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NewsForge presents free OpenOffice.org training videos
By NewsForge Staff
on
November 12, 2005 (8:00:00 AM)
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Massachusetts is trying to convert all computerized state documents to
the open
document format (odt). We think this is a fine idea. One
concern that's been expressed about this move (at least by Microsoft)
is that training employees to use OpenOffice.org 2.0
or other software that
uses non-proprietary file formats (in place of Microsoft Office) will
be time-consuming and costly. But what if basic OpenOffice.org
training materials were available online for free? As a public service
for Commonwealth of Massachusetts employees (and everyone
else), NewsForge is presenting -- absolutely free of charge -- 11
OpenOffice.org training videos as part of this
article. They're excerpts from the video CD that comes with
NewsForge Editor-in-Chief Robin 'Roblimo' Miller's upcoming book, Point
& Click OpenOffice.org!, which will be available in
December from all major booksellers. But we wanted
you to have access to these videos now
instead of waiting until the book is available, so here they are.
About the Point &
Click OpenOffice.org! videos
They're released under a Creative Commons license, and will play in any operating system, in any Web browser that has the Flash plugin (version 6 or higher) installed. They were made primarily for Windows users, with the Windows version of OpenOffice.org, but things work pretty much the same in Linux, so they're just as valuable for Linux users. (Our favorite derivative of OpenOffice.org for Mac, NeoOffice, lags behind the "main" version, but even so, you'll find that things work pretty much the same way.)
Do not worry if you are not a word processing, spreadsheet, graphics or slideshow expert. These videos walk you through basic OpenOffice.org functions one step at a time. And each video has a little player control bar beneath it you can use to pause, stop, fast-forward or rewind the video. If you miss a step, no problem; just back up and look at it again. No one is timing or grading you. Take as long as you need to learn each step -- and feel free to follow along in your own copy of OpenOffice.org and experiment as much as you like. It's a robust program. You won't break it if you make a mistake.
The minimum browser window size for playing the Point & Click OpenOffice.org! videos with maximum clarity is 800X624 pixels. You may want to expand your browser window to "full screen" size to make sure its main window is this large before you start clicking on the video links.
To get back to this menu page when you're done viewing one of the videos, use your browser's "Back" button. Then click on the next video you want to view, then come back again, and so on.
Enjoy!
The NewsForge Point & Click OpenOffice.org! Video Menu
Installing OpenOffice.org
Creating and formatting text documents
Adding graphics to a text document
Saving in various file formats
Previewing and printing
Making a spreadsheet
Calculating values in a spreadsheet
Basic drawing functions
Manipulating images
Make a slide presentation in a hurry
Adding pictures to slide presentations
They're released under a Creative Commons license, and will play in any operating system, in any Web browser that has the Flash plugin (version 6 or higher) installed. They were made primarily for Windows users, with the Windows version of OpenOffice.org, but things work pretty much the same in Linux, so they're just as valuable for Linux users. (Our favorite derivative of OpenOffice.org for Mac, NeoOffice, lags behind the "main" version, but even so, you'll find that things work pretty much the same way.)
Do not worry if you are not a word processing, spreadsheet, graphics or slideshow expert. These videos walk you through basic OpenOffice.org functions one step at a time. And each video has a little player control bar beneath it you can use to pause, stop, fast-forward or rewind the video. If you miss a step, no problem; just back up and look at it again. No one is timing or grading you. Take as long as you need to learn each step -- and feel free to follow along in your own copy of OpenOffice.org and experiment as much as you like. It's a robust program. You won't break it if you make a mistake.
The minimum browser window size for playing the Point & Click OpenOffice.org! videos with maximum clarity is 800X624 pixels. You may want to expand your browser window to "full screen" size to make sure its main window is this large before you start clicking on the video links.
To get back to this menu page when you're done viewing one of the videos, use your browser's "Back" button. Then click on the next video you want to view, then come back again, and so on.
Enjoy!
The NewsForge Point & Click OpenOffice.org! Video Menu
Installing OpenOffice.org
Creating and formatting text documents
Adding graphics to a text document
Saving in various file formats
Previewing and printing
Making a spreadsheet
Calculating values in a spreadsheet
Basic drawing functions
Manipulating images
Make a slide presentation in a hurry
Adding pictures to slide presentations
Comments
on NewsForge presents free OpenOffice.org training videosNote: Comments are owned by the poster. We are not responsible for their content.
You're just plaing *wrong*
The idea of this is to let people know about OpenOffice.org. It doesn't matter which distro you use, it's about teaching them there's a free replacement for MS Office that can be used easily.
By the way, you can download MEPIS for free, I don't know where you got the idea of it being SO commercial. Most distributions offer CD sets for cash, that's normal. Chill out
The idea of this is to let people know about OpenOffice.org. It doesn't matter which distro you use, it's about teaching them there's a free replacement for MS Office that can be used easily.
By the way, you can download MEPIS for free, I don't know where you got the idea of it being SO commercial. Most distributions offer CD sets for cash, that's normal. Chill out
Costless download does not mean free & free does not mean costless.
Read this:
<a href="http://www.fsf.org/licensing/essays/free-sw.html" title="fsf.org">http://www.fsf.org/licensing/essays/free-sw.html</a fsf.org>
Read this:
<a href="http://www.fsf.org/licensing/essays/free-sw.html" title="fsf.org">http://www.fsf.org/licensing/essays/free-sw.html</a fsf.org>
1) Most people's lives do not revolve around computers. Get over yourself, go get a life, and stop bashing people for not taking the time to learn cryptic UNIX commands when all they want to do is browse the web, check their email, and type up some documents.
2)<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... Who cares? I fail to see how they are non-free, since the software they distribute is GPL, it has to be free. It's also free in the sense of cost. I was able to go to their site and download the distro at no cost to me.
3) The entire idea of you posting on here is just to show what an elite hacker you are? Or just to be an asshole to those people who actually have lives outside of their computer? There is nothing wrong with using a GUI over the command line for casual users.
4) What do you gain from this? You're not even really promoting any sort of agenda, you're just being a complete ass. Casual users shouldn't need to read half a dozen different books at 1000+ pages each just to be able to browse the internet, check email and type up documents. There is nothing wrong with a video that quickly shows you where similiar features from MS Office exist in OpenOffice to decrease training time.
There are people trying to improve life for others by making the learning curve easier. And then there are assholes like you that think because you have nothing better to do in your spare time than read crap like 'Knoppix Hacks', that you are somehow superior to everyone else and that everyone else should have to learn it the way you did.
If you don't like it, don't buy it. But don't cut down other people for wanting to learn just the basics.
2)<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... Who cares? I fail to see how they are non-free, since the software they distribute is GPL, it has to be free. It's also free in the sense of cost. I was able to go to their site and download the distro at no cost to me.
3) The entire idea of you posting on here is just to show what an elite hacker you are? Or just to be an asshole to those people who actually have lives outside of their computer? There is nothing wrong with using a GUI over the command line for casual users.
4) What do you gain from this? You're not even really promoting any sort of agenda, you're just being a complete ass. Casual users shouldn't need to read half a dozen different books at 1000+ pages each just to be able to browse the internet, check email and type up documents. There is nothing wrong with a video that quickly shows you where similiar features from MS Office exist in OpenOffice to decrease training time.
There are people trying to improve life for others by making the learning curve easier. And then there are assholes like you that think because you have nothing better to do in your spare time than read crap like 'Knoppix Hacks', that you are somehow superior to everyone else and that everyone else should have to learn it the way you did.
If you don't like it, don't buy it. But don't cut down other people for wanting to learn just the basics.
2)<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... Who cares? I fail to see how they are non-free, since the software they distribute is GPL, it has to be free
Those who care for free software care. And no, their software is not all GPLed at all, read my post below which points to a discussion on www.linuxquestions.org about the non-free nature of Mepis.
3) The entire idea of you posting on here is just to show what an elite hacker you are
God no! LOL. I am not an elite hacker at all (and you have obviously never looked at "Knoppix Hacks". Anyone who can use Windoze can understand that book). I posted here only to share with others the my belief that Roblimo's books and methods are a poor substitute for much better alternatives and the warn potential users that getting Mepis they are not getting free software. Does that make me an asshole? I will let you be the judge of that. Cheers!
Those who care for free software care. And no, their software is not all GPLed at all, read my post below which points to a discussion on www.linuxquestions.org about the non-free nature of Mepis.
3) The entire idea of you posting on here is just to show what an elite hacker you are
God no! LOL. I am not an elite hacker at all (and you have obviously never looked at "Knoppix Hacks". Anyone who can use Windoze can understand that book). I posted here only to share with others the my belief that Roblimo's books and methods are a poor substitute for much better alternatives and the warn potential users that getting Mepis they are not getting free software. Does that make me an asshole? I will let you be the judge of that. Cheers!
I don't get this Mepis-Openoffice connection. I didn't RTFA though, but aren't the videos publicly available and contain no Mepis-specifics? I own and like "Knoppix Hacks", but I don't want to learn the workings of OpenOffice just to quickly type a presentation or a doc-file. Linux in general is more interesting than Openoffice. Therefore I might just watch those videos.
if you have a good point, there is no need to add ad hominem attacks of any kind, whether rude or not.
Yes, and while the 'hacks' are relatively easy, they are still well above the average Windows user. The content of the book is not meant for an average joe computer user, which is why it's rather ridiculous to offer it as a suggested reading for such users.
You've either never worked in any type of tech support, or are just a complete moron if you think a book that offers hacks such as setting up emergency web server or file servers are good reading for the average user who doesn't even know what a web server is. Use common sense. The point of the videos is to train average users who have no idea, nor care about the inner workings of their computers.
Much the same way car mechanics don't expect you to know what the firing order of your cars engine is, or it's compression ratio, or pretty much anything else for that matter. Expecting average everyday users to go out and buy Knoppix Hacks would be about the same as expecting every car driver to go out and buy a Haynes rebuild manual for their car. Same idea for TVs and Stereo's. Why is it you expect people to know how the inner processes of a computer works, but chances are, you probably have no idea how your TV's cathrode ray tube works, or how your cars alternator works. Some of us like to know about everything we possibly can, other people don't. Who are you to judge people because they don't care what the 'grep' command does or what 'lsof' is for? The command line is not for everyone, and there is nothing wrong with people using GUIs.
You've either never worked in any type of tech support, or are just a complete moron if you think a book that offers hacks such as setting up emergency web server or file servers are good reading for the average user who doesn't even know what a web server is. Use common sense. The point of the videos is to train average users who have no idea, nor care about the inner workings of their computers.
Much the same way car mechanics don't expect you to know what the firing order of your cars engine is, or it's compression ratio, or pretty much anything else for that matter. Expecting average everyday users to go out and buy Knoppix Hacks would be about the same as expecting every car driver to go out and buy a Haynes rebuild manual for their car. Same idea for TVs and Stereo's. Why is it you expect people to know how the inner processes of a computer works, but chances are, you probably have no idea how your TV's cathrode ray tube works, or how your cars alternator works. Some of us like to know about everything we possibly can, other people don't. Who are you to judge people because they don't care what the 'grep' command does or what 'lsof' is for? The command line is not for everyone, and there is nothing wrong with people using GUIs.
Yes, and while the 'hacks' are relatively easy, they are still well above the average Windows user. The content of the book is not meant for an average joe computer user, which is why it's rather ridiculous to offer it as a suggested reading for such users. You've either never worked in any type of tech support, or are just a complete moron if you think a book that offers hacks such as setting up emergency web server or file servers are good reading for the average user who doesn't even know what a web server is. Use common sense.
I do and my common sense tells me that your example is wholly unrepresentative. Look what this book begins with:
Chapter 1. Boot Knoppix
1. Boot Knoppix on a Desktop
2. Get Knoppix
3. Use Knoppix Cheat Codes
4. Speak Different Languages
5. Free Your CD to Make Knoppix Run Faster
6. Straighten Out Your X Settings
7. Use Advanced Knoppix Cheat Codes
8. Run Knoppix on a Laptop
9. Explore Expert Mode
Chapter 2. Use Your Knoppix Desktop
10. Explore the Desktop
11. Customize the Desktop Look
12. Get Office Work Done
13. Configure Your Printer
14. Use Peripheral Devices
15. Have Fun and Play Some Games
16. Rock Out with Knoppix Multimedia
17. Connect to the Internet
18. Connect to the Internet with GPRS over Bluetooth
19. Explore the Internet
20. Get Help
Chapter 3. Tweak Your Desktop
21. Create Persistent Knoppix Settings
22. Use Your Linux Desktop Settings
23. Use Your Windows Desktop Settings
24. Make a Kiosk
25. Network Boot Knoppix
26. Develop Applications
27. Use the Knoppix Live Installer
28. Install Nvidia 3D Drivers
29. Live Install Your Own Programs
30. Point-and-Klik to Install Applications
31. Create Your Own Klik Recipe
So much for your idiotic example. BTW - for those interested, the rest of the contents can be found here:
<a href="http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/knoppixhks/toc.html" title="oreilly.com">http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/knoppixhks/toc.htm<nobr>l<wbr></nobr> </a oreilly.com>
This books take you through the basics, and then allows you to go futher at your own pace, and only if you are interested. It also allows you to overcome many difficult situations and even fix Windows. A newbie's dream come true if you ask me.
Since I have worked for several years, I suppose that makes me a moron. By your logic, at least. Maybe so. But at least I do not need to misrepresent facts or insult those who disagree with me to make my case.
I do and my common sense tells me that your example is wholly unrepresentative. Look what this book begins with:
Chapter 1. Boot Knoppix
1. Boot Knoppix on a Desktop
2. Get Knoppix
3. Use Knoppix Cheat Codes
4. Speak Different Languages
5. Free Your CD to Make Knoppix Run Faster
6. Straighten Out Your X Settings
7. Use Advanced Knoppix Cheat Codes
8. Run Knoppix on a Laptop
9. Explore Expert Mode
Chapter 2. Use Your Knoppix Desktop
10. Explore the Desktop
11. Customize the Desktop Look
12. Get Office Work Done
13. Configure Your Printer
14. Use Peripheral Devices
15. Have Fun and Play Some Games
16. Rock Out with Knoppix Multimedia
17. Connect to the Internet
18. Connect to the Internet with GPRS over Bluetooth
19. Explore the Internet
20. Get Help
Chapter 3. Tweak Your Desktop
21. Create Persistent Knoppix Settings
22. Use Your Linux Desktop Settings
23. Use Your Windows Desktop Settings
24. Make a Kiosk
25. Network Boot Knoppix
26. Develop Applications
27. Use the Knoppix Live Installer
28. Install Nvidia 3D Drivers
29. Live Install Your Own Programs
30. Point-and-Klik to Install Applications
31. Create Your Own Klik Recipe
So much for your idiotic example. BTW - for those interested, the rest of the contents can be found here:
<a href="http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/knoppixhks/toc.html" title="oreilly.com">http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/knoppixhks/toc.htm<nobr>l<wbr></nobr> </a oreilly.com>
This books take you through the basics, and then allows you to go futher at your own pace, and only if you are interested. It also allows you to overcome many difficult situations and even fix Windows. A newbie's dream come true if you ask me.
Since I have worked for several years, I suppose that makes me a moron. By your logic, at least. Maybe so. But at least I do not need to misrepresent facts or insult those who disagree with me to make my case.
Just looking over the list of titles, and from my experience supporting computer users, there is very little in that book that would be of interest to the average user. The average administrator or PC support tech will find it awesomely useful, but they are NOT average users. The average user is an accountant, or mechanic, or hair dresser who wants a tool to do __________. and they don't want to spend any time with the parts of that tool that do not directly relate to their specialty. The average user will always severely under-utilize the capabilities of whatever computer they have. They expect it to "just work". From reading the titles, I would agree with the poster that said that this book as far over the heads of most windows users.
Lets look at those later chapters, shall we?
Chapter 4. Install Linux with Knoppix
32. Explore the Knoppix Installer
33. Install Knoppix as a Single-Boot System
34. Install Knoppix on a Multiboot System
35. Convert Knoppix to Debian Unstable
36. Install Gentoo with Knoppix
Chapter 5. Put Knoppix in Your Toolbox
37. Run Remote Desktops
38. Run X Remotely with FreeNX
39. Browse Windows Shares
40. Create an Emergency Router
41. Create an Emergency File Server
42. Create an Emergency Web Server
43. Run Other Emergency Services
44. Wardrive with Knoppix
45. Audit Network Security
46. Check for Root Kits
47. Collect Forensics Data
48. Clone Hard Drives
49. Wipe a Hard Drive
50. Test Hardware Compatibility
51. Copy Settings to Other Distributions
Chapter 6. Repair Linux
52. Repair Lilo
53. Repair Grub
54. Kill and Resurrect the Master Boot Record
55. Find Lost Partitions
56. Resize Linux Partitions
57. Repair Damaged Filesystems
58. Recover Deleted Files
59. Rescue Files from Damaged Hard Drives
60. Backup and Restore
61. Migrate to a New Hard Drive
62. Create Linux Software RAID
63. Migrate to Software RAID
64. Migrate Software RAID 1 to RAID 5
65. Add an Extra Drive to a Software RAID 5 Array
66. Reset Linux Passwords
67. Fix Broken Init Services
68. Repair Debian Packages
69. Repair RPM Packages
70. Copy a Working Kernel
Chapter 7. Rescue Windows
71. Fix the Windows Boot Selector
72. Back Up Files and Settings
73. Write to NTFS
74. Resize Windows Partitions
75. Reset Lost NT Passwords
76. Edit the Windows Registry
77. Restore Corrupted System Files
78. Scan for Viruses
79. Download Windows Patches Securely
Chapter 8. Knoppix Reloaded
80. Master Morphix
81. Gnoppix Gnome Gnirvana
82. Pump Up the Volume with Mediainlinux
83. Educate Yourself with Freeduc
84. Damn Small Linux
85. INSERT Security Here
86. Download Local Area Security
87. Full Protection with Knoppix-STD
88. Distribute Compiles with distccKNOPPIX
89. Distribute the Load with ClusterKnoppix
90. Analyze Quantian
91. Find GIS Knoppix on the Map
92. TiVo Your Computer
93. Contribute to Knoppix
Chapter 9. Knoppix Remastered
94. Create a Customized Knoppix
95. Trim the Fat
96. Personalize Knoppix
97. Keep Your Custom Disc up to Date
98. Automate Knoppix Remastering
99. Morph Morphix
100. Auto-Build Morphix Modules
Everything past chapter 3 is completely above the average Windows user. And even some of the stuff leading up to 3 is well past an average user skills. Such as:
6. Straighten Out Your X Settings
While easy enough for us, even with step by step instructions, no 'average' user will do this, period. Many average users can't do this in Windows, and in Windows it's as simple as sliding a bar back and forth. THE AVERAGE USER DOES NOT KNOW WHAT X IS, NOR DO THEY CARE.
Some other examples:
24. Make a Kiosk
25. Network Boot Knoppix
26. Develop Applications
28. Install Nvidia 3D Drivers
The later would be an easy process in Windows. In Linux it takes slightly more work. You have to either edit xorg.conf by hand, or run a cryptic shell script to do it for you. While this is easy for most of us, most of us are above average. Most average joe users are lucky to know what a graphics card is, never-the-less know what brand or model it is. Knoppix is a fine distro for average users cause all you gotta do is put the CD in and reboot. However, anything past clicking icons and opening programs, is well beyond the capabilities of an average user. This isn't an opinion, it has been statistically proven in every UI study ever conducted. Yeah, the command line is better. But you know what, so are stick shifts, yet most people drive automatics. I wonder why that is?
Go ahead and email the authors of the book, and ask them what their target audience was. It's certainly not the average Windows user.
Oh, and when I say average Windows user, I do not mean a newbie. I mean an average user. Someone who knows what they need to know to get what they need to do, done, and nothing more. 'newbie' implies they are new and willing to learn more. The average Windows user has been using Windows for years and simply doesn't care to know more. Which is why simple videos to teach the basics of open source apps like OpenOffice are so effective and a great idea. Very few average windows users are going to buy a book to learn a whole new word processor when they think the one they have is working fine. However, give them a simple video, and you just might win over some users. But we still have people screaming 'RTFM' and 'People who use GUI suck'. And ironically, when someone responds to 'RTFM' with 'Stop being an ass', you cry foul. How dare you be insulted like that? You're the only one allowed to make people look stupid, right?
Chapter 4. Install Linux with Knoppix
32. Explore the Knoppix Installer
33. Install Knoppix as a Single-Boot System
34. Install Knoppix on a Multiboot System
35. Convert Knoppix to Debian Unstable
36. Install Gentoo with Knoppix
Chapter 5. Put Knoppix in Your Toolbox
37. Run Remote Desktops
38. Run X Remotely with FreeNX
39. Browse Windows Shares
40. Create an Emergency Router
41. Create an Emergency File Server
42. Create an Emergency Web Server
43. Run Other Emergency Services
44. Wardrive with Knoppix
45. Audit Network Security
46. Check for Root Kits
47. Collect Forensics Data
48. Clone Hard Drives
49. Wipe a Hard Drive
50. Test Hardware Compatibility
51. Copy Settings to Other Distributions
Chapter 6. Repair Linux
52. Repair Lilo
53. Repair Grub
54. Kill and Resurrect the Master Boot Record
55. Find Lost Partitions
56. Resize Linux Partitions
57. Repair Damaged Filesystems
58. Recover Deleted Files
59. Rescue Files from Damaged Hard Drives
60. Backup and Restore
61. Migrate to a New Hard Drive
62. Create Linux Software RAID
63. Migrate to Software RAID
64. Migrate Software RAID 1 to RAID 5
65. Add an Extra Drive to a Software RAID 5 Array
66. Reset Linux Passwords
67. Fix Broken Init Services
68. Repair Debian Packages
69. Repair RPM Packages
70. Copy a Working Kernel
Chapter 7. Rescue Windows
71. Fix the Windows Boot Selector
72. Back Up Files and Settings
73. Write to NTFS
74. Resize Windows Partitions
75. Reset Lost NT Passwords
76. Edit the Windows Registry
77. Restore Corrupted System Files
78. Scan for Viruses
79. Download Windows Patches Securely
Chapter 8. Knoppix Reloaded
80. Master Morphix
81. Gnoppix Gnome Gnirvana
82. Pump Up the Volume with Mediainlinux
83. Educate Yourself with Freeduc
84. Damn Small Linux
85. INSERT Security Here
86. Download Local Area Security
87. Full Protection with Knoppix-STD
88. Distribute Compiles with distccKNOPPIX
89. Distribute the Load with ClusterKnoppix
90. Analyze Quantian
91. Find GIS Knoppix on the Map
92. TiVo Your Computer
93. Contribute to Knoppix
Chapter 9. Knoppix Remastered
94. Create a Customized Knoppix
95. Trim the Fat
96. Personalize Knoppix
97. Keep Your Custom Disc up to Date
98. Automate Knoppix Remastering
99. Morph Morphix
100. Auto-Build Morphix Modules
Everything past chapter 3 is completely above the average Windows user. And even some of the stuff leading up to 3 is well past an average user skills. Such as:
6. Straighten Out Your X Settings
While easy enough for us, even with step by step instructions, no 'average' user will do this, period. Many average users can't do this in Windows, and in Windows it's as simple as sliding a bar back and forth. THE AVERAGE USER DOES NOT KNOW WHAT X IS, NOR DO THEY CARE.
Some other examples:
24. Make a Kiosk
25. Network Boot Knoppix
26. Develop Applications
28. Install Nvidia 3D Drivers
The later would be an easy process in Windows. In Linux it takes slightly more work. You have to either edit xorg.conf by hand, or run a cryptic shell script to do it for you. While this is easy for most of us, most of us are above average. Most average joe users are lucky to know what a graphics card is, never-the-less know what brand or model it is. Knoppix is a fine distro for average users cause all you gotta do is put the CD in and reboot. However, anything past clicking icons and opening programs, is well beyond the capabilities of an average user. This isn't an opinion, it has been statistically proven in every UI study ever conducted. Yeah, the command line is better. But you know what, so are stick shifts, yet most people drive automatics. I wonder why that is?
Go ahead and email the authors of the book, and ask them what their target audience was. It's certainly not the average Windows user.
Oh, and when I say average Windows user, I do not mean a newbie. I mean an average user. Someone who knows what they need to know to get what they need to do, done, and nothing more. 'newbie' implies they are new and willing to learn more. The average Windows user has been using Windows for years and simply doesn't care to know more. Which is why simple videos to teach the basics of open source apps like OpenOffice are so effective and a great idea. Very few average windows users are going to buy a book to learn a whole new word processor when they think the one they have is working fine. However, give them a simple video, and you just might win over some users. But we still have people screaming 'RTFM' and 'People who use GUI suck'. And ironically, when someone responds to 'RTFM' with 'Stop being an ass', you cry foul. How dare you be insulted like that? You're the only one allowed to make people look stupid, right?
Are you for real? Do you really think everyone who uses a computer wants to be or should be a computer geek? Or, perhaps you are of the opinion that Linux should not strive to be approachable and useable by non-geeks?
To your points
1) This book and videos absolutely do NOT "wholly ignore" knowledge. Many people have never installed a program on thier computer but after the first video, would be able to install OOo. Look, they have new knowledge! Not at the level of a geek or one who reads a manual, certainly, but at least more knowledge than they had. That is not "wholly ignoring" by any definition of ignorance.
2) I have not used nor do I know much about the free or non-free nature of MEPIS, so I cannot address your concern. I'd like to learn about it. Do you have some pointers to discussions on this subject?
3) The vast majority of people use computers as a tool and want to get the job done in the easiest way possible. They will not ever be comfortable with or want to learn the command line. A command line tool may be the easiest way for them to do something but they will not use the command line. The non-geeks expect GUI and anything non-GUI is seen as unaproachable, scary or old and stupid. These people require a GUI or they will not use Linux. I guess if you don't want them to use Linux, telling them they have to learn the command line is a good way to scare them off.
4) My father, for example, is a visual learner. Now retired, he ran several companies and ventures, writing 200+ page books and documents, many still used by the ventures he left years ago. They call him back to present training sessions about his specialized knowledge. He designs and writes these presentations himself. He is quite smart. He learns much faster if you show him, in person or on video, than if he reads. He can learn by reading but assimilates it much faster by seeing. You are a fool if you think people who learn visually are incapable of learning the full potential of a computer. You are arrogant to think removing their most efficient path to learning is somehow doing them a favor.
Based on this article, it appears to me that these books target exactly who Linux needs to reach to grow the demand for Linux on the desktop. If we follow your advice, widespread use and manufacturer support for Linux on the desktop will remain always years away.
"Knoppix Hacks" is an execellent book for geeks and people who want to become geeks. It is NOT a book for someone who just wants to sit down at the computer and make a spreadsheet. You are fooling yourself to think otherwise.
Unless you are elitest and want to exclude "the masses" from your self-styled "Linux club," maintaining barriers to using Linux does not seem like a way to promote freedom to me.
To your points
1) This book and videos absolutely do NOT "wholly ignore" knowledge. Many people have never installed a program on thier computer but after the first video, would be able to install OOo. Look, they have new knowledge! Not at the level of a geek or one who reads a manual, certainly, but at least more knowledge than they had. That is not "wholly ignoring" by any definition of ignorance.
2) I have not used nor do I know much about the free or non-free nature of MEPIS, so I cannot address your concern. I'd like to learn about it. Do you have some pointers to discussions on this subject?
3) The vast majority of people use computers as a tool and want to get the job done in the easiest way possible. They will not ever be comfortable with or want to learn the command line. A command line tool may be the easiest way for them to do something but they will not use the command line. The non-geeks expect GUI and anything non-GUI is seen as unaproachable, scary or old and stupid. These people require a GUI or they will not use Linux. I guess if you don't want them to use Linux, telling them they have to learn the command line is a good way to scare them off.
4) My father, for example, is a visual learner. Now retired, he ran several companies and ventures, writing 200+ page books and documents, many still used by the ventures he left years ago. They call him back to present training sessions about his specialized knowledge. He designs and writes these presentations himself. He is quite smart. He learns much faster if you show him, in person or on video, than if he reads. He can learn by reading but assimilates it much faster by seeing. You are a fool if you think people who learn visually are incapable of learning the full potential of a computer. You are arrogant to think removing their most efficient path to learning is somehow doing them a favor.
Based on this article, it appears to me that these books target exactly who Linux needs to reach to grow the demand for Linux on the desktop. If we follow your advice, widespread use and manufacturer support for Linux on the desktop will remain always years away.
"Knoppix Hacks" is an execellent book for geeks and people who want to become geeks. It is NOT a book for someone who just wants to sit down at the computer and make a spreadsheet. You are fooling yourself to think otherwise.
Unless you are elitest and want to exclude "the masses" from your self-styled "Linux club," maintaining barriers to using Linux does not seem like a way to promote freedom to me.
I have not used nor do I know much about the free or non-free nature of MEPIS, so I cannot address your concern. I'd like to learn about it. Do you have some pointers to discussions on this subject?
Sure, read these:
<a href="http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/showthread.php?s=&threadid=325554" title="linuxquestions.org">http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/showthrea<nobr>d<wbr></nobr> .php?s=&threadid=325554</a linuxquestions.org>
<a href="http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/showthread.php?postid=1645673#post1645673" title="linuxquestions.org">http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/showthrea<nobr>d<wbr></nobr> .php?postid=1645673#post1645673</a linuxquestions.org>
for the second one - read posts number 10 and after.
Sure, read these:
<a href="http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/showthread.php?s=&threadid=325554" title="linuxquestions.org">http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/showthrea<nobr>d<wbr></nobr> .php?s=&threadid=325554</a linuxquestions.org>
<a href="http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/showthread.php?postid=1645673#post1645673" title="linuxquestions.org">http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/showthrea<nobr>d<wbr></nobr> .php?postid=1645673#post1645673</a linuxquestions.org>
for the second one - read posts number 10 and after.
I think you misunderstand the GPL and it's application to Mepis and other distros.
The software in Mepis is Free Software licensed under the GPL. As the threads you quote point out, if someone wants to pay you for GPL software, take the money.
However, the GPL only covers copyrighted software. It does not cover trademark. Trademarked items can include the name, in this case Mepis, logos or other marketplace identifiers. So, while a distro owner cannot stop another party from selling the software, they have full control over how their trademarks are used. The person in those threads is selling CDs bearing the Mepis name and Mepis logos. The owner of those trademarks has not authorized that use of the trademarks. This does not violate the GPL because the GPL, a distribution license based on copyright, cannot be applied to trademarks.
This is the same reason CentOS (<a href="http://www.centos.org/" title="centos.org">http://www.centos.org/</a centos.org> for example, cannot identify that it is based on Red Hat. Red Hat disallows them the use of the trademarked name and logos.
Even Debian has some restrictions on their name and logo (<a href="http://www.debian.org/News/1998/19980306a" title="debian.org">http://www.debian.org/News/1998/19980306a</a debian.org>) which has caused some discussion and contraversy of late, as seen here: <a href="http://news.com.com/Debian+trademark+policy+under+question/2100-7344_3-5876677.html" title="com.com">http://news.com.com/Debian+trademark+policy+under<nobr>+<wbr></nobr> question/2100-7344_3-5876677.html</a com.com>. Will you now argue that Debian is not free?
If the definition of free is compliance with the GPL, Mepis is just as free as Red Hat Enterprise Linux or Debian. If the definition of free includes full use of trademarks, probably all Linux distros would have to be classified as non-free.
Which definition do you want to apply? If the later, you would be outside of the definition generally accepted by the community.
The software in Mepis is Free Software licensed under the GPL. As the threads you quote point out, if someone wants to pay you for GPL software, take the money.
However, the GPL only covers copyrighted software. It does not cover trademark. Trademarked items can include the name, in this case Mepis, logos or other marketplace identifiers. So, while a distro owner cannot stop another party from selling the software, they have full control over how their trademarks are used. The person in those threads is selling CDs bearing the Mepis name and Mepis logos. The owner of those trademarks has not authorized that use of the trademarks. This does not violate the GPL because the GPL, a distribution license based on copyright, cannot be applied to trademarks.
This is the same reason CentOS (<a href="http://www.centos.org/" title="centos.org">http://www.centos.org/</a centos.org> for example, cannot identify that it is based on Red Hat. Red Hat disallows them the use of the trademarked name and logos.
Even Debian has some restrictions on their name and logo (<a href="http://www.debian.org/News/1998/19980306a" title="debian.org">http://www.debian.org/News/1998/19980306a</a debian.org>) which has caused some discussion and contraversy of late, as seen here: <a href="http://news.com.com/Debian+trademark+policy+under+question/2100-7344_3-5876677.html" title="com.com">http://news.com.com/Debian+trademark+policy+under<nobr>+<wbr></nobr> question/2100-7344_3-5876677.html</a com.com>. Will you now argue that Debian is not free?
If the definition of free is compliance with the GPL, Mepis is just as free as Red Hat Enterprise Linux or Debian. If the definition of free includes full use of trademarks, probably all Linux distros would have to be classified as non-free.
Which definition do you want to apply? If the later, you would be outside of the definition generally accepted by the community.
Mepis does include GPLed software, but the Mepis code/scripts (i.e. those specifically written by Warren and his crew) are *not* released under the GPL or any other free software license (-: which is rather ironic, considering that Mepis made its own the motto "Montani semper liberi" - moutaineers are always free<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-)
On the Mepis website it says:
1. Can I legally copy MEPIS Linux CDs and give them to my friends, etc?
You can make copies of the SimplyMEPIS bootable CD and give them away for non-commercial purposes only.
2. Can I sell MEPIS Linux CDs?
The SimplyMEPIS CD is released under a GPL collective work license which theoretically allows you to make and sell copies.
However you may not use the MEPIS name or logo without permission. Therefore, in effect, you can not legally sell copies of MEPIS CDs without our permission.
This limitation to non-commercial purposes is fundamentally incompatible with the definition of free software's freedom number 2: The freedom to redistribute copies so you can help your neighbor. (...) A program is free software if users have all of these freedoms. Thus, you should be free to redistribute copies, either with or without modifications, either gratis or charging a fee for distribution, to anyone anywhere. Being free to do these things means (among other things) that you do not have to ask or pay for permission.
On the Mepis website it says:
1. Can I legally copy MEPIS Linux CDs and give them to my friends, etc?
You can make copies of the SimplyMEPIS bootable CD and give them away for non-commercial purposes only.
2. Can I sell MEPIS Linux CDs?
The SimplyMEPIS CD is released under a GPL collective work license which theoretically allows you to make and sell copies.
However you may not use the MEPIS name or logo without permission. Therefore, in effect, you can not legally sell copies of MEPIS CDs without our permission.
This limitation to non-commercial purposes is fundamentally incompatible with the definition of free software's freedom number 2: The freedom to redistribute copies so you can help your neighbor. (...) A program is free software if users have all of these freedoms. Thus, you should be free to redistribute copies, either with or without modifications, either gratis or charging a fee for distribution, to anyone anywhere. Being free to do these things means (among other things) that you do not have to ask or pay for permission.
First: They have no license for their own code/scripts? That seems odd. If they don't specify otherwise, maybe they consider them to be derivative works of other GPL software. Their answer to quesiton 2 seems to indicate that all the software on the CD is under GPL.
Second: The GPL does not apply to the MEPIS name and logo. They are trademarks, which have different rules than copyright that the GPL is based on. You cannot site the GPL for trademarks.
Third: You cannot sell MEPIS CDs without permission because, according to their two statements you quote, you are not allowed to gain commercially from use of their TRADEMARKS.
Therefore: If you strip the MEPIS name and logo from the entire CD, perhaps replacing it with something of your own, you could sell the resulting distro. However, it would not be a MEPIS distro anymore, would it.
MEPIS, perhaps on purpose, is also not clearly defining the difference between GPL/copyright and trademark. They should.
If you sell Mepis CDs with the Mepis name and logo you are commercially profiting from their trademarks. Would a Mepis-stripped-of-Mepis-tradmarks so-it-can't-be-called-Mepis CD sell as well as a "real" Mepis CD? No, because that is the value of the Mepis name. Why should you be able to benefit from the value they created if you don't have their permission to do so?
I'll say it again: The GPL does not apply to trademarks. Trademarks are not, nor can they ever be, Free Software. They are not software. You could argue that the Mepis group should license their tradmarks under a Creative Commons License or make the trademarks available for free use. But even if they don't do that, it is still correct to state that Mepis is Free Software as long as the *software* is under the GPL or a GPL compatible copyright license.
Second: The GPL does not apply to the MEPIS name and logo. They are trademarks, which have different rules than copyright that the GPL is based on. You cannot site the GPL for trademarks.
Third: You cannot sell MEPIS CDs without permission because, according to their two statements you quote, you are not allowed to gain commercially from use of their TRADEMARKS.
Therefore: If you strip the MEPIS name and logo from the entire CD, perhaps replacing it with something of your own, you could sell the resulting distro. However, it would not be a MEPIS distro anymore, would it.
MEPIS, perhaps on purpose, is also not clearly defining the difference between GPL/copyright and trademark. They should.
If you sell Mepis CDs with the Mepis name and logo you are commercially profiting from their trademarks. Would a Mepis-stripped-of-Mepis-tradmarks so-it-can't-be-called-Mepis CD sell as well as a "real" Mepis CD? No, because that is the value of the Mepis name. Why should you be able to benefit from the value they created if you don't have their permission to do so?
I'll say it again: The GPL does not apply to trademarks. Trademarks are not, nor can they ever be, Free Software. They are not software. You could argue that the Mepis group should license their tradmarks under a Creative Commons License or make the trademarks available for free use. But even if they don't do that, it is still correct to state that Mepis is Free Software as long as the *software* is under the GPL or a GPL compatible copyright license.
just plain dumb, that's what your post is
1) You're an asshole.
2) You're a hippy.
3) You're an asshole.
4) You have no concept of real people and their relationship with computers.
2) You're a hippy.
3) You're an asshole.
4) You have no concept of real people and their relationship with computers.
And no, I'm not going to "debate" you.
If you give me some bulschevick about not acknowledging your "points", I'm going to laugh at you.
Are you trying to get all Bill O'Reilly about this? It's a computer program. You're not talking to a bloody senator.
And if you were, he'd laugh at you too.
If you give me some bulschevick about not acknowledging your "points", I'm going to laugh at you.
Are you trying to get all Bill O'Reilly about this? It's a computer program. You're not talking to a bloody senator.
And if you were, he'd laugh at you too.
3) I knew you'd say that.
That's what this is about. You just want to troll so that you can get people to DEBATE and then you can show how smart you think you are.
Well I'm not going to DEBATE you on any of your POINTS cause they're not things that are debatable, they're attitudes and viewpoints.
Specifically, they're the trolling attitudes and viewpoints of an asshole.
That's what this is about. You just want to troll so that you can get people to DEBATE and then you can show how smart you think you are.
Well I'm not going to DEBATE you on any of your POINTS cause they're not things that are debatable, they're attitudes and viewpoints.
Specifically, they're the trolling attitudes and viewpoints of an asshole.
While ignorance is bliss, knowledge is power. While the point and click approach might give one the former, but never the latter.
I choose to be ignorant about my air conditioner. I understand the basic theory of how it works but I have neither the time, nor the inclination to aquire the knowledge and tools to repair it, should it break. I want to turn it on or off as needed and call someone who is not ignorant if it needs repair.
There are many very smart people who have neither the time nor inclination to learn how Linux or OpenOffice.org works. They don't want to know the command line. They don't want to edit config files. They just want to use the computer to further or apply their knowledge of things they do care about. They want point and click so they can get on with what they like to do.
Just because you or I choose to know our computers doesn't mean choosing the oppisite is bad or wrong. It's just a different choice.
There are many very smart people who have neither the time nor inclination to learn how Linux or OpenOffice.org works. They don't want to know the command line. They don't want to edit config files. They just want to use the computer to further or apply their knowledge of things they do care about. They want point and click so they can get on with what they like to do.
Just because you or I choose to know our computers doesn't mean choosing the oppisite is bad or wrong. It's just a different choice.
I choose to be ignorant about my air conditioner.
Indeed you can, but you AC does not need a firewall, cannot get you in jail for stuff you did not do, can not be highjacked by others, will not loose vital data you need, will not cost you money for being artificially overpriced, etc.
Indeed you can, but you AC does not need a firewall, cannot get you in jail for stuff you did not do, can not be highjacked by others, will not loose vital data you need, will not cost you money for being artificially overpriced, etc.
True, but the engineer can take care of all of that.
I am prepared to pay him the going rate, so that when I want to write the next chapter of my novel I can just sit down and do it.
I am prepared to pay him the going rate, so that when I want to write the next chapter of my novel I can just sit down and do it.
Well said, my friend. As per the parent, I agree that usually videos aren't as helpful as reading on a subject. However, the person that views a video as opposed to doing nothing will have gained knowledge. Not as much as perhaps a different approach, but knowledge nonetheless.
This series of videos was quite entertaining and educational.
I got a lot of laughs out of the video about creating a slide show.
Thanks for taking the time to do these, and giving them away for free.
I got a lot of laughs out of the video about creating a slide show.
Thanks for taking the time to do these, and giving them away for free.
A few tips:
- don't include a picture of yourself in the document.
- script things out ahead of time a little better.
- turn off Windows ClearType to prevent weird color bugs when things are zoomed
- don't include a picture of yourself in the document.
- script things out ahead of time a little better.
- turn off Windows ClearType to prevent weird color bugs when things are zoomed
Another tip: ensure that the examples are correct.
For example, in "Calculating values in a spreadsheet" the income from MissM is not included in the Profit calculations.
For example, in "Calculating values in a spreadsheet" the income from MissM is not included in the Profit calculations.
Yeaaah, I'd agree with all those thing.
My dear Frapazoid Fucknrad,
You comments are, as usual, insightful and billiant. Thanks so much for enlightening us all with your vision and prose!
Please keep up the good work!
You comments are, as usual, insightful and billiant. Thanks so much for enlightening us all with your vision and prose!
Please keep up the good work!
Why, Thank you! You can count on me!
In the video on "Calculating values in a spreadsheet" he misenters the function, and gets totally incorrect results. (He meant to sum b2 to b6, then multiply by<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.2; in fact, the function seems to be: (B2 + BB63 + B4 + B5)*.2 which is just plain wrong.)
Re:It would help if the demos weren't wrong!
Posted by: Anonymous Coward on November 14, 2005 04:14 AM
Formula was incorrect before that - he completely forget cell B6, so result is double wrong<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)
bug in the calculating with spreadsheet vid?
Posted by: Anonymous Coward on November 13, 2005 06:37 AM
look at the algebraic expression in the cell that's doing the 20% of the sum calculation.
Lovely! Training videos for free software in a non-free format! You guys sure take irony to a whole new level...
Exactly how am I supposed to show that to somebody on their shiny new free software desktop computer?
Exactly how am I supposed to show that to somebody on their shiny new free software desktop computer?
That version is revesed not a problem.
Same here. Not that Macromedia supports my OS. Even if they would, why shall I install their malware? It is unstable, insecure and the worst user tracking software on the market. I doubt the folks at newsforge actually realize what kind of bullshit they produce. An MPEG movie would work everywhere. Hello, Newsforge - please wake up! Macromedia Flash SUCKS
Yes, you are completely correct. And the result is, as you said, bullshit. But rest assured - Newsforge will not listen to us as instead of being community-oriented, they are corporate-oriented as this is where they get their money.
So go make your own website.
I agree - that is an odd choice.
No it doesn't. It might do on some operating systems, but far from all.
It works on Linux and Windows.
It's just a plugin, it only has to install it to the local user directory.
You do have to enable "allow websites to install software" though. This is important. I think.
You click the green puzzle piece type icon, then it does the plugin finder thing. Brainshaggingly simple.
Windows is just as simple, and I assume Mac has Flash of all things.
FreeBSD has binary compatability with Linux, and anyone using FreeBSD is probably smart enough to install it themselves.
Following in that thought, most people who have managed to get themselves into something other than Windows, Mac, Linux or FreeBSD probably either know enough that they don't need the things, or they know the person who got them setup and that person can help.
In fact, OpenOffice.org can even ~make~ flash files. On all platforms, as far as I know.
Now, I just checked, and the only operating system that OO.org supports that I didn't cover is Solaris.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...Show me a person who's managed to get himself using Solaris who really needs flash tutorials to use a Word clone.
It's just a plugin, it only has to install it to the local user directory.
You do have to enable "allow websites to install software" though. This is important. I think.
You click the green puzzle piece type icon, then it does the plugin finder thing. Brainshaggingly simple.
Windows is just as simple, and I assume Mac has Flash of all things.
FreeBSD has binary compatability with Linux, and anyone using FreeBSD is probably smart enough to install it themselves.
Following in that thought, most people who have managed to get themselves into something other than Windows, Mac, Linux or FreeBSD probably either know enough that they don't need the things, or they know the person who got them setup and that person can help.
In fact, OpenOffice.org can even ~make~ flash files. On all platforms, as far as I know.
Now, I just checked, and the only operating system that OO.org supports that I didn't cover is Solaris.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...Show me a person who's managed to get himself using Solaris who really needs flash tutorials to use a Word clone.
I dunno... not be a FOSS zealot? Agreed that Flash is generally a piece of shite, though, but as widely used as it is, your average noob would rather have it than some abstract ideal.
by the way, does that latest flash vulnerability affect linux users?
I have no TV. I have no life. I enjoyed the video, and I had a few good laughs. I never knew you could press the "check" mark and get get the calculations (I press enter), or that you could extend the box and get the formula extended (I use ctrl+d); Yes there were errors - but this was done quickly and for free. It was a good idea; to criticize it is pointless.
I think any non-mentally handicapped person could work out what was done in these videos. I think it would be better to provide videos of doing some advanced functions, such as:
1. Writing a report with numbered sections and automatic table of contents. Include:
-managing references and citations
-footnotes
-automatic numbering of figures and tables, and writing captions for such items.
-embedding charts and sharing data between different OO.o programs
-anything else people do when writing papers
2. Mail merge from a database created in oo.o
3. Using the spreadsheet to clearly present scientific (or other) data that needs to be imported (from csv format, or whatever).
and script it well so you do not make mistakes and confuse people watching.
Okay, that's my two cents<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)
1. Writing a report with numbered sections and automatic table of contents. Include:
-managing references and citations
-footnotes
-automatic numbering of figures and tables, and writing captions for such items.
-embedding charts and sharing data between different OO.o programs
-anything else people do when writing papers
2. Mail merge from a database created in oo.o
3. Using the spreadsheet to clearly present scientific (or other) data that needs to be imported (from csv format, or whatever).
and script it well so you do not make mistakes and confuse people watching.
Okay, that's my two cents<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)
These are *excerpts* from a video CD that's part of a book. The book and the rest of the videos on the CD cover the topics you mention -- and many others.
As far as scripting and mistakes: I have done a fair number of test videos and showed them to neighbors and friends. The non-slick computer users among them (who are my intended audience) almost unanimously felt more comfortable with a bumbly approach (and an ugly face) than with a slick, scripted presentation.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)
- Robin
As far as scripting and mistakes: I have done a fair number of test videos and showed them to neighbors and friends. The non-slick computer users among them (who are my intended audience) almost unanimously felt more comfortable with a bumbly approach (and an ugly face) than with a slick, scripted presentation.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)
- Robin
There is quite a deal of discussion and confusion about Mepis in the comments about the videos, a distro which I believe you contributed to, and whether it is free software or not, what kind of licensing the Mepis scripts and code are distributed under, etc.
Since you are a Mepis cotributor, maybe you could explain it all for us?
Thanks!
Since you are a Mepis cotributor, maybe you could explain it all for us?
Thanks!
I am not a MEPIS contributor. I included MEPIS in a book I wrote last year because, at the time, it seemed like the most appropriate freely redistributable distro for people without a lot of computer knowledge who wanted to get started with Linux as easily as possible.
I know MEPIS creator Warren Woodford rather well, but I know the creators and/or founders of most other popular distros, too. I will make other, better videos in the future covering *all* popular Linux distributions, and there is no guarantee that future editions of "Point & Click Linux" will be based on MEPIS rather than on, say, Mandriva or Debian. Those who think I have some sort of ownership interest in MEPIS are mistaken.
The bulk of the MEPIS "discussion" (which is totally irrelevant to OOo video training) comes from a few people who seem to think the best way to promote the book "Knoppix Hacks" is to anonymously knock other people's work. If they really wanted to learn about MEPIS licensing, they'd ask Warren Woodford by email or post their questions in the appropriate <a href="http://www.mepis.org/forum/8" title="mepis.org">MEPIS forum</a mepis.org>.
By the way, <a href="http://books.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/11/16/1835224&tid=192&tid=190&tid=6&tid=106" title="slashdot.org">Knoppix Hacks</a slashdot.org> is an excellent book and does not need this kind of slimy marketing. I urge everyone interested in learning about Linux beyond the "Point & Click" level to disregard the nasty postings in its favor here and buy a copy.
- Robin
PS - As long as I'm typing... people who really want the non-Flash originals of the OpenOffice.org videos to republish in a format they like better than Flash are emailing me, and as a courtesy I'm giving them AVI/MPEG copies they can modify more easily than the finished Flash output. I have no obligation to do this under the Creative Commons license, but I'm happy to do this for sincere open source advocates who make polite requests for help.
And for those who say you want to translate these videos into other languages... I'll give you the AVI/MPEG originals, too, but if you're serious about video training you'd be better off making your own videos from scratch, using your language's version of OpenOffice.org, instead of putting translated voice tracks on videos made with the English version.
I know MEPIS creator Warren Woodford rather well, but I know the creators and/or founders of most other popular distros, too. I will make other, better videos in the future covering *all* popular Linux distributions, and there is no guarantee that future editions of "Point & Click Linux" will be based on MEPIS rather than on, say, Mandriva or Debian. Those who think I have some sort of ownership interest in MEPIS are mistaken.
The bulk of the MEPIS "discussion" (which is totally irrelevant to OOo video training) comes from a few people who seem to think the best way to promote the book "Knoppix Hacks" is to anonymously knock other people's work. If they really wanted to learn about MEPIS licensing, they'd ask Warren Woodford by email or post their questions in the appropriate <a href="http://www.mepis.org/forum/8" title="mepis.org">MEPIS forum</a mepis.org>.
By the way, <a href="http://books.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/11/16/1835224&tid=192&tid=190&tid=6&tid=106" title="slashdot.org">Knoppix Hacks</a slashdot.org> is an excellent book and does not need this kind of slimy marketing. I urge everyone interested in learning about Linux beyond the "Point & Click" level to disregard the nasty postings in its favor here and buy a copy.
- Robin
PS - As long as I'm typing... people who really want the non-Flash originals of the OpenOffice.org videos to republish in a format they like better than Flash are emailing me, and as a courtesy I'm giving them AVI/MPEG copies they can modify more easily than the finished Flash output. I have no obligation to do this under the Creative Commons license, but I'm happy to do this for sincere open source advocates who make polite requests for help.
And for those who say you want to translate these videos into other languages... I'll give you the AVI/MPEG originals, too, but if you're serious about video training you'd be better off making your own videos from scratch, using your language's version of OpenOffice.org, instead of putting translated voice tracks on videos made with the English version.
missing the point and an opportunity for NF
Posted by: Anonymous Coward on November 14, 2005 08:54 PM
I have to say that it sure looks like you are far more concerned about the marketing of books then the question asked which was IS MEPIS FREE SOFTWARE OR NOT?
You, as the editor in chief of Newsforge, do not need to be specially associated with Mepis (even though you previously stated that Synaptic is absent from Mepis due to your decision) to answer this question. There is no doubt that many of us in the GNU/Linux community are confused about this issue and that Warren maintains a deliberate ambiguity about this issue. This sure would deserve if not a full-length Newsforge article, at least a clear answer from you as somebody who can get this answer and pass it on to us.
About the "slimy marketing" issue. There is nothing slimy about comparing two books to see which is better suited, in fact, more than half of all reviews on amazon.com compare some IT books to others. By calling such comparisons slimy you only make yourself look insecure and defensive.
As for future editions of your book - I would reccommend that they be shipped with a *free* distro and your videos in a free format and you will not find yourself in the unpleasant position you are in today.
You, as the editor in chief of Newsforge, do not need to be specially associated with Mepis (even though you previously stated that Synaptic is absent from Mepis due to your decision) to answer this question. There is no doubt that many of us in the GNU/Linux community are confused about this issue and that Warren maintains a deliberate ambiguity about this issue. This sure would deserve if not a full-length Newsforge article, at least a clear answer from you as somebody who can get this answer and pass it on to us.
About the "slimy marketing" issue. There is nothing slimy about comparing two books to see which is better suited, in fact, more than half of all reviews on amazon.com compare some IT books to others. By calling such comparisons slimy you only make yourself look insecure and defensive.
As for future editions of your book - I would reccommend that they be shipped with a *free* distro and your videos in a free format and you will not find yourself in the unpleasant position you are in today.
Re:missing the point and an opportunity for NF
Posted by: Anonymous Coward on November 16, 2005 12:03 AM
Oh, come on! Do you realize that you speak as if Robin has no freedom and should obey your slightest whims, basically ordering him to do some research in your stead about the free or non-free nature of a distro and then writing an article about it?
For an advocate of *freedom* software it does sound strange.
Now you should ask the right person, Warren, who should be able to reply to you, and then write your own article and submit it to Newsforge. Now that would be productive, at least more than your whining. You can get the answer yourself. You can propagate it yourself. So why ask others to do it?
And about flash, there is the obvious reason that it's faster to download than avi, and simpler for most people... which suits the target audience. Knowing it is flash, you are free not to watch them and ask Robin for the videos in their original format, since he kindly provides them in this format.
And if I might add, it should be stressed once more that the MEPIS discussion is completely off-topic. Therefore, and as you pointed out, it deserves a Newsforge article of its own. Now we're all waiting for your contribution.
Cheers
Yannick
For an advocate of *freedom* software it does sound strange.
Now you should ask the right person, Warren, who should be able to reply to you, and then write your own article and submit it to Newsforge. Now that would be productive, at least more than your whining. You can get the answer yourself. You can propagate it yourself. So why ask others to do it?
And about flash, there is the obvious reason that it's faster to download than avi, and simpler for most people... which suits the target audience. Knowing it is flash, you are free not to watch them and ask Robin for the videos in their original format, since he kindly provides them in this format.
And if I might add, it should be stressed once more that the MEPIS discussion is completely off-topic. Therefore, and as you pointed out, it deserves a Newsforge article of its own. Now we're all waiting for your contribution.
Cheers
Yannick
Re:missing the point and an opportunity for NF
Posted by: Jeremy Hogan on November 16, 2005 01:12 AM
> the question asked which was IS MEPIS FREE SOFTWARE OR NOT?
Here you go, lazy ass. Took me a whopping 1.35 minutes to find it on the Mepis site. Don't confuse trademark restrictions with software licensing, and all will be well.
1. Can I legally copy MEPIS Linux CDs and give them to my friends, etc?
You can make copies of the SimplyMEPIS bootable CD and give them away for non-commercial purposes only.
If you give CDs to others, please encourage them to buy updates and subscriptions from MEPIS.
2. Can I sell MEPIS Linux CDs?
The SimplyMEPIS CD is released under a GPL collective work license which theoretically allows you to make and sell copies.
However you may not use the MEPIS name or logo without permission. Therefore, in effect, you can not legally sell copies of MEPIS CDs without our permission.
3. How do I get permission to use the MEPIS name and logo?
Some people have sold homemade MEPIS CDs at Ebay for more than MEPIS charged! MEPIS gets no money when this happens. But we do get a bad reputation when the CDs are old or they don't work.
Therefore we give permission to use the MEPIS brand name only as a part of a formal business relationship
4. Do I need permission to use the MEPIS name and logo when I give away or sell SimplyMEPIS CDs for non-commercial purposes?
You do not but please encourage users to support MEPIS.
MEPIS explicitly gives the Debian Project, KDE.org, and Linux Users Groups the right to give away or sell SimplyMEPIS CDs as part of their promotional or fund raising activities.
As for all of the Flash gripes, do you hate OpenOffice.org and Mozilla for haveing Windows ports, too? Where do you draw the line? I think this idea is meeting the user where they are, with the hopes of winning the smaller battles on route to winning the war.
Here you go, lazy ass. Took me a whopping 1.35 minutes to find it on the Mepis site. Don't confuse trademark restrictions with software licensing, and all will be well.
1. Can I legally copy MEPIS Linux CDs and give them to my friends, etc?
You can make copies of the SimplyMEPIS bootable CD and give them away for non-commercial purposes only.
If you give CDs to others, please encourage them to buy updates and subscriptions from MEPIS.
2. Can I sell MEPIS Linux CDs?
The SimplyMEPIS CD is released under a GPL collective work license which theoretically allows you to make and sell copies.
However you may not use the MEPIS name or logo without permission. Therefore, in effect, you can not legally sell copies of MEPIS CDs without our permission.
3. How do I get permission to use the MEPIS name and logo?
Some people have sold homemade MEPIS CDs at Ebay for more than MEPIS charged! MEPIS gets no money when this happens. But we do get a bad reputation when the CDs are old or they don't work.
Therefore we give permission to use the MEPIS brand name only as a part of a formal business relationship
4. Do I need permission to use the MEPIS name and logo when I give away or sell SimplyMEPIS CDs for non-commercial purposes?
You do not but please encourage users to support MEPIS.
MEPIS explicitly gives the Debian Project, KDE.org, and Linux Users Groups the right to give away or sell SimplyMEPIS CDs as part of their promotional or fund raising activities.
As for all of the Flash gripes, do you hate OpenOffice.org and Mozilla for haveing Windows ports, too? Where do you draw the line? I think this idea is meeting the user where they are, with the hopes of winning the smaller battles on route to winning the war.
Yes, I backspaced and retyped in capitals.
Because this is really great. BTW, to ease things, just "save link/target as" with a name you like (I suggest a number prefix like "01_installing") and a swf suffix -- maybe this is all automatic in other browsers, but this works in my old version of Konqueror.
As always, first quality material from Rob. The only points I regret are:
1) It's not in my language, so many of my colleagues won't fully appreciate this nice work (of course, these are the ones who stick to Windows more stubbornly);
2) That funny looking guy pic in the beginning. Two words: Extreme Makeover...<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;-P
Thanks for such a great work. This is sorely needed. Ignore the dork/troll who said things about the command line.
Command line is great just like a bistoury (a surgeon's fine knife), but both -- "command line" and "point and click" have different usages for which they fit the best.
Because this is really great. BTW, to ease things, just "save link/target as" with a name you like (I suggest a number prefix like "01_installing") and a swf suffix -- maybe this is all automatic in other browsers, but this works in my old version of Konqueror.
As always, first quality material from Rob. The only points I regret are:
1) It's not in my language, so many of my colleagues won't fully appreciate this nice work (of course, these are the ones who stick to Windows more stubbornly);
2) That funny looking guy pic in the beginning. Two words: Extreme Makeover...<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;-P
Thanks for such a great work. This is sorely needed. Ignore the dork/troll who said things about the command line.
Command line is great just like a bistoury (a surgeon's fine knife), but both -- "command line" and "point and click" have different usages for which they fit the best.
Why don't you release the<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.fla files, so I can translate this stuff in my home language and distribute it here?
I think videos are the appropriate way to learn software. I was never able to get into reading thick books -- I learn better by seeing and hearing the information. I've only watched the calculating values video so far, and i found it very helpful and easy to follow. If you make more of these, people will flock to OpenOffice.org products.
Rufus Jenkins,
SystemDisc <a href="http://www.systemdisc.com/" title="systemdisc.com">Linux CDs</a systemdisc.com> Shop.
Rufus Jenkins,
SystemDisc <a href="http://www.systemdisc.com/" title="systemdisc.com">Linux CDs</a systemdisc.com> Shop.
Flash will not pollute my computer. It's 99% used for advertising and for emulating cookies. It is intrusive and stupid technology. How about doing some movies in a readable, user-friendly format, instead of in Flash? I wish I could see these movies.
You know, Flash can be installed and selectively used only on trusted pages/files.
I myself don't care that much about ads, but I do disable flash (really "disable plugins") for a specific site with flash ads over important content which just close on IE. So, no flash on that site for me.
This is works on a per site basis with Konqueror, but Opera also has a very easy global toggle (F12, disable plugins). Don't know about Mozilla/Firefox, though...
Otherwise, Flash is an useful tool for, e.g., communicating presentations over different platforms. If you think that's bad, what about the alternative<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.ppt?
I guess Flash is not so bad compared to M$. But, ok, this is just MHO.
I myself don't care that much about ads, but I do disable flash (really "disable plugins") for a specific site with flash ads over important content which just close on IE. So, no flash on that site for me.
This is works on a per site basis with Konqueror, but Opera also has a very easy global toggle (F12, disable plugins). Don't know about Mozilla/Firefox, though...
Otherwise, Flash is an useful tool for, e.g., communicating presentations over different platforms. If you think that's bad, what about the alternative<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.ppt?
I guess Flash is not so bad compared to M$. But, ok, this is just MHO.
Check out the 'Flashblock' Firefox extension.
Ok, let's assume that 80-90 percent of Newsforge readers are reasonable, pragmatic "open source" and "linux" users who do not care about free software or free formats. That leaves about 20-10 percent of us, "FSF/GNU free software zealots, hippes, commies, etc", who really do care about these things. Now, it would have been technically a no-brainer to use a free distro with free format videos. You, however, decided on a non-free distro (Mepis) and a non-free video fomat (flash).
Why would you do that?! And once you did that, why would you be surprized that, well, 20-10 percent of Newsforge readers would raise the issue of these choices with you?
You are, of course, quite free of your choices and, should you decide to do so in the future, you are more than welcome to promote "Linux" with an online PowerPoint presentation mixed with a mp3 audio stream. In fact, such an approach is sure to please your corporate sponsors (and main bandwidth users).
I believe that the "open source & linux" and "free software & GNU" communities fundamentally share the same goals. However, by treating our part of the community with such obvious and, which is worse, *totally needless* lack of respect you are not making things easier for anyone.
I urge you to reconsider.
Why would you do that?! And once you did that, why would you be surprized that, well, 20-10 percent of Newsforge readers would raise the issue of these choices with you?
You are, of course, quite free of your choices and, should you decide to do so in the future, you are more than welcome to promote "Linux" with an online PowerPoint presentation mixed with a mp3 audio stream. In fact, such an approach is sure to please your corporate sponsors (and main bandwidth users).
I believe that the "open source & linux" and "free software & GNU" communities fundamentally share the same goals. However, by treating our part of the community with such obvious and, which is worse, *totally needless* lack of respect you are not making things easier for anyone.
I urge you to reconsider.
flash browser player not available for x86_64
Posted by: Anonymous Coward on November 16, 2005 10:17 PM
first of all... thanks for your work creating the videos. it might be helpful to alot people and gives insight of how the stuff works at all.
some general criticism though:
flash is a proprietary format and uses patented technology to deliver audio if i am not too wrong.
gplflash isnt done yet and actually the closed source binary macromedia stuff doesent work on x86_64 browsers at all.
why not use a format like theora, it plain works...
p.s. i dont care what distro you use as long as i see going stuff upstream of the distro and see em work along the rules of the licenses and for not against the community of free coders coding free software.
any other suggestions besides installing a 32 bit browser to resolve the problem?
some general criticism though:
flash is a proprietary format and uses patented technology to deliver audio if i am not too wrong.
gplflash isnt done yet and actually the closed source binary macromedia stuff doesent work on x86_64 browsers at all.
why not use a format like theora, it plain works...
p.s. i dont care what distro you use as long as i see going stuff upstream of the distro and see em work along the rules of the licenses and for not against the community of free coders coding free software.
any other suggestions besides installing a 32 bit browser to resolve the problem?
Why the proprietary Macromedia Flash format?
Posted by: Anonymous Coward on November 17, 2005 10:19 PM
NewsForge folks,
I like the idea of the videos. Thank you for doing them. However, what I don't quite understand is why the decision was made to put them in a proprietary format like Macromedia Flash. Good ol' MPEG is quite sufficient for a video, and you're guaranteed to be able to play it on pretty much any platform on any computer. The choice of any proprietary format, be it Macromedia Flash, RealVideo, or Windows Media Video effectively restricts who can use your videos.
For example, the standard Windows image in my school district does *not* include the Macromedia Flash plugin. That means that teachers everywhere in my district would have to install Flash. Well, that won't work, since the teachers don't have admin rights on the Windows XP boxes. Therefore, the on-site technology person has to touch upwards of 300 computers just to make these videos available to our teachers. Strangely enough, my district also insists on publishing its own videos in Windows Media format, a decision with which I most emphatically disagree.
Please reconsider the file format that you're using. If you must publish these in Macromedia Flash format, then please also consider providing a Free (as in Freedom) version, such as MPEG. Several other Web sites (even IBM!) have done this with their videos, thus ensuring that I can easily use them on any computer at which I'm sitting.
Thanks.
I like the idea of the videos. Thank you for doing them. However, what I don't quite understand is why the decision was made to put them in a proprietary format like Macromedia Flash. Good ol' MPEG is quite sufficient for a video, and you're guaranteed to be able to play it on pretty much any platform on any computer. The choice of any proprietary format, be it Macromedia Flash, RealVideo, or Windows Media Video effectively restricts who can use your videos.
For example, the standard Windows image in my school district does *not* include the Macromedia Flash plugin. That means that teachers everywhere in my district would have to install Flash. Well, that won't work, since the teachers don't have admin rights on the Windows XP boxes. Therefore, the on-site technology person has to touch upwards of 300 computers just to make these videos available to our teachers. Strangely enough, my district also insists on publishing its own videos in Windows Media format, a decision with which I most emphatically disagree.
Please reconsider the file format that you're using. If you must publish these in Macromedia Flash format, then please also consider providing a Free (as in Freedom) version, such as MPEG. Several other Web sites (even IBM!) have done this with their videos, thus ensuring that I can easily use them on any computer at which I'm sitting.
Thanks.
Error in "Calculating values in a spreadsheet"
Posted by: Anonymous Coward on November 28, 2005 04:59 PM
In this example he accidentally calculates <tt>(B2 + BB63 + B4 + B5)*0.2</tt> in stead of <tt>(B2 + B3 + B4 + B5)*0.2</tt>.
As a network engineer working mostly with Linux and surrrounded by Windows people I refuse to engage in the argument of Linux vs Windows or more to the point of some of these posts cli vs. gui. Different strokes for different folks. Sometimes I use the gui but mostly command line (at least in Linux and as much as possible in Windows). The argument is a pointless and unwinnable one by either party.
Specific to the article, yes it is very basic and yes some keystroke put in were wrong. Have you not ever made a typo? Did you run before you walked?
I work in a hospital where we are slowly rolling out Open Office to around 1500 users. Most of these users grew up with MS Word/Excel et al. If it weren't for videos like this to give them a foundation to work from my life would be much more difficult.
I don't expect these users to be computer experts and they certainly have no reason to go to the command line to write a word processing document or create a spreadsheet. The videos serve their purpose-to get MS Office users the foundations of using Open Office for their daily jobs.
You people that are bashing this should go back to English 101 and ask yourself the basic questions: Who is my audience, can they understand what I am {saying,reading,writing}, am I getting my message across? I think when the article is viewed in this light the answers to the above are yes.
One last point: Bashing people who don't use GPL'd software, Linux, command line, etc is one sure way to insure that they never will. It throws a bad light on the whole community and the idea of OSS. Please don't do it.
Specific to the article, yes it is very basic and yes some keystroke put in were wrong. Have you not ever made a typo? Did you run before you walked?
I work in a hospital where we are slowly rolling out Open Office to around 1500 users. Most of these users grew up with MS Word/Excel et al. If it weren't for videos like this to give them a foundation to work from my life would be much more difficult.
I don't expect these users to be computer experts and they certainly have no reason to go to the command line to write a word processing document or create a spreadsheet. The videos serve their purpose-to get MS Office users the foundations of using Open Office for their daily jobs.
You people that are bashing this should go back to English 101 and ask yourself the basic questions: Who is my audience, can they understand what I am {saying,reading,writing}, am I getting my message across? I think when the article is viewed in this light the answers to the above are yes.
One last point: Bashing people who don't use GPL'd software, Linux, command line, etc is one sure way to insure that they never will. It throws a bad light on the whole community and the idea of OSS. Please don't do it.
free business vedio upload on free webiste
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just plain *wrong*
Posted by: Anonymous Coward on November 12, 2005 09:01 PM1) "Point and Click Linux" wholly ignores one of the basic foundation of GNU/Linux which is *knowledge* expressed somewhat crudely by the RTFM concept.
2) "Point and Click Linux" uses MEPIS - a commercial NON-FREE distribution created by people who are actually hostile to the GPL.
3) The entire idea of "point and click" fundamentally overlooks one of the most powerful features of GNU/Linux - the command line - and fosters Mac like "ignorance through GUI".
4) Videos are cute, and quite popular among those challenged by the very activity of reading, but they will never empower anyone to use their computers to their real potential.
So while these books offer a welcome source of revenues to their author, and the videos are a good promotional trick, there is very little in all this anyone else can benefit from.
For those interested in GNU/Linux - make yourself and favor and get the very interesting, easy to read and highly educative and hands-on book "Knoppix Hacks" by Kyle Rankin which, among other things, will introduce you to a distro far superior to Mepis, and one which is *free* software!
<a href="http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/knoppixhks/" title="oreilly.com">http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/knoppixhks/</a oreilly.com>
<a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0596007876?v=glance" title="amazon.com">http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/059<nobr>6<wbr></nobr> 007876?v=glance</a amazon.com>
<a href="http://linuxgazette.net/119/howell.html" title="linuxgazette.net">http://linuxgazette.net/119/howell.html</a linuxgazette.net>
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