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KDE and GNOME collaborating on free desktop promotion

By Tom Chance on February 18, 2006 (8:00:00 AM)

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A quiet revolution is taking place on a young mailing list, one that overturns years of false enmity and makes perfect sense to most free software users. Having competed for the free desktop crown since 1997, collaborating on code but never on promotion, KDE and GNOME have launched an initiative to market and promote the free desktop together.

While each project will continue its own marketing and promotion projects, the new cooperation recognizes how much each project has to gain from taking market share from the proprietary competition. As a KDE promotion volunteer, I'd argue that this cooperation needs to succeed, and that it should become central to all free software marketing and promotion on the desktop.

It's not entirely surprising that the mailing list has been set up. Late last year, the KDE project announced the formation of the KDE Marketing Working Group. With the stated goal of "coherent and strategic messaging around KDE," the group has brought a new focus and professionalism to the project's marketing and promotion efforts. From improving the promotion of the KDE 3.5 release to undertaking the first serious marketing research and working on a community promotion platform called SpreadKDE, volunteers are taking their experience and tools and using them to ever greater effect.

The GNOME project has also been busy in recent months, reinvigorating its marketing group with a series of debates and mini research projects culminating in a large repository of materials and research. The results are surprisingly good, given how hard it can be to conduct productive discussions on subjects that often get bogged down with anecdotal evidence and unresearched opinions.

With this growing sense of professionalism and purpose, it was perhaps inevitable that the projects would collaborate. The same can happen amongst developers, where a certain level of code and project maturity makes collaboration so obviously beneficial. But with code, it makes sense -- if you're both developing PDF viewers (KDE's KPDF and GNOME's Evince, for instance), then collaborating on the basic shared PDF rendering technology, poppler, is a no-brainer.

Why does cooperation also make sense for marketing and promotion efforts by two competitors? For one thing, most people use elements of both GNOME and KDE; a GNOME desktop is more likely to run KDE applications than a Windows desktop, and vice versa, and not just because many KDE/GNOME apps don't run on Windows at all. Researching the market as though people are out to choose between the desktop environments and promoting them on that basis misunderstands the market from the outset.

Many people use KDE and GNOME because of their philosophy of software development and licensing, which the projects share. In fact, the free or open source desktop is often a more interesting concept than the specific technology each project delivers. This is especially true in certain sectors, such as government, charities, and campaigning organizations, where the ethics and politics of software freedom strike a chord and meet an institutional goal.

The contributors to each project also have important reasons to collaborate on marketing and promotion. If KDE were to launch a marketing campaign against GNOME, painting it in a negative light, GNOME contributors would be justifiably unhappy about collaborating on code such as D-BUS, poppler, and Open Sync. Being free software projects, nobody could block somebody else's involvement, but acrimony would hardly help the cause. Mutual appreciation and respect, on the other hand, goes a long way toward encouraging future collaboration.

KDE and GNOME undeniably occupy a very small share of the desktop market. If GNOME took 20% of that share from KDE, it'd make a marginal gain. But if KDE and GNOME together took a 10% of the desktop market by 2010 (a stated goal of the GNOME marketing project), they'd both gain a massive amount.

The media loves to pretend there's a desktop war and that the two projects are in fierce competition. It's a way of making a non-story much more interesting, and it's an impression that contributors to both projects help fuel on occasion. Look at the furor that erupted after Linus Torvalds recommended KDE over GNOME, or when rumors spread that Novell was about to sack all of its KDE staff. Both stories gave the projects lots of attention, but they also gave the impression that the two projects are divided, under-resourced, and fighting for supremacy on a desktop that is riddled with problems. These impressions, while false, can become pervasive if they crowd out "feel-good" stories about the free desktop. Disparaging GNOME hurts KDE, and vice versa.

The conception that KDE and GNOME are primarily competitors and entirely distinct products is a particularly big problem when the projects do market research -- a process that includes working out what the market wants that your product doesn't deliver, so you can then develop the product with that in mind. If KDE and GNOME don't work together and instead focus on where they differ from one another, they could find that their key features address the needs of fairly marginal markets, making both the products and the promotion uninteresting to the majority of desktop users.

Acknowledging the differences, after working out which are most relevant to the target markets, will help. KDE and GNOME can't do this without cooperating on market research and without presenting a strong free desktop with healthy competition. Collaboration will not only benefit market research, but is necessary to yield meaningful results. Promoting the free desktop together, while still promoting the particular benefits of each project, is also essential both for the health of both projects and their success in the long term. I just hope that this new mailing list is a paragon of productivity, not of anecdotal chatter and frustrated dreams.

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on KDE and GNOME collaborating on free desktop promotion

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Editorial Rewrite

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on February 18, 2006 09:04 PM
The GNOME project has also been busy in recent months, reinvigorating its marketing group with a series of debates and mini research projects culminating in a large repository of materials and research.

Rewrite: Typically, the Gnome project spent months debating over and "researching" its stagnant and non-functional marketing group, culminating in a large repository of disinteresting materials that neither Gnome nor anyone else will ever look at again. Further heated debate is likely and no significant Gnome marketing is expected until Novell picks up the cause.

#

Re:Editorial Rewrite + POEM

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on February 19, 2006 11:38 PM
This is really good news.

Free-Libre Open Source software needs more collaboration among the big ones...
Above all with all the funny flame wars between fans of different desktops, distros,etc.

This does not mean that both desktops are going to finish being the same. The richness of open source is the variety of options for several key components of an OS (like kernels, GUIs, Windows managers,Compilers<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...).

KDE and GNOME will not become identical ever for the fact of Collaborating on Free Desktop Promotion. And they never should...

They are quite different and that is good for all. I think other GUIs and Windows Managers should collaborate too with KDE and GNOME, and between themselves...

By the way I have written a poem dedicated to the Open source GUIs and Windows Managers. It was done 2 or 3 months ago, but I have retouched it.
I think this is the definitive version. I am translating it to English and French, and maybe other languages. Sorry if you do not speak Spanish. If someone think He/She is good in
translating a poem, I'll accept any helping hand...
Its free to be used and published... Read below...

Maybe is not the technical stuff that some readers expect, but I think it is not bad to celebrate that both projects, KDE and GNOME are Collaborating on Free Desktop Promotion.

It is also a good point for the fans of both projects and Open Source, and a nice relaxing little lecture, that is related, anyway, with computers and Operating Systems.

Programming is a kind of art, after all (ask Alan Cox). So you can take 2 minutes of relaxation in the week-end with a differnt art... I hope you enjoy it!!!

Interfaces, binaries, acussations & ordinary (common) desires
(Original title in Spanish: Interfaces, binarios, acusaciones y deseos ordinarios)

POÈME – POEMA – POEM (Free as beer<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...)

Explicative POEM, and hommage to GNOME and KDE... ( or to KDE y a GNOME... LOL) and other Free, Libre, Open Source GUIs, Shells and Windows Managers...

GNOmeándo en VISTA y en XP,<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)
Mirando con ternura a KDE...
Pasando con holgura del tal Gates,
Usando la terminal... y yo qué se...

No quiero otros programas manejar,
que estos de la “libre” sociedad.
Que GNOME me encanta, ya lo ves.
Es limpio y fácil, no es vulgar.

Binarios tienes que vender,
y yo los he de rechazar.
Hay algo en ellos que temer,
pues no son libres de verdad.

Binarios tienes para dar,
ceros y unos... a miles, por doquier;
que sean en GNOME o KDE,
me aportaran mas libertad.

En mi escritorio, ya lo ves,
hay ahora "ventanas" de verdad,
con "Vista" hacia la libertad;
sin falsas rejas que temer.

La diatriba sobre cual utilizar,
hace que me escape la risa sin querer.
A los zaleotes voy sin duda asombrar
pues ultimamente uso Enlightenment y XFCE.

Cual sea tu escritorio de placer,
el gusto en la pantalla del PC,
el encanto, la ilusión en la interfaz,
que sepas, que es como el querer;

que lo que hoy hoy gusta y da placer,
mañana hastía y vas a odiar.
La importancia esta en juntar
inteligencia y fuerza para obrar.

Los que con esfuerzo se unen para hacer
de tanto cero un montaña de verdad,
tienen en mi triste corazón
una ráfaga de fuerza sin igual.

La aByeccIón y la faLacia del Ladrón,
la desidia y dejadez del inmoral,
los binarios de programas del montón,
las montañas de dinero, publicidad...

no bastan para amedrentar
a los ángeles del código y su fe;
su fuente, su riqueza, su expansión...
La libre programación no parará.

Bien nacido, yo agradezco por igual
todas las interfaces que en mi escritorio son,
todas las que ayudan a expandir,
en su código abierto de programación,
las nuevas ideas, conocimientos, los nuevos vientos de libertad...

- If you like this poem dedicated to GNOME, KDE and other GUIs you can copy, use, publish... it. The only conditions are: stating clearly the author of the poem, and communicating it first to the author.
Verbatim copying and distribution of this entire poem is permitted in any medium without royalty, provided this notice is preserved.

Autor – Author - Auteur : Angel Arce

angel.j@advalvas.be

#

Ubuntu and Fedora

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on February 18, 2006 10:53 PM
Having a default interface that would look similar on all linux distributions - would be an excellent counter-weight to the ubiquitous Windows interface - and as users became more familiar over time they could experiment beyond the default:


    1. A similar default look on a debian and a red hat system - works pretty well.


    2. Red Hat has also tried to get Gnome and KDE to look similar on their default Bluecurve

I like the power of the command line - but find clicking boxes now and then has it's advantages:
e.g. networking, web surfing etc.

I do not have much difficulty adjusting to various KDE and Gnome desktops, and find it interesting to discover how to do similar things in different ways.

But the seridipity of discovering new things as we try to do old things, could wear heavily on new linux users?

#

Re:Ubuntu and Fedora

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on February 19, 2006 12:45 AM
Sorry, this is not the way to go.

The trick will be to get gnome applications under KDE to fit into KDE, under windows to fit into windows, under gnome look like gnome etc.

You do not need to "unify" KDE and Gnome.

#

Re:Ubuntu and Fedora

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on February 21, 2006 12:00 AM
I think this is unlikely. If internal gnome projects like bonobo etc fall on their faces and don't happen, what hope does KDE have of adjusting the internal components of gnome apps? KDE can already do basic rethemeing of GTK apps for things like colors and fonts. They'd basically have to reimplement GTK libs to get this kind of thing working. I don't really want KDE developers mucking with GTK that much<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)

#

Re:Ubuntu and Fedora

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on February 19, 2006 01:21 AM
I believe there are distros catered to different users of different expertises. For example, there are distros catered to new Linux users. This is a good idea for those distros and only those distros. As you mentioned, Fedora and Red Hat try to get KDE and Gnome to look similar. This is fine, but I think it should be done by the distro creators, not by the KDE and Gnome developers.

#

Woo-Hoo!

Posted by: dasunst3r on February 19, 2006 01:18 AM
It's about time they start putting away that 'ol hatchet!

#

KDE &amp; Gnome promote a Free Desktop?

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on February 19, 2006 04:15 AM
That's great news!

That means that they'll both be helping Enlightenment to read<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.17 FINAL!

KDE+Gnome=Enlightenment(x2.5 bloat)

(Ich bin trolling. Thank you for playing!)

#

Duplicate library code is wasteful

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on February 19, 2006 02:27 PM
How about combining most of the duplicated code into a common shared library so it won't waste so much RAM when you have a mix of apps built on the different toolkits...

#

Re:Duplicate library code is wasteful

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on February 20, 2006 03:49 PM
All right then. Let's get rid of all the oldfashioned GTK C-Code.

#

Re:Duplicate library code is wasteful

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on February 21, 2006 04:00 AM
Applause and Full Ack!!

#

Re:Duplicate library code is wasteful

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on February 21, 2006 04:24 AM
Applause and more Full Acking!

And while we're at it, lets get rid of that old C++ too, and use something modern like Ruby or C#! >:]

#

More collaboration beteen the Big ones + POEM to

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on February 20, 2006 12:21 AM
This is really good news.

I posted this before as a replay to another post by mistake, So I'll repeat the post so its more readable by all..

Free-Libre Open Source software needs more collaboration among the big ones...
Above all with all the funny flame wars between fans of different desktops, distros,etc.

This does not mean that both desktops are going to finish being the same. The richness of open source is the variety of options for several key components of an OS (like kernels, GUIs, Windows managers,Compilers<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...).

KDE and GNOME will not become identical ever for the fact of Collaborating on Free Desktop Promotion. And they never should...

They are quite different and that is good for all. I think other GUIs and Windows Managers should collaborate too with KDE and GNOME, and between themselves...

By the way I have written a poem dedicated to the Open source GUIs and Windows Managers. It was done 2 or 3 months ago, but I have retouched it.
I think this is the definitive version. I am translating it to English and French, and maybe other languages. Sorry if you do not speak Spanish. If someone think He/She is good in
translating a poem, I'll accept any helping hand...
Its free to be used and published... Read below...

Maybe is not the technical stuff that some readers expect, but I think it is not bad to celebrate that both projects, KDE and GNOME are Collaborating on Free Desktop Promotion.

It is also a good point for the fans of both projects and Open Source, and a nice relaxing little lecture, that is related, anyway, with computers and Operating Systems.

Programming is a kind of art, after all (ask Alan Cox). So you can take 2 minutes of relaxation in the week-end with a differnt art... I hope you enjoy it!!!

Interfaces, binaries, acussations & ordinary (common) desires
(Original title in Spanish: Interfaces, binarios, acusaciones y deseos ordinarios)

POÈME – POEMA – POEM (Free as beer<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...)

Explicative POEM, and hommage to GNOME and KDE... ( or to KDE y a GNOME... LOL) and other Free, Libre, Open Source GUIs, Shells and Windows Managers...

GNOmeándo en VISTA y en XP,<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)
Mirando con ternura a KDE...
Pasando con holgura del tal Gates,
Usando la terminal... y yo qué se...

No quiero otros programas manejar,
que estos de la “libre” sociedad.
Que GNOME me encanta, ya lo ves.
Es limpio y fácil, no es vulgar.

Binarios tienes que vender,
y yo los he de rechazar.
Hay algo en ellos que temer,
pues no son libres de verdad.

Binarios tienes para dar,
ceros y unos... a miles, por doquier;
que sean en GNOME o KDE,
me aportaran mas libertad.

En mi escritorio, ya lo ves,
hay ahora "ventanas" de verdad,
con "Vista" hacia la libertad;
sin falsas rejas que temer.

La diatriba sobre cual utilizar,
hace que me escape la risa sin querer.
A los zaleotes voy sin duda asombrar
pues ultimamente uso Enlightenment y XFCE.

Cual sea tu escritorio de placer,
el gusto en la pantalla del PC,
el encanto, la ilusión en la interfaz,
que sepas, que es como el querer;

que lo que hoy hoy gusta y da placer,
mañana hastía y vas a odiar.
La importancia esta en juntar
inteligencia y fuerza para obrar.

Los que con esfuerzo se unen para hacer
de tanto cero un montaña de verdad,
tienen en mi triste corazón
una ráfaga de fuerza sin igual.

La aByeccIón y la faLacia del Ladrón,
la desidia y dejadez del inmoral,
los binarios de programas del montón,
las montañas de dinero, publicidad...

no bastan para amedrentar
a los ángeles del código y su fe;
su fuente, su riqueza, su expansión...
La libre programación no parará.

Bien nacido, yo agradezco por igual
todas las interfaces que en mi escritorio son,
todas las que ayudan a expandir,
en su código abierto de programación,
las nuevas ideas, conocimientos, los nuevos vientos de libertad...

- If you like this poem dedicated to GNOME, KDE and other GUIs you can copy, use, publish... it. The only conditions are: stating clearly the author of the poem, and communicating it first to the author.
Verbatim copying and distribution of this entire poem is permitted in any medium without royalty, provided this notice is preserved.

Autor – Author - Auteur : Angel Arce

angel.j@advalvas.be

#

Worst offenders

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on February 20, 2006 05:30 AM
The media loves to pretend there's a desktop war and that the two projects are in fierce competition

Indeed, and Newsforge (along with OSNews and Slashdot) is one of the worst offenders...

#

Free desktop - common menues and commands

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on February 20, 2006 03:41 PM
I was lucky back in 1998 to try SuSE Linux. They already had what I from a user centered perspective would call a common desktop. I could switch between KDE, WindowMaker, Enlightenment, and most if not all the same menu items appeared in each of them. Don't recall if GNOME was available at the time, but it is now.

To the none-technical end-user the differences among window managers/desktop environments are at best skin deep. We (none-technical users) want a simple way to launch our applications and games, find our documents, cut'n paste or drag'n drop. If it's configurable - like window focus under mouse - great, love it, but that's not a primary concern. If it uses DCOP or DBUS or whatever, wonderful, probably really useful too. Unfortunately, the wast majority is not going to care about all that effort put into things they cannot perceive in their daily work.

#

Competition is good

Posted by: Johnny_Mnemonic on February 21, 2006 09:02 AM
Consider all of the advancement in the Linux desktop
in recent years. It is in part due to the competion
betweem projects that has motivated these
innovations. This is the greatest strength and some
might say, greatest weakness of open source. In the
end, it provides a unique environment were the best
will rise to the top. In this case the top spot
continues to change. I love it!

#

Re:Competition is good (RTFA)

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on February 21, 2006 09:23 PM

The entire article, from the very first sentence, is about how they are getting things done by collaborating. It follows with an explanation of how they can get lots done working together, and mutually self destuct by trying to compete.


You can agree or disagree with the idea that collaboration is a better system than competition, but don't pretend that people working together for mutual benefit (ie, F/OSS) is proof of the strength of competittion.

#

A historical note

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on March 01, 2006 11:57 PM
Tom,

You are a gentleman and I hope that this initiative succeeds.

However, two historical things need to be remebered:

1) The gnome project was started because KDE's development toolkit wasn't under the GPL. Now that it is, Gnome advocates say that that is bad too because, get this, proprietary software development houses would have to subsidize the building of free software by paying for the toolkit when they want to sell proprietary software. Go figure, huh?

2) Much of the acrimony between the projects is the direct result of the many falsehoods spread by the ximian monkeys. I personally have attended two talks in which Miguel de Icaza spent over 45 minutes demonizing the KDE desktop and its developers. Spreading falsehoods and innuendo helps no one.

In summary, it is nice to see that cooler heads seem to be prevailing as a new generation replaces the tired old-guard and it is great to see efforts such as this one. I just hope that we do not ever have to hear or see some of the dirty tricks and propaganda that we have witnessed before.

I don't claim that KDE is guilt-free either. I am sure that there have been bad apples in that project too, but my experience with KDE people has been that they have a healthier attitude of the free desktop, one which is not based on a zero-sum understanding of the free desktop game.

Good day

#

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