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Spawn of Debian faceoff: LindowsOS 4.5
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I've heard a lot of negatives about LindowsOS since its debut. I've heard the installation procedure encourages users to run as root, and worse, to do so without a password. I've heard the company doesn't adhere to the GPL by providing access to the source code for LindowsOS. I've also heard the company didn't play nice with others at a desktop Linux trade show last year. From personal experience I know company reps are a lot more eager to talk to the Windows trade press than to the Linux press.
I mention these negatives as a preface to this review because I want it to be known I did not start my review of LindowsOS 4.5 free of bias. In fact, I did not expect to like what I found.
The test environment
I am using a low-cost desktop box I purchased from Fry's Electronics for $199.99 for the review. It came with an 800MHz VIA processor, 128MB DRAM, 30GB hard drive, 52X ATAPI CD-ROM drive, and mainboard with built-in AC97 Codec sound, 3D Graphics Accelerator video, SiS630E chipset, and a 10BaseT/100BaseTX NIC.
The box is connected to the Internet through my home LAN. A Belkin Wi-Fi router sits next to my office desktop, and the test machine connects to it via Cat 5 cable. Connected to my desktop box is an HP printer which is configured to allow sharing with others on the LAN.
Installation
When booting from the installation CD, you are given the choice of installing LindowsOS or simply running diagnostics. When I chose the former the screen went dark for about 2 minutes as the installer unpacked itself and began musing over the hardware.
The next screen offered me two choices. I could take over the entire disk or I could do an "advanced" installation. Throughout this entire series, I will be taking the entire disk for the install.
Next, I was asked to name the computer and provide a system password. The password is recommended, but the computer name is required. Being the creative type, I named it GQ-3051, the Fry's model I was installing Lindows on.
We hadn't gone far, but already the installation procedure asked me to verify my choices for the type of install (full disk), the computer name, and the system password. I did, and it immediately asked me again to verify the data. I did that too.
About 15 or 20 minutes later the installer told me to "Press return to continue." I did so, the CD drive opened, I removed the boot CD, and the system rebooted.
LindowsOS's opening screen looked very much like the one presented by the installer, but with more choices. I could choose to boot LindowsOS, redetect hardware, or run diagnostics. I selected the first option.
After providing the system password, the LindowsOS desktop appeared, and so did a "First Time Setup" wizard. The first thing the wizard wanted to do was set the system time. That done, the screen went dark again for about 30 seconds, then the desktop reappeared with a little more guidance from the wizard.
The wizard informed me that LindowsOS has set up a "strict" firewall, and that there are "advanced" settings I may wish to tinker with. Those include changing the system password, changing the resolution of the display, adding users, or changing the name of the system.
By this time I realized I was running as root, and that the "system password" was in fact the root password. I added a normal user. It was incredibly easy. All I had to do was enter the user name and password. Then, after reading and accepting the license, the wizard ended and LindowsOS launched a Desktop Tutorial.
While the tutorial is running every icon on the desktop and panel over which you pass the mouse cursor pops up an information window explaining what it is and what it does. One item on the screen caught my eye. It looked like a link to "Licensing and Source Code Information." When I passed the cursor over the link, it told me where to go on the LindowsOS site to download "most" of the LindowsOS source code, or if I preferred, where to order the source code on a CD.
After ending the tutorial, the "real" desktop reappeared. Without thinking I clicked on the browser, curious to see if the install had properly set up my Internet access. It had, and then I remembered I was still logged in as the superuser, so I logged out and then back in as the new user I had added.
Post-install landscape
On the left side of the desktop Lindows put a tall column of icons, including My Computer, My Documents, Network Browser, CD ROM, Floppy, Printers, Trash, Internet Connection Tools, Mail, and Web Browser. Along the bottom of the screen was a horizontal panel that contained icons for Lindows, Help, File Manager, Click-N-Run, Web Browser, Mail, and IM. The Lindows icon, a large letter L, serves the same purpose as a Gnome foot or KDE gear. Clicking on it reveals a menu of menus.
I had expected to find OpenOffice.org on the desktop, but it wasn't there. A Lindows spokesperson told me it is included and present after installation from the CD but not in the downloadable version. Fair enough -- that gave me the opportunity to try Lindows' Click-N-Run service a little bit later.
More on page 2...
Comments
on Spawn of Debian faceoff: LindowsOS 4.5Note: Comments are owned by the poster. We are not responsible for their content.
Free version is not really an issue. Suse doesn't stack up either, I tried it as well.
And if you want to use other Linux Distros for free, everyone always has that choice. Which is why I also you Slackware. So I use when Lindows when I don't want to mess with anything and just use my computer, and Slackware when I want to learn more about the deeper levels of Linux. So every Distro has it's purpose.
Ideal for people who 'haven't got a clue' about computers. For ones who have 'some' clue, I think Xandros could be a godsend. Curious about the review though.
As for HW detection, I have still to find a distro that beats Knoppix.
<A HREF="http://www.lindows.com/lindows_storefront.php?own=no" TITLE="lindows.com">http://www.lindows.com/lindows_storefront.php</a lindows.com>
And they have changed up from previous versions. You can check out:
<A HREF="http://info.lindows.com/coho/new/newfeatures2.html" TITLE="lindows.com">http://info.lindows.com/coho/new/newfeatures2.htm<nobr>l<wbr></nobr> </a lindows.com>
I believed the reviewer must have received a copy of the OEM version of Lindows 4.5. The Retail version included Open Office, Mplayer, and many other appliactions out of the box.
I know some people would say why would I buy what I can download for free with other distros. However, many distros in this space do charge for their distro and also charge for a library, CNR, club type of feature to download and install additional software easily.
I say that Lindows has done a great job with integrating the desktop into something that is usable by "Joe Sixpack" or "Mr. Geek" I enjoy running Lindows, because it just works. Period. Very stable, Feture rich, and easy to use. That is from a "Mr. Geek"
One final comment, in the growing arena of desktop linux used by the othe 95% of people (non-geek, non-techie) Lindows really shines. This is where the market is. And this is how a succesful Linux based company can profit and compete successfully.
but having quick easy to use db built in and a million templates are worth supporting a good cause. I am not new to linux (my systems include rh6-8, man 6-9.2, suse all, libranet 2.8, vector3.2 and 4.0, slack, deb, knoppix, smoothwall express, dos, win95,98,2000 )and I got to say it is nice to install a distro that works with everything i own by itself ( including a usb camera that won't work with every other distro, I mean not setting up anything... this is the type of distro that can overtake ms... now that said i still prefer vector or libranet for speed and using on old pc's, and knoppix for showing what awesome power linux has.but for casual pc people my kids, girl friend, and my grandmother this is it, it just works...
Best Linux distribution for Mr. Joe Sixpack
Posted by: Kevin Carmony With L on January 08, 2004 12:33 AMThanks for a very fair review. (By the way, are you "thee" mythical "Joe" Sixpack we've been longing to meet? =)
We really appreciate it when someone not only reviews LindowsOS, but actually reviews it in the context of our intended audience...the masses. To get the "average Joe" to try Linux, it needs to be ultra easy or they'll just run back to their comfort zone...MS Windows.
A few particular notes...
I want it to be known I did not start my review of LindowsOS 4.5 free of bias. In fact, I did not expect to like what I found.
And reviews like yours will help with the educating of those not familiar with LindowsOS.
About 15 or 20 minutes later the installer told me...
Everyone should keep in mind your testing was done on a $199 machine with only 128 MB RAM and an 800 Ghz processor. Even just by adding another 128 MB of RAM you'll find that your LindowsOS computer will race much more quickly.
On a typical machine someone might buy today for around $400, they'll find it takes under 10 minutes to install LindowsOS.
I had expected to find OpenOffice.org on the desktop...
Actually, you can even download the "full" version which comes with OpenOffice, MPlayer and Real Audio pre-installed. It's still only one CD, but a longer download. We make both options available since some people may choose to use StarOffice or some other office suite, so they'd just assume not download the bigger<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.iso with OpenOffice. I just wanted to clear up that the full one is available digitally as well, not just via the box set.
But, as you pointed out, the beauty with LindowsOS, is you can simply use CNR (click-n-run) to install whatever you want at any time.
As far as security issues go, the negative "buzz" is wrong.
Thanks again for helping with the education. This has been one heck of a monkey for us to try and shake. LindowsOS has supported users in every version since our release! It's been ultra easy to add users since our second BETA release. It's true we don't FORCE users to not run as root, but we don't believe "forcing" users to do anything is a very good idea. We like to offer more choices, not less.
As for pricing...
LindowsOS is free with many computers you can buy today. http://lindows.com/featured or $49.95 if purchased individually. (By the way, here's a way you can get LindowsOS for free when you buy StarOffice for only $49.95. http://staroffice.com )
The CNR service is either $4.95 a month, or $49.95 a year, or you can buy it with LOS for $89.95. Keep in mind that any software you install with CNR is yours for life and can be re-installed again at anytime, even if you let your CNR service expire. The idea of not wanting it to expire is to always have access to the new and updated programs that we add each week.
Thanks again,
Kevin Carmony
President, Lindows.com
Re:Best Linux distribution for Mr. Joe Sixpack
Posted by: Anonymous Coward on January 08, 2004 03:06 AMThanks again for helping with the education. This has been one heck of a monkey for us to try and shake. LindowsOS has supported users in every version since our release! It's been ultra easy to add users since our second BETA release. It's true we don't FORCE users to not run as root, but we don't believe "forcing" users to do anything is a very good idea. We like to offer more choices, not less.
I just installed Fedora and it on the first bootup configures somethings and asks if you want to create a user. (root was created during the installation.) It does not require you to create a user but it does recomend that you do. I think that if Lindows did this it would allay many of the security concerns and users would still have a choice.
Re:Best Linux distribution for Mr. Joe Sixpack
Posted by: Anonymous Coward on January 08, 2004 08:53 PMNot quite. Fedora is a bit more in-your-face about adding a user.
Re:Best Linux distribution for Mr. Joe Sixpack
Posted by: Anonymous Coward on January 08, 2004 09:19 PMExcept that you already make a lot of choices for the user (some of which were pointed out in the review), and that's a Good Thing(TM), because your target users simply don't have the experience or background to make those choices themselves. You pick the desktop--KDE. You decide what software is part of the initial install. You configure the hardware--without intervention from the user. You make all these choices, already, and are mostly praised for it, and rightfully so. Making users run as users, and not as root, would be another such decision.
You want to get that "monkey" off your back for good? Then do what even Xandros does when it comes to users and root.
Bottom line: Dont buy it-(nothing to write home about)<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-D
Lindows is poised for a buyout of reiserfs.
Lindows has it's hand in KDE byway of SCO-->TrollTech-->QT-->KDE, yes Lindows has a contract with SCO.
Lindows is a preditory animal.
Of course everyone knows Lindows isnt Linux, and I really dont care about Mr. Joe Six pack no more. Im sick of hearing about that guy! Its like um... ok its nice others can use it but if we have to make it easy for those who are too dumb to learn thats just sad. If its Linux it should feel like Linux! not look and feel like windows.
First of all, the SIPPhone client isn't ours - It's produced by a company named XTen. (No, not the popup company X10<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-) )
We're not buying out reiserfs. Michael first supported their endeavors via MP3.com and is now continuing that support.
Finally, everything concerning Lindows.com and SCO can be read at http://www.lindows.com/sco
-Brian
Kleedrac
You might want to look around the Lindows website a bit and see what they are saying about Windows compatibility these days. I don't think it's a big part of their sales strategy these days.
Check this page, for example:
http://www.lindows.com/lindows_sales_intro.php
See ya,
Joe Barr
No matter what.
I've tried to install Office 97 which is supposed to be supported by WINE and it doesn't work.
No docs or support are given with WINE.
So, that part of Lindows doesn't work at all.
LindowsOS Doesn't Try to Run MS Windows Programs
Posted by: Kevin Carmony With L on January 08, 2004 11:43 AMI guess the irony here is the company that a couple of years ago came
on the scene thinking we would try to run MS Windows software, is now the biggest advocate for NOT running MS Windows software.
We seem to be one of the biggest cheerleaders these days for the
development of great LINUX software. We'd rather see time, money
and energy going to <A HREF="http://lindows.com/opensource" TITLE="lindows.com">these projects</a lindows.com>, than trying to keep Microsoft in business by having everyone still buy their expensive applications. =)
Kevin Carmony
President, Lindows.com, Inc.
Re:LindowsOS Doesn't Try to Run MS Windows Program
Posted by: patriot_games on January 08, 2004 04:33 PMMy complaint is you're getting a lot of mileage out of free software but on the other hand distros like RedHat can't support Mp3.
You can argue with me all you want but public opinion will not side with you and your patented software.
Lindows is in bed with SCO probably, i'm just guessing, Micheal Robertson is a Mormon just like McBride.
Re:LindowsOS Doesn't Try to Run MS Windows Program
Posted by: Kevin Carmony With L on January 08, 2004 05:08 PMFact: Lindows.com doesn't use Codeweavers for anything. You must have us confused with Xandros or SuSE, they do.
Fact: <A HREF="http://lindows.com/mswindows" TITLE="lindows.com">http://lindows.com/mswindows </a lindows.com>
Fiction: My
complaint is you're getting a lot of mileage out of free software
Fact: The beauty of open source software is anyone can get mileage out of it.
Fact: We have spent millions of dollars advancing "free"
software. We spent over half a million on WINE alone, which we
don't even use anymore. <A HREF="http://lindows.com/opensource" TITLE="lindows.com">http://lindows.com/opensource</a lindows.com>
Fiction: <nobr> <wbr></nobr>...but
on the other hand distros like RedHat can't support Mp3.
Fact: I haven't a clue what you're talking about. (I have this feeling either does patriot_games<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;-)
Fact: Michael Robertson was the founder of MP3.com, NOT
the MP3 format. This
would be like saying that Amazon.com invented books and then being
upset at them because books are copyrighted. Ridiculous.
Fiction: You can argue with me all you want but public opinion will not side with you and your patented software.
Fact: I actually think you're probably helping sway public opinion our way more than anything I could say. =)
Fiction: Lindows is in bed with SCO
Fact: <A HREF="http://lindows.com/sco" TITLE="lindows.com">http://lindows.com/sco</a lindows.com>
Fiction: I'm just guessing, Micheal Robertson is a Mormon just like McBride.
Fact: Michael Robertson isn't a Mormon, Jewish, Jehovah's Witness,
Buddhist, Harri Krishna, or <insert whatever religion patriot_games
would like to show prejudice for and make fun of here>
Kevin
Re:LindowsOS Doesn't Try to Run MS Windows Program
Posted by: Anonymous Coward on January 09, 2004 02:28 AMRe:LindowsOS Doesn't Try to Run MS Windows Program
Posted by: Anonymous Coward on January 08, 2004 05:07 PMRe:LindowsOS Doesn't Try to Run MS Windows Program
Posted by: Kevin Carmony With L on January 08, 2004 05:13 PM=)
Kevin
I read warthawgs review and a few others before I installed Lindows 4.5 . I am not trying to be troll bait here, but I would like some answers or comments from Lindows users/peoples on what I have to say. I am testing Lindows and (soon) Xandros to see if, as a computer shop owner, I can start dropping a linux distro on Joe Sixpacks machine instead of Win98 ( I try to stay away from ME and XP ugh).
All that said here's my real comments.
1) I installed lindows 4.5 and it didn't work with my Nvidia GeForce 2 AGP card. The re-detect logs reported finding the Nvidia card but still it didn't work. All I got was a blank black screen after start-up. No messages no way to know what went wrong, no nothing. What is up with that. This is a very very very very common card.
To fix that problem I pulled the card and had lindows re-detect again with my video plugged into the onboard. That worked and I got my desktop. However IMHO this shouldn't have happened since Lindows makes bones about how easy and compatible it is.
2) Some of the multi-media software that was included in the install has got to be the poorest examples of software available for linux. Especially the MP3 player and the Image Viewer. What were you guys thinking when you chose those programs.
This is a big issue. Why you may ask, when the CNR warehouse is there? Because a new user is going to try to use this software first, and if it doesn't work easily and intuitively they won't bother and I will get the machine back and have to put Win back on. Especially ones who have dial-up.
3) File management was pitiful. The "Konquerer" file manager has to be one of the worst file management tools for people who don't know that much about file structure.
For example: to make a link anywhere you have to type in the url by hand. What joe sixpack is going to know how to type in a url to a file on their computer much less how to find it or understand anything about linking.
Another example: Media file previews take up the entire pane. You cant "link" (the other kind: which is also a point of confusion for a new user)
a preview pane and a list-o-files pane.
Another example: Insert a CD and then close the automatically opened window. Then go to konquerer and try to find the CD drive. Unless you know where to look (And believe me Joe Sixpack doesn't know what the heck<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/mnt is) you will never find it.
In conclusion I have to say I was dis-satisfied and dis-appointed. I expected better. Lindows is marketed as an alternative to Windows and easier than Linux. I don't think that in its present incarnation it is either.
Maybe I am trying to hold lindows to too high of a standard for as young as it is, however, when starting from a base OS like Linux with all the great Linux software out there, the Distro and included software should have been better and more intuitive.
Johnny B.
Whooooaaahhhh MAMA!!!!!!!
P.S. to the guy who wonders why anyone cares about joe sixpack. Joe sixpack is the fastest growing market for computer sales and service out there. Thats why.
give me my windows back! I have no problem with more advanced versions for techies but the average joe sixpack forget it!!!
Why doesn't lindows OS offer a CD with all the software options on it? this would be a godsend
to dial up people!!!! there are still millions of people still stuck with dialup!
Steve, N.
They do not disable software. Simply what happens is if you fail to use CNR they disable you from downloading and updating it again after the trial.
If you bought from CNB(Click and Buy),it's yours for life! Any machine,anywhere.
You can install Synaptic or use Apt-Get to still update these things if you have some knowledge.
CNR is based on Apt-Get/Klik.
True most of their CNR software is free from Debian,but their CNB software is not!
Lindows is set it up so that Lindows.com can control your computer - how else could they disable anything on your computer after the install? Thanks, but no thanks, I'd rather have Windows XP. At least M$ is just spying on you.
Price
Posted by: Anonymous Coward on January 07, 2004 09:35 PM#