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Feature: Reviews
KDE 4.1 rocks the desktop
By Jeremy LaCroix
on
July 29, 2008 (9:00:00 AM)
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CommentsKDE 4.1 was finally released to the public today. After all the controversy since the release of KDE 4.0, I'm happy to announce that KDE 4.1 simply rocks.
KDE 4.1 packages are available for Kubuntu and several other popular distributions. If there are no prebuilt binaries yet for your distro of choice, you can compile the software from the available source packages. A live CD image is also available should you wish to try the new desktop without altering your existing installation.
The introduction of KDE 4 marked the introduction of the new Plasma desktop, which provides not only the panel that you interact with, but also widgets (or "plasmoids") that extended the desktop further. In KDE 4.1, one of the most welcome changes to Plasma is the return of multiple and resizable panels from KDE 3. Now you can configure your panels by clicking on the Plasma icon (by default it's on the right edge of the panel), which brings up a series of sliders for adjusting the panel's height and position. Also within this configuration control is the return of a way to reposition panel contents by simply grabbing objects with your mouse and pulling them to where you'd like them.
One of the most controversial announcements during the KDE 4.1 development cycle was the reported removal of icons for the desktop. In actuality, desktop icons are not missing from the new version, they're just handled differently. This version introduces a Folder View plasmoid, which is a container you can place on the desktop that can show the contents of any directory. Most distributions set one up in the default configuration to show the contents of the desktop folder, but you are no longer limited to having the contents of just the desktop folder displayed on your desktop -- you can add several instances of Folder View, each showing a different directory.
As far as eye candy, KDE 4.1 looks simply stunning. While its theme uses the same foundation as 4.0, the developers have improved it with many tweaks. Desktop plasmoids no longer have extremely thick borders, transparent objects appear cleaner, the KDE login manager and splash screens have a new theme, and a tweaked version of the Oxygen window border (called Ozone) is included and better blends into the styles. Plasma itself has also been given its own theme engine (separate from the KDE desktop theme) with several different themes already built in.
The default application roster contains the same lineup as before, with Konqueror as the default Web browser, Dolphin for file management, Gwenview handling image viewing, Kopete taking care of instant messaging, and JuK managing audio playlists. Although Konqueror doesn't seem to offer the same level of functionality (such as the number of available plugins) that Firefox and Opera do, it's still a solid app. Returning from KDE 3 for the first time in the KDE 4 cycle is Kontact and its related personal information management tools, as well as the KDE CD Player.
Some of the most notable new features in KDE 4.1 include the introduction of the minimalistic Dragon Player for videos, tree view and tabbed browsing features in Dolphin, and several improvements in Gwenview, such as a thumbnail bar and the repositioning of the rotate and full screen options to easier to reach places to minimize mouse movement.
With all of the new features, one might think the responsiveness of the KDE desktop would take a hit. In my tests, everything ran fast and smooth, even when I had six plasmoids in use and desktop effects turned on, even on a modest 1.6GHz laptop.
On the down side...
Not all of the improvements are clear winners. The new interfaces may take some getting used to by those accustomed to KDE 3. In addition, users with Nvidia graphics cards and proprietary drivers may notice slowdown when resizing windows or moving plasma widgets, although I did not experienced this during tests with my Nvidia hardware.
Finally, users are likely to miss Amarok 2.0 (at the time of this writing it's not yet completed) and a KDE 4 version of KnetworkManager.
KDE marks a triumphant return to full usability with the 4.1 release. I've read that some KDE 3 features still need to be ported to KDE 4, yet I'm hard pressed to think of anything missing, except for a way of hiding the panel. The developers have done a wonderful job of keeping their promises of a return to glory for KDE. This new release has become the default desktop on several machines in my house, replacing KDE 3 completely.
Jeremy LaCroix is an IT technician who writes in his free time.
Comments
on KDE 4.1 rocks the desktopNote: Comments are owned by the poster. We are not responsible for their content.
Re: By "rocks" you actually mean ....
Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 79.117.221.3] on July 29, 2008 10:13 AM
You are a dick !!!
There's no need for name calling, it just shows your ignorance. It also how little you know about the differences between KDE 3.x and the KDE 4.x series. I still contend that KDE 4.1 is still a beta since it doesn't contain all the features of the previous release and there are regressions. Before going down the 3.x / 4.x argument, if KDE 4.x is suppose to be different from KDE 3.x, it should have been called by a different name.
You sir are DEAD on. Who in their right mind give a developers release the name that should be taken by the first official upgrade? duh, it's a no brain-er they fumbled this one. The plasma bar STILL doesn't hide? WTF!!?! even some of the most basic desktops have that ability. I agree, this is probably closet to a beta release, if not a final pre-release. Until I can hide the plasma bar out of site, I'll stick with kicker.
far away from a KDE3 replacement
Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 84.142.60.64] on August 02, 2008 11:15 AM
* increased line spaces in kde4 konsole, and no option anymore to change that -> fewer lines in vi -> worse code overview :-/
* infantile unusable KMenu (start menu) - and even when switching to the classic replacement you will loose some important
features the kde3 version had (frequently or last used applications a.s.o....)
* no split view + tree view in the file manager
* no more fine granular distinctions between a simple editor (KEdit fast even on old machines), a full featured but lean one (KWrite)
and a IDE-like one (Kate)
* can't hide the panel
* UI in general is space wasting
* Plasma is using a different html engine, not the KDE-own KHTML
***
Meanwhile the most of the dominant KDE Developers are at the payroll of QT/Nokia - so its naturally that this has an influence at the direction
the KDE development takes - the dot.kde forums are censored now ...
Isn't it time for a new call: 'anybody out there interested in a OSS Desktop Environment ...?'?
* infantile unusable KMenu (start menu) - and even when switching to the classic replacement you will loose some important
features the kde3 version had (frequently or last used applications a.s.o....)
* no split view + tree view in the file manager
* no more fine granular distinctions between a simple editor (KEdit fast even on old machines), a full featured but lean one (KWrite)
and a IDE-like one (Kate)
* can't hide the panel
* UI in general is space wasting
* Plasma is using a different html engine, not the KDE-own KHTML
***
Meanwhile the most of the dominant KDE Developers are at the payroll of QT/Nokia - so its naturally that this has an influence at the direction
the KDE development takes - the dot.kde forums are censored now ...
Isn't it time for a new call: 'anybody out there interested in a OSS Desktop Environment ...?'?
FolderView is also a containment now...
Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 76.71.79.184] on July 29, 2008 10:30 AM
...so anyone who wants to stick with the old desktop-as-a-single-folder paradigm, can do so.
http://dot.kde.org/1217104874/ (KDE Commit Digest for July 15)
"In a long-planned move, the FolderView Plasmoid also becomes a containment (which enables it to fill the desktop space)."
http://dot.kde.org/1217104874/ (KDE Commit Digest for July 15)
"In a long-planned move, the FolderView Plasmoid also becomes a containment (which enables it to fill the desktop space)."
Amarok 1.4.9 is still available in Fedora. Ionno about other distros.
Upgrading to KDE 4.1 is actually now required to try Amarok 2.0. It is under heavy development and is semi-usable now (notably though, the tag editor is very slow).
If you like Amarok, consider building the latest SVN ( http://amarok.kde.org/wiki/2.0_Development_HowTo#Building_Amarok ) and filing bug reports ( http://bugs.kde.org/ ).
Upgrading to KDE 4.1 is actually now required to try Amarok 2.0. It is under heavy development and is semi-usable now (notably though, the tag editor is very slow).
If you like Amarok, consider building the latest SVN ( http://amarok.kde.org/wiki/2.0_Development_HowTo#Building_Amarok ) and filing bug reports ( http://bugs.kde.org/ ).
Well Amarok is a pile of wet trousers anyway so no problem there much like KDE 4.1 untill it can at least do EVERYTHING plus some that KDE3.5.9 can it aint worth hooting about
Return of the KING!!!
Is it just me or does the links to kde.org point to empty pages?
you're right, i have it to
That's probably because the announcement is not up yet.
Congrats to them!
Is this article come from the future world?
I haven't see any other information about KDE 4.1's release.
I haven't see any other information about KDE 4.1's release.
Why all of the hate? This is FOSS, meaning you're "Free" to do whatever you like with the software, including never use it. How about instead of bitching about the design and implementation course that the KDE devels are taking with this newest version, why don't you take the KDE 4 code base, remove all the stuff that you don't like, port the Kicker from 3.5 and create your own branch? Start a new project and stop whining. Call it DEK (Desktop Environment K), SDE (Standard Desktop Environment) or something. I would love to see an uber stable and UI consistent version of KDE that could compete heavily with Gnome in this role.
- inaneframe
- inaneframe
>I would love to see an uber stable and UI consistent version of KDE that could compete heavily with Gnome in this role.
I installed KDE 4.1 for Kubuntu Hardy 8.04 x86_64 from the ppa launchpad repositories:
http://ppa.launchpad.net/kubuntu-members-kde4/ubuntu/
There is your stable and up-to-date version of KDE that beats GNOME hands down.
It has everything that KDE 3.5 has, including the ability to run KDE 3.5 applications, but it also has many of the advancements brought by the emerging KDE4 capabilities.
I set the menu to "classic mode" and you can use KDE 4.1 just about the same way that you used KDE 3.5.9.
All of the KDE4 naysayers can apologise now ... it would be a great time IMO to get it done before the rush.
I installed KDE 4.1 for Kubuntu Hardy 8.04 x86_64 from the ppa launchpad repositories:
http://ppa.launchpad.net/kubuntu-members-kde4/ubuntu/
There is your stable and up-to-date version of KDE that beats GNOME hands down.
It has everything that KDE 3.5 has, including the ability to run KDE 3.5 applications, but it also has many of the advancements brought by the emerging KDE4 capabilities.
I set the menu to "classic mode" and you can use KDE 4.1 just about the same way that you used KDE 3.5.9.
All of the KDE4 naysayers can apologise now ... it would be a great time IMO to get it done before the rush.
"There is your stable and up-to-date version of KDE that beats GNOME hands down."
Wow, I'm only telling people to make their own if they don't like KDE4. I will give you up-to-date but it is NOT as stable as Gnome. KDE is not meant to be as stable as Gnome, there are still some bugs and things that cause crashing plasmoids, confusing UI decisions (inconsistency between configuration windows for instance). Gnome is meant to be stable from the ground up. That is why they have so few changes and the changes that do occur are VERY incremental and do not break compatibility with Gnome from almost 10 years ago. This is what is needed for a desktop used in enterprise environments. Of course KDE4 is not entirely stable yet, they're just coming out of a major toolkit shift. KDE4 is everything that is needed for desktop users that want glitz and nothing but. I prefer the rock solid feel of Gnome with a little glitz added on top. I might use a stable QT4 based desktop in the future that had a HIG that they stood by. The KDE4 developers are doing well and I don't think it's fair for people to bag on them for doing something that they want and their users want. If you don't want to be a part of it, make your own KDE, that was my only point.
Wow, I'm only telling people to make their own if they don't like KDE4. I will give you up-to-date but it is NOT as stable as Gnome. KDE is not meant to be as stable as Gnome, there are still some bugs and things that cause crashing plasmoids, confusing UI decisions (inconsistency between configuration windows for instance). Gnome is meant to be stable from the ground up. That is why they have so few changes and the changes that do occur are VERY incremental and do not break compatibility with Gnome from almost 10 years ago. This is what is needed for a desktop used in enterprise environments. Of course KDE4 is not entirely stable yet, they're just coming out of a major toolkit shift. KDE4 is everything that is needed for desktop users that want glitz and nothing but. I prefer the rock solid feel of Gnome with a little glitz added on top. I might use a stable QT4 based desktop in the future that had a HIG that they stood by. The KDE4 developers are doing well and I don't think it's fair for people to bag on them for doing something that they want and their users want. If you don't want to be a part of it, make your own KDE, that was my only point.
Re(2): KDE 4.1 rocks the desktop
Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 192.168.200.32] on July 30, 2008 12:00 AM
"Gnome is meant to be stable from the ground up."
Thanks Sherlock. I'll remember that when I try Evolution for the umpteenth time after several years of development.
"That is why they have so few changes and the changes that do occur are VERY incremental and do not break compatibility with Gnome from almost 10 years ago."
That's a lovely bit of reasoning, but alas, it's all smoke really. Incremental changes have basically amounted to nothing of any significance over the past few 'releases' in terms of new features and functionality. The reason why that is is because the framework they have underneath them simply doesn't allow them to add new features and functionality in any sane manner.
Thanks Sherlock. I'll remember that when I try Evolution for the umpteenth time after several years of development.
"That is why they have so few changes and the changes that do occur are VERY incremental and do not break compatibility with Gnome from almost 10 years ago."
That's a lovely bit of reasoning, but alas, it's all smoke really. Incremental changes have basically amounted to nothing of any significance over the past few 'releases' in terms of new features and functionality. The reason why that is is because the framework they have underneath them simply doesn't allow them to add new features and functionality in any sane manner.
Can you auto-hide the plasma bar?
I tried doing that with KDE at one time. It pissed off some members of the KDE developer community so much that they convinced Freshmeat to take my project down off of their site. Apparently the FOSS community does not consider more consistent UI and usability to be any kind of justification for forking. That's only allowed for "important" stuff like kernels and virtualization systems.
Just because you're free to modify their source doesn't actually mean that they'll let you get away with it. I'm not gonna complain too much, though. The experience taught me a lot about how FOSS actually works (as opposed to the way its proponents claim that it works). Wouldn't trade that experience for anything.
Just because you're free to modify their source doesn't actually mean that they'll let you get away with it. I'm not gonna complain too much, though. The experience taught me a lot about how FOSS actually works (as opposed to the way its proponents claim that it works). Wouldn't trade that experience for anything.
Re(1): KDE 4.1 rocks the desktop
Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 217.171.129.71] on July 29, 2008 07:07 PM
Say what??? Care to substantiate your troll??? What,, when, how??? Because once the code is released under GPL, there is nothing a developer can do to stop you so long as you abide by the license, and I cannot remember a time when KDE ever did what you describe.
I just tried KDE 4.1, IMO Gnome is better, KDE has a feel of being incomplete and messy (to me).
Please fill in the blanks in your mind not on this post:
KDE 4.1 _______ compared to Gnome
KDE 4.1 _______ compared to KDE 3
I don't see how this quibbling is ever productive for linux, KDE, or Gnome. If you don't like it don't use it.
KDE 4.1 _______ compared to Gnome
KDE 4.1 _______ compared to KDE 3
I don't see how this quibbling is ever productive for linux, KDE, or Gnome. If you don't like it don't use it.
Is it just me, or does KDE 4.x look like an ugly cross between Vista and OSX?
Don't get me wrong, I like KDE, though I haven't tried the 4.x releases. I've just seen the screenshots and I think it looks fugly.
Don't get me wrong, I like KDE, though I haven't tried the 4.x releases. I've just seen the screenshots and I think it looks fugly.
I totally agree. The first time I used vista, I thought..wow this is what KDE4 is attempting to copy, and doing it poorly too! Then they call it innovative desktop design.
Proxy Support?!
I think the most interesting part of this is that they are changing the standard desktop we've seen since MacOS 1. I think the standard desktop is a bad idea. The first window you open up you cover up all your icons. This design is only logical in a non multi-tasking environment. While I haven't used KDE since 2.x series, I plan on downloading a live CD of this so I can see it in action.
Re: KDE 4.1 rocks the desktop
Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 205.250.159.224] on August 03, 2008 05:42 PM
Actually the standard desktop has been the same since Xerox Parc, which Apple copied for MacOS 1.
What about Kmail? Digikam?
You did follow the link first right? Or even RTFA? KMail is in 4.1, Digikam is an independent project currently in beta.
KDE 4.0 was so horrible I switched to XFCE - and loved it.. Not going back now...
XFCE needs a decent control panel, then I'd switch. I still use KDE 3.5 because even Gnomes control panel sucks
Congrats to devs! KDE 4.1 ROCKS!
Nah, it is not an ugly crossover, you have many themes to choose from, this dark one resembles vista, but there a few other ones available by default. Regarding the visual part, you also have to take into account that since KDE4 is still very young, there arent many options to customize it visually the same way you can with KDE 3.X.X head to KDE Look Org and see it yourself... I think KDE 4 is great the way it is now and with time it will get much better. Once they start integrating plasmoids with Compiz they will achieve some jawdropping stuff like using the shift compiz effect with folder views on the desktop or something like the ability to iconify windows views, I think the possibilities KDE 4 brings are endless. Congrats to the KDE Team!!!!
Screenshot looks kind of like vista. I'm going to give it a whirl anyway, open source baby, freedom to play.
I use to run kde. I switched over to gnome. I just cannot understand why kde crashes. It crashes on ...this is my 9th pc? I can be doing something and a random pop up says crash. I switched to windows. About 1 year ago, i came to linux and dove into gnome. Very stable! Never crashes! when kde4 came out, I decided to give this a chance. OMG! SUCKS! It needs alot of work and ill be looking into KDE 5 after they decide to dump kde 4. The oxygen theme and the gui is a vast improvement but this is no excuse to break compatability. I'll stick with gnome: I'll try kde 5 but I'll stick with gnome. gnome+compiz fusion+awn or kiba+ conky+screenlets does way more than i can ever do on a kde 4. Really.... it runs @ silk smooth speed and not that 4fps animation of plasmoids. It is a total eyesoar just seeing how bad it animates.
we need
1. Stability
2. Something that doesnt break compatability
3. a desktop and not a folder containment.
on the plus side, oxygen is clean, new interface is good but not as good as gnome. and It is being worked on.
we need
1. Stability
2. Something that doesnt break compatability
3. a desktop and not a folder containment.
on the plus side, oxygen is clean, new interface is good but not as good as gnome. and It is being worked on.
"I just cannot understand why kde crashes. It crashes on ...this is my 9th pc?"
Hmmmmm. It's obviously not a widespread problem, is it? ;-)
"i came to linux and dove into gnome. Very stable! Never crashes!"
Hmmmm. Whatever.
"gnome+compiz fusion+awn or kiba+ conky+screenlets does way more than i can ever do on a kde 4."
No, I'm afraid it doesn't and that collection is a hotch potch of poorly integrated and coordinated components. Basically, you're trying to tell us that Gnome will do everything that KDE 4 can do and I'm afraid that's just not true on current form.
"Really.... it runs @ silk smooth speed and not that 4fps animation of plasmoids."
I'm afraid not. Compiz still has an awful lot problems owing to the fact that it is not developed with a desktop environment, and I'd absolutely love to see where you got 4 fps from. Hilarious.
Hmmmmm. It's obviously not a widespread problem, is it? ;-)
"i came to linux and dove into gnome. Very stable! Never crashes!"
Hmmmm. Whatever.
"gnome+compiz fusion+awn or kiba+ conky+screenlets does way more than i can ever do on a kde 4."
No, I'm afraid it doesn't and that collection is a hotch potch of poorly integrated and coordinated components. Basically, you're trying to tell us that Gnome will do everything that KDE 4 can do and I'm afraid that's just not true on current form.
"Really.... it runs @ silk smooth speed and not that 4fps animation of plasmoids."
I'm afraid not. Compiz still has an awful lot problems owing to the fact that it is not developed with a desktop environment, and I'd absolutely love to see where you got 4 fps from. Hilarious.
It annoys me that a Linux user could be this retarded. Guess this is what happens when distributions begin targeting imbeciles. Guess what? KDE 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 are going to go through the same birthing pains KDE 4 went through, just as KDE 4 went through the same birthing pains as KDE 1.0 and 2.0 (3.0 was relatively minor since it's pretty much a straight continuation of 2.X), the same pains as GNOME 2.0, OS X 10.0. It's unavoidable.
KDE is ripping off Vista? Explain. Black panel? Preeeetttty damning.
KDE is ripping off Vista? Explain. Black panel? Preeeetttty damning.
Re: KDE 4.1 rocks the desktop
Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 124.190.194.227] on August 01, 2008 11:30 AM
well said, except I use stalonetray instead of kiba. so gnome+compiz fusion+awn or stalonetray+ conky+screenlets
Re: KDE 4.1 rocks the desktop
Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 205.250.159.224] on August 03, 2008 09:14 PM
I'll guess that the KDE 4 you tried was 4.0.x which was a DEVELOPER release that should never have been a default desktop even at 4.0.3. Unhappy that it was? If you use Fedora then blame them, not the devs, for that idiotic decision.
I'm glad you like GNOME with all the eye candy turned on full blast and, for you, it never crashed. I've crashed it a few times but it's recovered quite nicely.
Your shopping list:
1. Stability: KDE 4.1 is stable, recovers from crashes elegantly without interrupting the work flow and goes on, much like KDE 3.5.x does.
2 Comparability: Newsflash! GNOME 2.0 broke compatibility with what came before. Don't even start to talk to me about Vista. And KDE 3.5.x apps run happily in KDE 4.1. That some apps have to be rewritten to one degree or another for KDE 4.x is hardly surprising or something to dump on it for. Animations in 4.1 run very smoothly at nearly 29fps, same as video.
3: A traditional desktop is nothing more than a folder containment with a pretty face. KDE 4 seeks to move beyond that. If you're happy with the traditional desktop then, by all means use one. Or wait till KDE 4.2 comes out with a FolderView plasmoid that gives it back to you. I don't think I'm going to use it mind you.
Some personal experience. Don't install KDE 4.1 on any Ubuntu/Kubuntu and expect it to work without a ton of work. Perhaps not even then. SUSE 11 works well out of the box though there are things I just don't like about it which have more to do with how SUSE organizes things than anything else. Mandriva 2009 Beta 1 is the most stable and usable KDE 4.1 desktop I've encountered and that's an early beta of Mandriva's next general release due in October. That's also become my daily desktop on one machine and it's about to become the same on another one.
In my experience KDE 4.1 runs as fast or faster than GNOME without the eye candy and much faster than GNOME with the eye candy. That could just be me because I haven't timed anything. With Mandriva it comes with a good number of native apps including Kontact and a somewhat improved Konsole. Amarok 2 beta runs very sweetly keeping in mind that it's really Alpha stage.
For those of you whining that KDE 4.1 copied from Vista I hate to tell you this but KDE is blisteringly fast compared to that bit of bloatware on far less resources. And it is simply a better environment. Actually KDE 4 is what Vista would like to be if it grows up.
No one is shoving KDE 4.1 down your throat or telling you you must use it. If you don't like it then don't. Simple really.
I'm glad you like GNOME with all the eye candy turned on full blast and, for you, it never crashed. I've crashed it a few times but it's recovered quite nicely.
Your shopping list:
1. Stability: KDE 4.1 is stable, recovers from crashes elegantly without interrupting the work flow and goes on, much like KDE 3.5.x does.
2 Comparability: Newsflash! GNOME 2.0 broke compatibility with what came before. Don't even start to talk to me about Vista. And KDE 3.5.x apps run happily in KDE 4.1. That some apps have to be rewritten to one degree or another for KDE 4.x is hardly surprising or something to dump on it for. Animations in 4.1 run very smoothly at nearly 29fps, same as video.
3: A traditional desktop is nothing more than a folder containment with a pretty face. KDE 4 seeks to move beyond that. If you're happy with the traditional desktop then, by all means use one. Or wait till KDE 4.2 comes out with a FolderView plasmoid that gives it back to you. I don't think I'm going to use it mind you.
Some personal experience. Don't install KDE 4.1 on any Ubuntu/Kubuntu and expect it to work without a ton of work. Perhaps not even then. SUSE 11 works well out of the box though there are things I just don't like about it which have more to do with how SUSE organizes things than anything else. Mandriva 2009 Beta 1 is the most stable and usable KDE 4.1 desktop I've encountered and that's an early beta of Mandriva's next general release due in October. That's also become my daily desktop on one machine and it's about to become the same on another one.
In my experience KDE 4.1 runs as fast or faster than GNOME without the eye candy and much faster than GNOME with the eye candy. That could just be me because I haven't timed anything. With Mandriva it comes with a good number of native apps including Kontact and a somewhat improved Konsole. Amarok 2 beta runs very sweetly keeping in mind that it's really Alpha stage.
For those of you whining that KDE 4.1 copied from Vista I hate to tell you this but KDE is blisteringly fast compared to that bit of bloatware on far less resources. And it is simply a better environment. Actually KDE 4 is what Vista would like to be if it grows up.
No one is shoving KDE 4.1 down your throat or telling you you must use it. If you don't like it then don't. Simple really.
Cool. But Gnome 2.22 is much less cluttered, more objective and fast.
If you like to get things done, go Gnome. If you like a nice desktop, well.. Go gnome.
If you like to get things done, go Gnome. If you like a nice desktop, well.. Go gnome.
KDE should remove these inexperienced UI copycats commit access, and get some people who know how to design a real desktop.
"Cool. But Gnome 2.22 is much less cluttered, more objective and fast.
If you like to get things done, go Gnome. If you like a nice desktop, well.. Go gnome."
It's easy to be uncluttered when you have a lack of features. Don't confuse the 2 - GNOME has always trailed KDE in terms of features and functionality. GNOME 2.22 is still inferior to the OLD version of KDE, 3.5.9, and until 4.0 came out you didn't hear a peep from the gnome crowd. Cowards.
If you like to get things done, go Gnome. If you like a nice desktop, well.. Go gnome."
It's easy to be uncluttered when you have a lack of features. Don't confuse the 2 - GNOME has always trailed KDE in terms of features and functionality. GNOME 2.22 is still inferior to the OLD version of KDE, 3.5.9, and until 4.0 came out you didn't hear a peep from the gnome crowd. Cowards.
It's easy to be uncluttered when you have a lack of features. Don't confuse the 2 - GNOME has always trailed KDE in terms of features and functionality. GNOME 2.22 is still inferior to the OLD version of KDE, 3.5.9, and until 4.0 came out you didn't hear a peep from the gnome crowd. Cowards.
This is just not a true statement. Features are no good if they are not well made. Kde is not a professional looking desktop manager no matter what version you use. By the way, I've always said that the Kde desktop was just thrown together. Whenever you can't keep your text in your menus or windows where it should be then you have a problem.
Eddie Wilson
This is just not a true statement. Features are no good if they are not well made. Kde is not a professional looking desktop manager no matter what version you use. By the way, I've always said that the Kde desktop was just thrown together. Whenever you can't keep your text in your menus or windows where it should be then you have a problem.
Eddie Wilson
Re(2): KDE 4.1 rocks the desktop
Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 192.168.200.28] on July 30, 2008 09:18 PM
"This is just not a true statement."
It is true. It's a primary reason for the 'uncluttered' Gnome control panel dialogues. Is your UI becoming cluttered, or does it take too much effort to implement a feature option in a GUI? Fine. Just throw it in as an option in gconf and tell everyone they don't need it anyway.
"Features are no good if they are not well made."
Unfortunately, a desktop that has less features than what Windows and OS X do is not going to make much headway beyond it's own self-important community.
It is true. It's a primary reason for the 'uncluttered' Gnome control panel dialogues. Is your UI becoming cluttered, or does it take too much effort to implement a feature option in a GUI? Fine. Just throw it in as an option in gconf and tell everyone they don't need it anyway.
"Features are no good if they are not well made."
Unfortunately, a desktop that has less features than what Windows and OS X do is not going to make much headway beyond it's own self-important community.
Is there ever a negative review on any linux applications from this site? It seems that most of these reviews from this site are always on the 'positive and good side' of any linux based applications...they don't seem to find many flaws in it. Oh well, I'm barking at the wrong tree..this is after all a linux base website.
Is there ever a negative review on any linux applications from this site?
Do you want a negative review? Don't listen to reviews. Use the product and then make your own judgment. What have you got to lose
Eddie Wilson.
Do you want a negative review? Don't listen to reviews. Use the product and then make your own judgment. What have you got to lose
Eddie Wilson.
That screenshot definitely doesn't make me want to install Linux on my desktop.
I think it's the typeface... it's just awful.
I think it's the typeface... it's just awful.
I've gotten in a lot of trouble, here and elsewhere, for my objections to KDE4. It wasn't ready for primetime, and should never have been the default desktop of any distro. But they have a right to do it, and very good things may come of it. That has been the history of OpenSource and that will be the future of OpenSource. I'm excited to take a look at it. But for every box I build, SuSe 11 is going to be installed off of DVD, which allows you to select KDE3. Production is production, and Beta is Beta, even in the OpenSource world. I hope many of the flaws have been corrected, and I wish the KDE4 team every success. I hope when I try it this time it changes my mind.
Re: KDE 4.1 rocks the desktop
Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 205.250.159.224] on August 03, 2008 09:33 PM
"Production is production, and Beta is Beta, even in the OpenSource world. I hope many of the flaws have been corrected, and I wish the KDE4 team every success. I hope when I try it this time it changes my mind."
That applies to the KDE devs, too, who recommend KDE 4.1 for early adopters only and not for production use.
That applies to the KDE devs, too, who recommend KDE 4.1 for early adopters only and not for production use.
Pretty busy looking desktop. I've tried KDE 4.0 and honestly found all the eye-candy really distracting. Give me fluxbox and a nice gtk theme and I'm good to go. The great thing about Linux is the fact that we can choose a desktop with all the eye candy madness, or something simple and clean. Log live freedom and choice.
KDE 4.1 has been available for less than 12 hours and already the moaning has started. I seriously doubt that anyone "in the public" have had time to performe at serious evaluation yet. Anyone can fire it up and start looking for items of dislike, but that's a rather childish approach. At the very least get hang of the consept.
As already stated in other comments above - it's completely free not to use.
If your opinion is that there is too much bling - remove whatever deemed excessive - or don't put it there ..... or simply grow up.
By far, the most negative issue with KDE 4.1 has been the amount of low-level rants. KDE 4.1 works fine - has great apps - looks good - are tidy - no crashes (here) - And the best part: Superb potential.
As already stated in other comments above - it's completely free not to use.
If your opinion is that there is too much bling - remove whatever deemed excessive - or don't put it there ..... or simply grow up.
By far, the most negative issue with KDE 4.1 has been the amount of low-level rants. KDE 4.1 works fine - has great apps - looks good - are tidy - no crashes (here) - And the best part: Superb potential.
And while it's completely free not to use, I'm completely free to comment on my dislikes just like the developers are free to not listen. So I'm unsure of the direction people are headed with that type of comment. KDE4 in my experience is lacking features, lacking innovation (poorly copied vista) and crashes quite often. And the best part: Superb potential for failure. The best course of action: delete the KDE4 tree and make another attempt.
I'm happy about the return of a weather widget to the desktop (I prefer to ride my bike to work if I can, and it sucks if you lose track of the weather, so on the one hand it's kind of a silly little thing, but on the other hand, for me it's a big deal).
However, kregexpeditor is still MIA, which gives me sad feelings (it was getting a little long in the tooth, and I understand it has no maintainer, but it still has no substitute).
I remember resisting the whole idea of putting folder icons ON the desktop when OpenLook went out of vogue, so I have a kind of gratified "told you so; told you so" feeling now that they're being removed again. Of course the kids today don't remember it any other way.
However, kregexpeditor is still MIA, which gives me sad feelings (it was getting a little long in the tooth, and I understand it has no maintainer, but it still has no substitute).
I remember resisting the whole idea of putting folder icons ON the desktop when OpenLook went out of vogue, so I have a kind of gratified "told you so; told you so" feeling now that they're being removed again. Of course the kids today don't remember it any other way.
"Finally, users are likely to miss Amarok 2.0 (at the time of this writing it's not yet completed) and a KDE 4 version of KnetworkManager."
This means that, besides being slower, KDE 4.1 is missing two applications that are among the most useful ones.
Amarok is great and I don't want to configure my wireless connection via command line.
No, thanks.
This means that, besides being slower, KDE 4.1 is missing two applications that are among the most useful ones.
Amarok is great and I don't want to configure my wireless connection via command line.
No, thanks.
YEAH.... like many here you comments on something you don't know.... kde 3.5 apps work PERFECTLY in KDE4...
What I see on http://www.linux.com/var/uploads/Image/articles/142661.png is a file manager where you can not see the name of your files and only see the year of the date.
Is this screenshot supposed to make people willing to try it or were the columns and side boxes manually arranged in order to make it look painful to use ?
Is this screenshot supposed to make people willing to try it or were the columns and side boxes manually arranged in order to make it look painful to use ?
It has been resized to show more of the desktop by whoever took the picture - so you are not seeing as it appears in use. If you actually took the time out to try the software instead of condemning based on looking at screenshots only then you would also see that you can add/subtract all the fields (such as date, filetype, size etc..). And in fact it pisses all over nautilus and windows explor
Why would I download hundreds of megabytes of software and lose half a day testing it if an article saying that it rocks without giving much reasons shows only one screenshot where it does not look usable ?
If you want people to try it, give them a reason to...
If you want people to try it, give them a reason to...
"What I see on http://www.linux.com/var/uploads/Image/articles/142661.png is a file manager where you can not see the name of your files and only see the year of the date."
Errrrrr, you can resize your Windows you know, which is what he's done here so you can see the rest of the desktop? Goodness me.
"Is this screenshot supposed to make people willing to try it or were the columns and side boxes manually arranged in order to make it look painful to use ?"
Wow. Suddenly everyone is a 'usability' expert who can pick out flaws in order to try and tell us how 'cluttered' and 'unusable' KDE 4.1 is.
Errrrrr, you can resize your Windows you know, which is what he's done here so you can see the rest of the desktop? Goodness me.
"Is this screenshot supposed to make people willing to try it or were the columns and side boxes manually arranged in order to make it look painful to use ?"
Wow. Suddenly everyone is a 'usability' expert who can pick out flaws in order to try and tell us how 'cluttered' and 'unusable' KDE 4.1 is.
Re(1): KDE 4.1 rocks the desktop
Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 97.90.138.171] on August 03, 2008 05:57 PM
YES EVERYBODY IS A USABILITY EXPERT! WE ALL USE IT AND KNOW WHAT WE WANT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! what a rediculous comment.
Re: KDE 4.1 rocks the desktop
Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 205.250.159.224] on August 03, 2008 09:17 PM
That's a very small Dolphin window and it does look like the columns have been manually arranged. Increase the size of the window and tons more information will appear.
Sheesh!
Sheesh!
Speaking as a developer some of you are pathetic, I've used KDE3.x, KDE4.0 and Gnome and I have to say I like them all in different ways. I certainly don't take anything missing from KDE4.0 as a personal insult as some of you appear to be doing.
I do agree that KDE4.x is somewhat in a bit of a beta stage at present but then most OSS is always in a constant state of development and therefore is technically always Beta, for that matter most closed source programs are in a constant state of development too and many many releases have been made with programs that aren't "ready yet". The difference? Well with Closed source/proprietary programs you normally have to pay for the privillege of using this unfinished program and when they do finish it they normally release it as the next version and at the very least make you pay for the upgrade, with OSS it gets released sure, but if it's a release version that has issues they inform you of those issues and you are free to make up your mind whether or not to use it.
Some of you seem to be missing the point of OSS, it isn't to use a program and then bag on it as much as possible if it doesn't happen to suit you. If you're not a dev or don't have anything helpful to say, then think it, don't go spouting it where people DON'T want to read it, you look stupid and ignorant. If you are a dev or have helpful suggestions then file bug reports, make informed posts on newsboards and forums such as this one.
Don't just spend your entire life defending an outdated, boring, yet stable and slightly customizable desktop like Gnome and bagging on something more forward thinking like KDE4.x. If you love Gnome because it's stable and can be MADE to look nice (Looks like a dogs ear out of the box IMHO) then use it and stick with it, well done you've made an informed decision on some software you like, want to use and works well for you.
If you don't want to take risks and try newer software that may have issues or if you don't like the look of it then fine, you don't like the look of it, it doesn't work for you, you may even be a strange person who takes the release of the software as a personal insult to your own integrity (I don't know why but these people do exist), but you know, the place to state that if you absolutely insist on voicing said opinion would be in a seperate post, made by you, which clearly has the intent of showing your opinion, not as a comment to a positive review about a product on one of the flagship websites for promoting Linux, people convert to Linux for many reasons, one of which is to join a community, no one wants to join a community that openly bickers about it's own products for no reason and appears to be full of children who can't articulate the fact that their daddy hated them (below the belt I know but it's how this sort of thing looks to the outside world, you read it and think, OMG this guy has issues that go much deeper than the software he's commenting on).
As for those who are saying it's a vista clone you obviously haven't looked any further than the standard screenshots, it has a tonne more features than Vista, is actually more stable and doesn't actually look anything like Vista other than the standard theme has a black panel, plus I'm forgetting something here, oh yeah Vista was released as a finished product that was broken beyond belief and didn't receive an update to fix things (Which then broke other things when it did come) for over a year, KDE4.0 was released with a clear advisory that it was NOT a finished product however it was stable enough to be a release instead of beta and that it would be fixed quickly, it was
/End Rant and prepares for the typical, predictable, unavoidable flaming.
I do agree that KDE4.x is somewhat in a bit of a beta stage at present but then most OSS is always in a constant state of development and therefore is technically always Beta, for that matter most closed source programs are in a constant state of development too and many many releases have been made with programs that aren't "ready yet". The difference? Well with Closed source/proprietary programs you normally have to pay for the privillege of using this unfinished program and when they do finish it they normally release it as the next version and at the very least make you pay for the upgrade, with OSS it gets released sure, but if it's a release version that has issues they inform you of those issues and you are free to make up your mind whether or not to use it.
Some of you seem to be missing the point of OSS, it isn't to use a program and then bag on it as much as possible if it doesn't happen to suit you. If you're not a dev or don't have anything helpful to say, then think it, don't go spouting it where people DON'T want to read it, you look stupid and ignorant. If you are a dev or have helpful suggestions then file bug reports, make informed posts on newsboards and forums such as this one.
Don't just spend your entire life defending an outdated, boring, yet stable and slightly customizable desktop like Gnome and bagging on something more forward thinking like KDE4.x. If you love Gnome because it's stable and can be MADE to look nice (Looks like a dogs ear out of the box IMHO) then use it and stick with it, well done you've made an informed decision on some software you like, want to use and works well for you.
If you don't want to take risks and try newer software that may have issues or if you don't like the look of it then fine, you don't like the look of it, it doesn't work for you, you may even be a strange person who takes the release of the software as a personal insult to your own integrity (I don't know why but these people do exist), but you know, the place to state that if you absolutely insist on voicing said opinion would be in a seperate post, made by you, which clearly has the intent of showing your opinion, not as a comment to a positive review about a product on one of the flagship websites for promoting Linux, people convert to Linux for many reasons, one of which is to join a community, no one wants to join a community that openly bickers about it's own products for no reason and appears to be full of children who can't articulate the fact that their daddy hated them (below the belt I know but it's how this sort of thing looks to the outside world, you read it and think, OMG this guy has issues that go much deeper than the software he's commenting on).
As for those who are saying it's a vista clone you obviously haven't looked any further than the standard screenshots, it has a tonne more features than Vista, is actually more stable and doesn't actually look anything like Vista other than the standard theme has a black panel, plus I'm forgetting something here, oh yeah Vista was released as a finished product that was broken beyond belief and didn't receive an update to fix things (Which then broke other things when it did come) for over a year, KDE4.0 was released with a clear advisory that it was NOT a finished product however it was stable enough to be a release instead of beta and that it would be fixed quickly, it was
/End Rant and prepares for the typical, predictable, unavoidable flaming.
Why must open source software be "technically always Beta"?
Was KDE 3.5 Beta? It worked fine for me. It was more stable for me (on several computers) than Windows was in the past (don't know about Vista). But if your point is that software is normally Beta, then perhaps KDE 4.x is Alpha.
We suggest Firefox as an alternative to IE, not because we want to see people fumble with unstable software, but because it works well. Similarly, new releases of Open Office and GIMP and K3B and Audacity and many other open source products are relatively stable and work well.
We should encourage KDE to specifically identify which KDE products are competitive with the norm with respect to stability. KDE should pay some price in terms of critical response when KDE releases software with lots of problems. While I think some comments go too far or are too crude, those critical comments do contain some truth.
Those who would discourage critical comments on the basis that we should expect open source software to be unstable... well, shame on you.
Was KDE 3.5 Beta? It worked fine for me. It was more stable for me (on several computers) than Windows was in the past (don't know about Vista). But if your point is that software is normally Beta, then perhaps KDE 4.x is Alpha.
We suggest Firefox as an alternative to IE, not because we want to see people fumble with unstable software, but because it works well. Similarly, new releases of Open Office and GIMP and K3B and Audacity and many other open source products are relatively stable and work well.
We should encourage KDE to specifically identify which KDE products are competitive with the norm with respect to stability. KDE should pay some price in terms of critical response when KDE releases software with lots of problems. While I think some comments go too far or are too crude, those critical comments do contain some truth.
Those who would discourage critical comments on the basis that we should expect open source software to be unstable... well, shame on you.
The point is to bang on the product so that they can listen. At least comment on it. People already asked to remove that ugly hulking panel that takes up tons of space or at least add a resize option. That sucker alone with another panel takes up at least 1/4 of my screen. Rediculous! That should of been priority and also the desktop. Why do we need to see a folder where it shows a desktop? just stick it in the documents! It is Rediculous and they just cluttered the desktop and removed your desktop.
The point here is they wanted to remove clutter from your desktop by cluttering it with spammoids or plasmoids. THis is useless when you want to do some work. It is there baby and I can Honestly understand this and I can say it was a bold move to redoo something that was not broken but really this ticked off alot of people.
Maybee breaking this can bring new light? we will see.
The point here is they wanted to remove clutter from your desktop by cluttering it with spammoids or plasmoids. THis is useless when you want to do some work. It is there baby and I can Honestly understand this and I can say it was a bold move to redoo something that was not broken but really this ticked off alot of people.
Maybee breaking this can bring new light? we will see.
Good lord. All software is technically beta in the sense that it's never finished. That's what he said and what you seem to have missed.
Comparing a complete desktop to the apps that run in the desktop in terms of complexity and interactions is foolish and ignorant.
Oh, by the way, Firefox has stumbled a couple of times, not too seriously, but there have been buggy releases and zero day exploits even with FF3. (For the record I love FF3 but facts is facts.) GIMP has had its share of problems over the years and one reason for it's stability is that it hasn't had an overhaul in years and was in danger of being left behind before some of the original devs got going on it again. K3B runs on a desktop, KDE, actually, and will run on KDE 4 by the fall or early winter. It's by no means the level of complexity that the desktop software itself it. I prefer Amarok to Audacity so I can't say much about Audacity and it's stability now though when it was new and I tried it it crashed regularly and was a bit of a nightmare.
Let's go back to KDE 4.0 which, in spite of all the verbage to the otherwise was clearly labelled as a developer release. It was just as clearly labelled as not for production work. That Fedora and some others decided to make it a default desktop in spite of all of that which they were clearly aware of they went ahead.
KDE 4.1 has been clearly targeted at early adopters. You know, foolish people like me who are willing to use software that isn't quite baked in order to provide things like feedback. It can be used as a daily desktop, IMHO, though not if you expect the kind of fit and finish in KDE 3.5.9. It ain't there yet. And the KDE devs are clear about that. They even say that it's not to be used in a production environment. In block capital letters on their web site in case you miss it. SuSE provides a similar warning as, I expect, will Mandriva when 2009 comes out in October, though being closer to KDE 4.2 release it may be less of a problem by then.
And yes, FOSS projects release things like KDE 4.0 all the time as developer or pre-alpha releases in the hopes that developers and the odd user will provide valuable feednback.
Almost all the feedback on 4.0.x has been either ignorant out out and out angry and misinformed. (Incidentally in 4.1 you can resize the panel.)
As for setting up s wireless connection from a desktop manager I tend to prefer the distro tools be they (YUCK!) YaST, or MCC (much, much better) or whatever.
There are times as an FOSS user you DO need to accept that you'll run across situations like this particularly when a desktop manager has a complete overhaul. Particularly when distros and users have been told from day 1 that this isn't ready for production yet. Part of being a FOSS user is the expectation that you may want to or will provide feedback to a project about what they're doing and where they're going.
With KDE 4 what I'm seeing is often "I don't understand this", "I want my KDE 3.5.9 back" though it isn't going anywhere except to 3.5.10, and those who just don't like where it's going. Fair enough. Then don't use it!
If you want to use a desktop that fundamentally hasn't changed since Xerox Parc days be my guest. I'd venture a guess that it works for you because it's all you, or the rest of us, know. As for me it frequently infuriates me. And using something as flame bait when it tries to move beyond the box that GUI desktops are in simply isn't helpful or constructive.
What comes out of this process won't be unstable. Actually, with 4.1, at least in SuSE and Mandriva it isn't. It's rock solid. Still a work in progress but rock solid none the less.
Comparing a complete desktop to the apps that run in the desktop in terms of complexity and interactions is foolish and ignorant.
Oh, by the way, Firefox has stumbled a couple of times, not too seriously, but there have been buggy releases and zero day exploits even with FF3. (For the record I love FF3 but facts is facts.) GIMP has had its share of problems over the years and one reason for it's stability is that it hasn't had an overhaul in years and was in danger of being left behind before some of the original devs got going on it again. K3B runs on a desktop, KDE, actually, and will run on KDE 4 by the fall or early winter. It's by no means the level of complexity that the desktop software itself it. I prefer Amarok to Audacity so I can't say much about Audacity and it's stability now though when it was new and I tried it it crashed regularly and was a bit of a nightmare.
Let's go back to KDE 4.0 which, in spite of all the verbage to the otherwise was clearly labelled as a developer release. It was just as clearly labelled as not for production work. That Fedora and some others decided to make it a default desktop in spite of all of that which they were clearly aware of they went ahead.
KDE 4.1 has been clearly targeted at early adopters. You know, foolish people like me who are willing to use software that isn't quite baked in order to provide things like feedback. It can be used as a daily desktop, IMHO, though not if you expect the kind of fit and finish in KDE 3.5.9. It ain't there yet. And the KDE devs are clear about that. They even say that it's not to be used in a production environment. In block capital letters on their web site in case you miss it. SuSE provides a similar warning as, I expect, will Mandriva when 2009 comes out in October, though being closer to KDE 4.2 release it may be less of a problem by then.
And yes, FOSS projects release things like KDE 4.0 all the time as developer or pre-alpha releases in the hopes that developers and the odd user will provide valuable feednback.
Almost all the feedback on 4.0.x has been either ignorant out out and out angry and misinformed. (Incidentally in 4.1 you can resize the panel.)
As for setting up s wireless connection from a desktop manager I tend to prefer the distro tools be they (YUCK!) YaST, or MCC (much, much better) or whatever.
There are times as an FOSS user you DO need to accept that you'll run across situations like this particularly when a desktop manager has a complete overhaul. Particularly when distros and users have been told from day 1 that this isn't ready for production yet. Part of being a FOSS user is the expectation that you may want to or will provide feedback to a project about what they're doing and where they're going.
With KDE 4 what I'm seeing is often "I don't understand this", "I want my KDE 3.5.9 back" though it isn't going anywhere except to 3.5.10, and those who just don't like where it's going. Fair enough. Then don't use it!
If you want to use a desktop that fundamentally hasn't changed since Xerox Parc days be my guest. I'd venture a guess that it works for you because it's all you, or the rest of us, know. As for me it frequently infuriates me. And using something as flame bait when it tries to move beyond the box that GUI desktops are in simply isn't helpful or constructive.
What comes out of this process won't be unstable. Actually, with 4.1, at least in SuSE and Mandriva it isn't. It's rock solid. Still a work in progress but rock solid none the less.
"Looks like a dogs ear out of the box IMHO"
Oh, I wish people wouldn't spout things like this about Gnome where people DON'T want to read it.
That's just stupid and ignorant.
:-)
Oh, I wish people wouldn't spout things like this about Gnome where people DON'T want to read it.
That's just stupid and ignorant.
:-)
Like someone on Slashdot wrote, "If you like Gnome, you'll love KDE4 - it lacks many of the same features Gnome does". Indeed, when I looked at the new Konsole (which in the 3.x series I consider to be the strongest app KDE has ever had - especially compared to its piece of garbage Gnome counterpart that couldn't even handle internationalisation together with screen), it has been Gnomified so much that I want to stay as far away from it as possible for now. And Dolphin? Seriously, if I wanted to feel pain when using Linux, I'd go with Gnome - why copy Gnome when you have something better already?
Regarding an earlier poster's comment about KDE's unusability - I say bollocks. My KDE 3.5 desktop has been configured for years with the MacOS style menubar on top and with unnecessary eye candy off, and I'll choose that desktop over the cripple that's Gnome ANYTIME. I can configure KDE 3.5 to optimise my workflow. Gnome just doesn't have that. At all.
I'm in favour of upgrading the technology underneath the user experience in KDE4 - but I do take offense for someone basically grabbing my favourite desktop environment by the throat, choking it until it turns blue in the face and then paint a clown face over it.
Regarding an earlier poster's comment about KDE's unusability - I say bollocks. My KDE 3.5 desktop has been configured for years with the MacOS style menubar on top and with unnecessary eye candy off, and I'll choose that desktop over the cripple that's Gnome ANYTIME. I can configure KDE 3.5 to optimise my workflow. Gnome just doesn't have that. At all.
I'm in favour of upgrading the technology underneath the user experience in KDE4 - but I do take offense for someone basically grabbing my favourite desktop environment by the throat, choking it until it turns blue in the face and then paint a clown face over it.
Re: KDE 4.1 rocks the desktop
Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 205.250.159.224] on August 04, 2008 09:34 AM
"I'm in favour of upgrading the technology underneath the user experience in KDE4 - but I do take offense for someone basically grabbing my favourite desktop environment by the throat, choking it until it turns blue in the face and then paint a clown face over it."
I've heard that line before which begs the question of have you tried KDE 4.1? You'll find Konq is still there and for all it's drawbacks Dolphin is far more powerful than anything in the GTK world. And the devs have listened to all the comments/complaints about not being able to set Konq as the default file manager and that will come in 4.2 along with a FolderView for those who can't live without an icon littered desktop. I can and already do. 4.1 just makes it so much easier to do that.
Oh, and for the comments about the widgets/plasmoids. At least part of the design behind that is to make your desktop your own by customizing it with available plasmoids or simply writing your own in a wide variety of languages or just by using .xml. You know, like Firefox. Which is where the idea comes from, if anywhere.
And 3.5 isn't going anywhere. There will be a 3.5.10 so no one is choking the life out of it, turning it blue or painting a clown face on it. And it certainly isn't the cripple, as you so succinctly and truthfully put it that GNOME is.
I've heard that line before which begs the question of have you tried KDE 4.1? You'll find Konq is still there and for all it's drawbacks Dolphin is far more powerful than anything in the GTK world. And the devs have listened to all the comments/complaints about not being able to set Konq as the default file manager and that will come in 4.2 along with a FolderView for those who can't live without an icon littered desktop. I can and already do. 4.1 just makes it so much easier to do that.
Oh, and for the comments about the widgets/plasmoids. At least part of the design behind that is to make your desktop your own by customizing it with available plasmoids or simply writing your own in a wide variety of languages or just by using .xml. You know, like Firefox. Which is where the idea comes from, if anywhere.
And 3.5 isn't going anywhere. There will be a 3.5.10 so no one is choking the life out of it, turning it blue or painting a clown face on it. And it certainly isn't the cripple, as you so succinctly and truthfully put it that GNOME is.
I had high hopes for KDE 4.0. They released it way too soon... I'll never understand releasing unusable software and calling it a full version. And, I really don't understand why most distros had to rush out a new version with KDE 4. This isn't Windows, you know.
I was told,"just wait six months until 4.1! We'll fix everything that's missing." Well, they didn't... You can't hide the friggin' taskbar, there is no KNetworkManager, and not only can't you get rid of the Add-a-Widget widget in the top-right corner, it looks like they've added another on to the right side of the taskbar. I don't use widgets. I don't plan on using widgets. Why must there be FOUR ways to add widgets?
Now I'm being told, "just wait six months until 4.2! We'll fix everything that's missing. And we really mean it, this time."
I was told,"just wait six months until 4.1! We'll fix everything that's missing." Well, they didn't... You can't hide the friggin' taskbar, there is no KNetworkManager, and not only can't you get rid of the Add-a-Widget widget in the top-right corner, it looks like they've added another on to the right side of the taskbar. I don't use widgets. I don't plan on using widgets. Why must there be FOUR ways to add widgets?
Now I'm being told, "just wait six months until 4.2! We'll fix everything that's missing. And we really mean it, this time."
While we're comparing, I've been using Enlightenment 17 now and it is getting pretty freakin' slick. Whenever they commit a stable release, that will be a happy day.
It's taking like a decade to actually get released but it is so much nicer than either KDE or Gnome.
It's taking like a decade to actually get released but it is so much nicer than either KDE or Gnome.
I believe most of the people (not all) who are complaining are upset simply because KDE4.1 is different. Well Duh, it is supposed to be and you have to get used to it. If you don't like it, go to GNOME, may be it suits you better.
One thing I noticed about KDE 4.1 is its speed. it is so snappy on my old P IV, 1.5 GHz it scares me.
KDE 4.1 is not finalized yet. it still needs fine tuning and getting all features that are in KDE 3.5x also in KDE 4.1
One thing the KDE developers can do is to replace the Kickoff menu with Tasty Menu the way it is implemented by Linux Mint. Tasty Menu doesn't have the extra click to go to sub-menus.
Another thing developers would be great to do is to make Skulpture theme available and distributed by default.
Those who keep criticizing, please go away for 6 months and come again. If GNOME is your thing, stay there please.
One thing I noticed about KDE 4.1 is its speed. it is so snappy on my old P IV, 1.5 GHz it scares me.
KDE 4.1 is not finalized yet. it still needs fine tuning and getting all features that are in KDE 3.5x also in KDE 4.1
One thing the KDE developers can do is to replace the Kickoff menu with Tasty Menu the way it is implemented by Linux Mint. Tasty Menu doesn't have the extra click to go to sub-menus.
Another thing developers would be great to do is to make Skulpture theme available and distributed by default.
Those who keep criticizing, please go away for 6 months and come again. If GNOME is your thing, stay there please.
This is software people. For Heaven's sake, why are you at each others throats like you are? Quite a few of you do your damndest to give Open Source and Linux in general a bad name. We don't need people like some of you "representing".
How about you take these misplaced energies and apply them to something worth it, like war and poverty and illiteracy.
How about you take these misplaced energies and apply them to something worth it, like war and poverty and illiteracy.
the most funny thing is: well, kde 4.x is still beta, lacking features, etc... in something like 4 months it can be like 20 years ahead of gnome. vista? c'mon, we're talking about software.
Linux... KDE... Gnome... LS_Colors... inputrc... ...ad nauseam. Its all nothing but WinXP personified in the UNIX world.
You guys are a bunch of little girls squealing about nothing...
OpenWindows and good CLI terminal is all that's needed. Everything else just slows down the show...
You guys are a bunch of little girls squealing about nothing...
OpenWindows and good CLI terminal is all that's needed. Everything else just slows down the show...
Yesssss... Dolphin has tabs! That, IMO is a killer feature that sets Konqueror (and now Dolphin) apart from GNOME's file manager and MS Windows Explorer. Drag and drop from tab to tab anyone?
Well, I am an old Gnome user who used to use E16 and had a stint with Fluxbox for a while, and XFCE somewhere in there. Always tried KDE at various points along the 2-3 eras. Every time a new subversion was released, I'd try it and it was too bloated for me. (yes, I know, the bloat comment... don't flame me. I did say "too bloated FOR ME")
Anywho... Been using KDE4 since before 4.0, and I have been watching it progress, and it has done just that. Progressed. I am currently on a system entirely free from Gnome for the first time in the 10+ years of Linux use. (with the small exceptions of libraries and several apps like Audacity.... I think I counted 3 or 4 apps)
I like it. A lot. I like where it's going, and I love the "from the ground up" feel to the development. I can definitely understand why a lot of people wouldn't like it and aren't going to like it no matter what, but I personally find it to be a cliched "breath of fresh air."
I have been sick of Gnome releases where you can't even tell they changed anything at all... even after reading changelogs. I really am sick of waiting for E17. More importantly, these pretzels are making me thirsty.
Well, just my two cents. I can't wait to see where else they take us when 4.2 comes around. I would like to see more plasmoids (widgets, whatever), maybe some that work with the OLD Amarok, as the new one just doesn't suit my tastes quite yet. Also, I am running Compiz, and I have ignored kwin since 4.0, so I can't say anything for the speed or lack thereof of their desktop effects, but I have NEVER seen anything more compatible with Compiz/Fusion than KDE4.
And to the above poster who doesn't like the little "Add Widget" thing on their taskbar, just right click anywhere on the desktop and select "Lock Widgets" If you don't use em, it shouldn't be any problem locking them, and it locks the taskbar from configuration thus removing that little swirly-ma-gig thingy. The one in the corner, I will admit, I wish I could get rid of, but at least it doesn't do anything weird on mouseover anymore. Have to click it for it to do anything.
In short (too late), I am fully enjoying KDE4 and am looking forward to continuing to watch it grow.
Anywho... Been using KDE4 since before 4.0, and I have been watching it progress, and it has done just that. Progressed. I am currently on a system entirely free from Gnome for the first time in the 10+ years of Linux use. (with the small exceptions of libraries and several apps like Audacity.... I think I counted 3 or 4 apps)
I like it. A lot. I like where it's going, and I love the "from the ground up" feel to the development. I can definitely understand why a lot of people wouldn't like it and aren't going to like it no matter what, but I personally find it to be a cliched "breath of fresh air."
I have been sick of Gnome releases where you can't even tell they changed anything at all... even after reading changelogs. I really am sick of waiting for E17. More importantly, these pretzels are making me thirsty.
Well, just my two cents. I can't wait to see where else they take us when 4.2 comes around. I would like to see more plasmoids (widgets, whatever), maybe some that work with the OLD Amarok, as the new one just doesn't suit my tastes quite yet. Also, I am running Compiz, and I have ignored kwin since 4.0, so I can't say anything for the speed or lack thereof of their desktop effects, but I have NEVER seen anything more compatible with Compiz/Fusion than KDE4.
And to the above poster who doesn't like the little "Add Widget" thing on their taskbar, just right click anywhere on the desktop and select "Lock Widgets" If you don't use em, it shouldn't be any problem locking them, and it locks the taskbar from configuration thus removing that little swirly-ma-gig thingy. The one in the corner, I will admit, I wish I could get rid of, but at least it doesn't do anything weird on mouseover anymore. Have to click it for it to do anything.
In short (too late), I am fully enjoying KDE4 and am looking forward to continuing to watch it grow.
If your hobby is to install a new distro every day and give it a 1/2 hr spin: Neither KDE 4.1 nor OpenSuse 11 will satisfy your needs.
That is not what it's build for, and I will strongly recommend Gnomed Ubuntu-derviates for such usage.
Longterm involvement in these activities will eventually make a statement such as "Kde Vista sucks" a valid in-depth analysis of software - and provide a rock solid basis for anyone's choice of software.
Keep spinning ;o)
That is not what it's build for, and I will strongly recommend Gnomed Ubuntu-derviates for such usage.
Longterm involvement in these activities will eventually make a statement such as "Kde Vista sucks" a valid in-depth analysis of software - and provide a rock solid basis for anyone's choice of software.
Keep spinning ;o)
By "rocks" you actually mean ....
Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 82.192.250.149] on July 29, 2008 10:10 AM.... so KDE 4.1 is now almost as good as KDE 3. Wow. Gee Whiz. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.....
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