Linux.com

The latest debian installers for sarge
have come a long way.

Debian's package update system is second to none.

Many interfaces are available for it
apt-get
aptitude
dselect
synaptic
kpackage
gnome-apt etc.

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I find this is frequently claimed by people who've never used another package update system, except maybe Sun's awful pkg* tools... Have you used urpmi or up2date or yum?

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Well, urpmi is good, and I've never tried yum, but up2date is a pile of dogshit. Hell, I'd rather use a pile of dogshit as my package manager than up2date.

Apt still beats them all, though. And its not debian-only, you can use apt pretty much anywhere nowadays.

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yum sucks too!! it is slooooooow!! I used it for 6 months on fedora 1/2 before switching to debian!!

Apt is ALOT better

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Apt runs on Fedora you know? I've been using APT on Fedora since I first installed Fedora. I haven't tried Yum though.

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Sorry but urpmi just plain sucks. It's cumbersome and dosn't work as it should.

apt-get, emerge etc all work as expected and do what they are supposed to.

Oh and background: I went from RH -> MDK -> Gentoo -> Debian.

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Good path, just one step to far!<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;)

Portage is clearly the winner in this respect

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I just finished the travelling same path at the grandparent (RedHat - Mandrake - Gentoo - Debian). I was able to set up in a day with Debian what I struggled with for three weeks with Gentoo - namely a server with Apache, PHP, mod_auth_ldap and MySQL. PHP wanted Apache2, while mod_auth_ldap wanted Apache1.3, etc. etc. Mucho dependancy problems, even with something this simple. Portage is a very good system, but it still needs some refinement before I would trust Gentoo with a production server. If I was setting up a desktop (for myself) I would probably give Gentoo a try in that role.

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Gentoo is great for the tweaker, the "I want everything optimised and compiled for my system cause I want to sqeese those last 2 nanoseconds speed out of it" type.
Gentoo is in my opinion a great distribution, but -WAY- too slow to manage.
Compiling OpenOffice and you've wasted your youth doing that, cause on a small system it takes ~24 hours.
Now the upsides to Gentoo is a lot of the packages are available as easy to install emerge commands, far more -new- packages than many of the others.

Debian is my distro of preference, due to several reasons.
It's easy to install, it's not hard to install, Slackware is easier to install than debian, gentoo is harder (a lot if you don't read the manual).
Maintaining Debian is a dream, you don't have to wait days for it to update the entire system. Running Stable you're pretty certain that there are no real issues with the packages etc.

Debian > * When it comes to what distro to use for a server<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)

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Why am I not surprised that some Debian person start's bragging about apt? Well if you like old, infrequently updated or unstable distro's you'll get fairly well along with debian. Simply use stable, testing or unstable. If those three choices are not for you, start mangling trees and be welcomed in Debian hell.

While I can sort of understand that people like apt, I always found it cumbersome and usually not doing what I want it to do. But that's just me I guess.

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Hey, let's further (some of) the popular stereotypes surrounding the various distributions. Let's simplify other people's choices of distribution down to pseudo-teenage MTV-like standards. Let's feed the trolls instead of encourage cooperation and the very thing that has brought us this wonderful OS: Cooperation and levelheaded competition. Yay.

(For the record: I use (not entirely by choice, but by profession) various distributions and tend to like most of them, even though I mostly run one of them at home, mainly because of personal taste, not because of stereotype personality features).

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Let me guess, you're British and have strong sense of irony? You're East Coast with a well rounded personality? Hang on, let me guess

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Yep, you're right. Sorry.
I re-read the article, and now it's soo funny! I've never seen this kind of original stuff before, a total eye-opener.
Like mushrooms, but without the illegal part.

You were almost right in your guessing too. I'm swedish. That's close enough to most people I guess.

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and it made me laugh.

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Agreed, but the grandfather post exhibits the main problem with the Linux community: a good majority of it's members are fags.

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Now you're getting in stride -- althought I suggest that you lose the derogatory language and attitude. It kinda sucks the joy out of a humor piece.

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He he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he he h eh eh eh eheh eh ehehehe eh eheehe eh eh ehehe eh ehehe eh ehe heehe eh

Now switch to OS X. Well.. if you want to get some _work_ done; say writing Latex using TexShop or perhaps draw some figures using Omnigraffle.. Or.. eh.. maybe just reading Word documents?
I mean, I like Linux, and have been using it since compiling a 1.2 kernel on my dad's 486.. Ah back in the days.. Hmm.. Anyone know why they swithced from 586 to Pentium? Can't copyright a number.. Hmm.. Anyways. You do WORK, you use OS X, you need the computer to do work for you, you use linux.

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When I need to work - I use Linux.
When I need my computer to do work - I use Linux.
When I just wish to chat with friends, watch a movie, listen to music, or just browse the web - I use Linux.
When I want to play games - I use both Linux and Windows.
When I want to use a crappy 1 button mouse - I use OS X.

Just because you do work on OS X doesn't mean other people even can stand going near it.

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twat.

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Hey, let's play a game. Let's see just what kind of putz you are.

Let's say you pasted in the word naïve.
Or, perhaps you searched the web for the ASCII code.

Option #1 means you are a jackass.
Option #2 means you are a jackass egoïste.

-----------
Yay for me, I sound smarterest!

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Where is slackware on the list?

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Maybe Slackware is the invisible distribution?

I've never used Slackware so it's hard for me to lampoon it. Perhaps you would like to email me a paragraph, and I'll add it.

Joe

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Email me a paragraph lampooning Ubuntu users and I will add it.

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Slackware, a distro "Just for Men".

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khm khm<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...
yeah right just for men<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;-)

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Slackware... the name says it all.

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Slackware runs <A HREF="http://www.spamgourmet.com/" title="spamgourmet.com">http://www.spamgourmet.com/</a spamgourmet.com> -- it's great for setting up a minimalist (read: probably more secure) special purpose deployment

And yes, I'm the "tar -zxf;configure;make;make test;make install" kind of user -- it worked in 1993 and it still works today [ducks]

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>>
And yes, I'm the "tar -zxf;configure;make;make test;make install" kind of user -- it worked in 1993 and it still works today
>>

Amen.

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Make test?

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Yeah, it'll run an test scripts in a test directory to insure that make was successful before running make install, useful if an app can build but still not work correctly in some cases.

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apt-get -f upgrade
apt-get -f remove packagename

I don't use slackware just because only Debian has super cow powers.

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apt-get is dpackage with even more things wrong. Pretend you have a dialup connection or other lousy connection, or are low on space, or don't have too much time, or a slow processor. Now apt-get sucks.

Ok, pretend you have program-1.10 that has features x,y,z that you use every day. You want to install proggie-1.0 which requires the completely redesigned and incompatible program-2.0.

You apt-get blindly the proggie and apt-get blows away program-1.10 and replaces it with program-2.0.

NONE OF THIS HAPPENS IN SLACKWARE

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upgradepkg
removepkg

and yes, it will not erase your old config files, but that isnt a bug, its a feature...
if you want to clean then up, erase then your self, let not any script destroy users info, let the user decide WHAT, WHEN and HOW to destroy things

and by the way, you can use swaret and others to fetch packages, and to those you have to compile, dont forget to use checkconfig if you want to manage that software as a normal package

like always, the admin decides what and how to do, not the machine or someone else

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Slackware is just an honest linux distro with no special gimmicks and no axe to grind. It will never be a 'corporate' distro, and it isn't under the sway of RMS type zealots. You'll have all neet stuff that the average home linux user wants.
Even if you use something else at work, you'll like Slackware at home.

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People who USE this would likely not be happy with Slack. However; I use it and like it and see no reason to change, but then I still like FVWM.

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Good old fvwm! Use it at work. (On Slashdot, I'm fvwmfan)

Just reading all the comments from Slackware users - I think I just got converted!

Up till now, have stuck to RedHat 7.1 . At work, use Fedora and Suse 9.1 .

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Where? In the distro-graveyard.

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Nonsense. it's still a fantastic server distro. simple, clean, and super stable.

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hohoh in the distro graveyard. puhlease. supplicant grovel before the great patrick volkerding...

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Running my gateway.

My desktop is FVWM 2.5.12 on Debian 3.1 (`cat<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/etc/debian_version`).

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its for those who like to know how it all really works

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Slackware is for crazy folk

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"Slackware users are grumpy, bearded old Unix sysadmins who prefer things be done the "good old fashioned way", making their Linux distro stick to traditional Unix principles, through 10 feet of snow, uphill, both ways!"

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Except for the "bearded" and "grumpy" bit, that description seems to apply to me.
maybe we can also add this to the Slackware user description:
You like to be in exact control of what your system does and want to be able to customize and tweak your system to optimal performance.
You are a techie and proud of it and you dislike "easy linux installations".

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Eh.. when you add all that, you really get a gentoo user. (Spoken by a proud ex-slackware user and a proud current gentoo user.)

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heh, why not both? i run gentoo on my desktop and slackware on the server... not to mention crux ppc on my dad's ibook (text-only install too<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)
i've also got the bearded and grumpy thing down, despite being 16

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Nah, gentoo isn't stable enough for production. Any slack admin knows that.

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Though I am only 25, I am bearded, and I do stick to the 'good old fashioned way' - thus slackware is my choice of distro.

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Wow, odd that. I'm not old, I CAN be grumpy.. and I do have a fashionable Go-T... but I simply love Slackware... muh! Maybe I was just too lazy to try any other of the hundreds of distros out there.

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I am a grumpy person, I have never used Unix, and I am 18 years old... and i use Slack.

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Well, I'm can definitely be grumpy, but it's more along the lines of insane. I'm not old, and as for traditional UNIX principals and the good old way? Frankly, it's the only distro I can take unmodified sources and have it work 90% of the time. Slackware is clean, minimal, fast, and works. Plus, with a modicum of effort (read: organization/motivation) its very easy to keep it up to date.

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Yes, we are old, bearded, and grumpy... Because we worry about other things so much it's nice to have a stable OS that gives you enough slack so you don't have to worry about it. Do I want to compile a new app? No problem! Do I need to upgrade a couple of apps? No problem!

I tried going back to RH but when I tried to re-compile SSH (so I wouldn't have a gaping security hole) I gave up because of the missing libraries. Then I remembered RPM... and after failing on the third dependency I started getting flash backs to the old IRIX days and chucked it.

Slackware is the only OS where I've been able to upgrade KDE wholesale, without any issues. I can completely remove the packages and install the new ones. When I tried that with RH (because the updates wouldn't take) I had to rebuild the OS from scratch. Heck, with Slackware I've been able to install new window managers without any problems! If I want EVILwm I have it.

Slackware frees my grumpiness for things that matter, like when to shave. With Slackware I don't have to squander my age with a lack of choice.

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hey how funny, with the exception of the bearded and
old parts most slackware users i know (including myself) fit that discription well. slackware is for people who like consistency, almost every release from them i've used at one point or another and every one of them is stable, fast and efficient.

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Seems to fit me also except for the bearded part, Slackware for life<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)

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praise bob!

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Hey!
I resemble that remark!

Not grumpy, just irratated at little kids who think that they know everything.

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As a parent, remember to kick your kids into getting a job WHILE THEY KNOW EVERYTHING! (g)

BTW - Slackin' since 1994 - wife won't let be grow a beard (g).

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Slackware was good in 1995, and it's still my favorite distro now that it's almost 2005.

I like Gentoo a lot, and have installed and admin'd Redhat, Mandrake, & Debian for people, but in the end, give me my good old slackware and I'm happy.

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I love my slackware. Always used it, from the begining (~1994/5). Now with 10, 2.6.8

With slack I have learned, really learned; how things are done, what is the idea behind linux/unix.

I was not afraid to compile the kernel for the first time, it was more like natural to do it, do my own upgrades, from source of course. You really learn how this stuff works.

Have worked with RH, suse, debian; but I will always stay with slackware, I not going back.

I really wonder why the other distros, beside debian, are so complicated just to configure eth0!!! Take a look at suse! Or even worse iptables, that hurts!

In slack: simple, natural.

And never a system that is mantained by me has been cracked. Maybe luck, but I don't think so.

So maybe, that good old ways, sysadmin, is just me<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:) I have a life with that.

Ivan

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Ahh Slackware! My first Linux distro. I remember downloading it a disk at a time on my 386 over 14.4 modem. I still have those disks, although they long ago became unreadable. I still keep the name that Slackware defaulted my original box to "darkstar" on my main box.

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I've used numerous distributions over the years, and Slackware is the only one I actually enjoy using. I, too, am one of those tar xzvf;<nobr> <wbr></nobr>./configure; make; make install; make clean; folk. I remember older versions of Slack being a little difficult to set up, but the new version is just as easy as XP. Slackware just has a certain "feeling" that no other distro even comes close to matching.

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Slackware users hate change, unless they are the first to make the change. They laugh at the work Gentoo'ers go to compile everything because we've been doing it for years. We think debian users are fools because of their values, Mandrake users are silly because we like TWM, RedHat users are greedy because we can do it all for free and most of all the others are pointless because why change unless we did it first?

gk karges @ coco-butter . org

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yawn. i can't believe this article is getting linked anywhere. guys like this author are the ones who promote the "lame geek" stereotype.

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LOL! exactly!!

This article was lame, pointlessly biased, and not worthy of publication on slashdot, aside from being able to show everyone how lame the author is!

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Slackware is not for newbies! so.. is not trying to help the newbies ones...

Slack rlz<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)

Zippo.

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Actully i would say slackware is the best newbie distro.
Because if u use slack u know how things work.
And u can manage all distros on the market.
If u learn slackware u know how to do things.
And u might even discover the power of console over gui.

The more linux u go, The slacker u get<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;)

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I have read translation of this article in Russian. In it was spoken " the basic users Slackware is Russian physicists. " It is wrong translation, but it precisely characterizes Slackware. Best regards from Russia.
Physicist from russia.

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Same thing - I saw the russian translation with
joke about russian physicists, then cake up here and found most descriptions of slackware-users
appliable to myself. I really used Slack in 96, but now I choose FreeBSD, maybe because I'm more russian mathematician than physicist.

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www.ubuntulinux.org

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You demand excellence, wanting the best of both worlds: bleeding edge apps and a stable desktop.

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Bleading edge apps? You wish. The only bleading edge thing in ubunty is gnome and a couple of other gnome related apps. Props for the addoption of project Utopia but that's where my appreciation ends.

It would be a little bit more acurate if you say that: using debian scares you but you still can't live without binaries<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...

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I agree and disagree: the install configured my wireless which i REALLY did not expect but the firefox shipped with ubuntu does not meet my expectations. They're still using 0.9.3! I might as well be using debian (:

I'm going back to slackware

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Go to MEPIS...I tried Ubuntu for a month...really really gave it a try and found it far to simple for my tastes.

MEPIS is the best damn desktop out there for Linux.

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Ditto, got to love this distro, had it on my R51 for the past few weeks and I've got to say I love it. It took me quite a while to get Debian to behave like Ubuntu does out of the box. Plus 6 month releases and a dead simple install? I'm sold.

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<TT>Humor, kids.  It's supposed to be tongue in cheek.  No need to get up in arms about it.

My only complaint is he left Slackware off the list! </TT>

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No!! I demand that ALL posts on the internet are in no way humorous and all are subject to flame wars!! (gnashing of teeth)

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Hex is for sissies.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;)

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It's supposed to be tongue in cheek.

Obviously it's intended to be funny. But if that's the best that Joe Barr can do as humor, I'd seriously recommend that he stick with his day job and not set his heart on becoming a scriptwriter for Rodney Dangerfield..

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We count in hex. Get it right.

And yes, Debian's installer does suck.

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I'm curious - exactly what do you think sucks about it? The only thing I've ever frowned about in it is the lack of RAID configuration at the installation.

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I've always liked the Debian installer, too. Once you're used to it, its rather nice.

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I use Debian on my server(s), and I've just started using Ubuntu as my desktop distro. Both use the Debian installer, though Ubuntu's is slightly simplified.

The only thing "wrong" with the Debian installer that I can see is that it isn't as purty as the graphics-based ones for RedHat, SuSE, and the like.

Technically, the Debian installer seems to do everything fine. Never had a problem with it, on the many systems I've used it on.

Nick

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Installers are for women!<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;)

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When ever I've used the Debian installer I find that it keeps trying to make me do the work of figuring out what kernel modules you need and crap like that.

I've tried to test Debian a few times, but I find that it doesn't even configure enough stuff to be able to connect to the internet. Debian needs better automatic configuration.

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What about people who make their own distro?

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You're gay?

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Or masochistic, but that's the same thing, right?

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lol

not really - plenty of gay sadists around.

not to mention vanilla gays

Plenty of striaght masochists around too

Me? Well my shoulders are still hurting from being cuffed to the ceiling and being beaten by a pair of lesbians this weekend.

Oh and I use debian

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Gentoo has all the scripts, bits and peices, you have to put it together like Ikea furnature. LFS, you have to cut down the trees, process the wood, , design the furnature, then build it.

John Wayne would use *BSD anyways. (inset<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/. BSD/John Wayne is dead joke here)

But of course, choice of a distro, (at least at first) falls into "follow what your friends have done so they can help you" rule.

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But of course, choice of a distro, (at least at first) falls into "follow what your friends have done so they can help you" rule.

I followed that rule, and he was using Slackware. He's no longer my friend.

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Ah, but for us home crafters and hobbyists, LFS is the killer choice - rather like those kits you could buy from the old Popular Science, where they sent you all the parts and instructions and you could put it together in your (heated) garage on cold, boring winter nights.

Robert C. Worstell

<A HREF="http://worstellr.blogspot.com/" title="blogspot.com">A Midwest Journal</a blogspot.com>

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Distributions are for whimps.

Obtain http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/Historic/l<nobr>i<wbr></nobr> nux-0.01.tar.gz
and start building your kernel and system from there.

You'll learn Unix on the side.

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I'm gathering some sand and I'm gonna fab my own CPU

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That's for whimps, you should start creating your own sand from a sub-atomic level if you really want to know what you're doing.

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Get a life, idiot!

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Do you ever get the urge to go back to the good old Victorian days? No we are not whimps, we are just higher on the evolutionary scale!.
If a monkey could operate a cherry picker, do you think it would still climb trees. NO. it's called progress son.. go and look it up.. better still compile your own dictionary, that should keep you happy.....

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i'm guessing the author of this article really doesn't know what they are talking about.

if a general broad statement is made about an os, suse for example about the placement of files i would like an explaination of what specifically they mean.

there is many standards,opinions and other ways of doing things. init scripts in<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/sbin vs<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/etc/rc.d, xinetd vs inetd<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/opt vs<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/usr/local etc.. etc..

not to mention, you didn't even mention that yast is probably just as easy as click and run and twice as sexy<nobr> <wbr></nobr>..

'msft core fonts' right in the online update, how cool is that?

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HUMOR. Jesus christ no wonder everyone on the outside world thinks Geeks/Linux/etc are weirdos.

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people like you are sooooo unfun.

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..I know exactly what the writer meant!
for instance, WTF is this directory<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/srv doing on my system? Apache doesn't put it here by default!

Why does SuSE have to be so....Germanically Different<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;-)

Loved the article - thanks for the chuckle.
Effect:
snort coffee |<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/usr/nose ><nobr> <wbr></nobr>/dev/keyboard

-Andy

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and proof of that: the author assumed knoppix users booted from the cd as opposed to making a debian install to the hard drive and now work with a debian set up...

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"you didn't even mention that yast is probably just as easy as click and run and twice as sexy"

Yes, as long as the mirrors don't go up and down like yo-yos! How long do the source settings stay valid until someone decides to move the directories????

I speak as a slightly frustrated Suse and Mandrake user.

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I like beer, horns and green eggs and I've been known to get aggresive and shove live cd's into people's pc.

So it's no wonder I use SuSE on my laptop and knoppix on my other box.

thnx, made me laugh.

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I think it's quite obvious that this was written by a Mandrake fanboy. It's the only distro that didn't get bashed<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... and instead was pampered beyond belief. I thought this thing would say things like, "Slackware/Debian/... users enjoy being able to actually SEE linux." I had Mandrake installed once<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... for one day. Then I realized that it was just an operating system for people who don't want to know just what operating system they're using. So you know what, Joe Barr? Mandrake sucks. Yeah<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... yeah<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... take that. You and your little distro can go live your happy little lives. Just don't tell the other people how much the and *their* distro sucks.

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Actually, SUSE has been my distribution of choice since Red Hat stopped offering a desktop for home users. I'm glad that you didn't pick up on that from the article, or else I would have failed in trying to lampoon everyone equally.

Joe Barr

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I beg to differ. There were at least 2 points in there that you probably didn't spot, namely (1)Mandrake is only a desktop distro, not a server one, and (2)Mandrake users don't care about freedom.
Of course, I see the funny side to the stereotype,
but guess what - I use Mdk on a server! And actually, all of Mandrake's core must be GPL-compatible. (The wretched non-free stuff is only in the boxed sets.) Mdk don't even include pine because it isn't properly open source - it has to end up on the "penguin liberation front".

But seriously, it was a funny article<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-)

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lets hope so. Mandrake is the best of the best.
look at all the grouchy people.
rolling on the floor laug