Linux.com

Feature

Can Ogg Vorbis change digital audio?

By on May 16, 2003 (8:00:00 AM)

Share    Print    Comments   

- by Anne Zieger -
When consumers refer to digital music, they usually mean the MP3 format. One open source organization, however, would like to change the terms of the digital audio game. The Xiph.Org Foundation, a non-profit dedicated to creating open source multimedia software, has created an open source audio encoder/decoder named <SLASH HREF="http://xiph.org/ogg/vorbis/" ID="f2f535d9b85f8ebc059af0f17fb7362b" TITLE="" TYPE="LINK">Ogg Vorbis</SLASH>. Vorbis, part of a family of open source multimedia apps, is trying to gain ground as a free alternative to MP3.

To date, roughly 100 million devices play digital audio encoded using MP3, the MPEG-1/MPEG-2 Layer 3 standard developed by the International Organization for Standardization. More than one billion MP3 files are downloaded from the Internet each month, according to MP3 patent manager Thomson, a large French-based consumer electronics company.

The downside to this, some say, is that MP3 is controlled by Thomson, whose licensing fees arguably put MP3 encoding out of the reach of some independent developers and broadcasters.

Xiph technologies –- including the Ogg bitstream format specification and the Vorbis RTP packet spec -– are currently under standards consideration by the Internet Engineering Task Force.

Perhaps more importantly, gaming companies, hardware manufacturers, Web publishers, streaming audio developers and various other independents interested in digital audio are incorporating Vorbis into their products -- far from enough to unseat the MP3 hegemony but enough to make some ripples in the software world.

"We may never overcome the MP3 mindshare, but our goal wasn't to build a super-strong brand," says Jack Moffitt, executive director of the Xiph.Org Foundation and developer of open source streaming media system Icecast. "It was to make multimedia technology free in every sense of the word -- to build a stable and excellent platform for future development."

At the high end of the fee scale, MP3 licensees can pay as much as $5 per device to use the MP3 encoder; the decoder fee ranges from a flat $50K for traditional MP3 to $90K for the next-gen MP3PRO. Thomson is seeking 2 to 3 percent of revenues in fees from companies that broadcast MP3s as well.

Xiph.Org, meanwhile, which distributes Vorbis for free under the BSD license, is attracting a growing community of developers and manufacturers unwilling to pay the price for MP3 technology.

Licensing Ogg Vorbis was a "no-brainer," says Joe Born, chairman and CTO of Chicago-based Digital Innovations LLC, which licensed Ogg Vorbis for use with its Neuros audio device. "Much of the innovation in digital audio has come from the open source community," Born says. "We wanted to open up our player and encourage that kind of development."

Xiph.Org is an umbrella organization for a group of open source multimedia development projects. Other projects operated by Xiph.Org include Ogg Theora, a video code developed in cooperation with On2 Technologies; Free Lossless Audio Codec (FLAC); and Speex, a low bitrate codec designed for speech compression. Vorbis, however, is probably the highest-profile aspect of the project.

To speed adoption, Xiph hopes to make things as easy as possible for users. Rather than create its own player, Xiph.Org offers plug-ins which allow well-known players such as Winamp and Linux-based xmms to play Ogg-formatted files. The idea, Moffitt says, is to make things simpler for consumers by creating a file format that can run on all standard players.

"Anyone on a Mac who tries to play WMA is out of luck," Moffitt points out. "They'd have to figure out where to find the media player for Mac, install that, and hope that the MIME types get registered correctly. QuickTime does not play WMA or WMV and Windows Media Player won't play QuickTime."

So far, Ogg Vorbis's biggest supporters have been in game development space, Moffitt says. A growing list of game developers have chosen to license Ogg Vorbis rather than pay the $2,500 to $3,750 per title Thomson charges game developers.

Thomson execs, for their part, say they have no interest in squeezing out of the marketplace free software from Xiph.Org or anyone else. In fact, Henri Linde, vice president for new business with Thomson's patent and licensing unit, dismisses Ogg Vorbis as a market force. "It's not on our radar," he says.

Thomson engineers have tested Ogg Vorbis data compression and quality and concluded that it performs more or less on the same level as Real Networks and Microsoft technology. Without offering a dramatic improvement over these other technologies, Ogg is unlikely to attract mass consumer adoption, Linde contends. "You'd want to see instead of compressing data 10X, compressing 100X or 200X the original data," Linde says. "That's the only area where I can see an order-of-magnitude improvement. I don't think there's much room for improved quality."

It's Microsoft, whose Windows Media Audio standard competes with MP3, that gives Thomson pause, Linde says. After all, the Windows Media Player is included with every copy of Windows, putting it on virtually every PC in the world and giving the WMA format a shot at unseating MP3.

"We've seen in multiple instances the attempt to make their solution the standard solution," Linde says. "I think as soon as the big company in Redmond is interested in a market, everybody should take that seriously."

Though Thomson essentially owns the audio playback niche at the moment, Microsoft has also shown an increasingly strong interest in the device market. Most recently, Microsoft announced that it would hardware giant Creative Labs would be releasing a personal media player running MS's "Media2Go" software platform. Media2Go, built on top of Windows CE .NET, can run video and audio files, as well as displaying still images.

Devices are also the next frontier Xiph.Org wants to crack. "We want Vorbis in hardware, so that people can take their music with them," Moffitt says. "This has been a big weakness for us for some time."

Ultimately, despite its being free, open source software, Ogg Vorbis faces major obstacles in gaining mainstream acceptance. While Ogg files may be comparatively simple to use, they don't play automatically in every player, and in the consumer business, adding even a single extra step can be fatal.

After all, while Xiph has signed a deal with Real Networks under which the Real player automatically downloads an Ogg audio reader if needed, don't expect MS to do that kind of deal anytime soon. And Moffitt hasn't got any unrealistic expectations there: "Microsoft is not going to give us the time of day, much less sign a deal to make the user experience for Ogg [files] better."

Anne Zieger is a technology and business writer whose work has appeared in Information Week, Byte, Business Week, Forbes and CNNfn.

Share    Print    Comments   

Comments

on Can Ogg Vorbis change digital audio?

Note: Comments are owned by the poster. We are not responsible for their content.

Maybe the compression isn't better...

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on May 16, 2003 05:30 PM
But if you check out to the samples at <A HREF="http://www.xiph.org/ogg/vorbis/listen.html" TITLE="xiph.org">http://www.xiph.org/ogg/vorbis/listen.html</a xiph.org>
the sound quality is clearly better thanks to the variable bitrate.

- rippeld at hillsboroughcounty dot org.

#

Ogg is better

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on May 16, 2003 06:26 PM
In my own listening tests with different formats what I hear is vastly superior sound in Ogg format.

It's true what they say, bitrate isn't important, its the quality of the sound, so I always encode in six because I stop being able to tell the difference between CD and Ogg at that level (I suspect its because Ogg doesn't mix stereo at six and above).

Speaking of bitrate though, when I encode an mp3 at a level where I can't tell the difference at all it ends up a much higher bitrate than Ogg or a higher nominal bitrate (For VBR) and always, always a bigger size.

Not only is Ogg patent free, but beats the competition in every way except usage, I think that will change over time.

You can even strip bitage from it to leave a smaller file without de/re-encoding. You can concatenate the files and all the tags remain intact meaning you could create an album file that could always tell which song it was playing.

With broadcasts a user can only ask for a certain amount of quality or banwidth and the broadcast stream accomodates with no de/re-encoding and no need to store multiple copies, just one high quality master file.

For all these reasons and also because Linux is growing from strength to strength and the biggest distributions support it by default I really do believe that Ogg is the way of the future.

Well done to the programmers behind this, people like you are the reason I'm proud to call myself a programmer.

#

And...

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on May 16, 2003 08:14 PM
(from the article):

>"Microsoft is not going to give us the time of day, much less sign a deal to make the user experience for Ogg [files] better."

Quite probably true - which goes to show how genuinely interested in the "consumer experience" MS is (not!).

#

Re:And...

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on May 18, 2003 02:45 PM
Why should they be interested in the "consumer experience" of a competing format? AOL doesn't give a damn about the "consumer experience" when using MSN. IBM doesn't care about the "consumer experience" if someone is using Unisys equipment.

Ogg is a competitor. Plain and simple - it's up to Ogg to create a good consumer experience, not Microsoft.

#

Idea ?

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on May 16, 2003 09:28 PM
Take Ogg Vorbis and give it away for free on sampler disks (Knoppix or Eagle Linux bootable CDs or DVD media). These CDs might also be able to read MP3 files thru a licensed player already loaded on the drive (read-only format Knoppix or Eagle Linux bootable CDs).

The next player format will be for DVD meadia reading drives to be installed in portable CD players (Removable DVD media is better than hard drives as can be swaped, can use less power, and are not as "fragile and environment sensitive")- it is here that Ogg should focus and be first to market where others would need to follow!

Companies like Phillips and Sony because of the numbers they do would be interested in DVD player concept as they must hate paying for MP3 License AND they are major players in DVD Burner market and DVD portable Off player would drive the sales of those units (the units could play MP3 Cds Reg Cds, etc - but only DVD media with Ogg files!

#

Ogg Vorbis vs. MP3

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on May 16, 2003 10:59 PM
I was using Vorbis exclusively for a while but contrary to their claims, I found the sound quality worse than MP3. I also found it very objectionable that last year the Ogg Vorbis site was trying to make a marketing push out of misinformation -- saying that MP3 was going to start to charge for software decoders. They had a press release saying people should therefore switch to Ogg Vorbis well after it was established that the MP3 licensing in fact had never changed.

aziegenfus@mindspring.com

#

Re:Ogg Vorbis vs. MP3

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on May 16, 2003 11:37 PM
http://www.mp3licensing.com/royalty/index.html

They do charge for software decoders.

I'm guessing the rest is bollocks as well.

#

Re:Ogg Vorbis vs. MP3

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on May 16, 2003 11:58 PM
Yes but those rules are not being applied to free mp3 decoders, as was clearly brought out after XIPH made its ridiculous claims. See http://www.cd-rw.org/news/archive/3258.cfm. For my part, I'm sticking with mp3 for now. Besides I could never get Ogg Vorbis to work on my Dec Alpha.

#

Re:Ogg Vorbis vs. MP3

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on May 19, 2003 05:42 PM
So is xmms in the Red Hat 7.3 distro i bought a "free" decoder. Free as i speech yes (in europe), no (in us), as in beer no.

Thompson could sue RedHat and also possibly me for using it without having bought a patent license.

You see the problem is a little more problematic than your simplistic idea of free stuff.

#

Re:Ogg Vorbis vs. MP3

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on May 21, 2003 04:04 AM
I suppose they could sue. But it doesn't change the fact that XIPH lied about MP3 licensing in order to prop up Ogg.

#

Re:Ogg Vorbis vs. MP3

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 01, 2003 06:44 AM
I really don't think given the situation that you can call it lying as a simple black-and-white. Suppose you're building Yet Another Portable Digital Music Thingy and you've got to choose just one format based on quality and feasibility of licensing. Given that quality is comparable between MP3 and Vorbis (or runs slightly in favor of Vorbis, at least in my opinion), are you going to choose MP3 with its $5-per-unit royalty, or Ogg Vorbis, which costs you nothing and has open-source libraries available to allow you to include that free encoder that might just give you the edge on your competitor who's sitting there saying "but everyone uses MP3"? What's that about licensing again?

#

Re:Ogg Vorbis vs. MP3

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on May 28, 2003 04:42 AM
The rules are being applied, when you download somethin like winamp, aol takes the hit, but for something like xmms, it's illegal to use the decoder without paying.

#

Vorbis part of Multimedia Document

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on May 16, 2003 11:42 PM
If the W3C can utilize Vorbis and Theora in their Recommendations then I see billions of pages full of audio and video<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)

Under discussion in SVG mailist:
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2003M<nobr>a<wbr></nobr> y/0059.html

#

Been using if for about a year now...

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on May 17, 2003 05:48 AM
With great results. Playback using ogg123 is a lot less cpu intensive than mp3s with splay. Oggs don't seem to skip and pause when you open windows in Mozilla but splay does. Audio wise, they are very good for rock music and have great compression. I highly recommend ogg-vorbis for anybody, but especially for the home user or game developer.

#

Ogg sounds better

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on May 17, 2003 05:12 PM
Ogg sounds better, but as for compression there is alot of merit to using a lossless compression format for file transfers such as bzip2.

#

So use FLAC.

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on May 30, 2003 11:23 AM
bzip2 isn't a particularly effective compressor for audio; <A HREF="http://flac.sf.net/" TITLE="sf.net">FLAC</a sf.net> is almost certainly compresses better, decompresses much more quickly than it compresses (unlike, say, Shorten), and supports Vorbis-style tags.

#

French national radio broadcasts in ogg !

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on May 18, 2003 03:59 AM
When Radio France (French national broadcasting company) decided that it would broadcast its numerous programs on the internet using only the Microsoft's window media player proprietary format, a huge number of "free / open source software" users/advocates strongly reacted against the decision.

The results were seen less than one month later (if I remember well): the Ogg Vorbis format was also used to stream parts of their live broadcasts...

http://www.radiofrance.fr/services/aide/difflive.<nobr>p<wbr></nobr> hp#ogg

That was a big success for all of us, free software users.

Filippo Rusconi

#

Re:French national radio broadcasts in ogg !

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on May 19, 2003 12:16 PM
There's an extraneous space in the URL, so be prepared to edit if you blindly cut and paste (like I did.)

Once beyond that, there is some hot jazz playing now on the music stream<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...

#

As far as quality

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on May 18, 2003 11:15 AM
I personally thing Vorbis sounds a lot better than any high rate MP3 compression the quality is easy tell as long as your arn't listening to on a 2 channel 12.95 headphones. On hi-fi system u can easily! tell the diff. I really wish MP3 would go away. When I first installed Linux I was like "Ogg Vorbis?! wtf" now Its what I use to listen to on my PC but sigh I have to use MP3 for my player. =[

#

Everything I rip is in Ogg Vorbis

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on May 21, 2003 03:32 AM
If I rip something I always rip it in Ogg Vorbis at Q5 or Q6 (depending on how complicated the music is and the quality of the original recording, if the original is a mono track with bad frequency response, no need wasting bits on it<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:) )

But I play all of my music on the computer, and if I want to send to a friend, 99% of them have Winamp anyway. So this isn't a big deal. As far as portable devices, I have a nice little perl script that I can use to convert the Ogg to MP3 (using LAME of course!) and then transfer to my device. With a fast enough PC the conversion usually never takes more than a minute or two.

#

Compression, Jukeboxes, Float, and iTunes

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 10, 2003 12:08 AM
The author didn't point out potentially Ogg's largest flaws: its intensive use of floating point calculations and its CPU usage. I can rip WMA, RA8, or MP3 as fast as my CD-ROM can feed the data - 15-20x (I have an Athlon XP 2400+). With Ogg, I get 7-8x. Not to mention that, because of the floating point stuff, it is difficult for portable players to use the format. There is an interger decoder, but. . .

That said, Ogg is easily the best sounding. Much better than WMA and a tad better than Sony's ATRAC3plus. I use JRiver's Media Center to manage my music and the low setting comes out to about 78kbps and is nearly identical to CDDA. That coming from a person that thinks 128kbps WMA is slurry and that 160kbps WMA is merely accetable. It is clearly a much better codec than anything else that is out there in terms of sound quality.

A lot of people think that WMA is really good because MS's marketing machine is behind it. I have to admit that I like Windows Media Player. It has the best jukebox interface of anything for Windows, it can automatically update directory heirarchies and such, but WMA isn't its strong side. RealOne (v.2) produces better sound at 64kbps than WMA does at 128kbps thanks to Sony's ATRAC3 technology.

In the end, I keep my music collection in Ogg format because it is smaller for the same quality. Since I reformat my HD often, size matters a lot. Hey, I've got to back up all of those files. Of corse, when iTunes comes to Windows I'm probably going to give up Ogg for AAC, not because of the strength of the codec, but because it will allow faster ripping, good quality if not stellar, and a GREAT INTERFACE. There really aren't any jukeboxes for Ogg that do ripping with any thought put into the interface.

Oh well, perfection is always just a step out of reach. Anyone think they could write a plugin for iTunes to encode Ogg Vorbis files?

#

Flaws? I don't think so.

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 11, 2003 07:20 PM
Hi.

I don't think "intensive use of floating point calculations" can be a flaw. MP3 encoding on PCs tends to be very floating-point-calculation intensive. Even MP3 decoding is usually done in floating point. I would say that judging the use of floating point calculations to be a flaw is a mistake. Just because existing implementations are in floating point doesn't mean that it is difficult for portable players to use the format. MP3 is normally done in floating point too, but it gets used in portable players just fine.

Another note, on CPU usage being a flaw. I don't agree. To get high quality MP3s that can compete with Vorbis on sound quality, you have to encode with LAME, with the --alt-preset standard commandline option. Encoding with --ap s is usually a lot slower that encoding with oggenc, the reference vorbis encoder. So is Vorbis really more CPU intensive than MP3? I'm no expert, but current implementations are in favor of Vorbis.

#

Terrible name..

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on June 10, 2003 01:05 AM
I know this has been beat to death already, but the name is a problem. Its horrible and doesn't sound like the name of a media technology. Too bad, but marketing is still one of the weak points in the OSS community (well that and stubbornness, which has its ups and its downs).

#

This story has been archived. Comments can no longer be posted.



 
Tableless layout Validate XHTML 1.0 Strict Validate CSS Powered by Xaraya