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Saving an old laptop with Knoppix
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July 07, 2003 (8:00:00 AM)
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by Peter Johansson
An old laptop of mine fubared its Linux partition beyond (easy) repair so I decided a clean install was the way to go. When I went to install a recent Debian system I had trouble with PCMCIA under the 2.2 kernel, and XFree gave me a blank screen under 2.4. Knoppix, however, made everything work automagically (with the exception of sound).
An old laptop of mine fubared its Linux partition beyond (easy) repair so I decided a clean install was the way to go. When I went to install a recent Debian system I had trouble with PCMCIA under the 2.2 kernel, and XFree gave me a blank screen under 2.4. Knoppix, however, made everything work automagically (with the exception of sound).
I thought for a minute... hmmm... I can compile a custom kernel for the box as I had always done in the past, or I can simply copy the Knoppix CD-ROM with its compressed filesystem onto the hard disk. Since the box has only 1.5 GB of disk available, things have always been a tight squeeze, but with Knoppix I would get a pretty complete install in only 700 megs, albeit with the cost of some speed to decompress applications on startup.
So I gave it a shot, and sure enough, it worked pretty darn well.
The only problem was the lack of persistent configuration. Knoppix supposedly has some tools that will allow you to save configuration info, but I haven't played with them yet. But it is pretty trivial to write a script to tweak things after the fact.
The only "problem" with Knoppix is that the CD-ROM is updated every few weeks and that there is no way to download just the changes -- the complete ISO image must be downloaded for each upgrade.
In any case, getting a compressed Knoppix to run from your HD is as simple as the following:
- Copy the contents of the CD-ROM to your hard disk. I created a 750 meg partition for this, but strictly speaking I'm not sure this is necessary. (Knoppix seems to scan for its compressed disk image, so you might be able to stash that anywhere)
- Mount the boot.img file via a loop mount point to copy off the kernel and initrd files.
- Configure grub or lilo to boot with these. You'll probably want to specify some boot options, at the very least, changing from the default German keyboard and language.
- Reboot. Then magic happens.
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Some times an old kernel is better!
It makes sense to use a knoppix or debian because it will install a 2.2 kernel by default and some old hardware won't work anymore with a 2.4 kernel.
It is the case with some bridges for the pcmcia (bridge = link between the pcmcia and the motherboard bus).
I installed a 2.4 kernel on a old mobile 700 from Siemens and never get the pcmcia to work.
Sorry i don't remember the bridge reference rigth now.
It makes sense to use a knoppix or debian because it will install a 2.2 kernel by default and some old hardware won't work anymore with a 2.4 kernel.
It is the case with some bridges for the pcmcia (bridge = link between the pcmcia and the motherboard bus).
I installed a 2.4 kernel on a old mobile 700 from Siemens and never get the pcmcia to work.
Sorry i don't remember the bridge reference rigth now.
Debian 3.0 (the most recent stable debian) still uses Kernel 2.2 by default. Also, in this case the hardware was old. Totally different scenario than your pointless troll.
I've used Knoppix to get Linux up and running quickly too, it's a great distro to use as a base.
I've used Knoppix to get Linux up and running quickly too, it's a great distro to use as a base.
No kidding. If Knoppix can get your hardware to work, then it stands to reason you can get it to work with any distro of Linux providing it has a more modern kernel series.
it's not just the kernel series.
it's that everything loads up and works.
and besides, the whole point was that now he got compressed system to boot.
it's that everything loads up and works.
and besides, the whole point was that now he got compressed system to boot.
Missing URLs, missing HOWTOs, missing laptop brand
Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 07, 2003 09:45 PM
In this article I miss some basic research. Why don't you provide a link to <A HREF="http://www.knopper.net/knoppix/" TITLE="knopper.net">Knoppix</a knopper.net>? Why don't you mention the HOWTOs which are already available on the subject? For example the <A HREF="http://tldp.org/HOWTO/4mb-Laptops.html" TITLE="tldp.org">4MB Laptop-HOWTO</a tldp.org> and the <A HREF="http://tuxmobil.org/howtos.html" TITLE="tuxmobil.org">Linux-Mobile-Guide</a tuxmobil.org>, which contains a section about using Linux on computers with small resources. Also you don't mention the manufacturer and the model name of your laptop. And besides hardware compatibility does not depend on Linux distribution it depends on the <A HREF="http://kernel.org/" TITLE="kernel.org">Kernel</a kernel.org>.
Re:Missing URLs, missing HOWTOs, missing laptop br
Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 07, 2003 10:48 PM
Smartass!
I agree, this was a terribly written "Article" - a D+ at best. Hopefully this isn't indicative of the direction "NewsForge" is going.
Sadly enough, there seems to be a trend towards badly written articles lately. I mean, come on, it's no wonder that a 2.2 kernel based debian will have more trouble getting all the hardware to work compared to a *very* current knoppix.
Re:Missing URLs, missing HOWTOs, missing laptop br
Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 09, 2003 01:21 AM
If you are going to comment on how much information the article omits, could you include a mention of what other distributions either provide a handy way to install on a compressed filesystem or do as good a job at autodetecting hardware as Knoppix?
For those of you interested, a HOWTO can be found here: http://www.knoppix.net/docs/index.php/HdBasedHowT<nobr>o<wbr></nobr>
Shane
Shane
This article was a 5-minute piece of whimsey I posted to the UMBC-LUG, the mailing list for a local Linux user's group. The intent was merely to point out one way in which Knoppix can be installed, and the fact that Knoppix "image" can make for a very good full-time linux for certain people in certain situations.
When Robin Miller (an old friend of mine) asked if he could use this as a basis for a Newsforge I said sure (I generally consider the posts I make to mailing lists to be in the public domain) and that I would be happy to re-work it into a proper "article for publication." I was told this was not necessary, and, quite frankly, I am a little annoyed that it dropped in without proper context.
At some point after I have actually played with this install a little bit more and come up with an apropriate scheme to customize the install without requiring the compressed filesystem to be remastered I'll submit a more formal article for publication on knoppix.net. In the meantime, I would be more than happy to answer (or try to answer, at least) any questions through email and I'd be more than willing to take suggestions from others that should be included in such a document.
-p.
When Robin Miller (an old friend of mine) asked if he could use this as a basis for a Newsforge I said sure (I generally consider the posts I make to mailing lists to be in the public domain) and that I would be happy to re-work it into a proper "article for publication." I was told this was not necessary, and, quite frankly, I am a little annoyed that it dropped in without proper context.
At some point after I have actually played with this install a little bit more and come up with an apropriate scheme to customize the install without requiring the compressed filesystem to be remastered I'll submit a more formal article for publication on knoppix.net. In the meantime, I would be more than happy to answer (or try to answer, at least) any questions through email and I'd be more than willing to take suggestions from others that should be included in such a document.
-p.
Dear Article Author,
I appreciate your article. It's like deja vu to me, I did the same thing a few months back, including the meandering through the problems of pcmcia on Debian / woody with the 2.2 kernel, then next to Knoppix with a quick hd install. This old laptop is off the shelf with a new life.
I appreciate your article. It's like deja vu to me, I did the same thing a few months back, including the meandering through the problems of pcmcia on Debian / woody with the 2.2 kernel, then next to Knoppix with a quick hd install. This old laptop is off the shelf with a new life.
I wouldn't call a laptop that actually has a CD-ROM drive "old." Try installing Linux with only a floppy drive and no network card (parallel/serial devices are acceptable though). Anyone got any hints for doing this? I have a parallel port zip drive that I can use.
Thats funny, I call my Toshiba Satellite Pro 410 CDT old - and it has a CD-Rom drive...
Last time I installed anything to a laptop with no cd-rom I used a peice of software called cdserve. It is similar to interserv that came with DOS, it would "share" a cdrom drive through a parallel to parallel cable (Fast Lynx cable). Been too long though, I can't find it anywhere and I don't know if there is a Linux version or not.
Remove the drive; use an adapter; mount it in a modern machine; install away/recompile away; put it back in the old, slow laptop. Done.
A while ago I was looking for info on how to connect and install a parallel port and found this (http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/mini/ZIP-Install.html) which is a description of how to install Linux from a Zip disk.
It was useless to me but could be helpful for you.
It was useless to me but could be helpful for you.
Very tough without network access. Several options, though.
1) get a Xircom parallel port ethernet adapter or buy a cheap 10/100 PCMCIA card if your laptop has PCMCIA. If it doesn't, you should really consider a newer laptop. If not, make sure your laptop has at least a 486 as even most old distros don't run out-of-the-box on anything less.
Not easy, but perhaps easier than the other ways posted.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;-)
1) (Xircom method) Set up an FTP server (using Linux or Windows) and then use a Red Hat boot floppy image (use Rawrite to create it) to boot the laptop. Choose FTP install (HTTP/web server, NFS servers are other options) and go for it.) I recommend you use either an older version of Red Hat -- security updates probably aren't quite as important for a laptop that isn't connected to the Net full-time -- or a new version of red hat with virtually nothing installed -- install RPM's yourself by hand.
2) (Xircom method) Get one of the boot floppy images that support NFS, Samba, wget, or rsync and do a Gentoo install. You need to fdisk and format (ReiserFS recommended) your hard disk and then wget down the Stage one tarballs.
3) Do the same thing as #3 except put the various stage tarballs (all of them except for #3 are less than 100MB) on Zip disks. However, you're not going to be able to add many additional packages without a network package.
In short, you really need a) a network card or b) a cdrom drive to really make this valuable. If you have a choice, pick a network card as while it will be more difficult to do the install, it will ultimately be more valuable to you in the end. Plus those PCMCIA NICS are cheap. (Xircoms parallel port NICS are SLOW and probably work poorly under Linux.)
1) get a Xircom parallel port ethernet adapter or buy a cheap 10/100 PCMCIA card if your laptop has PCMCIA. If it doesn't, you should really consider a newer laptop. If not, make sure your laptop has at least a 486 as even most old distros don't run out-of-the-box on anything less.
Not easy, but perhaps easier than the other ways posted.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;-)
1) (Xircom method) Set up an FTP server (using Linux or Windows) and then use a Red Hat boot floppy image (use Rawrite to create it) to boot the laptop. Choose FTP install (HTTP/web server, NFS servers are other options) and go for it.) I recommend you use either an older version of Red Hat -- security updates probably aren't quite as important for a laptop that isn't connected to the Net full-time -- or a new version of red hat with virtually nothing installed -- install RPM's yourself by hand.
2) (Xircom method) Get one of the boot floppy images that support NFS, Samba, wget, or rsync and do a Gentoo install. You need to fdisk and format (ReiserFS recommended) your hard disk and then wget down the Stage one tarballs.
3) Do the same thing as #3 except put the various stage tarballs (all of them except for #3 are less than 100MB) on Zip disks. However, you're not going to be able to add many additional packages without a network package.
In short, you really need a) a network card or b) a cdrom drive to really make this valuable. If you have a choice, pick a network card as while it will be more difficult to do the install, it will ultimately be more valuable to you in the end. Plus those PCMCIA NICS are cheap. (Xircoms parallel port NICS are SLOW and probably work poorly under Linux.)
If you have a serial cable laying around, you can pick up a null-modem adapter for about $3 at a place like radio shack. if you can get the laptop booted from a floppy with a ppp client available, you can use ppp to connect to your network through the serial port. however, your transfer rate will only be about 112kb/s or so.
note: i have used ppp over a null-modem/serial-cable setup for networking, but i have no idea if you can find/make a bootable linux floppy that has a ppp client on it.
note: i have used ppp over a null-modem/serial-cable setup for networking, but i have no idea if you can find/make a bootable linux floppy that has a ppp client on it.
If you have dos, you may be able to copy the files to your hard drive from a computer that has a CD-rom drive (with a null cable).
Then install from the hard drive.
Then install from the hard drive.
I can't recommend more strongly the use of rsync to keep your ISO files up to date. I run on a 56kb connection and use one of the Knoppix rsync mirrors to minimise downloads when there is an update. Sure, even if the change is only a few 100kb there is a time penalty as the file checksums are run through to find those changes, but sure cuts the time and bandwidth compared to downloading the full ISO each time. However, watch out for the trap of an interupted rsync download - it can turn into a complete download if that happens. Do a google search on "rsync" and "large files" to point you to Wiki pages that explain the pitfalls on that topic. Gavin.
Knoppix has a real installer that should solve many of the problems you complain about (persistent configuration, long downloads for upgrades) what you get at the end is basically a pre-configured debian system.
Damn
Posted by: dazk on July 07, 2003 04:39 PMHow about using something with a recent kernel to install?
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