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Feature: Open Source
One small business's year without Windows
By Alan N. Canton
on
May 21, 2005 (8:00:00 AM)
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My company, Adams-Blake Co., started its business life on a Macintosh platform and moved to Windows in 1995. By late 2001, administration had gone from a chore to a nightmare. When it was again time to upgrade we decided to change to Linux. We began with Mandrake, then tried Slackware, and now run a few machines with Mepis. We've always had a challenge to see if we could not use Windows for an entire year. We've never been able to do it -- until now.
All of our other business functions are covered with Linux. On the desktop, we use Moneydance for accounting. We use Microsoft Word under the CodeWeavers CrossOver Office, and OpenOffice.org for spreadsheets and presentations. We use the GIMP for graphics and Quanta and Bluefish for editing Web pages. We prepare our payroll with PayCycle. On the server side we keep media lists on MySQL using the phpMyAdmin front end. We wish we had an Access-like front end to MySQL so we could quickly write more complex apps. Finally, we use our own Jaya123 Web service to run order entry, reporting, and invoicing.
However, there was no acceptable way to do taxes on Linux. The software we tried did not run well under CrossOver Office, Wine, or Win2Lin.
This year we did our personal taxes online using TaxAct. For our corporate 1120 forms we used the IRS fill-in forms with the new Adobe Reader 7.0 for Linux. This was not as optimal as using tax software, but small corporate taxes are easy, and preparing them via fill-in forms was not difficult. Maybe next year there will be an online service for small business 1120 forms that works with Firefox under Linux; today most require Internet Explorer.
One great wish is for an Access-like front end to MySQL where we could put up quick-and-dirty data entry forms and create reports. Linux really needs a good (and inexpensive) report generator (like the proprietary Crystal Reports). Rekall, knoda, and others are works in progress and don't come close to the robustness of Access. We can do a lot with phpMyAdmin, but it's not the same. We miss being able to program a GUI application in a few hours using a really good IDE.
Our business is not that different from most others. We have products (books), services (consulting), and employees. If we can go Windowless, others can as well.
Oh, and let me tell you how many times we had to reboot, how many viruses we got, and how much adware and spyware we were infected with. Can you spell Z-E-R-O?
This was the first time we've been able to go a full year without booting Windows. Linux has been slow in coming to the small business sector, but it's almost here now. If we can get a good report writer and database front end (maybe in the new OpenOffice 2.0?) there could be a real contest between Windows and Linux.
Alan Canton is the president of Adams-Blake Company of Fair Oaks, Calif., which provides the JAYA123 Web-based back office application for small and mid-size businesses.
Comments
on One small business's year without WindowsNote: Comments are owned by the poster. We are not responsible for their content.
Base is a fucking nightmare to get it working with MySQL.
I finally did get some sembalance of it working but it was very buggy with the field names in the tables not showing up for edit.
It would be good if Base worked with MySQL well, and if Base looked more like MS-Access<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:).
I finally did get some sembalance of it working but it was very buggy with the field names in the tables not showing up for edit.
It would be good if Base worked with MySQL well, and if Base looked more like MS-Access<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:).
It's a beta - so, yes, it will be buggy, and yes, it should not be recommended until the final version comes out.
There are tons of DB front-ends that work with various databases. Not so many report generators yet, though.
As an aside, Access may be "robust", but it's also pretty complicated as well for a small business user. If a small business user can learn to use it effectively, then there's certainly no reason they can't learn to use Linux.
There are tons of DB front-ends that work with various databases. Not so many report generators yet, though.
As an aside, Access may be "robust", but it's also pretty complicated as well for a small business user. If a small business user can learn to use it effectively, then there's certainly no reason they can't learn to use Linux.
Have you tried Base, the access like app, in the upcoming OpenOffice 2.0 yet?
Did you read the damned article??
"If we can get a good report writer and database front end (maybe in the new OpenOffice 2.0?)"
Did you read the damned article??
"If we can get a good report writer and database front end (maybe in the new OpenOffice 2.0?)"
I just read about <A HREF="http://www.koffice.org/kexi/" title="koffice.org">Kexi</a koffice.org> and was wondering, since it styles itself as "a long awaited Open Source competitor for MS Access", how does it work out?
Anybody has any experience?
Anybody has any experience?
Hey, I never knew about Kexi before. That looks like a sweet DB app. I am going to give it a go. OOo BASE is really great being a beta, but yeah, it needs some polish. Register with OOo and submit bug reports and ideas. Then, when it released, it will be perfect...
Joe
Joe
The problems you state are exactly to the point. A good replacement for Ms Access is a real must for any business, big or small. In my job as a developer, I have to use Access every day, and thanks to Microsoft changing their file-format with almost every version, it's becoming a pain to use as well. I'm getting tired of fighting with our IT-buyer over the fact I refuse to use anything else than Access97. I just have a lot of legacy apps to maintain and I cannot just simply switch file-formats without having to recode a lot of stuff. I have for instance hundreds of our customers using my software to consult documentation and order spare parts electronically, a thing which is based on an Access97-database on the client-side. We are looking for a good replacementfor Access, even in the Windows world! There are enough good databases out there, MySQL being one of them, but as a front-end, nothing beats the speed and ease of Access.
At home, where I don't have the database problem, I'm happily using Linux (Linspire 5-0). Lispire is a particularly good choice for the home user due to their CNR (Click and Run) Warehouse. I know a lot of people in the Linux world knock it, but hey, you should try it first. I've tried many distro's over the years, including Mandrake, Xandros, redHat, Fedora, Debian, Knoppix, etc... but I'm sticking with Linspire. This is the first time that after a couple of days after installing a distro, I'm actually USING it to do my usual stuff, instead of making all the bits of it work.
Great to read you are managing on Linux though, good for you!
At home, where I don't have the database problem, I'm happily using Linux (Linspire 5-0). Lispire is a particularly good choice for the home user due to their CNR (Click and Run) Warehouse. I know a lot of people in the Linux world knock it, but hey, you should try it first. I've tried many distro's over the years, including Mandrake, Xandros, redHat, Fedora, Debian, Knoppix, etc... but I'm sticking with Linspire. This is the first time that after a couple of days after installing a distro, I'm actually USING it to do my usual stuff, instead of making all the bits of it work.
Great to read you are managing on Linux though, good for you!
For crappy little uses, then Access is fine, but nobody professional should actually be using it, even on Windows. Once a company reaches any decent size (100+), Access is simply not scalable, and is out of the picture. Even before its a pretty poor performer, for anything more than a couple of tables, and maybe a query or two.
At work ( Which is currently a mix of Linux and MS ) we use the Enterprise Manager for database work on the MS SQL servers, and write our frontends in C# for Windows. ( We have case management software that requires Windows, and MS Office. and the SQL servers. )
If your using Access as a professional, than your only playing at Database work.
At work ( Which is currently a mix of Linux and MS ) we use the Enterprise Manager for database work on the MS SQL servers, and write our frontends in C# for Windows. ( We have case management software that requires Windows, and MS Office. and the SQL servers. )
If your using Access as a professional, than your only playing at Database work.
You missed the point. I don't want Access, I want an Access-like front-end to MySQL. I hear that the new O.O. might have what I want but without the abilty to write code (scripts) as you an do in Access (with their VBA language.) Maybe someone will create a hook into O.O. for Python? We can hope.
Al Canton
Adams-Blake Company, Inc.
Al Canton
Adams-Blake Company, Inc.
I work for a large multinational company, and you may have misunderstood me a bit. No way is Access our main database-platform. We mainly have our data on AS/400's and our company servers use SQL-server or MySQL, but for some of the small-scale stuff, Access IS the best alternative. For a DVD I send to a customer which enables him to consult a 'small' database, it does the job pretty well.
Alan was also mainly concerned about the front-end, as am I. I'd gladly switch these small-scale things over to MySQL, if I had a front-end like Access, scriptable in the same easy way, the same sort of visual query-builder, etc...
An Access-like frontend for MySQL would be more than enough for me to dump Access in the blink of an eye.
Alan was also mainly concerned about the front-end, as am I. I'd gladly switch these small-scale things over to MySQL, if I had a front-end like Access, scriptable in the same easy way, the same sort of visual query-builder, etc...
An Access-like frontend for MySQL would be more than enough for me to dump Access in the blink of an eye.
No, no, no. You don't build your database using Access. You use Access with link tables to keep an eye on your database, and do ad-hoc queries when a problem arises. You use it with a read-only database user, for production data. You can use it to fiddle with Development data when you're testing something. It's like TOAD, but it's free when you're in a Windows shop.
It's just a frontend. You don't actually use it as a database!
It's just a frontend. You don't actually use it as a database!
I don't like the overtly user-friendly distros. I think something is lost when you switch to doing everything in a GUI (namely the hobby aspect). For me, Slackware is king.
It's small, tight, easy to manage, and secure. Also it runs faster than almost any other Unix, except maybe Gentoo, but I'm not that big a gearhead (yet). Gentoo guys drive a totally tricked-out rice burner with superchargers and nitrous; I drive a '69 Mustang Mach 1 with a rebuilt engine. We're both happy, though.
(The user-friendly distros are BMW's and Volkswagens, which are great cars -- but they don't attract the wrench and pliers crowd.)
It's small, tight, easy to manage, and secure. Also it runs faster than almost any other Unix, except maybe Gentoo, but I'm not that big a gearhead (yet). Gentoo guys drive a totally tricked-out rice burner with superchargers and nitrous; I drive a '69 Mustang Mach 1 with a rebuilt engine. We're both happy, though.
(The user-friendly distros are BMW's and Volkswagens, which are great cars -- but they don't attract the wrench and pliers crowd.)
Another option for an MS Access alternative is <A HREF="http://basebuilder.sourceforge.net/" title="sourceforge.net">Basebuilder</a sourceforge.net>, a PHP/MySQL program and a database framework, like Microsoft Access or Filemaker, designed to help you build custom, web-based databases. I haven't tried it to it's potential but it looks pretty flexible.
Basebuilder will automatically create html-based layouts based on your existing database tables, providing you with an easy to use web-based interface to your database in minutes.
Some of the features:
Basebuilder will automatically create html-based layouts based on your existing database tables, providing you with an easy to use web-based interface to your database in minutes.
Some of the features:
- Three ways to search:
- Simple search - allows you to enter a single word or phrase which is searched against one or several fields (as specified by you) in a single table
- Search by layout - allows you to search any field in a given table - boolean and/or is allowed
- Advanced search - allows you to enter a SQL statement or build one using a visual SQL statement builder
- Saved searches - all searches can be saved for later use
- Automatically generated and sroll-able results - search or browse results are displayed 20 per page (customizable by you) with the number of returned results is displayed along with forward and backward arrows to scroll through the pages.
- Ability to add relationships between tables with automatic cascading deletes.
- Ability to add as many users as you want. Each user is assigned to a database username, allowing you to give different users different levels of access to the database.
- Ability to create full database backups on the server and download them to your desktop.
What did you have to do that couldn't have been handled by OO?
A buddy of mine runs a small lumber business and is forced to use Microsoft Office for one reason and one reason only.
He gets a lumber offering list from the biggest mill they buy from in xls format. Excel opened them fine, but OOo doesn't. Apparently the original list at their end is password protected. That protection is removed after putting in the latest offerings. OOo throws a fit and says it cannot open the document because it is password protected. Unfortunately, a little 10-man company can't dictate that a huge corporation like Georgia Pacific change applications.
If there's a workaround, we haven't found it yet.
He gets a lumber offering list from the biggest mill they buy from in xls format. Excel opened them fine, but OOo doesn't. Apparently the original list at their end is password protected. That protection is removed after putting in the latest offerings. OOo throws a fit and says it cannot open the document because it is password protected. Unfortunately, a little 10-man company can't dictate that a huge corporation like Georgia Pacific change applications.
If there's a workaround, we haven't found it yet.
Has your buddy tried the latest version of OO 2.0 beta? I had some XLS problems between Excel on OO in ver. 1.4, but they have been fixed in 2.0 beta. I have to say OO has really made some great strides forward in making a real replacement for Word and Excel.
Unfortunately, OOo cannot open the weak password protection in office documents for legal reasons, not technical reasons.
Why people think that their stuff is safe in some unknown password "protected" format is beyond me anyway. OOo's own password protection is much stronger anyway.
On the other hand, why not try one of the myriad password crackers on the net:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&q<nobr>=<wbr></nobr> word+password+linux&btnG=Search
Why people think that their stuff is safe in some unknown password "protected" format is beyond me anyway. OOo's own password protection is much stronger anyway.
On the other hand, why not try one of the myriad password crackers on the net:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&q<nobr>=<wbr></nobr> word+password+linux&btnG=Search
Why not open it in a hex editor and strip out the password related data entirely?
forced to use Microsoft Office<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... He gets a lumber offering list<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... a little 10-man company can't dictate that a huge corporation like Georgia Pacific change applications.
This is a real and serious problem, and is one of the ways the Microsoft monopoly is maintained. Naive users are locked in to proprietary file formats, which has a knock-on effect as described here.
So at worst, he only needs one copy of Excel.
I would keep sending it back saying it doesn't work.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)
I would keep sending it back saying it doesn't work.<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:)
HAHA.. Yeah, that might raise some eyebrows. BTW, why does a large company like Georga Pacific not use a web based order entry form. You can password protect that, AND import the pages (If its formatted well enough) to OOo?
It would sure be nice to see a cost benefit analysis of this for your office. The savings on proprietary software is pretty straightforward and should be quick and easy to assess. The savings on systems administration would be a little more complex but counting the number of people employed for that purpose would be a quick and easy way to assess that. Sysadmins per installation or installations per employee for example.
I realize this can easily get complicated but if you can finagle the time it seems to me with the size of office you describe this sort of analysis would be manageable. Of course ultimately, like they say in the ad, "your freedom...........priceless."
I realize this can easily get complicated but if you can finagle the time it seems to me with the size of office you describe this sort of analysis would be manageable. Of course ultimately, like they say in the ad, "your freedom...........priceless."
Why Word? Good question.
We get a ton of RFPs from the State of California for consulting and programming projects. Many of these are heavily formatted with lines, arrows, graphics, etc., and O.O. 1.x does not handle many of them well. Also, while I find the O.O. wordprocessor OK, another person in our office who does a lot of writing does not like it, so we installed Word 97 for her (via Codeweavers.com Crossover Office) and it works fine... problem solved.
-Al Canton
Adams-Blake Company, Inc.
Jaya123: Your office on the web
http://www.jaya123.com
We get a ton of RFPs from the State of California for consulting and programming projects. Many of these are heavily formatted with lines, arrows, graphics, etc., and O.O. 1.x does not handle many of them well. Also, while I find the O.O. wordprocessor OK, another person in our office who does a lot of writing does not like it, so we installed Word 97 for her (via Codeweavers.com Crossover Office) and it works fine... problem solved.
-Al Canton
Adams-Blake Company, Inc.
Jaya123: Your office on the web
http://www.jaya123.com
Perhaps cost is the key issue. It is not cheap to run Mac in a business environment. Mac is more of a closed system than Windows since you have to buy both hardware and software from the same vendor. Steve Jobs maybe more elegant but he is no different than Bill Gates.
"My company, Adams-Blake Co., started its business life on a Macintosh platform and moved to Windows in 1995."
OK. So what's preventing you from using Macs NOW?
OK. So what's preventing you from using Macs NOW?
Use a Mac now? Simple answer. Cost. Linux runs perfectly fine on our hardware. HOWEVER, the next time we have to re-stock our office with new machines you can bet we will take a good, hard look at the Mac and their OS-X system.
Whenever I travel I try to find a hotel near an Apple store so I can go in and get my email and do other net stuff, instead of paying the hotel charges for a connection. I LOVE THE MACs. I honestly do. But I'm not going to buy new hardware just to have them as that would not be cost effective righ now.
Al Canton
Adams-Blake Company, Inc.
Jaya123: Your office on the web.
<a href="http://www.jaya123.com/" title="jaya123.com">http://www.jaya123.com/</a jaya123.com>
Whenever I travel I try to find a hotel near an Apple store so I can go in and get my email and do other net stuff, instead of paying the hotel charges for a connection. I LOVE THE MACs. I honestly do. But I'm not going to buy new hardware just to have them as that would not be cost effective righ now.
Al Canton
Adams-Blake Company, Inc.
Jaya123: Your office on the web.
<a href="http://www.jaya123.com/" title="jaya123.com">http://www.jaya123.com/</a jaya123.com>
If you go with Linux now it is still possible to use Apple hardware in the future. The performance is a lot better.
With <A HREF="http://www.maconlinux.org/" title="maconlinux.org">Mac-on-Linux</a maconlinux.org> you can run both Linux and OS X at the same time.
You know that Mac-on-Linux is a PPC only program. That he would need a Mac to run it. So buying a Mac, putting on Linux, just to use Mac-on-Linux to hopefully in the future move to OS X is not and idea that is thought out very well. He has PCs at this time, and to get the best use of these computers for the cheapest amount of money, they went with Linux, since its free.
I would suggest looking into FileMaker (filemaker.com) for a good database frontend but I can't remember if you can make a web front end for your database. Like in Access, where you can export to HTML, which I think you can do with Filemaker. I have only played with a demo version so I'm just throwing that out there for you to look at. Plus you would need a computer running Windows or get a Mac (maybe a mini) to setup the database and gui front end, no linux version yet I believe. Then, I'm not sure about if it has to run from a certain server or you can throw it in the website directory and it will work. Even though you want to cut costs it seems like, you still need to pay for the best products out there. And like most people have said already, Access is not a great option for running a high class DB, even for a small business.
I would suggest looking into FileMaker (filemaker.com) for a good database frontend but I can't remember if you can make a web front end for your database. Like in Access, where you can export to HTML, which I think you can do with Filemaker. I have only played with a demo version so I'm just throwing that out there for you to look at. Plus you would need a computer running Windows or get a Mac (maybe a mini) to setup the database and gui front end, no linux version yet I believe. Then, I'm not sure about if it has to run from a certain server or you can throw it in the website directory and it will work. Even though you want to cut costs it seems like, you still need to pay for the best products out there. And like most people have said already, Access is not a great option for running a high class DB, even for a small business.
ANY business user, small or large, should not be using Access for exactly the reasons you cite - constant maintenance issues, non-standard SQL and vendor lockin.
Small business users should be provided with a relatively SQL standard DB like MySQL, PostgreSQL or FireBird with an appropriate front-end DB manager (there are tons of them out there). Look for example here http://www.sqlmanager.net/ for products supporting numerous open source databases. The products from this company aren't free, but they seem to have the features needed. There are free open source DB maintenance front-ends, as I say.
From the report generating standpoint, that IS a problem. But there ARE some solutions. Look at NaviCat for MySQl, for example, here http://www.navicat.com/. Or check out AriaCom Business Reports here http://www.ariacom.com/.
DataVision, a reporter writer written in Java which supports most OSS DB's is available here:
http://datavision.sourceforge.net/.
Finally OpenOffice can use any database with its Database User Tools and use it's own Report AutoPilot as indicated here:
http://www.openoffice.org/product/dbase.html
Small business users should be provided with a relatively SQL standard DB like MySQL, PostgreSQL or FireBird with an appropriate front-end DB manager (there are tons of them out there). Look for example here http://www.sqlmanager.net/ for products supporting numerous open source databases. The products from this company aren't free, but they seem to have the features needed. There are free open source DB maintenance front-ends, as I say.
From the report generating standpoint, that IS a problem. But there ARE some solutions. Look at NaviCat for MySQl, for example, here http://www.navicat.com/. Or check out AriaCom Business Reports here http://www.ariacom.com/.
DataVision, a reporter writer written in Java which supports most OSS DB's is available here:
http://datavision.sourceforge.net/.
Finally OpenOffice can use any database with its Database User Tools and use it's own Report AutoPilot as indicated here:
http://www.openoffice.org/product/dbase.html
You are making the mistake, which many open-source people make, of thinking of Access as a database. It's not. It has a toy "database" bundled with it, but no sensible company entrusts data to that.
Access is primarily a front-end to serious databases (like Oracle<nobr> <wbr></nobr>... or maybe MySQL). As a front-end forms generator, it's really slick.
I believe the poster covered your points. The problem with Access isn't [just] the db engine but the development tool. That is one of the reasons for upgrading.
The other problem with Access is that it is a database UI. Any seasoned application developer will understand why this is a problem.
The other problem with Access is that it is a database UI. Any seasoned application developer will understand why this is a problem.
I've seen equally "slick" forms generators for DBMSs going back to xBASE.
The fact of the matter is, Access is touted as a "database" by Microsoft, even though it is not seriously more significant as a database than, say, FoxPro was (at least once FoxPro got referential integrity - back in 1991 I had to code that manually in FoxPro!)
And I doubt most users are using Access to connect to Oracle - and even less so to MySQL (MySQL in Windows environments is almost always limited to the Web server, IF Apache and not IIS is the server.) Oracle has far more powerful (and infinitely more complicated and expensive) forms generation tools than Access does.
And only a power user or in-house IT developer could spend the time to figure out how to use Access form tools to their full effect anyway - especially if they're connecting to a serious database - it's not something your average user does. And if they do, then the hoary argument about average users not being to learn Linux is obviously wrong!
I suspect most Access users are simply dumping their output into the standard table view - hardly an advanced technigue. Practically any database on the market, OSS or commercial, can do this much and a lot more besides.
If IT developers are called into action, I see little distinction between using Access as a front-end and using any one of dozens of database front-end tools available for OSS DBMSs. So why settle on Access when OSS DBMS's are more powerful and just as easy to use by IT developers?
Inertia is simply the reason. Corporations buy Office for Word (they ALL need a word processor) and Excel (they THINK they ALL need a spreadsheet - which they then use for "database" tasks they can't figure out how to do in Access) - and get Access thrown in with the bargain. So when OpenOffice gets a complete equivalent, it will just cement the fact that Access really isn't all that important.
The fact of the matter is, Access is touted as a "database" by Microsoft, even though it is not seriously more significant as a database than, say, FoxPro was (at least once FoxPro got referential integrity - back in 1991 I had to code that manually in FoxPro!)
And I doubt most users are using Access to connect to Oracle - and even less so to MySQL (MySQL in Windows environments is almost always limited to the Web server, IF Apache and not IIS is the server.) Oracle has far more powerful (and infinitely more complicated and expensive) forms generation tools than Access does.
And only a power user or in-house IT developer could spend the time to figure out how to use Access form tools to their full effect anyway - especially if they're connecting to a serious database - it's not something your average user does. And if they do, then the hoary argument about average users not being to learn Linux is obviously wrong!
I suspect most Access users are simply dumping their output into the standard table view - hardly an advanced technigue. Practically any database on the market, OSS or commercial, can do this much and a lot more besides.
If IT developers are called into action, I see little distinction between using Access as a front-end and using any one of dozens of database front-end tools available for OSS DBMSs. So why settle on Access when OSS DBMS's are more powerful and just as easy to use by IT developers?
Inertia is simply the reason. Corporations buy Office for Word (they ALL need a word processor) and Excel (they THINK they ALL need a spreadsheet - which they then use for "database" tasks they can't figure out how to do in Access) - and get Access thrown in with the bargain. So when OpenOffice gets a complete equivalent, it will just cement the fact that Access really isn't all that important.
There is a truly awesome web-based accounting package. It's free and is opensource:
http://sql-ledger.com/
http://sql-ledger.com/
you could try JasperReport
http://jasperreports.sourceforge.net/
to design reports, you need one of the gui tools,
see
http://jasperreports.sourceforge.net/gui.tools.ht<nobr>m<wbr></nobr> l
I've tried iReport and it works just fine.
http://jasperreports.sourceforge.net/
to design reports, you need one of the gui tools,
see
http://jasperreports.sourceforge.net/gui.tools.ht<nobr>m<wbr></nobr> l
I've tried iReport and it works just fine.
Also, checkout BIRT ( http://www.eclipse.org/birt/ ). It is pretty new, but is being supported by Actuate. I think it is a little more complex than iReports.
I've used JasperReports + iReports. Very good combination. And it outputs to more formats than Access.
I've used JasperReports + iReports. Very good combination. And it outputs to more formats than Access.
JasperReports/iReport with OpenReports(to deliver)
Posted by: Anonymous Coward on May 24, 2005 07:22 AM
<a href="http://oreports.com/" title="oreports.com">http://oreports.com/</a oreports.com>
If you want an easy way to deliver reports to endusers, schedule email delivery, or show the results of ad-hoc queries check the above link out.
We use it in my company, and the staff loves it.
It's built on Tomcat/JasperReports with the Quartz scheduling engine for email delivery, includes users/groups out of the box too.
If you want an easy way to deliver reports to endusers, schedule email delivery, or show the results of ad-hoc queries check the above link out.
We use it in my company, and the staff loves it.
It's built on Tomcat/JasperReports with the Quartz scheduling engine for email delivery, includes users/groups out of the box too.
Invoicing? Where is exact Quickbooks Replacement?
Posted by: Anonymous Coward on May 22, 2005 07:06 PM
I did not read where you were able to do invoicing with your personal accounting program? Invoicing we need also needs two layers of commissions (one from supplier as we get commisions from our vendors, and one for employee who gets a part of the commission for first year, then part of commision for second year (scheduled depending on employee)! All this is generated from the invoice and tracks to payables and receivables from one invoice (vendor, company, employee)! Even Quickbooks does not do this (only complaint)!
Is this payroll option online or are the updates and media sent to you via cdrom and is it disk based (more secure). I don't trust any system security for small business on an internet connected machine. All confidential stuff runs on stand alone machine that is not connected to internet.
We do love Quickbooks... when is someone going to use the "look and feel" lawsuit win to build something other than MS office look alikes? When is someone going to build a same look and feel as Quickbooks has...including integrated payroll that we gladdly will pay a subscription for to keep the tables updated for multi-state payroll needs.
Someone could maybe use a FOSS accounting package that is supported (need support to run a business on any mission critical software)... with a part that talks to payroll module.
Any ideas?
Is this payroll option online or are the updates and media sent to you via cdrom and is it disk based (more secure). I don't trust any system security for small business on an internet connected machine. All confidential stuff runs on stand alone machine that is not connected to internet.
We do love Quickbooks... when is someone going to use the "look and feel" lawsuit win to build something other than MS office look alikes? When is someone going to build a same look and feel as Quickbooks has...including integrated payroll that we gladdly will pay a subscription for to keep the tables updated for multi-state payroll needs.
Someone could maybe use a FOSS accounting package that is supported (need support to run a business on any mission critical software)... with a part that talks to payroll module.
Any ideas?
Re:Invoicing? Where is exact Quickbooks Replacemen
Posted by: Anonymous Coward on May 23, 2005 01:41 AM
What I wanted to come out in the article is that our company tries to use as many web-based services as possible. For check-writing we use our bank's 'bill-payer' service (which is free). For taxes we used TaxAct (but it does not do 1120 corporate but works fine for personal and Sched.C). For payroll we use <a href="http://www.paycycle.com/" title="paycycle.com">http://www.paycycle.com/</a paycycle.com>. And, of course, for order-entry, invoicing, inventory, reporting, and all the other back-office stuff we use Jaya123 ( <a href="http://www.jaya123.com/" title="jaya123.com">http://www.jaya123.com/</a jaya123.com> ).
If we found an online version of an accounting system we liked we would move to that as well. But Moneydance does a good job for us. We looked at SQL-Ledger as well as Nola, but they were over-kill for our small firm.
The only thing I miss is the ability to create quick-and-dirty reports off of a database. Jaya123 has most of the reports we want, but sometimes we want something that Jaya's select/extract routines just won't handle, nor will phpMyAdmin. Having a front-end with a kick-butt report writer is an answer to my prayers!! Maybe we will see it in OO 2.0.
Al Canton
Adams-Blake Company, Inc.
If we found an online version of an accounting system we liked we would move to that as well. But Moneydance does a good job for us. We looked at SQL-Ledger as well as Nola, but they were over-kill for our small firm.
The only thing I miss is the ability to create quick-and-dirty reports off of a database. Jaya123 has most of the reports we want, but sometimes we want something that Jaya's select/extract routines just won't handle, nor will phpMyAdmin. Having a front-end with a kick-butt report writer is an answer to my prayers!! Maybe we will see it in OO 2.0.
Al Canton
Adams-Blake Company, Inc.
Instead of Moneydance, why not try the completely free/OSS (and darn nice I might add) Grisbi?
I'm not so strong with reading French so I'm having a hard time making it through their web pages. What are some of the key points to switching to Grisbi over Moneydance?
A number of questions come to mind after reading this article. How small is the company and how many servers and desktops are running Linux?
The author writes: "However, there was no acceptable way to do taxes on Linux. The software we tried did not run well under CrossOver Office, Wine, or Win2Lin."
Well, what tax software were you trying to use? And why did it fail? That could be useful information.
At the risk of appearing cynical, it seems to me that the author has embarked upon a knowledge fishing expedition and an advertisement campaign all rolled into one.
The author writes: "However, there was no acceptable way to do taxes on Linux. The software we tried did not run well under CrossOver Office, Wine, or Win2Lin."
Well, what tax software were you trying to use? And why did it fail? That could be useful information.
At the risk of appearing cynical, it seems to me that the author has embarked upon a knowledge fishing expedition and an advertisement campaign all rolled into one.
I used TurboTax to fill my personal tax return. Turbo Tax works well with FireFox cause the site officially support FireFox.
Anirban Biswas.
Anirban Biswas.
I don't understand
"One great wish is for an Access-like front end to MySQL where we could put up quick-and-dirty data entry forms and create reports. Linux really needs a good (and inexpensive) report generator (like the proprietary Crystal Reports). Rekall, knoda, and others are works in progress and don't come close to the robustness of Access. We can do a lot with phpMyAdmin, but it's not the same. We miss being able to program a GUI application in a few hours using a really good IDE."
for me this is fud - Access is not robust - I have used acces for a while but I always end up using mysql - Access is not a production database system and anybody that uses it for such will end up paying the price someday. Mysql/Postgres are robust and to me are right up there next to oracle.
I consult part time and the businesses that I have installed foss in do not use access and have no need to use access - I always set up two servers as ha and they use postgres and mysql in an ha environment and they have 5 9's uptime - they never go down and they just hum along. and then we just buy really cheap clients - some are thin.
People have got to start running their business on the best available and the most robust. Just because you can whip a gui in a couple of hours does not mean it is the best way to go for the business - once you have apps setup you don't want to touch them and just have them run - you don't want to go in and have to update this and update that just because you can and it is easy. the more you touch something the better the chance you are going to screw something up.
This is the mindset that microsoft has set in and it is wrong - I have seen this time and time again people that have no business touching software go ahead and do it just because it is easy to do and screw things up.
Microsoft might of helped bring computers to the masses but they sure created a lot of bad habits in the processing that people need to start undoing and start doing apps right.
"One great wish is for an Access-like front end to MySQL where we could put up quick-and-dirty data entry forms and create reports. Linux really needs a good (and inexpensive) report generator (like the proprietary Crystal Reports). Rekall, knoda, and others are works in progress and don't come close to the robustness of Access. We can do a lot with phpMyAdmin, but it's not the same. We miss being able to program a GUI application in a few hours using a really good IDE."
for me this is fud - Access is not robust - I have used acces for a while but I always end up using mysql - Access is not a production database system and anybody that uses it for such will end up paying the price someday. Mysql/Postgres are robust and to me are right up there next to oracle.
I consult part time and the businesses that I have installed foss in do not use access and have no need to use access - I always set up two servers as ha and they use postgres and mysql in an ha environment and they have 5 9's uptime - they never go down and they just hum along. and then we just buy really cheap clients - some are thin.
People have got to start running their business on the best available and the most robust. Just because you can whip a gui in a couple of hours does not mean it is the best way to go for the business - once you have apps setup you don't want to touch them and just have them run - you don't want to go in and have to update this and update that just because you can and it is easy. the more you touch something the better the chance you are going to screw something up.
This is the mindset that microsoft has set in and it is wrong - I have seen this time and time again people that have no business touching software go ahead and do it just because it is easy to do and screw things up.
Microsoft might of helped bring computers to the masses but they sure created a lot of bad habits in the processing that people need to start undoing and start doing apps right.
This is complete non-sense. I can't stand Microsoft, but Access is an incredible tool for creating simple applications for small businesses. With a short training course at a local community college or tech training center, a smart person can quickly create an application with easy to use gui and fantastic reports for a small group of users. Access is not meant for 100 user applications, but for 5-10 users, its excellent. foss community needs to quit saying "access is a piece of crap" and wake up to the real world where people need to get things done.
You cannot replace MS Office in businesses until you can replace Access.
You cannot replace MS Office in businesses until you can replace Access.
We use Access a lot for small 3-6 person groups. It sucks! With only a little more effort much of what we do could better be handled via a web interface.
Yes, you can throw together a quick app, but you sure don't want to rely on it for production use. Anybody who shares thier access DB/app accross a network with other users should know what I'm talking about.
Then try to do it on a non-Windows server and things really go down the crapper fast.
Yes, you can throw together a quick app, but you sure don't want to rely on it for production use. Anybody who shares thier access DB/app accross a network with other users should know what I'm talking about.
Then try to do it on a non-Windows server and things really go down the crapper fast.
I agree with the first response. Access is very useful for a company of only a few people. "Robust" may be the wrong word, but
"People have got to start running their business on the best available and the most robust."
it seems kind of silly to be telling another successful business how they should be running it.
"People have got to start running their business on the best available and the most robust."
it seems kind of silly to be telling another successful business how they should be running it.
You seem to have mis-read what you quoted. He is not saying he wants to use Access or an Access type program as a database but he wants an Access "type" program as a front-end to MySQL, or to put it another way, he would like a program that would make the building of a database front-end, and building of reports etc, as easy as it is in Access.
You can wait a few more weeks for the official 1.0 release of BIRT (Business Intelligence Reporting Tool) Open Source plug-in for Eclipse or get the pre-release version at:
http://www.eclipse.org/birt/
http://www.eclipse.org/birt/
Re:Reporting like Crystal - BIRT plug-in for Eclip
Posted by: Anonymous Coward on May 25, 2005 01:19 AM
I agree that Access is NOT a database I want to run a company on. We use MySQL. What some folks don't understand is that Access is ALSO an application design tool. You can drag screen widgets and write code behind them. You can create extremely powerful applications in Access... and instead of using the<nobr> <wbr></nobr>.mdb (Jet) backend, you can use SQL-Server.
What we want is a fast, easy, and robust way to create database APPLICATONS via an IDE similar to what Access provides.
Yes, we can cobble together something in wxPython but it takes twice as long and is twice as hard. A lot of what small businesses do is ad-hoc... you need some info NOW. So you write a quick and dirty application to take the input from the user, edit and massage it, and output the report. When done, the application probably gets thrown away (and forgotten about so that when you need it again you re-invent the wheel<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-) )
Try to remember that in a small business everyone wears lots of hats and no one is an expert at any one job. Thus the tools have to be somewhat easy and intuitive to use. That's what Access's environment is... and I miss it at times. (We can run it under Crossover when critical).
Al Canton
Adams-Blake Company, Inc.
What we want is a fast, easy, and robust way to create database APPLICATONS via an IDE similar to what Access provides.
Yes, we can cobble together something in wxPython but it takes twice as long and is twice as hard. A lot of what small businesses do is ad-hoc... you need some info NOW. So you write a quick and dirty application to take the input from the user, edit and massage it, and output the report. When done, the application probably gets thrown away (and forgotten about so that when you need it again you re-invent the wheel<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:-) )
Try to remember that in a small business everyone wears lots of hats and no one is an expert at any one job. Thus the tools have to be somewhat easy and intuitive to use. That's what Access's environment is... and I miss it at times. (We can run it under Crossover when critical).
Al Canton
Adams-Blake Company, Inc.
Did you switch all of the machines to MEPIS, or are the other OS's still in use?
I'm curious about the switch from Mandrake and Slackware. Was it specific problems that prompted the move to MEPIS?
I'm curious about the switch from Mandrake and Slackware. Was it specific problems that prompted the move to MEPIS?
Unless I'd install many citrix boxes, and run citrix clients on the linux desktop, there is no way I could switch to linux. We use Autodesk products, and Autodesk says there is no business reason to write code for linux/unix platform. It would cost a small fortune to run Inventor (3d rendering/modeling program), Ansys(3d statistical modelig program) on citrix with 15 engineers accessing it.
Also, as the Linux desktop becomes more "user friednly" its kernal has become somewhat bloated. I find the later releases of Linux are not quite as efficient as previous distros.
I know I could customize the kernal, etc... but then I'm back in the same position I'm in now:trying to get a bloated OS to preform as advertised. I'm no Linux guru. I have enough trouble getting Novell and Windows to work together. I'm a person who likes what works. It would be nice for the software OEMS to begin to offer the market linux versions of thier software.
We would have a REAL choice in then.
Also, as the Linux desktop becomes more "user friednly" its kernal has become somewhat bloated. I find the later releases of Linux are not quite as efficient as previous distros.
I know I could customize the kernal, etc... but then I'm back in the same position I'm in now:trying to get a bloated OS to preform as advertised. I'm no Linux guru. I have enough trouble getting Novell and Windows to work together. I'm a person who likes what works. It would be nice for the software OEMS to begin to offer the market linux versions of thier software.
We would have a REAL choice in then.
Access
Posted by: Anonymous Coward on May 21, 2005 06:05 PM<a href="http://dba.openoffice.org/miscellaneous/dba20.html" title="openoffice.org">http://dba.openoffice.org/miscellaneous/dba20.htm<nobr>l<wbr></nobr> </a openoffice.org>
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