little of value to contribute to the conversation. The sole exeption would be something like this. I didn't like the default theme, so I used x instead. Done. Wow, that was hard wasn't it!?!?!
Shesh...
"The sole exeption would be something like this. I didn't like the default theme, so I used x instead. Done."
You don't make the rules.
I do have a problem with sound from time to time. Them the machine I use the most is my Duron950 Machine. So far it has worked great. I don't have any speakers in that one cus I only use to work. Had a few problems adding items which I installed manually to the menu (I am teachin others how to use Linux and I needed the familiar AIM and Yahoo Messenger in the machine so they could use it) and had to rebbot twice to get it to save the entries I made. After that. No complaints at all. And it does seem to run faster than the Plll. That is another issue.
Finally my "room" pc. This I do use multimedia on. I downloaded Real and it works fine. It is funny I watched a clip on a P4 1.7 and then on my Pll 350 running Mandrake. The P4 would flicker and distort the image when I opened a browser window. In My mandrake Machine I had a document open an AIM plus a browser and no problems at all. The machine did not even cough at anything I threw at it.
Finally Tomorrow I install it on a Pentium 200. I don't know if it will be Mandrake. Love the interface but I am trying to get Redhat 8. I hope to buy the professional version of both to see which will be my desktop of choice (I am also testing my Plll 550 server at work) and my server platform (they may be different)
I believe Mandrake has done an excelent job. They still need to get the instalation right for a newbie. An instalation which will boot even if configurations is wrong. If it is, it should tell you as soon as it boots so it can be corrected, but let it boot up.
PS Does anyone know how to get the driver for Samsung SyncMaster 753DF - none of the distributions, even new ones, seem to have it
I am not trying to imply anything, just that I have tried the distro on different pcs and it seems to work 95% of the time right of the box
If an icon is so important, then just create one and link it to xkill, pretty straight forward in KDE, or just ctrl-alt-esc or type xkill in a konsole.
But i do have a point to make about redhat 8.0, Gnome 2 looks nice but it wont let you install the webfonts rpm, which is a big pissoff for me and im sticking with mandrake 9, just hope Nvidia hurry up and release the kernal cosit just wont let me compile the kernal.
My first impressions of Mandrake 9 were okay but not really too exciting. For me, Mandrake is kinda blah looking, but back to my point. For starters, like I may have mentioned before in another post, I didn't like the display resolution and refresh rates that were given to me in vesa mode (since my monitor wasn't in the database). You had like 1024x768 at 70 and maybe 72Hz but not 85 like my monitor can go up to. The same problem was even worse in the 800x600 category. I was only given like 60Hz as a choice and maybe even lower refresh rates. C'mon Mandrake, give us some more choices for unlisted monitors! There should be choices for 60, 70, 72, 75+ for almost all resolutions in vesa mode.
The second straw that broke the camel's back for me was that it didn't see my "new toy" Sandisk Cruzer USB SD card thingy. If you aren't familiar with what that is, it's a "keychain" (well, slightly larger) USB memory card device that uses multimedia/SD ram cards that the user can upgrade the memory capacity easily. Think of it as a portable card reader that doesn't need drivers. I tried to get it to see the card but it was giving me fits and would have probably frustrated a newbie beyond belief.
On the other hand, I looked forward to so many apps and UI's that had finally hit the x.0 mark and wanted to try them. I didn't get onto the internet with that machine because it didn't have a connection for one where it was being used (a warehouse).
One qualm I had with Mandrake and their wanting to use GRUB for a bootloader as default, I was kinda disappointed with it's look. I guess I was spoiled by Redhat's look of grub with the flashy graphics or something. GRUB for Mandrake was text.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:(
My overall impression of 9 was alright, but I felt like it was too watered down for my tastes. SuSE has spoiled me with too much eye candy I suppose!
Just my two cents.
back to RC2<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:D
The problem is, the device does not exist in the filesystem. (In my case at least...) Devfs doesn't create any files for these types of devices. So you have to mknod the device file yourself, and finding the right major/minor numbers to do that is a time consuming goose chase. I did manage to figure it out once, after lots of frustration, with Mandrake 8.0. But when I installed 8.1, it was gone again. I gave up and now just use that device in Windows.
It's just a standards compliant usb storage device! It should be a no brainer for the OS to treat it the same as a CD or floppy drive.
I'm sure that through a little digging, troubleshooting and RTFM, I could have fixed some problems but I wasn't up for that, I was kinda lazy. I wanted to see how much was possible without having to make anything get too complicated during the install and VERY minor tweaking after everything boots fine.
One other thing I noticed was the occasional mouse lockup (ps2, old m$ 2 button). There was one time, after installation, that it seemed as if everything froze and I managed to get to a konsole (after killing the x server) to make the system halt.
My final impression was that I've seen better (and worse) releases by mandrake before. Unfortunately, most of the improved (slightly) things were in the retail package. Improved meaning: bugs. I've also experienced really wierd things like the download version would install right but the retail package wouldn't and the other way around. I've also seen the powerpack (deluxe) version not work but the regular version (retail) worked. AND they same thing in reverse, regular didn't but deluxe did. I thought that there might be some consistency between packages but I guess I just may have found some snafu or something.
All easy - no problem - real pretty - it works
Posted by: Anonymous Coward on October 02, 2002 10:26 PMinstalled keramik and liquid (can't decide- although i use keramik window decoration because its the finest on any platform). Transparent menus, OpenOffice works great, mozilla speed improved, konqueor sped up -really no problems yet that I can report.
I first tried linux with the dos tryout verrsion (winlinux2000?) and then tried corel and redhat neither would install, then downloaded the Mandrake tree and used a hard disk install and . . well I like it, it likes me.
Re:All easy - no problem - real pretty - it works
Posted by: Anonymous Coward on October 03, 2002 04:36 AMRe:All easy - no problem - real pretty - it works
Posted by: Anonymous Coward on October 05, 2002 02:36 AMNothing special but it just keeps on running running running... I working on 12 continous days up now...
11 Days 20:53 to be exact... In Windows 1 hour used to be a challenge....
MarkP
Re:All easy - no problem - real pretty - it works
Posted by: Anonymous Coward on October 11, 2002 05:21 PMDeepak
deepak220@hotmail.com
I still like Mandrake 9. It's loaded on my T20 but I would still like to see things work better "out of the box", especially on a laptop.
That depends. With new computers or old? With laptops or full blown computers? And are we happy/content with an older OS without an outdated kernel and outdated hardware support?
If you are using newer hardware it would be flat out stupid to even try Mandrake 8.2 and limit yourself to an outdated kernel in an outdated OS.
A perfect example is the on-board Highpoint 372 "WinRAID" chipset on some motherboards. Try using Mandrake 8.2 with this Highpoint chip turned ON in bios. Kernel panic. You can't even install Mandrake 8.2 if HPT is ON in bios. Kernel panic. But Mandrake 9.0 works perfectly. I would never suggest an older distro to any new user simply because it can't handle the new hardware they might have.
Why was this test initiated on a laptop? I personally don't think that a laptop is a very good testbed for comparing linux distros. However, I still think Mandrake 9.0 has much better support for laptops than 8.2 ever had, particularly the display.
As for the missing Xkill icon, the command is xkill and the icon is still there - Applications -> Monitoring -> Xkill. I assume they hid it because new users didn't know how to stop it from closing their open windows. Regardless, I never used it much because half the time all it did was hide the window and left the app running in the background. Use CTRL+ESC for 100% accuracy.
I don't know... this review was a little disheartening. I tested all 7 pre-release versions of Mandrake 9.0 and any one of them could have single-handedly beaten Mandrake 8.2 to a pulp.
Sure you have to tweak it a little. Nobody likes defaults. And the plugins... most of plugins that were mentioned are NOT freely distributable under ANY terms, or they are proprietary with 65,000 word EULA's. And, just like our beloved Windows - they aren't included in the distribution. You are comparing a free OS to an 8,000 lb gorilla that finally decided to include their own plugins - but only for some stuff.
As for installing those plugins, it's no different in Windows NT or Windows 2000 Pro, or Windows XP Pro - only the administrator can do it normally. The same holds true for Linux.
I must agree that the install process is normally much simpler in Windows, but that goes back to the monopoly and that most companies have developed exclusively for Microsoft platforms for eons.
I don't expect brand new users to be able to install everything, it's just too overwhelming. But Mandrake 8.2 was no better, so that's not even an argument against Mandrake 9.0. At least Mandrake 9.0 finally ditched that crappy, buggy Netscape 4 and replaced it with a browser that actually works - Mozilla.
If you have a better overall experience with Mandrake 9.0 than Mandrake 8.2, then something is terribly wrong.
I would like to see a fair review using a normal computer instead of a laptop. Just remember that if you use an NVidia card, due to NVidia's Corps. "CLOSED" nature, the drivers are still proprietary and they have never attempted to make a nice installer for their drivers under Linux. Again, it boils down to the fact that most companies are only worried about Microsoft "ease of use" and compatibility.
Regardless. If you think 8.2 is better, that's fine. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I personally feel you reached that conclusion based on too many factors (laptop testbed, closed/proprietary plugins, etc) and 8.2 was no different in that light.
The bottom line is this: Mandrake 8.2 is no easier than 9.0, and Mandrake 8.2 is definitely NOT better than 9.0. The rest is up for you to decide. Do you want and older OS that only supports older hardware? Or do you want the newest OS possible AND support for all of your new hardware? You get a 100% STABLE OS either way, so it's your call.
Mandrake 9.0 is the first Linux distribution that I've ever tried and thought: "My God! They finally did it! Someone has finally created the first Linux distro ever that can honestly be considered a true 'Windows Killer'!!!".
If that's what you want, I offer you Mandrake 9.0 Windows Killer Edition (well, that's what I'm calling it heh)<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;)
A million CONGRATS to everyone at MandrakeSoft - YOU DID IT!!!<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)
A screenshot of my desktop is available here: http://www.sodpit.com/x/sgt-d.png
> If you have a better overall experience with Mandrake 9.0 than Mandrake 8.2, then something is terribly wrong.
I reworded that line at the last minute - it should have read:
If you *DON'T* have a better overall experience with Mandrake 9.0 than Mandrake 8.2, then something is terribly wrong.
Detailed instructions on how to get nvidia 3d drivers working are availible in the tutorial section of www.mandrakeusers.org
If you buy the boxed set you will get the nvidia 3d drivers installed for you. They just don't include the non-gpl type stuff on the free download version.
If you want to bitch about this i suggest you stick you head up you behind.
I really don't care if a newbie can't install plugins, root is for people who know what they are doing. I administer my installs for my workmates and friends untill they become able to do it themselves if ever. It is the same with windows the majority of win users can't do practically anything without help.
The default <A HREF="http://www.gnome.org/start/2.0/">GNOME2</a gnome.org> windowmanager (<A HREF="http://www.gnome.org/softwaremap/projects/metacity/">Metacity</a gnome.org>) has a built-in kill function--just click the window close button<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...
This will, of course, attempt to close the application properly but, if that doesn't work, it will usually bring up a "This application isn't responding" message which gives you the option to terminate the app with prejudice. It can take a few seconds for it to react, and it sometimes doesn't react at all, but that seems to be a relatively uncommon happening.
I have no idea if KDM offers similar functionality, but I wouldn't be surprised to find out it's been added, or soon will be, if it doesn't already.
I disagre. IME, the close rarely works. And I've rarely seen the "This app isn't responding message..."
Well, maybe it's a function of <A HREF="http://www.linux-mandrake.com/">Mandrake Linux 9.0</a linux-mandrake.com> then, but I've seen it quite a few times…
I do agree that it would be convenient to have those plugins though, so maybe they should have a program that downloads and installs the most common plugins for you, and place an icon for it on the desktop. Having a nicely marked place in the distro called "Download browser plugins" or something to that effect would be nice.
realise that Linux desktop success is about more than a nice interface, a easily configurable, easy to work system... If you expect that Linux will be able to succeed on those terms, you are most definately wrong. I will be quite honest,my *move* to Linux was influenced by my increasing hatred and disgust of an increasingly corrupt and disgusting company called MICRO$OFT, "whose" "operating system" (note use of inverted commas) came preinstalled on my system. This is a little issue that the US "Antitrust" cases in 1998 decided to overlook.. and four years o n, nothing has changed (now if Linux came preinstalled on mainstream OEMs systems (dell, compaq, gateway, etc.) Linux would most cerainly suffice.. its at a mature stage, and as long as the user hasn't used windows (or any other Manipulative Shit product for that matter) on their home computer if they had one before, they'll adopt very well to the system.. GUI, console, configurations, whatever.. they will aquire knowledge quickly from themselves). Now don't get me wrong, Linux is a fantastic OS, and the Open Source, GNU and GPL models are effective and admirable, but if you want to see Linux succeed, trying to get it to imitate Windows (if there wasn't a monopoly and denial of choice in the OEM market it would be different I know.. read above) will *NOT* work. You see, Linux is more than an operating system (until its used by workers in business (Linux is well ready and competant for this market, and workers couldn't care about the OS, plus the price (GPL=free) and the Open Source (GPL) model will appeal to bosses executives etc. [LIKELY] or until we have Linux preinstalled on OEM systems - WITHOUT Micor$oft VIruses (aka OS's), when choice and freedom is restored [VERY UNLIKELY] - unless the US government, who is now only facilitating their existance, power and illegal, anticompetitive policies, intervenes, listens to the real issues and acts on the real issues [VERY VERY VERY UNLIKELY].
No, Linux is about *education*. Educate people to educate themselves. I've learned about M$, Linux and Open Source through the internet. Which is why i think we should try to get Linux into schools, or at least inform them that competant, more educative products are available other than the M$ ones they've been bribed to install and "educate" their students with..
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OH and mods/censors: Please stop deleting my posts. Stop restraining free speech, I suggest you listen to these concerns. You may delete my posts, supress my opinion, but you cannot "delete" my opinion. I will continue with comments like this; it concerns myself and the GNU/Linux/Open Source community as a whole."
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Here's an reply to the comment of some corrupt VA$HAFTER/M$HAFTER-employee, trying to defend corrupt VA $HAFTWARE -- M$ even -- and trying to appear sincere and honest.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... dammit can't find it. va software, why do you arrange the articles and reports in such a messy and unarranged order?<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.. well if i find it, i'll post it
What? Envy of US? Hahahahahahahaha! And what exactly is there to envy? 100s of fat, stupid people walking around in the streets like penguins!
>transparent. I don't blame them;
Being a linux zealot I admit I am really jealous of international robbery, heavy protectionism, fraud, attacks to _utterly_ poor and weak countries (Afganistan, Iraq) and paying very little attention bo the real breaking of human rights all things like that.
Yes, there is nothing bad happening in any of the US allies... Turkey is a perfect democracy, for instance and now Pakistan seems to be one as well, as well as Saudi Arabia (they are US friends so nothing bad can nor will happen there)<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... What has happened and is happening in Central and South Americas has nothing to do with US government and US companies, of course. If only I had the power I would do all the good things US is doing right now. Everywhere. I am really jealous, I admit.
I use Mandrake at home, and scrapped Windows over a year ago. I'm very much pro-Linux and Anti-Microsoft, but that doesn't mean that I have to say that Linux is perfect.
But life is like linux - there is choice. and if you want to rant and rave, that is fine. good luck. if you want people to listen...maybe you should calm down a bit?
However, why isn't anyone questioning MS as to why their advertising on a site that encourages the development of software with "cancerous", "Communist", "Un-American", "IPR-undermining"(1) licenses?
If you want to do some good, this may be a good place to start.
=================================================<nobr>=<wbr></nobr>
1. This is my favorite attack on the GPL because it's a completely ignorant opinion. First of all, it makes the (fairly standard, unfortunately) assumption that "intellectual property rights" is about people making money through licensing -- but, is that what material property rights are about? No - making money is only a small part of property rights.
Also, neither the GPL nor the Free Software Philosophy is against intellectual property rights -- not really, anyway. Their against allowing the over-extension and abuse of any such rights. Whether there is a right to own software or not is really irrelevant when the issue at hand is whether allowing those rights is harmful. This is something RMS should have figured out early on.
Once again, a free system can regulate itself through pricing. Naw twas just a dream since we all know people would pay a half mil to say they got the saft from MicroSaft (pun intended)
LOL
His thoughts and paths in writing are so mangled, I can't even force myself to read all of it because topics are jumping around from sentence to sentence without a pattern that I can see other than random bitching.
Dude, if you hate everything and everyone so much and think that all is corrupt, then why don't you go set yourself on fire and put yourself out of your own misery!
Christ....
This is why they should make pot legal; too many uptight people in this world.
Well, I will say they have all right rights in the world to delete something they don't want on their server... If someone came and wrote something on the side of your house... would you not go and erase it or paint over it if you did not like what it said?
Plus, as you say... they have free speech too. Quit complaining you little baby.
Some people understand this, and some never will. Some understand that if they want their opinions to be received well, they should post under their real names or at least under consistent identities instead of using anonymity as a cloak.
And truly thoughtful people will organize their opinions (positive or negative) about Linux and Open Source into 600 - 1500 word essays and submit them as articles instead of posting them as (off-topic) comments attached to an article written by someone else.
- Robin
> more than a nice interface, a easily
> configurable, easy to work system
Your claims of "a easily configurable" is subjective.
For "newbies" full “Desktop” OS features is need(i.e. working multimedia desktop OS "out-of-the-box").
Users who use PCs as a tool (not some nerd toy) wouldn’t be tweaking their newly installed OS for instant usability. For some “newbies”, tweaking a newly installed OS equals hard work. The focus should be on making life easier not complicating it.
>Linux would most cerainly suffice.. its at a
>mature stage, and as long as the user hasn't
>used windows
Note that the article mentioned "Amiga", not just Windows.
Linux has yet to master full "featured multimedia desktop OS "out-of-the-box"".
- No, Linux is about *education*. Educate people to educate themselves.
That's drivel. The purpose of any operating system is allow a computer to operate. Period. Anything else is either add-on, or a political statement. Like yours.
- I've learned about M$, Linux and Open Source through the internet.
Well, there's your problem. Didn't you know that you should never believe what you read on the Internet? There's a bunch of drooling maniacs out here, easily spotted by their long, rambling diatribes against their enemies.
F#$% YOU PUSSY!
Working as a tech suport rep for a large ISP
I kinda believe that if is wasn't for Microsoft
or Apple, I wouldn't have a job. So, I can't bash
them too bad. I've had 1 call from a Linux user
in nine months (we get enough that we have a mailing list
to arrainge Linux callbacks).
Where would we all be today if it wasn't for Microsoft?
Better yet, who would have filled the void that
Microsoft filled? Would they have been better, or
worse?
I'm new to Linux... running Mandrake 8.2 on a p1 233
"beater box". M$ seems pretty serious about charging
for their product (ala WPA)... figured I better start
learning another OS.
parl
(Draknet) is still problematic.
I've tried LM 8.2 a while ago and found that the wizard all-in-one approach doesn't work if you have a more complex hardware. And I spent much too much time configuring a pcmcia ethernet connection fighting with Draknet.
The wizard should be split in 3 successive steps :
1) configuration of the hardware (modem, pcmcia ethernet, wireless, usb modem, etc.)
2) configuration of the ethernet interface (address, MTU, manually or automatically up, DHCP)
3) configuration of the network (routing, hosts, masquerading, etc.)
You should be able to run only one part of the wizard if needs be. And at the end of each step, it should give you a report so you can troubleshoot problems more easily.
I hope they will get it right for 9.1
it is very urgently
my email id bdvts@rediffmail.com.
I was less than pleased that it didn't include Abiword, because I like it and find it useful.
But the thing that is starting to bug me about Mandrake 9.0 is the behaviour of the cdrom driver. On my system it automatically ejects when you click on "eject" - duh - but it doesn't stop once it's out there, it immediately reverses direction and unless you're very quick, it takes the cdrom back into the case again. I don't know if it's a kde problem or a Mandrake problem, but it is definitely user-unfriendly, or downright user-hostile. It could definitely do with a bit more work.
My advice to all Unix newbies: learn, learn, learn and then choose an operating systems that works with your competence instead of covering for your incompetence.
Debian GNU/Linux is VERY user friendly, it just requires a competent user.
Maybe if you learned Windows from the Ground up you wouldnt be running Linux (hahahaha)
Anyway, I never used Linux before but I find it very easy, from install to super user (root) and navigation is very simple, I installed it like 10 times in a row to check out the install proccess and different features of the packages, I like it so much I am converting our windows Mail to a Linux mail server and I purchased the ProSuite Edition.
Happy Camper
face it, most users of computers can't and don't WANT to use a text-only system anymore.
most new users do NOT want to edit text files to configure their system.
what they want is something that works. period. out of the box, no tough questions asked, working systems is the deal.
now, if you, or any number of future "hardcore" linux users want to "start from the ground up" that's Great! more power too you, and hopefully a nice cusgy setup as sysadmin or programmer. but fo
The nice kill icon
Posted by: Anonymous Coward on October 02, 2002 07:18 PMCtr-Alt-Esc
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