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Feature: Games
'Phantom' game console is really a copyright protection device
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July 10, 2003 (8:00:00 AM)
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- By <SLASH HREF="http://roblimo.com" ID="d6ce25c2cc3b127d06ee7072e4e96563" TITLE="" TYPE="LINK">Robin 'Roblimo' Miller</SLASH> -
Over the last few months computer and gaming-related publications) have gotten stacks of press releases from a company called <SLASH HREF="http://www.infiniumlabs.com/" ID="b80b2879914c8aab9209f6a658a6eea0" TITLE="" TYPE="LINK">Infinium Labs</SLASH> touting its upcoming <SLASH HREF="http://www.smalla.net/infofeed/2003/01/22/new_game_console_probably_phantom_by_inf.shtml" ID="58a13638981b8de18374869819ca6bb1" TITLE="" TYPE="LINK">Phantom game console</SLASH>. Some game industry insiders have derided the Phantom as vaporware, while others have laughed it off as "just another set-top box." The truth is, it is neither vaporware nor purely a set-top box, but part of an online PC game retailing system designed to protect game publishers' intellectual property while increasing profits for broadband ISPs. The promise for consumers is the availability of more games, for less money, than ever before. Will Infinium be able to pull this off? At least $25 million worth of venture capital is betting "yes."
Over the last few months computer and gaming-related publications) have gotten stacks of press releases from a company called <SLASH HREF="http://www.infiniumlabs.com/" ID="b80b2879914c8aab9209f6a658a6eea0" TITLE="" TYPE="LINK">Infinium Labs</SLASH> touting its upcoming <SLASH HREF="http://www.smalla.net/infofeed/2003/01/22/new_game_console_probably_phantom_by_inf.shtml" ID="58a13638981b8de18374869819ca6bb1" TITLE="" TYPE="LINK">Phantom game console</SLASH>. Some game industry insiders have derided the Phantom as vaporware, while others have laughed it off as "just another set-top box." The truth is, it is neither vaporware nor purely a set-top box, but part of an online PC game retailing system designed to protect game publishers' intellectual property while increasing profits for broadband ISPs. The promise for consumers is the availability of more games, for less money, than ever before. Will Infinium be able to pull this off? At least $25 million worth of venture capital is betting "yes."
Let's start by saying the console is real, not vaporware. I've seen a working prototype in action. Inside the spacy-looking case it's just a PC running Windows XP that has no CD or floppy drive, and uses a proprietary encryption scheme for data stored on its hard drive.
The specs for the final, finished version that will be shipped to end users are still in flux, but at the $400 price point mentioned by Infinium CEO Tim Roberts while he and I were looking at a mockup hidden away at respected (but low-profile) Robrady Design in Sarasota, Florida, it ought to be no big deal to deliver a 2GHz Mini-ATX PC with a wireless keyboard, mouse, and cool-looking game controller.
In fact, Roberts said during our chat, one of the reasons now is a better time than the height of the dot-boom to launch Infinium Labs is that "component prices have dropped" enough to make this computer feasible at $400 per unit, a`price even lower than the $600 to $700 he spoke of as recently as February.
Really, the only thing that differentiates this 'game console' from a standard, Windows-running PC is that it has no way to get data on or off of it except through a dedicated connection to Infinium Labs' own servers via your broadband ISP, plus the fact that if you try to open it up or modify it or grab data from the hard drive, bad things will happen, starting with violation of the terms under which you will lease or purchase the Phantom.
The console is only the tip of the netberg
Roberts' big previous venture was SAVVIS, a company he helped start that provided (and still provides) secure VPNs and other networking services. The company's motto, right below its name in the top left corner of its Web site's main page, is, "The Network That Powers Wall Street(tm)."
Roberts "retired" (at age 28) after SAVVIS's IPO in 2000. His one major post-SAVVIS business, an application hosting service called Intira, was acquired in October, 2001 by a company called divine (that filed for a Chapter 11 reorganization in February, 2003.)
Note that both of these companies delivered information and services via the Internet. Now think of Tim Roberts not only as a dot-com IPO guy but also as an ardent gamer and as a family man with small children who wants to be able to let his kids play lots and lots of computer games without worrying about whether they're getting exposed to excess gore or other adult-level themes, and think about the fact that, Roberts says, the average computer or consumer electronics store only carries around 200 games even though there are tens of thousands of titles available. And even though the majority of gamers may not be obsessed, anti-social pimple-facers who love shoot-em-ups above all else, most of those top 200 games are likely to be aimed at the hard-cores, not at small children or Roberts or his wife or other families like theirs.
Now imagine Roberts the family man and Roberts the expert on secure Internet information delivery occupying one single body, postulate a growing number of U.S. households with broadband Internet connections, with broadband ISPs hungry to deliver more services so they can grab more customers, especially services for which they can charge a premium over and above their basic monthly access fees -- services like downloadable games -- and suddenly you are looking at a potentially huge business opportunity.
Except for piracy.
Sure, the publishers of the tens of thousands of games that aren't sold at stores like Circuit City, Fry's or Best Buy would like to find a nice online way to distribute their products that wouldn't cost as much as traditional retail channels, but they worry about all the game-copiers and software sharers out there who would post any kind of 'unlock' keys needed to play downloadable versions of their offerings on the Internet, in effect making those games free to use for anyone who doesn't respect game developers' intellectual property rights.
So if you're Tim Roberts, you offer all those game publishers the same 99.999% security you offered Wall Streeters shipping critical financial data across the Net, and you claim you've gotten huge mega-interest from at least 500 game publishers, even though (for confidentiality reasons) Roberts says he can't tell us quite yet who any of these game publishers are, except to hint with one word: "Unreal!"
All game keys are held on Infinium Labs' servers, so even if the kind of people who do Xbox mods do their thing on a Phantom, they won't be able to play games for free, unless they're some of the many "play before you buy" trials Roberts plans to offer or some of the games that might be included with the $9.95 per month (or whatever; this is still being worked out) extra fee you pay your broadband ISP for access to Infinium Labs' game library, which Roberts confidently predicts will be one of the largest in the world, not only because the Phantom will play any game that will run on Windows XP, but because Infinium plans to offer developers help in porting games originally written for dedicated consoles to the Phantom (really Windows XP) platform.
There's no reason Infinium Labs shouldn't get hundreds or thousands of game developers to sign up; if the developers offer their games through this service and no one buys, they lose nothing, while, Roberts says, each paid download will net them more than they would get from a traditional in-a-box retail sale, assuming they could get their products on store shelves in the first place. In fact, there is no reason for Infinium Labs not to offer games from new, unknown developers much the way MP3.com and other online music services offer less-known musicians a distribution channel they didn't have before it became possible to download music over the Internet.
Except, of course, Infinium Labs hopes to eliminate the online file sharing that has spooked the music industry so badly.
I asked Roberts, more than once, how long he really expected it to take, in days or weeks, for his system's security to be broken. He responded by saying that Bunny Huang and other well-known security gurus are advising Infinium Labs, and pointed to his own experience providing secure Internet-based communications to the financial services industry.
And besides, Roberts believes, even if a few fringe people manage to grab a few games somehow, they aren't going to affect the vast majority of users, who will happily pay for their subscriptions.
The income stream(s)
The obvious, first one is subscriptions. Roberts told me it will probably take somewhere between 750,000 and one million subscribers to start turning a profit, based on $9.95 per month. Then there's advertising. Infinium Labs has a study in hand that claims ads connected to interactive game-type media are seven times as effective as ads displayed through passive media like TV and most Web sites. Then there's percentage fees (sales commissions, really) for "premium" games customers purchase through the system.
Roberts expects broadband ISPs to jump on this opportunity, especially since competition in this area is heating up and because his figures show that 50% of U.S. Internet-using households will have broadband connections by 2005. He also claims that the base cost of a broadband connection, to the supplier, is going to drop to about $7 per month, which is why this business area is so fiercely competitive.
Imagine Infinium Labs promotional brochures inserted in millions of cable and DSL Internet service bills. Roberts does. Surely enough subscribers will be willing to pony up another few bucks every month for a wide selection of games to float this venture, right? Even when the pie is split with game developers and broadband ISPs, there ought to be plenty for Infinium Labs, right?
And the customers Roberts is pursuing aren't teen-boy gamers with (he says) average incomes under $25,000 per year, but prosperous families that take in $50,000 or more and will happily pay $400 for a dedicated game machine (with some of that cost likely buried in the monthly subscription fee the same way cellular phone companies subsidize handset purchases)if only to keep game-playing kiddies away from mom and dad's computers -- and allow parents to give each kid his or her own login that only allows age-appropriate games.
As another sales kicker, how about chat and other interactive features that allow both child and adult users to communicate with other gamers? What about online player vs. player games, either as part of the basic subscription fee or as a premium service?
Once the basic mechanism is in place and has proven itself, why not add these other spiffs? You already have a game-on-demand online delivery system that competes with physical game CD/DVD sales, right? Sure, there are a few tiny problems here, like the fact that even though Roberts didn't want to talk about specific prices for specific games, they had better be a whole lot cheaper than the store-bought physical versions if only because you can't play them if you suddenly cancel your Phantom subscription or, although this was not made clear, perhaps even if you switch from a Phantom-partner broadband supplier to one that hasn't signed up with them.
As one industry observer pointed out when he first heard the Infinium Labs story, "You buy the console. You buy the games. Then you pay to play the games you bought on the console you bought. It's sort of like buying an arcade game but still having to put quarters in. And ads!"
But is this really any worse than paying for cable TV, finding that all the basic channels are full of ads, then paying extra for premium channels, and paying yet more for pay-per-view "events?" Lots of households do this without thinking about it. Why shouldn't a company like Infinium Labs extend the same business model to games and profit heavily by doing so? After all, the cost of server space and delivering all this data (securely) over a high-speed network has come down radically over the past few years, so the basic overhead of getting the system going can't possibly be as high as a cable TV channel startup, and we seem to see at least a few of those every year.
Getting it all up and running
The day I met with Roberts, he was uncharacteristically dressed in a suit and tie, nervously getting ready to meet with some of his investors. He's claiming $25 million in first-round funding so far, with more to come. He's renting high-end office space in Sarasota, Florida, and rapidly hiring both local staff and telecommuters.
Although the infamous phrase, "burn rate," was not uttered, it hung in the air over the conference table we borrowed at Robrady Design. Roberts' enthusiasm and drive was as strong as any I saw in Silicon Valley in 1998 or 1999, except that the costs of building an online business in Florida are a fraction of what it would cost to build the same business in Palo Alto.
The "race against time" factor is still there, though. Will Infinium Labs be able to attract enough ISP partners, enough game developers, enough subscribers, and enough advertisers to achieve a positive cash flow before the investment money runs out? That is always the big question in any kind of online service business.
Then there's the security question. Is that dedicated PC with so many features disabled really necessary? Couldn't a nearly-as-good level of anti-copying protection be achieved at much lower cost purely through software? Won't Palladium essentially make the Phantom unit itself obsolete? And couldn't the same privacy and control-over-your-own-equipment concerns that cause many consumers to balk at the idea of "Trusted Computing" that assumes consumers are not to be trusted become a significant sales barrier?
How about competition? Couldn't someone else come up with a slightly less secure but much less expensive online game delivery system that could be sold directly to consumers instead of through ISPs?
And thinking of competition, couldn't another company that is less security-obsessed, but charges lower commissions to game publishers, take away market share in a hurry, assuming game publishers are willing to accept (possibly) a small amount of file sharing in return for a higher share of net user fees -- and a potentially much larger market if this theoretical competitor didn't require customers to purchase (or possibly lease) a specialized, locked-down computer that costs as much as a "real" one that can also be used for kid homework, adult office work, and other non-game tasks?
The beta program may help Infinium Labs learn
The next stage in the rollout is a beta test that's supposed to start this fall with between 100 and 300 testers. "We want beta testers who are hackers and crackers who will try everything to get around our security," Roberts said when we talked.
Don't bother to apply. The company has over 17,000 applicants already, in large part due to these Slashdot mentions.
Perhaps in the course of the beta program the Phantom console itself will prove to be unnecessary. Or perhaps its cool looks will awe everyone who sees it in person so much that it'll become the next living room "must have" for prosperous suburban families.
For whatever it's worth, and no matter how the beta test and subsequent full-scale product rollout goes, Infinium Labs is pioneering a new way to hook game-eager customers up with sales-eager game developers. Whether this company succeeds or fails, the idea of online retail game delivery is sure to stay with us, and -- in one form or another -- will almost certainly replace the idea of PC and console games being physical things that are only sold in plastic packages through traditional retail channels.
Comments
on 'Phantom' game console is really a copyright protection deviceNote: Comments are owned by the poster. We are not responsible for their content.
Besides that, what happens if they go out of business? Can you still play the games you purchased? If not, I guess you didn't really purchase them. If so, why constantly pay your monthy service charge? Pay for a month, buy your games, unsubscribe. If you have to pay to play, and you have to have an active account, what happens when you have ISP problems? Can't play your console?
This has "trouble" and "bad business plan" written all over it.
This has "trouble" and "bad business plan" written all over it.
My first question with this system is, How do they expect to keep thier 'network' set for thier console only? Without that $400 initial cost, this wouldn't be a bad system.
I network my computers using a broadband connection. If I were to add a Phantom to my network, what's preventing me from hacking that sucker and ripping everything out of it? I know people who can hack the MMORPG servers and re-activate thier banned accounts. So honestly, what does this company expect to do against the onslaught of human inginuity?
And then once I've taken the information off, what's to keep me from handing it to a buddy of mine who writes software, and make it into a quick install file. So there you have it, being distributed again over a p2p network.
Overall, the SERVICE would be nice, but the platform needs to be eliminated. Any time you offer a connection to a server, someone will figure out how to take backdoors into them.
Take Win XP for example, even with the time and effort made to make it the most secure OS MS has ever made henseforth, we still had someone who found a backdoor, and thus a worm created to shut down you're PC.
I'm saying that they'd better make this foolproof to begin with, because starting out, they have no margin for error. If ANYONE cracks this, they're done in.
I network my computers using a broadband connection. If I were to add a Phantom to my network, what's preventing me from hacking that sucker and ripping everything out of it? I know people who can hack the MMORPG servers and re-activate thier banned accounts. So honestly, what does this company expect to do against the onslaught of human inginuity?
And then once I've taken the information off, what's to keep me from handing it to a buddy of mine who writes software, and make it into a quick install file. So there you have it, being distributed again over a p2p network.
Overall, the SERVICE would be nice, but the platform needs to be eliminated. Any time you offer a connection to a server, someone will figure out how to take backdoors into them.
Take Win XP for example, even with the time and effort made to make it the most secure OS MS has ever made henseforth, we still had someone who found a backdoor, and thus a worm created to shut down you're PC.
I'm saying that they'd better make this foolproof to begin with, because starting out, they have no margin for error. If ANYONE cracks this, they're done in.
Roberts told me it will probably take somewhere between 750,000 and one million subscribers to start turning a profit, based on $9.95 per month.
This doesn't look good to me. Seems they feel that they'll have to have something like $88,000,000 to $100,000,000 per year to break even? That's JUST TO BREAK EVEN!?! This certainly smells like a bad ".com" bussiness plan to me. Is it buying all the licences for the games?
Someone help me understand why he has to have that sort of cash flow, just to break even. After all, you can build rather large networks and even support them for a heck of a lot less than that. His console is pretty much a PC, not exactly huge costs there. Besides, the purchaser is paying his share. So, is the lion share going to pay for content? If he has to have that sort of cash flow to pay for content, that surely sounds like he isn't brokering very good deals to support his business model.
This doesn't look good to me. Seems they feel that they'll have to have something like $88,000,000 to $100,000,000 per year to break even? That's JUST TO BREAK EVEN!?! This certainly smells like a bad ".com" bussiness plan to me. Is it buying all the licences for the games?
Someone help me understand why he has to have that sort of cash flow, just to break even. After all, you can build rather large networks and even support them for a heck of a lot less than that. His console is pretty much a PC, not exactly huge costs there. Besides, the purchaser is paying his share. So, is the lion share going to pay for content? If he has to have that sort of cash flow to pay for content, that surely sounds like he isn't brokering very good deals to support his business model.
Are you sure? 1,000,000 subscribers by $10 per month by 10 months in the year<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-) is $100,000,000 per year, as the OP said. Which is a lot of money in anyone's books.
arent there 12 months in a year?
wouldn't that make it more like $89,550,000 to 119,400,000((750,000*9.95*12) to (1,000,000*9.95*12)) a year to break even? Who needs $120 million just to break even?
Or is this just the next wave of boiler room telemarketing gone horribly, horribly wrong?
wouldn't that make it more like $89,550,000 to 119,400,000((750,000*9.95*12) to (1,000,000*9.95*12)) a year to break even? Who needs $120 million just to break even?
Or is this just the next wave of boiler room telemarketing gone horribly, horribly wrong?
You are calculating Monthly, Annual income would be close to 100 Million!
You seem to be saying that if they don't get that many subs, they'll lost $88-$100mil / year. This is not necessarily the case - many of their costs (licensing, for example, and likely bandwidth) are going to be (somewhat) variable
No, he's talking about break-even point. That covers his monthly nut AND the variable costs (which should slide along with suscribers, for the most part).
Basically, he's saying that he needs $8.8 - $10 million a month to operate. That's just to keep the doors open and run a network?!?! Buy new content? That still seems huge, especially if his subscription model licenses are based on the number of licenses in use. But wait...that doesn't make sense because YOU are paying for the licenses too! Wait, you're paying for the hardware too!
So basically, he saying he needs $8.8 - $10 million a month to run a network. Total BS!
This guy has scam-a-tron written all over him.
Yet another<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.dot bust which will make investors afraid. Then again, they have stupid written all over them if they give money to this. So, unless the devil is hidden away in the details, this is nothing but another divx failure, probably worse, just waiting to happen.
Basically, he's saying that he needs $8.8 - $10 million a month to operate. That's just to keep the doors open and run a network?!?! Buy new content? That still seems huge, especially if his subscription model licenses are based on the number of licenses in use. But wait...that doesn't make sense because YOU are paying for the licenses too! Wait, you're paying for the hardware too!
So basically, he saying he needs $8.8 - $10 million a month to run a network. Total BS!
This guy has scam-a-tron written all over him.
Yet another<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.dot bust which will make investors afraid. Then again, they have stupid written all over them if they give money to this. So, unless the devil is hidden away in the details, this is nothing but another divx failure, probably worse, just waiting to happen.
You didn't read the articale did you? The $9.95 was what the consume pays not what they get.
Here's an example of a quick breakup of $10:
*ISP kickback - $3
*Game Developers Kickback - $2
*Operational Overhead/Loss/Tax - $3
*Amount they get - $2
So what he's saying is he needs $2 million a month to break even.
Here's a quick breakup of some monthly costs:
*Bandwidth + Connection ~ $250,000
*50 Staff @ $3000 a month ~ $150,000
*General Expecnces (rent,insurance) ~ $300,000
*Marketing ~ $300,000
*RnD ~ $250,000
*Licences (exclusive content) ~ $250,000
Total = $1,500,000
That would mean he'd be making about $500,000 which isn't alot.
Remmeber things allways cost more than you think.
That's just a quick example but you get the idea.
Here's an example of a quick breakup of $10:
*ISP kickback - $3
*Game Developers Kickback - $2
*Operational Overhead/Loss/Tax - $3
*Amount they get - $2
So what he's saying is he needs $2 million a month to break even.
Here's a quick breakup of some monthly costs:
*Bandwidth + Connection ~ $250,000
*50 Staff @ $3000 a month ~ $150,000
*General Expecnces (rent,insurance) ~ $300,000
*Marketing ~ $300,000
*RnD ~ $250,000
*Licences (exclusive content) ~ $250,000
Total = $1,500,000
That would mean he'd be making about $500,000 which isn't alot.
Remmeber things allways cost more than you think.
That's just a quick example but you get the idea.
LOL!
Are you for real? Look at everything you posted and think about it.
LOL!
In the mean time, I'll safely ignore this posting.
LOL!
Are you for real? Look at everything you posted and think about it.
LOL!
In the mean time, I'll safely ignore this posting.
LOL!
It might interest you to know that the infinium labs' "lab" is just a 100ftx100ft room with a desk, two phones, and no furniture. It's also in a strip mall in the florida keys. ( located at 5380 Gulf of Mexico Dr. Longboat Key, Fl 34228 )
in case any of you wanna go see for yourself.
in case any of you wanna go see for yourself.
He never said he needed that much PER YEAR. Only that much to break even with initial production costs/salaries etc. I can easily see it costing that much.
But I still don't like the whole Idea of not retaining a physical copy of my game. Hrmmph.
But I still don't like the whole Idea of not retaining a physical copy of my game. Hrmmph.
But this business plan is riddled with holes, I really don't see any way this company could turn a profit. They don't have enough push to get any major game companies to develop for their platform and the Xbox compatability will tie the whole platform up in legal challenges by MS (preliminary injunction on sales anyone?) Being VC funded doesn't mean shit, Dr. Koop and Space.com were VC funded along with the other 1000<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.bombs of the late 90's. While it is impressive that they received so much funding for a 1/2 baked idea in this current enviroment, finding a few suckers among the 1000's in the VC community is not that hard if your determined, have a good pitch, and startup experience on the resume.
that pennyarcade thing showed just what they're up to.. out of their minds, or just camping for investors.
bad for the investors though..
the thing is, the games companies won't get really enthuastic about a project to sell yet another EXTRA pc to pc owners, and to tweak their games for that and the broadband media(hey, ever wondered if it would be cool to download 5gigs the console games are starting to take over the network just when you wanted to play? with 'broadband' of 25kbyte/s...).
they're trying to sell a closed pc where a software package might be all that's needed. heck, there would be market for decent cheap subscripting of games over the network. but why on earth they want to get in the ring with xbox, gamecube and ps2 and use microsofts system for that too? like, wtf? yascd.
and since it's a 'full pc', limiting the programs to run to their approved won't mean good sales(you wouldn't be able to substitute your pc with it), and if they do allow anything to be ran without too much thought the whole 'secure' system is fucked..
all it screams is HYPE HYPE HYPE BUZZWORDS HYPE HYPE MONEY TO BE MADE REALLY HYPE HYPE.
bad for the investors though..
the thing is, the games companies won't get really enthuastic about a project to sell yet another EXTRA pc to pc owners, and to tweak their games for that and the broadband media(hey, ever wondered if it would be cool to download 5gigs the console games are starting to take over the network just when you wanted to play? with 'broadband' of 25kbyte/s...).
they're trying to sell a closed pc where a software package might be all that's needed. heck, there would be market for decent cheap subscripting of games over the network. but why on earth they want to get in the ring with xbox, gamecube and ps2 and use microsofts system for that too? like, wtf? yascd.
and since it's a 'full pc', limiting the programs to run to their approved won't mean good sales(you wouldn't be able to substitute your pc with it), and if they do allow anything to be ran without too much thought the whole 'secure' system is fucked..
all it screams is HYPE HYPE HYPE BUZZWORDS HYPE HYPE MONEY TO BE MADE REALLY HYPE HYPE.
many people copy games just because the convience, and if it's a really good game they go and buy the box because they want the box, support and doohickeys.
but it's really easier to d'l a disk image and mount it by software than ride the bus to the shop, stroll around thinking which gamebox hype to beliece and ride the bus back and find out the copyprotection sucks, the game is buggy and the box lied about 'open ended'.
Heh...that whole last bit about the buggy games reminded me of the whole "Enter The Matrix" Fiasco...I actually bought it....trusting the developers to give me a good game. Alas i was totally wrong, so many bugs made it unenjoyable, and it was TOO short...
That was the last time i trusted developer hype...if i see a game now...i'll probably pirate first...buy later...if i only play it for 10minutes and give up...then screw the game, i'll break the discs and delete the image.
If a demo comes out i'll get that rather than the game.
That was the last time i trusted developer hype...if i see a game now...i'll probably pirate first...buy later...if i only play it for 10minutes and give up...then screw the game, i'll break the discs and delete the image.
If a demo comes out i'll get that rather than the game.
Yes, I agree. I myself have downloaded quite a few games over p2p networks, only to play them for a few minutes and forget about them. This reminds me of the early to mid 90s when there was this thing called shareware, and everyone was playing the demos. Only problem was nobody ever made it back to the store to buy the game.
Then enter Phantom.
Download the demo. Like it = download it.
Don't like it= don't waste your time.
Then enter Phantom.
Download the demo. Like it = download it.
Don't like it= don't waste your time.
You could break the encryption scheme with software, and take your windows XP box connect it to their servers and play all you want. Yep, this is a winner. If you want to solve piracy its an elementary equation. You make paying for the games cheaper than copying them. Just like music cds. If the price is right people wont go through the trouble of copying. I smell rent seeking on the horizon my friends, well that and bullshit.
Oh my god, I'll never buy one!!!!
I guess they arent considering mods as well. A large part of games' success today is based off of mods. Once a game's life bleeds away, a person can just do some searching on the net and BAM, they can play their game again in a new scenario, or an alltogether now experience. I dont think this being missing will be a sell point with the PC friendly crowd.
The people in it just for the money don't want you to keep playing the same old game, they want you to buy new ones!
it sounds like a better webtv
That's absurd. It's going to fail.
Question; How do other game console developers make systems with equivalant or better hardware than a PC for 200$? (XBox, PS2 and Gamecube were all a lot less than their PC counterparts when released.)
Simple; They sell them at a loss. On average, they lose about 100$ per console when they sell the things, and they have special contracts with suppliers to get parts cheap. Plus there are many corners that can be cut when you don't need a huge OS like WindowsXP. That's why the Dreamcast only had Windows CE, and the PS3 may run Linux.
How to make up for the loss? By selling accesories, royalties for game licenses, development software and equipment, games, and other sources.
My point; Their business plan is going to run them into the ground. No matter how good the system is, peopel are not going to pay 400$ for a game system. That's the bottom line because Stone Cold Dan Cooper (that's me) said so. Also, because companies have tried in the past and failed.
Remember the Sega Saturn? That was a flop. 400$. The Playstation? That never caught on until they dropped the price. That window of time where it was too expensive for anyone sane was long enough for Nintendo to finish teh N64 and make it good enough to compete despite teh fact taht they crippled it by insisting on proprietary storage. By the time the N64 finally came out, PSX was still getting started because of it's outlandish price.
Forget about Windows XP, the size, the lack of games, etc. No matter what, at 400$, this thing is going nowhere. NOWHERE. Vaporware or not.
Question; How do other game console developers make systems with equivalant or better hardware than a PC for 200$? (XBox, PS2 and Gamecube were all a lot less than their PC counterparts when released.)
Simple; They sell them at a loss. On average, they lose about 100$ per console when they sell the things, and they have special contracts with suppliers to get parts cheap. Plus there are many corners that can be cut when you don't need a huge OS like WindowsXP. That's why the Dreamcast only had Windows CE, and the PS3 may run Linux.
How to make up for the loss? By selling accesories, royalties for game licenses, development software and equipment, games, and other sources.
My point; Their business plan is going to run them into the ground. No matter how good the system is, peopel are not going to pay 400$ for a game system. That's the bottom line because Stone Cold Dan Cooper (that's me) said so. Also, because companies have tried in the past and failed.
Remember the Sega Saturn? That was a flop. 400$. The Playstation? That never caught on until they dropped the price. That window of time where it was too expensive for anyone sane was long enough for Nintendo to finish teh N64 and make it good enough to compete despite teh fact taht they crippled it by insisting on proprietary storage. By the time the N64 finally came out, PSX was still getting started because of it's outlandish price.
Forget about Windows XP, the size, the lack of games, etc. No matter what, at 400$, this thing is going nowhere. NOWHERE. Vaporware or not.
The Dreamcast didn't run on Windows CE anymore than your home PC does. A few PC ports had Windows CE on the game discs themselves, but Windows CE was not built into the hardware, nor did most games use it. Likewise, it's extraordinarily unlikely that the PS3 will run on "Linux".
Furthermore, by the time of the N64 release, the PSX had several million units already sold while the Saturn was at about half a million. Sega dropped that Saturn's price to match that of the PSX and even tossed in free games -- Sega just had lost customers due to their previous business decisions (the 32X and Sega CD, in particular) and did a poor job marketing the new system in the US. The PSX's strong software support solidified the Sony lead.
That said, the Phantom is unlikely to gain any substantial marketshare -- not solely because of the cost, but because of the support (or, more precisely, the lack thereof). Furthermore, the pay-to-play model has done abyssimally poorly in the console marketplace.
Furthermore, by the time of the N64 release, the PSX had several million units already sold while the Saturn was at about half a million. Sega dropped that Saturn's price to match that of the PSX and even tossed in free games -- Sega just had lost customers due to their previous business decisions (the 32X and Sega CD, in particular) and did a poor job marketing the new system in the US. The PSX's strong software support solidified the Sony lead.
That said, the Phantom is unlikely to gain any substantial marketshare -- not solely because of the cost, but because of the support (or, more precisely, the lack thereof). Furthermore, the pay-to-play model has done abyssimally poorly in the console marketplace.
No...
Game companies don't lose 100 fucking dollars per system being put out. That's what we call "retarded".
Game companies don't lose 100 fucking dollars per system being put out. That's what we call "retarded".
Yep I agree it is simply too much!
and really to a consumer there really isn't
much difference. Gaming is Gaming as long as the Gameplay is good and excellent grahpics.
What you think MS, Sony
and Nintendo (well maybe not Nintendo so
they stated in the past) aren't moving
more aggressively into the online market.
They slightly do have more $$$ then this lamo
startup.
A note to there idea of having tier pricing!
Not good, uhmmmm why do u think there r so
many ways to hack Satellite and Cable. Its
just bloody to much. Come on now do we really
need more bills, need to figure out an integrated/
invisible payment plan, see next section.
A solution would be not only 2 lower the prices but work with a cable/satellite provider and bundle the console and service together. So to
the average joe he/she doesn't really notice
he/she is paying for the service every month.
Of course,
this is easier said then done. But it might give
them that edge they need over the big guys.
and really to a consumer there really isn't
much difference. Gaming is Gaming as long as the Gameplay is good and excellent grahpics.
What you think MS, Sony
and Nintendo (well maybe not Nintendo so
they stated in the past) aren't moving
more aggressively into the online market.
They slightly do have more $$$ then this lamo
startup.
A note to there idea of having tier pricing!
Not good, uhmmmm why do u think there r so
many ways to hack Satellite and Cable. Its
just bloody to much. Come on now do we really
need more bills, need to figure out an integrated/
invisible payment plan, see next section.
A solution would be not only 2 lower the prices but work with a cable/satellite provider and bundle the console and service together. So to
the average joe he/she doesn't really notice
he/she is paying for the service every month.
Of course,
this is easier said then done. But it might give
them that edge they need over the big guys.
Well I doubt that Microsoft will give them a bargain on their windows XP licences, since they are in direct compedition. A licence of Windows XP Familly costs what, about 100 $. A Pro licence about 200 $. So that leaves only 200$-300$ for the hardware.
Not a chance in the world this will work out. If only they where using Linux...
Not a chance in the world this will work out. If only they where using Linux...
When I first read about the Phantom I could have sworn that they claimed they were going to use Linux. I could be mistaken though...
You're thinking of the Indrema project which died before release a couple of years ago.
Putting this thing on Linux would be sensible in terms of initial cost, but Linux isn't exactly renowned for its abilities as a games platform.
All the big PC games are on the Windows platform and in order to entice publishers over, they need to make porting as easy as possible for them.
Still the point is moot as this thing has a completely idealistic business model that goes by the assumption that video game buyers are both moneyed and incredibly stupid.
Putting this thing on Linux would be sensible in terms of initial cost, but Linux isn't exactly renowned for its abilities as a games platform.
All the big PC games are on the Windows platform and in order to entice publishers over, they need to make porting as easy as possible for them.
Still the point is moot as this thing has a completely idealistic business model that goes by the assumption that video game buyers are both moneyed and incredibly stupid.
As a gamer, I can say quite comfortably that I am nowhere near moneyed, and I am not what I'd call incredibly stupid.
Just mostly stupid.
But still, no money. That's the hang-up I keep seeing. When you've got to sell, what, a million units to cover production costs, you're betting that a lot of people will want to buy an extra PC and subscription service to play games they then have to buy on a system withOUT the resolution capability (we're talking TV MONITORS still) of the PCs they already have with the same games installed! What?
Just mostly stupid.
But still, no money. That's the hang-up I keep seeing. When you've got to sell, what, a million units to cover production costs, you're betting that a lot of people will want to buy an extra PC and subscription service to play games they then have to buy on a system withOUT the resolution capability (we're talking TV MONITORS still) of the PCs they already have with the same games installed! What?
So lets see how long it takes to build a staging server that can talk to the Phantom. We can then just reroute the Phantom (with a simple router) to connect to the staging server and set up our games locally. This way we can control the content... just a thought.
actualy thats a pritty cool ides! I wonder if the same consept would will work on Longhorn(pladium)
I thought Xbox would fail. Until I played Halo.
All that matters is the games.
<A HREF="http://www.strater.ca/" TITLE="strater.ca">strater</a strater.ca>
All that matters is the games.
<A HREF="http://www.strater.ca/" TITLE="strater.ca">strater</a strater.ca>
I think this is great. I agree the content is everything. But it drives me crazy that the XBOX and other consoles have such a shitty game selection. I would buy one of these for the convenience of not having cd's laying around and also games on demand. I also want a high end system for my high end entertainment center that will hook to my AV unit with optical connections. I like the idea of having games for my family, friends and little ones and not just shoot em ups. This is a huge market since it is obviously not addressing the hard core gamer and is going for the consumer electronic and family purchase. I believe this will be very successful, why Xbox didn’t think of this; instead they stole the game developer’s m-player lobby advertising from these already starving companies. I think it is a great way to expand the shelf life of games and offer the convenience to non-tech gamers with the horsepower to make it a great experience.
A faithful Phantom Believer!
A faithful Phantom Believer!
The sad part about the X-Box is that Halo is the only good game that people name..no way in hell I would pay 200 dollars for a game console just to play one game..
i did paid £200 to get ps2 and gta vice city
You forgot KOTOR. Though my Star Wars loyalty isn't quite worth shelling out that much cash for one game.
~Nate
~Nate
GTA VC is also out on PC now...
And Halo is hitting PCs pretty soon, too.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:P
There's more than just Halo, though I will admit that it's the best. DOA3, Panzer Dragoon, KOTOR... they're all good games. I had serious doubts about the XBox, but they release just enough awesome titles to stay above the surface.
No, that's FOUR awesome titles, something that still doesn't justify Xbox to me. Sure more games are coming out. But where is Xbox's Final Fantasy sequel, even SaGa sequel, Chrono sequel, Suikoden sequel, GTA sequel, Driver sequel, even Mario sequel, Mario Cart sequel, Metroid sequel, Zelda sequel, Mega Man sequel... see what I'm getting at? What we have in Sony and Nintendo are a lot of console-specific games and even license companies.
And Xbox has Bungie! And Halo 2! YAAY!
And Xbox has Bungie! And Halo 2! YAAY!
GTA and Driver are coming to X-Box.
I don't play that many games per year, so the titles that are available are perfect for me. I don'tm spend more than a grand per year, and X-box gives maximum performance and gameplay for my money.
But I still play my Dreamcast more than anything else...funny how much more entertaining a 'dead' system is than the other systems. Gamecube just got Sonic Adventure! Yowza
I don't play that many games per year, so the titles that are available are perfect for me. I don'tm spend more than a grand per year, and X-box gives maximum performance and gameplay for my money.
But I still play my Dreamcast more than anything else...funny how much more entertaining a 'dead' system is than the other systems. Gamecube just got Sonic Adventure! Yowza
Didn't someone try this with DVDs - you buy the box, you buy the DVD, you pay to watch the DVD? I don't see this taking off at all...
Does this remind anyone of Divx?
No it doesn't.
Divx is still coming around.
DVD players are coming out with Divx MPEG-4 support, all that needs to be done is marketing and lower prices.
Divx is still coming around.
DVD players are coming out with Divx MPEG-4 support, all that needs to be done is marketing and lower prices.
Not DivX (the video compression codec) - idiot - the original Divx - pay per view DVD.
now you all remember when sega came out with sega tv that you could try out all the newest games on cause it was an online service. Before the internet came along. Well that flopped and this will too. People like owning their games. No matter how cheap it is to rent them, its cheaper still to buy them.
There defences will not be perfect. There will be a way around just it will be just like bomb disarming dark room a blade able to cut though the case slowly and get disable the entry protection then work on the board. Now that is if they have been really well defended. Now lets take it linux will want to run on this box. The rule number one for linux developers is if it is hardware we want to run on it. Basicly they have a problem linux developers will not be behind in pulling the box appart to find out how to get in even if they have to send the box to a country that there are not protections from doing so.
Basicly it is time the XBox has failed so will this every protection system in history has a flaw some where.
Basicly it is time the XBox has failed so will this every protection system in history has a flaw some where.
The following are my opinions and expressions of my freedom of speech.
I wouldn't trust a word Mr. Shambro or Roberts says.
Shambro is the former CEO of several failed companies, the biggest of which he drove directly into the ground StreamSearch.com in St. Louis Missouri. Blew through 40 Million like it was candy. Should have asked him about the europe Miami cigarette scam him and his ol cronie from Savvis, Tim Roberts, I am sure the IRS or customs would like to talk to them.
They are true masters at obtaining massive amounts of venture capital then spending the money in Vegas, expensive cars and boats.
If you don't believe me read the articles.
http://www.diplomaticplanet.net/dcomm/intrvw/sham<nobr>b<wbr></nobr> ro.html
http://digitalcoast.venturereporter.net/issues/dc<nobr>w<wbr></nobr> 12132000.html#Headline3201
http://comments.fuckedcompany.com/phpcomments/ind<nobr>e<wbr></nobr> x.php?newsid=22079&sid=1&page=1&parentid=0&crapfi<nobr>l<wbr></nobr> ter=1
Shambro is a real "visionary" too bad no one else sees a need for the crap he comes up with.
My bet is this company goes under in less then 2 years, that's about the life span of everyone of Shambro's and Roberts former companies.
I can not believe these guys are still around, they should be in jail with the Enron crew.
Wait till this information get to the former investors, and people in St. Louis.
You can run but you can't hide boyz.
I wouldn't trust a word Mr. Shambro or Roberts says.
Shambro is the former CEO of several failed companies, the biggest of which he drove directly into the ground StreamSearch.com in St. Louis Missouri. Blew through 40 Million like it was candy. Should have asked him about the europe Miami cigarette scam him and his ol cronie from Savvis, Tim Roberts, I am sure the IRS or customs would like to talk to them.
They are true masters at obtaining massive amounts of venture capital then spending the money in Vegas, expensive cars and boats.
If you don't believe me read the articles.
http://www.diplomaticplanet.net/dcomm/intrvw/sham<nobr>b<wbr></nobr> ro.html
http://digitalcoast.venturereporter.net/issues/dc<nobr>w<wbr></nobr> 12132000.html#Headline3201
http://comments.fuckedcompany.com/phpcomments/ind<nobr>e<wbr></nobr> x.php?newsid=22079&sid=1&page=1&parentid=0&crapfi<nobr>l<wbr></nobr> ter=1
Shambro is a real "visionary" too bad no one else sees a need for the crap he comes up with.
My bet is this company goes under in less then 2 years, that's about the life span of everyone of Shambro's and Roberts former companies.
I can not believe these guys are still around, they should be in jail with the Enron crew.
Wait till this information get to the former investors, and people in St. Louis.
You can run but you can't hide boyz.
That is the funniest thing I have ever read, a angry engineer obviously who was overpaid and upset when he lost his job and realized he was worth 1/5th of what he was making.
Sorry, but I have to correct you. The funniest thing that you've ever read will be re-reading your posting after doing a little research on these 2 fine individuals. But, of course, you are probably so short-sighted and lazy that you won't bother to take the time to back up your opinions with a little reality.
I come from the old Bridge days - the days when Savvis was a part of Bridge, and I think that I have some first-hand knowlege of how these guys operate. I just hope that you've invested some money, so that you can loose it all and thereby become more informed how it feels to get ripped off. (And, before you can ask, I did NOT invest in Savvis. I just know a lot of people who did...)
I come from the old Bridge days - the days when Savvis was a part of Bridge, and I think that I have some first-hand knowlege of how these guys operate. I just hope that you've invested some money, so that you can loose it all and thereby become more informed how it feels to get ripped off. (And, before you can ask, I did NOT invest in Savvis. I just know a lot of people who did...)
Your comments about Shambro are, no doubt, correct, but you forgot Mr. Roberts "fine" record.
Savvis IPO'ed at somewhere around $24.00 a share, and never looked back. It's been de-listed by NASDAQ because the price has been below $1.00 for over a year. I know several dozen people who jumped on the Savvis bandwagon and have lost their shirts, not to mention much of their retirement savings.
I remember, just about a year ago, the Savvis sales staff going on a "business meeting" in St. Croix. All expenses paid !!! All of this under the umbrella of Mr. Roberts wonderful leadership. All of this happening while the stock prices does a nose dive. All of this happening while trusting investors are losing thousands of dollars - and I'm not talking about professional investors, just regular people like you and me.
Yes, Mr. Roberts is NOT the type of person that I would trust to handle my money in a VC enterprise. Like the saying goes "Let the buyer beware". The people who were foolish enough to invest in a venture run by these 2 extortionists deserve to have their money taken. I just hope that none of the "little guys" get taken in....
Savvis IPO'ed at somewhere around $24.00 a share, and never looked back. It's been de-listed by NASDAQ because the price has been below $1.00 for over a year. I know several dozen people who jumped on the Savvis bandwagon and have lost their shirts, not to mention much of their retirement savings.
I remember, just about a year ago, the Savvis sales staff going on a "business meeting" in St. Croix. All expenses paid !!! All of this under the umbrella of Mr. Roberts wonderful leadership. All of this happening while the stock prices does a nose dive. All of this happening while trusting investors are losing thousands of dollars - and I'm not talking about professional investors, just regular people like you and me.
Yes, Mr. Roberts is NOT the type of person that I would trust to handle my money in a VC enterprise. Like the saying goes "Let the buyer beware". The people who were foolish enough to invest in a venture run by these 2 extortionists deserve to have their money taken. I just hope that none of the "little guys" get taken in....
Do you have personal knowledge of this? I thought Savvis was sold by Roberts in 96 or 98? When did he actually sell to Bridge and when did he actually leave Savvis?
$25 million? That doesn't even get you parked near the stadium much less in the ballpark. The console market is massive and it won't be long till the gaming press strings up these weasels.
I've got an idea:
Infinium Labs should give away 3,250 Phantoms to anyone who signs up for their mailing list. They don't have to buy anything, just sign up.
Infinium Labs should host a $700,000+ party at the Playboy Mansion to celebrate the release of the Phantom.
Infinium Labs should rent out House of Blues and hire Godsmack to play.
Oh wait...none of that worked at any of their old companies, why would it work for Infinium?
Investors really should do their homework.
I've got an idea:
Infinium Labs should give away 3,250 Phantoms to anyone who signs up for their mailing list. They don't have to buy anything, just sign up.
Infinium Labs should host a $700,000+ party at the Playboy Mansion to celebrate the release of the Phantom.
Infinium Labs should rent out House of Blues and hire Godsmack to play.
Oh wait...none of that worked at any of their old companies, why would it work for Infinium?
Investors really should do their homework.
Re:This company will flop just like St. Louis
Posted by: Anonymous Coward on August 24, 2003 03:15 PM
Infinium Labs main facility is a 100ft x 100ft shop in a strip mall in Florida, with a single desk and no furniture this is nothing more than a scam to get investor money. 5380 Gulf of Mexico Dr. Longboat Key, Fl 34228 theres the address feel free to check them out.
Re:This company will flop just like St. Louis
Posted by: Anonymous Coward on August 24, 2003 02:33 AM
One thing to say...
You make good points, but you may wish to bear in mind that the internet is not america. Your freedom of speech doesn't apply.
You make good points, but you may wish to bear in mind that the internet is not america. Your freedom of speech doesn't apply.
Re:This company will flop just like St. Louis
Posted by: Anonymous Coward on August 25, 2003 02:38 AM
Actually since Infintum whatever is an American company they could in theory sue for Libel or Slander if someone made false accusations about them, thus the earlier comment about the first ammendment was warranted
Re:This company will flop just like St. Louis
Posted by: Anonymous Coward on August 26, 2003 02:22 PM
That's one of the most idiotic things I've read in the past week. The internet does not confer any "rights" upon anyone, nor does it restrict anybody. However, many sites, depending upon where they are based, do confer rights or restrict freedoms, depending upon the hosting country of the domain and/or company.
Get a clue and wise up. Posting the crap you do doesn't make you look smarter, it just proves how stupid you are. (And that you have anti-American sentiments, and ar jealous of Americans because of it).
Get a clue and wise up. Posting the crap you do doesn't make you look smarter, it just proves how stupid you are. (And that you have anti-American sentiments, and ar jealous of Americans because of it).
I think this concept is unbelievable. Definitly fixed all the problems that MP3.com and the publishing industry is facing. And I agree with the reply to the post that sounds like a angry laidoff employee. My comment is go get a job and stop playing games so you can stop being so bitter.
I read the article. It was logical but even while reading you could tell there were many issues that would be solvable.
I read these comments. Almost everyone makes a completely VALID point why this will not work. At least five MAJOR kill points I have read thus far.
The idea is great in theory. But READ THE COMMENTS. IT IS OBVIOUS THAT ITS IMPOSSIBLE TO SUCCEED.
I question whether that poster has invested interest or is just stupid.
I read these comments. Almost everyone makes a completely VALID point why this will not work. At least five MAJOR kill points I have read thus far.
The idea is great in theory. But READ THE COMMENTS. IT IS OBVIOUS THAT ITS IMPOSSIBLE TO SUCCEED.
I question whether that poster has invested interest or is just stupid.
The Phantom is aimed at casual gamers, not the 'traditional gamers' that are normally targetted by games companies (ie. most of us).
My partner couldn't give a stuff about Return to Castle Wolfenstein, Halo, or any of the other mandatory 3D games that are out there these days.
You know what she wants to play? Frogger, Wonder Boy, maybe Final Fight or Double Dragon. Easy stuff that you can pick up in 3 minutes flat. And I bet that there's thousands of people out there who'd pay $5 a game to get access to that back catalog.
-- GuruJ.
My partner couldn't give a stuff about Return to Castle Wolfenstein, Halo, or any of the other mandatory 3D games that are out there these days.
You know what she wants to play? Frogger, Wonder Boy, maybe Final Fight or Double Dragon. Easy stuff that you can pick up in 3 minutes flat. And I bet that there's thousands of people out there who'd pay $5 a game to get access to that back catalog.
-- GuruJ.
But this is nuts: simple games like those you mentioned just DON'T EVOLVE (where's 'Frogger 2929'?) and hardly require today's latest hardware, let alone that of 10 years ago. If people want to play those games, they use a gameboy, pick them out of the bargain bin at Bestbuy, or download them for free. Yes, the simple games genre is perhaps underexploited, but is the Phantom going to bring with it the so-called real gaming revolution whereby games are family entertainment, not the obsessions of young males? Even if it could, isn't the point of the Phantom that it comes with a vast built-in title catalog and thus doesn't need much developer support?
People hold up Will Wright's stuff as harbingers of the ever-comming great cross-over, but those games are at least as much baroque timesinks as the usual 'serious' game genres. Maybe we can conceive of a gaming experience which is both deep and casual (assuming this isn't a contradiction), but how would the Phantom fill that demand better than the established consoles?
Everyone who has broadband has a computer, the hardware situation of which is getting simpler and cheaper by the year. The idea of broadband game delivery, whether subscription pay-per-play or pay-per-title or whatever, is really not a bad idea at all: maybe Steam and its ilk will help small develpers distribute games at higher royalty rates, and isn't Amazon already doing internet distribution? But see, its already covered already and with no 400 dollar box to buy or extra broadband service charge, no clumsy ISP business partnerships.
People hold up Will Wright's stuff as harbingers of the ever-comming great cross-over, but those games are at least as much baroque timesinks as the usual 'serious' game genres. Maybe we can conceive of a gaming experience which is both deep and casual (assuming this isn't a contradiction), but how would the Phantom fill that demand better than the established consoles?
Everyone who has broadband has a computer, the hardware situation of which is getting simpler and cheaper by the year. The idea of broadband game delivery, whether subscription pay-per-play or pay-per-title or whatever, is really not a bad idea at all: maybe Steam and its ilk will help small develpers distribute games at higher royalty rates, and isn't Amazon already doing internet distribution? But see, its already covered already and with no 400 dollar box to buy or extra broadband service charge, no clumsy ISP business partnerships.
You miss my point. The people targeted by the Phantom have no interest in buying the latest $70 games, or even in going down to EB to buy a GameBoy.
They want to be able to download a fun $5 game for 24 hours, just like a pay-per-view movie, without ever leaving the comfort of their home.
I imagine the Phantom will be bundled in 'special' cable deals at a nominal $5-$10/month additional charge, rather than a $400 hit. This makes it a far more attractive option.
-- GuruJ.
PS. I agree with you about The Sims. Its only real breakthrough was to attract a 50% female demographic. In all other ways, it is comparable to other conventional games.
PPS. Check out Frogger/Frogger 2 released in the past couple of years by Infogrames/Atari. They're actually quite good!
They want to be able to download a fun $5 game for 24 hours, just like a pay-per-view movie, without ever leaving the comfort of their home.
I imagine the Phantom will be bundled in 'special' cable deals at a nominal $5-$10/month additional charge, rather than a $400 hit. This makes it a far more attractive option.
-- GuruJ.
PS. I agree with you about The Sims. Its only real breakthrough was to attract a 50% female demographic. In all other ways, it is comparable to other conventional games.
PPS. Check out Frogger/Frogger 2 released in the past couple of years by Infogrames/Atari. They're actually quite good!
You are so blind.
First of all, I don't know HOW you know that so many people want to download a fun game for 24 hours. I seriously doubt the Phantom will be at a monthly fee in addition to the subscription service. Then Infinium would have to go get the Phantoms back, and they probably need the money FAST anyhow.
First of all, I don't know HOW you know that so many people want to download a fun game for 24 hours. I seriously doubt the Phantom will be at a monthly fee in addition to the subscription service. Then Infinium would have to go get the Phantoms back, and they probably need the money FAST anyhow.
It's a nice idea that's two years too late. I already cellphones
that provide a similar service. Sure the games are crude, mostly
java-based stuff. The future of downloadable gaming is in
wireless devices. For the gaming addict, only a full-blown
console will do. For the casual gamer, nothing beats fiddling
with your cellphone while waiting for the light to turn green or
the train to reach its destination.
that provide a similar service. Sure the games are crude, mostly
java-based stuff. The future of downloadable gaming is in
wireless devices. For the gaming addict, only a full-blown
console will do. For the casual gamer, nothing beats fiddling
with your cellphone while waiting for the light to turn green or
the train to reach its destination.
That might be... but a $400 initial payout will discourage this. $5-$15 a month to play fun, "lite", easy games? That's reasonable. A huge down-payment like this for little games isn't reasonable. You could pick up an old console and more games than you could ever play for under $400. Hell, you can even get a GBA and a whole lot of games for under $400.
Assuming that some sort of copy restrictive technology does succeed (both technically in that noone is able to crack it and in the marketplace). While I doubt Phantom is going to succeed (as others mentioned, too many problems getting other companies on boad), other things like Palladium or a super crippled PS3 or Xbox2 would likely succeed in the marketplace.
And 10 years later, when the company pulls the plug on the server (to force people to migrate to its newer, more expensive Phantom2, or just because it went out of business), what will happen to all the games. Assuming it isn't cracked, the games will cease to exist.
At best, some people will have logged the packets sent to/from the game machine by routing the broadband connection through a personal router in the hope that quantum computing (or some other non-deterministic Turing machine) will allow the cryptography to be cracked and an emulator written in the future.
And 10 years later, when the company pulls the plug on the server (to force people to migrate to its newer, more expensive Phantom2, or just because it went out of business), what will happen to all the games. Assuming it isn't cracked, the games will cease to exist.
At best, some people will have logged the packets sent to/from the game machine by routing the broadband connection through a personal router in the hope that quantum computing (or some other non-deterministic Turing machine) will allow the cryptography to be cracked and an emulator written in the future.
I can't believe the things I'm reading in these comments. Do any of you even know what the hell you're talking about? Have any of you ever tried to get a company or product off the ground? Do you have any concept of how difficult it is to raise capital to even get to the stage that Phantom appears to be right now? Have you ever done anything in your pathetic little lives to actually make a difference in the world?
Where is your sense of adventure? Where is your faith in innovation? If people like Henry Ford didn't advance the automobile, you'd be still riding a bicycle. If the Apple II, the Tandy TRS-80 or Commodore weren't introduced to the consumer marketplace, you wouldn't have electronic games to play or to bitch about. And better yet, if Licklider didn't write his Intergalactic Network concept in '62, you wouldn't even have a place to post your stupid comments.
The next time you visit Disneyland, think about this, Walt Disney went bankrupt 7 times in his career trying to give you the "Happiest Place on Earth". But, he did it. Why? Because he had a dream. He wanted to make a difference.
I applaud these guys for their sheer balls. Something I'm sure most of you don't have. They are trying to do something to make your lives different and hopefully better. No, they won't end world hunger or stop any Middle East crisis, but they just might help to give developers a new, wider and safer distribution source. This will in turn allow you losers to go and waste your lives away playing games while others are do something constructive with their lives like providing thousands of jobs for people who love to be innovative.
Where is your sense of adventure? Where is your faith in innovation? If people like Henry Ford didn't advance the automobile, you'd be still riding a bicycle. If the Apple II, the Tandy TRS-80 or Commodore weren't introduced to the consumer marketplace, you wouldn't have electronic games to play or to bitch about. And better yet, if Licklider didn't write his Intergalactic Network concept in '62, you wouldn't even have a place to post your stupid comments.
The next time you visit Disneyland, think about this, Walt Disney went bankrupt 7 times in his career trying to give you the "Happiest Place on Earth". But, he did it. Why? Because he had a dream. He wanted to make a difference.
I applaud these guys for their sheer balls. Something I'm sure most of you don't have. They are trying to do something to make your lives different and hopefully better. No, they won't end world hunger or stop any Middle East crisis, but they just might help to give developers a new, wider and safer distribution source. This will in turn allow you losers to go and waste your lives away playing games while others are do something constructive with their lives like providing thousands of jobs for people who love to be innovative.
One question; Have you?
You're taking this awy too seriously. Anyway, wether they have "the balls" or not (you're such a redneck if you say that) they're still making the same bad decisions that have killed companies before them. They're making multiple bad decisions that have killed companies before them. And there is nothing wrong with voicing our opinions, that's what the forum is for.
You're taking this awy too seriously. Anyway, wether they have "the balls" or not (you're such a redneck if you say that) they're still making the same bad decisions that have killed companies before them. They're making multiple bad decisions that have killed companies before them. And there is nothing wrong with voicing our opinions, that's what the forum is for.
I must say that I agree. Especially since there are a number of people on this site that think give-stuff-away-for-free is a good businessmodel. Atleast these people charge for their product.
Who-all thinks that?
Even modern linux companies (such as my last employer -- and yes, they're still around) don't hold give-stuff-away-for-free as their primary business model, and if you think otherwise then you don't understand the intricacies of making money in our niche.
The giving-stuff-away bits generally involve cutting costs required to profit through some separate means, rather than being a method to profit in and of themselves.
Example: I work at a medical software company. Our development workstations run GNOME on AFS. I make a patch to help GConf play better, I send it in to the maintainer -- "give it away" to the community -- so that I don't have to repatch the next version that comes out, thus saving the company money. Think of this on a far larger scale and you understand part of why so many profit-driven companies "give away" parts of the software they've written.
- Charles Duffy
Even modern linux companies (such as my last employer -- and yes, they're still around) don't hold give-stuff-away-for-free as their primary business model, and if you think otherwise then you don't understand the intricacies of making money in our niche.
The giving-stuff-away bits generally involve cutting costs required to profit through some separate means, rather than being a method to profit in and of themselves.
Example: I work at a medical software company. Our development workstations run GNOME on AFS. I make a patch to help GConf play better, I send it in to the maintainer -- "give it away" to the community -- so that I don't have to repatch the next version that comes out, thus saving the company money. Think of this on a far larger scale and you understand part of why so many profit-driven companies "give away" parts of the software they've written.
- Charles Duffy
Re:You are all a bunch of frickin' crybabies
Posted by: Anonymous Coward on August 24, 2003 02:41 AM
They WILL fail. Why? Because these 'crybabies' are the market. And no one trusts it. If everyone thinks your console is going to bomb, then they're not going to buy. And if they're not going to buy, it WILL bomb. That's even seperate from the glaring holes in security, and the fact that every sign points to it being vaporware.
Re:You are all a bunch of frickin' crybabies
Posted by: Anonymous Coward on August 25, 2003 04:37 PM
They are not trying to enrich our lives. THEY ARE TRYING TO MAKE MONEY.
Re:You are all a bunch of frickin' crybabies
Posted by: Anonymous Coward on August 25, 2003 10:52 PM
The only reason anyone is crying is because their minds are filled with crap from the media that has distorted the company's image. It would be nice to get all the facts straight first before people start going off in a flame war, but oh wait this is another useless message board wasting bytes on some server in the middle of who cares.
I'm against the whole copyright/owning digital information stuff, but this idea is a good start.
For $9 a month if it provides users with enough games (unlimited games) I think its worth it.
I dont however like the copyright restriction crap, I see it like this, if they want to sell a service, why do they need strict DRM? People still wont be able to play the games online unless they subscribe to their network, also instead of restricting offline play they should focus on online play.
I dont like DRM, but I think the idea is alot better than selling games on CD.
Thi Phantom thing can be a great thing. It can. But will it succeed?
Thi is an adventurous plan, the sort of you don't know if it will go high or down the drain.
If it succeed, it will be a revolution, the kind of thing we'll always remember as an great innovation in internet gaming, like cellulars where to Telephones. But then again, Cellulars have bad sides.
It will be a must or it will be a flop, but either way it will stay in our minds as an extraordinary Concept...
BTW, i doubt the almighty security, but hey, they just might<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;)
Thi is an adventurous plan, the sort of you don't know if it will go high or down the drain.
If it succeed, it will be a revolution, the kind of thing we'll always remember as an great innovation in internet gaming, like cellulars where to Telephones. But then again, Cellulars have bad sides.
It will be a must or it will be a flop, but either way it will stay in our minds as an extraordinary Concept...
BTW, i doubt the almighty security, but hey, they just might<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;)
This "Phantom" is something that I doubt either Sony or Nintendo really need to worry about.
This is another one of those "company gets everything, end user gets nothing" type deals. The EULA must be a 200 page book...
This is another one of those "company gets everything, end user gets nothing" type deals. The EULA must be a 200 page book...
You buy the TV. This is the same as buying the computer or game console. No software but you own the box.
Paying cable. Cable is more or less a service providing brodcast signal. In itself if dosen't pay for the content (it dose today but not how it should work)
This is your ISP.. you have a content source but haven't paid for the content.
Now you pay for the premium channels... this is where your signing up to the service.
Now your getting ads. Ok we do notice that and it's pritty annoying. The subscriptions pay for the content the adds just dubble charging becouse they can.
And the ads are the software bought and paid for.
I can see the subscription modle working in the whole "game of the month club" style. You get a new game every month.
He wants the non-violemt games and those are the cheap ones. The violent games are expensive to develup. At $9 a month he can toss out a cheap non-violent kid friendly game every month.
Paying cable. Cable is more or less a service providing brodcast signal. In itself if dosen't pay for the content (it dose today but not how it should work)
This is your ISP.. you have a content source but haven't paid for the content.
Now you pay for the premium channels... this is where your signing up to the service.
Now your getting ads. Ok we do notice that and it's pritty annoying. The subscriptions pay for the content the adds just dubble charging becouse they can.
And the ads are the software bought and paid for.
I can see the subscription modle working in the whole "game of the month club" style. You get a new game every month.
He wants the non-violemt games and those are the cheap ones. The violent games are expensive to develup. At $9 a month he can toss out a cheap non-violent kid friendly game every month.
Stop comparing TVs to this. I had a big friggin' antenna outside my house for 10 years. Know what? *laughs* I got HBO.
I might have almost taken this post seriously... except that there were more spelling errors in it then my ten year old brother's first essay paper. Learn to spell if you want a valid post... please.
Theres no way people will pay 2 monthly fees plus $400 for something that already dosn't work at a cheeper price. Music sites thought they could sell this type of thing to music fans, for one monthly fee mind you, and all have failed. (except apple's thing, which is sale based not fee based.)
Good luck selling people PC's where the only way it can be used is by paying 2 monthly fees.
Good luck selling people PC's where the only way it can be used is by paying 2 monthly fees.
not only that, but secure downloadable games for PC already don't work very well (example: gamesondemand.yahoo.com). That is, people don't have to pay $400 for a new system, and it works over their existing internet connection without additional fees to the ISP.
This phantom thing will probabily die before its available to the greater public.
This phantom thing will probabily die before its available to the greater public.
People already do it.
I am looking forward to the phantom. I think these people are trying to advance our technology. I can't wait to try it out! I can't believe how many negative commnents that I have read. What is wrong with the complainers? Are you afraid of the unknown? I bet the majority of you have applied to be beta testers!!
It's kind of funny that the same people complaining about this is to a large degree the same people thinking that 1) Do free stuff, 2) ?, 3) Profit! is a working businessmodel.
Having in mind that most that are posting here are anonymous, it's difficult to grasp how you've managed to come to that conclusion.
Free? How does that have anything to do with the obviouse flaws in this business model. it has a high initial price point, reoccuring fees that only include a basic service to more or less pay them more for leasing of their games. No matter how fast the content delivery is, it will still be amazingly slow because it is limited by the hardline. I dont know about you but paying 400 dollars for the privlege of paying 9 more a month on top of my broadband to pay them a yet to be determined purchase fee to wait 8+ hours to play a game is not atractive at all. I fail to see how this is an advancing concept. The hardware that it uses is a moot point, it is a locked down PC at a PC price. The only thing the phantom possibly does is make it wasier to find games that noone cares about. Im not sure what is the bigger joke, the fact that this thing might exist or the possibility of somone buying it.
I signed up as a beta tester. I'm convinced it will fail, but my thought is that the console will be worth a fortune when it's never officially released. *laughs* Okay, I actually just want to cut the damn thing open and see what 'bad bad things' happen.
I think that MS will have a problem with someone else using Windows XP to run a rival console. Thats like someone making a console and using Sony's Software to run it.
Also, I agree with an earlier post in which someone stated something about where games go after the Phantom goes bankrupt or something. At least with the Dreamcast, I still have the games and can play anytime I want. I can even still buy games for very cheap prices! You couldn't do that with the Phantom.
Bottomline, the Phantom will die by way of the 3DO or something. Too pricey, lack of support. Besides, the PS3 and Xbox2 will kick its ass!
Also, I agree with an earlier post in which someone stated something about where games go after the Phantom goes bankrupt or something. At least with the Dreamcast, I still have the games and can play anytime I want. I can even still buy games for very cheap prices! You couldn't do that with the Phantom.
Bottomline, the Phantom will die by way of the 3DO or something. Too pricey, lack of support. Besides, the PS3 and Xbox2 will kick its ass!
I was wondering the same thing... I was wondering how in the world Microsoft would let them compete using their own software like that. I would think there is SOMETHING in their liscense that protects them from that. Even if there isn't, I can't imagine Microsoft sitting there passively and letting this machine compete with their XBox. Unless they're buying XP at a liscense at a -greater- cost than retail (for some extra liscense), I can't imagine how Microsoft would let them do it.
Also, a 2 Gig PC, with what I would assume includes matching RAM and such. I would assume that like every other company, they will sell at some sort of loss even when buying materials in bulk. What prevents me from formatting the hard drive, or not even that, just finding some way to delete all the software except XP, and having myself a 2gig PC for 400 dolalrs and screwing them out of some money.
Or beyond that, what keeps someone from copying the whole boot of the Phantom Stuff, and putting it on a partition or second hard drive? Or even taking the phantom harddrive and hooking it up to their computer. Sure its probably hard to hack the system itself, but what if you essentially put the whole thing into your home computer... You then have access to all the incryption... There's gotta be a key somewhere, even if you have to connect to the service and sniff packets to find it. Once you've got that, what keeps you from copying and pasting the games onto your regualr hard drive?
Lets even take it a step further, once someone has the whole system profile on their computer, what keeps them from making a key generator, and putting the system up for Download, So people can Download the system, then go off the pirate servers, like suggested in a post above? If they still used the main servers, then I guess Phantom would rejoice, because they wouldn't have to worry about hardware and would get the subscription.
Sorry.. drifting off into a rant here...
If you lose money on the hardware... and people download the firmware, then why sell the hardware? But then at that point, what separates Phantom from any other subscription service?
Is it because people like having something tangible and standard, like a game system? But doesn't that also make it seem logical that people would want tangible games? Is there a line being drawn?
There is so much up in the air about this Phantom system. I would like to see it succeed, I'm a captialist at heart. I like seeing people make money off their ideas, particularly if the people who spend the money recieve something valuable out of it. This just seem so... flakey...
Also, a 2 Gig PC, with what I would assume includes matching RAM and such. I would assume that like every other company, they will sell at some sort of loss even when buying materials in bulk. What prevents me from formatting the hard drive, or not even that, just finding some way to delete all the software except XP, and having myself a 2gig PC for 400 dolalrs and screwing them out of some money.
Or beyond that, what keeps someone from copying the whole boot of the Phantom Stuff, and putting it on a partition or second hard drive? Or even taking the phantom harddrive and hooking it up to their computer. Sure its probably hard to hack the system itself, but what if you essentially put the whole thing into your home computer... You then have access to all the incryption... There's gotta be a key somewhere, even if you have to connect to the service and sniff packets to find it. Once you've got that, what keeps you from copying and pasting the games onto your regualr hard drive?
Lets even take it a step further, once someone has the whole system profile on their computer, what keeps them from making a key generator, and putting the system up for Download, So people can Download the system, then go off the pirate servers, like suggested in a post above? If they still used the main servers, then I guess Phantom would rejoice, because they wouldn't have to worry about hardware and would get the subscription.
Sorry.. drifting off into a rant here...
If you lose money on the hardware... and people download the firmware, then why sell the hardware? But then at that point, what separates Phantom from any other subscription service?
Is it because people like having something tangible and standard, like a game system? But doesn't that also make it seem logical that people would want tangible games? Is there a line being drawn?
There is so much up in the air about this Phantom system. I would like to see it succeed, I'm a captialist at heart. I like seeing people make money off their ideas, particularly if the people who spend the money recieve something valuable out of it. This just seem so... flakey...
I think Microsoft, Nintendo and Sony are all in for a big surprize when Phantom hits the market. I think gamers are going to beg, borrow and steal to get their hands on one of these units. Why? Because we are a society that loves state-of-the-art technology and revolutionary ways of doing things. And the big 3 aren't really doing their job.
Just the mystery being built around the branding, in itself, is brilliant. It exceeds the campaign Xbox has run (which has been excellent) and this product hasn't even hit the streets yet. I hope they give the big 3 a run for their money. I think they will.
Just the mystery being built around the branding, in itself, is brilliant. It exceeds the campaign Xbox has run (which has been excellent) and this product hasn't even hit the streets yet. I hope they give the big 3 a run for their money. I think they will.
Re:The competition is needed to keep technology fr
Posted by: Anonymous Coward on August 23, 2003 07:39 AM
What mystery? Only major computer geeks know about it and to most it is only a huge joke. The technology is not state of the art at all. It is the sick amalgamation of 1 part realism and 3 parts failed prospect all in a poor package. The nokia Ngage has had a better ad campaign and more attractive design then this hunk of slab.
Re:The competition is needed to keep technology fr
Posted by: Anonymous Coward on August 24, 2003 01:18 PM
These people are marketing to gamers though, who are known to be one of the most frugal, and most needful of information. Gamers don't want "mystery" surrounding a product that's going to cost them a $400 down payment. They prefer to be much more informed and will all too easily pay $300 for a system that they know is going to have what they want.
So yes, they won't be aiming for the "enthusaist" or "hardcore" gamer market, and your girlfriend probably doesn't care about AA and AF or framerates, but the simple problem is this... to play games like frogger, etc. that the casual gamer might want to play, they don't need a $400 machine. Gamers that would want a $400 console (more than double PS2 or Xbox), would probably want to buy the games. Also, let's take the biggest online game, ever, CS. Well... people have been playing CS (and for lots of them, almost entirely CS) for years. They could have paid $30 one-time for it... or $9.95 per month for four years. Great bargain. The name of the game is cash flow... that is why everything is pushing towards services with monthly fees rather than simple purchases. Obviously this is not what consumers want (look at the success of Apple Music Store vs. PC alternatives for legal music d/l, all subscription-based, even though PCs dwarf Macs). I pay for cable, phone, internet; no more bills please. Oh yeah, and MS is going to sledgehammer this thing to death anyway for using XP (in favor of their alternative to PC gaming).
In conclusion:
For hardcore gamer, we want to buy games, cuz we'll be playing them for a while, and we don't want to keep paying for them. Athletes don't rent their sports equipment, gamers don't rent their games.
For casual gamer, why buy a $400 machine and pay $9.95 a month for games when you could get a $150 machine and buy the cheapo games you'd get anyway every once in a while, and save some money without another bill? Or better yet, just put them on that computer or console that's alraedy in your house, because if you're casual you probably don't care what the console is particularly.
And for that stuff about making sure your little kids play appropriate games, you can already do that. Just don't buy them inappropriate games. Solved.
In conclusion:
For hardcore gamer, we want to buy games, cuz we'll be playing them for a while, and we don't want to keep paying for them. Athletes don't rent their sports equipment, gamers don't rent their games.
For casual gamer, why buy a $400 machine and pay $9.95 a month for games when you could get a $150 machine and buy the cheapo games you'd get anyway every once in a while, and save some money without another bill? Or better yet, just put them on that computer or console that's alraedy in your house, because if you're casual you probably don't care what the console is particularly.
And for that stuff about making sure your little kids play appropriate games, you can already do that. Just don't buy them inappropriate games. Solved.
I'm sorry, did I miss something? Isn't the idea to have access to multiple games for $9.95 a month? And wouldn't having a service such as Phantom allow you to access the updated versions of those games without repurchasing a CD? And would a single CD be able to offer you new services such as interactive games and virtual reality when they become available from a competitor?
No one likes to get left behind when it comes to the latest and greatest items on the market. Seems to me that paying $9.95 a month for 100's of titles is actually cheaper than paying $39.95 for each CD,
No one likes to get left behind when it comes to the latest and greatest items on the market. Seems to me that paying $9.95 a month for 100's of titles is actually cheaper than paying $39.95 for each CD,
hum...you're mistaken...it's 9'95 for the access to the server, not the games...you'll still pay the fee for the games you buy, it's just that you'll download them instead of getting them at the market.
If it would be this way, it think Phantom would'nt be a possibility, since 9'95 to repay all develloppers....hum that's kinda impossible don't you think?
If it would be this way, it think Phantom would'nt be a possibility, since 9'95 to repay all develloppers....hum that's kinda impossible don't you think?
The article states and I quote, "...they won't be able to play games for free, unless they're some of the many "play before you buy" trials Roberts plans to offer or some of the games that will be included with the $9.95 per month."
$9.95 gets you in the door and a bundled package of games. I believe that you will pay additionally for premium games.
Are you thinking that the game developers are going to expect full retail payment from Phantom to distribute these games? Many of the titles can't even get shelfspace now, so that will not be the case. Many of them would rather get a dollar per download multiplied by hundreds of thousands of subscribers than their wholesale price to retailers who may only sell 10 units per outlet. You may even find that many might offer the product for free up to a certain number of downloads, just to drive up the hype of their product so that they have an increase in ancillary market value.
Phantom will make money. Plenty of it and so will all these developers.
I'm sure Phantom will offer advertising space to these developers, cross promotions and other incentives to help get their product to the end users.
$9.95 gets you in the door and a bundled package of games. I believe that you will pay additionally for premium games.
Are you thinking that the game developers are going to expect full retail payment from Phantom to distribute these games? Many of the titles can't even get shelfspace now, so that will not be the case. Many of them would rather get a dollar per download multiplied by hundreds of thousands of subscribers than their wholesale price to retailers who may only sell 10 units per outlet. You may even find that many might offer the product for free up to a certain number of downloads, just to drive up the hype of their product so that they have an increase in ancillary market value.
Phantom will make money. Plenty of it and so will all these developers.
I'm sure Phantom will offer advertising space to these developers, cross promotions and other incentives to help get their product to the end users.
Dont forget that the majority of online games played now (except for mmorpgs) are free, and the updates cant be downloaded for no charge.
That's _can_ be downloaded for no charge. For often as long as the company is alive.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>;D
I'm gonna agree with most of what you said here, except for that "your girlfriend probably doesn't care about AA and AF or framerates" crap. I am so sick of guys assuming that they're the only ones who game. I can frag the hell out of most of my male friends at FPSes(my personal favorite), and somehow my boobs and vagina manage not to interfere! Go figure!
bitter bitter bitter
*sigh* My girlfriend handed my ass to me in Soul Calibur 2... But she doesn't know what a framerate is. She's also the only female gamer I know, and she's casual at best.
These cats are sharp, tidbits from them i acquried
Posted by: Anonymous Coward on July 12, 2003 03:04 PM
Analyzing the console gaming market has been an interesting endeavor for the management team at Infinium Labs. We entered this analysis by asking many fundamental questions.
• What is the history of the gaming market?
• How big is this market?
• Is the market growing?
• Where is the market?
• Who are our competitors?
• What are our competitor’s weaknesses?
• Is their room for another console in this market?
• Who buys video consoles?
• Who plays video games?
• Who is our target audience?
• What types of games are people playing?
• How is the market changing?
• How are people paying for their gaming experience?
• How might people want to pay for their gaming experience in the future?
• Will this business be profitable for our employees, our investors and us?
• What is unique about Infinium Lab’s solution to gaming?
What is the history of the gaming market?
The history of video games is about companies and ironies. Atari was an American company with a Japanese name, and the Japanese company Sega was started by an American. Magnavox, the company that started it all, is owned by Phillips, a company that is over a century old, and Nintendo, the company that made video games popular again, is just as old. And who would have ever thought Sony, the company that invented all types of electronics, from transistor radios to video recorders, would release a video game console that would become its top-selling product of all time?
How big is this market?
The market is huge and it is growing. Doug Lowenstein, President of the IDSA states, “While most analysts had predicted flat year-on-year sales of computer and video games in 2001, especially after the September attacks, the industry defied theses forecasts to post solid year-on-year revenue increases, and established a strong foundation for the explosive growth expected in the coming three to five years.� Market research IDC predicts that U.S. revenue alone from online gaming will rise from $210 million in 2001 to $1.8 billion in 2005. One in four Europeans own game consoles. Sixty percent of all Americans play video games, or about 145 million people.
The following statistics on entertainment software are revealing:
• $6.9 billion in U.S. entertainment software sales in 2002
• $6.35 billion in U.S. entertainment software sales in 2001
• $6.0 billion in U.S. entertainment software sales in 2000
• $6.1 billion in U.S. entertainment software sales in 1999
• $5.5 billion in U.S. entertainment software sales in 1998
• $4.4 billion in U.S. entertainment software sales in 1997
• $3.7 billion in U.S. entertainment software sales in 1996
• $3.2 billion in U.S. entertainment software sales in 1995
According to DFC Intelligence, “There is a nearly $20 billion a year worldwide market for video games and computer games. It is expected that 23.4 million people worldwide will be going online from a video game console system.
Is this market growing?
DFC Intelligence predicts that the total overall number of online gamers worldwide is expected to increase 155% from 2001 to 2006 to 113.9 million. Market researcher IDC predicts that U.S. revenue alone from online gaming will rise from $210 million in 2001 to $1.6 billion in 2005, including both PC and console games. IDSA reports that sales of computer and video game software grew 7.9% from 2000, generating $6.35 billion in sales. The amount of games sold in 2001 rose to over $225 million units, up 4.5% compared to 2000. A Forrester Research report states that leading analysts forecast that the next generation of video game consoles may achieve household penetration rates approaching 70 percent by 2005.
According to the latest sales figures from The NPD Group, a leading market information company, total U.S. retail sales of video game hardware, software and accessories grew 10 percent in 2002 over 2001. The video game industry generated $10.3 billion in record-breaking sales, surpassing the previous record high of $9.4 billion in 2001. The category of video game software, consisting of both console and portable software, experienced sales gains of 21 percent in dollar volume and sold 15 percent more units in 2002 than in 2001. Annual 2002 video game hardware sales were $3.5 billion with an increase of 10 percent in unit volume.
Market researcher GartnerG2 predicts that by 2005, more than 18% of U.S. households will have an online-enabled game console. They also predict that subscription revenues could grow from $138 million in 2002 to $2.3 billion by 2005. They further predict that the spread of broadband will be the key to growth. “While only 12% of U.S. households use high-speed Internet connections today, some 36% of them will have signed up by 2005. And one-third of these households with broadband access will use it for online console gaming.�
Market experts predict that online gaming will be the largest area of expansion in the video games sector. This is an increasingly likely possibility considering the number of games under development that incorporate some sort of online facility.
Where is the market?
The market is worldwide. The largest concentration of sales will continue to be in the U.S. The markets in Europe and Asia will continue to grow. DFC Intelligence reports that North America will be the largest market for online gamers. Fourteen million online console gamers are forecasted by 2006. In Europe, 3.7 million online console gamers are forecasted. And in Asia, 5.6 million online gamers are forecasted. These predictions are conservative forecasts according to DFC.
Who are our competitors?
The global games console sector is dominated by three companies: Microsoft (from the U.S.), Nintendo and Sony (both from Japan). Microsoft is the newest company to enter the console market with its Xbox. The Xbox was launched November 2001 in the U.S. Launches in Japan and Europe followed shortly after. Nintendo launched its GameCube console in Japan and the U.S. in late 2001. It followed with a European launch in May 2002. The Playstation 2 (PS2) was launched by Sony in 2000.
The Sony PS2 has a substantial lead in this market. There are an estimated 300 titles in development for the PS2.
While Sony is the company to beat, all three players are expected to be in the market for the long haul.
Infinium Labs recognizes that these companies are in the same sector as we are, but we believe our gaming solution is so different from these companies that we don’t see ourselves as their competitor. We offer a unique solution to gaming.
What are our competitor’s weaknesses?
Each competitor has specific and unique deficiencies. None of them have an online distribution model built through a console. These companies are operating with a legacy system based on a CD architecture. We see this as old technology and not the wave of future gaming. They also sell at retail outlets which offer limited shelf space and consequently limited choices.
Microsoft Xbox
• Lack of developers
• Small hard drive
Nintendo Game Cube
• Slow processing speeds
• No hard drive
• No online connectivity
Sony PS2
• Has unnecessary DVD player
• Slow processing speeds
• No hard drive
• No built in connectivity
GameCube Playstation2 Xbox
CPU 128bit 405MHz 128bit 294MHz 32bit 733MHz
Main RAM 24Mb 32Mb RAM 64Mb unified memory
Graphics RAM 16Mb 4Mb embedded on GS see above
Graphics processor 128bit 202MHz 147MHz GS 300MHz Nvidia iGPU
Other processors Input/output processor
Signal processing unit 200MHz Nvidia MCPX
Memory Bandwidth 3.2Gb/sec 3.2Gb/sec 6.4Gb/sec
Who is our target audience?
Infinium Labs will target the entire gaming audience. One of the Phantom’s significant features is its GUI which allows for ease of use for the variety of people who play games.
There are many interesting statistics about the gaming population. For console games:
• 42% of the most frequent game players are under eighteen years old
• 37% of most frequent game players are between 18 and 35 years old
• 21% of the most frequent game players are over 35 years old
• 43% of people who play interactive games are women
• The average age of an interactive game player is 28 years old
(source ISDA c.2002)
Infinium Labs is particularly interested in the moderate and hard-core gamers. DFC Intelligence forecasts the biggest growth area to be for moderate and hard-core gamers. The number of hard-core gamers, as a percentage of total online gamers, is expected to grow substantially from now to 2006.
What type of games are people playing?
The following are video games sales by genre:
• 22.2% Sports
• 19.8% Action
• 17.6% Strategy
• 16.7% Racing
• 5.7% Fighting
• 5.6% Other Shooters
• 3.6% Family
• 3.5% 1st Person Shooters
• 3.4% Child
(source: NPD FunWorld)
How is the market changing?
Games are moving online. “Powerful platforms, bigger pipes, and people with a penchant for games will converge and unify the fragmented games market with a new $26 Billion entertainment genre� states Forrester Research. Pervasive gaming will attract mass audiences by blending games with other media.
DFC Intelligence predicts several trends.
• Online games are likely to be very attractive to many consumers
• Online games will likely support multiple business models.
• There is potential for advertising revenue from online games.
• A bundling model, where online games are one part of an entire package of services, is likely to prevail.
A market niche that is developing is in the education arena. Academia is researching the education possibilities with the gaming platform. The increase in online teaching and learning offers a wide range of possibilities for console-based teaching and learning. Experiments in this area have already been tried with some success on the Sony Playstation. Lightspan produces educational software for both the PC and the Playstation console. This is used in the classroom and at home; many schools allow pupils to borrow a console in order to use the software at home. Infinium Lab’s management team recognizes this upcoming market and intends to be first in and a leader.
One of the fastest growing sections of this market is with adult content. Infinium Labs intends to capitalize on this trend by offering password secure entrance. The Phantom’s GUI lends itself to ease of use so that adults can have access to mature content while our youth are protected from inappropriate games.
How are people paying for their gaming experience?
The most common form of purchasing games is to buy video games as CDs at retail. Games generally cost $30 to $60. There are several companies who have online gaming that charge by subscription. Yahoo currently has a PC-based Video on Demand system. Their system has 52 games available for play. These games are paid for the following ways:
1. $4.95 for unlimited use of 1 game for 3 days
2. $9.95 for unlimited use of 3 games for a month
3. $12.95 for unlimited use of 5 games for a month
4. $14.95 for unlimited use of 10 games for a month
How might people want to pay for their gaming experience in the future?
DFC Intelligence believes that a “bundling� model, where online games are one part of an entire package of services, is likely to prevail. This package of services is likely to include a variety of content, beyond games, and may even include specific hardware devices.
The analogy best used for online games is perhaps that of cable television. Cable has a mixture of revenues from basic subscription fees, premium packages, pay-per-view and advertising. A large number of people subscribe to the basic cable channels, but the number of subscribers to each premium channel is minimal. This is the model for a service like Microsoft’s Internet Gaming Zone/MSN Gaming Zone and EA.com’s fledgling online game service. There are free sections where it is hoped that advertising will help the service break-even while at the same time helping increase retail sales. However, the Gaming Zone and EA.com also have certain premium games which consumers have to pay extra for to access.
Will this business be profitable for our employees, our investors and us?
The gaming industry is currently a $23 billion dollar business worldwide. The U.S. had a record breaking year in 2002 with 10.3 billion dollars in sales. The market is growing substantially. Our management team aspires to become a major player in the game console market. We’ve concluded that there is room for another player in this market. We intend to run a fiscally responsible and conservative business with the goal of quick profitability. We are confident that our employees and investors will be rewarded.
What is unique about the Infinium Lab’s solution to gaming?
• Direct Publishing
• Immediate game feedback
• Broad Game Selection
• Windows Based
• Open developer architecture
• Patches, News and Updates are all seamless
• Never-ending Perpetual license to our customers
• Superior customer service
• Built by gamers
• All wireless accessories
• Online Community
• Open Multi-player
• No porting necessary
• Advanced Hardware Architecture
• Secure Delivery
2.2 Impact of Broadband
How many households will have broadband gaming access?
â€¢ï€ ï€ Higher speed broadband connections are expected to significantly improve the online entertainment experience from the consumer perspective.
â€¢ï€ ï€ It has already been shown that broadband users spend significantly more time onlineï€ than
narrowband users.
â€¢ï€ ï€ Broadband connections allow for the delivery of rich media, which could significantly increase advertising possibilities.
â€¢ï€ ï€ DFC Intelligence forecasts that 37.4 million U.S. households will have some form of broadband access by 2006.
Changing Distribution Channels
â€¢ï€ ï€ Traditional distribution channels are overcrowded with too much product and not enough shelf space. Increasingly, only large publishers have access to retail distribution. New interest in older distribution methods, such as affiliate label programs, offers an option for small developers. However, many emerging companies are betting that the best chance for success will be to explore new, or alternate, channels of distribution. Alternate channels include e-commerce, shareware, mail order, bundling and non-traditional retail.
â€¢ï€ ï€ Networks, online services and other forms of electronic distribution have the potential to provide new sources of revenue and new channels for distribution. Networks can be used to provide product samples, deliver complete products, or as a way to play multiplayer games. One of the most important alternative channel developments has been digital distribution, the sale and/or rental of software over networks. Examples include Electronic Software Distribution (ESD) as done by ReleaseNow, Digital River, RealNetworks’ RealArcade, cable video game subscription services, such as the discontinued Sega Channel, and limited edition digital objects (LEDOs), such as those pioneered by SegaSoft and Genetic Anomalies.
â€¢ï€ ï€ New distribution channels will expand the market, but it is unlikely that they will destroy the importance of existing retail channels. This is true even for games that can only be played online. The only exception is likely to be free, advertiser supported games which can easily be distributed online.
â€¢ï€ ï€ As new distribution channels emerge, it may shift the power structure and make the market more efficient. The growth of more distribution opportunities will not necessarily lower distribution costs.
â€¢ï€ ï€ With the expected penetration of cable modems and other high bandwidth devices, a significant up tick in digital distribution for both game sales and rentals can be expected.
Consumer Awareness
â€¢ï€ ï€ In our discussions with industry insiders, almost everyone seemed to believe that online games
would be very attractive to a large number of consumers because they allow people to compete and socialize with other humans instead of against a machine. There were many respondents that felt that the social aspects of online games would revolutionize leisure time as we know it.
â€¢ï€ ï€ The most popular buzzword is “community.â€? Online allows people to form their own communities with other people that share similar interests. Companies can develop online games with strong community aspects. This will allow online game companies to build strong affinity relationships with customers that could last for years.
â€¢ï€ ï€ In the past, consumers have spent a great deal of time and money on traditional video games
and computer games. This would seem to indicate that if online games can improve on the “entire game experience,� consumers should be willing to spend significant amounts of money and time on online games.
â€¢ï€ ï€ To many traditional game publishers, the main attraction of the online world may be as a supplement to existing boxed games. People may not spend much time playing others online, but online could become a crucial component of all existing games as players use the online services to compare scores, swap hints, learn about new products, download new levels and build closer affinity relationships with the game publishers.
â€¢ï€ ï€ A possible silver lining in the clouds is that even given today’s expensive, difficult to use and unreliable service, a substantial percentage of consumers are willing to spend significant money and time using interactive products. If the products become easier to use and offer high quality content, it can only be imagined how many new users will come on board.
Reaction from Traditional Retail Channel
â€¢ï€ ï€ Retailers are naturally very skeptical of online games because they threaten to cut into their traditional sales of boxed games.
â€¢ï€ ï€ It is likely that retailers could really benefit from the online game industry as products that are accessed online are still sold at retail. However, it may take awhile before retailers truly learn to support online games.
2.3 State of Online Games
Overview
â€¢ï€ ï€ There is a $20 billion a year worldwide market for video games and computer games.
â€¢ï€ ï€ The majority of traditional video games have focused on a human competing against the computer.
â€¢ï€ ï€ Traditional video games are expensive products that have been sold in boxes at retail.
â€¢ï€ ï€ Online games add a new dimension to game play by introducing a social aspect and allowing human versus human competition on a mass scale.
â€¢ï€ ï€ Online games also significantly expand the business model and distribution paradigms for interactive entertainment.
â€¢ï€ ï€ Online games are not likely to replace single -player games. A major attraction of traditional video games is solitaire play.
â€¢ï€ ï€ Several online games are starting to earn revenue comparable to retail games.
What is Online Entertainment?
Online entertainment uses networked computer technology to create a shared game experience for two or more consumers or uses the network to distribute content to a single -player. “Online entertainment� changes the computer-based game paradigm from man against machine to man against man, adding a socialization element to the entertainment experience. Online entertainment creates a new paradigm in the world of computer entertainment, challenging fundamental assumptions about design, markets and even distribution solutions. The optimistic vision is that online entertainment will create a viable mass-market audience through a synergy of rich sensory stimulation, socialization and the cognitive challenges of puzzles and games.
For most people past their 40’s, the notion of “game� brings to mind a social activity. Whether it is a sport, a board game or a card game, games are as much about social dynamics and emotional dialog as they are about the specific rules of play. However, ask someone raised with a personal computer or video game if they want to play a game and they may well respond, “Sure, but what are you going to do?� For them, games are as often as not a solitary activity, played between themselves and a computer-controlled opponent.
The dominance of the single -player aesthetic of computer-based games arose from the technical limitations of early home computer hardware. Ironically, some of the earliest computer games involved multiple players using networked terminals in university computer labs. The earliest personal computers and home video game console systems, however, lacked the communications gear needed to let game players share a common game environment by connecting two or more machines. Indeed, even today, the marketing practices of video game console manufacturers foster a relative environment where solo play is at the forefront of a game designer’s intention: most game consoles charge consumers for the second controller.
However, many of the best-selling video games have been multiplayer products like EA’s Madden football and Nintendo’s Mario Party series. The successes of multiplayer games in the console arena affirm the assumption that socialization is a powerful lure in entertainment experiences. While not online entertainment per se, the social nature of multiplayer games, as well as the earliest massive market acceptance of multiplayer designs is to be found in console -based designs, particularly fighting and sports games. Despite these successes, multiplayer games still generate fewer hours of screen time than stand alone games. The most obvious reason is that finding two players in the same household willing to play at the same time is more difficult than sitting down and turning on a computer opponent.
Online entertainment stands in direct contrast to many of the established genres of entertainment software. In online entertainment, games are almost always played between two or more players using two or more computers that are connected. The hardware comes in a variety of forms, from a pair of video game consoles in the same living room, to large simulated online worlds inhabited concurrently by literally thousands of players via the Internet. In a sense, the “new� field of online entertainment isn’t new at all. Developers of online entertainment are simply taking a ‘back to the future approach,’ creating games that are once again a social, rather than a solitary, activity.
The Market Niches Today
The online game market today is distinguished by three distinct niches:
â€¢ï€ ï€ â€œCommodityâ€? games: Simple games designed for a mass-market audience and generally free to play. Revenue is expected to come from advertising support.
â€¢ï€ ï€ Retail Hybrids: These games are bought in a box at retail and can then be played online for free.
â€¢ï€ ï€ Monthly Subscription Games: So far, individual games that can command a subscription fall into one category, online-only massively multiplayer persistent world games or MMOGs for short. These games are bought at retail for $20 to $50 and then require a $10 monthly subscription fee to play online.
General Online Population
The growth in the online game market, of course, depends on a growing base of consumers with online access.
â€¢ï€ ï€ Online access is starting to become a standard for household PCs. Research from Odyssey shows that by July of 1999, online access accounted for 53% of PC usage time.
â€¢ï€ ï€ By 2005 it is expected that nearly all households with a PC will also be online.
â€¢ï€ ï€ Currently, the U.S. is far ahead in terms of Internet access with about 40% of all online households. Over 50% of U.S. households have online access.
â€¢ï€ ï€ Online access in North America is expected to grow 27% between 2001 and 2006 to 68.5 million PC households.
â€¢ï€ ï€ Europe and Asia are expected to be the fastest growing markets for online access. The number of households in Europe with PC online access is expected to grow 37% between 2001 and 2006 to 65 million households. The number of households in Asia with PC online access is expected to grow 8% between 2001 and 2006 to 57 million households.
â€¢ï€ ï€ Online games are already a major activity for households with online access (see charts). However, online game usage is much higher in the U.S. than other countries.
2.4 Forecasts
Total N. American Online PC HHs (Households) 1999-2006 Chart
Total Europe Online PC HHs 2000-2006
Total Worldwide Online PC HHs 2000-2006
Broadband vs Narrowband Forecasts
The growth of households with high-speed “broadband� connections to the Internet is expected to grow significantly over the next several years. In short, increasing broadband connectivity will have several implications for the online game market:
â€¢ï€ ï€ Always-on, high-speed connections make it much easier to get into and start a game.
â€¢ï€ ï€ Broadband is a big improvement for casual games and the mass-market gamer.
â€¢ï€ ï€ Broadband opens up more potential for advertising and rich media.
â€¢ï€ ï€ Broadband growth has been fairly strong and has equaled or exceeded past estimates.
Total North America Broadband PC HHs 1999-2006
N. America PC Narrowband vs. Broadband HHs 1999-2006
N. American HH PC Broadband Penetration by Type 1999-2006
N. America HH PC Broadband by Type 1999-2006
Video Game Console Hardware Forecast
The next generation of video game machines will have the ability to go online. The 128-bit Sega Dreamcast was the first video game machine to have a major online focus. However, in early 2001, Sega announced they would no longer manufacture the Dreamcast. Despite this, the new game systems coming on the market will allow for online game applications. The following chart shows combined U.S. forecasts for the Sega Dreamcast, the Sony PlayStation 2 (released in the U.S. in 10/00), the Microsoft X-Box (released in the U.S. in November 2001) and the Nintendo GameCube (released in the U.S. in November 2001).
The U.S. is expected to be about 50% of the worldwide market.
U.S. 128-Bit Hardware Forecasts 1999-2006
Forecasts for U.S. 128-Bit Hardware Installed Base
Forecast for Online Gamer Population
It is proven that consumers like to play interactive entertainment. In the U.S., over 40% of households have a video game console system and it is estimated that over 100 million people play video or computer games. There are not nearly as many people that play online games, however this is expected to change significantly over the next few years. In the long-term, it is expected that the number of online gamers will exceed the number of people that currently play traditional video and PC games.
In terms of the number of online gamers, North America is far ahead of the rest of the world. Of course, the U.S. accounts for the bulk of North American usage. There are a number of differences between the U.S. and the rest of the world:
â€¢ï€ ï€ The U.S. is one fairly unified market with a common language. Europe, Asia and the rest of the world consist of many diverse markets with different customs and languages.
â€¢ï€ ï€ The U.S. has fairly mature Internet penetration and a sophisticated user base. In the rest of the world, the focus is more on building the infrastructure and basic access. Much of the Internet growth in the rest of the world will be in the area of infrastructure. The delivery of content such as online games tends to trail the building of infrastructure by several years.
Forecasts for the number of online gamers
These forecasts are broken down by type of gamer (hard-core, moderate, casual), platform (PC, console) and region of the world (North America, Europe, Rest of World). The forecasts are through 2005.
â€¢ï€ ï€ The total overall number of online gamers worldwide is expected to increase 155% from 2001 to 2006 to 113.9 million.
â€¢ï€ Console online games are a new market and it is expected that the period from 2001 to 2006 will be an infrastructure building phase where the focus will be on educating consumers and experimenting to see what works.
â€¢ï€ ï€ The console online gamer is expected to attract a large portion of moderate and hard-core gamers and not a significant number of casual gamers. To play online console games between now and 2006 a consumer would almost, by definition have to be a moderate or hard-core gamer.
â€¢ï€ ï€ North America is expected to be the largest market for online gamers. The number of PC online gamers is expected to be up 67% between 2001 and 2006 to 48 million. Another 14 million console online gamers are forecasted.
â€¢ï€ ï€ In Europe, the number of PC online gamers is expected to grow 134% to 20.8 million by 2006. There is forecasted to be a smaller base of 3.7 million online console gamers.
â€¢ï€ ï€ In Asia and the rest of the world, the number of PC online gamers is expected to grow 197% to 19.9 million by 2006. There is forecasted to be a solid base of 5.6 million online console gamers. There is also a significant base of users that access online games from outside the home and they are not included in these forecasts.
â€¢ï€ ï€ The number of console online gamers in Japan and Europe could be much bigger than we forecasted. Currently, we are assuming that companies building console online games will focus on North America first and will not focus on the rest of the world until they learn what works in the North American market. However, this is our biggest area of uncertainty, there is some indication that there may be a big focus on console online games in Asia and therefore our estimates would be on the low end.
â€¢ï€ ï€ DFC Intelligence forecasts the biggest growth area to be for moderate and hard-core gamers. The number of hard-core online gamers, as a percentage of total online gamers, is expected to grow substantially from now to 2006. In 2006, it forecasted that the market will consist of 9% hard-core gamers, 28% moderate gamers and 63% casual gamers.
N. America Console Online Gamers 2000-2006
N. America Console Online Gamers 2000-2006
Total N. America Online Gamers 2000-2006
N. America Total Online Gamers 2000-2006
Total Europe Console Online Gamers 2000-2006
Europe Console Online Gamers 2000-2006
Total Europe Online Gamers 2000-2006
Total Europe Online Gamers 2000-2006
Total Worldwide Console Online Gamers 2000-2006
Worldwide Console Online Gamers 2000-2006
Total Worldwide Online Gamers 2000-2006
Total Worldwide Online Gamers 2000-2006
Forecasts for Online Game Hours of Usage 2000-2006
This section has forecasts for the number of hours consumers are likely to spend playing online games. This is something that has never been tracked in the traditional retail based game business. However, for online games the usage metric is extremely important, because, like with television and radio, usage will be a major determinant of both industry revenue and industry expenses. In the traditional video game business, companies did not care a great deal about hours of usage because once a consumer had bought a product at retail they could use it as much as they liked without it generating additional revenue (not including add-ons and sequels). The forecasts are presented for number of annual hours of online game usage. These forecasts are broken down by type of gamer (hard-core, moderate, casual) and platform (PC, console).
â€¢ï€ ï€ More and more people will spend time playing online games.
â€¢ï€ ï€ Usage for moderate gamers is expected to have the highest growth rate. From 2000 to 2006 we forecast that average weekly usage will go from 3 to 5 hours a week. This figure could grow significantly higher beyond that timeframe. Share of usage for moderate gamers is forecasted to grow from 22% in 2000 to 47% in 2006.
â€¢ï€ ï€ Usage from casual gamers is expected to grow on a steady pace, from 1 hour a week in 2000 to 2.5 hours a week in 2006. Overall share of usage is expected to decline from 59% in 2000 to 28% in 2006.
â€¢ï€ ï€ With hard-core gamers, there is not much room for average usage growth. These consumers already play a lot and there are only so many hours a day. Hard-core gamers spend an average of 10 hours a week playing online games. Their market share of usage is expected to increase from 19% in 2000 to 25% in 2006.
Console Online Gamer Hours of Use 2000-2006
Console Online Game Hours 2000-2006
Console Online Game Hrs of Use by Consumer Type 2006
Total Online Gamers Hours of Use 2000-2006
Total Online Game Hours 2000-2006
Total Online Gamers Hours of Use 2000-2006
Online Game Hrs of Use PC vs Console
Consumer Payment: Most Likely Market Scenario
Console Online Gamer Pay Revenue 2000-2006
Console Online Game Pay Revenue 2000-2006
Total Online Gamer Pay Revenue 2000-2006
Total Online Game Pay Revenue 2000-2006
Online Game Pay Revenue by Consumer Type
Online Game Advertising Revenue 2000-2006
Advertising revenue figures also include sponsorship and e-commerce revenue.
Advertising Revenue: Most Likely Market Scenario
Console Online Gamer Ad Revenue 2000-2006
Console Online Game Ad Revenue 2000-2006
Total Online Gamer Ad Revenue 2000-2006
Total Online Game Ad Revenue 2000-2006
• What is the history of the gaming market?
• How big is this market?
• Is the market growing?
• Where is the market?
• Who are our competitors?
• What are our competitor’s weaknesses?
• Is their room for another console in this market?
• Who buys video consoles?
• Who plays video games?
• Who is our target audience?
• What types of games are people playing?
• How is the market changing?
• How are people paying for their gaming experience?
• How might people want to pay for their gaming experience in the future?
• Will this business be profitable for our employees, our investors and us?
• What is unique about Infinium Lab’s solution to gaming?
What is the history of the gaming market?
The history of video games is about companies and ironies. Atari was an American company with a Japanese name, and the Japanese company Sega was started by an American. Magnavox, the company that started it all, is owned by Phillips, a company that is over a century old, and Nintendo, the company that made video games popular again, is just as old. And who would have ever thought Sony, the company that invented all types of electronics, from transistor radios to video recorders, would release a video game console that would become its top-selling product of all time?
How big is this market?
The market is huge and it is growing. Doug Lowenstein, President of the IDSA states, “While most analysts had predicted flat year-on-year sales of computer and video games in 2001, especially after the September attacks, the industry defied theses forecasts to post solid year-on-year revenue increases, and established a strong foundation for the explosive growth expected in the coming three to five years.� Market research IDC predicts that U.S. revenue alone from online gaming will rise from $210 million in 2001 to $1.8 billion in 2005. One in four Europeans own game consoles. Sixty percent of all Americans play video games, or about 145 million people.
The following statistics on entertainment software are revealing:
• $6.9 billion in U.S. entertainment software sales in 2002
• $6.35 billion in U.S. entertainment software sales in 2001
• $6.0 billion in U.S. entertainment software sales in 2000
• $6.1 billion in U.S. entertainment software sales in 1999
• $5.5 billion in U.S. entertainment software sales in 1998
• $4.4 billion in U.S. entertainment software sales in 1997
• $3.7 billion in U.S. entertainment software sales in 1996
• $3.2 billion in U.S. entertainment software sales in 1995
According to DFC Intelligence, “There is a nearly $20 billion a year worldwide market for video games and computer games. It is expected that 23.4 million people worldwide will be going online from a video game console system.
Is this market growing?
DFC Intelligence predicts that the total overall number of online gamers worldwide is expected to increase 155% from 2001 to 2006 to 113.9 million. Market researcher IDC predicts that U.S. revenue alone from online gaming will rise from $210 million in 2001 to $1.6 billion in 2005, including both PC and console games. IDSA reports that sales of computer and video game software grew 7.9% from 2000, generating $6.35 billion in sales. The amount of games sold in 2001 rose to over $225 million units, up 4.5% compared to 2000. A Forrester Research report states that leading analysts forecast that the next generation of video game consoles may achieve household penetration rates approaching 70 percent by 2005.
According to the latest sales figures from The NPD Group, a leading market information company, total U.S. retail sales of video game hardware, software and accessories grew 10 percent in 2002 over 2001. The video game industry generated $10.3 billion in record-breaking sales, surpassing the previous record high of $9.4 billion in 2001. The category of video game software, consisting of both console and portable software, experienced sales gains of 21 percent in dollar volume and sold 15 percent more units in 2002 than in 2001. Annual 2002 video game hardware sales were $3.5 billion with an increase of 10 percent in unit volume.
Market researcher GartnerG2 predicts that by 2005, more than 18% of U.S. households will have an online-enabled game console. They also predict that subscription revenues could grow from $138 million in 2002 to $2.3 billion by 2005. They further predict that the spread of broadband will be the key to growth. “While only 12% of U.S. households use high-speed Internet connections today, some 36% of them will have signed up by 2005. And one-third of these households with broadband access will use it for online console gaming.�
Market experts predict that online gaming will be the largest area of expansion in the video games sector. This is an increasingly likely possibility considering the number of games under development that incorporate some sort of online facility.
Where is the market?
The market is worldwide. The largest concentration of sales will continue to be in the U.S. The markets in Europe and Asia will continue to grow. DFC Intelligence reports that North America will be the largest market for online gamers. Fourteen million online console gamers are forecasted by 2006. In Europe, 3.7 million online console gamers are forecasted. And in Asia, 5.6 million online gamers are forecasted. These predictions are conservative forecasts according to DFC.
Who are our competitors?
The global games console sector is dominated by three companies: Microsoft (from the U.S.), Nintendo and Sony (both from Japan). Microsoft is the newest company to enter the console market with its Xbox. The Xbox was launched November 2001 in the U.S. Launches in Japan and Europe followed shortly after. Nintendo launched its GameCube console in Japan and the U.S. in late 2001. It followed with a European launch in May 2002. The Playstation 2 (PS2) was launched by Sony in 2000.
The Sony PS2 has a substantial lead in this market. There are an estimated 300 titles in development for the PS2.
While Sony is the company to beat, all three players are expected to be in the market for the long haul.
Infinium Labs recognizes that these companies are in the same sector as we are, but we believe our gaming solution is so different from these companies that we don’t see ourselves as their competitor. We offer a unique solution to gaming.
What are our competitor’s weaknesses?
Each competitor has specific and unique deficiencies. None of them have an online distribution model built through a console. These companies are operating with a legacy system based on a CD architecture. We see this as old technology and not the wave of future gaming. They also sell at retail outlets which offer limited shelf space and consequently limited choices.
Microsoft Xbox
• Lack of developers
• Small hard drive
Nintendo Game Cube
• Slow processing speeds
• No hard drive
• No online connectivity
Sony PS2
• Has unnecessary DVD player
• Slow processing speeds
• No hard drive
• No built in connectivity
GameCube Playstation2 Xbox
CPU 128bit 405MHz 128bit 294MHz 32bit 733MHz
Main RAM 24Mb 32Mb RAM 64Mb unified memory
Graphics RAM 16Mb 4Mb embedded on GS see above
Graphics processor 128bit 202MHz 147MHz GS 300MHz Nvidia iGPU
Other processors Input/output processor
Signal processing unit 200MHz Nvidia MCPX
Memory Bandwidth 3.2Gb/sec 3.2Gb/sec 6.4Gb/sec
Who is our target audience?
Infinium Labs will target the entire gaming audience. One of the Phantom’s significant features is its GUI which allows for ease of use for the variety of people who play games.
There are many interesting statistics about the gaming population. For console games:
• 42% of the most frequent game players are under eighteen years old
• 37% of most frequent game players are between 18 and 35 years old
• 21% of the most frequent game players are over 35 years old
• 43% of people who play interactive games are women
• The average age of an interactive game player is 28 years old
(source ISDA c.2002)
Infinium Labs is particularly interested in the moderate and hard-core gamers. DFC Intelligence forecasts the biggest growth area to be for moderate and hard-core gamers. The number of hard-core gamers, as a percentage of total online gamers, is expected to grow substantially from now to 2006.
What type of games are people playing?
The following are video games sales by genre:
• 22.2% Sports
• 19.8% Action
• 17.6% Strategy
• 16.7% Racing
• 5.7% Fighting
• 5.6% Other Shooters
• 3.6% Family
• 3.5% 1st Person Shooters
• 3.4% Child
(source: NPD FunWorld)
How is the market changing?
Games are moving online. “Powerful platforms, bigger pipes, and people with a penchant for games will converge and unify the fragmented games market with a new $26 Billion entertainment genre� states Forrester Research. Pervasive gaming will attract mass audiences by blending games with other media.
DFC Intelligence predicts several trends.
• Online games are likely to be very attractive to many consumers
• Online games will likely support multiple business models.
• There is potential for advertising revenue from online games.
• A bundling model, where online games are one part of an entire package of services, is likely to prevail.
A market niche that is developing is in the education arena. Academia is researching the education possibilities with the gaming platform. The increase in online teaching and learning offers a wide range of possibilities for console-based teaching and learning. Experiments in this area have already been tried with some success on the Sony Playstation. Lightspan produces educational software for both the PC and the Playstation console. This is used in the classroom and at home; many schools allow pupils to borrow a console in order to use the software at home. Infinium Lab’s management team recognizes this upcoming market and intends to be first in and a leader.
One of the fastest growing sections of this market is with adult content. Infinium Labs intends to capitalize on this trend by offering password secure entrance. The Phantom’s GUI lends itself to ease of use so that adults can have access to mature content while our youth are protected from inappropriate games.
How are people paying for their gaming experience?
The most common form of purchasing games is to buy video games as CDs at retail. Games generally cost $30 to $60. There are several companies who have online gaming that charge by subscription. Yahoo currently has a PC-based Video on Demand system. Their system has 52 games available for play. These games are paid for the following ways:
1. $4.95 for unlimited use of 1 game for 3 days
2. $9.95 for unlimited use of 3 games for a month
3. $12.95 for unlimited use of 5 games for a month
4. $14.95 for unlimited use of 10 games for a month
How might people want to pay for their gaming experience in the future?
DFC Intelligence believes that a “bundling� model, where online games are one part of an entire package of services, is likely to prevail. This package of services is likely to include a variety of content, beyond games, and may even include specific hardware devices.
The analogy best used for online games is perhaps that of cable television. Cable has a mixture of revenues from basic subscription fees, premium packages, pay-per-view and advertising. A large number of people subscribe to the basic cable channels, but the number of subscribers to each premium channel is minimal. This is the model for a service like Microsoft’s Internet Gaming Zone/MSN Gaming Zone and EA.com’s fledgling online game service. There are free sections where it is hoped that advertising will help the service break-even while at the same time helping increase retail sales. However, the Gaming Zone and EA.com also have certain premium games which consumers have to pay extra for to access.
Will this business be profitable for our employees, our investors and us?
The gaming industry is currently a $23 billion dollar business worldwide. The U.S. had a record breaking year in 2002 with 10.3 billion dollars in sales. The market is growing substantially. Our management team aspires to become a major player in the game console market. We’ve concluded that there is room for another player in this market. We intend to run a fiscally responsible and conservative business with the goal of quick profitability. We are confident that our employees and investors will be rewarded.
What is unique about the Infinium Lab’s solution to gaming?
• Direct Publishing
• Immediate game feedback
• Broad Game Selection
• Windows Based
• Open developer architecture
• Patches, News and Updates are all seamless
• Never-ending Perpetual license to our customers
• Superior customer service
• Built by gamers
• All wireless accessories
• Online Community
• Open Multi-player
• No porting necessary
• Advanced Hardware Architecture
• Secure Delivery
2.2 Impact of Broadband
How many households will have broadband gaming access?
â€¢ï€ ï€ Higher speed broadband connections are expected to significantly improve the online entertainment experience from the consumer perspective.
â€¢ï€ ï€ It has already been shown that broadband users spend significantly more time onlineï€ than
narrowband users.
â€¢ï€ ï€ Broadband connections allow for the delivery of rich media, which could significantly increase advertising possibilities.
â€¢ï€ ï€ DFC Intelligence forecasts that 37.4 million U.S. households will have some form of broadband access by 2006.
Changing Distribution Channels
â€¢ï€ ï€ Traditional distribution channels are overcrowded with too much product and not enough shelf space. Increasingly, only large publishers have access to retail distribution. New interest in older distribution methods, such as affiliate label programs, offers an option for small developers. However, many emerging companies are betting that the best chance for success will be to explore new, or alternate, channels of distribution. Alternate channels include e-commerce, shareware, mail order, bundling and non-traditional retail.
â€¢ï€ ï€ Networks, online services and other forms of electronic distribution have the potential to provide new sources of revenue and new channels for distribution. Networks can be used to provide product samples, deliver complete products, or as a way to play multiplayer games. One of the most important alternative channel developments has been digital distribution, the sale and/or rental of software over networks. Examples include Electronic Software Distribution (ESD) as done by ReleaseNow, Digital River, RealNetworks’ RealArcade, cable video game subscription services, such as the discontinued Sega Channel, and limited edition digital objects (LEDOs), such as those pioneered by SegaSoft and Genetic Anomalies.
â€¢ï€ ï€ New distribution channels will expand the market, but it is unlikely that they will destroy the importance of existing retail channels. This is true even for games that can only be played online. The only exception is likely to be free, advertiser supported games which can easily be distributed online.
â€¢ï€ ï€ As new distribution channels emerge, it may shift the power structure and make the market more efficient. The growth of more distribution opportunities will not necessarily lower distribution costs.
â€¢ï€ ï€ With the expected penetration of cable modems and other high bandwidth devices, a significant up tick in digital distribution for both game sales and rentals can be expected.
Consumer Awareness
â€¢ï€ ï€ In our discussions with industry insiders, almost everyone seemed to believe that online games
would be very attractive to a large number of consumers because they allow people to compete and socialize with other humans instead of against a machine. There were many respondents that felt that the social aspects of online games would revolutionize leisure time as we know it.
â€¢ï€ ï€ The most popular buzzword is “community.â€? Online allows people to form their own communities with other people that share similar interests. Companies can develop online games with strong community aspects. This will allow online game companies to build strong affinity relationships with customers that could last for years.
â€¢ï€ ï€ In the past, consumers have spent a great deal of time and money on traditional video games
and computer games. This would seem to indicate that if online games can improve on the “entire game experience,� consumers should be willing to spend significant amounts of money and time on online games.
â€¢ï€ ï€ To many traditional game publishers, the main attraction of the online world may be as a supplement to existing boxed games. People may not spend much time playing others online, but online could become a crucial component of all existing games as players use the online services to compare scores, swap hints, learn about new products, download new levels and build closer affinity relationships with the game publishers.
â€¢ï€ ï€ A possible silver lining in the clouds is that even given today’s expensive, difficult to use and unreliable service, a substantial percentage of consumers are willing to spend significant money and time using interactive products. If the products become easier to use and offer high quality content, it can only be imagined how many new users will come on board.
Reaction from Traditional Retail Channel
â€¢ï€ ï€ Retailers are naturally very skeptical of online games because they threaten to cut into their traditional sales of boxed games.
â€¢ï€ ï€ It is likely that retailers could really benefit from the online game industry as products that are accessed online are still sold at retail. However, it may take awhile before retailers truly learn to support online games.
2.3 State of Online Games
Overview
â€¢ï€ ï€ There is a $20 billion a year worldwide market for video games and computer games.
â€¢ï€ ï€ The majority of traditional video games have focused on a human competing against the computer.
â€¢ï€ ï€ Traditional video games are expensive products that have been sold in boxes at retail.
â€¢ï€ ï€ Online games add a new dimension to game play by introducing a social aspect and allowing human versus human competition on a mass scale.
â€¢ï€ ï€ Online games also significantly expand the business model and distribution paradigms for interactive entertainment.
â€¢ï€ ï€ Online games are not likely to replace single -player games. A major attraction of traditional video games is solitaire play.
â€¢ï€ ï€ Several online games are starting to earn revenue comparable to retail games.
What is Online Entertainment?
Online entertainment uses networked computer technology to create a shared game experience for two or more consumers or uses the network to distribute content to a single -player. “Online entertainment� changes the computer-based game paradigm from man against machine to man against man, adding a socialization element to the entertainment experience. Online entertainment creates a new paradigm in the world of computer entertainment, challenging fundamental assumptions about design, markets and even distribution solutions. The optimistic vision is that online entertainment will create a viable mass-market audience through a synergy of rich sensory stimulation, socialization and the cognitive challenges of puzzles and games.
For most people past their 40’s, the notion of “game� brings to mind a social activity. Whether it is a sport, a board game or a card game, games are as much about social dynamics and emotional dialog as they are about the specific rules of play. However, ask someone raised with a personal computer or video game if they want to play a game and they may well respond, “Sure, but what are you going to do?� For them, games are as often as not a solitary activity, played between themselves and a computer-controlled opponent.
The dominance of the single -player aesthetic of computer-based games arose from the technical limitations of early home computer hardware. Ironically, some of the earliest computer games involved multiple players using networked terminals in university computer labs. The earliest personal computers and home video game console systems, however, lacked the communications gear needed to let game players share a common game environment by connecting two or more machines. Indeed, even today, the marketing practices of video game console manufacturers foster a relative environment where solo play is at the forefront of a game designer’s intention: most game consoles charge consumers for the second controller.
However, many of the best-selling video games have been multiplayer products like EA’s Madden football and Nintendo’s Mario Party series. The successes of multiplayer games in the console arena affirm the assumption that socialization is a powerful lure in entertainment experiences. While not online entertainment per se, the social nature of multiplayer games, as well as the earliest massive market acceptance of multiplayer designs is to be found in console -based designs, particularly fighting and sports games. Despite these successes, multiplayer games still generate fewer hours of screen time than stand alone games. The most obvious reason is that finding two players in the same household willing to play at the same time is more difficult than sitting down and turning on a computer opponent.
Online entertainment stands in direct contrast to many of the established genres of entertainment software. In online entertainment, games are almost always played between two or more players using two or more computers that are connected. The hardware comes in a variety of forms, from a pair of video game consoles in the same living room, to large simulated online worlds inhabited concurrently by literally thousands of players via the Internet. In a sense, the “new� field of online entertainment isn’t new at all. Developers of online entertainment are simply taking a ‘back to the future approach,’ creating games that are once again a social, rather than a solitary, activity.
The Market Niches Today
The online game market today is distinguished by three distinct niches:
â€¢ï€ ï€ â€œCommodityâ€? games: Simple games designed for a mass-market audience and generally free to play. Revenue is expected to come from advertising support.
â€¢ï€ ï€ Retail Hybrids: These games are bought in a box at retail and can then be played online for free.
â€¢ï€ ï€ Monthly Subscription Games: So far, individual games that can command a subscription fall into one category, online-only massively multiplayer persistent world games or MMOGs for short. These games are bought at retail for $20 to $50 and then require a $10 monthly subscription fee to play online.
General Online Population
The growth in the online game market, of course, depends on a growing base of consumers with online access.
â€¢ï€ ï€ Online access is starting to become a standard for household PCs. Research from Odyssey shows that by July of 1999, online access accounted for 53% of PC usage time.
â€¢ï€ ï€ By 2005 it is expected that nearly all households with a PC will also be online.
â€¢ï€ ï€ Currently, the U.S. is far ahead in terms of Internet access with about 40% of all online households. Over 50% of U.S. households have online access.
â€¢ï€ ï€ Online access in North America is expected to grow 27% between 2001 and 2006 to 68.5 million PC households.
â€¢ï€ ï€ Europe and Asia are expected to be the fastest growing markets for online access. The number of households in Europe with PC online access is expected to grow 37% between 2001 and 2006 to 65 million households. The number of households in Asia with PC online access is expected to grow 8% between 2001 and 2006 to 57 million households.
â€¢ï€ ï€ Online games are already a major activity for households with online access (see charts). However, online game usage is much higher in the U.S. than other countries.
2.4 Forecasts
Total N. American Online PC HHs (Households) 1999-2006 Chart
Total Europe Online PC HHs 2000-2006
Total Worldwide Online PC HHs 2000-2006
Broadband vs Narrowband Forecasts
The growth of households with high-speed “broadband� connections to the Internet is expected to grow significantly over the next several years. In short, increasing broadband connectivity will have several implications for the online game market:
â€¢ï€ ï€ Always-on, high-speed connections make it much easier to get into and start a game.
â€¢ï€ ï€ Broadband is a big improvement for casual games and the mass-market gamer.
â€¢ï€ ï€ Broadband opens up more potential for advertising and rich media.
â€¢ï€ ï€ Broadband growth has been fairly strong and has equaled or exceeded past estimates.
Total North America Broadband PC HHs 1999-2006
N. America PC Narrowband vs. Broadband HHs 1999-2006
N. American HH PC Broadband Penetration by Type 1999-2006
N. America HH PC Broadband by Type 1999-2006
Video Game Console Hardware Forecast
The next generation of video game machines will have the ability to go online. The 128-bit Sega Dreamcast was the first video game machine to have a major online focus. However, in early 2001, Sega announced they would no longer manufacture the Dreamcast. Despite this, the new game systems coming on the market will allow for online game applications. The following chart shows combined U.S. forecasts for the Sega Dreamcast, the Sony PlayStation 2 (released in the U.S. in 10/00), the Microsoft X-Box (released in the U.S. in November 2001) and the Nintendo GameCube (released in the U.S. in November 2001).
The U.S. is expected to be about 50% of the worldwide market.
U.S. 128-Bit Hardware Forecasts 1999-2006
Forecasts for U.S. 128-Bit Hardware Installed Base
Forecast for Online Gamer Population
It is proven that consumers like to play interactive entertainment. In the U.S., over 40% of households have a video game console system and it is estimated that over 100 million people play video or computer games. There are not nearly as many people that play online games, however this is expected to change significantly over the next few years. In the long-term, it is expected that the number of online gamers will exceed the number of people that currently play traditional video and PC games.
In terms of the number of online gamers, North America is far ahead of the rest of the world. Of course, the U.S. accounts for the bulk of North American usage. There are a number of differences between the U.S. and the rest of the world:
â€¢ï€ ï€ The U.S. is one fairly unified market with a common language. Europe, Asia and the rest of the world consist of many diverse markets with different customs and languages.
â€¢ï€ ï€ The U.S. has fairly mature Internet penetration and a sophisticated user base. In the rest of the world, the focus is more on building the infrastructure and basic access. Much of the Internet growth in the rest of the world will be in the area of infrastructure. The delivery of content such as online games tends to trail the building of infrastructure by several years.
Forecasts for the number of online gamers
These forecasts are broken down by type of gamer (hard-core, moderate, casual), platform (PC, console) and region of the world (North America, Europe, Rest of World). The forecasts are through 2005.
â€¢ï€ ï€ The total overall number of online gamers worldwide is expected to increase 155% from 2001 to 2006 to 113.9 million.
â€¢ï€ Console online games are a new market and it is expected that the period from 2001 to 2006 will be an infrastructure building phase where the focus will be on educating consumers and experimenting to see what works.
â€¢ï€ ï€ The console online gamer is expected to attract a large portion of moderate and hard-core gamers and not a significant number of casual gamers. To play online console games between now and 2006 a consumer would almost, by definition have to be a moderate or hard-core gamer.
â€¢ï€ ï€ North America is expected to be the largest market for online gamers. The number of PC online gamers is expected to be up 67% between 2001 and 2006 to 48 million. Another 14 million console online gamers are forecasted.
â€¢ï€ ï€ In Europe, the number of PC online gamers is expected to grow 134% to 20.8 million by 2006. There is forecasted to be a smaller base of 3.7 million online console gamers.
â€¢ï€ ï€ In Asia and the rest of the world, the number of PC online gamers is expected to grow 197% to 19.9 million by 2006. There is forecasted to be a solid base of 5.6 million online console gamers. There is also a significant base of users that access online games from outside the home and they are not included in these forecasts.
â€¢ï€ ï€ The number of console online gamers in Japan and Europe could be much bigger than we forecasted. Currently, we are assuming that companies building console online games will focus on North America first and will not focus on the rest of the world until they learn what works in the North American market. However, this is our biggest area of uncertainty, there is some indication that there may be a big focus on console online games in Asia and therefore our estimates would be on the low end.
â€¢ï€ ï€ DFC Intelligence forecasts the biggest growth area to be for moderate and hard-core gamers. The number of hard-core online gamers, as a percentage of total online gamers, is expected to grow substantially from now to 2006. In 2006, it forecasted that the market will consist of 9% hard-core gamers, 28% moderate gamers and 63% casual gamers.
N. America Console Online Gamers 2000-2006
N. America Console Online Gamers 2000-2006
Total N. America Online Gamers 2000-2006
N. America Total Online Gamers 2000-2006
Total Europe Console Online Gamers 2000-2006
Europe Console Online Gamers 2000-2006
Total Europe Online Gamers 2000-2006
Total Europe Online Gamers 2000-2006
Total Worldwide Console Online Gamers 2000-2006
Worldwide Console Online Gamers 2000-2006
Total Worldwide Online Gamers 2000-2006
Total Worldwide Online Gamers 2000-2006
Forecasts for Online Game Hours of Usage 2000-2006
This section has forecasts for the number of hours consumers are likely to spend playing online games. This is something that has never been tracked in the traditional retail based game business. However, for online games the usage metric is extremely important, because, like with television and radio, usage will be a major determinant of both industry revenue and industry expenses. In the traditional video game business, companies did not care a great deal about hours of usage because once a consumer had bought a product at retail they could use it as much as they liked without it generating additional revenue (not including add-ons and sequels). The forecasts are presented for number of annual hours of online game usage. These forecasts are broken down by type of gamer (hard-core, moderate, casual) and platform (PC, console).
â€¢ï€ ï€ More and more people will spend time playing online games.
â€¢ï€ ï€ Usage for moderate gamers is expected to have the highest growth rate. From 2000 to 2006 we forecast that average weekly usage will go from 3 to 5 hours a week. This figure could grow significantly higher beyond that timeframe. Share of usage for moderate gamers is forecasted to grow from 22% in 2000 to 47% in 2006.
â€¢ï€ ï€ Usage from casual gamers is expected to grow on a steady pace, from 1 hour a week in 2000 to 2.5 hours a week in 2006. Overall share of usage is expected to decline from 59% in 2000 to 28% in 2006.
â€¢ï€ ï€ With hard-core gamers, there is not much room for average usage growth. These consumers already play a lot and there are only so many hours a day. Hard-core gamers spend an average of 10 hours a week playing online games. Their market share of usage is expected to increase from 19% in 2000 to 25% in 2006.
Console Online Gamer Hours of Use 2000-2006
Console Online Game Hours 2000-2006
Console Online Game Hrs of Use by Consumer Type 2006
Total Online Gamers Hours of Use 2000-2006
Total Online Game Hours 2000-2006
Total Online Gamers Hours of Use 2000-2006
Online Game Hrs of Use PC vs Console
Consumer Payment: Most Likely Market Scenario
Console Online Gamer Pay Revenue 2000-2006
Console Online Game Pay Revenue 2000-2006
Total Online Gamer Pay Revenue 2000-2006
Total Online Game Pay Revenue 2000-2006
Online Game Pay Revenue by Consumer Type
Online Game Advertising Revenue 2000-2006
Advertising revenue figures also include sponsorship and e-commerce revenue.
Advertising Revenue: Most Likely Market Scenario
Console Online Gamer Ad Revenue 2000-2006
Console Online Game Ad Revenue 2000-2006
Total Online Gamer Ad Revenue 2000-2006
Total Online Game Ad Revenue 2000-2006
Well, that's certainly a mouthful of information. Maybe it will help give these people who have been nickle and diming your product to death, more to chew on.
Is there a certain number of titles that will be included in the $9.95 per mo. and then additional charges for premium titles?
Is there a certain number of titles that will be included in the $9.95 per mo. and then additional charges for premium titles?
Re:These cats are sharp, tidbits from them i acqur
Posted by: Anonymous Coward on August 25, 2003 03:34 AM
First of all this is a change in rhetoric, the first article described the system as being for young children and families who weren't hardcore gamers. So now you've changed your desired market, also nevermind that it seems the moderate to hard-core gamers are the ones with serious doubts about this. More to the point since I have to pay to download anything over a demo, and this is basically a mini PC without the functionality that goes with one, I don't see the point. Why do I need another PC with a lot of games I don't want that I have to download for 8 hours just to play the few games I do want. It doesn't work as a PC and it's too goofy to be a console.
Even if you ignore the CEO's (more than slightly) shaddy past of poor desicions and failed ventures, this is a bad idea. I can buy a PC game and play it online without the aditional 9.95 a month cost now, furthermore even if you make tens of thousands of titles available your average gamer won't be able to get use out of more than 2 or 3 a month. So having the tens of thousands of extra titles does very little. Furthermore the retail stores only stock the better games, the ones that no one likes/buys don't get stocked, but even if they were no one would buy them. Having a wide selection doesn't change anything if people only play a couple of those titles. Next you have security issues which will be almost impossible to prevent craking, pirating or various other means of spoofing the system.
Next you can't be sure that this company is even real, read this taken from http://Penny-Arcade.com,
"It really comes down to this: is it a hoax, or are the forces involved in making this system absolutely inept? I'd call that six of one or a half dozen of the other.
Anybody tried to actually submit ther information on the pre-registration screen? It's not a button, it's just a sort vestigial nub with no function.
An interesting mail from Josh Parker, Private Eye:
In my amazing boredom, I researched the status of these trademarks on , but could find no record of either being trademarked. I tried various search methods, never did I see the slogan or the name Phantom trademarked by Infium Labs.
Uh, yeah. Might want to get one of them trademark things.
Steve from HardOCP dropped the following science on me yesterday:
We had a reader go by Infinium Labs and take pictures of their "facility" ( that's when we found out it was a strip mall in the Florida Keys ) only to find out it was a single desk in a 100 x 100ft room with two phones and no furniture. That was about 4 months ago.
I talked to the Tim Roberts guy on the phone when he returned my call ( 22 days after I left a message ) and when I asked him about all this...he HUNG UP ON ME. I asked him if he was looking for investors, he said "We are actively recruiting investors". I asked him if they had any consoles on hand, he said "We have several hundred prototype models here in the office". So then I asked him where the prototypes were made, he said "right here in our facility". Then I told him I had seen his 100ft x 100ft office space conveinently located next to Missing Link Art Gallery in the strip mall ( located at 5380 Gulf of Mexico Dr. Longboat Key, Fl 34228 ) and he went NUTS!!! "WHO THE FUCK IS THIS!?!?! BLAH BLAH I'LL SUE YOU". "
So there is a fare amount of indication that this doesn't really exist, and if it does then boy is it being handeld poorly. I have never heard of a company not registering its trademarks, and if they haven't it speaks negatively of the comapnies compatence or belief that its product will succeed. While stranger things have happened I would be shocked if the Phantom (assumming its real) sells at all. It fits no markets well but manages to kind of stradle the fences of many, and the only people who seem to speak positively about it aren't the ones to whom it is being marketed.
And I wouldn't call a 2 gig box with a broadband connetion state of the art.
Even if you ignore the CEO's (more than slightly) shaddy past of poor desicions and failed ventures, this is a bad idea. I can buy a PC game and play it online without the aditional 9.95 a month cost now, furthermore even if you make tens of thousands of titles available your average gamer won't be able to get use out of more than 2 or 3 a month. So having the tens of thousands of extra titles does very little. Furthermore the retail stores only stock the better games, the ones that no one likes/buys don't get stocked, but even if they were no one would buy them. Having a wide selection doesn't change anything if people only play a couple of those titles. Next you have security issues which will be almost impossible to prevent craking, pirating or various other means of spoofing the system.
Next you can't be sure that this company is even real, read this taken from http://Penny-Arcade.com,
"It really comes down to this: is it a hoax, or are the forces involved in making this system absolutely inept? I'd call that six of one or a half dozen of the other.
Anybody tried to actually submit ther information on the pre-registration screen? It's not a button, it's just a sort vestigial nub with no function.
An interesting mail from Josh Parker, Private Eye:
In my amazing boredom, I researched the status of these trademarks on , but could find no record of either being trademarked. I tried various search methods, never did I see the slogan or the name Phantom trademarked by Infium Labs.
Uh, yeah. Might want to get one of them trademark things.
Steve from HardOCP dropped the following science on me yesterday:
We had a reader go by Infinium Labs and take pictures of their "facility" ( that's when we found out it was a strip mall in the Florida Keys ) only to find out it was a single desk in a 100 x 100ft room with two phones and no furniture. That was about 4 months ago.
I talked to the Tim Roberts guy on the phone when he returned my call ( 22 days after I left a message ) and when I asked him about all this...he HUNG UP ON ME. I asked him if he was looking for investors, he said "We are actively recruiting investors". I asked him if they had any consoles on hand, he said "We have several hundred prototype models here in the office". So then I asked him where the prototypes were made, he said "right here in our facility". Then I told him I had seen his 100ft x 100ft office space conveinently located next to Missing Link Art Gallery in the strip mall ( located at 5380 Gulf of Mexico Dr. Longboat Key, Fl 34228 ) and he went NUTS!!! "WHO THE FUCK IS THIS!?!?! BLAH BLAH I'LL SUE YOU". "
So there is a fare amount of indication that this doesn't really exist, and if it does then boy is it being handeld poorly. I have never heard of a company not registering its trademarks, and if they haven't it speaks negatively of the comapnies compatence or belief that its product will succeed. While stranger things have happened I would be shocked if the Phantom (assumming its real) sells at all. It fits no markets well but manages to kind of stradle the fences of many, and the only people who seem to speak positively about it aren't the ones to whom it is being marketed.
And I wouldn't call a 2 gig box with a broadband connetion state of the art.
Re:These cats are sharp, tidbits from them i acqur
Posted by: Anonymous Coward on August 25, 2003 06:08 PM
Wow, what an amazing amount of statistics.
Too bad it doesn't mean a god damned thing.
We get it, there will be more online players, you said that abou sixty times, it doesn't mean they'll use your product, why would they? There are already services that offer what you do (although not as much as you say you will) that any Joe Blow can use with his computer, without buying the 400 dollar one use console or the 10 bucks a month. By the time your Phantom menace (god that was terrible) comes out, their services will probably have gotten even better. Quite frankly, your playing against all odds with your hardware, which, by the way, will soon be obsolete. What happens then? Another gigantic charge for another console just so you can pay the same fees to redownload your games AGAIN? This idea is ludicrous! Noone will buy your service. You will fail. End of story.
Too bad it doesn't mean a god damned thing.
We get it, there will be more online players, you said that abou sixty times, it doesn't mean they'll use your product, why would they? There are already services that offer what you do (although not as much as you say you will) that any Joe Blow can use with his computer, without buying the 400 dollar one use console or the 10 bucks a month. By the time your Phantom menace (god that was terrible) comes out, their services will probably have gotten even better. Quite frankly, your playing against all odds with your hardware, which, by the way, will soon be obsolete. What happens then? Another gigantic charge for another console just so you can pay the same fees to redownload your games AGAIN? This idea is ludicrous! Noone will buy your service. You will fail. End of story.
Wow, I'm impressed by your ability to compile market research data. Of course you didn't mention a single thing that your product will offer, the fact that you don't even have a release date or a picture of an actual console will probably put you behind PS3, XBOX2 and N5.
You wasted this opportunity to explain many of the questions that were raised about what your system offers, but instead spouted out pages of survey data. I note that you provided some specifications for your system now on your site, this is good. Though it does not explain your actual service structure nor does explain how will you figure technical support.
Esentially you've given us a junk computer with no optical media capability whatsoever. Now, if I put this all together from pricewatch right, just the Mobo/CPU would set me back about $400, the memory throws in another $90 or so, the HDD $100, but then it isn't going to be able to work so well because of a low RPM (probably what, less than 5,200). Let's say you went with the NVIDIA geforce fx 5900 with the 128MB of memory, that's $250. Add in the wireless mouse and keyboard you get another 50 dollars. Then the OS is probably another $100 on top of it all, so you've got a cute $1000 system without counting the case or the wireless controllers. Sure, you might get a bulk rate, so we'll call it $600 (all in USD).
Now, really, you can buy a real computer for $600, store on it whatever you want, keep your own games, use your old games, and generally have a ball. Add to this the fact that a subscription service would be around what, ten or fifteen dollars a month? So in addition to internet costs, they're paying another $180 a year to play some fun little games (because your target market isn't the hardcore gamer, all of your market speak would indicate the casual player). Most casual gamers don't drop near that much a year on games, a lot of that stuff can be downloaded as freeware on the internet and your windows computer comes with solitaire.
You wasted this opportunity to explain many of the questions that were raised about what your system offers, but instead spouted out pages of survey data. I note that you provided some specifications for your system now on your site, this is good. Though it does not explain your actual service structure nor does explain how will you figure technical support.
Esentially you've given us a junk computer with no optical media capability whatsoever. Now, if I put this all together from pricewatch right, just the Mobo/CPU would set me back about $400, the memory throws in another $90 or so, the HDD $100, but then it isn't going to be able to work so well because of a low RPM (probably what, less than 5,200). Let's say you went with the NVIDIA geforce fx 5900 with the 128MB of memory, that's $250. Add in the wireless mouse and keyboard you get another 50 dollars. Then the OS is probably another $100 on top of it all, so you've got a cute $1000 system without counting the case or the wireless controllers. Sure, you might get a bulk rate, so we'll call it $600 (all in USD).
Now, really, you can buy a real computer for $600, store on it whatever you want, keep your own games, use your old games, and generally have a ball. Add to this the fact that a subscription service would be around what, ten or fifteen dollars a month? So in addition to internet costs, they're paying another $180 a year to play some fun little games (because your target market isn't the hardcore gamer, all of your market speak would indicate the casual player). Most casual gamers don't drop near that much a year on games, a lot of that stuff can be downloaded as freeware on the internet and your windows computer comes with solitaire.
I'v heard that behing this console stay Intel and nVidia.If is that fact correct,then i think that will be good beginning of this console-killer.If not,then i wish them luck and live long and prosper in McDonald like bartender<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)
In what state does McDonald's have bartendars?
Well, in some countries McDonald's DOES serve alcohol....<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:D
Don't worry, if their protection against modification of the device that people own, they will be sadly mistaken, their protection will be broken soon after it's release, I can promise you that, and with XBOX (soon xbox2) and PS2 (and soon PS3 maybe) there won't be much room for another console, especially not one from a no-name company.
Since I regularly rip the technical inaccuracies and near paranoid tones of Roblimo's usual articles I feel a little bit of praise is due. This one you've got right. This is a big piece of DRM and this is likely to succeed, assuming that is that the numbers are off somewhat because that is a hell of a lot of subscribers for a console. That said this is just more of the you can't buy my stuff, you only rent it plague that went around with DVDs. Until they learn that you can't get blood from a turnip media producers with stifle the market for the sake short term gains and in the long term cripple or kill any interest in their products. The media producers who are the first to take the approach of making more product rather than spending their money attacking the legitimate users (i.e. paying customers not the p2p theives...yeah I said it) under the guise of fighting priacy adn protecting existing product are the ones that stand to win.
Good job Roblimo
Good job Roblimo
This is a good concept but then look at the reality of the world, Bad economy will make says slump, Then there is the issue the XBOX and PS2 both off extra features to there system like a DVD player, So if you don't use it to play games all the time the family or the individual could watch a movie, The let's take a look at the fact that XBOX cost more to make then it cost consumers. Oh and the fact people are already saving for the Next Sony Playstation or XBOX and these systems will offer allot with them, Then of course, you have to look at the fact this system will only work with Broadband, SO if you don't have it You won't buy this system, OH and let's not forget if this system is build like XP or a PC it's still not a secure system and there are multiple problems that can plague this system. This is a lose lose project, unless and just incase the units are built so they can have hardware added, like a CD-ROM (even better a DVD so it won’t collect dust) which would allow them to change over to none internet games. The one thing that Makes Sony Playstation the best is the fact it comes with allot and you can buy a lot of game and accessories and some things your not suppose to do. But hey it's a free country and MODDING and Changes are good things unless you live in a communist country where you can only due what you are told... Oh and by the way nothing is 100% hack proof it just makes us try a little harder..
Look, while players would love to have all their favorite games cost nothing, it is not realistic. Developers design games to sell and make a profit.
And, believe it or not, while it appears that game developers are making money hand over fist with their increases in retail pricing, their actual profit margin is shrinking. What exists in the gaming market today is a divided pricing system.
AAA titles costing $5 to $10 million dollars to develop have a retail price of $40 and above and will only increase as the market demands more intricate and sophisticated design and programming. Marketing and packaging costs are on the rise as well, which influences the retail price and cuts into the developer's profit. Less expensive titles (under the $40 level), while not costing as much to make, still have high marketing and packaging costs.
Console titles have a better handle on the marketing costs, because they have a marketing network in place and hail from larger corporations whom can get better ad placement deals based on volume insertions with other products they manufacture. However, they still have a hungry player appetite to feed and still face the rising costs of developing more sophisticated games.
Who loses? You, the player who wants the coolest stuff for the lowest price. Prices are only going to increase more and more through the current distribution system.
On top of all of that, there are limited amounts of shelf-space. Retail outlets cannot carry all the titles on the market, so in a way, you, as the player, are getting cheated out of the entire inventory of actual available titles. Instead, you have to either hunt-for or stumble upon other titles.
Phantom's strategy, at least from what I've been reading, seems to address this rising cost problem in a very real fashion. And, allows players to have a far bigger selection from one location. Players win.
Imagine if you were a manufacturer and you could cut your marketing costs in half and eliminate packaging completely. Question: How much money would you be saving? Answer: Hundreds of thousands. What would you do with the extra money? Well, either put it in your shareholders pockets or try and beat your competitor by putting more into design. Players win again.
Phantom is a system that will save you money in the long run. Not cost you more.
And, believe it or not, while it appears that game developers are making money hand over fist with their increases in retail pricing, their actual profit margin is shrinking. What exists in the gaming market today is a divided pricing system.
AAA titles costing $5 to $10 million dollars to develop have a retail price of $40 and above and will only increase as the market demands more intricate and sophisticated design and programming. Marketing and packaging costs are on the rise as well, which influences the retail price and cuts into the developer's profit. Less expensive titles (under the $40 level), while not costing as much to make, still have high marketing and packaging costs.
Console titles have a better handle on the marketing costs, because they have a marketing network in place and hail from larger corporations whom can get better ad placement deals based on volume insertions with other products they manufacture. However, they still have a hungry player appetite to feed and still face the rising costs of developing more sophisticated games.
Who loses? You, the player who wants the coolest stuff for the lowest price. Prices are only going to increase more and more through the current distribution system.
On top of all of that, there are limited amounts of shelf-space. Retail outlets cannot carry all the titles on the market, so in a way, you, as the player, are getting cheated out of the entire inventory of actual available titles. Instead, you have to either hunt-for or stumble upon other titles.
Phantom's strategy, at least from what I've been reading, seems to address this rising cost problem in a very real fashion. And, allows players to have a far bigger selection from one location. Players win.
Imagine if you were a manufacturer and you could cut your marketing costs in half and eliminate packaging completely. Question: How much money would you be saving? Answer: Hundreds of thousands. What would you do with the extra money? Well, either put it in your shareholders pockets or try and beat your competitor by putting more into design. Players win again.
Phantom is a system that will save you money in the long run. Not cost you more.
Remember Divx set top boxes from way back? how long did that uncrackable encryption last?
http://himself.blogspot.com
http://himself.blogspot.com
DIVX used a different, and more advanced, encryption system than DVD. That encryption was never cracked. If you find a DIVX disc today, it's only good as a coaster, since DIVX players won't decode them anymore, and nobody else can.
Hmm.. lets think, what can we do with 400 dollars besides buy this piece of shit? Well, we can go out and buy a geforce 5900 (or radeon 9800, whichever you prefer) and you can download some warez games, and you are set. And for the bitches who are bitching about bitches bitching about it isn't going to work, um, let me tell ya, the little bitches are right. This isn't going to work. "Well what about Henry Ford?!" Hmm, just maybe he WAS IN THE RIGHT PLACE AT THE RIGHT TIME! NO one else was mass producing cars when he came out with the model t. Also, no one had ever seen anything like this. Well, hate to say it, but this is just like every other console, save it not having a working hard drive and it coming from a companycoming off the ground about to the height of the ends of Bill Gates' golf cleats. This CEO is whacko too. He has ruined so many companies, it's not funny. And a point on coveting. All people covet. It's in our blood. And it makes one feel special when they have something others don't. "Hey, I just downloaded this new game on my phantom!" "Oh, cool. (Click) Now I have it too!" just ruin the glory of it all. And if you are christian, it doesn't matter. We still covet too. It's against the rules, but we break them anyway, we are human. Did I miss anything? -
Re:What else you can do with 400 dollars....
Posted by: Anonymous Coward on August 24, 2003 02:31 AM
I like you! Attitude and sense together.
The idea ISN'T original. I mean it's just a computer in a box! Online game play is nothing new! I have a decent computer, a nice geforce card. I'll save my 400 bucks and 10+ a month to go towards kickass games in a box. That will eventually spawn mods. Or a great MMORPG like Asheron's Call 2 or World of Warcrack. Craft.
*shrug* I just don't really see this as being truly inovative or appealing. Hardcore gamers already have a good computer running broadband and a console or three.
I find it hard to believe casual gamers will pay that much for "not having to leave your home." Please. Casual gamers aren't that socialy inept.
~Grant
The idea ISN'T original. I mean it's just a computer in a box! Online game play is nothing new! I have a decent computer, a nice geforce card. I'll save my 400 bucks and 10+ a month to go towards kickass games in a box. That will eventually spawn mods. Or a great MMORPG like Asheron's Call 2 or World of Warcrack. Craft.
*shrug* I just don't really see this as being truly inovative or appealing. Hardcore gamers already have a good computer running broadband and a console or three.
I find it hard to believe casual gamers will pay that much for "not having to leave your home." Please. Casual gamers aren't that socialy inept.
~Grant
I'm the consumer.
I buy an Amazon PC for $400 that only connects to Amazon's website.
I pay $9.95 to browse their server and read the first couple dozen pages of their books.
If I buy a book, it's downloaded to my Amazon PC.
I can only read the book on the Amazon PC, of course.
I can't load other books onto my Amazon PC.
After reading the book, I can not lend it to a friend or take it to a used bookshop.
I'm a game developer.
I make maybe 20% of the retail price after it's all done.
My $50 game puts $10 in my pocket.
Advertising is unaffected since I will not make my game exclusively for Phantom. In fact, it's just another logo to add to my press kits.
Traditional pressing of CDs/DVDs still apply but not for the Phantom.
Do I save the customer money and charge $30?
How much does Infinium give me? If they give me too much, how do they make money?
Am I alienating my XBOX, PS2, PC gamers?
I'm a hardcore gamer/modder.
I need 3D Studio to create meshes. $?
I need PhotoShop to create textures. $?
I need sound/music software to create fx. $?
I want to back up all of my hard work onto CD if disaster strikes.
How much for the new video card so I can run the latest Doom?
I just don't see a compelling reason to purchase a $400 machine that is, as advertised, a Windows box when I can do all of the same things and more with my home PC.
Maybe I pay less for games but for a subscription based service, and to compete with the existing consoles, I'd think you'd want to put them out there at $100/unit.
Costs of having just the Phantom for 1st year:
$400 console
$120 subscription fees
$360 dsl/internet
I'm in for $880 the first year and don't yet have any premium content. Granted, a mere $480 after that.
Or you could have 17 $50 games for the PC you already own. After the first year, only 9 games.
I buy an Amazon PC for $400 that only connects to Amazon's website.
I pay $9.95 to browse their server and read the first couple dozen pages of their books.
If I buy a book, it's downloaded to my Amazon PC.
I can only read the book on the Amazon PC, of course.
I can't load other books onto my Amazon PC.
After reading the book, I can not lend it to a friend or take it to a used bookshop.
I'm a game developer.
I make maybe 20% of the retail price after it's all done.
My $50 game puts $10 in my pocket.
Advertising is unaffected since I will not make my game exclusively for Phantom. In fact, it's just another logo to add to my press kits.
Traditional pressing of CDs/DVDs still apply but not for the Phantom.
Do I save the customer money and charge $30?
How much does Infinium give me? If they give me too much, how do they make money?
Am I alienating my XBOX, PS2, PC gamers?
I'm a hardcore gamer/modder.
I need 3D Studio to create meshes. $?
I need PhotoShop to create textures. $?
I need sound/music software to create fx. $?
I want to back up all of my hard work onto CD if disaster strikes.
How much for the new video card so I can run the latest Doom?
I just don't see a compelling reason to purchase a $400 machine that is, as advertised, a Windows box when I can do all of the same things and more with my home PC.
Maybe I pay less for games but for a subscription based service, and to compete with the existing consoles, I'd think you'd want to put them out there at $100/unit.
Costs of having just the Phantom for 1st year:
$400 console
$120 subscription fees
$360 dsl/internet
I'm in for $880 the first year and don't yet have any premium content. Granted, a mere $480 after that.
Or you could have 17 $50 games for the PC you already own. After the first year, only 9 games.
It's a Windows box running an intel motherboard, what kind of gaming machine is that!? If you want gaming you go Linux, AMD and Nvidia, none of this office crap. Windows is for people that like crashes and instability, Intel is for people that like really expensive, yet crappy, hardware. Besides who want's to support Microsoft anyway? This is just another ploy to make Microsoft more money and leave consumers with a useless hunk of metal and silicon. www.dconstruck.com read the rant, this is bull.
Linux is a good gaming platform? Intel's procs more expensive then AMD's? Where am i?
Wow, you're just another Linux whore, huh? Do yo run your Mozilla on your Linux machine too?
There have been many failures for game machines over the years. The TurboGraphix (don't hate me TG fans, it's only an opinion), the Jaguar, the Saturn. And those are only the failures that did well enough so you could hear about them. The fundamental problem with this Phantom, is that it seems to be just that: a phantom.
The one "Killer App" that Tim Roberts can bring himself to even mention is Unreal. Unreal, another hint about the fact this thing will never exist. If you read Penny-Arcade then you'll have your doubts anyway, but just stop and think about it for a second. Everything about this smells like a scam. Like the kind you hear about with old people and credit card numbers. He already has 500 developers interested and was quoted on Penny-Arcade as saying there are several hundred prototypes already manufactured. How do you get interest from developers if there is no information about the system, we're ordinary people, not businesses and we think this thing is suspect. Most business would like to have some facts about a system before saying yes. And about the veritable multitude of prototypes.... The funny thing about prototypes is that there is normally only one or two.
I don't know, perhaps this will be the best system ever and everyone will buy it and then Tim Roberts will have enough money to buy out M$.
The one "Killer App" that Tim Roberts can bring himself to even mention is Unreal. Unreal, another hint about the fact this thing will never exist. If you read Penny-Arcade then you'll have your doubts anyway, but just stop and think about it for a second. Everything about this smells like a scam. Like the kind you hear about with old people and credit card numbers. He already has 500 developers interested and was quoted on Penny-Arcade as saying there are several hundred prototypes already manufactured. How do you get interest from developers if there is no information about the system, we're ordinary people, not businesses and we think this thing is suspect. Most business would like to have some facts about a system before saying yes. And about the veritable multitude of prototypes.... The funny thing about prototypes is that there is normally only one or two.
I don't know, perhaps this will be the best system ever and everyone will buy it and then Tim Roberts will have enough money to buy out M$.
Come on, guys. It's a COMUTER without the drives. Go buy yourself a PC.
hey if it is a good computer for cheap, just buy it and then strip it for parts<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:) but who knows if its gonna be, i doubt it, im not buying it unless it lasts for awhile and penny arcade loves it and praises it, i doubt i'd but it then, id rather build a kick ass pc for $600 and play half life 2 and doom3, but that is just me...
All right, this took a while, but translating all of the previous posts into english was a big problem.
Look, let's say that Iniam is trying to be like your cable company, you buy (lease practically) their box and get their content. If you want more than the basic package (which most people will because the basic package is chock full of crap and advertisements) then you pay a fee based on what kinds of content you want.
So, like the cable company, you have to lease out (in this case buy) their box, which is more expensive than the alternatives ($400 as compared to $150). You have no guarantee that this content will be around forever, your download speeds are limited by the speed of the local broadband. You can’t move your games around, even though it is Windows based, you can’t take the copy of half-life you bought (and which under the EULA allows you to make a backup copy for your own personal use) and transfer it to your laptop if you’re going out of town for the week and would really like to play the game.
Yes, there are lots of problems. It isn’t even that this kind of pay-per-play thing is new or innovative in the slightest bit. Sierra is considering a similar service that allows you to use your home PC, it’s a great idea, you don’t go out to the store, you can get all sorts of games on demand and you can go to bed and have it in the morning. Making a dedicated console with a high price and a target audience who would barely scratch the potential of the box is ridiculous. A better idea would be to have a slim device that you can hook up to your broadband, lower end equipment gets cheaper and smaller all of the time and if that’s what your target audience is going for anyway then by all means. Heck, you could probably make one for a hundred dollars, offer content like Tetris and Pinball games (heck even Solitaire and all of that freeware stuff) right with the box, and for a monthly fee you can stream some other cheap and kid friendly games, and for that fee they get to pick out a certain number of games they want to play per month. You could even sell it at Wal-Mart or whatever.
Really, Roberts sounds like nothing more than a snake-oil salesman. He’s presided over businesses that have fallen to the ground and in this has made it seem like he’s a financial mastermind. I hope that we can all see that this emperor has no clothes…
Ryan Richardson
Look, let's say that Iniam is trying to be like your cable company, you buy (lease practically) their box and get their content. If you want more than the basic package (which most people will because the basic package is chock full of crap and advertisements) then you pay a fee based on what kinds of content you want.
So, like the cable company, you have to lease out (in this case buy) their box, which is more expensive than the alternatives ($400 as compared to $150). You have no guarantee that this content will be around forever, your download speeds are limited by the speed of the local broadband. You can’t move your games around, even though it is Windows based, you can’t take the copy of half-life you bought (and which under the EULA allows you to make a backup copy for your own personal use) and transfer it to your laptop if you’re going out of town for the week and would really like to play the game.
Yes, there are lots of problems. It isn’t even that this kind of pay-per-play thing is new or innovative in the slightest bit. Sierra is considering a similar service that allows you to use your home PC, it’s a great idea, you don’t go out to the store, you can get all sorts of games on demand and you can go to bed and have it in the morning. Making a dedicated console with a high price and a target audience who would barely scratch the potential of the box is ridiculous. A better idea would be to have a slim device that you can hook up to your broadband, lower end equipment gets cheaper and smaller all of the time and if that’s what your target audience is going for anyway then by all means. Heck, you could probably make one for a hundred dollars, offer content like Tetris and Pinball games (heck even Solitaire and all of that freeware stuff) right with the box, and for a monthly fee you can stream some other cheap and kid friendly games, and for that fee they get to pick out a certain number of games they want to play per month. You could even sell it at Wal-Mart or whatever.
Really, Roberts sounds like nothing more than a snake-oil salesman. He’s presided over businesses that have fallen to the ground and in this has made it seem like he’s a financial mastermind. I hope that we can all see that this emperor has no clothes…
Ryan Richardson
Yeah, the Phantom's just a ton of hype and bulls**t. The "system" won't last a month, tops. I mean, if you're going to make a new gaming platform, do it right, dammit; don't just take a normal PC and put all sorts of security bullcrap on it! Heh, for now, I'll stick with my PS2 and Gamecube.
Ok, for the "game maker", the Phantom concept can be interesting, the company loose nothing. But all the advantage seems to be for the company and at the end, the consumer is the one deciding if he want to spent 400 bucks on the Phantom.
Why paying for downloading games and paying for using them? On the other gaming console you don't get this prob, you buy it, and you really possess it. And I'm not talking about the "I have the box" thing, it's simply about common sense. What happen if after I bought 10 games my Hard Drive broke? (it happens sometimes), I've lost all my games? Also you need to download them and it take a while.
Ok, a "real" retailer doesn't own all imaginable games, but who cares? I mean, the videogame industry is different from the cinema industry or music. In music you have a market for the "underground" music. It's true in both cinema and music that the "popular stuff" you can find everywhere aren't the best (normally they are the crappiest...). But in videogame it's different. The big majority of really good game come's from big company. There is no "underground" community in videogame, no one will pay for a game they never heared of. So the "thousand's of games" argument doesn't really mean something.
So, why bother buying a machine on the Internet who cost higher than the other consoles and you have to pay to use it instead of going to the nearest store and buy one of the three other consoles where you don't have to pay to use and where you don't have to worry if the online services will be down someday and so my machine too.
Why paying for downloading games and paying for using them? On the other gaming console you don't get this prob, you buy it, and you really possess it. And I'm not talking about the "I have the box" thing, it's simply about common sense. What happen if after I bought 10 games my Hard Drive broke? (it happens sometimes), I've lost all my games? Also you need to download them and it take a while.
Ok, a "real" retailer doesn't own all imaginable games, but who cares? I mean, the videogame industry is different from the cinema industry or music. In music you have a market for the "underground" music. It's true in both cinema and music that the "popular stuff" you can find everywhere aren't the best (normally they are the crappiest...). But in videogame it's different. The big majority of really good game come's from big company. There is no "underground" community in videogame, no one will pay for a game they never heared of. So the "thousand's of games" argument doesn't really mean something.
So, why bother buying a machine on the Internet who cost higher than the other consoles and you have to pay to use it instead of going to the nearest store and buy one of the three other consoles where you don't have to pay to use and where you don't have to worry if the online services will be down someday and so my machine too.
Basically the only things thing the phantom has going for it are convenience and variety. I watched that movie they released on their site, and while I was mostly unimpressed, one thing did catch my eye. For a couple seconds it showed a user interface with such options as "play demo," "buy game," and "game reviews." Now none of those options are terribly exciting, but then I thought about it in terms of what it would mean to the way you use your home console. If I could go onto my console, read reviews of ANY GAME AVAILABLE, then PLAY A DEMO of the game I'm interested, then if I like it I could buy it without heading down to the store. That's convenient...
And when it comes to the variety, to me that seems like it could be a huge draw. This is because, IMHO, 99.9% of games coming out these days SUCK ASS! Just my opinion, so don't bitch to me about it 'cause you won't change my mind. And it was mentioned before that there is no indie games scene. First of all, that's not true, you just can't find their games in stores 'cause they can't afford to pay for shelf space. Now for aspiring game developers, that is a HUGE issue. One of the reasons the indie game scene isn't bigger than it is, is there's no support. It's almost impossible for them to get their games out there for people to play. Now if you have the phantom, you could (hypothetically) search throught their reviews for a certain type of game that you're interested in. After reading the review, if you have any further interest in that game you can play a demo and maybe buy it. BAM! Money in the hands of smaller dev teams trying to do something original. You get exposed to potentially amazing games that you wouldn't have heard about otherwise. And because finally there's a potential for indie games to get market penetration (stop giggling) there are suddenly more people saying "Hey, I could do this..." and you have more people making more games. Now of course these games wouldn't have the high production values of the big releases, but they could be good games nonetheless. So everyone wins (except perhaps the big companies that constantly turn out sh*t).
Yeah that sounds wonderful... too bad it'd cost me a dumpload, I wouldn't get to own the games, I wouldn't get to mod the games I payed for... hell I couldn't even take a game I payed for to a friend's house so he could play it.
So while it has some upsides, you can bet that I won't be holding my breath waiting for the phantom to come out. And, funny thing, all of those good things I listed above can be accomplished on a WEBSITE. They already are, but the websites that are widely used nowadays don't show off the indie content as much as I'd like, because they're a business. Just like the stores, they have a limited amount of resources that determine which games they can cover. If, however, one of the console producing companies (Sony, Nintendo, and Microsoft) were to put this website up they could pour more resources into it which would allow it to cover the broad spectrum of games that are available for their systems. They could even offer the games on their site for order (to be mailed to consumers) at lower prices than retailers because they could reduce the licensing fee on the game. I mean because you're visiting their site, they get something out of it anyway (assuming their site has some sort of ad system, and it would). Anyway I've been going on for way too long, so...
Ok everone has val. points but I stick with the part of this is all B$ and someone is just thumping hteir chest and trying to make some cash off of suckers who want to become investers.
My thought is this what happens when Mr. or MS. Infinium product owner.When their Harddrive crashes or is shipped faulty and dies after several months of service. All these games that one has purchased is gone.
I don't care what kernal this thing is running off of nothing can prevent a HD crash or death of one.
I really doubt that Infinium Labs is going to track every purchase that their clients make for games.Then if they do who is going to inall them back on the machine... I know no one is going to want to sit for days and weeks trying to down load the games you bought then replay them and try to pick up where you last saved...
not only is their Business IDea full of B$ but the lack of info on how they will handle Hardware problems is really fishy too.
forgive the poor spelling and gram. I am to lazy to proof read this<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:P
My thought is this what happens when Mr. or MS. Infinium product owner.When their Harddrive crashes or is shipped faulty and dies after several months of service. All these games that one has purchased is gone.
I don't care what kernal this thing is running off of nothing can prevent a HD crash or death of one.
I really doubt that Infinium Labs is going to track every purchase that their clients make for games.Then if they do who is going to inall them back on the machine... I know no one is going to want to sit for days and weeks trying to down load the games you bought then replay them and try to pick up where you last saved...
not only is their Business IDea full of B$ but the lack of info on how they will handle Hardware problems is really fishy too.
forgive the poor spelling and gram. I am to lazy to proof read this<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:P
The company is a sham. The guys running it are con artists. Wake the hell up people. Drive by ol' 5380 Gulf of Mexico Dr. Longboat Key, Fl and take a look for yourself. I'd expect that a number of the blindly optimistic posts here are from the company officers themselves.
It's pathetic that Newsforge is even carrying this story. Yet another example of so-called journalists who blindly string as publicists for even the most bogus start-ups.
It's pathetic that Newsforge is even carrying this story. Yet another example of so-called journalists who blindly string as publicists for even the most bogus start-ups.
There is no reason to think that this box would not be hacked. Saying that it can not be will just make someone try that much harder. The new X-box can be hacked and it was supose to be unhackable as well. They say that the games are all stored on there surver. Thats true but for how long. Someone could just as easly set up there own server. After the system is hacked everyone will just get free games that much easer.
OK, so I could either spend £30 on a PC game or pay what, about £200 for a Phantom, then wait a couple of hours for a game to download, then when my Hardrdive is full id have to delete the games to play new ones?
Id feel worse about this if I didnt know th whole thing is a fake.
Id feel worse about this if I didnt know th whole thing is a fake.
What about viruses? It's running WinXP, afterall.
Posted by: Anonymous Coward on August 25, 2003 07:17 AM
So, if this machine is a real deal, then I wonder how long before someone writes a virus for it? I mean, just look at the Blaster/LoveSan virus, it used a bug in XP to infect computers. This won't be the last time a virus exploits a bug in XP, either. And since there's bound to be bugs in the security software as well... Well, you get the picture.
So I'm paying $9.95 a month to download games...
Posted by: Anonymous Coward on August 25, 2003 07:30 AM
So they claim they'll have this giant library of games. And I can download any of them, as long as I'm paying the subscription. (Or do you have to buy the games as well as pay the subscription? It's not too clear.) Well, if you compare this to the library of games that the PSX had, you'll notice something. Most of the games for the PSX sucked. They had 800+ games for it by the time the PS2 came out. I'd say only about 200 of those games where any good. The Phantom's game library will undoubtably have $hit games as well. If my subscription is paying for those bad games, then what's to stop that developer from coming out with more bad games? It wouldn't matter if I played it or not, I'd still be paying for it. If that's the model they want to use, forget it. It'll go the way Atari did back in the 80's.
Re:So I'm paying $9.95 a month to download games..
Posted by: Anonymous Coward on September 09, 2003 05:22 AM
If Infinium is trying to stay in business, they will keep track of what games are being played and which are being downloaded.
Infinium knows that crap games are worthless, especially when the console and subscription are dependent on customer satisfaction with the games.
So in turn Infinium will either terminate or non-renew contracts or business deals with developers that produce sub-par games. This will save Infinium money and urge developers to produce a higher quality of games for the service.
Either you did not think this through, or you have no business organization skills.
Infinium knows that crap games are worthless, especially when the console and subscription are dependent on customer satisfaction with the games.
So in turn Infinium will either terminate or non-renew contracts or business deals with developers that produce sub-par games. This will save Infinium money and urge developers to produce a higher quality of games for the service.
Either you did not think this through, or you have no business organization skills.
there's no way that this can be for real. Where are the advertisements for it? Even though they havent released a luanch date, the could atleast let people in on this. Maybe tell them that they will be paying 30 bucks a month to get everything that they want. I dont think that this thing can make it, if it is for real. I mean, check out the website (www.phantom.net). Doesnt look to professional. There's no info on it.
IT'S A HOAX
IT'S A HOAX
first off. What high-income homes do they think are going to go out and buy their kids this thing?
As for not being able to go our to the stores and buy any small children themed games. You are the internet security person. WOuldnt you just I dont know. Buy them online? Wouldnt all of those parents who read this article or know anything about this machine right now just do the same?
And as for hackers and their being only a possiblity of a few fringe people hacking the machine. Look at the 6 guys who put Linux on to the Xbox and how quickly that spread through out the net and into peoples Xboxs. And saying that its not possible is about the same as saying I dare you to try it you little punks. I see this company as being bankrupt within 6 months of product launch. I feel bad for the investors who look like they could only be about to loose alot of money on this joke.
I hope PennyArcade is correct and this is nothing but a hoax.
As for not being able to go our to the stores and buy any small children themed games. You are the internet security person. WOuldnt you just I dont know. Buy them online? Wouldnt all of those parents who read this article or know anything about this machine right now just do the same?
And as for hackers and their being only a possiblity of a few fringe people hacking the machine. Look at the 6 guys who put Linux on to the Xbox and how quickly that spread through out the net and into peoples Xboxs. And saying that its not possible is about the same as saying I dare you to try it you little punks. I see this company as being bankrupt within 6 months of product launch. I feel bad for the investors who look like they could only be about to loose alot of money on this joke.
I hope PennyArcade is correct and this is nothing but a hoax.
Nice Article...
Now it sounds even less real than last weekend when their 'unveiling' got cancelled - rofl!
Now it sounds even less real than last weekend when their 'unveiling' got cancelled - rofl!
Hmm, yep, they were conspicuously absent at E3 it seems.
Have you ever wanted to play Hexplore, Evasive Action (flight sim), Bad Dudes, Master of Magic, Daria's Inferno, Street Fighter, WrestleMania 64, Bonk's Adventure, Final Fight, Soul Blazer, Illusion of Gaia, or Terranigma? How about Castles 2, Bard's tale, King's quest, Dungeon Keeper, or Princess Maker? None of these games (with the exception of Dungeon Keeper- might be found at wal-mart in a 2cd case) are in production anymore. What does that mean? The publishers and developers aren't making any money off of them, and us gamers have one heck of a time finding them.
Then comes the Phantom.
With the Phantom, publishers can re-release old titles with little or no change in the game. If brokered right, Infinium could negotiate a lease of the license with the holders. This would put money back in the publisher's pocket and allow gamers to play old favorites or catch ones that they may have missed. Abandonware now becomes Phantomware. Why surf the net looking for hard to find and buggy emulators and ROMS when you can play then at will? Not to mention the fact that you can play both the original Wolfenstein and Return to Castle Wolfenstein, BurgerTime and Pizza Tycoon, and Baldur's Gate 1 & 2 and Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance on the same system.
So from a publisher/developer's standpoint:
(1)OS: XP or not, must be optimized for compatability.
(2)Hardware: Must either meet or surpass anything on the market today [consoles].
(3)Distribution: No packaging, old games available again, direct to consumers. Except for download times, this is impeccable. (Why not play another game while that what you want is downloading?)
(4)Development: Not having to port to 3 different platforms cuts down on expenses. Revenue received from old properties increases available budget. Resurgence of "retro-ware" (games focusing more on story and gameplay than graphics) allows for lower-budget games. Since the gamers are going to be able to access demos (in most cases) then development quality should be high.
(5)Revenue: Properly negotiated deals with Infinium lead to revenue generated with old titles. New releases are offered and sold, or "rented" (made available via premium service) with a negotiated amount going back to the publishers.
From a gamer's perspective:
(1)cost: base unit: $400 daunting. $300 viable. $200 optimal.
Service: same as DirectTV; depends on what you want.
(2)performance: must be at least as good if not better than anything currently available [console]
(3)games: cost- With retro games and "retro-ware" available with the cost of service, and since you can rent or buy new games the cost should be much less.
selection- old games + new games + new/revived developers (remember retro-ware and negotiated deals). The only thing missing is first party software from the big 3. I'm gonna miss Mario...
Quality- with the availability of downloadable content, patches, and demos- anyone producing a sub-par game would be shooting themselves in the foot. Games aren't played (Infinium would keep track)= lower money (possibly terminated contract).
(4) peripherals: Standard USB ports, controller. Configure your own buttons on most games. Light gun may make a comeback!
Also with 3rd party support dwindling due to Phantom's superior distribution, the major game companies will either buy them, beat them (with 1st party software and limited 3rd party?- N64), or join them. Just as Sega retired from the hardware business, I beleive that Nintendo may follow suit. And Microsoft or Sony may try to buy them out if they were to succeed.
So you see- whether this is accomplished by Phantom or another (perhaps more business savvy) company this would be a welcome change, at least to this gaming fanatic.
Then comes the Phantom.
With the Phantom, publishers can re-release old titles with little or no change in the game. If brokered right, Infinium could negotiate a lease of the license with the holders. This would put money back in the publisher's pocket and allow gamers to play old favorites or catch ones that they may have missed. Abandonware now becomes Phantomware. Why surf the net looking for hard to find and buggy emulators and ROMS when you can play then at will? Not to mention the fact that you can play both the original Wolfenstein and Return to Castle Wolfenstein, BurgerTime and Pizza Tycoon, and Baldur's Gate 1 & 2 and Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance on the same system.
So from a publisher/developer's standpoint:
(1)OS: XP or not, must be optimized for compatability.
(2)Hardware: Must either meet or surpass anything on the market today [consoles].
(3)Distribution: No packaging, old games available again, direct to consumers. Except for download times, this is impeccable. (Why not play another game while that what you want is downloading?)
(4)Development: Not having to port to 3 different platforms cuts down on expenses. Revenue received from old properties increases available budget. Resurgence of "retro-ware" (games focusing more on story and gameplay than graphics) allows for lower-budget games. Since the gamers are going to be able to access demos (in most cases) then development quality should be high.
(5)Revenue: Properly negotiated deals with Infinium lead to revenue generated with old titles. New releases are offered and sold, or "rented" (made available via premium service) with a negotiated amount going back to the publishers.
From a gamer's perspective:
(1)cost: base unit: $400 daunting. $300 viable. $200 optimal.
Service: same as DirectTV; depends on what you want.
(2)performance: must be at least as good if not better than anything currently available [console]
(3)games: cost- With retro games and "retro-ware" available with the cost of service, and since you can rent or buy new games the cost should be much less.
selection- old games + new games + new/revived developers (remember retro-ware and negotiated deals). The only thing missing is first party software from the big 3. I'm gonna miss Mario...
Quality- with the availability of downloadable content, patches, and demos- anyone producing a sub-par game would be shooting themselves in the foot. Games aren't played (Infinium would keep track)= lower money (possibly terminated contract).
(4) peripherals: Standard USB ports, controller. Configure your own buttons on most games. Light gun may make a comeback!
Also with 3rd party support dwindling due to Phantom's superior distribution, the major game companies will either buy them, beat them (with 1st party software and limited 3rd party?- N64), or join them. Just as Sega retired from the hardware business, I beleive that Nintendo may follow suit. And Microsoft or Sony may try to buy them out if they were to succeed.
So you see- whether this is accomplished by Phantom or another (perhaps more business savvy) company this would be a welcome change, at least to this gaming fanatic.
umm yeah... I saw a company offering Xbox, gc, ps2, PC, music and movies over the internet on a monthly subscription fee. Looked very good but i thought it might be a scam. The price was larger but you still got more data for money.
But you wouldnt care if you're Xbox or what ever console was hot pink? I wouldnt...too much hehehe. its what you do with it that matters.
To make my point imagine yourself going into your room and turning on the phantom on. A few clicks later and you will be playing the latest and greatest game (spend a few minutes thinking up the games you wish you had). You spend the next 2 hours playing intensively untill its lunch...
See how all that crap that everyone else was compaining about dont matter? If the games are there, then the thing has done its job.
The point is, you buy a console for what it does. What phantom does is insane: the range of games is great, everyone can get stuck into a game straight away and not have to save up excessive amounts. And goodbye gamming lounges. I'll save heaps on those (enought to overcome that $9 subscription fee).
I'll also be able to use my TV which is much bigger than my computer screen!
What phantom needs to offer more than just games. Parents have grudges against games, they dont like their kidiwiddis spending excessive amounts of time... some of them dont have a problem.
Then there is a problem of it being a 2nd computer. SO WHAAAAT? Most people already have a computer that does all that email, finance, word processing shit. You DONT need a new top-of-the-range computer to do that stuff. A 2.4 ghz computer that most people are getting these days will last for ever to suit those purposes. These days people upgrade for the games (which are becomming ever more advanced, while email stays the same).
Call me a conspiracy theorist, but i reckon people here are getting paid to complain. Be honest with yourself and you may find you will like the phantom!
But you wouldnt care if you're Xbox or what ever console was hot pink? I wouldnt...too much hehehe. its what you do with it that matters.
To make my point imagine yourself going into your room and turning on the phantom on. A few clicks later and you will be playing the latest and greatest game (spend a few minutes thinking up the games you wish you had). You spend the next 2 hours playing intensively untill its lunch...
See how all that crap that everyone else was compaining about dont matter? If the games are there, then the thing has done its job.
The point is, you buy a console for what it does. What phantom does is insane: the range of games is great, everyone can get stuck into a game straight away and not have to save up excessive amounts. And goodbye gamming lounges. I'll save heaps on those (enought to overcome that $9 subscription fee).
I'll also be able to use my TV which is much bigger than my computer screen!
What phantom needs to offer more than just games. Parents have grudges against games, they dont like their kidiwiddis spending excessive amounts of time... some of them dont have a problem.
Then there is a problem of it being a 2nd computer. SO WHAAAAT? Most people already have a computer that does all that email, finance, word processing shit. You DONT need a new top-of-the-range computer to do that stuff. A 2.4 ghz computer that most people are getting these days will last for ever to suit those purposes. These days people upgrade for the games (which are becomming ever more advanced, while email stays the same).
Call me a conspiracy theorist, but i reckon people here are getting paid to complain. Be honest with yourself and you may find you will like the phantom!
C'mon people, their offices are in a strip mall in Florida! This whole thing is a hoax and even IF they do have a prototype, no one is going to fund a broadband-only console. This will never see the light of day.
What happens when XP gets screwed up and you get blue screens or worse? Hard to run a repair w/o a cd drive...
PS 3 how do i install linux on it
Posted by: Anonymous [ip: 24.11.19.183] on January 15, 2008 03:41 AM
PS 3 how do i install linux on it
Differences with palladium
Posted by: gerardm on July 10, 2003 07:06 PMThey call it trustworthy computing. But when they do not trust me, can I trust them? And when I can trust them now, can I trust them in the future?
With a gamebox this issue is a non issue; you do not store personal sensitive information on a gamebox.
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