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Feature: Linux
My desktop OS: Gentoo Linux
By Joseph Quigley
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March 21, 2006 (8:00:00 AM)
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As a Linux newbie, Red Hat Linux 9 impressed me. When that excitement wore off, I jumped cold turkey into Slackware Linux. I tried Ubuntu but it was too slow for my low-end desktop, a 32-bit 1.58GHz Sempron 2300 with 512MB of RAM and no swap file. By this time I was a competent Linux user who enjoyed using the console. I wanted to go beyond distros designed to be user-friendly because I found them to be almost always slow on low-end systems. Gentoo Linux's speed, power, and many application and configuration choices made it an appealing choice for me.
Gentoo Linux is fast because every installed package is compiled for the user's hardware. Most packages are source code, but binaries are becoming more common and more popular, as they are quicker to install.
The Gentoo installation process was almost flawless; the exception was that I need the pci-utils package, but the Gentoo Handbook never mentioned the need to install them. I managed to get a response from someone on the #gentoo channel on irc.freenode.net who pointed me in the right direction.
Gentoo Linux is all about choices. Do I want VLC media player compiled with Win32 codecs and Xine or MPlayer with AAC support? Or do I want to scrap that and go with open source formats? Gentoo uses the powerful Portage package manager to install and remove programs. Much of Portage's power comes from USE flags that tell Portage what dependencies to compile a program with. It has a front end called Emerge which the guide recommends for installing programs. To install Xine with AAC support, you can add the use flag and program to /etc/portage/package.use or the command line (
After I got my base Gentoo system set up, I decided to install KDE 3.5.0 and GNOME Display Manager (GDM). I added the
In three hours, I got a firewall and an intrusion detection system configured and running. I set up a Bootsplash with a little research. I got 3D acceleration running in five minutes on a Radeon 9200SE video adapter. I then played Trackballs and Tux Racer while Portage compiled Python and Blackdown Java SDK. Both of the games' frame rate didn't go down much during the compile. I did find some quirks with ATI proprietary drivers that improperly render some sky and sand in Trigger. I still have not found a solution.
I didn't have trouble getting my chip reader to work, as HAL and D-BUS detected it perfectly. However, I still don't have a working printer driver for my Canon Pixma 1500; luckily, printing isn't very important to me.
With a little bit of maintenance I can keep my system up-to-date or on the bleeding edge by using the command
For those of us on low-end systems, Gentoo Linux's speed is astounding. If you have a higher-end system, you won't be disappointed either. A Gentoo machine could easily become your favorite graphics workstation, Web server, or programming workstation.
I'm very satisfied with the power Gentoo Linux gives me. It's a distro of power.
The Gentoo installation process was almost flawless; the exception was that I need the pci-utils package, but the Gentoo Handbook never mentioned the need to install them. I managed to get a response from someone on the #gentoo channel on irc.freenode.net who pointed me in the right direction.
Gentoo Linux is all about choices. Do I want VLC media player compiled with Win32 codecs and Xine or MPlayer with AAC support? Or do I want to scrap that and go with open source formats? Gentoo uses the powerful Portage package manager to install and remove programs. Much of Portage's power comes from USE flags that tell Portage what dependencies to compile a program with. It has a front end called Emerge which the guide recommends for installing programs. To install Xine with AAC support, you can add the use flag and program to /etc/portage/package.use or the command line (
USE="aac" emerge xine). Gentoo's customization abilities look attractive when compared to Ubuntu's two choices of take it or leave it.
After I got my base Gentoo system set up, I decided to install KDE 3.5.0 and GNOME Display Manager (GDM). I added the
kde and gnome keywords to my /etc/make.conf file and then typed emerge kde && emerge gdm. Portage then downloaded GDM, ran the configure script, and started the compile process. The compilation took about 33 hours on my low-end system. Portage calculated all the dependencies, and I just sat back and browsed the Internet from Links until Xorg finished compiling. Portage allows more than one emerge, which is great if you don't need to use your computer for awhile but really slows it down if you try to emerge more than one package on a low-end system. I was impressed that I could watch a DVD and compile KDE simultaneously with few interruptions or glitches.
In three hours, I got a firewall and an intrusion detection system configured and running. I set up a Bootsplash with a little research. I got 3D acceleration running in five minutes on a Radeon 9200SE video adapter. I then played Trackballs and Tux Racer while Portage compiled Python and Blackdown Java SDK. Both of the games' frame rate didn't go down much during the compile. I did find some quirks with ATI proprietary drivers that improperly render some sky and sand in Trigger. I still have not found a solution.
I didn't have trouble getting my chip reader to work, as HAL and D-BUS detected it perfectly. However, I still don't have a working printer driver for my Canon Pixma 1500; luckily, printing isn't very important to me.
With a little bit of maintenance I can keep my system up-to-date or on the bleeding edge by using the command
emerge --update world. The community has a Web site devoted to installing packages, and has a nice-sized wiki for questions such as how to get Google Earth running under WINE or how to update an extremely large system.
For those of us on low-end systems, Gentoo Linux's speed is astounding. If you have a higher-end system, you won't be disappointed either. A Gentoo machine could easily become your favorite graphics workstation, Web server, or programming workstation.
I'm very satisfied with the power Gentoo Linux gives me. It's a distro of power.
What desktop OS do you use every day? Write an article of less than 1,000 words telling us what you use and why. If we publish it, we'll pay you $100. (Send us a query first to be sure we haven't already published a story on your favorite OS or have one in hand.) In recent weeks, we've covered SimplyMEPIS, Xandros, Mac OS X, Fedora Core 3, Ubuntu, White Box Enterprise Linux, Mandriva PowerPack 2006, Slackware, SUSE, GRML, and Kanotix.
Comments
on My desktop OS: Gentoo LinuxNote: Comments are owned by the poster. We are not responsible for their content.
I agree; I run Ubuntu Breezy on an Apple PowerBook G3/400MHz w/ 256MB DRAM. It's actually quite nice and gave this laptop a new lease on life (OS X was *not* on my list of choices).
That said, nothing except maybe LFS can beat a Gentoo Stage 1 install for speed, once it's up. It is faaaaaaaast. Slackware and VectorLinux, however, are also very good that way. But Gentoo is, for sure, not for the typical Windows user, and it's because the "typical Windows user" refuses to think a little bit; they 'd have just as much of a problem with Slackware or Vector (probably Ubuntu, too, come to think of it!).
Here's my rough working guide for being able to recommend Gentoo to someone: if you can figure out how to install FreeBSD 5.x with KDE/GNOME and OpenOffice.org, you'll have little trouble with Gentoo...and you'll like it. If not, you'll likely experience some frustration while you learn several new concepts (NOT a bad thing), but when you're done and you've learned, you'll be glad that you did.
That said, nothing except maybe LFS can beat a Gentoo Stage 1 install for speed, once it's up. It is faaaaaaaast. Slackware and VectorLinux, however, are also very good that way. But Gentoo is, for sure, not for the typical Windows user, and it's because the "typical Windows user" refuses to think a little bit; they 'd have just as much of a problem with Slackware or Vector (probably Ubuntu, too, come to think of it!).
Here's my rough working guide for being able to recommend Gentoo to someone: if you can figure out how to install FreeBSD 5.x with KDE/GNOME and OpenOffice.org, you'll have little trouble with Gentoo...and you'll like it. If not, you'll likely experience some frustration while you learn several new concepts (NOT a bad thing), but when you're done and you've learned, you'll be glad that you did.
Don't use X in a server, and no, Gentoo is no good for servers, and yes i like gentoo, but for fast deploy a binary based distro would be much more efficient
Ubuntu in general isn't slow, but when you're compiling programs, and cracking passwords to test their strength and running 7 other programs (Firefox whith more than 1 tab open is a ram hog) all at once, ubuntu get's quite slow. Other than that I recommend Ubuntu to every person who want's a Linux system that they don't have to fight with or customize too much.
I've tried out Ubuntu 5.04 on a 700Mhz PIII laptop with 256Mb RAM. The installation took about one and a half hour; the system booted very slowly, and the applications worked slower than on other distros. I haven't used Ubuntu since then.
Agreed - I run it on a 256Mb Celeron 700, and find it quite usable. How slow can it be on 1.5GHz chip with twice the memory?
I ran ubuntu 5.04 and Gentoo last year on my PIII M 1.2GHz 512MB. and gentoo runs circules around Ubuntu. I got so tired of how slow Ubuntu is; I even downloaded i686 kernel and didn't find much improvements.
I installed the latest dapper on my AMD64 X2 3800 with 4G ram and a raptor harddrive. I used the latest preemptible kernel with smp support. Unfortunately, the installation turned out to be annoyingly slow compared to my regular Debian Unstable installation. Ooffice would take several seconds longer launching, firefox took a good three seconds and even gnome-terminal took a second to launch.
I was very disappointed. I've used many distributions of GNU/Linux since 1999, on several architectures, and feel certain that the slow speed was not a fault of mine.
I don't need my desktop to be greased lightning, but when for once I have good hardware I want my OS to be snappy. Ubuntu just wasn't.
Hopefully this will be fixed until july 1. I'll give Dapper another try then.
I was very disappointed. I've used many distributions of GNU/Linux since 1999, on several architectures, and feel certain that the slow speed was not a fault of mine.
I don't need my desktop to be greased lightning, but when for once I have good hardware I want my OS to be snappy. Ubuntu just wasn't.
Hopefully this will be fixed until july 1. I'll give Dapper another try then.
Agreed. If the author of this article thinks a 1.58GHz Sempron 2300 with 512MB of RAM is a low-end system, then he's just spoiled.
Since your pc is so slow, it takes so long to compile the packages from source. When you update your installation, it's an endless wait. I have a PIII 500mhz, 256m ram old pc at home. I tried to use gentoo but eventually gave up. I can not afford serveral hours waiting for a slight speed difference when it is running. Also tried untuntu. Yes, it's slow on old systems. Now, I have slackware 10.2 running on my old pc. It's always running in text mode. This is the best I can get. It's fast, easy to use/maintain and very very stable. No compaints for slackware.
Have you tried ccache? I compiled KDE 3.5.1 overnight this time (rather than the 33 hours at first). Night time is a good time to emerge --update --deep world. I usually stop the download of the next package when I need to use my computer.
I usually don't upgrade everything in my system every week. I wait about 3 months and then upgrade.
Other then my resources dropping and the system slowing down a little, it's not very bad.
I usually don't upgrade everything in my system every week. I wait about 3 months and then upgrade.
Other then my resources dropping and the system slowing down a little, it's not very bad.
No, I haven't. I just checked the main page. It looks like very cool. I will try it later. Although I like gentoo very much, I still don't think it's for a slow pc. I would run it on a much faster pc, maybe an AMD64 box.
Thx for ccache. Good stuff.
Thx for ccache. Good stuff.
I never update the whole system
every week I run glsa-check -l to list all security updates and then glsa-check -f security-number to install the fix
every week I run glsa-check -l to list all security updates and then glsa-check -f security-number to install the fix
glsa-check is just what I've been looking for.
*updates system*
*updates system*
You know, I've been using packaged distros since 486s (like, RH5.1 on 486-80/16Mb) and not exactly low-spec systems like p133/96Mb/430HX.
Guess what? It was quite a sorrow several years ago to pull that system away and replace it with powerful Athlon 650 with 256 megs. Even if that system would be blazing fast, couple years ago builds became faster and FPS higher on AXP2500+/NF2/2x256Mb.
And I don't think it's a low spec system, even if it is by today's street standards.
Just think, I was comfortable at *every* one of them since p133. You're not comfortable with a bunch of distros on quite memory-equipped (and otherwise fast) machine.
Maybe it's not distro's problem? Maybe the competence isn't in praying moronically to "compile it on ya system, get fast"? Debian folks were annoyed by Gentoo crowd enough to perform tests and debunk that particular gentooish myth.
I've changed WGS Linux Pro and aforementioned RH5.1 for Black Cat Linux (local RH clone) and later settled with ALT Linux which is powering every server and desktop I'm responsible for by now. It wasn't due to speed, rather quite different matters including "how much stuff do I need to (re)build by hand for all this to perform as I like", along decreasing the footwork of course. Speed was never really an issue as much as I like it.
So be so kind and reconsider things before going with stuff like this to press. It's not exactly useful to newcomers to learn that they must (sic) mess with building things just to get their quite modern hardware to speed; it's fun to me to skim your article, see above why.
Failing to create at least some swap is quite a feature of incompetent installations, btw.
--
Michael Shigorin
shigorin/gmail\com
Guess what? It was quite a sorrow several years ago to pull that system away and replace it with powerful Athlon 650 with 256 megs. Even if that system would be blazing fast, couple years ago builds became faster and FPS higher on AXP2500+/NF2/2x256Mb.
And I don't think it's a low spec system, even if it is by today's street standards.
Just think, I was comfortable at *every* one of them since p133. You're not comfortable with a bunch of distros on quite memory-equipped (and otherwise fast) machine.
Maybe it's not distro's problem? Maybe the competence isn't in praying moronically to "compile it on ya system, get fast"? Debian folks were annoyed by Gentoo crowd enough to perform tests and debunk that particular gentooish myth.
I've changed WGS Linux Pro and aforementioned RH5.1 for Black Cat Linux (local RH clone) and later settled with ALT Linux which is powering every server and desktop I'm responsible for by now. It wasn't due to speed, rather quite different matters including "how much stuff do I need to (re)build by hand for all this to perform as I like", along decreasing the footwork of course. Speed was never really an issue as much as I like it.
So be so kind and reconsider things before going with stuff like this to press. It's not exactly useful to newcomers to learn that they must (sic) mess with building things just to get their quite modern hardware to speed; it's fun to me to skim your article, see above why.
Failing to create at least some swap is quite a feature of incompetent installations, btw.
--
Michael Shigorin
shigorin/gmail\com
You have a lot of good points, I must mention though, that this was not directed at newcomers. If you're tired of something that doesn't work good on your system, try gentoo. If that doesn't work, there's a truck load of other distro's that I would like to see reviewed too.
Gentoo didn't work out of the box, there was a lot of configuration that wasn't necessary unless you wanted the speed that I did.
Gentoo didn't work out of the box, there was a lot of configuration that wasn't necessary unless you wanted the speed that I did.
> I must mention though, that this was not directed at newcomers
It is exactly why I wondered aloud -- whom is this article for? Those who know a bit their way around Linux distros would likely find more than one laughable point (I don't pretend to be a guru-stuff, but even I see quite a few). Those who don't are more likely to be misinformed by this article.
> If you're tired of something that doesn't work good on your system
*I* *am* *not*.
Instead, I am tired of gentoo maniacs who try wildly to share their false hope that hours spent for rebuilding software will pay, even when the opposite is proven constantly.
If you like your toys, so be it -- no one has the right to deprive you of them. But please be honest and don't screw other folks, be they newcomers or not overly so, with false statements.
> Gentoo didn't work out of the box
On my systems, ALT Linux always Just Works (TM) right from the start. Maybe it has to do with me being a bit picky about hardware but seems like it's mostly the case for lots of people out there.
Big fat WARNING: english-speaking community around it is next to zero (even if it exists), although russian-speaking one is very strong. So most resources are in Russian, too.
It's just not that "global". Still I wonder reading testimonials to e.g. Ubuntu which is quite inferior as a consumer distro to ours IMHO (regarding hardware support, too).
Oh well. Please be honest and don't fall that easy for anything they tell you, be it "it will work absolutely best of all after night's recompiling!!!" or whatever I might whisper. Don't hesitate to employ your own head to tell what's worth it from what's not, it's just what heads are for.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-)
Good luck!
--
Michael Shigorin
It is exactly why I wondered aloud -- whom is this article for? Those who know a bit their way around Linux distros would likely find more than one laughable point (I don't pretend to be a guru-stuff, but even I see quite a few). Those who don't are more likely to be misinformed by this article.
> If you're tired of something that doesn't work good on your system
*I* *am* *not*.
Instead, I am tired of gentoo maniacs who try wildly to share their false hope that hours spent for rebuilding software will pay, even when the opposite is proven constantly.
If you like your toys, so be it -- no one has the right to deprive you of them. But please be honest and don't screw other folks, be they newcomers or not overly so, with false statements.
> Gentoo didn't work out of the box
On my systems, ALT Linux always Just Works (TM) right from the start. Maybe it has to do with me being a bit picky about hardware but seems like it's mostly the case for lots of people out there.
Big fat WARNING: english-speaking community around it is next to zero (even if it exists), although russian-speaking one is very strong. So most resources are in Russian, too.
It's just not that "global". Still I wonder reading testimonials to e.g. Ubuntu which is quite inferior as a consumer distro to ours IMHO (regarding hardware support, too).
Oh well. Please be honest and don't fall that easy for anything they tell you, be it "it will work absolutely best of all after night's recompiling!!!" or whatever I might whisper. Don't hesitate to employ your own head to tell what's worth it from what's not, it's just what heads are for.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-)
Good luck!
--
Michael Shigorin
Big fat WARNING: english-speaking community around it is next to zero (even if it exists), although russian-speaking one is very strong. So most resources are in Russian, too.
Nu i chto? Ne uzh to ty dazhe po-russki ne bachesh'?! Ashche li ni - to NAUCHIS!
Nu i chto? Ne uzh to ty dazhe po-russki ne bachesh'?! Ashche li ni - to NAUCHIS!
> So what? Can't you even see Russian? Even if so -- LEARN!
Oh relax. Russian is my native language and in fact I'm ALT Linux Team member since 2001.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;-)
Tak sho nya treba!
--
Michael Shigorin
mike/altlinux.org
Oh relax. Russian is my native language and in fact I'm ALT Linux Team member since 2001.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;-)
Tak sho nya treba!
--
Michael Shigorin
mike/altlinux.org
You have just ridiculed yourself with your "translation". Except that the Russian poster was careful enough to include some slang in his post which, obviously, you could not translate. LOL.
(If Russian were your native language you would know how to translate "bachesh")
Misha - byl by ty russkii, to svoi iasyk ne zabyl by. Letraiot!
(If Russian were your native language you would know how to translate "bachesh")
Misha - byl by ty russkii, to svoi iasyk ne zabyl by. Letraiot!
> Instead, I am tired of gentoo maniacs who try wildly to share their false hope that hours spent for rebuilding software will pay, even when the opposite is proven constantly.
On my system, binary packages were slow, custom compiled packages were faster. It may not be the case for your system, but it was for mine.
Nothing Just Works because it's made so that you make it work the way you want it to. Which takes time. For me though it was a time saver in the end. Everything is just the way I want it, and when I upgrade, it stays that way 80% of the time.
It took me a long time to configure stuff to work faster.
ALT Linux... I must try that<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)
more real Gentoo selling points; ALT Linux links
Posted by: Anonymous Coward on March 23, 2006 06:35 PM
> On my system, binary packages were slow,
> custom compiled packages were faster.
I didn't tell it is never the case, only that the binary packages can be different too and that even Debian's i386 builds were *benchmarked* to perform similarly (and sometimes even outperform) Gentoo's custom builds.
More experienced Gentoo folks tend to discourage those touting the distro for "optimization", they've bitten this bullet. So they talk of very reasonable security team response time and unique USE flags which are more interesting selling points for admins and desktop/kinda-embedded tweakers. Hint, hint<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;-)
> Nothing Just Works
Oh maybe on your systems. On mine, video, audio, network and such basic stuff uses to Just Work as a matter of fact.
> so that you make it work the way you want it to. Which takes time.
Indeed, but the less overall time spent on configuring the system *up to roughly the same level*, the better. I tend to differentiate distros on "how much time spent from bare iron to basically workable system", too (for several years by now).
> and when I upgrade, it stays that way 80% of the time.
> It took me a long time to configure stuff to work faster.
I guess... have spent quite a lot of time on tweaking p133<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;-) but then my packaged Linux helped me build reasonable systems for a living, bringing in reasonable money and not taking up all of my -- and people's -- time. So Athlon 650 was bought entirely on money earned with direct Linux involvement.
> ALT Linux... I must try that<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)
Well if you do, then here's mailing list:
<a href="http://lists.altlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/community-en" title="altlinux.org">http://lists.altlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/commun<nobr>i<wbr></nobr> ty-en</a altlinux.org>
Some history:
<a href="http://distrowatch.com/altlinux" title="distrowatch.com">http://distrowatch.com/altlinux</a distrowatch.com>
and here are previous and latest desktop ISOs:
<a href="ftp://ftp.altlinux.org/pub/distributions/ALTLinux/ISO/Compact-2.3-en.iso" title="altlinux.org">ftp://ftp.altlinux.org/pub/distributions/ALTLinux<nobr>/<wbr></nobr> ISO/Compact-2.3-en.iso</a altlinux.org> (Euro build)
<a href="ftp://ftp.altlinux.org/pub/distributions/ALTLinux/3.0/iso/compact-3.0.4.iso" title="altlinux.org">ftp://ftp.altlinux.org/pub/distributions/ALTLinux<nobr>/<wbr></nobr> 3.0/iso/compact-3.0.4.iso</a altlinux.org> (install CD)
<a href="ftp://ftp.altlinux.org/pub/distributions/ALTLinux/3.0/iso/travelcd-3.0.4.iso" title="altlinux.org">ftp://ftp.altlinux.org/pub/distributions/ALTLinux<nobr>/<wbr></nobr> 3.0/iso/travelcd-3.0.4.iso</a altlinux.org> (LiveCD)
In any case, it's me to blame when it slurps all your coffee.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;-)
--
Michael Shigorin
mike/altlinux.org
> custom compiled packages were faster.
I didn't tell it is never the case, only that the binary packages can be different too and that even Debian's i386 builds were *benchmarked* to perform similarly (and sometimes even outperform) Gentoo's custom builds.
More experienced Gentoo folks tend to discourage those touting the distro for "optimization", they've bitten this bullet. So they talk of very reasonable security team response time and unique USE flags which are more interesting selling points for admins and desktop/kinda-embedded tweakers. Hint, hint<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;-)
> Nothing Just Works
Oh maybe on your systems. On mine, video, audio, network and such basic stuff uses to Just Work as a matter of fact.
> so that you make it work the way you want it to. Which takes time.
Indeed, but the less overall time spent on configuring the system *up to roughly the same level*, the better. I tend to differentiate distros on "how much time spent from bare iron to basically workable system", too (for several years by now).
> and when I upgrade, it stays that way 80% of the time.
> It took me a long time to configure stuff to work faster.
I guess... have spent quite a lot of time on tweaking p133<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;-) but then my packaged Linux helped me build reasonable systems for a living, bringing in reasonable money and not taking up all of my -- and people's -- time. So Athlon 650 was bought entirely on money earned with direct Linux involvement.
> ALT Linux... I must try that<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)
Well if you do, then here's mailing list:
<a href="http://lists.altlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/community-en" title="altlinux.org">http://lists.altlinux.org/mailman/listinfo/commun<nobr>i<wbr></nobr> ty-en</a altlinux.org>
Some history:
<a href="http://distrowatch.com/altlinux" title="distrowatch.com">http://distrowatch.com/altlinux</a distrowatch.com>
and here are previous and latest desktop ISOs:
<a href="ftp://ftp.altlinux.org/pub/distributions/ALTLinux/ISO/Compact-2.3-en.iso" title="altlinux.org">ftp://ftp.altlinux.org/pub/distributions/ALTLinux<nobr>/<wbr></nobr> ISO/Compact-2.3-en.iso</a altlinux.org> (Euro build)
<a href="ftp://ftp.altlinux.org/pub/distributions/ALTLinux/3.0/iso/compact-3.0.4.iso" title="altlinux.org">ftp://ftp.altlinux.org/pub/distributions/ALTLinux<nobr>/<wbr></nobr> 3.0/iso/compact-3.0.4.iso</a altlinux.org> (install CD)
<a href="ftp://ftp.altlinux.org/pub/distributions/ALTLinux/3.0/iso/travelcd-3.0.4.iso" title="altlinux.org">ftp://ftp.altlinux.org/pub/distributions/ALTLinux<nobr>/<wbr></nobr> 3.0/iso/travelcd-3.0.4.iso</a altlinux.org> (LiveCD)
In any case, it's me to blame when it slurps all your coffee.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;-)
--
Michael Shigorin
mike/altlinux.org
Re:more real Gentoo selling points; ALT Linux link
Posted by: Anonymous Coward on March 24, 2006 04:14 AM
Just wanted to point out, Michael, that when CPUFreak91 says that "nothing just works" he was speaking specifically about Gentoo because it is to a degree a 'Do it yourself' distro. He wasn't saying that no other distro 'just works.' He was saying that this is not one of Gentoo's points of appeal.
That being said, in my experience it is fairly likely that you will have to do at least some minor tweak no matter what Linux distribution or other operating system you use (with the possible exception of a combination hardware/software package like a Mac).
By the way, I tried out ALT Linux once a few years ago, and it seemed pretty good. I was impressed with the variety of packages in Sysiphus. Of course the documentation was primarily in Russian, which I don't speak, so that was a bit of a wrench in the works for me. I'm sure it's moved ahead much since then. I may take a look at it again sometime.
That being said, in my experience it is fairly likely that you will have to do at least some minor tweak no matter what Linux distribution or other operating system you use (with the possible exception of a combination hardware/software package like a Mac).
By the way, I tried out ALT Linux once a few years ago, and it seemed pretty good. I was impressed with the variety of packages in Sysiphus. Of course the documentation was primarily in Russian, which I don't speak, so that was a bit of a wrench in the works for me. I'm sure it's moved ahead much since then. I may take a look at it again sometime.
I agree with the idea that the article misstates a lot of facts. First, I don't know when a 1.85GHz CPU became a low end system. I also agree that using a computer that has only 512 MB of RAM and has no swap file is a sign of incompetence. If the author had doubled the RAM or provided a swap file of, let's say, 1 GB or even 512 MB, the computer would have performed better. I have 1GB of RAM in most of my computers and they only start to swap a little bit after running continuously several days. Evidently I have just the right amount of RAM for my environment.
I have also found that the claim that Gentoo is a lot faster than an RPM or DEB distribution is false. It is true that you can optimize the code for your CPU and I have done that with Gentoo. I still find that the performance is indistinguishable from SuSE and Debian. Plus, you can recompile the kernel with SuSE, Debian, Red Hat, and any distribution that includes the kernel and module source files. So that would eliminate any kernel level performance enhancement with Gentoo, if there was one, which I would say there isn't.
Lastly when I recently installed KDE on my Gentoo system it ran for 8 hours. Of that time, only about 0.00001 percent of the time was spent downloading the files. I have a fast Internet connection. The rest of the time was spent compiling, linking, and moving files around. Naturally that included hundreds, of not thousands, of applications that Gentoo includes in its metapackage for KDE. Nevertheless, once the dust settled, I found that the performance was very comparable to my SuSE and Debian systems.
I have also found that the claim that Gentoo is a lot faster than an RPM or DEB distribution is false. It is true that you can optimize the code for your CPU and I have done that with Gentoo. I still find that the performance is indistinguishable from SuSE and Debian. Plus, you can recompile the kernel with SuSE, Debian, Red Hat, and any distribution that includes the kernel and module source files. So that would eliminate any kernel level performance enhancement with Gentoo, if there was one, which I would say there isn't.
Lastly when I recently installed KDE on my Gentoo system it ran for 8 hours. Of that time, only about 0.00001 percent of the time was spent downloading the files. I have a fast Internet connection. The rest of the time was spent compiling, linking, and moving files around. Naturally that included hundreds, of not thousands, of applications that Gentoo includes in its metapackage for KDE. Nevertheless, once the dust settled, I found that the performance was very comparable to my SuSE and Debian systems.
Agreed. I don't understand why newsforge let this article out. They should at least review it before publishing in press.
I've been using Linux for about six years. RedHat was a distro of choice all those years on my desktop and laptop computers, until I met Gentoo.
It's a beautifull and lively creature. The reason why it's lively is because it's constantly updateable system. You can always be in sync with the most recent package releases. In most of the cases, updating your system is transparent meaning that you don't lose productivity time (those who have dead lines will know what I'm talking about).
The reason why it's beautiful, it's just is. Linux is beautiful regardless of the distro. Gentoo just makes it special.
I would not suggest Gentoo to someone who just figured that he/she has nothing to do for a next couple of hours and would like to replace M$ XP on their laptop. But anyone who is comfortable with using command prompt (you need it to install the system) and has some Linux knowledge could probably enjoy Gentoo distro on their computer.
All in all, Gentoo is a perfect marriage of flexibility, simplicity and grace.
Gentoo guys, great job! Your job is really appreciated.
By the way, I don't get paid for saying all this.
The hardware I’m running Gentoo on is <a href="http://ca.lge.com/en/prodmodeldetail.do?actType=search&page=1&modelCategoryId=040201&categoryId=040201&parentId=&modelCodeDisplay=LM50&modelNameLocal=&model=Select+a+model" title="lge.com">LG LM50 - CVWU1 laptop</a lge.com>.
I've used Gentoo for a few years and have been using Ubuntu for a little while now and they both work good in their respective area of focus.
Gentoo is great for installing only what you want and optimizing it for your system but it takes longer to get everything set up "just right". I booting up to a command line so I could choose on the fly which desktop environment I wanted to use (tried a number of them), or to install without any resources being used up for a DE/WM!
Ubuntu is good for quick installs so long as you're happy with Gnome and the default programs being installed (yes, you can (un)install programs as you wish but kinda works against the "quick install" aspect).
I have a slower PC (P3 500MHz w/256MB Ram) with Gentoo and the slower chip does rears it's ugly head during compiling and other chip-intensive activities but the truly-long installs are few and far between (how many times do you install KDE?).
Being on dial-up internet I often run something like
# emerge --fetchonly program<nobr> <wbr></nobr>// just download
# killall pppd<nobr> <wbr></nobr>// close internet
(optionally to install then shutdown)
# emerge program<nobr> <wbr></nobr>// install
# shutdown -h now<nobr> <wbr></nobr>// shutdown system
I could go to bed and let it do its thing. When the PC shuts down I know it's done.
I have to mention, though, that the Available documentation and Gentoo Forums ROCK! Most of my questions have been answered in a manner I can follow, and those that aren't answered I get quick and pretty good responses in the Forums!
Gentoo is great for installing only what you want and optimizing it for your system but it takes longer to get everything set up "just right". I booting up to a command line so I could choose on the fly which desktop environment I wanted to use (tried a number of them), or to install without any resources being used up for a DE/WM!
Ubuntu is good for quick installs so long as you're happy with Gnome and the default programs being installed (yes, you can (un)install programs as you wish but kinda works against the "quick install" aspect).
I have a slower PC (P3 500MHz w/256MB Ram) with Gentoo and the slower chip does rears it's ugly head during compiling and other chip-intensive activities but the truly-long installs are few and far between (how many times do you install KDE?).
Being on dial-up internet I often run something like
# emerge --fetchonly program<nobr> <wbr></nobr>// just download
# killall pppd<nobr> <wbr></nobr>// close internet
(optionally to install then shutdown)
# emerge program<nobr> <wbr></nobr>// install
# shutdown -h now<nobr> <wbr></nobr>// shutdown system
I could go to bed and let it do its thing. When the PC shuts down I know it's done.
I have to mention, though, that the Available documentation and Gentoo Forums ROCK! Most of my questions have been answered in a manner I can follow, and those that aren't answered I get quick and pretty good responses in the Forums!
I switched back and forth a few times between several different distros, landed on Gentoo for the simple fact that most of the time, newer versions of software show up quickly in portage. THis is especially nice when dealing with AMD64 or Mythtv. Speed isn't always the issue, but I bet being able to builld more stripped down versions of programs would be good for older systems- get only what you want. I don't mind the compile times, as they can be set to whatever nicelevel you want, and thus happen in the background. If that's too hard, you can always set it to compile while you are away from computer - work, sleep.
After I got my base Gentoo system set up, I decided to install KDE 3.5.0 and GNOME Display Manager (GDM). I added the kde and gnome keywords to my<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/etc/make.conf file and then typed emerge kde && emerge gdm.
That's not all you did; KDE 3.5 hasn't been marked stable yet on any architecture. You must have added "~x86" to your<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/etc/make.conf, or at least you added it to your<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/etc/portage/package.keywords file.
That's not all you did; KDE 3.5 hasn't been marked stable yet on any architecture. You must have added "~x86" to your<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/etc/make.conf, or at least you added it to your<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/etc/portage/package.keywords file.
I'm guessing when he said "keywords" he meant "USE flags"
No, you can't emerge unstable packages (like KDE 3.5) by changing your USE flags. You have to either change your ACCEPT_KEYWORDS in<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/etc/make.conf, or add the package and the ~arch keyword to<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/etc/portage/package.keywords.
Oh yes, anon, you're right; he must have meant "USE flags."
True, but I didn't have to mention it.
It took forever to figure out how to unmask 3.5.1 in<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/etc/package.unmask so I settled for adding it to the keywords file.
It took forever to figure out how to unmask 3.5.1 in<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/etc/package.unmask so I settled for adding it to the keywords file.
No, you did it right. KDE 3.5 is keyword masked. This is different from a hard mask--for instance, xorg-x11 7.0 is hard masked. To unmask keyword-masked packages, use the<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/etc/portage/package.keywords file. To unmask hard masked packages, use<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/etc/package.unmask.
Adding to the confusion is that, to use most hard-masked packages on an otherwise stable system, you have to monkey with both package.unmask and package.keywords.
You really should read the Gentoo Handbook section on "Mixing Software Branches." This could be explained better though.
Adding to the confusion is that, to use most hard-masked packages on an otherwise stable system, you have to monkey with both package.unmask and package.keywords.
You really should read the Gentoo Handbook section on "Mixing Software Branches." This could be explained better though.
I heard good things about Gentoo.
That it gives good performance so you dont have to wait, but in order to get that good performance you have to compile stuff from scratch which does take alot of time and you have to wait.
Maybe others like it, but I dont want to wait 33 hours for it to install.
That it gives good performance so you dont have to wait, but in order to get that good performance you have to compile stuff from scratch which does take alot of time and you have to wait.
Maybe others like it, but I dont want to wait 33 hours for it to install.
most of the cases you'll need only 5-10 minutes compile time.
Gentoo has more applications in their database than anyone; if you want the latest and greatest, your only choice is gentoo. If you rather wait for months for other distros to include the app you want, then pick a distro other than gentoo.
The only time I spend long time compiling is when I install X11, KDE/Gnome; and it only happens once a year. Other big apps such as openoffice or firefox, you don't need to compile under gentoo, just install the binary package instead.
Gentoo has more applications in their database than anyone; if you want the latest and greatest, your only choice is gentoo. If you rather wait for months for other distros to include the app you want, then pick a distro other than gentoo.
The only time I spend long time compiling is when I install X11, KDE/Gnome; and it only happens once a year. Other big apps such as openoffice or firefox, you don't need to compile under gentoo, just install the binary package instead.
Take the lazy way out and install Kororaa... (Less than 2 hrs for a system optimized for your cpu) From there on out it is basically Gentoo...
Worked great for me - I recently picked up a Sempron 64 and wanted amd64 distro (take advantage of additional registers, etc) but did not want to take the time to build completely from scratch...
(I HIGHLY recommend that if you are a programmer who REALLY likes Linux that you should do the full install from scratch at least once... You get some backgound Linux info from the EXCELLENT gentoo docs that might otherwise take a year or two to collect if you only use the "friendly" installers that do not explain exactly what is happening where and why...)
Worked great for me - I recently picked up a Sempron 64 and wanted amd64 distro (take advantage of additional registers, etc) but did not want to take the time to build completely from scratch...
(I HIGHLY recommend that if you are a programmer who REALLY likes Linux that you should do the full install from scratch at least once... You get some backgound Linux info from the EXCELLENT gentoo docs that might otherwise take a year or two to collect if you only use the "friendly" installers that do not explain exactly what is happening where and why...)
Think of it this way. Sacriffice 1 hour of compiling for 1 extra minute of speed/whatever through out the year. That totals to 6 hours of time saved in 1 year. In my case it saved knuckle pain as I tend to puch the monitor when things lock up.
I tried Ubuntu but it was too slow for my low-end desktop, a 32-bit 1.58GHz Sempron 2300 with 512MB of RAM and no swap file
I run Debian-Sarge with KDE and OpenOffice on a 300MHz computer with 128 RAM and a working swap.
Jeez - I wish I had your hardware... (sigh)
Forget Ubuntu - run Kanotix and you will have no problems.
I run Debian-Sarge with KDE and OpenOffice on a 300MHz computer with 128 RAM and a working swap.
Jeez - I wish I had your hardware... (sigh)
Forget Ubuntu - run Kanotix and you will have no problems.
Ubuntu was a little slow for me when i ran my windows based games.
After reading the Ubuntu forums a came across Xubuntu which is a much more simple version of Ubuntu and Runs super fast. I get great FPS in games and when i complie a program it takes like no time.
After reading the Ubuntu forums a came across Xubuntu which is a much more simple version of Ubuntu and Runs super fast. I get great FPS in games and when i complie a program it takes like no time.
It is just the usual Ubuntu with XFCE instead of Gnome.
I'm a long-time user of FreeBSD (still have it running on a Pentium MMX 200 with 64MB RAM... beat that), and found Gentoo to be a nice cross between a Linux system with FreeBSD's ports system. As for server use, I do have Gentoo running on an FTP server I own (fairly heavy traffic) with rarely ever any problems. I'm still a solid FreeBSD user, but Gentoo gave me a good impression of Linux.
I'm a long-time user of FreeBSD (still have it running on a Pentium MMX 200 with 64MB RAM... beat that)
I will. I have Gentoo running on a 133 with 44MB or RAM. It was a fully functioning IRC server for a year. It did take me a week to install but I don't think any of the fatter distributions would have worked.
When did 1.58GHz become slow hardware? I must be hanging with luddites, cuz that sounds pretty peppy from my 700M machine...
yep - ludites<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)
I can't tolerate anything slower than around 3GHz.....but I think winxp has made me like that<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;)
I can't tolerate anything slower than around 3GHz.....but I think winxp has made me like that<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;)
I must be practically Amish, then. My 500mhz Dell suits me just fine...
I smiled when I read this! I couldn't agree more! I still buy brand new 2.0GHZ processors and motherboards. I'm getting into the VIA Epia 1Ghz low power stuff too. I was recently given a 1.3Ghz P4 from someone else that thought it was slow. They wanted me to recycle it for parts. Hell, I ripped everything out of a the crappy looking Compaq case and put it into something a little more acceptable looking and now it's my main computer! Did I mention it was free!!! The only thing I've paid for is the electricity to run the thing although I looking for ways around that as well! Oh, it runs Arch Linux fast as stink!
That is my fastest computer... Sister in law had P3 that quit working and I offered to give her one of my old motherboards when I replaced it. $130 for cpu and motherboard because I was too impatient to wait for computer show...
I think that is phenomenal performance for the price... (On board video is slower than I would like but works fine with Linux) Also has sound and gig eth and usb2 on board...
I think that is phenomenal performance for the price... (On board video is slower than I would like but works fine with Linux) Also has sound and gig eth and usb2 on board...
I'm a gamer. I run resource intensive games on *shiver* windows and the cutscenes and stuff don't play right. (A new video card would help too)
> I'm a gamer.
Oh, that explains a lot. But then you really need proper Athlon and not Somepron it seems.
> A new video card would help too
BTW, NVIDIA docs have quite a lot of information on tweaking it (their defaults are quite conservative these days). And if you have less than GeForce 6 series (like, GF4), you might be better off with 1.0-4496 drivers (if you manage to build them with your current kernel; nv_lite might help).
If your cooling is proper then nvclock might help too but my first NVIDIA (TNT2 Vanta) would eventually get its radiator melt off from it (and hang the system up). GF2 and GF4 have occasionally seen overclocking but 4496 effect was much better (newer drivers are slower). Now I own old and crappy (cough) FX5200/128M and it's slower than should be with 1.0-7676.
All of this info is available on our mailing lists and maybe on the faq, being asked once or twice a year at least.
--
Michael Shigorin
mike/altlinux.org
Oh, that explains a lot. But then you really need proper Athlon and not Somepron it seems.
> A new video card would help too
BTW, NVIDIA docs have quite a lot of information on tweaking it (their defaults are quite conservative these days). And if you have less than GeForce 6 series (like, GF4), you might be better off with 1.0-4496 drivers (if you manage to build them with your current kernel; nv_lite might help).
If your cooling is proper then nvclock might help too but my first NVIDIA (TNT2 Vanta) would eventually get its radiator melt off from it (and hang the system up). GF2 and GF4 have occasionally seen overclocking but 4496 effect was much better (newer drivers are slower). Now I own old and crappy (cough) FX5200/128M and it's slower than should be with 1.0-7676.
All of this info is available on our mailing lists and maybe on the faq, being asked once or twice a year at least.
--
Michael Shigorin
mike/altlinux.org
I run Gentoo on two desktops and a server.
Cons:
Gentoo is noticeably faster on my desktop than the Mandriva distribution that preceded it. But I've got the time and inclination to tweak the system... you might want to do something else with ~your~ time. I wouldn't blame you a bit.
Pros:
- Portage is really quite nice. Dependencies are handled well (generally) and installing a new package is a one-command job.
- You can compile out things that you have no use for. I get rid of all the spellcheckers, which I find annoying, and eliminate kde dependencies since I prefer gnome. I ditched X support in emacs. I lost fortran and IPV6 support and other dreck. On an old machine, these have a cumulative effect.
- You can compile in stuff you want: on my desktops I added in threading and NPTL, gnome and gtk support, ALSA and other stuff.
- You can compile for size, or speed. My copy of the Linux kernel decreased in size by about a megabyte when I used -Os. Otherwise I use -O2 on my old machines and -O3 on the dual-core machine.
- The concept of operating system releases is irrelevant; the update stream is continuous. I've never had to drive a new release of Gentoo under the old.
- Security updates are prompt.
- The Gentoo fora are friendly and responsive.
Cons:
- The Portage maintainers do screw up from time to time, and an application will break after you update it. The fix is generally quick to appear on the forums, but it can be an PITA just the same. I suggest you not update all that frequently -- let the pioneers take the arrows.
- Gentoo is not for newbs. Get your Linux experience elsewhere first (I suggest Debian, but Ubuntu is a better choice if you want lots of handholding). Expect to spend time in the shell prompt if you install Gentoo. Expect to read the Gentoo Handbook. I mean really, read it.
- Emerge can take for-freaking-ever. On my 350MHz Coppermine machine it takes 38 hours to compile OpenOffice. (I'm doing it just this moment, as a matter of fact.) You want instant gratification, you should install binaries.
Gentoo is noticeably faster on my desktop than the Mandriva distribution that preceded it. But I've got the time and inclination to tweak the system... you might want to do something else with ~your~ time. I wouldn't blame you a bit.
first - greetings colleague: I am also running GNU/Linux on a 300MHz Coppermine.
now to my bone with your post: comparing Gentoo and *Mandrake* in terms of speed? That's really not very telling.
How would you compare Gentoo to DEBIAN?! I would be most surprized if you saw a difference between the two and if you did see one, I am not sure which one would be faster...
now to my bone with your post: comparing Gentoo and *Mandrake* in terms of speed? That's really not very telling.
How would you compare Gentoo to DEBIAN?! I would be most surprized if you saw a difference between the two and if you did see one, I am not sure which one would be faster...
next time emerge openoffice-bin and save yourself the headache....
I coulnd't agree more. Gentoo is nice and probably the best choice for everyone that wants to tweak their systems from the beginning to the end. It's not for everyone. If someone does not take their time to read docs/man pages/forums etc. than is not going to get all that Gentoo has to offer and would end up with the system that runs simillar or even slower than other distros.
Reason I use Gentoo is that IMHO portage (Gentoo install system) is the best way to install software that is not in the respository. I believe this is easier to compile/install with it using your "local overlay" than it would be with other distros.
Reason agaist it would be smaller developer involvment than with other distros. Gentoo is viewed as bleading edge, but sinse the number of packages portage has to offer grew to thousands they lack the man power to bring several things even into testing branch that are already present within other distros (eg. modular X.org, java 1.5 as default JDK) Let's see how long it would take for the Gnome 2.14 to get there.
Reason I use Gentoo is that IMHO portage (Gentoo install system) is the best way to install software that is not in the respository. I believe this is easier to compile/install with it using your "local overlay" than it would be with other distros.
Reason agaist it would be smaller developer involvment than with other distros. Gentoo is viewed as bleading edge, but sinse the number of packages portage has to offer grew to thousands they lack the man power to bring several things even into testing branch that are already present within other distros (eg. modular X.org, java 1.5 as default JDK) Let's see how long it would take for the Gnome 2.14 to get there.
Here we are in 2006 still supporting a very old & slow CPU, at the cost of underperforming on newer CPUs. Gentoo gets around this by compiling everything - but it's mind numbingly slow to do this, and often you *need* an update right now - not overnight, so binaries are required.
It's going to be a weird world when Vista comes out compiled for 386! Do you really want to run directx 10 on a 386 ? (I don't even think you can find a mobo with a 386 & AGP so what's the point ?)
So I'd like to see linux lead the way & fork-off the 386/486/P1/P2....C'Mon! At least drop 386. Embedded controllers are the last bastion for 386/486 and they're supported by embedded linices already.
flame away.
It's going to be a weird world when Vista comes out compiled for 386! Do you really want to run directx 10 on a 386 ? (I don't even think you can find a mobo with a 386 & AGP so what's the point ?)
So I'd like to see linux lead the way & fork-off the 386/486/P1/P2....C'Mon! At least drop 386. Embedded controllers are the last bastion for 386/486 and they're supported by embedded linices already.
flame away.
Hey. Those who don't really care of 486s and 386s out there have built i586 stock packages for ages (ALT does this since at least 2001, maybe earlier).
> a mobo with a 386 & AGP
Won't even find 486/AGP, maybe 486/VLB.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:) Don't know the point, either.
> & fork-off the 386/486/P1/P2....
Hey. i686 is pretty OK, the main difference is kernel and PAE support (4+ Gb RAM). Those who are scary with i586 are to be running x86_64 by this time anyways (btw, ALT doen's have an official release on that yet although unstable arch exists and seems like this summer it will do).
--
Michael Shigorin
> a mobo with a 386 & AGP
Won't even find 486/AGP, maybe 486/VLB.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:) Don't know the point, either.
> & fork-off the 386/486/P1/P2....
Hey. i686 is pretty OK, the main difference is kernel and PAE support (4+ Gb RAM). Those who are scary with i586 are to be running x86_64 by this time anyways (btw, ALT doen's have an official release on that yet although unstable arch exists and seems like this summer it will do).
--
Michael Shigorin
Gentoo already has. Since you compile from source, just as -march -mtune to your CFLAGS. You will now have a system that will no longer run on/as i386.
Frank Russo
frussogensparc src # uname -a
Linux frussogensparc 2.6.16-rc5-git15 #1 SMP PREEMPT Mon Mar 13 13:38:38 PST 2006 sparc64 sun4u GNU/Linux
Frank Russo
frussogensparc src # uname -a
Linux frussogensparc 2.6.16-rc5-git15 #1 SMP PREEMPT Mon Mar 13 13:38:38 PST 2006 sparc64 sun4u GNU/Linux
>It's going to be a weird world when Vista comes out compiled for 386! Do you really want to run directx 10 on a 386 ?
the point is, that packages compiled for 586 are slower on new (686 and 'above') systems than 386. -march=i585 should only be used on the plain pentium classic.
a good idea (and practised by arch linux, <a href="http://archlinux.org/" title="archlinux.org">http://archlinux.org/</a archlinux.org>, btw) is compiling everything for 686. this drops support for p1 (without or w/mmx) and the whole k5/k6 series of cpus. but c'mon, a 550 MHz K6-2 is not really slow.
that said, i think compiling debian, slackware etc for i386 is generally a good idea, although i'd compile distributions targeted on newer systems for i686.
cheers,
philipp
ps:
>Since you compile from source, just as -march -mtune to your CFLAGS.
-march implies -mtune<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)
the point is, that packages compiled for 586 are slower on new (686 and 'above') systems than 386. -march=i585 should only be used on the plain pentium classic.
a good idea (and practised by arch linux, <a href="http://archlinux.org/" title="archlinux.org">http://archlinux.org/</a archlinux.org>, btw) is compiling everything for 686. this drops support for p1 (without or w/mmx) and the whole k5/k6 series of cpus. but c'mon, a 550 MHz K6-2 is not really slow.
that said, i think compiling debian, slackware etc for i386 is generally a good idea, although i'd compile distributions targeted on newer systems for i686.
cheers,
philipp
ps:
>Since you compile from source, just as -march -mtune to your CFLAGS.
-march implies -mtune<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)
GENTOO 2005.1 INSTALLATION SCRIPT/WALK-THROUGH.
Interested in a script to walk you through a Gentoo Linux installation? Then click here:
<a href="http://linux.coconia.net/" title="coconia.net">http://linux.coconia.net/</a coconia.net>
I just tried the 2006 graphical installer and it has a heap of problems.
Even if you do not use the script the information on this page will make the installation much easier.
There are also instructions on HOWTO access and write to Windows XP/2000 (formatted with the NTFS) from Linux.
There is also code for JAVASCRIPT MOVIES (and a few to watch)
Also has a section on how to REMIX YOUR 14 Debian CDs as 2 DVDs and
A HOWTO on writing to Windows 2000/XP (NTFS formatted) from Linux.
Interested in a script to walk you through a Gentoo Linux installation? Then click here:
<a href="http://linux.coconia.net/" title="coconia.net">http://linux.coconia.net/</a coconia.net>
I just tried the 2006 graphical installer and it has a heap of problems.
Even if you do not use the script the information on this page will make the installation much easier.
There are also instructions on HOWTO access and write to Windows XP/2000 (formatted with the NTFS) from Linux.
There is also code for JAVASCRIPT MOVIES (and a few to watch)
Also has a section on how to REMIX YOUR 14 Debian CDs as 2 DVDs and
A HOWTO on writing to Windows 2000/XP (NTFS formatted) from Linux.
if you want the gentoo easy way installation try kororaa:
<a href="http://kororaa.org/" title="kororaa.org">http://kororaa.org/</a kororaa.org>
you'll get a running gentoo system in 1 h - 2 h
<a href="http://kororaa.org/" title="kororaa.org">http://kororaa.org/</a kororaa.org>
you'll get a running gentoo system in 1 h - 2 h
By the way, the Gentoo 2005.1 Installation Script/Walk Through, gets you a working Gentoo installation in about 30 minutes.
That assumes you already have the two 2005.1 CDs and the scripts and the instructions, though.
And the software is now about 8 months old.
Some things like Xfce haven't changed at all though.
That assumes you already have the two 2005.1 CDs and the scripts and the instructions, though.
And the software is now about 8 months old.
Some things like Xfce haven't changed at all though.
1. Don't use 'USE="aac" emerge xine'. Next time you update xine won't have AAC support.
2. Why not do 'emerge kde gdm' instead of 'emerge kde && emerge gdm'
2. Why not do 'emerge kde gdm' instead of 'emerge kde && emerge gdm'
My main reason for using gentoo is the updates. I've had the same gentoo installation for about 3 years, and I just don't see a day coming when I will need to do a "fresh install". Can other distros do it, I'm sure, but the ones I used (redhat, mandrake, and a couple minor players) there was always so many issues, that a fresh install, though irritating, was easier.
As for updates taking too long, big deal, I can still use my computer while it is updating. I even use kde while updating kde. My cutting edge hardware (850 Mhz athlon and copious 256 MB RAM) has no problem keeping up.
As for updates taking too long, big deal, I can still use my computer while it is updating. I even use kde while updating kde. My cutting edge hardware (850 Mhz athlon and copious 256 MB RAM) has no problem keeping up.
Sorry for seemingly catching that hype virus<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;-)... but: my home system is running for more than 3 years of continuous updates, I can't recall why exactly I've done fresh install ca. 2002/2003 (seems it was a new harddrive -- did I really screw up the previous system running since 2001?.. frequent power losses?.. don't remember).
Folks are living on our unstable (Sisyphus) since 2000--2001 and still alive.
I guess some Debian people would tell they live since 1996 or so, but just for the record -- upgrade-via-reinstall and "full install" types are the real reasons to blame Red Hat for not including more high-level tools than RPM with their RHL distros. These habits have screwed a lot of otherwise nice folks and a lot of otherwise robust systems...
apt-get really helps.
--
Michael Shigorin
mike/altlinux.org
Folks are living on our unstable (Sisyphus) since 2000--2001 and still alive.
I guess some Debian people would tell they live since 1996 or so, but just for the record -- upgrade-via-reinstall and "full install" types are the real reasons to blame Red Hat for not including more high-level tools than RPM with their RHL distros. These habits have screwed a lot of otherwise nice folks and a lot of otherwise robust systems...
apt-get really helps.
--
Michael Shigorin
mike/altlinux.org
You are correct in that this is an issue with many distributions. However, there are several other distributions that correctly update over a long period of time. Debian seems to have been the first. Then of course there are the Debian based distros such as Ubuntu/Kubuntu, Mepis, Kanotix, etc. Also there are other distributions that may use apt or another updater even though they are based on<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.rpm instead of<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.deb packages, like Turbolinux (if I'm remembering which correctly) ALT Linux, PCLinuxOS, and recent editions of SUSE (I am only familiar with this facility in the latter two by reputation since I have not tried them). There are also distributions that use an entirely different package format. For example, Arch Linux and Frugalware use Pacman and<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.fpm packages.
Interestingly enough, even Slackware can be version upgraded entirely manually more quickly and with fewer issues than Red Hat could the last time I looked, although I've heard that Fedora has improved the situation substantially, but I have not had the occasion to try it.
Interestingly enough, even Slackware can be version upgraded entirely manually more quickly and with fewer issues than Red Hat could the last time I looked, although I've heard that Fedora has improved the situation substantially, but I have not had the occasion to try it.
Ok, here is the deal. you don't use gentoo becuase it makes everything stupid fast, thats not the case. unless of course you know of some crazy sweet CXX and C flags that will make you slap your momma, but then your system will take a massive shit and you get to start over.
The freebsd user above had it right. the best part about gentoo is it just works so damn well. You have a system that in my opinion has taken concepts in the ports system and bettered them 10 fold.
I use gentoo because of amd64. every single app I have running is compiled for arch=k8, and though this limits me a bit in app choice and in some cases stability, after the kinks where gotten rid of, my system runs wonderfully. Where else could you get a native 64bit (from kernel/drivers to apps, mostly everything) linux distro that actually runs well.
If you have slow hardware, why would ubuntu and/or gentoo even cross your mind?! that Cyrix powered turd thats in everyone's basement isn't even going to be near a ubuntu or gentoo install cd, it will probably get slackware, or one of the 135124578078 other distros based off of it.
The freebsd user above had it right. the best part about gentoo is it just works so damn well. You have a system that in my opinion has taken concepts in the ports system and bettered them 10 fold.
I use gentoo because of amd64. every single app I have running is compiled for arch=k8, and though this limits me a bit in app choice and in some cases stability, after the kinks where gotten rid of, my system runs wonderfully. Where else could you get a native 64bit (from kernel/drivers to apps, mostly everything) linux distro that actually runs well.
If you have slow hardware, why would ubuntu and/or gentoo even cross your mind?! that Cyrix powered turd thats in everyone's basement isn't even going to be near a ubuntu or gentoo install cd, it will probably get slackware, or one of the 135124578078 other distros based off of it.
Ubuntu Slow?
Posted by: FrdPrefct on March 21, 2006 11:20 PMAs far as using Gentoo on a desktop, I personally wouldn't. It makes a great server os, however, if I want to upgrade KDE (for instance), I would have to sit there quite a while before my system is snappy again.
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