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Posted Jul 04, 2008 at 8:35:06 PM
Subject: Linux in the Elementary Classroom
My goal this summer is to find a version of Linux to install on ten donated desktops so that I may use them in my classroom for students age 9 to 12. Presently, the donated computers have some version of Windows 98. I first downloaded Ubuntu, then DSL, and now CentOS 5.0. Ubuntu would not load past the big X so I'm assuming I did not have enough memory. DSL loaded fine but there are not enough applications in the preload to make it feasable to use. I read that CentOS 5. was a good choice for a classroom computer. I have erased the hard drive which had Windows 98 on an older HP desktop and it appears to be loaded but when I reboot and remove the DVD, it will not boot. If I leave the DVD in the drive, it assumes I need to reinstall. I'm sure this is an easy fix but I'm at a loss. I really am looking for a step by step from someone you may have this information published for teachers who want to switch to Linux on older computers so we may offer more technology to our students. Two additional questions:
1. Which version of Linux would you recommend for an elementary classroom?
2. Do all of the Linux installs require a boot disk to always be present?
Thanks in advance for your help.
JGB Teacher
www.jgbteacher.com
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Lin
Joined Jul 04, 2008 Posts: 29
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Posted:
Jul 04, 2008 9:06:48 PM
Subject: Linux in the Elementary Classroom
1. Ubuntu or Edubuntu. Or any *buntu favour plus add edu package later with synaptic.
2. No. Its required by any OS, in order to boot it, that the so called bootloader is installed. It can reside on CD, floppy, USB, HDD in MBR or on the zero track of any primary partition. If you install to HDD as your only or multiboot system, you need no disk. GRUB is currently considered the best bootloader.
Regarding the memory issue, try Ubuntu Live CD, if it boots, then its not a memory issue.
BTW it would sure make things a little easier if you'd put the PCs hardware specs here =)
Thanks!
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JGB Teacher
Joined Jul 04, 2008 Posts: 8
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Posted:
Jul 04, 2008 9:25:25 PM
Subject: Linux in the Elementary Classroom
So sorry... I meant to post this with my original message:
Model number
D7461A
Base processor and speed
Intel Pentium (R) III 550 Megahertz (MHz) processor
Chipset
440 BX
Memory
Component Attributes
RAM (standard) 128 megabytes (MB) SDRAM standard
Maximum 384 MB (3 x 128 MB DIMM)
Speed 100 MHz synchronous
Sockets Three 168-pin DIMMs
Size 16, 32, 64, and 128 MB DIMMs
Pairs Required No
Type Supported SDRAM, 100 MHz,
Intel PC SDRAM unbuffered DIMM specification, revision 1.0 compliant
Cache
Level Quantity
Level 1 (Primary) 32 kilobytes (KB) (on processor)
Upgrade Sockets None
Level 2 512 KB (on processor)
Hard drive
20 gigabytes (GB) (3.5-inch form factor)
Thanks, Lin!
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Lin
Joined Jul 04, 2008 Posts: 29
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Posted:
Jul 05, 2008 8:57:32 PM
Subject: Linux in the Elementary Classroom
Hm, 128 Megs are actually no problem, but putting one extra 128MB 100MHz Dimm module will sure boost perfomance. But its actually not needed, since theres swap anyway. Such tuning as lowering eye candy and uninstalling/replacing existing packages with less resource demanding equivalents would also help.
Theres another interesting PC network building possibility as well: http://www.edubuntu.org/images/ltsp_inet.png
http://www.edubuntu.org/GettingStarted
But since youre main points are not only low resource usage but also an OS thats perfect for nontechnical users out of the box, for this age group edubuntu is perfect. It is Debian based distro, so updates are quick, safe and it has very huge community. Edubuntu is especially targeted for schools, so I think you can find ppl there, which already have built simular projects.
If youll be using the setup commercially, theres paid support as well, which may speed up the installation a lot and its a fair alternative, should the community not be able to answer your questions in time.
Lin
PS
Im actually relatively new to Linux, but not to win32. But switched cause linux is actually THE OS for the computing. Anyway, XFCE Debian(Ubuntu's big brother) consumes 80 MB RAM on boot @ my machine and there ARE ways to lower mem usage even more.
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Kiski
Joined Jun 30, 2008 Posts: 11
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Posted:
Jul 05, 2008 9:18:36 PM
Subject: Linux in the Elementary Classroom
Regarding the CentOS install. Where did you install the bootloader (grub) (e.g. the / partition or the master boot record MBR.)) If you installed it on the / partition, try reinstalling it on the MBR.
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JGB Teacher
Joined Jul 04, 2008 Posts: 8
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Posted:
Jul 06, 2008 1:46:41 AM
Subject: Linux in the Elementary Classroom
I am obviously doing something wrong. I have added 384 MB (3 x 128 MB DIMM) in the HP desktop now and I have downloaded Ubuntu 8, CentOS 5, Edubuntu, and the only one that will actually load without errors is Damn Small Linux.
Let me ask you this... when I burn the image from the file onto my CD/DVD, is there anything additional that I must add to it? Kiski asked where I loaded the Grub file. Honestly, I just chose the INSTALL to harddrive option and did nothing extra. When that did not work, I try the install that works from the CD/DVD, that doesn't work either... it stops somewhere in the middle.
I notice that in the Damn Small Linux, I have a grub file loaded because it asks me which file to load at startup.
I reformatted the hard drives so all Windows programs are off of the two computers that I'm working with to simulate what I will have at school to work with. One is the deskop I mentioned earlier and the other is an HP Laptop F3250:
MPN F1916A#ABA
Key Features
Processor K6-2 475 MHz
Installed Memory 64 MB (SDRAM)
Hard Drive 6 GB IDE
Display 12.1 in. TFT Active Matrix
Processor
Processor Manufacturer AMD
Processor Type K6-2
Processor Speed 475 MHz
Motherboard
Bus Speed 100 MHz
(While reloading Edbuntu on the HP Desktop, this error was scrolling down the screen....
SQUASHFS errors ) No matter which one I try... only the DSL actually loads. I did a disk check for errors and several of the earlier CDs had 1 error so I slowed down the burn speed. Even that did not allow me to install the programs. When your hard disk is re-formatted, it doesn't need a partition to work, does it?
It looks like my downloads are all the "live CDs". Should I be downloading something else?
Thanks for any suggestions... I've spent all week with nothing to show for it. (Accept the DSL... at least I'm happy I have that one. However, I'm not sure ten year olds would get much use out of it.)
I have got to figure something out so that I can removed the contents of the donated computers (which will all be different) and learn how to effectively load one of those programs.
Thanks for all of your suggestions... I'm learning.
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JGB Teacher
Joined Jul 04, 2008 Posts: 8
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Posted:
Jul 06, 2008 5:10:14 AM
Subject: Linux in the Elementary Classroom
Update....
See specs above...
I was able to upload EduPup. I have not worked with it as yet but the graphics are clear and the install was very smooth. YEAH!!! Success on one more Linux program. I'm still curious as to why this one actually worked. I'm wondering if it has anything to do with the documentation stating that this small program loads in the RAM. The two programs that I've had success with are DSL and now EduPup. Both are very small files... interesting...
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JGB Teacher
Joined Jul 04, 2008 Posts: 8
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Posted:
Jul 06, 2008 5:30:19 AM
Subject: Linux in the Elementary Classroom
Well... I was trying out EduPup and when I clicked on HardDisks, it froze and the two lights on the keyboard began flashing and I had to shut off the computer.
Thanks again for those of you who offered suggestions. I really appreciate it.
I'm downloading Fedora but I have a feeling, my computers are only going to run on the very small programs. I am so happy to be using programs in my classroom that are OpenSource. :-)
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Lin
Joined Jul 04, 2008 Posts: 29
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Posted:
Jul 06, 2008 3:26:45 PM
Subject: Linux in the Elementary Classroom
Interesting=)
You see, GRUB can install itself on the first sector of any standart bootable partition (/) or on MBR - first(actually zero) track of the disk drive.
You said that you used liveCDs, - did you actually manage to BOOT from this disks with 128mb RAM??? Cause when booting from CD, theres no such thing as swap. Everything must go to RAM, even temporary stuff. That could be the reason... There are "setup only" disks too, that have emergency boot mode integrated too, should something bad happen to the installed system, try them.
Maybe you should start isolation of the problems. I mean if you install some distro, and you ran into the problem - take time to look why it happend, note the logs, post to the distro forum... it can be that there something with your hardware, BIOS setup or specific component that is shared over some distributions and prevents installing. Especially "SQUASHFS errors" may belong to bad blocks on hard drives, (too much)overclocked or misconfigured system.
DSL is excellent distro, I heard a lot about it. But I think it requires more knowlege to configure it... Anyway there are no such thing as seperation in *nix. Distros are just packed with different stuff and configured differently. No wasted experience)
[Modified by: Lin on July 06, 2008 03:28 PM]
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JGB Teacher
Joined Jul 04, 2008 Posts: 8
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Posted:
Jul 06, 2008 5:42:02 PM
Subject: Linux in the Elementary Classroom
Thanks, Lin,
I'm so excited about Linux and all of the possibilities. I will probably spend most of my summer before school starts again trying to figure out what will work in my classroom. However, I'm not only interested in the classroom, I'm interested for myself as well. I see that I've stumbled across a whole new area to learn, the world of Linux. I know it has been out there a long time, but I'm now at a place when I don't have the resources to buy what I want to share with my kids. The whole concept of Open Source is wonderful. I use Dreamweaver and Photoshop and will eventually look for something similar as I won't be putting out $1,000 for Creative Suite 3 but once. I teach students (older elementary) how to use Paint Shop Pro and WebEditor and the students are amazing. I found Open Office this past year and used that with students.
Great idea about keeping a log of what is working and what is not. I'll do just that. I installed Puppy 4 this morning and so far, it is working just fine, also. I bet I do have bad sectors or something misconfigured on my hard drive. I have a feeling that most of the CDs I downloaded were "live" because I remember a couple took all day to load and they wouldn't boot so they may have been the setup disks. I shouldn't say they wouldn't load, all of the cds were able to load the introduction screen and menu but after that is where many froze, etc. I have another older machine that I'll work with this week and keep track of what I can load and not load on it as well.
Again, thanks for taking the time to help. I really appreciate it.
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Lin
Joined Jul 04, 2008 Posts: 29
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Posted:
Jul 06, 2008 7:29:46 PM
Subject: Linux in the Elementary Classroom
No problem, Im not the only one helping) You help me too!
BTW found a ubuntu based distro, that is stripped of all heavy stuff: Fluxbuntu
It should be easy just to add needed things thru synaptic, quasi convert it to stripped down edubuntu. Just as another alternative.
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JGB Teacher
Joined Jul 04, 2008 Posts: 8
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Posted:
Jul 07, 2008 11:43:01 PM
Subject: Linux in the Elementary Classroom
Quick update... I was able to load Fluxbuntu to my oldest HP Laptop with only 64 mg RAM in light install. It works great. My HP Desktop, mentioned above, would not load so it continues to look like hard drive errors. I'm going to try a different hard drive and install again. Fluxbuntu has a lot of promise and I really like Puppy 4 and EduPup for my students. :-) Absolute truth: There is always something new and exciting to learn... life is NEVER boring! :-)
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raluxs
Joined May 14, 2008 Posts: 27
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Posted:
Jul 09, 2008 6:58:48 PM
Subject: Linux in the Elementary Classroom
Ok, some big IF's here:
IF you can connect these computers over a LAN, and
IF you can get 1 better PC to act as a server (Some Pentium 4 or dual core with some 2Gb of ram, more or less).
Then your best bet is to make the PCs work as thin clients and run your apps from the server, read about the Linux Terminal Server Project (http://www.ltsp.org/). There are several success cases at schools and bussiness alike. Give it a try.
Good luck
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JGB Teacher
Joined Jul 04, 2008 Posts: 8
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Posted:
Jul 09, 2008 7:25:32 PM
Subject: Linux in the Elementary Classroom
Thank you! I will give it a try. I have a lot of computers that I could use as thin clients. I'll see what I can do about finding a newer one with more power. Thanks for the link and advice. :-)
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