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Red Hat 8 or SuSE 8.1 for the desktop user?
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January 06, 2003 (8:00:00 AM)
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- By Pete White -
As both operating systems get easier and easier for the desktop user, which is the best for the less experienced Linux user and why?
As both operating systems get easier and easier for the desktop user, which is the best for the less experienced Linux user and why?
I will be taking a quick look at both operating systems to find out which is easiest for the following:
- Getting a copy. <liInstallation.
- Configuring.
- General day to day use.
- Distributions website.
SuSE has never been as popular as Red Hat. However, in recent years SuSE has spent a lot of time and money developing its desktop side of the operating system. Getting a copy of SuSE is slightly harder then Red Hat because SuSE does not provide ISO images for its operating system, but you can do an FTP install or purchase the personal edition from Amazon.co.uk for 25:99 Pounds. The boxed set comes with CDs, a DVD, and a manual.
Here Red Hat 8 shines over SuSE, since many more people can get it by downloading ISO images from the website.
Installation of Red Hat is fairly painless. The installer takes you through a number of screens, each asking you what you want to do and providing a bit of simple help on the left hand side. In total I spent about 45 minutes installing Red Hat 8 compared to around 35 minutes for SuSE 8.1, but this depends on how much you install and the speed of your computer. Installing SuSE 8.1 was even easier then Red Hat 8, as I had a large Fat 32 partition, and the installer was able to automatically split this and create the partitions needed for SuSE. Of course I checked that it wasn't doing anything stupid, but it pretty much did what I would have done manually.
Next there is configuring the distribution after installation. Red Hat does this straight after installation and gives you options such as network and xfree86 configuration. Red Hat failed to pick up my monitor so it took me a while playing around in the console and xfree86config to get the right settings for it. While this would be easy for an experienced user I doubt that an inexperienced user would have goten this far. He or she would probably have booted back to Windows by now.
Configuration in SuSE I found easier because of SuSE's configuration program, YaST, which cut out a lot of the playing around in the console that an inexperienced user may have found daunting, and displayed an easy way of configuring hardware. While half the fun for many people is using the console to solve problems, some less tech-based people may find it unusual compared to Windows.
For configuration SuSE has to be the winner because of YaST. It not only makes things easy for the inexperienced, but can also save time and effort for the more experienced user. Sadly, neither distribution could properly configure my Conexant ADSL modem. SuSE detected the modem but could not configure it, while Red Hat could not detect it at all. (In the end, I had to set the modem up on a Windows 2000 machine, then access the Internet through the network)
Red Hat has good support for both KDE and Gnome, which is good because like many people I like using KDE but also like to use programs for Gnome such as Evolution and Gimp. SuSE's support for Gnome is not as good, and Evolution crashed when I was trying to install it in SuSE. I noticed that both distributions had poor font support. Sometimes I could be using Mozilla and I would have to squint to read the text. This seemed slightly worse in SuSE, especially when web browsing and word processing.
After a quick download from Nvidia I had Unreal Tournament 2003 playing nicely in both SuSE 8.1 and Red Hat 8. Hopefully, in the future more games will come with Linux installers.
My pick
It was hard to pick a winner for day to day use because both distributions did pretty much the same, but Red Hat won, for me, because of better Gnome support.
One of the important parts of a distribution package is they support and help you can find on the the distribution's Web site.
Redhat.com has an extensive support library covering all features from installation to configuring to troubleshooting. SuSE.com has a much smaller support area, and I was more disappointed by what the site what had to offer,but this may be because of the way SuSE is distributed compared to Red Hat.
Overall, despite my personal preference for Red Hat's Gnome support, I think SuSE 8.1 is slightly better for the inexperienced because of its simple installation, stylish graphics and simplicity of configuration.
SuSE seems more geared to the desktop market than Red Hat at the moment. But both distributions are making it a lot easier for people to convert from Windows to Linux.
This article was contributed by a NewsForge reader. The opinions it contains are strictly those held by its author, and may not be the same as those held by OSDN management. The author is the sole copyright holder, and should be contacted directly for information about republication. We welcome contributions from anyone who deals with Linux and Open Source at any level, whether as a corporate officer; as a programmer or sysadmin; or as a home/office desktop user. If you would like to write one, please email editors@newsforge.com.
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I've been using Linux as my OS of Choice since 1997, and At the moment, I'll use ANYTHING but RH as my desktop. I have 8 computers here, and use Suse (which is my primary desktop), Xandros (which my wife uses and loves), Plain Debian, Mandrake 9 (which I love as well), and I even have NetBSD and Solaris. RedHat is marketed and sold primarily as a server OS, but in my opinion, Debian is better at being a server. The joys of apt-get update! For those who don't know, Xandros is a Debian-based distro, and the price is worth it for the CodeWeavers's Office alone!
This person probably works for either Microsoft (most likely -- judging by the "divide and conquer" tone) or a competing distribution. If you like the article, I would advise following a similar course. In fact, there are some excellent desktop-oriented distributions that you can download for free. The easiest to use would likely be Lycoris, Red Hat, and Mandrake. The latter two include GNOME as well as KDE. In addition, they tend to include both server and desktop packages, while Lycoris is KDE-only, more desktop oriented, and is thinner on applications. But it probably installs faster! Or, go with something completely off-the-wall like ELX (but don't expect the level of support to be as deep).
You may find out more about various distributions at:
http://www.distrowatch.com/
Then download them from:
http://www.linuxiso.org/
Then, leave the polemics to the professors, their students, Microsoft employees, and the underemployed while you make your exciting initial Linux discoveries. If you find one you like, purchase an "official" copy, when you have a chance. It's really pretty easy (usually) and can be a lot of fun.
You may find out more about various distributions at:
http://www.distrowatch.com/
Then download them from:
http://www.linuxiso.org/
Then, leave the polemics to the professors, their students, Microsoft employees, and the underemployed while you make your exciting initial Linux discoveries. If you find one you like, purchase an "official" copy, when you have a chance. It's really pretty easy (usually) and can be a lot of fun.
> This person probably works for either
> Microsoft (most likely -- judging by the
> "divide and conquer" tone) or a competing > distribution.
No, definately I don't work for Microsoft. And I doubt that Microsoft eployees would spent so much time in either GNOME or KDE or could even come up with so much indepth details and proven Links. God gave you brain and eyes to read Links don't you ? These obvious issues within GNOME are all proveable so stop acting like a fool.
> Microsoft (most likely -- judging by the
> "divide and conquer" tone) or a competing > distribution.
No, definately I don't work for Microsoft. And I doubt that Microsoft eployees would spent so much time in either GNOME or KDE or could even come up with so much indepth details and proven Links. God gave you brain and eyes to read Links don't you ? These obvious issues within GNOME are all proveable so stop acting like a fool.
So, Microsoft hires no developers? Microsoft has no one capable of reading and participating in Open Source forums? And, Microsoft would not be interested in taking a disagreement within the Open Source community to fan the flames?
Get real. Microsoft's entire business model is at stake. Everything that you're doing tears at vital Open Source projects and, as a result, makes Microsoft look more attractive to the uninitiated.
Go back to Redmond.
Get real. Microsoft's entire business model is at stake. Everything that you're doing tears at vital Open Source projects and, as a result, makes Microsoft look more attractive to the uninitiated.
Go back to Redmond.
Sorry, you're right. I should have read your links. In doing so, some things became obvious:
1. GNOME is looking for a way to sustain the growth of the project by catering to business customers. (Gosh! That's just terrible! What of the poor college sophomore who wants to tweak Enlightenment for and entire evening, then post his prescious screenshots for all the world to adore?)
2. Your links suck. A follow up post on your GNOME user's board seems to agree. They point to more of your rants, not useful information.
3. You don't deny that you work for another Linux distribution. Okay, so you don't work for Microsoft, but with these kinds of inflammatory posts, you might as well try to collect a check from them, too.
4. The nurse on-duty is not very attentive. Now, you aren't even supposed to be using that computer, are you?
1. GNOME is looking for a way to sustain the growth of the project by catering to business customers. (Gosh! That's just terrible! What of the poor college sophomore who wants to tweak Enlightenment for and entire evening, then post his prescious screenshots for all the world to adore?)
2. Your links suck. A follow up post on your GNOME user's board seems to agree. They point to more of your rants, not useful information.
3. You don't deny that you work for another Linux distribution. Okay, so you don't work for Microsoft, but with these kinds of inflammatory posts, you might as well try to collect a check from them, too.
4. The nurse on-duty is not very attentive. Now, you aren't even supposed to be using that computer, are you?
Please explain detailed what you mean with "They point to more of your rants" ? I was writing here only and pointed to some other Links that I found over time what's wrong with that ? Not to mention that many of the Links shown above are written by people spread on various countries over this globe.
I've been quite happily using Linux on my workstations since 1998. In 2000, I found the Linux distrobutions (RedHat, Mandrake, and SuSe) so much easier to use and especially easier to maintain than Windows, that in the autumn of 2000 I finally wiped the last Windows installation from my home computers.
Linux, in my experience, is easier, faster, more secure, more stable than Windows. Easier is subjective, but increasing numbers of non-techies are coming to the same conclusion based on their own experiences. Faster, more secure, and more stable are established facts. By the way, why is it that Microsoft's new license prohibits the publication of benchmarks?<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;) Have they something to hide
If you need even easier or are still dependent on Illustrator, Photoshop, Quark, then I recommend OS X. Macintoshes are quite affordable these days and OS X gives you the best of both the Macintosh interface and UNIX - easy to use, yet fast, stable, powerful, and easy to maintain.
I'm just of the opinion that linux is the killer app if you want to run a web server or a similar use - stick with windows if you want to run a computer that people actually use directly.
Don't want to start a fight, but Windows is top for a very good reason (and it's not Bill's ruthless nature)
Don't want to start a fight, but Windows is top for a very good reason (and it's not Bill's ruthless nature)
Re:Yep! NOPE! foop dip spell that "(spit)dip"
Posted by: Anonymous Coward on January 08, 2003 06:16 AM
windows is "tops" because you cant buy a box without it. But the code sucks, your privacy disappears and it crashes all the time - - - -everyone knows this. __Everyone__ LOokit NWNights- and sooon all games will be written for linux at the same time as other os's and theN bill will suck cheese cause the actuall decsider in os choice chooses the open free private won't crash os - the 13 to 19 year olds who make all decsions in the house HOUSSSSSSSSSSSSE
Re:Yep! NOPE! foop dip spell that "(spit)dip"
Posted by: Anonymous Coward on January 08, 2003 06:29 AM
Stop talking like a dumbass Windows is right now far superior as Desktop. All drivers come out on Windows FIRST, all Games come out on Windows FIRST, the overall usability is still on Windows. Not Like on Linux where you need to setup all shit again as soon as you update some freaking shit (I don't use a distro so this is more expert blubbering). All this is not required on Windows.
What's the reason Windows is "better"?
This gent talks too much. Like a Lusr cares about details except when they bite his azz. Trash. The box better kiss it's own butt and work first time. Period. RedHat_8 damned near just works out-of-the-CD. I'm NO RedHat fan ( WinME is my fav ) but I keep a modest P4 *nix box just to know what's happening. What happened with RedHat_8 was the pieces just dropped in. First hardware<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... WD, Mx400, USR_56, 2940_SCSI+drives, usb_ZIP<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... RedHat sucked 'em up. Gotta scr*w with FSTAB a bit who can't? Then proggies<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... Privoxy, F-Prot, RP, AbiWord, Opera_L, Grass5 and even Monkeybrain Ximian(?) and Galeon (damnedfast!!) say nothing of the OS updates. Surprised hell outa me. Too bad about midi & mp3, but weenies might figure 'em out. Sure I paid for RedHat_8 and will do so again. As for SusE-the-*itch & KDE? Pure bloatwear<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... sit on it.
Maybe you are willing to phrase 2 sentences correctly next time so people may be able to understand what you want to explain.
Sorry but there went a little mistake in my last post there should be a link showing you the Windows Registry system for GNOME please <A HREF="http://gnomesupport.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1410">click here</a gnomesupport.org> and probably the official site <A HREF="http://www.gnome.org/projects/gconf/">here</a gnome.org> which contains detailed information about GConf they actually use the terms of Windows-Registry like system here.
I like that everyone makes their own REAL opinion about this in case you never heard about all the issues or problems that comes with it. Regardless if some people (mainly GNOME zealots) thinks that many of these issues are rants. You can easily verify these issues on your own regardless what other people think. It's hard nowadays to get objective feedback which reflect the truth since GNOME is often sold to you as something that could easily compete with Windows9x etc. but thats definately not the case.
I like that everyone makes their own REAL opinion about this in case you never heard about all the issues or problems that comes with it. Regardless if some people (mainly GNOME zealots) thinks that many of these issues are rants. You can easily verify these issues on your own regardless what other people think. It's hard nowadays to get objective feedback which reflect the truth since GNOME is often sold to you as something that could easily compete with Windows9x etc. but thats definately not the case.
Whats wrong with GConf? Its one of my favorite parts of GNOME. If you want to make some kind of technical argument here you'll have to do better than "OMG its the Windows registry, I have no idea what I'm talking about!!!"
Weren't there enough Links for you to read in the first 2 comments ? It's explained over and over again.
- Issues with Schemas,
- Issues when mounting over NFS,
- Issues with replacing broken keys with default ones,
- Nightmare for many programmers,
- Running as deamon
and and and.
Please read the Links.
- Issues with Schemas,
- Issues when mounting over NFS,
- Issues with replacing broken keys with default ones,
- Nightmare for many programmers,
- Running as deamon
and and and.
Please read the Links.
- Issues with Schemas,
There was some vague discussion of how the schema system was slightly ugly but it wasnt a real "issue" as in a bug or design flaw.
- Issues when mounting over NFS,
- Issues with replacing broken keys with default ones,
Which are? I searched in the links you gave and found no mention of these.
- Nightmare for many programmers,
I've written programs using GConf. As C APIs go its probably one of the nicest libraries I've used - inredibly simple, extensible and flexible.
- Running as deamon
Which is a problem how?
There was some vague discussion of how the schema system was slightly ugly but it wasnt a real "issue" as in a bug or design flaw.
- Issues when mounting over NFS,
- Issues with replacing broken keys with default ones,
Which are? I searched in the links you gave and found no mention of these.
- Nightmare for many programmers,
I've written programs using GConf. As C APIs go its probably one of the nicest libraries I've used - inredibly simple, extensible and flexible.
- Running as deamon
Which is a problem how?
> > - Issues when mounting over NFS,
> > - Issues with replacing broken keys with
> > default ones,
> Which are? I searched in the links you
> gave and found no mention of these.
It's obvious now that you haven't looked at these links specially the 'why gconf' one. end of communication.
> > - Issues with replacing broken keys with
> > default ones,
> Which are? I searched in the links you
> gave and found no mention of these.
It's obvious now that you haven't looked at these links specially the 'why gconf' one. end of communication.
> It's obvious now that you haven't looked at these links specially the 'why gconf' one. end of communication.
There is one mention of NFS on page 5 of that thread and it isnt related to problems with Gconf using it.
There is one mention of NFS on page 5 of that thread and it isnt related to problems with Gconf using it.
NEVER EVER use, promote or install redhat!!! This company willingly sold out democracy (Taiwan vs China issue) for dollars, they are evil!
They have also done some other unethical stuff, for example hijacking great bridge's software and knowingly driving them out of business.
There are lots of other good distribution (including suse), there is no need to support tyranny.
They have also done some other unethical stuff, for example hijacking great bridge's software and knowingly driving them out of business.
There are lots of other good distribution (including suse), there is no need to support tyranny.
Erm... Uh huh...
Like Microsoft is any better? Like McDonalds is any better? Like NIKE is any better?
Yet will still purchase their products.
Like Microsoft is any better? Like McDonalds is any better? Like NIKE is any better?
Yet will still purchase their products.
Hello, I'm not the initial poster of this comment but I agree to you Microsoft Windows is superior AND better than RedHat 8.x and GNOME I say this because I belive in what I write regardless the fact that I'm a Linux user for many years now. It's a lie if you belive that Microsoft Windows is worse.
Experts on Linux say that RedHat simply sucks but Newbies and JOE USER from Windows prefer RedHat. But the common acceptance of the majority of Linux users is NOT accepting RedHat. Debian, Gentoo, Suse, Mandrake are prefered Distros for many users.
Experts on Linux say that RedHat simply sucks but Newbies and JOE USER from Windows prefer RedHat. But the common acceptance of the majority of Linux users is NOT accepting RedHat. Debian, Gentoo, Suse, Mandrake are prefered Distros for many users.
I do Like linux too where is your point ? The initial reply was comparing RedHat Linux as Desktop OS vs. Windows as Desktop OS and therefore I vote for Windows as the winner because it doesn't use the sucking GNOME crap which claims to be as good as at least Windows 9x which is not the case.
"Like Microsoft is any better?"
Actually, yes they are. Microsoft has, despite much pressure by the dictatorship in China, refused to remove Taiwans independant status. So have also HP for example who had to pay fines because they listed Taiwan as independant and refused to change it.
Check out the country-list in any windows version.
Defending basic democratic values and rights is everyones moral obligation.
Actually, yes they are. Microsoft has, despite much pressure by the dictatorship in China, refused to remove Taiwans independant status. So have also HP for example who had to pay fines because they listed Taiwan as independant and refused to change it.
Check out the country-list in any windows version.
Defending basic democratic values and rights is everyones moral obligation.
Are we going to judge distros on their merits or over irrelevant political considerations? Oh, wait; you already made your decision didn't you. Schmuck.
of course they will, this is the open source club, remember? these people are neo-socialists.
take communists and hippies, mix 'em together, and you get these people. they can never use what is best for the job, instead they must allow politics to decide for them,
and they wonder why they're mostly unemployed....
take communists and hippies, mix 'em together, and you get these people. they can never use what is best for the job, instead they must allow politics to decide for them,
and they wonder why they're mostly unemployed....
neo-socialists? communists and hippies? Who are you? McCarthy or J.E. Hoover - reincarnated?
Didn't realize that choosing an operating environment designed and built *by the people, and for the people, who use it* was a communist or neo-socialist activity. If so, then call me what ever floats your isolationist, social-darwinist, 'big brother' rowboat...
I personally have and will choose to have the stability, *freedom*, and *CHOICE* that I have with opensource and GNU/Linux any day.
Sincerely,
"A well-employed All-American OpenSource Fanatic"
PS: Flower Power Rules man!<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-)
Didn't realize that choosing an operating environment designed and built *by the people, and for the people, who use it* was a communist or neo-socialist activity. If so, then call me what ever floats your isolationist, social-darwinist, 'big brother' rowboat...
I personally have and will choose to have the stability, *freedom*, and *CHOICE* that I have with opensource and GNU/Linux any day.
Sincerely,
"A well-employed All-American OpenSource Fanatic"
PS: Flower Power Rules man!<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-)
What if "the job" changes? Ignoring licensing, source availability, and politics when choosing "the best tool" isn't the pragmatic method of choosing, it's the inept fucking retarded method.
-Smack
-Smack
Life IS change, and the job market is no expection... And the IFR (inept fucking retarded) method conducted while wearing blindfolds is your alternative. As far as politics and the IFR method connection goes, well I'm just not touching that one....
"Are we going to judge distros on their merits or over irrelevant political considerations?"
So you think basic rights like democracy are irrelevant?
We are not talking about spoiled children complaining about how their "rights" are beeing violated when they are not allowed to warez mp3's, we are talking about serious human rights violations.
So you think basic rights like democracy are irrelevant?
We are not talking about spoiled children complaining about how their "rights" are beeing violated when they are not allowed to warez mp3's, we are talking about serious human rights violations.
well said
rpm --rebuild http://location/of/kernel.src.rpm
One of these two will hose your system, if you can get it to actually build. The other just builds the RPM.
Happy re-installing.
One of these two will hose your system, if you can get it to actually build. The other just builds the RPM.
Happy re-installing.
Right, I also heard that RedHat is totally incompatible to other standardized Linux distributions. I heard about issues when you like to compile vanilla sourcecodes because RedHat totally changed a lot of structures and other stuff which fails to compile for other people. Let me point you to Mosfet a long year KDE contributor and wise person that made a lot of good contribution and soul behind many inventations behind KDE. Read <A HREF="http://www.mosfet.org/noredhat.html">his comments</a mosfet.org> regarding RedHat.
Citing mosfet.org as a source of information is as reliable as the government saying it will lower taxes next year...
God, I heard your opinion and respect it. Regardless if you don't like Mosfet or not I at least totally share his opinion as I did before he wrote his comment on his page. I was posting his page because I couldn't have written it better than him. His and my opinion weights as much as everyones else opinion.
Mosfet is a talented crackpot. Liquid is beautiful. His web page and it's content ain't.
Well you can't measure each human on this globe to fit exactly your vision of a human. There are a lot of individuals outside. We need to learn to respect all of them regardless of what crackheads they are. These people have all rights to be respected correctly.
Mandrake Linux's business model is to beg for money.
Mandrake Linux is about to go out of business.
Mandrake Linux will be gone in two year.
Mandrake Linux is about to go out of business.
Mandrake Linux will be gone in two year.
Mandrake is not begging for money. Mandrake
Club is growing with thousands of people
joining and decided what direction we want
the distro to take.
Mandrake will not go out of business if the
people stand up for Mandrake.
Mandrake is Linux for the people.
if u stop for a moment and realize what
red hate has done. they screwed over kde
just because they could do it. if u support
red hat u are not supporting freedom.
i do find this interesting though. so many
people leave microsoft because they want
some freedom and then they go and support
a distro like red hat which is not supporting
freedom but supporting only themselves.
i use kde as my desktop. i respect those that
choose gnome of something else. red hat does
not do this.
u of can be a fan of red hat if u wish. but
at least stop for a moment and think about it.
Mandrake is for the people. red hat is for themselves. Mandrake has kde and gnome and
some other desktops. u can decide for yourself.
many people say they are sick of people talking
about red hat and what they did, well people
need to talk about it. Linux is about freedom
and it seems that just because red hat is the
biggest and they show they can be the bully
that they are attracting a lot of people because
of this. think about that for a moment.
the distro that in some ways show abusive behavior towards other distros is the distro
that many people are flocking to. that should
tell u something about people in general.
I recently switched from Windows to using Linux on my desktop. Its a very nice system, impressive considering it was designed by amateur hackers around the world. However, I think the fact that there are multiple distributions of Linux is one of the biggest factors hindering its success.
When you write software for Windows, you only have to target one system. If you want to write Linux software you have to target at least five to get all the common distros, and even then it will never be perfect. This kind of fragmentation is disastrous. I installed SuSE the other week after reccommendation from a fellow user but found none of my Redhat packages would install.
As Redhat is the most common distro, I suggest that we as users should all use it so that it can become the one distro and the others will be forced to either use its standards or die. I know this sounds rather drastic, but if you want Open Source to succeed you will do this. It is vital that companies have a single standard system they can target.
When you write software for Windows, you only have to target one system. If you want to write Linux software you have to target at least five to get all the common distros, and even then it will never be perfect. This kind of fragmentation is disastrous. I installed SuSE the other week after reccommendation from a fellow user but found none of my Redhat packages would install.
As Redhat is the most common distro, I suggest that we as users should all use it so that it can become the one distro and the others will be forced to either use its standards or die. I know this sounds rather drastic, but if you want Open Source to succeed you will do this. It is vital that companies have a single standard system they can target.
> As Redhat is the most common distro, I
> suggest that we as users should all use it
> so that it can become the one distro and
> the others will be forced to either use its
> standards or die.
No this is exactly the oposite.
- Suse,
- Mandrake,
- Connectiva,
- YellowDog,
- Debian
and some more distros signed the LHS standard and packaging standards and follow them exactly by offering one unified system. The problem is REDHAT is dancing out of bounds here with their own stuff. REDHAT is nearly inconsistent to everything by going their own way. RedHat is the distro which is NOT used most by Linux zealots. It's the newcommers System for people like you who recently switched from Windows to Linux. Experts avoid using RedHat because of all the issues. Read the Mosfet link above. The problem here is that much replies come from people that used to use Windows and expect Linux to work as Windows these people are hyping RedHat in all hypes and make it look better than it is in reality.
> suggest that we as users should all use it
> so that it can become the one distro and
> the others will be forced to either use its
> standards or die.
No this is exactly the oposite.
- Suse,
- Mandrake,
- Connectiva,
- YellowDog,
- Debian
and some more distros signed the LHS standard and packaging standards and follow them exactly by offering one unified system. The problem is REDHAT is dancing out of bounds here with their own stuff. REDHAT is nearly inconsistent to everything by going their own way. RedHat is the distro which is NOT used most by Linux zealots. It's the newcommers System for people like you who recently switched from Windows to Linux. Experts avoid using RedHat because of all the issues. Read the Mosfet link above. The problem here is that much replies come from people that used to use Windows and expect Linux to work as Windows these people are hyping RedHat in all hypes and make it look better than it is in reality.
It's funny that all of the distributions that you mention with the single exception of Debian use RPM as their package management system. What does RPM stand for? Red Hat Package Manager. Yup, Red Had developed the package management system and allowed all of the others to use it.
I submit that without Red Hat innovation many of the others would not be nearly as far along as they are. In fact Mandrake took it one step farther at the beginning and just took a copy of Red Hat and modified it slightly to make their own distribution.
I submit that without Red Hat innovation many of the others would not be nearly as far along as they are. In fact Mandrake took it one step farther at the beginning and just took a copy of Red Hat and modified it slightly to make their own distribution.
Yes and ? please make your point. RPM was made back in early days and a couple of distributions agreed upon it. This doesn't excuse that RedHat is going their own way nowadays. Using their Packagemanager has nothing to do with the Road that RedHat is going these days.
What road is that? I find Red Hat 8.0 to be the biggest leap ahead that they have ever made in a distribution upgrade. And I have been using Red Hat since before version 3.0. I also use and like other distributions. I think Red Hat is the best "does all" distribribution out and support for Red Hat is unmatched.
Well I usually ask myself why I even start a discussion with RedHat users you can't convince them in any ways.
<A HREF="http://www.mosfet.org/noredhat.html">Link</a mosfet.org>
<A HREF="http://gnomesupport.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1387">Link</a gnomesupport.org>
read that.
<A HREF="http://www.mosfet.org/noredhat.html">Link</a mosfet.org>
<A HREF="http://gnomesupport.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1387">Link</a gnomesupport.org>
read that.
With all due respect, your comments show that you haven't yet learned the real advantages of Linux. Linux is vastly more versatile than windows is. Multiple distributions are only one part of it. You can configure your system in so many different ways, and you can have almost any sort of GUI that you want (see my remarks in "so what? plus some observations" below). You can have different file systems, different boot managers, different printer control systems, different anything, really.
If you subtract all this optionality from Linux, you are left with a pale shadow of the real thing. That would be Lindows, I suppose.
If you subtract all this optionality from Linux, you are left with a pale shadow of the real thing. That would be Lindows, I suppose.
not to sound like a troll, but - you Mr. Clown don't understand the Linux movement. In my understanding, the movement is about a lot of things, but isn't about making a Microsoft. If you want Microsoft, go use Microsoft. Opem Source is surviving well without bozos like you making proclaimations like the ones in your post.
So what? This was not very informative.
I don't agree with some observations here that Linux "is not a desk top OS." Linux is what you make of it, and certainly, the folks at KDE have made an excellent desktop. Personally, I prefer the KDE desktop to that of windows (I don't have any experience with the Gnome desktop, but I have tried Galeon and I much prefer Konqueror). One reason KDE is better is that Konqueror by itself is vastly more versatile, and easy to use, than IE plus the desktop explorer.
The nice thing about Linux, of course, is that you have two integrated desktops, plus a host of window managers, to choose from. I do think that for ease of use and speed of response, the BeOS GUI beats (or beat, past tense) both KDE and Windows. Unfortunately, there was never much software for it. If you check out www.cosmoe.com, you will find that someone is trying to build a BeOS-type interface for Linux. I wish him good luck.
Personally, I am enormously happy with Ion, which is a totally different kind of gui. Its main advantages are (1) that I never have to reach for the mouse and (2) that it actually manages the windows, instead of making me manage them. I simply do not need all the little bells and whistles that most people think are so nice about windows and KDE, nor do I need the drag that they impose on my cpu.
I don't agree with some observations here that Linux "is not a desk top OS." Linux is what you make of it, and certainly, the folks at KDE have made an excellent desktop. Personally, I prefer the KDE desktop to that of windows (I don't have any experience with the Gnome desktop, but I have tried Galeon and I much prefer Konqueror). One reason KDE is better is that Konqueror by itself is vastly more versatile, and easy to use, than IE plus the desktop explorer.
The nice thing about Linux, of course, is that you have two integrated desktops, plus a host of window managers, to choose from. I do think that for ease of use and speed of response, the BeOS GUI beats (or beat, past tense) both KDE and Windows. Unfortunately, there was never much software for it. If you check out www.cosmoe.com, you will find that someone is trying to build a BeOS-type interface for Linux. I wish him good luck.
Personally, I am enormously happy with Ion, which is a totally different kind of gui. Its main advantages are (1) that I never have to reach for the mouse and (2) that it actually manages the windows, instead of making me manage them. I simply do not need all the little bells and whistles that most people think are so nice about windows and KDE, nor do I need the drag that they impose on my cpu.
There is one point that people fail to understand. Whenever people write 'Linux is NOT a DESKTOP OS' then they usually talk about the bottom Layer e.g. configuration, a lot of tweaking with the hand and all the fun you have by customizing your System.
Whenever people talk about 'Linux is not ready for the Desktop' then they in general mean that they like Linux to mature into something Windows like e.g. the whole bottom layer should totally disappear. Actually the bottom layer is that what Linux is in general what the purpose of a Unix like System is. Companies such as RedHat and the GNOME people want to completely turn Linux into some Desktop OS they are trying hard to get all the bottom Layer away over time and make Linux to start suck bad ass. That's what they are trying, what their intention is and what they actually doing.
If you use Linux as Desktop OS then it's ok you install KDE ontop of Linux and use it but still know that the core bottom Layer is untouched and stays in the philosophy of Unix.
KDE is respecting Linux and Unix, they bring the Desktop to Linux and Unix. They honour and respect the fact that Linux should stay as it was meant to be a cool Experts System while on the other hand they offer a cool Desktop which is as mature as Windows.
GNOME is disrespecting Linux and Unix, they are trying to bring Linux and Unix to the Desktop. Instead getting their Desktop on Linux their primary goal is to change all stuff within Linux to suit the needs of GNOME. If it goes for them then they would have re-written Linux and everything else only to fulfill the needs of their Desktop. See what RedHat is trying.
Whenever people talk about 'Linux is not ready for the Desktop' then they in general mean that they like Linux to mature into something Windows like e.g. the whole bottom layer should totally disappear. Actually the bottom layer is that what Linux is in general what the purpose of a Unix like System is. Companies such as RedHat and the GNOME people want to completely turn Linux into some Desktop OS they are trying hard to get all the bottom Layer away over time and make Linux to start suck bad ass. That's what they are trying, what their intention is and what they actually doing.
If you use Linux as Desktop OS then it's ok you install KDE ontop of Linux and use it but still know that the core bottom Layer is untouched and stays in the philosophy of Unix.
KDE is respecting Linux and Unix, they bring the Desktop to Linux and Unix. They honour and respect the fact that Linux should stay as it was meant to be a cool Experts System while on the other hand they offer a cool Desktop which is as mature as Windows.
GNOME is disrespecting Linux and Unix, they are trying to bring Linux and Unix to the Desktop. Instead getting their Desktop on Linux their primary goal is to change all stuff within Linux to suit the needs of GNOME. If it goes for them then they would have re-written Linux and everything else only to fulfill the needs of their Desktop. See what RedHat is trying.
It really is ironic GNOME is a GNU/Free Software project - GNU Network Orientated Model Enviroment. Speak up, Stallman!
I think GNOME needs some serious rethinking and realignment. It has potential. All those corrupt Ximian developers need to GO. Look at GNOME at 1.4 (what I'm using now), and develop from there. 2.0 really fucked things over it was so backward.
I think GNOME needs some serious rethinking and realignment. It has potential. All those corrupt Ximian developers need to GO. Look at GNOME at 1.4 (what I'm using now), and develop from there. 2.0 really fucked things over it was so backward.
Exactly. I totally agree to you. Although I have to admit that GNOME 2.0 from a developmentplattform is quite cool but the results you as user see is quite crap e.g. a bunch of things they implemented was the worst nightmare ever e.g. Swapping Buttons as in MacOS-X and therefore breaking consistency on all applications, the GConf Windows Registry like implementation and finally Simplifying everything for JOE DUMB EX-MICROSOFT USER made me personally go away from GNOME. I don't plan or intend using GNOME anytime soon anymore until they realize that their new target sucks ass. Please read <A HREF="http://gnomesupport.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1387">this comment</a gnomesupport.org> and then read the reply to it from one of the GERMAN Gnome section members who does translations and maintains the german page at <A HREF="http://gnomesupport.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=7703#7703">this link</a gnomesupport.org>. If they don't change their target really quick then it's the end of GNOME regardless for it being GPL or LGPL. Because everyone looses respect to them.
For those of you who have chosen Red Hat I have written a few tips (tutorials) for some items you may be interested in:
<A HREF="http://voidmain.kicks-ass.net/redhat/">Void's Red Hat Tips</a kicks-ass.net>
I like several distributions of Linux and have been using Linux since before the distribution days (pre SLS/Slackware/SuSe). I have used Red Hat primarily since version 3.0 but I also like Debian and SuSe. I decided to pick one and start a distro specific tips section very recently. There is a boatload of general information out there that is not distribution specific which I believe makes life harder for n00bs. I want to try and get some simple step by step instructions for some of the harder tasks. If anyone would like to contribute to this I would appreciate it and suggest corrections to any existing information. Just let me know in my guestbook or email (found in the guestbook).
I didn't like the new Red Hat 8.0 for the first few days. In fact I despised it because I'm sort of a hard core UNIX guy and felt the new GUI was an insult. But I have since realized that this is the best distribution they have come out with yet and it is closer to the desktop than it has ever been. The future is very bright. Just a couple of cents...
<A HREF="http://voidmain.kicks-ass.net/redhat/">Void's Red Hat Tips</a kicks-ass.net>
I like several distributions of Linux and have been using Linux since before the distribution days (pre SLS/Slackware/SuSe). I have used Red Hat primarily since version 3.0 but I also like Debian and SuSe. I decided to pick one and start a distro specific tips section very recently. There is a boatload of general information out there that is not distribution specific which I believe makes life harder for n00bs. I want to try and get some simple step by step instructions for some of the harder tasks. If anyone would like to contribute to this I would appreciate it and suggest corrections to any existing information. Just let me know in my guestbook or email (found in the guestbook).
I didn't like the new Red Hat 8.0 for the first few days. In fact I despised it because I'm sort of a hard core UNIX guy and felt the new GUI was an insult. But I have since realized that this is the best distribution they have come out with yet and it is closer to the desktop than it has ever been. The future is very bright. Just a couple of cents...
Suse Stinks: It is not in spirit with the linux
Posted by: Anonymous Coward on January 07, 2003 03:55 AM
I started my linux experience with Suse 8.0 and I loved it. There was one problem though. LILO was so slow it was unbelievable. Also, I found out most software is written for Red Hat. I decided to stick with Suse, mainly because I love KDE. I "upgraded" to Suse 8.1 It was a big mistake. All of a sudden programs that had worked in 8.0 stopped working. It would not even monitor my laptop's batteries anymore as the pcmcia support was broken. Tho OpenOffice that came with 8.1 had a major bug that would not allow you to save any documents. I had to reinstall from the OO website. But here is where it gets worse. Suse has Linuks, a service that provides optimised rpms for the Suse distro. This is a necessity as nothing compiles on it anymore because everyone is writing for the real standard(Red Hat, not LSB). Suse, in their greater wisdom decided to stop adding any software after October 10. And if you want to get any compiled programs you have to go to apps.kde.com which is now a subscription service. Just like windows, you have to pay for you Suse programs now. On the positive side Grub was a lot faster than Lilo but the resultant chaos made it imperative for me to get rid of 8.1. I am now looking at Libranet. I can't live without my kde.
Re:Suse Stinks: It is not in spirit with the linux
Posted by: Anonymous Coward on January 07, 2003 04:07 AM
Dude that is absolute pure bullshit. And definately you obviously have NO clue at all otherwise you won't come up with so much written shit. I share options of others and I do respect them as long as they write true points but your information is comming out of nowhere and once again prooves how many clueless people use Linux nowadays.
First of all RedHat is NO standard and people who writes applications DON'T care for REDHAT at all. A lot of true programmers use systems such as Debian, LFS or Gentoo to write applications of their choice. To say the truth RedHat is one of THESE distributions that recently broke everything from first Bit till the end e.g. they broken GCC, GLIBC and a lot of other stuff in their recent distribution which makes RedHat the most incompatible System of programmers. Another point that is totally in antagonism is the fact that you love KDE and that it works best on REDHAT. This alone is the biggist anathonism itself since RedHat usually bashes and completely fucked up KDE in their recent distribution. Your comment is totally for the trash from the first written letter till the last one. To read more about RedHat's fuckup of KDE go <A HREF="http://www.mosfet.org/noredhat.html">to this link</a mosfet.org>. Next time investigate better before writing things like this.
First of all RedHat is NO standard and people who writes applications DON'T care for REDHAT at all. A lot of true programmers use systems such as Debian, LFS or Gentoo to write applications of their choice. To say the truth RedHat is one of THESE distributions that recently broke everything from first Bit till the end e.g. they broken GCC, GLIBC and a lot of other stuff in their recent distribution which makes RedHat the most incompatible System of programmers. Another point that is totally in antagonism is the fact that you love KDE and that it works best on REDHAT. This alone is the biggist anathonism itself since RedHat usually bashes and completely fucked up KDE in their recent distribution. Your comment is totally for the trash from the first written letter till the last one. To read more about RedHat's fuckup of KDE go <A HREF="http://www.mosfet.org/noredhat.html">to this link</a mosfet.org>. Next time investigate better before writing things like this.
Dude, lighten up a little. This guy just shared his experiences and who are you to tell him they didn't happen? And just for your information, Red Hat is just as much a standard as SuSe or any other distribution if not more so:
<A HREF="http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/021008/80315_1.html">LSB Certified (again)</a yahoo.com>
And I don't know how you can argue against there being more software targeted to Red Hat.
<A HREF="http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/021008/80315_1.html">LSB Certified (again)</a yahoo.com>
And I don't know how you can argue against there being more software targeted to Red Hat.
Well it's a big difference sharing opinions or simply writing wrong lines here which users new to linux at the end may belive.
> And I don't know how you can argue
> against there being more software
> targeted to Red Hat.
You can't even prove the opposite but it's a known fact that experts avoid using RedHat and most Software is written by experts so at the end it's obvious. But I accept the fact that some people even writes software using a broken RedHat system but these people can't be helped with.
> And I don't know how you can argue
> against there being more software
> targeted to Red Hat.
You can't even prove the opposite but it's a known fact that experts avoid using RedHat and most Software is written by experts so at the end it's obvious. But I accept the fact that some people even writes software using a broken RedHat system but these people can't be helped with.
What is broken about Red Hat? Of all of the distros I have used over the last 10 years Red Hat has always been the *least* broken. I am a professional software developer and I prefer Red Hat. In fact most of the professionals that I know in all categories (programming, hosting, etc) prefer Red Hat more than any other single distribution. The second most favored is probably Debian.
I can find 99% of the Linux applications in Red Hat RPM format. I can not say that for any other distribution. When I purchase Linux software such as Oracle I find that they target Red Hat.
Maybe you are referring to KDE and KDE developers (which isn't even Linux but I admit a very popular GUI). Is this what you are referring to? Are you one of those KDE people who have a big beef with Red Hat? If so I have to admit that I am somewhat with you on this one but it is only a small piece of the pie. I did prefer using KDE on the last couple of releases. It is an excellent desktop environment. One of the reasons I didn't like Red Hat 8.0 at first is because they messed with KDE. I decided to try out the GNOME/Bluecurve desktop for a period and found that it had less features but is easy to use and very pleasing to the eye.
If KDE is your sole complaint (which I believe it is) then you can always not install the stock KDE. But if KDE is your entire reason for selecting a Linux distribution and you don't know how to install the stock KDE then I would suggest you stick with a different distribution. But believe it or not there is life beyond KDE. GUI for me is not that important. I am just as happy with WindowMaker, Enlightenment, Lesstif, XFce, etc, etc.
I can find 99% of the Linux applications in Red Hat RPM format. I can not say that for any other distribution. When I purchase Linux software such as Oracle I find that they target Red Hat.
Maybe you are referring to KDE and KDE developers (which isn't even Linux but I admit a very popular GUI). Is this what you are referring to? Are you one of those KDE people who have a big beef with Red Hat? If so I have to admit that I am somewhat with you on this one but it is only a small piece of the pie. I did prefer using KDE on the last couple of releases. It is an excellent desktop environment. One of the reasons I didn't like Red Hat 8.0 at first is because they messed with KDE. I decided to try out the GNOME/Bluecurve desktop for a period and found that it had less features but is easy to use and very pleasing to the eye.
If KDE is your sole complaint (which I believe it is) then you can always not install the stock KDE. But if KDE is your entire reason for selecting a Linux distribution and you don't know how to install the stock KDE then I would suggest you stick with a different distribution. But believe it or not there is life beyond KDE. GUI for me is not that important. I am just as happy with WindowMaker, Enlightenment, Lesstif, XFce, etc, etc.
First of all I'm no KDE developer only to stop this assumption. On the otherhand I find 100% of the apps I need on <A HREF="http://fresmeatnet/">Freshmeat</a fresmeatnet> which is 1% more than RedHat offers. My complaint about RedHat in general is that their practices of how they trade stuff is unethical. Over the years RedHat matured into the Microsoft like company for Linux. Anyways I don't care for RedHat, what they do for Business. I only care about their attitude to the Linux philosophy of turning the philosophy of Linux into some sort of Windows Desktop like OS which they are trying with GNOME only to serve their stupid JOE USER customers.
Look, it's people like you that are keeping linux from taking over. That is a stupid, elitist attitude. RTFM. I did that, I went to support, and I went to various user sites. I hate MS with a passion but even I have to admit thay are better in this respect. I have had few problems installing software for Windows. I cannot say the same for linux. Suse went to lsb and then nothing would compile right anymore. All of the programs that worked in 8.0 would not even install in 8.1. I downloaded many programs from Sourceforge and Freshmeat as well as other sites. Programs that worked before, would not with 8.1. Red Hat IS THE STANDARD. Look on download sites. Most everything is geared towards RH or Mandrake. Look at Suse, all of its programs you have to buy now. Before you talk, look at the facts. It seems that some people here just need a company to hate. If not MS then RH. That is not logical and you are shooting linux in the foot with your attitude. You are not going to convert people to linux by keeping it unmanageable. That is why windows is winnig right now. Unlike you, many people have lives and would rather be typing their reports, briefs or whatever instead of going through the rigamarole one needs to do to install a linux program. That said, I believe linux has a great future once it stops this fratricide. The only thing wrong with linux is program installation and some users who seem to think a computer is just to be tweaked, not to be worked with.
I'll bet you beat your wife and kick your dog, too. Oh, wait, having a wife would require some social skills, which you obviously lack. And I suspect any self-respecting dog would run in the opposite direction as soon as s/he saw you.
Now having addressed the vitriol, I would like to say - as a Linux newbie - that most Linux veterans I have encountered on various mailing lists and discussion forums have been nothing like the previous poster. In fact, they have been very kind, very supportive, and very helpful. Because of them, I have great hope for the future of Linux on the desktop.
The previous poster takes the elistist view that those who can't or won't get their hands dirty should keep using Windows. To me, Linux is all about giving computer users choices, something Windows and Microsoft seeks to prevent. You are saying that, because some users are not as technical as you (e.g., don't know or use the command line), they do not deserve to have a choice. Linux is about choice, and anything that can be done to make Linux easier to consider as an option should be looked into.Linux is not simply about playing "Who is geekiest?"
Maybe we should gather together all Microsoft users and make them wear a big red "M" on their lapels and make them live in Windows concentration camps. Wait, better not give you any ideas.
Now having addressed the vitriol, I would like to say - as a Linux newbie - that most Linux veterans I have encountered on various mailing lists and discussion forums have been nothing like the previous poster. In fact, they have been very kind, very supportive, and very helpful. Because of them, I have great hope for the future of Linux on the desktop.
The previous poster takes the elistist view that those who can't or won't get their hands dirty should keep using Windows. To me, Linux is all about giving computer users choices, something Windows and Microsoft seeks to prevent. You are saying that, because some users are not as technical as you (e.g., don't know or use the command line), they do not deserve to have a choice. Linux is about choice, and anything that can be done to make Linux easier to consider as an option should be looked into.Linux is not simply about playing "Who is geekiest?"
Maybe we should gather together all Microsoft users and make them wear a big red "M" on their lapels and make them live in Windows concentration camps. Wait, better not give you any ideas.
Re:Suse Stinks: It is not in spirit with the linux
Posted by: Brian Masinick on January 08, 2003 01:18 AM
Personally I've not had too many problems with SuSE 8.1, but from the very moment that I first started to research about it, I've heard almost nothing but complaints about it, even from people who used to be SuSE bigots.
I find SuSE 8.1 to be quite usable, but I find nothing in it that I can't find elsewhere that better suits my needs. So I keep SuSE on one of my eight Linux partitions, but I don't use it very often. Instead, I use Lycoris Desktop/LX a lot, Libranet, Mandrake, and Red Hat to a somewhat lesser degree. I do my daily desktop chores on Lycoris Desktop/LX during the week, then I use Libranet, Mandrake, or Red Hat on the weekends. I tend to do my desktop work in Lycoris and my development or system work on Libranet.
If you're leaning toward Libranet, I highly recommend it to you!
I find SuSE 8.1 to be quite usable, but I find nothing in it that I can't find elsewhere that better suits my needs. So I keep SuSE on one of my eight Linux partitions, but I don't use it very often. Instead, I use Lycoris Desktop/LX a lot, Libranet, Mandrake, and Red Hat to a somewhat lesser degree. I do my daily desktop chores on Lycoris Desktop/LX during the week, then I use Libranet, Mandrake, or Red Hat on the weekends. I tend to do my desktop work in Lycoris and my development or system work on Libranet.
If you're leaning toward Libranet, I highly recommend it to you!
Re:Suse Stinks: It is not in spirit with the linux
Posted by: cornstalk on January 08, 2003 02:27 AM
I myself use SuSE only because I first bought it back when 6.4 was their latest. I liked the idea of having easy access to all that software that came with it. Plus back then, SuSE had perhaps the easiest install. Since then, I have stuck with SuSE only because it was convenient to do so.
Do I love it? No, but I doubt that I would love any distro. For the time being, I don't think that I have enough knowledge to install a source-based distribution like Gentoo. But I will probably get around to it someday, because I really like being in control of my system and I believe that Gentoo Linux offers the most flexibility in this regard.
Is SuSE's vaunted support so great? No, I have found them to be somewhat unresponsive. But I doubt than anyone else's support is very great, either. Is SuSE's documentation so very useful? Yes and no, but I suspect that it is at least as good as anyone else's.
I will say that I did NOT appreciate SuSE 8.1's replacing my lilo with grub or my old printer control with CUPS. Not that I have anything against either, but I understood them much better than these new things, and I would have appreciated the option of not replacing.
Also I find it very irksome that SuSE's installs used to recognize and configure my Iomega Zip 100 drive, but starting with 8.0, they failed to do so. Now whenever I install a new version of SuSE (I generally do a clean install, since I have<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/home on a separate disk that doesn't get overwritten), I have to install the drive myself. Does SuSE have something against Iomega or something?
But these are minor complaints. On the whole, I have found SuSE to be easy enough to use. Yast2 is a very nice tool, and I really appreciate SuSE's online update facility. I don't care a fig about Gnome, never having used it, so I'm not bothered by SuSE's emphasis on KDE. Maybe if I cared more about Gnome I would not like SuSE, I don't know.
I don't understand all the heat here on the subject of which distro is the really, truly best one. What is the big deal, for crying out loud? It's all Linux and you can easily get the same software to run on all of it. That's why that one guy's notion that there is a "standard" distro is really laughable.
My son has Gentoo on his machine, and when I sit down at his console, it practically everything works exactly as it does on my own system. I wouldn't know how to administrate his system, of course. But I'm sure that when he runs his apps, his first thought is not, "Oh boy, I'm running on Gentoo!" Apps are apps, you know?
Do I love it? No, but I doubt that I would love any distro. For the time being, I don't think that I have enough knowledge to install a source-based distribution like Gentoo. But I will probably get around to it someday, because I really like being in control of my system and I believe that Gentoo Linux offers the most flexibility in this regard.
Is SuSE's vaunted support so great? No, I have found them to be somewhat unresponsive. But I doubt than anyone else's support is very great, either. Is SuSE's documentation so very useful? Yes and no, but I suspect that it is at least as good as anyone else's.
I will say that I did NOT appreciate SuSE 8.1's replacing my lilo with grub or my old printer control with CUPS. Not that I have anything against either, but I understood them much better than these new things, and I would have appreciated the option of not replacing.
Also I find it very irksome that SuSE's installs used to recognize and configure my Iomega Zip 100 drive, but starting with 8.0, they failed to do so. Now whenever I install a new version of SuSE (I generally do a clean install, since I have<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/home on a separate disk that doesn't get overwritten), I have to install the drive myself. Does SuSE have something against Iomega or something?
But these are minor complaints. On the whole, I have found SuSE to be easy enough to use. Yast2 is a very nice tool, and I really appreciate SuSE's online update facility. I don't care a fig about Gnome, never having used it, so I'm not bothered by SuSE's emphasis on KDE. Maybe if I cared more about Gnome I would not like SuSE, I don't know.
I don't understand all the heat here on the subject of which distro is the really, truly best one. What is the big deal, for crying out loud? It's all Linux and you can easily get the same software to run on all of it. That's why that one guy's notion that there is a "standard" distro is really laughable.
My son has Gentoo on his machine, and when I sit down at his console, it practically everything works exactly as it does on my own system. I wouldn't know how to administrate his system, of course. But I'm sure that when he runs his apps, his first thought is not, "Oh boy, I'm running on Gentoo!" Apps are apps, you know?
Re:Suse Stinks: It is not in spirit with the linux
Posted by: Anonymous Coward on January 10, 2003 03:06 AM
LILO was slow? I have never heard of a problem like that. Did you try taking a look at the config file?
Furthermore, I have never heard of a laptop that monitors batteries through PCMCIA. What type of laptop is it?
Furthermore, I have never heard of a laptop that monitors batteries through PCMCIA. What type of laptop is it?
Re:Suse Stinks: It is not in spirit with the linux
Posted by: Anonymous Coward on January 10, 2003 05:53 AM
Gateway. And if you look this particular bug up up on Suse support, that is what they say is the cause. It is also a bug that is not under tech support.
I've run SuSE 8.1 and RH 8.0 and RH8 only lasted about a day on my computer.
Yes, and good luck on finding any support from these distros on linmodems, generic sound cards, or 90% of the other hardware that comes installed with that windows box. These distros pretty much told me to rebuild my computer. So much for their "support" service.
Simply don't buy Hardware which is not supported under Linux. It's also not the fault of the Linux development team (I speak about the Kernel people here) If they don't get any specs from the hardwarevendors. And generic sound works perfectly grab Alsa and some howtos and set it up on your own. If you fail then don't use Linux at all.
Linux is all about using Brain, reading FAQ's, Manuals, HowTo's. If you don't want to go into this hassle then don't use Linux. It's obviously wrong for you then.
Linux is all about using Brain, reading FAQ's, Manuals, HowTo's. If you don't want to go into this hassle then don't use Linux. It's obviously wrong for you then.
Yeah, the problem is, I bought my HP 5300C scanner BEFORE I got interested in Linux!
Sell it and buy a new one.
No problem for me. I have a Lucent LT Winmodem in one computer, and a Connexant HSF in another. Both of these run fine in Mandrake 9.0 after downloading drivers from the internet (using Google search engine). However, I can't find Windows drivers anywhere. Which one is easier now????
Also, when I installed Mandrake 9.0 on my sisters computer, with a USB scanner, SMC ethernet card, and the connexant modem, the only driver I had to install was the modem one. Try that with Windows.
Also, when I installed Mandrake 9.0 on my sisters computer, with a USB scanner, SMC ethernet card, and the connexant modem, the only driver I had to install was the modem one. Try that with Windows.
Yes, and I'm running a pctel hspmicromodem with an avance sound card on suse. Not to mention a windows dual boot. We might do it, but 90% of the Joe's that buy boxes won't. My point is, this needs to be addressed in a big way before linux on the desktop becomes much more than a geek machine.
Re:Crying on wrong grave (linmodem support)
Posted by: Anonymous Coward on January 13, 2003 02:26 PM
You're complaining about developers not offering support for your hardware.
You should be complaining (LOUDLY!) about (or preferably to) the hardware vendors not offering Linux drivers, or - even better - not offering enough of documentation to write open-source drivers. (What is so secret on ie. a temperature sensor chip or a modem card that you can't get it without signing a non-disclosure agreement is a question.)
Sorry, but until the manufacturers will upgrade their attitude to less obsolete version, tough luck<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:(((
I don't really like either of the above distributions. I actualy went through the pain of downloading the entire ftp site for Suse 8.1 and did a nfs install from my home server. It took me forever to get grub installed, kept crashing on me. I found the management tools to be rather lacking and it seemed to me like it wasn't using the most up to date as far as drivers and support.
Red Hat on the other hand installed very nicely. Got my wireless net up painlessly. Was very stable had good support for updating. However as with suse the management tools were rather lacking (as in non-existant) and for a reason I can't figure out, it seemed to suck more resources. My dvd player would run nice and smooth on Mandrake 9.0 but had a tendency to be choppy on Red Hat 8. Couldn't figure out the reason though. While I LIKE the Bluecurve theme, I really think they gear their system to heavily towards Gnome. I havn't tried installing it with just kde and no Gnome, but I have a feeling that alot of things would just stop working if I did that.
I've ran Mandrake 9.0 ever since beta 2 (or somewhere around there). Since the final release I've found it quick, easy to update and with a good set of utilities for managing the system. Their control panel is well layed out and fairly quick. Their method of updating could use some work though. Went through two mirrors (and one that just never responded) before I found one that worked right. They give equal amount of support towards gnome and kde (even though I'm really a kde user mainly..but experimenting lately with Gnome 2.0). I found a bluecurve them that will run on it and even went so far as to create little things like a My Computer and such. I know, for a true linux person that sounds like a cop-out..but for those who are new to linux (which I'm really not) a somewhat familiar interface I think will be necessary. I'd like to see it come with the Crystal icon set personally and concentrate a little more on polishing the desktop and then I think MD9 will be the winner in the desktop area.
Just my 2 cents.
Red Hat on the other hand installed very nicely. Got my wireless net up painlessly. Was very stable had good support for updating. However as with suse the management tools were rather lacking (as in non-existant) and for a reason I can't figure out, it seemed to suck more resources. My dvd player would run nice and smooth on Mandrake 9.0 but had a tendency to be choppy on Red Hat 8. Couldn't figure out the reason though. While I LIKE the Bluecurve theme, I really think they gear their system to heavily towards Gnome. I havn't tried installing it with just kde and no Gnome, but I have a feeling that alot of things would just stop working if I did that.
I've ran Mandrake 9.0 ever since beta 2 (or somewhere around there). Since the final release I've found it quick, easy to update and with a good set of utilities for managing the system. Their control panel is well layed out and fairly quick. Their method of updating could use some work though. Went through two mirrors (and one that just never responded) before I found one that worked right. They give equal amount of support towards gnome and kde (even though I'm really a kde user mainly..but experimenting lately with Gnome 2.0). I found a bluecurve them that will run on it and even went so far as to create little things like a My Computer and such. I know, for a true linux person that sounds like a cop-out..but for those who are new to linux (which I'm really not) a somewhat familiar interface I think will be necessary. I'd like to see it come with the Crystal icon set personally and concentrate a little more on polishing the desktop and then I think MD9 will be the winner in the desktop area.
Just my 2 cents.
Yep!
Posted by: Anonymous Coward on January 07, 2003 01:29 AMSo far my own opinion. Please reader know that RedHat mainly uses GNOME as their Desktop and also note that GNOME has a lot of flaws that won't get fixed anytime soon. To read more about current GNOME situation please read <A HREF="http://newsvac.newsforge.com/comments.pl?sid=28619&cid=38546">this link</a newsforge.com> and the replies to it. The replies explaining current flaws of GNOME which is used in RedHat are a mirror of the current GNOME version as in CVS. Please note that the CVS version are in UI and STRING deepfreeze so all named UI issues won't get fixed for this release anymore. Please also take your time and read <A HREF="http://gnomesupport.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1387">this link</a gnomesupport.org> and if you came from Windows and you dislike the Windows Registry then read this link because you meet the Windows Registry pukage again in GNOME. From my personal expirience and knowledge a couple of developers and contributors to the GNOME project resigned to continue working on and with GNOME. The whole development seemed to have slowed down like rats arse for the past months which is a good sign that developers are not happy with GNOME anymore it doesn't stimulate them to work on good usable applications for GNOME even a lot of so called standards which where called up on <A HREF="http://www.freedesktop.org/">Freedesktop</a freedesktop.org> are mainly decided by GNOME developers (usually the same 5-6 people that endless fill the GNOME mailinglist and doesn't reflect any norms or standard either by DIN or ANSI. But they implement these so called standards because there isn't anything else. At the end it results in breakage with applications that don't care or support GNOME at all e.g. people complain about Dialogs staying on top of other windows or Applications that annoyingly stay on top of other apps etc. Whenever you report these problems to the GNOME Bugtrackingbase or their Mailinglist you usually get told to report a bug to the mentioned application for not conforming to the freedesktop.org standards (which are NO standards). Anyways I think I should have you told this before you hype the situation to much. I do respect the hard work of the GNOME developers but they already lost focus of reality thats why I personally stopped activities on the GNOME section and switched over to KDE which IMO is far superior to anything else available on Linux today.
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