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Citizens Against Government Waste vs. Massachusetts OpenDocument decision

By Jay Lyman on October 07, 2005 (8:00:00 AM)

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Citizens Against Government Waste (CAGW) is warning of the interoperability disadvantages and long-term higher costs of open standards and open source software again, this time calling the Massachusetts directive adopting the OpenDocument format as standard for the state "bad procurement policy."

CAGW has swiped at open source software, and Massachusetts' affinity for it, in the past. The group also has a long history of going to bat for Microsoft in its struggles with antitrust suits.

In its latest press release on the matter, the group seemed to confuse document formats with IT architecture and applications, blasting "a plan in Massachusetts to force all state computer networks to move to an open source format" and the state's supposed "mandate that state agencies use only open source and open standard software by January 1, 2007."

When contacted by NewsForge, CAGW president Tom Schatz said the statements, reprinted by several Linux and open source publications in the original form, were "wrong," and the organization's press release was subsequently changed to read: "CAGW today criticized a plan in Massachusetts to force all state agencies to shift all their documents to an 'open' format." Another correction to the release said the Massachusetts policy "would mandate that state agencies use only open formats for the storage of documents by January 1, 2007."

Despite conceding that every man, woman, child, and dog in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts would not actually be forced to use FOSS for their computing, CAGW stood by its contention that the Bay State's move could give businesses and citizens "compatibility problems in exchanging documents with all of the state agencies."

When asked to explain the compatibility problems of the OpenDocument format, Schatz said his organization would like to see more information on the Massachusetts format policy.

"It's only one state," Schatz said. "At the very least, there should be more of a coordinated policy. We don't want a national policy, but we need to really consider the cost and really consider the long-term consequences."

Massachusetts CIO Peter Quinn told NewsForge there have been a number of such criticisms of the state's open document effort, many of which misconstrue the true meaning and impact of the strategy.

"It's been a combination of people trying to do the FUD factor and people sometimes don't get it," Quinn said. "We've said we're going to adopt a format approved by an international standards organization effective January 1, 2007. It's not anybody's technology. It's not procurement. It's a standard. There's nothing about open source or any of the rest of it."

In terms of compatibility problems, Quinn said the state is not asking businesses or citizens to change anything, adding that efforts to accommodate all state users will continue. Quinn stressed the reason for the open format requirement was the ability to continue accessing the state's growing stockpile of stored documents.

"This is about government sovereignty and history and keeping it available to citizens," he said.

CAGW also expressed concern in its press release over the cost of switching to and supporting openness, referring to additional costs caused by converting existing documents and retraining state employees on new software.

Quinn, and other supporters of the Massachusetts plan, have responded by highlighting the costs associated with a Microsoft Office upgrade, and have also indicated Microsoft and other proprietary vendors are welcome to bid on the state's business provided they, too, support the OpenDocument format.

"We are not locking ourselves into any set of technologies," Quinn said. "We're looking at a standard format. There are a number of technologies that can accommodate the format."

Highlighting the lock-in of using proprietary document formats such as Microsoft's, Quinn added his office's research indicates the time and training required for a Microsoft Office 12 upgrade would be the same for the state in terms of cost.

"It's a wash," he said.

CAGW's history as an opponent of open source has prompted a number of parties to connect the dots between the Reaganomics-borne group and Redmond.

Schatz declined to comment on Microsoft support of his organization, indicating the same goes for any source of the nonprofit group's funding. Microsoft has admitted funding CAGW in the past.

Will Rodger, director of public policy for the Open Source And Industry Alliance (OSAIA), said the latest CAGW press releases -- the first with the sweeping open source statements and the revised version criticizing of the interoperability problems and costs of an open document switch -- are only the latest in a pattern of misguided, alarmist, and exaggerated reaction to open source software and open technology.

"It is typical," Rodger said. "At one time, they had a reputation for fairly thoughtful documents. But they've really missed the boat time and time again. It shows they have an ax to grind. There's probably someone paying them to say it."

Rodger, whose industry organization represents open source developers and endorsed the Massachusetts OpenDocument policy, said there are federal and state CIOs watching the state's open format strategy, but they are doing so quietly.

"State CIOs are very much like CIOs in the federal government -- they're not particularly interested in having what they're doing with software become a political football," he said. "They're doing it quietly and under the radar."

Rodger also indicated CAGW might want to hang onto its original press release, as the Massachusetts move may set the stage for even more migration to openness and open source software in government.

"Massachusetts, in this case, is pointing to cases where open format documents make a lot of sense," he said. "Open formats generally do make a lot of sense for people who have to hang onto stuff for a long time.

"I don't know where the next skirmish will be, but we get the feeling the whole movement to openness and open source is really picking up," Rodger added. "This could be the big, first shot across the bow in the move to openness in all government."

Quinn said the interest in the Massachusetts document strategy goes beyond the US, with watchers in Europe, Australia, Japan, and elsewhere.

"We've got a really, really serious problem," he said. "Not a lot of people are taking a stand like us, but the format's the first part of it," Quinn said. "They're all looking at the whole issue of formats and their proprietary nature and where we go from here. It's not a technology issue. It's about standards -- open standards."

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on Citizens Against Government Waste vs. Massachusetts OpenDocument decision

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People's Department of Software

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on October 07, 2005 09:19 PM
When a government mandates a certain type of software for no other reason than to satisfy the political intrests of a few it is a recipie for chaos. And please don't mention costs when talking about anything in 'Taxachusetts'. This is driven by zelotry and nothing more.

#

Re:People's Department of Software

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on October 07, 2005 09:29 PM
Don't talk crap. They aren't mandating a choice of software they are mandating the use of an open document specification.
Anyone (including Microsoft) can write software that supports the standard.

#

Re:People's Department of Software

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on October 07, 2005 09:43 PM
Massachussetts has decided on an International Document Format Standard, created by the OASIS Group.

Even Microsoft Corp. is aprt of the OASIS Group.

So, if the biggest document-generating vendor (Microsoft), plus its competition plus OpenSource companies are part of OASIS, and all of them have agreen on the Open Document Format, well, I say that everybody should be happy.

International Standards are waaaaaay different from "political interests of a few"

Maybe you don't remember, but about 10 years ago, several companies were trying to push their own propietary networking protocols

In the end, open standards networking protocols made Internet and open conenctivity among ALL hardware vendors a reality.

The selection of Open Standards ALWAYS benefits the majority.

Closed approach (IPX, TokenRing,<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.doc,<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...) ONLY benefits the creators of such closed protocols/formats.

Regards

#

Re:People's Department of Software

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on October 07, 2005 10:24 PM
Yes, WHEN or IF that happened it would be awful. But Massachusetts is only requiring usage of a document format, which Microsoft is perfectly free to add to its list of supported file formats. Microsoft have refused. It shouldn't be hard for them, since Microsoft is an OASIS member. This has absolutely nothing to do with the political interests of a few. Try to open up and print some of your old (say five or six years, even less sometimes) MS Word docs with the current Word. They aren't even compatible with themselves for Pete's sake. Many of the official documents, in real estate, for example, must be readable in fifty, one hundred, three hundred years. It is absolutely impractical to depend on ONE company's interests to meet that standard. So drop the dime store knee jerk pseudo-libertarianism for a second and think it through.

#

Are you deliberately obtuse?

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on October 07, 2005 11:15 PM
"When a government mandates a certain type of software for no other reason than to satisfy the political interests of a few it is a recipe for chaos..."

Thankfully, Massachusetts is moving away from this (forcing people to use Microsoft Office) and into a methodology of open standards. You seem to have mixed up document formats with applications that create those formats, and you have accused the users of open formats of the misbehavior that is in fact being carried out by Microsoft. I assume your employer encourages this kind of FUD...

"And please don't mention costs when talking about anything in 'Taxachusetts'."

What is the purpose of this statement? Massachusetts taxes didn't ever seem that high to me, particularly when considering the services provided in exchange. Have you lived there? Do you have any concrete examples to back up your empty statement? Are you as dumb as you sound, or just pretending?

#

No, he's probably laying down some astroturf

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on October 08, 2005 04:42 AM
I think you are obtuse to assume the post you're replying to is sincere. It might be just a troll (in which case you fed him), but probably it's astroturf, i.e. a Microsoft employee trying to create a false impression about what the "grass roots" of the community think.

#

Re: Silence, troll

Posted by: Bob Halloran on October 07, 2005 11:39 PM
They aren't mandating particular software, they're mandating a vendor-neutral *format*. This allows them to select among multiple software providers, who can choose to support the format or not if they want the state's business. They want out of the vendor-specific formats; they gave the example of having Wordstar files laying around from the 80's they can't read anymore. It's political only in that it's a government entity doing it, and that MS' paid shills (that's YOU, binky) are lobbying against it 'cause they don't want to lose the MS-Office lock-in. They also said they have to retrain regardless of the upgrade path, and not having to upgrade thousands of PCs to support Office 12 will save them millions; $5M vs. $50M . Sounds like a prudent use of the public funds to me.

#

Re:People's Department of Software

Posted by: hanelyp on October 07, 2005 11:52 PM
Given the state of Massachusetts' political allignment, I can't be sure anti big business sentiment didn't play a motivating role. But looking at the proposal, and the utter nonsense of the arguments against, I have to agree with the move to opendocument. Open standards are a good thing, and the move to them should produce the stated objectives of interoperability, document longevity, and cost savings.

#

The few: MS, the Lock-in: Office

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on October 08, 2005 12:32 AM

You argue our point for us. Simply read what
you said with the right perspective:

"mandates a certain type of software" (MS Office)
"for no other reasong than to satisfy the
political interests of a few" (Microsoft)

Of course Microsoft would like to imply that there
was no "mandate" for MA agencies to use MS Office
but there was a de facto one before MA finally
looked at their situation in the long term and
decided that maintaining everything in paper was
not feasible and maintaining data digitally is
not practical with encumbered and ever-changing
formats that are controlled by "a few."

This is not a mandate about "a certain type of
software." It's a mandate to guarantee access
by the people of MA to their own data, now and
two centuries hence.

JimD

#

Well

Posted by: Joseph Cooper on October 08, 2005 01:33 AM
That MIGHT actually have been his point, he's kinda vague and I'm not really sure who he's arguing for.

#

Re:People's Department of Software

Posted by: David Turnbulll on October 08, 2005 12:46 AM
Software that supports or will soon support OpenDocument format.

Star office,
Open Office,
Abi word,
Word Perfect,
Anyone else who wants too.

software that fully supports MS XML.

MSoffice 2003
MS office 12
And only people who can ust pay MSFT, and not use look at F/OSS

#

Re:People's Department of Software

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on October 08, 2005 03:48 AM
You forgot KOffice from your list.

#

They are NOT mandating software!

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on October 08, 2005 02:16 AM
In case it wasn't said enough above, the parent post is just plain wrong. Massachusetts decided on using a STANDARD DOCUMENT FORMAT. Since it is based on standards, anybody can write software to read and write the documents.

#

MA is mandating a FILE FORMAT, not a software type

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on October 08, 2005 07:09 AM
The Microsoft spinmeisters just never get tired of trying to spread their disinformation.

I have more respect for a streethooker than for these MS spinmeisters.

#

Re:Peoples Dept. of Software

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on October 12, 2005 05:08 PM
My origional post (written from my Kanotix live CD machine) makes the point that all this is just feel good politics like those propane cars that certain state workers are forced to drive arround in. It's all kind of silly.
Chas - long time linux user

#

Re:Peoples Dept. of Software

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on October 15, 2005 10:51 AM
"It's all kind of silly."

To an extent, yes. Yet using an open, documented standard to store digital documents actually is a smart thing to do as it eliminates dependency upon any exterior source for access to the information, (something government and business should seriously consider) but you already know this...

#

Citizens Against Government Waste

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on October 07, 2005 09:30 PM
Sounds like "Citizens Against Government Waste" is populated by idiots.

#

Re:Citizens Against Government Waste

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on October 07, 2005 10:14 PM
They're right in one way, though: OpenDocument format is not supported by MS Office. Therefore, if anyone wants to exchange documents with the state of Massachusetts, they will have to use a piece of (probably open source) software that supports the OpenDocument format. The CAGW people see this as a bad thing. Most people here at Newsforge probably think that this is a good thing.

I'm just waiting for M$ to try boycotting Massachusetts.

#

Re:Citizens Against Government Waste

Posted by: Joseph Cooper on October 08, 2005 01:46 AM
Yeah, but converting documents can be fairly error-prone and might actually cause more problems.

What we ought to develop is a tool that runs in Windows, and is easy to install like any other Windows program, that is brain-dead simply to convert a document.

In fact, does MS Office even support plugins? I know that you can write plugins for a lot of there software, if MS Office can take plugins than someone might be able to privately write OpenDocument format support for MS Office.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>...I'm not really sure though, I haven't used MS Office in several years. Anyone else more familiar with it?

#

Re:Citizens Against Government Waste

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on October 08, 2005 03:27 AM
It is a public standard format. Anybody can fully implement it in it own office suite. It is 100% platform independent, and nobody can change it without aproval of the standardization group.
While MsOffice format is proprietary, only partialy documented, may contain components OS dependent, you can infrige intelectual properties and MS can change it without notice if this will bring more money to them.
The MS choice is is the only right option.
MS if want to sell his obsolete software, have to become compatible.

#

Re:Citizens Against Government Waste

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on October 08, 2005 03:30 AM
The MS choice is is the only right option.
Here MS mean Massachusset

MS if want to sell his obsolete software, have to become compatible.
Here MS mean Microsoft<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-)

#

Re:Citizens Against Government Waste

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on October 08, 2005 04:19 AM
What do you expect? Like they said, this is a Reagan era organization (read - bunch of Republicans). They can't criticize the 100s of Billions that the now Republican controlled federal government is spending on pure pork without badmouthing fellow Republicans so they spend their time making a lot of noise about non-issues like this. Makes it an extra tasty target since the Mass. state government is controlled by Democrats. Ignore these people. They are politically motivated, hypocritical, whores.

#

Unfortunately, no

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on October 08, 2005 04:38 AM
Sounds like "Citizens Against Government Waste" is populated by idiots.

On the contrary, it's got some smart people. Your mistake is your assumption that it cares about the public good.


Presumably there is some flow of $$ from Microsoft to CAGW, or to some of its influential members. Some day, you will realize that there are people who are motivated by $, not by altruism.


The biggest make the Free Software community makes is underestimating the opposition. Our opponents may be extremely selfish, self-centered, they may be liars, even criminals; but they are not, repeat NOT, stupid.

#

Re:Unfortunately, no

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on October 09, 2005 03:36 PM
As such behaviour is bond to get you against the wall when the revolution comes, I doubt that it is a very smart move to be so openly greedy. I'd assign these people a number somewhere around the 10,000 mark<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;-)

#

CAGW Microsoft Whore...

Posted by: CD Baric on October 07, 2005 10:34 PM
Citizens Against Government Waste have grown accustomed to the Microsoft teat and are now responding to the needs of their masters.

CAGW have ZERO credibilty on any issue now that they have sold out to the most corrupting organization in American history.

They can't even get straight what they hate about the Mass descision - they just know what their handlers tell them, that it's bad Bad BAD! For Microsoft's monopoly, that is.

Expect a public backlash against the supposed citizens group turned paid Microsoft lobbyist - nobody like's a sellout, with the possible exception of Microsoft - The King of Corruption.

Bar

#

so... 570 billion is not a waste big enough??

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on October 08, 2005 12:17 AM
I searched on the CAGW site and couldn't find a word about the 570 billion of taxpayer money that is being wasted in Iraq...

<a href="http://www.cbc.ca/cp/world/051006/w100670.html" title="www.cbc.ca">http://www.cbc.ca/cp/world/051006/w100670.html</a www.cbc.ca>

Did they missed it? Don't they suppose that they are a watchdog of government misuse of resources?

I guess their patrons (MS) don't care about that.

Duh!

#

Re:so... 570 billion is not a waste big enough??

Posted by: Joseph Cooper on October 08, 2005 01:40 AM
Kinda regardless of wether one supports the war in Iraq or not, this is such an insignificant issue in the grand scheme of things that it just seems odd that they'd go for it unless they were only operating in Massachusetts unless they had some particular special interest in what software people are using, which kinda seems suspect to me.

#

Re:so... 570 billion is not a waste big enough??

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on October 09, 2005 01:46 PM
They're worried this "open" disease might spread if people start finding the results favorable. They're trying to fight this specific battle in hopes of preventing the war. I hope they fail.

#

Citizens against government waste

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on October 08, 2005 12:18 AM
Is essentially a pro-industry shill.

They are a well funded, primarily neo-conservative
outfit. That's pretty much all there is to it.

There isn't anything about Mass's decision that

  would rule out Microsoft products. All that
needs to happen, is for Microsoft's products to
fully support (embrace, not extend) OpenDocument.

  That's all. Simple. They can compete and compete well, they
just have to do it on a level playing field.

CAGW doesn't like fair games with public oversight
AT ALL.

They resist it at every turn.

#

CA DMV Uses Open Source

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on October 08, 2005 12:27 AM
<a href="http://www.socallinuxexpo.org/speakers.php" title="socallinuxexpo.org">Bernard Soriano</a socallinuxexpo.org>, CIO for the California State Department of Motor Vehicles, will be speaking at <a href="http://www.socallinuxexpo.org/" title="socallinuxexpo.org">SCALE 4x</a socallinuxexpo.org>. He will discuss the use of Linux and OSS software at the CA DMV, as well as their reasons for chosing it over proprietary solutions.

#

Re:CA DMV Uses Open Source

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on October 08, 2005 06:56 AM
Oh is this the same CA DMV that Oracle and Tandem
toke all the captive drivers in CA for the tune of 48m
about 4 years ago? When it comes to goverment
waste CA DMV has a license to screw it's customers
hands down. Hey I have an idea lets do it again
in the name of open source.

#

The Dead Support Microsoft!

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on October 08, 2005 12:56 AM
Citizens Against Government Waste has sent out a press release complaining about the plan in Massachusetts to standardize on open document formats. [...] For those who don't remember, these are the folks who have been accused of recruiting dead people to the anti-Linux cause in the past.

#

Re:The Dead Support Microsoft!

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on October 08, 2005 12:58 AM
"Citizens Against Government Waste, on the other hand, distributed identical letters to citizens. Those varied only by the signature attached. The two letters from beyond the grave came from the Citizens Against Government Waste crop. According to the Times, family members crossed out the names and signed for them. Another letter was sent from "Tuscon, Utah," a city that doesn't even exist.

Regulators evidently became suspicious when they noticed that some of the same phrases appeared in numerous letters, and that some return addresses were invalid."

<a href="http://www.internetnews.com/bus-news/article.php/871631" title="internetnews.com">http://www.internetnews.com/bus-news/article.php/<nobr>8<wbr></nobr> 71631</a internetnews.com>

#

More coordinated FUD

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on October 08, 2005 01:03 AM
Massachusetts <a href="http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,170724,00.html" title="foxnews.com">Should Close Down OpenDocument</a foxnews.com>

#

Re:More coordinated FUD

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on October 10, 2005 05:26 PM
Wayyyy down at the bottom:

"Jim Prendergast is executive director of Americans for Technology Leadership, a coalition of technology professionals, companies and organizations that supports limited government regulation of technology. An earlier version of this column failed to disclose that Microsoft Corporation is a founding member of ATL. Other founding members include Staples, Inc., CompUSA and Citizens Against Government Waste."

#

What Mass did was step into the future

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on October 08, 2005 01:14 AM
NASA has mountains of data that's useless because they no longer have machines that can translate the data into readable information.

A couple of years ago, I was helping my mom clean out the basement after decades of clutter. We found a stack of reel-to-reel albums and my mom got extremely excited and wanted to play them. We cleaned the whole basement and it turned out she didn't have a reel-to-reel player. It wasn't _that_ hard to find one, but it does illustrate what I'm talking about.

Data formats that are well documented, easily reproducable, and used are a technological step forward.

Think of it like this. What if you lived in a country where at whim, the government changed the alphabet and didn't allow for accurate compatibility with the old alphabets? At the very least, it will cause data loose, which is absolutely unacceptable (especially where the gov is concerned). Worse case senerios would include whole swaths of information becoming useless between alphabet transitions, effectively whiping out what was known history.

But under MS's argument, that's exactly what they want Mass and the whole world to swallow.

#

Re:What Mass did was step into the future

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on October 08, 2005 03:46 AM
Or if the state decided to adopt a 'custom' screw threading, only made by a single manufacturer..

#

Conservatives

Posted by: Joseph Cooper on October 08, 2005 02:10 AM
I consider myself an economic conservative, and I fully support this. (Well mostly, I have a worries about it.)

I think most conservatives (and most anybody) aren't actually thinking about what that means, they just kinda have a knee-jerk reaction because Microsoft is the big company, and intuition would tell you that they're dropping the big company because of some sort of anti-corporate hippy thing.

Really they don't even need to feel like that, OpenOffice.org is (I think) mostly developed by Sun, isn't it?

Really, if you think about it, an economic conservative has every reason to go with this... Almost.

I'd kinda like to see some actual numbers, how much it would cost to do this as opposed to how much it'd cost to upgrade to Office 12.

Let's not forget that OpenOffice.org runs slow as molassis, I have a 700mhz system at work which barely manages it. That's pretty obesce in my opinion. If you're not running Windows (Spyware kills it's performance after a while) there's no reason a computer as old as 400mhz shouldn't run your office software. Computers don't magically become slower and Office software doesn't have many useful features that it didn't have when we all used Pentiums. (I mean, the first Pentiums.)

I'd considered that anytime someone mentions Office 12 system requirements, that OpenOffice.org runs like ass.

There's also Abiword, which I ran on a 75mhz Pentium and it ran fantastic.

Let's also not forget, they do have a point about interoperating with other organizations... Sorta, but then again, most people use PDF to send stuff around anyway.

I should note that OpenOffice.org lets people save straight to PDF (or even flash<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:O !!) and has had that feature for a while. I love it!

#

Re:Conservatives

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on October 08, 2005 02:36 AM
I have 1.1.4 running on a celeron 333 with 448megs and it runs just as fast as OfficeXP on the same machine. It makes me wonder what you're bottleneck is.

And if IIRC, I think Abiword could be used so long as it was<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.ODF compliant, which I think it is. But isn't that kind of the point about<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.ODF, that it's format is open to use by anyone?

#

Re:Conservatives

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on October 08, 2005 03:01 AM

``Let's not forget that OpenOffice.org runs slow as molassis, I have a 700mhz system at work which barely manages it.''

What else are you running on your system while you have OO running? I'm currently running the OO V1.1 word processor on a PIII/550 and it is running acceptably fast for me. Maybe you're using it on Windows. If so, there's your problem.

#

Re:Conservatives

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on October 09, 2005 05:59 AM
Hahahaha! I couldn't agree more. One of my boxes runs FreeBSD 5.x with OpenOffice.org 1.1.x, KDE 3.x, and Mozilla SeaMonkey. The hardware is an AMD K6-2 450MHz box with 512MB DRAM and a 40GB hard disk. Everything, including OO.o, runs acceptably fast for me, and I'm used to my 1GB-DRAM-equipped P4 2.8GHz box at work (runs SuSE Linux 9.3).

#

Re:Conservatives

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on October 08, 2005 03:24 AM
Then you'll be happy to know abiword is looking to move to OpenDocument as well.

Plus we might yet see a lightweight web based OpenOffice from Sun and Google.

Office 12 will not likely run very well on machines that presently have trouble with OpenOffice, mostly due to requiring Operating Systems that will not run well on those machines.

#

You have what?

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on October 08, 2005 04:47 AM
I have a 700mhz system at work

You work for a museum and it's one of the exhibits, right?

#

Re:You have what?

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on October 08, 2005 07:25 AM
I have a 700MHz and a 900 MHz at home. I don't run a museum.

My machines run MS Office XP, Wordperfect 8, and Open Office.org just fine, even with other things running in the background. Once an Office programs starts up, it really spends most of its time waiting for keystrokes from the user.

Of course, my son would like to upgrade so he could play the latest games, but he'd have to come up with the money for that himself. I just don't find any compelling need for more speed. More memory and bigger hard drives, those come in handy.

#

I called cagw.org

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on October 08, 2005 04:53 AM
Tom Finnigan picked up the phone on the first ring. I explained I was a reader from California and asked if he was aware that Corel had allready announced native support for Open Doc format in its next release. He said he was aware of that. I also asked if he was aware that Adobe's pdf format was also approved for use as despite it being from a binary propriatary company the output was fully documented and publicly released. He said yes he was aware of it, I then asked if he intended to update his article to reflect there is no lockout of propriatary software. He said no and he had no intention of debating it.

#

who's that behind the curtain?

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on October 08, 2005 05:51 AM
If there are interoperability disadvantages they will be caused or otherwise introduced by Microsoft themselves. It will be a self fullfilling prophecy.

Of course they are already at a disadvantage as they refuse to participate.

#

Re:who's that behind the curtain?

Posted by: John Vandenberg on October 08, 2005 11:27 AM
And this problem would go away with an import/export filter, and a user pref. to select the default file format. But Microsoft cant bear the taste of humble pie.

If Microsoft would spend their time and effort on building useful features rather than market positioning, our addiction to their Office solutions would be harder to break.

Pricing and licensing would still be an issue, but those are tertiary concerns in the commercial world. However a vendor that cant meet the tendered requirements is dead in the water.

#

Idiot.

Posted by: maxhrk on October 08, 2005 07:19 AM
i have three words for those Citizens Against Government Waste (CAGW).

they are idiot. IT is about Open Standard, not open source. But i dont know if that particular state going to move to open source should Microsoft refuse to support it once again.

i may be mistake anyway.

#

There's been a typo...

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on October 09, 2005 03:50 AM
Apparently there was some confusion over the parties involved. This concern was not raised by CAGW but rather by CWKMA - "Citizens Who Kiss Microsoft's Ass"

#

mass people

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on October 09, 2005 02:31 PM
Some of the Mass readers should take the time and write to the newspapers.

We've heard several microsoft-funded stories/press releases
about this, but the only non-propaganda stories are on
tech sites like this one. The media needs to get a balanced
view out to the public.

Citizens For Government Waste should be their name...

A couple years ago somebody tried to give me an article
they had written using an early 1990s version of Word.
They were unable to open it recent/current versions!

Do we really want our government documents to be unreadable
in 10 years, or at Microsoft's whim.

#

Letters from dead people make their way to our AG

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on October 10, 2005 06:56 AM
According to InternetNew.com in the article Microsoft Supported by Dead People


<a href="http://www.internetnews.com/bus-news/article.php/871631" title="internetnews.com">http://www.internetnews.com/bus-news/article.php/<nobr>8<wbr></nobr> 71631</a internetnews.com>


letters purportedly written by at least two dead people have made their way onto the desk of Utah Attorney General Mark Shurtleff.


The letters asked Shurtleff to go easy on the company.

According to the article, the letters, along with those of 400 Utah citizens, are part of a nationwide "grassroots" campaign orchestrated by pro-Microsoft groups Americans for Technology Leadership (ATL) and Citizens Against Government Waste. The groups receive some funding from Microsoft but won't disclose how much.


The Times reported that the ATL calls citizens and says it is conducting a poll about the Microsoft case. Respondents who say they support the company are then sent individually written letters on personalized stationary, with varying wording, color and typeface, along with hand stamped, pre-addressed envelopes. The envelopes are addressed to their state attorney generals, President Bush and their Congressional representatives.


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Archiving...

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on October 10, 2005 02:40 PM
except for the fact this format will be mainly used for archiving... or am I missing something?

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How hard is it really to have opendocument in word

Posted by: Anonymous Coward on October 11, 2005 08:19 PM
MS Office adds a load of RTF-to-other format wpc,<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.cnv and dll files in \Program files\Common Files\Microsoft Shared\TextConv. They are not well documented, but there is some stuff in old MSDN wordpad samples & docs, and it's not rocket science.

Basically RTF stream in, output format out and vice versa. I wonder if there's any BSD rtf to opendocument routines out there, suitable for use with Office? I haven't checked whether Word will automatically add any new converters entered in the registry.

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