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Feature: Linux
Spawn of Debian faceoff: LindowsOS 4.5
By Joe Barr
on
January 07, 2004 (8:00:00 AM)
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DistroWatch, which tracks more than 200 different flavors of Linux, lists 47 distros based on Debian. Debian's rep for being a tough install is belied by the fact that distributions based on Debian are often the easiest of Linux distributions to use and maintain. In the coming weeks, we're going to take a look at several of the most interesting of Debian's descendants, evaluating them on installation, connectivity, software maintenance, security, and support. We'll begin the series with a look at LindowsOS 4.5.
Connectivity
When installation was complete, I had connectivity to the Internet without having lifted a finger. The box got an IP address from the DHCP server in my Belkin router. Looking in the Internet Connectivity folder mentioned above, I found scripts for dial-up connectivity to ISPs, including AOL, NetZero, Juno, EarthLink, and SpeakEasy.
Next it was time to see if I could configure Lindows to use the HP printer on the desktop box. I never got the chance -- it was already done. I opened up a text editor, typed a paragraph or two, and selected the HP DeskJet 842C in the office -- the one I had never had a chance to tell it about -- and printed. I didn't have to lift a finger.
It just so happened that I had spent an hour unsuccessfully trying to help a friend do the same thing on their Windows home LAN the weekend before, but their Windows 98 and Windows XP boxes seemed to be talking different languages. Neither of them recognized the other. LindowsOS deserves credit for the ease with which it got printing working.
Software maintenance
Clicking on the CNR icon starts Lindows's Click-N-Run application. It took one click to install OpenOffice.org, another for Mplayer, and the same for any other application in the company's warehouse. The CNR inventory contains more than 1,800 items and they seem to be kept up-to-date. As with the installation, some granularity is lost. Whether that is a good thing or a bad thing depends on you.
When I install Mplayer on Mandrake 9.2 using urpmi, for example, I have to install both mplayer and mplayer-gui in order to get a GUI front-end for the popular video player. That's a good thing if you are a command-line kind of geek, but it's extra work if you're not. With CNR, you're not given the option. One click installs both, period. This is not the best distro for the CLI-oriented.
Security
As far as security issues go, the negative "buzz" is wrong. A firewall is installed by default. Users are not encouraged to run as root, but you can see how many will simply because they are not urged strongly enough not to do so. The use of a password is encouraged. LindowsOS does an OK job of keeping a system secure, but not a great one.
Lindows PR person Cheryl Schwarzman told me by email that "the system does not automatically update unless it is critical." If Lindows has not deemed a security issue to be critical (the last such update was for the Open SSH buffer overflow problem in September of 2003), a user has to look under "Updates -> Recommended" on a regular basis to keep his box secure. Considering the work put into ease of use during installation, in the desktop tutorial, and in CNR, I would say security is still not given a top priority.
Support
LindowsOS offers several types of support on its Web site. These include searchable FAQs, community forums, and "Ask Us" email tech support. While there is a community of enthusiastic LindowsOS users, there is not a lot of IRC presence to provide real time community-based support. In fact, I didn't find any IRC channels dedicated to LindowsOS. That's not to say that there aren't some out there, but if they are they aren't as visible in my usual online haunts as those of other distributions.
The final score
As you can see from the chart below, I graded LindowsOS 4.5 as a B+. Lindows is not your OG's (Original Geek's) Linux, but it is far and away the best Linux distribution for the mythical Mr. Joe Sixpack I've seen yet.
Installation is a breeze and CNR completely de-geekifies software maintenance chores. Applications can be added or updated as easily as the name suggests. The next time a non-technical user asks what version of Linux he should try, I won't hesitate to recommend LindowsOS. Note: The final grade originally showed 89. I corrected it after checking the math.
| Category | LindowsOS 4.5 |
| Installation | 90 |
| Connectivity | 95 |
| Security | 85 |
| Software maintenance | 95 |
| Free/Included Support | 75 |
| Final Grade | 88 |
Comments
on Spawn of Debian faceoff: LindowsOS 4.5Note: Comments are owned by the poster. We are not responsible for their content.
Thanks. You're right. Price needs to be considered. I'll have that in the rest of the series.
CNR is not just glorified apt. I use both, and CNR is by far better. I do use apt to upgrade any apps outdated in CNR, the ones that don't break things. But the ease of use definately goes to LindowsOS and CNR.
Free version is not really an issue. Suse doesn't stack up either, I tried it as well.
Free version is not really an issue. Suse doesn't stack up either, I tried it as well.
Once you have bought the LindowsOS($49.95) and are a member of ClickNRun($49.95 a year) (or $89.95 for both as a bundle), you get all LindowsOS upgrades for free. So for $49.95 a year, you get the ClickNRun, and free upgrades of LindowsOS. With SuSE Personal you would pay at least $39.95 if you upgraded once per year, and double that if you upgraded twice a year. So Lindows isn't free, but it isn't really any more expensive than SuSE.
And if you want to use other Linux Distros for free, everyone always has that choice. Which is why I also you Slackware. So I use when Lindows when I don't want to mess with anything and just use my computer, and Slackware when I want to learn more about the deeper levels of Linux. So every Distro has it's purpose.
And if you want to use other Linux Distros for free, everyone always has that choice. Which is why I also you Slackware. So I use when Lindows when I don't want to mess with anything and just use my computer, and Slackware when I want to learn more about the deeper levels of Linux. So every Distro has it's purpose.
I actually bought Lindows 4.5, just to check it out. Knocked it off of my PC for Mandrake 9.2 again. I enjoy Mandrake for the sheer number of ways in which you can do a particular job, be it from CLI or fromo a GUI/Wizard app.
Ideal for people who 'haven't got a clue' about computers. For ones who have 'some' clue, I think Xandros could be a godsend. Curious about the review though.
As for HW detection, I have still to find a distro that beats Knoppix.
Ideal for people who 'haven't got a clue' about computers. For ones who have 'some' clue, I think Xandros could be a godsend. Curious about the review though.
As for HW detection, I have still to find a distro that beats Knoppix.
Actually for the person that said Lindows is $100 you need to check your facts before you post. Lindows costs only $49.95 with a trial membership to Click-and-Run. If you purchase a click-and-run membership it is $89.00 (Value Bundle).
<A HREF="http://www.lindows.com/lindows_storefront.php?own=no" TITLE="lindows.com">http://www.lindows.com/lindows_storefront.php</a lindows.com>
And they have changed up from previous versions. You can check out:
<A HREF="http://info.lindows.com/coho/new/newfeatures2.html" TITLE="lindows.com">http://info.lindows.com/coho/new/newfeatures2.htm<nobr>l<wbr></nobr> </a lindows.com>
I believed the reviewer must have received a copy of the OEM version of Lindows 4.5. The Retail version included Open Office, Mplayer, and many other appliactions out of the box.
I know some people would say why would I buy what I can download for free with other distros. However, many distros in this space do charge for their distro and also charge for a library, CNR, club type of feature to download and install additional software easily.
I say that Lindows has done a great job with integrating the desktop into something that is usable by "Joe Sixpack" or "Mr. Geek" I enjoy running Lindows, because it just works. Period. Very stable, Feture rich, and easy to use. That is from a "Mr. Geek"
One final comment, in the growing arena of desktop linux used by the othe 95% of people (non-geek, non-techie) Lindows really shines. This is where the market is. And this is how a succesful Linux based company can profit and compete successfully.
<A HREF="http://www.lindows.com/lindows_storefront.php?own=no" TITLE="lindows.com">http://www.lindows.com/lindows_storefront.php</a lindows.com>
And they have changed up from previous versions. You can check out:
<A HREF="http://info.lindows.com/coho/new/newfeatures2.html" TITLE="lindows.com">http://info.lindows.com/coho/new/newfeatures2.htm<nobr>l<wbr></nobr> </a lindows.com>
I believed the reviewer must have received a copy of the OEM version of Lindows 4.5. The Retail version included Open Office, Mplayer, and many other appliactions out of the box.
I know some people would say why would I buy what I can download for free with other distros. However, many distros in this space do charge for their distro and also charge for a library, CNR, club type of feature to download and install additional software easily.
I say that Lindows has done a great job with integrating the desktop into something that is usable by "Joe Sixpack" or "Mr. Geek" I enjoy running Lindows, because it just works. Period. Very stable, Feture rich, and easy to use. That is from a "Mr. Geek"
One final comment, in the growing arena of desktop linux used by the othe 95% of people (non-geek, non-techie) Lindows really shines. This is where the market is. And this is how a succesful Linux based company can profit and compete successfully.
i did pay $99 but got two full versions of staroffice7 which some open ooo people think is a waste as well
but having quick easy to use db built in and a million templates are worth supporting a good cause. I am not new to linux (my systems include rh6-8, man 6-9.2, suse all, libranet 2.8, vector3.2 and 4.0, slack, deb, knoppix, smoothwall express, dos, win95,98,2000 )and I got to say it is nice to install a distro that works with everything i own by itself ( including a usb camera that won't work with every other distro, I mean not setting up anything... this is the type of distro that can overtake ms... now that said i still prefer vector or libranet for speed and using on old pc's, and knoppix for showing what awesome power linux has.but for casual pc people my kids, girl friend, and my grandmother this is it, it just works...
but having quick easy to use db built in and a million templates are worth supporting a good cause. I am not new to linux (my systems include rh6-8, man 6-9.2, suse all, libranet 2.8, vector3.2 and 4.0, slack, deb, knoppix, smoothwall express, dos, win95,98,2000 )and I got to say it is nice to install a distro that works with everything i own by itself ( including a usb camera that won't work with every other distro, I mean not setting up anything... this is the type of distro that can overtake ms... now that said i still prefer vector or libranet for speed and using on old pc's, and knoppix for showing what awesome power linux has.but for casual pc people my kids, girl friend, and my grandmother this is it, it just works...
Best Linux distribution for Mr. Joe Sixpack
Posted by: Kevin Carmony With L on January 08, 2004 12:33 AM
Joe,
Thanks for a very fair review. (By the way, are you "thee" mythical "Joe" Sixpack we've been longing to meet? =)
We really appreciate it when someone not only reviews LindowsOS, but actually reviews it in the context of our intended audience...the masses. To get the "average Joe" to try Linux, it needs to be ultra easy or they'll just run back to their comfort zone...MS Windows.
A few particular notes...
I want it to be known I did not start my review of LindowsOS 4.5 free of bias. In fact, I did not expect to like what I found.
And reviews like yours will help with the educating of those not familiar with LindowsOS.
About 15 or 20 minutes later the installer told me...
Everyone should keep in mind your testing was done on a $199 machine with only 128 MB RAM and an 800 Ghz processor. Even just by adding another 128 MB of RAM you'll find that your LindowsOS computer will race much more quickly.
On a typical machine someone might buy today for around $400, they'll find it takes under 10 minutes to install LindowsOS.
I had expected to find OpenOffice.org on the desktop...
Actually, you can even download the "full" version which comes with OpenOffice, MPlayer and Real Audio pre-installed. It's still only one CD, but a longer download. We make both options available since some people may choose to use StarOffice or some other office suite, so they'd just assume not download the bigger<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.iso with OpenOffice. I just wanted to clear up that the full one is available digitally as well, not just via the box set.
But, as you pointed out, the beauty with LindowsOS, is you can simply use CNR (click-n-run) to install whatever you want at any time.
As far as security issues go, the negative "buzz" is wrong.
Thanks again for helping with the education. This has been one heck of a monkey for us to try and shake. LindowsOS has supported users in every version since our release! It's been ultra easy to add users since our second BETA release. It's true we don't FORCE users to not run as root, but we don't believe "forcing" users to do anything is a very good idea. We like to offer more choices, not less.
As for pricing...
LindowsOS is free with many computers you can buy today. http://lindows.com/featured or $49.95 if purchased individually. (By the way, here's a way you can get LindowsOS for free when you buy StarOffice for only $49.95. http://staroffice.com )
The CNR service is either $4.95 a month, or $49.95 a year, or you can buy it with LOS for $89.95. Keep in mind that any software you install with CNR is yours for life and can be re-installed again at anytime, even if you let your CNR service expire. The idea of not wanting it to expire is to always have access to the new and updated programs that we add each week.
Thanks again,
Kevin Carmony
President, Lindows.com
Thanks for a very fair review. (By the way, are you "thee" mythical "Joe" Sixpack we've been longing to meet? =)
We really appreciate it when someone not only reviews LindowsOS, but actually reviews it in the context of our intended audience...the masses. To get the "average Joe" to try Linux, it needs to be ultra easy or they'll just run back to their comfort zone...MS Windows.
A few particular notes...
I want it to be known I did not start my review of LindowsOS 4.5 free of bias. In fact, I did not expect to like what I found.
And reviews like yours will help with the educating of those not familiar with LindowsOS.
About 15 or 20 minutes later the installer told me...
Everyone should keep in mind your testing was done on a $199 machine with only 128 MB RAM and an 800 Ghz processor. Even just by adding another 128 MB of RAM you'll find that your LindowsOS computer will race much more quickly.
On a typical machine someone might buy today for around $400, they'll find it takes under 10 minutes to install LindowsOS.
I had expected to find OpenOffice.org on the desktop...
Actually, you can even download the "full" version which comes with OpenOffice, MPlayer and Real Audio pre-installed. It's still only one CD, but a longer download. We make both options available since some people may choose to use StarOffice or some other office suite, so they'd just assume not download the bigger<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.iso with OpenOffice. I just wanted to clear up that the full one is available digitally as well, not just via the box set.
But, as you pointed out, the beauty with LindowsOS, is you can simply use CNR (click-n-run) to install whatever you want at any time.
As far as security issues go, the negative "buzz" is wrong.
Thanks again for helping with the education. This has been one heck of a monkey for us to try and shake. LindowsOS has supported users in every version since our release! It's been ultra easy to add users since our second BETA release. It's true we don't FORCE users to not run as root, but we don't believe "forcing" users to do anything is a very good idea. We like to offer more choices, not less.
As for pricing...
LindowsOS is free with many computers you can buy today. http://lindows.com/featured or $49.95 if purchased individually. (By the way, here's a way you can get LindowsOS for free when you buy StarOffice for only $49.95. http://staroffice.com )
The CNR service is either $4.95 a month, or $49.95 a year, or you can buy it with LOS for $89.95. Keep in mind that any software you install with CNR is yours for life and can be re-installed again at anytime, even if you let your CNR service expire. The idea of not wanting it to expire is to always have access to the new and updated programs that we add each week.
Thanks again,
Kevin Carmony
President, Lindows.com
Re:Best Linux distribution for Mr. Joe Sixpack
Posted by: Anonymous Coward on January 08, 2004 03:06 AMThanks again for helping with the education. This has been one heck of a monkey for us to try and shake. LindowsOS has supported users in every version since our release! It's been ultra easy to add users since our second BETA release. It's true we don't FORCE users to not run as root, but we don't believe "forcing" users to do anything is a very good idea. We like to offer more choices, not less.
I just installed Fedora and it on the first bootup configures somethings and asks if you want to create a user. (root was created during the installation.) It does not require you to create a user but it does recomend that you do. I think that if Lindows did this it would allay many of the security concerns and users would still have a choice.
Re:Best Linux distribution for Mr. Joe Sixpack
Posted by: Anonymous Coward on January 08, 2004 08:53 PM
"This is exactly what LindowsOS does do as well, so there shouldn't be any concerns."
Not quite. Fedora is a bit more in-your-face about adding a user.
Not quite. Fedora is a bit more in-your-face about adding a user.
Re:Best Linux distribution for Mr. Joe Sixpack
Posted by: Anonymous Coward on January 08, 2004 09:19 PM
"It's true we don't FORCE users to not run as root, but we don't believe 'forcing' users to do anything is a very good idea. We like to offer more choices, not less."
Except that you already make a lot of choices for the user (some of which were pointed out in the review), and that's a Good Thing(TM), because your target users simply don't have the experience or background to make those choices themselves. You pick the desktop--KDE. You decide what software is part of the initial install. You configure the hardware--without intervention from the user. You make all these choices, already, and are mostly praised for it, and rightfully so. Making users run as users, and not as root, would be another such decision.
You want to get that "monkey" off your back for good? Then do what even Xandros does when it comes to users and root.
Except that you already make a lot of choices for the user (some of which were pointed out in the review), and that's a Good Thing(TM), because your target users simply don't have the experience or background to make those choices themselves. You pick the desktop--KDE. You decide what software is part of the initial install. You configure the hardware--without intervention from the user. You make all these choices, already, and are mostly praised for it, and rightfully so. Making users run as users, and not as root, would be another such decision.
You want to get that "monkey" off your back for good? Then do what even Xandros does when it comes to users and root.
Who would pay for any OS based on opensource software/sourcecode? That takes the whole meaning out of Linux. People(and companies) like this make linux's colors fade and give it a bad rep. If I want a linux distro, i may shell out a few buck for a donation(just as SuSE want you to do) but i aint giving $89 at the most for a linux based os (which is just debain with a few different features and "cnr") Have i made my point clear?! hope so
Bottom line: Dont buy it-(nothing to write home about)<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-D
Bottom line: Dont buy it-(nothing to write home about)<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-D
Lindows runs it's own windows applications on top of emulation software based on opensource software (wine) for example the SIPphone, yet lindows still maintains prohibitive licensing on Mp3.
Lindows is poised for a buyout of reiserfs.
Lindows has it's hand in KDE byway of SCO-->TrollTech-->QT-->KDE, yes Lindows has a contract with SCO.
Lindows is a preditory animal.
Lindows is poised for a buyout of reiserfs.
Lindows has it's hand in KDE byway of SCO-->TrollTech-->QT-->KDE, yes Lindows has a contract with SCO.
Lindows is a preditory animal.
hmmm interesting. Id know a lot of people that would be pissed if both happened. I dont think Lindows will buy Reiser o.O and as far as SCO goes im pretty sure theyll just make idiots of themselves.
Of course everyone knows Lindows isnt Linux, and I really dont care about Mr. Joe Six pack no more. Im sick of hearing about that guy! Its like um... ok its nice others can use it but if we have to make it easy for those who are too dumb to learn thats just sad. If its Linux it should feel like Linux! not look and feel like windows.
Of course everyone knows Lindows isnt Linux, and I really dont care about Mr. Joe Six pack no more. Im sick of hearing about that guy! Its like um... ok its nice others can use it but if we have to make it easy for those who are too dumb to learn thats just sad. If its Linux it should feel like Linux! not look and feel like windows.
Obviously troll-bait here that I am taking, but I figure I'd give in and reply to these comments anyway.
First of all, the SIPPhone client isn't ours - It's produced by a company named XTen. (No, not the popup company X10<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-) )
We're not buying out reiserfs. Michael first supported their endeavors via MP3.com and is now continuing that support.
Finally, everything concerning Lindows.com and SCO can be read at http://www.lindows.com/sco
-Brian
First of all, the SIPPhone client isn't ours - It's produced by a company named XTen. (No, not the popup company X10<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-) )
We're not buying out reiserfs. Michael first supported their endeavors via MP3.com and is now continuing that support.
Finally, everything concerning Lindows.com and SCO can be read at http://www.lindows.com/sco
-Brian
I remember when Lindows was first coming out and the big thing they toted was the Windows compatibility. I was really dissappointed that this review didn't even mention it! I've never tried Lindows myself (I use Suse 9.0 w/ WineX) and was interested to see how Lindows would stack up. Thanks for the review anyway, but next time try to review the features the platform totes for itself as that's why most people would be interested in such a review.
Kleedrac
Kleedrac
Have you tried wine lately? Only useful for some programs... They probably realized that wine is still in dev mode and is not ready for joe six pack.
Hey, Kleedrac
You might want to look around the Lindows website a bit and see what they are saying about Windows compatibility these days. I don't think it's a big part of their sales strategy these days.
Check this page, for example:
http://www.lindows.com/lindows_sales_intro.php
See ya,
Joe Barr
You might want to look around the Lindows website a bit and see what they are saying about Windows compatibility these days. I don't think it's a big part of their sales strategy these days.
Check this page, for example:
http://www.lindows.com/lindows_sales_intro.php
See ya,
Joe Barr
I've been using WINE since version 3.0 of Lindows, and NEVER got it to work.
No matter what.
I've tried to install Office 97 which is supposed to be supported by WINE and it doesn't work.
No docs or support are given with WINE.
So, that part of Lindows doesn't work at all.
No matter what.
I've tried to install Office 97 which is supposed to be supported by WINE and it doesn't work.
No docs or support are given with WINE.
So, that part of Lindows doesn't work at all.
uh, if you go to their site you'll find out they abandoned that approach years ago. that's all.
LindowsOS Doesn't Try to Run MS Windows Programs
Posted by: Kevin Carmony With L on January 08, 2004 11:43 AM
We dropped WINE or trying to run MS Windows software a LONG time ago. You can read more about this here: <A HREF="http://lindows.com/mswindows" TITLE="lindows.com">http://lindows.com/mswindows</a lindows.com>
I guess the irony here is the company that a couple of years ago came
on the scene thinking we would try to run MS Windows software, is now the biggest advocate for NOT running MS Windows software.
We seem to be one of the biggest cheerleaders these days for the
development of great LINUX software. We'd rather see time, money
and energy going to <A HREF="http://lindows.com/opensource" TITLE="lindows.com">these projects</a lindows.com>, than trying to keep Microsoft in business by having everyone still buy their expensive applications. =)
Kevin Carmony
President, Lindows.com, Inc.
I guess the irony here is the company that a couple of years ago came
on the scene thinking we would try to run MS Windows software, is now the biggest advocate for NOT running MS Windows software.
We seem to be one of the biggest cheerleaders these days for the
development of great LINUX software. We'd rather see time, money
and energy going to <A HREF="http://lindows.com/opensource" TITLE="lindows.com">these projects</a lindows.com>, than trying to keep Microsoft in business by having everyone still buy their expensive applications. =)
Kevin Carmony
President, Lindows.com, Inc.
Re:LindowsOS Doesn't Try to Run MS Windows Program
Posted by: patriot_games on January 08, 2004 04:33 PM
No, that's why you run it on codeweavers and codeweavers is based on wine.
My complaint is you're getting a lot of mileage out of free software but on the other hand distros like RedHat can't support Mp3.
You can argue with me all you want but public opinion will not side with you and your patented software.
Lindows is in bed with SCO probably, i'm just guessing, Micheal Robertson is a Mormon just like McBride.
My complaint is you're getting a lot of mileage out of free software but on the other hand distros like RedHat can't support Mp3.
You can argue with me all you want but public opinion will not side with you and your patented software.
Lindows is in bed with SCO probably, i'm just guessing, Micheal Robertson is a Mormon just like McBride.
Re:LindowsOS Doesn't Try to Run MS Windows Program
Posted by: Kevin Carmony With L on January 08, 2004 05:08 PM
Fiction: No, that's why you run it on codeweavers and codeweavers is based on wine.
Fact: Lindows.com doesn't use Codeweavers for anything. You must have us confused with Xandros or SuSE, they do.
Fact: <A HREF="http://lindows.com/mswindows" TITLE="lindows.com">http://lindows.com/mswindows </a lindows.com>
Fiction: My
complaint is you're getting a lot of mileage out of free software
Fact: The beauty of open source software is anyone can get mileage out of it.
Fact: We have spent millions of dollars advancing "free"
software. We spent over half a million on WINE alone, which we
don't even use anymore. <A HREF="http://lindows.com/opensource" TITLE="lindows.com">http://lindows.com/opensource</a lindows.com>
Fiction: <nobr> <wbr></nobr>...but
on the other hand distros like RedHat can't support Mp3.
Fact: I haven't a clue what you're talking about. (I have this feeling either does patriot_games<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;-)
Fact: Michael Robertson was the founder of MP3.com, NOT
the MP3 format. This
would be like saying that Amazon.com invented books and then being
upset at them because books are copyrighted. Ridiculous.
Fiction: You can argue with me all you want but public opinion will not side with you and your patented software.
Fact: I actually think you're probably helping sway public opinion our way more than anything I could say. =)
Fiction: Lindows is in bed with SCO
Fact: <A HREF="http://lindows.com/sco" TITLE="lindows.com">http://lindows.com/sco</a lindows.com>
Fiction: I'm just guessing, Micheal Robertson is a Mormon just like McBride.
Fact: Michael Robertson isn't a Mormon, Jewish, Jehovah's Witness,
Buddhist, Harri Krishna, or <insert whatever religion patriot_games
would like to show prejudice for and make fun of here>
Kevin
Fact: Lindows.com doesn't use Codeweavers for anything. You must have us confused with Xandros or SuSE, they do.
Fact: <A HREF="http://lindows.com/mswindows" TITLE="lindows.com">http://lindows.com/mswindows </a lindows.com>
Fiction: My
complaint is you're getting a lot of mileage out of free software
Fact: The beauty of open source software is anyone can get mileage out of it.
Fact: We have spent millions of dollars advancing "free"
software. We spent over half a million on WINE alone, which we
don't even use anymore. <A HREF="http://lindows.com/opensource" TITLE="lindows.com">http://lindows.com/opensource</a lindows.com>
Fiction: <nobr> <wbr></nobr>...but
on the other hand distros like RedHat can't support Mp3.
Fact: I haven't a clue what you're talking about. (I have this feeling either does patriot_games<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;-)
Fact: Michael Robertson was the founder of MP3.com, NOT
the MP3 format. This
would be like saying that Amazon.com invented books and then being
upset at them because books are copyrighted. Ridiculous.
Fiction: You can argue with me all you want but public opinion will not side with you and your patented software.
Fact: I actually think you're probably helping sway public opinion our way more than anything I could say. =)
Fiction: Lindows is in bed with SCO
Fact: <A HREF="http://lindows.com/sco" TITLE="lindows.com">http://lindows.com/sco</a lindows.com>
Fiction: I'm just guessing, Micheal Robertson is a Mormon just like McBride.
Fact: Michael Robertson isn't a Mormon, Jewish, Jehovah's Witness,
Buddhist, Harri Krishna, or <insert whatever religion patriot_games
would like to show prejudice for and make fun of here>
Kevin
Re:LindowsOS Doesn't Try to Run MS Windows Program
Posted by: Anonymous Coward on January 09, 2004 02:28 AM
Thanks for clearing that guy up theres some real loony toons running around here sometimes.
Re:LindowsOS Doesn't Try to Run MS Windows Program
Posted by: Anonymous Coward on January 08, 2004 05:07 PM
please change your name... lindowsOS doesn't sound good anymore considering that you came to market to run windows software... there's no big problem with that as many companies have changed their name...
Re:LindowsOS Doesn't Try to Run MS Windows Program
Posted by: Kevin Carmony With L on January 08, 2004 05:13 PM
We're very fond of our name. Just the fact that <A HREF="http://lindows.com/opposition" TITLE="lindows.com">Microsoft doesn't like it</a lindows.com> is enough reason for us to love it.
=)
Kevin
=)
Kevin
Ok.
I read warthawgs review and a few others before I installed Lindows 4.5 . I am not trying to be troll bait here, but I would like some answers or comments from Lindows users/peoples on what I have to say. I am testing Lindows and (soon) Xandros to see if, as a computer shop owner, I can start dropping a linux distro on Joe Sixpacks machine instead of Win98 ( I try to stay away from ME and XP ugh).
All that said here's my real comments.
1) I installed lindows 4.5 and it didn't work with my Nvidia GeForce 2 AGP card. The re-detect logs reported finding the Nvidia card but still it didn't work. All I got was a blank black screen after start-up. No messages no way to know what went wrong, no nothing. What is up with that. This is a very very very very common card.
To fix that problem I pulled the card and had lindows re-detect again with my video plugged into the onboard. That worked and I got my desktop. However IMHO this shouldn't have happened since Lindows makes bones about how easy and compatible it is.
2) Some of the multi-media software that was included in the install has got to be the poorest examples of software available for linux. Especially the MP3 player and the Image Viewer. What were you guys thinking when you chose those programs.
This is a big issue. Why you may ask, when the CNR warehouse is there? Because a new user is going to try to use this software first, and if it doesn't work easily and intuitively they won't bother and I will get the machine back and have to put Win back on. Especially ones who have dial-up.
3) File management was pitiful. The "Konquerer" file manager has to be one of the worst file management tools for people who don't know that much about file structure.
For example: to make a link anywhere you have to type in the url by hand. What joe sixpack is going to know how to type in a url to a file on their computer much less how to find it or understand anything about linking.
Another example: Media file previews take up the entire pane. You cant "link" (the other kind: which is also a point of confusion for a new user)
a preview pane and a list-o-files pane.
Another example: Insert a CD and then close the automatically opened window. Then go to konquerer and try to find the CD drive. Unless you know where to look (And believe me Joe Sixpack doesn't know what the heck<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/mnt is) you will never find it.
In conclusion I have to say I was dis-satisfied and dis-appointed. I expected better. Lindows is marketed as an alternative to Windows and easier than Linux. I don't think that in its present incarnation it is either.
Maybe I am trying to hold lindows to too high of a standard for as young as it is, however, when starting from a base OS like Linux with all the great Linux software out there, the Distro and included software should have been better and more intuitive.
Johnny B.
Whooooaaahhhh MAMA!!!!!!!
P.S. to the guy who wonders why anyone cares about joe sixpack. Joe sixpack is the fastest growing market for computer sales and service out there. Thats why.
I read warthawgs review and a few others before I installed Lindows 4.5 . I am not trying to be troll bait here, but I would like some answers or comments from Lindows users/peoples on what I have to say. I am testing Lindows and (soon) Xandros to see if, as a computer shop owner, I can start dropping a linux distro on Joe Sixpacks machine instead of Win98 ( I try to stay away from ME and XP ugh).
All that said here's my real comments.
1) I installed lindows 4.5 and it didn't work with my Nvidia GeForce 2 AGP card. The re-detect logs reported finding the Nvidia card but still it didn't work. All I got was a blank black screen after start-up. No messages no way to know what went wrong, no nothing. What is up with that. This is a very very very very common card.
To fix that problem I pulled the card and had lindows re-detect again with my video plugged into the onboard. That worked and I got my desktop. However IMHO this shouldn't have happened since Lindows makes bones about how easy and compatible it is.
2) Some of the multi-media software that was included in the install has got to be the poorest examples of software available for linux. Especially the MP3 player and the Image Viewer. What were you guys thinking when you chose those programs.
This is a big issue. Why you may ask, when the CNR warehouse is there? Because a new user is going to try to use this software first, and if it doesn't work easily and intuitively they won't bother and I will get the machine back and have to put Win back on. Especially ones who have dial-up.
3) File management was pitiful. The "Konquerer" file manager has to be one of the worst file management tools for people who don't know that much about file structure.
For example: to make a link anywhere you have to type in the url by hand. What joe sixpack is going to know how to type in a url to a file on their computer much less how to find it or understand anything about linking.
Another example: Media file previews take up the entire pane. You cant "link" (the other kind: which is also a point of confusion for a new user)
a preview pane and a list-o-files pane.
Another example: Insert a CD and then close the automatically opened window. Then go to konquerer and try to find the CD drive. Unless you know where to look (And believe me Joe Sixpack doesn't know what the heck<nobr> <wbr></nobr>/mnt is) you will never find it.
In conclusion I have to say I was dis-satisfied and dis-appointed. I expected better. Lindows is marketed as an alternative to Windows and easier than Linux. I don't think that in its present incarnation it is either.
Maybe I am trying to hold lindows to too high of a standard for as young as it is, however, when starting from a base OS like Linux with all the great Linux software out there, the Distro and included software should have been better and more intuitive.
Johnny B.
Whooooaaahhhh MAMA!!!!!!!
P.S. to the guy who wonders why anyone cares about joe sixpack. Joe sixpack is the fastest growing market for computer sales and service out there. Thats why.
I agree entirely with what you said, When I try to get friends interested in a Linux distro we never get very far. as soon as they see how difficult the file manager or dialup is they say
give me my windows back! I have no problem with more advanced versions for techies but the average joe sixpack forget it!!!
Why doesn't lindows OS offer a CD with all the software options on it? this would be a godsend
to dial up people!!!! there are still millions of people still stuck with dialup!
Steve, N.
give me my windows back! I have no problem with more advanced versions for techies but the average joe sixpack forget it!!!
Why doesn't lindows OS offer a CD with all the software options on it? this would be a godsend
to dial up people!!!! there are still millions of people still stuck with dialup!
Steve, N.
I tried Lindows for about 30 minutes......I couldn't take it for more than that. It is good for people who are "lost" when it comes to Linux. There are many features I do not like but, it is very "pleasing to look at". I would not recommend this to anyone at all, for the Linux newbie, go with KNOPPIX or LIBRANET. They are much better Linux distro than this crap. I'd rather use Microsoft Windows than Lindows. I thought this would have been a great distro but am very disappointed in it. It has one thing in common with Microsoft.........It really sucks also!
That B.S!
They do not disable software. Simply what happens is if you fail to use CNR they disable you from downloading and updating it again after the trial.
If you bought from CNB(Click and Buy),it's yours for life! Any machine,anywhere.
You can install Synaptic or use Apt-Get to still update these things if you have some knowledge.
CNR is based on Apt-Get/Klik.
True most of their CNR software is free from Debian,but their CNB software is not!
They do not disable software. Simply what happens is if you fail to use CNR they disable you from downloading and updating it again after the trial.
If you bought from CNB(Click and Buy),it's yours for life! Any machine,anywhere.
You can install Synaptic or use Apt-Get to still update these things if you have some knowledge.
CNR is based on Apt-Get/Klik.
True most of their CNR software is free from Debian,but their CNB software is not!
Did you know that you can get a free 15-day trial membership in the Click 'n Run warehouse (http://shop.lindows.com/user/mylindows_welcome.p<nobr>h<wbr></nobr> p)? During this time you can download and use any program that doesn't cost extra. These are all programs that are normally free on any other Linux distro. Know what happens if you decide not to keep your membership? They disable the programs you downloaded from your computer. That's right - *they* disable software on *your* computer, software that's normally free for any non-Lindows user.
Lindows is set it up so that Lindows.com can control your computer - how else could they disable anything on your computer after the install? Thanks, but no thanks, I'd rather have Windows XP. At least M$ is just spying on you.
Lindows is set it up so that Lindows.com can control your computer - how else could they disable anything on your computer after the install? Thanks, but no thanks, I'd rather have Windows XP. At least M$ is just spying on you.
Price
Posted by: Anonymous Coward on January 07, 2004 09:35 PM#